This post is from April Dykman, a new GRS Staff Writer. April was a typical GRS reader who used the things we talk about to improve her financial situation. Now that she’ll be writing for the site, she wanted to start by sharing some background on her financial history.
In April 2008, I got married. My in-laws graciously gifted my husband, Luis, and me with an adventurous honeymoon in Mexico, complete with scuba diving, climbing Mayan pyramids, and navigating local markets.
Once we unpacked and settled into married life, we knew it was time to get our finances in order.
We had some consumer debt, and then a few months before our wedding my husband’s company was bought out. He was unemployed for two months. We didn’t have an emergency fund, so money saved for the wedding (paid for mostly by my parents, but we wanted to cover some expenses) paid bills instead, and with balances from wedding vendors due, we relied on credit cards.
We were anxious to be debt-free, and we accomplished that, and more, within one year. This is our story of how we used some basic principles to accomplish our goals.
Getting real
The first step on the road to recovery was to gather balance statements for every credit account to our names. That number included:
- Credit cards ($11,200)
- Auto loan for my vehicle ($10,000)
- Motorcycle loan ($6,000)
Grand total: $27,200. Gulp.
I think for many people, this simple first step is scary. Maybe, like me, you piddle around, paying a little extra, cutting back here and there, and you avoid The Scary Number. Maybe you’re terrified because you think you’ll never manage to pay it off. Maybe you’re worried that you’ll have to change your lifestyle, and your friends will think you’re a loser and you’ll turn into a crazy cat lady and when you die no one will find your body for weeks. Whatever the fear, I suspect most people need the wake-up call. I know I did.
Getting a plan
I don’t think it matters whether you pay off the lowest balance first for a psychological boost or pay off debt with the highest interest rate to satiate your logical side. What matters is having a plan. We decided to apply money toward the credit cards first, lowest to highest balance, then the vehicle loans.
I also started to track our spending in a spiral notebook.
Identify big gains
Next, we looked for ways to put big dents in our debt. The motorcycle loan was obvious. My husband rarely rode it because it made me a basket case, and it wasn’t a viable work vehicle. He placed an ad on Craigslist and sold the bike, eliminating a $200 payment.
Then, in May, his truck was totaled. Thankfully, he was okay. We received an $8,000 settlement and contemplated not replacing the vehicle. More than a few people thought having only one car was asking for marital strife, but GRS readers encouraged us to give it a go. We put $4,000 toward the credit cards and saved $4,000 just in case the one-car scenario didn’t work out. Today we still have one car and buying another is a low priority. It was one of the best decisions we’ve ever made.
By July 2008, we were down to $11,600 of debt and had $4,000 in savings.
Identify small gains
After a few months of tracking our pennies, I was able to get an idea of where our money went, and we made smaller changes such as:
- Cutting back on eating out at lunch.
- Downsizing my cell phone plan (I hardly use it).
- Reducing the grocery bill—expensive specialty foods could be cut for now.
In August 2008 we made the final credit card payment.
Using windfalls wisely
In September, I received a $500 bonus and $300 from freelance work. The $800 went toward the car loan. I remember thinking that soon windfalls would go toward saving for the future, not paying for the past.
Establish an emergency fund
Our $4,000 savings was a pseudo emergency fund, but it was really money earmarked for a second vehicle should our one-car plan prove to be a disaster. But life without a second car was going well, and we were anxious to wipe out the last of the debt. We used some of the money in savings to pay off the auto loan, leaving $1,200 to establish an emergency fund. We were officially debt-free.
We immediately reallocated debt-repayment money to our emergency fund. By March 2009, we had saved three months of expenses. We were then free to save for more exciting dreams, such as building our house, travel, and retirement. We opened a targeted account for each goal, and every month we see our savings grow as we pore over floor plans or dream up our next adventure.
Lessons learned
I’m proud of how far we’ve come, but looking back, there are two things I’d have done differently.
- Live (a little). I tend to go at something full-force. After a couple of months of miserly behavior (mostly on my part), we eased up and allotted money for frivolities, creating a bit of life balance in the budget.
- Start with the emergency fund. First, it mitigates future risk. Maybe a tire will blow out. Maybe the A/C will break down when it’s 100 degrees outside. We were simply lucky that neither happened. Second, there’s a psychological component. Dan and Chip Heath, authors of Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die, make a case for the whisker goal, “a target that [is] a hairsbreadth away from the status quo.” While “stretch” goals (pay off $27,000 of debt) are great if you feel empowered, whisker goals (save $1000) are better if you feel overwhelmed. They can get you past the fear that holds you back.
It wasn’t easy. While we had the benefit of a middle-class income and the luck to have no major setbacks, we also made big lifestyle changes. We were highly motivated from the day we calculated our total debt.
I think taking that first step was key for us, but what about you? If you’ve paid off debt or are currently doing so, what do you think are the most important actions you’ve taken to become debt-free?
J.D.’s note: EVERYONE wants to skip the emergency fund. I did too. We listen to people on the other side say “start with the emergency fund” and we think “meh — why do I need to?” Well, now that I’m on the other side, I wish I’d started with the emergency fund too!
This article is about Debt, Real-Life Friday, 4th September 2009 (by April)

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September 4th, 2009 at 5:13 am
Welcome, April. It’s good to hear your inspiring story. You are a person of real determination — obvious you will succeed in whatever you put your mind to. Best of luck in the one-car scenario. We are hoping to do that, too, when I switch to a new job within walking distance of home.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:18 am
Thank you for not giving a blanket endorsement for debt snowballing. Some people really do get more out of knowing their money is being put to good use with the highest interest debt first.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:26 am
I have about $18,500 worth of debt and with a 26K a year income, discipline is vital. Thats the one trait I have learned even before paying down debt due to doing my workout routine among other things - but I feel it is the most important first thing to learn before achieving long term goals.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:28 am
I 100% agree with you on being a 1 car household. Cars are the most expensive thing the average person buys that loses value. If you value your finances you should do everything you can to keep transportation costs to a minimum.
-Gen Y Investor
September 4th, 2009 at 5:35 am
The emergency fund is huge. I haven’t had one for long but the psychological boost has made me much more aware of where my money goes. I still have a lot of debt to pay off and may have to use a good chunk of my emergency fund for closing costs. If I do use it for closing costs, the income from renting out the spare bedroom should allow me to replace it in less than 3 months. Thanks for reinforcing a lesson I still need to make more concrete in my life.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:37 am
Question on April’s statement and J.D.’s note about the emergency fund: Why?
-Had an emergency and needed it?
-Think it’s good to balance debt reduction with acquiring a savings habit?
-Just feels like I should have done it/wish I could say that I did it?
And are you saying you wish you had built an emergency fund of X months worth of expenses before/while you were paying off debt or just SOMETHING in savings for an emergency?
Curious.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:41 am
Great post. Look forward to reading many more by April
September 4th, 2009 at 5:57 am
Thanks for sharing, April. I thought that the notes about skipping the emergency fund and going straight to the debt reduction were interesting.
Once on the radio, I heard Dave Ramsey get a question about that. He said that early on when he started financial counseling, the first step was the debt snowball. But with no credit cards and no savings, there was no safety net for anything. That’s when he knew he had to revise his plan.
2 important thoughts:
1> This journey isn’t just about math - it’s about life. It’s about behavior and people.
2> There’s a reason Dave Ramsey refers to the Baby Steps as “a proven plan” (my emphasis). It helps to understand why they are what they are, but really, after developing and teaching this for 20+ yrs, he might just know what he’s talking about.
cheers, and best wishes on your journey!
September 4th, 2009 at 6:01 am
Great story. We had $7,000 on a car loan when we got married and paid it off in 6 months, then moved to a new state and bought a house 4 months later. We’ve had to put on a new roof and put in a new furnace, but we still have an emergency fund and we are working to get it much larger.
I work from home and my wife works in walking distance, but we still have two cars. One car usually just sits there and only has insurance for 7500 miles a year. The multi-car discount means it only costs us about $20 a month to keep it. I’ve been tempted to sell it, but we’ve been able to let a friend use it when they were in need and having it in case our other car isn’t working makes me feel good.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Welcome, April!
I, too, tried to tackle debt first without an emergency fund and every little thing that came up, forced me deeper into debt — just because I didn’t have a cash reserve to draw from.
Creating an emergency fund was the best thing I ever did. Once it was in place, I could easily cover the $200 car repair, or whatever else it was, without added to my credit card debt and without taking away from the amount I was paying against my debt.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Really loved the tone of this post. Looking forward to more from April. And well done for getting rid of your debt so efficiently! On the emergency fund front - I’ve been in the position of really needing mine.
Got stuck on the wrong side of the atlantic with a bankrupt airline, travel insurance (all three of them!) said “you’re not covered for airline failure” and the only flights home were business class at $3800 per person one way! No other tickets for over a week, which would have cost us the difference to the economy tickets in accomodation/food etc, and we had to be back at work…
Was able to take a deep breath, think “the emergency fund will cover this” and buy the tickets (oh, but it hurt). And I did get it all back in the end, after 6 months of fighting. But without the fund, I would have been in a hole.
Lest you think “well, you must be fairly well off to be taking transatlantic flights”, I’m a student, and I was at an academic conference, funded by scholarship money. Couldn’t have afforded it by myself.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Love this post!
Hubby and I are in the process of paying off credit card debt, and to be honest, we COULD go a little faster. But, it’s important to us to have an emergency fund built up as well, for several reasons:
A. Peace of mind for both of us. Otherwise we would both be worried and miserable.
B. In these economic times, you never know what will happen as far as jobs go. If one of us were to get downsized, we don’t want to be completely crunched, especially while we’re paying off debt.
C. Just this week our car (yes we only have one, we sold the other one) needed some unexpected repairs, to the tune of $600. If we hadn’t had the emergency fund, that would have either gone on credit cards OR we just wouldn’t have been able to make as big of a credit card payment. As it stands now, we barely felt it at all.
We hope to have the first of our credit cards paid off by March 2010, and from there we’ll snowball our payments to everything else.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:28 am
I’m 7 semi-monthly payments from being mortgage-free and the ability to not care what other people think about my minimalist lifestyle (I don’t think I’m a minimalist; I just don’t see the appeal of hitting the mall every lunch hour) or to tune them out when they tell me I’m not normal.
Meh. Who wants to be normal?
As for the emergency fund, it provides peace of mind. When I had to gut it to help out the parental units, I felt like I was living life on the edge–an edge where one side was made up of spiky rock formations–until I replenished it.
September 4th, 2009 at 6:28 am
I think this is a great post. It’s very inspiring to hear other people’s tale of triumph when it comes to their finances. I’m debt free besides a mortgage. I’ve never had credit card debt so I feel good about that. However my sister is in a place where this kind of inspiring story may help her to realize she can turn things around, be debt free and live the best life she deserves! I will be passing this along to her. Thanks April!
September 4th, 2009 at 6:30 am
I’m not sure I understand the logic of establishing an emergency fund before paying off credit card debt. Is it purely psychological?
Eg. 10k cc debt.
savings rate = 5k per year
emergency fund starts at zero.
So at the end of year 1 (simplified math) we’ll either have a 5k emergency fund, and start paying off a 11k cc debt, or have 5.75k cc debt, and have no emergency fund. without the emergency fund, net worth is higher. if a 5k medical emergency comes along, what is wrong with then charging it to your cc? you still end up with a better position 10.75k cc debt, no EF, instead of 11k/0…
September 4th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Howdy April - Thanks for sharing your debt story. Do you mind also sharing the other side of the equation, your income as well?
By sharing your income, you help give us perspective on how big $27,000 in debt really is. Otherwise, it’s kind of just a number.
At Financial Samurai, we have a 1/10th rule where the vehicle purchase price we buy equals no more than 1/10th our yearly gross income. Hence, with $16,000 of auto loans, we come up with at least $160,000 in gross income for your two. Do you mind letting us know whether that’s in the ball park?
I’ll probably write about a guide is for max revolving credit card debt too at some point. However, I just don’t understand credit card revolving debt b/c it is so expensive and as a result, I’ve never carried a balance.
Best
September 4th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Re: the emergency fund. We’ve been both paying down debt and accumulating an emergency fund at the same time. If we focused one vs the other I suppose we could do either faster, but I feel good about attacking both.
Can somebody explain why Ramsey advocates for doing one at a time? Or is it more just about making sure that you’re giving yourself an emergency fund?
September 4th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Great to hear your story.
And I agree with comment #2 - it’s nice to see someone else that didn’t do a blanket debt snowball.
I think that’s the biggest issue I have with Ramsey. I understand that some people need the psychological motivation of paying off the smallest debt first, but not everyone. It’s a much bigger motivator to me knowing that I’m paying it off faster, and with less interest, by tackling the high-interest rates first. (I’ve heard that called Debt Avalanche at one point?)
September 4th, 2009 at 7:11 am
My husband and I are paying off debt and we initially skipped the emergency fund too. Finally, 2 months ago, we dicided we probably needed one, just in case…
Within 2 months we built a $ 1,700.00 emergency fund and sure enough… last week we had an emergency worht $ 1,100.00. I’m realy happy we decided just in time to start saving towards emergencies!
We’ll be building up the fund straight away!
September 4th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Oh wow… there are MULTIPLE new staff writers… I thought there was only going to be one.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:32 am
I read Dave Ramsey’s book and one thing that struck me was that when you have no emergency fund, every emergency is something that needs to be thought through and the money found.
He appreciated the fact that when he had an emergency fund, he didn’t have to THINK about something. If he needed to pay a repairman $400, he merely wrote the check and didn’t THINK about it.
I don’t have an emergency fund (even the first baby one of $1000 that Dave recommends) and if something happened to my paid-off car, I’d be stressed out and frantically trying to find the fund somewhere.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:01 am
My husband and I tackled both the emergency fund and debt at the same time. We’re consumer debt free now and have an EF in place. It feels great! I highly recommend having a fund in place. Even a small one of $500 will help when a budget is tight and things come up because they always do and then what? Use a credit card again? No thanks!
@ Ann - congrats on being nearly mortgage free! We don’t want to be normal either lol
Great post April
September 4th, 2009 at 8:19 am
I think it is so important to tackle the emergency fund either first or jointly with the debt. We had a small emergency fund last year that we were building up before trying to seriously tackle our consumer debt- a good thing, too, because a few months after we started saving my husband got laid off and was out of work for 3 months. That event wiped out our small emergency savings and now that he has a job again we’re starting from scratch, but I am so, so grateful I didn’t use that money to pay off some of our debt because we would have been in a worse situation now.
I do think though the decision on how much to use for savings vs debt can take several factors into account, though- since my husband’s layoff, I’ve switched jobs to a much more stable one and he got a great new job, so while we’re still building our new emergency fund, we’re also comfortable using some of our extra funds to pay down some debt at the same time because our employment situation is so much better than it was last year at our old jobs. Slower progress on both fronts, but it helps with peace of mind, at least
September 4th, 2009 at 8:24 am
lx- I don’t think it is about this growth vs. that reduction. It is about having a resource to pay for “emergencies” rather than putting those costs right back on top of the cc debt you are trying to eliminate. The E-fund provides a cushion that allows you to develop and stick with a debt elimination plan with specific goals and practices.
Luckily while we were paying off debt we didn’t have any emergencies come up. Our cc bills were fairly small, most of our debt was school loans. We just now got the emergency fund up and running (new kid and new house so lots of opportunity for emergencies) and while it is an emergency fund and about half simple savings half index funds- it is also a long term savings fund for another house or the kid’s college fund, etc.
For me, I’ve found the more savings I have the more I want to save and the easier it is because I really see that I am going somewhere and it is working. When I’ve had nothing, I would spend everything (who cares right?).
September 4th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I’ll respond directly to April’s question: “If you’ve paid off debt or are currently doing so, what do you think are the most important actions you’ve taken to become debt-free?”
The BIGGEST step for me was to admit that I was in debt. Much like an alcoholic, the first (and biggest) step to recovery is admitting the truth.
I’ve known that I was in debt for a while, but not until April 2008 did I admit that debt was a problem and that I needed to fix it.
Once I stepped over that hurdle, I set up a quasi-budget (I track it, but I DON’T watch it like a hawk) and set up a debt reduction plan. Now, about 1.5 years later, I only have student loans and a mortgage. If all goes well, the student loans will be done in another 1.5 years.
The mortgage will obviously take longer, but with my payment schedule, I can pay down a 30-year mortgage in roughly 17 years.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:29 am
April, I think you’re right on the mark that even those of us engaged in aggressively paying down debt probably need a little bit of “play money” that we can spend on little frivolities without guilt. I allocate part of the money from my second job for this.
About the emergency fund: you guys, I listened to all of you. I started veeeeeeery slowly (I’m talking $10/mo, here) putting money away in a high-interest savings account, adding extra when I could, but focusing on paying down debt. And then, last month, when my car got hit while it was parked and I had to shell out my $500 deductible, *nothing bad happened.* I did not stress! I just wrote a check!
In summary: you are so right, and I am really, really, really glad I listened to y’all
September 4th, 2009 at 8:31 am
“…what do you think are the most important actions you’ve taken to become debt-free?” My lowest point was $10,000 in student loan debt plus $700 in credit card debt (I had maxed out my credit card). My most important actions were:
1) Lived very frugally my senior year so I wouldn’t have to take one of the loans in my financial aid package.
2) Lived with my parents (for free) while job hunting.
3) Stayed employed as much as possible–never quit one job without having another lined up.
4) Lived without a car for 4 years – for a while, every time I would get some money saved up I would have to spend it all on car repairs. Finally I decided I wanted to do more with my savings than just have a car. So I sold my car, paid off all my debt, and then paid cash for a used car in a reliable brand.
5) Had a housemate.
I paid off my five debts in order of interest rate—first my credit card debt, then my student loan with the highest interest rate, etc. (I got offers to consolidate all my student loans into one loan, but the new interest rate was always the highest of my four interest rates, so I never consolidated.) I started by paying $50 extra and kept making the same total payments toward debt as each thing was paid off. Any extra money and windfalls went into savings. I just had one pool of savings back then which I used for both fun and emergencies.
I probably shouldn’t have paid off my lowest-rate student loans early because I could have earned more investing, but I did. I also wish I would have taken that extra loan student loan I rejected and invested it in a CD so I could have paid back that (or a higher-interest) loan right away and had money left over.
I went a couple of years without health insurance, working a bunch of part-time jobs. So it was scary times. I also never had a very good income back then; in fact, I still have an awfully mediocre income for someone of my education level and age, but I only have to work 40 hours a week and that makes me happy.
RB, I bet most people don’t follow your 1/10 rule. Even now that I’m feeling pretty rich, I could only buy a $4,200 car under your scheme. I do expect to spend $3000 - $5000 for my next car, but I spend way less on cars than anyone else I know.
September 4th, 2009 at 9:24 am
April’s story is one that is very similar to my own. Coming off of a wedding and grad school, my household is full of worries and fears about money. I am trying to slowly work my way out of our funk and some of the steps that April took are one’s that we are considering.
It’s encouraging to hear how quickly April turned her finances around.
Thanks
September 4th, 2009 at 9:43 am
The Big Scary Number — Yup, I’m avoiding that for a bit… For me, it’s the total amount of student loans that I have. Ugh. I know I can look it up now, but I think it’s only going to make me more depressed since I’m still just adding to the pile at this point…
September 4th, 2009 at 10:08 am
For those who wonder why an emergency fund is needed — what is your plan for when something unexpected arises? If it’s to pay for the emergency with a credit card, keep in mind that you will then be paying high interest on that money — AND that banks are closing credit cards left and right these days. What if they close your credit card on October 1 and on October 3 your car breaks down? That kind of thing has happened. Money in the bank means you never have to go through that panic.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:09 am
That’s a terrific story April and very inspiring. I totally agree with you and Generation Y Investor on the one-car family thing. My husband and I also share one vehicle and when we need to go in different directions, one of use will use a bicycle (that one of us is usually me, but I love biking).
Keep up the great work!
September 4th, 2009 at 11:39 am
The one thing that the hubby and I are doing differently than what Dave Ramsey advises is we’re handling our debt snowball a little differently. Starting out, we had two credit cards with massive debt (each pushing 30k) plus my school loans (around 7k, but on a fixed payment plan), our car debt, and a couple of balances on furniture we had financed (interest-free for the next two years).
Instead of starting with the smaller furniture and school loans, we started with the lesser of the two credit cards. Because we both see the credit cards as being huge financial obstacles that we have to hurdle, with large minimum payments, we felt like we would be making more headway by paying one of them off first. It might be 6 one way and a half-dozen another, but for us, seeing the balance on that card going down is a HUGE motivator.
We’re on track to get the credit card paid off in about 6-8 months, then we’ll move those allocated funds over to tackle the furniture, car, and school debt before moving on to the last and biggest credit card.
September 4th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I’m wondering what you think about the order of paying things off when one has a LOT of debt. Due to 2 bachelors and a Masters degree (between me and my wife), we have $90K in student loans, but no other debt (except the house). Would you suggest sticking with a small emergency fund until the entire thing is paid off? What about retirement investing? It doesnt seem prudent to stop investing for retirement for the next 10 years while I pay down debt.
I’m 27, w/ 10K in retirement accts, 75000 income (my wife doesnt work outside the home).
Theoretically, Dave Ramsey would tell me to stop investing, stop doing everything until its paid off, but that doesnt seem smart. What do you think?
-Brent
September 4th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Thanks April and welcome. Three cheers for the one-car family. We have only one car and I bike or use transit most of the time. For the rare times we need 2 cars I have a zipcar membership. Works great!
I’m debt free except for the mortgage and a ridiculously cheap student loan. I’m working on the emergency fund, but something always comes up and cleans it out. I have yet to build up to even one month’s worth of expenses. It’s frustrating, but still better than where I was, having to put everything on the credit card. Not having hubby on board doesn’t help - at least we have separate accounts. I’m working on it.
September 4th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I really like the emphasis on having a plan. We most closely identify with the Dave Ramsey one, but have deviated from it in few key ways.
1) We have a larger emergency fund than he advises. We don’t feel comfortable with only $1K in the bank — we have a couple kids and live in a part of the country that’s expensive to live in, so $1K can disappear pretty quickly. We selected $5K as our baseline, and this has worked out pretty well for us. We have had one emergency that required us to write a check for $1K. We also have family in areas of the country that would require a plane flight to get to should something occur, as well.
2) We already have a house. Bought during the top of the housing market. With a 80/15/5 loan. At least they are both at a decent 30 year fixed rate :). We know it’s not the “Ramsey approved” 15 year fixed / 20% down payment mortgage, but hindsight is 20/20. Selling the house would likely save us a couple of hundred a month, anyway — and even that’s debatable since the mortgage interest deductible actually allows us quite a tax shelter. Plus the realtor would likely get paid $20K. And we can’t sell it for what we paid for it. At least it’s a nice house!
3) We bought term life insurance and disability insurance. We have two children and wanted to be sure they were well taken care of in case something bad happened to us. This takes away money from our debt payments, but we think it’s worth having this set up. We also spent money to get a will and other documents written up to administer the money should something happen.
All that said, I think that talking about finances, putting together a monthly budget and working on shared goals is definitely something that strengthens a marriage. When you must talk about money once a month, it’s very easy to introduce topics that might be confrontational or worrisome — and in many marriages, not talking about money leads to many, many problems.
Having a plan has let us endure my wife’s recent layoff with far less drama than we would have been through a year ago. Since we have paid off a lot of debt and accustomed ourselves to a lifestyle lived below our means already, it’s really not a big deal and we’ll get through it.
It’s also a sign of how far we’ve come in a year when I hear my co-workers talking about their money troubles, or the lifestyles they lead that are burning towards money troubles. I generally keep my mouth shut, knowing that we are building a foundation that will help us weather tough times as well as prosper in the good ones. Our house may not be as nice, our cars not so new, we may not have the latest electronic gadgets and we don’t go to Disney every year. The thing is, I’ve realized that self-confidence and security are far more valuable than any gadget or trip.
We’ve found the Dave Ramsey podcast to be a good motivator for us, especially the “Debt Free Friday” ones. Hearing about how other people have worked the plan to become debt free is very inspirational for us. Also, the regular shows provide a lot of examples for people like us who come into working the plan in a way that’s not exactly like the book explains.
September 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Today is officially the first day of the rest of my financial life!
My husband and I were self employed for 10 years.
We sold our business just as the economy was tanking.
We have both worked our entire lives (we’re 46)
And neither one of us could find employment for nearly two years.
Never in my wildest imagination would I have believed we would not only NOT have jobs, but good jobs. But it happened to us.
Well he started his new great job in June and I just received a very nice job offer today!! I am walking on clouds, even though we have debt.
I KNOW that we will eliminate it ASAP and build our savings and 401 back up.
I have a detailed plan, including life insurance, disability, etc.
I will never again be in the situation we just came out of. I have made specific plans to be sure that’s the case.
My plan is to have an emergency fund of $25,000 within one year.
Oh, and once I start my job I am going to volunteer at the local job bank to help out others who are in such a predicament!
September 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Congratulations, you guys really moved quickly and paid your debt off fast.
I like your method of having only one vehicle. I bet that more couples could get by on one vehicle than they think.
September 4th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#35 Jason
I don’t think that buying term/disability insurance and setting up a will are outside of Dave Ramsey’s “baby steps” at all. In fact, he dedicates an entire session of Financial Peace University to how important it is to do both of these -especially when you have kids.
Congrats on your financial progress!
September 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
While agreeing that having an emergency fund is essential, when I first started tackling debt I was so terrible with money that the money wasn’t safe if I could get at it. Until I reached the point where money could be left in an account, it was a matter of throwing any money at the debt in order to have the money ‘gone’. I dealt with emergencies the same way I always did - with panic and credit - but I could see my debts steadily dwindling.
It took a long time and constant improvements to change the way I think about and deal with money, but I still remember when my money handling skills were so lacking that I had to work up to such common sense advice as ‘have an emergency fund’.
September 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Lovely wedding photo! My wedding is scheduled for October and we plan on having an outdoor wedding as well. Fingers are crossed for great weather!
September 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
JD - As the editor in chief, anyway you can get April to respond to our questions?
It would be much more interesting, and dynamic this way. My main inquiry is her income level during the time they had 27K in debt and whether she worked on any ratios to manage her debt.
After all, in finance, it’s all about the Debt / Equity ratio!
RB
September 4th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Taking the first step is the hardest..getting a plan, to me, is a bonus. I just dove right in, and actually, by the time I decided that I needed a plan, I was almost out of debt.
Good story though!
September 4th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
@33 Brent,
Student loans are something I struggle with also. Here’s what I do, which may or may not work for you. I got this plan from a number of financial books, and from talks with my accountant and Bogleheads forum. I’d appreciate any feedback as well.
Since I assume you have no high interest debt (credit cards), try this order:
1. Start an emergency fund and gradually increase it 6 months. Others suggest more or less. You don’t have to “stop” 401k contributions while you’re doing this.
2. Contribute up to maximum employer match for 401k.
3. Max out Roth IRA.
Now determine your financial goals. What are your major purchases (house, business, vacation, retirement)? When will you need the money? For money you need in 2 years, keep in CDs or Money Market. For 3-7 years, use bonds. For 7+ years, use stocks (i.e. index funds).
At this point, determine your actual rate of return for each investment (your loans are negative investments).
If married filing jointly you can claim $2,500 of student loan interest for AGI under $145,000. Check both your 1098 forms for last year to see what you paid in interest. You likely get the whole deduction.
I assume stocks at 9% pre-tax, 7% post-tax. Bonds at 5% pre-tax, 4% post-tax.
Depending on your real student loan interest, that will fit in somewhere here:
3. Max out 401k.
4. Invest in taxable account.
With my highest student loan at a real rate of 3.5%, I make the minimum payments. I automate all of my investments, and if there’s still money left over at the end of the month, or if I get a windfall, I’ll put some extra towards the highest loan. Low interest or not, debt is an emotional burden.
There’s a lot of other considerations too, so read some financial books and consider a fee-based financial planner before implementing your plan.
Good Luck.
-Joe
September 5th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Thanks for the wonderful story!
I think that crucial thing is that you and your husband agreed on doing the savings and establishing the emergency funds.
But what to do if you are the only one with such intention??? My wife is a shopaholic and does not care about debts. Every time I tried to do something about it we end up fighting and not speaking for a few days.
Has somebody resolved such situation?
September 5th, 2009 at 2:20 am
the two most important actions i’ve taken have been to
1. keep separate bank accounts for different purposes (especially separating by debit card account from my account to which my salary comes)
2. track my expenses. this has made me concious about my spending.
September 5th, 2009 at 4:50 am
@41- I don’t really have the need to see how much she made- it is about the process to me.
My experience of debt is my brothers- but they are the kings. One makes a lot (46), the other makes hardly anything(57). Both struggle to pay the bills and borrow from our mom (79) when they have run out of money and have taxes to pay. The sisters (49,52,55) watch and made sure they are debt free. The example of what happens is what encourages us to stay debt free.
Mom encourages the debtors….
Three out of the four sister’s children (30,26, 25, 25) also are debt free. One lives for his uncle’s lifestyle- live for today and hope the creditors don’t come too close!
It is interesting how the cycle continues.
September 5th, 2009 at 5:30 am
#43 Joruva,
Thanks for the plan. So you’re saying that you just put everything in order of interest rate/expected return and plug in money accordingly?
So you’re just resigning yourself to paying on your student loans for 20 years? I’d like to make extra payments, but I hate the idea of decreasing my retirement investments.
I also have the monthly cash flow to consider. As all of my student loans come out of forbearance, monthly cashflow is going to get tight. I’d like to find a way to pay off some of the loans so that my monthly payment is less.
-Brent
September 5th, 2009 at 7:04 am
We worked a similar post marriage, merger of finances plan. We added up our debt which totaled $55,500 (half of which was Mr. Sam’s MBA student loans) and faced the music.
We went with the Dave Ramsey debt snowball which worked for us as we got to pay off small debts quick, quick, quick. We tracked our finances using Quicken which helped us figure out where our money was going and helped us come up with a spending plan (our form of a budget) and we had the $55,500 paid off in just over a year.
We did start with a small emergency fund ($1,000) and we raided it twice during the debt snowball (once for A/C repair and once for car repair).
We now have a $20,000 e/r fund and we are working on increasing that fund.
In response to all the comments about Dave Ramsey’s baby steps and modifications, I think having a plan and working that plan is most important. While we followed Ramsey’s debt snowball plan, we continued to save for retirement at the same time. I think you have to look at your circumstances and figure out what is going to work best for you. For the baby emergency fund he often advises a larger baby e/r fund if you have children. And as to the snowball, Mr. Sam wanted to pay of highest interest first but I wanted to knock out a bunch of small debts first and since I was doing the financial work we went with the smallest to largest plan, but if it makes more sense to you to do it the other way, just do it.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Using half the insurance settlement on the truck to build an emergency fund was a great idea. Even if it does cause some strife, it isn’t a permanent decision. At some point in the not to distant future, when your finances are stronger you can buy a second car, maybe a second hand one to avoid another debt.
Very inspiring post!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Brent (33, 45),
I basically agree with what Joruva wrote.
I think in your situation it’s important to realize that you’re on a good track and you’re not going to make a wrong decision here. You’re considering all the right things.
I would probably need to know more of your specific details to offer any real advice. The big factor is the details of your mortgage. Also, are you happy living in that house for the next 20 years or so (size, schools)? Will your wife maybe take on part or full time employment when the children are older? Do you want to try to save for your children’s education, or would you rather eliminate all debt (including the mortgage, even) before they’re in college, or both? Do you expect big increases in your income?
I understand if you don’t want to share any of this. I like giving advice, but it’s only as competent as the amount of information I have going into it. And you’re doing fine without it.
–ryan
September 5th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Brent:
Joe already said what I was going to say. Am in same situation as you except 28 with $180K of debt from med school.
I max out the Roth every year because it would be stupid not to when my salary is going to increase and I won’t be able to contribute to a Roth anymore in the future. Since I invested in emerging markets this year, so far I’ve made about 25% on my investment - a lot more than I’d gain by paying on my loans! But honestly it’s not just a rate numbers game. Even though my subsidized loans are even less than Joe’s at 1.88% for one piece of them right now, I still want to get everything paid off even though rate of inflation is going to make that ‘illogical’…. I just don’t want to think about this debt anymore, I refuse to be still paying it off 30 years from now. But it’s up to you depending on your loan interest rates and perspective on this.
I throw all my extra money at the piece of my loans (currently $29K) that is unsubsidized 6.8% interest rate, and I have been doing it for two years now and have really seen the difference in the amount of interest I accumulate per month. At the beginning it was about $12.50 in interest every DAY just on that piece of the loan. Now it’s a lot less than that! So when my loans come out of deferment next year it will be a significantly smaller monthly payment. So I say just put anything you can towards paying it (while still maxing your Roth on an automatic investment plan or something), and be happy with ‘whisker goals’ - like for me, I just celebrated getting the high interest piece of debt down under $80K. yay!
September 5th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I never had a debt problem BUT I never built much of a financial cushion either until I was in my late 30’s. I worked at low wage jobs, had a few hundred or a thousand dollars as back-up, a single credit card that I paid off most months, and just didn’t spend more than I had. In my mid-thirties I realized that I had goals (sending a child to college, retiring some day) and started educating myself about money, saving, and looking for better paying jobs.
I’m curious. Given a job loss, I would have scaled back the wedding rather than go into debt. Did you consider that? I don’t mean this as a criticism. You are way ahead of where I was at your age but I’m interested in the psychology of the choice.
September 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
@Kevin–The thing of it is that it didn’t cause any strife at all! Since getting married, I’ve found that most people give bad marriage advice. Supposedly, we would fight our entire first year of marriage. We’d argue over having one car. We should be prepared to argue while building a house. But none of that has been the case. We’re on the same team. I think sometimes it’s good to ignore advice.
@Chris–Very good point. The problem was that we were two months away from the wedding and deposits were paid and contracts signed. Guests were already invited, and the head count accounts for a large amount of the expenses. I’m not saying it would have been impossible, but at that point, we were just overwhelmed. It was sort of like “let’s just get through all of this and buckle down afterward.”
September 6th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Brent,
As the others pointed out there are a lot of unknowns with your situation. I will add that if you have several loans at various interest rates, it may make sense to pay off one or several loans if you are worried about cash flow each month (particularly if you have a few loans with a high interest rate). If your loans are with SallieMae, sign up for automatic debit for the 0.25% rate reduction, and after 3 years of on-time payments they’ll take off another 1%. Unfortunately this does not reduce your monthly payments.
For the most part it’s a numbers game, but paying down the loans is a guaranteed return while stocks and bonds can lose value. I’m betting that over the long haul my investments will return 6%+ after taxes so for me it’s worth the risk to invest in a taxable account. If my loans were 4 or 5%+ after the tax deduction I would consider paying them off before investing in a taxable account.
I still put a little extra money towards the higher interest loans when I get unexpected cash, but unless I get a huge windfall I’ll probably continue make the minimum payments on the loans that are less than 2%.
-Joe
September 6th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Thanks April! It’s great to see you writing here, and I loved your story. We’re about half-way through the credit-card payoff in our own debt-slog, and this was the first month since we started in January that I’ve put money aside for frivolities. It felt good, but I think it may be awhile before either of us is brave enough to spend any of that cash.
I’ve gone slowly with the emergency fund, and reading this essay inspired me to step it up.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Weddings are a big killer. I had a friend who called off his $80,000 wedding two weeks beforehand, and it therefore cost the couple $40,000.
The best wedding I ever attended was a 16 person wedding on a public beach in Hawaii. Lasted 45 minutes with pictures, and cost about $750 bucks including the lunch reception.
April, looking forward to hearing more of your stories.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:20 am
fantastic story and great article. Stopping by from Northern Cheapskate
September 6th, 2009 at 10:27 am
April D: “By July 2008, we were down to $11,600 of debt and had $4,000 in savings. . .”
“In August 2008 we made the final credit card payment.”
———
Do I undertand this correctly: You paid off $11,600 of debt in one month, between July 2008 and August 2008?
September 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
We’ve been doing the one car thing too but we’re actually considering buying a used van from my hubby’s work to make life easier over the next year or two (we share a house with one of our grown kids and her family and juggle 4 adults going to work, getting 3 kids to 2 different schools, etc. with only one car for each family).
As for Financial Samurai, I’ve never done anything like his 1/10th rule for buying a car! In fact, I’ve never heard of it. Do you suppose many execs earning $160,000 would actually buy a $16,000 car?
When I was a single parent with 3 school age kids I was making $26,000/year and bought a car that cost that much! It wasn’t a problem to pay it off. By his rule, I’d have had to drive 3 kids around in a $2,600 beater. Like I’d been doing before I bought a really nice car (one which later saved my life and that of my kids and mother when we were in a major car accident where we’d likely have died in a smaller car).
September 6th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Thanks for this nice article. I had to laugh about the “live (a little)” thing! Its hard to spend money for fun when you just started to think about every cent.
Looking forward to read more articles!
September 6th, 2009 at 11:22 am
“Do you suppose many execs earning $160,000 would actually buy a $16,000 car?”
That’s about what I make, and yes, if I was going to treat myself, I would buy a new Honda Fit for about that much. But I’ll probably just pick up a used one, and not for awhile yet, since my current car is running great.
When you’re only making $26k it’s a tough “rule” to follow, but the idea is laudable, I think.
Back when I was in the Navy, the parking lots were arranged with many reserved spaces according to a range of ranks (i.e. E-6 and below, E-7 and above, O-5 and above, Flag Officer, etc.) In the military it was no secret how much a person’s income was, and yet there was a definite inverse relationship between the “rank” of the parking area and the value of the cars occupying it. Lexuses (Lexi?), BMW’s, Jaguars, and fancy SUV’s filled the spaces of the most junior personnel. The junior and mid-level officers favored Accords and Saturns, and the admiral drove the family’s 15 year old rusty van.
There are many military people who read this blog, and I am sure that many could confirm this story–as a general trend, not a rule without exception.
September 6th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
@58 Jean:
No, the $11K total debt at that point includes more than just the credit card debt, it includes some car and/or motorcycle debt that they had.
September 6th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Hi Shevy,
Yes, absolutely. If you are making $160,000, you should limit your car purchase price to $16,000. You don’t have to buy a new car. You can buy a perfectly safe, 5 year old car for that price with 50-60,000 miles.
I STRONGLY believe that cars are the #1 personal finance killer for those under 30 years old. For some odd reason, people actually borrow expensive money to buy a depreciating asset when they don’t have money. How does that make sense?
The rich use this rule all the time. If you are an executive in management consulting like McKinsey, BCG, or Bain, you are probably making $2-5 million a year. The cars I see them drive around Honda Accords, BMW 5 series, 7 series, and SUVs. The price range is $25-90,000… or actually only 1/20th to 1/100th of their income. Not many are buying $200,000-$500,000 cars.
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to try and stick to this rule. Oh yeah, and you probably haven’t heard of the rule b/c it’s a Financial Samurai rule, and we haven’t been around very long. But hopefully, the rule will spread all over in time
September 6th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Re: Ann (13) I cringed when I read that you risked your own security to help out your “parental units” -glad you have an emergency fund again! As the mother of five (four are adults), I often find myself struggling with feeling selfish whenever I have “extra” money. Not that my kids expect handouts -they don’t, but I still feel guilty!
I do have a question for everyone - I am a Master’s level mental health professional feeling stuck with the pack when it comes to earning power. I can’t seem to think outside the box as to changing things. Any ideas?
September 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with starting with an emergency fund. It’s a lot easier to look forward and save when you aren’t constantly putting out fires and digging yourself out of holes created simply because you didn’t have a safety net when old Murphy came around. And he always does…when you least expect him.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I went about things backwards I guess. I had already faced The Big Number and started keeping a notebook to keep track of bills and expenses before I heard about Dave Ramsey. I mostly thought I would be putting the cart before the horse if I read too much financial advice before I got a handle on the easiest way to do it for myself. Sure enough, just keeping expenses in Wordpad works the best.
I paid things off before I started the emergency fund since I balanced the 5%< interest I would be paid against the 18 - 23% I was paying. Once I had a system and I put it on automatic, things fell into place and the debt kept shrinking. I still had to deal with emergencies with my same old feelings of doom and despair as I used the plastic. But one the debt was paid I knew this time would be different. I didn’t daydream about the things I would buy on the day I had the credit cards paid off. I was determined to change and to save up for things and not charge them. I’ve fallen down a little but I get back on track faster now.
I have to say even a small emergency fund makes me feel calmer about the future. My fund may be different because I am certain the income will keep coming in but I have to be ready for something like replacing a water pump or hot water heater. Those kinds of things always seem to happen to me.
September 6th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@Idea - I’ve been there with an ex and unfortunately that’s where about half of my $50k debt came from. In your situation I suggest giving her spending money, weekly, and when it’s gone, it’s gone. If she won’t go for that, then you might have to disentangle your accounts and pay for things separately. It sounds harsh but she is risking your financial future as well as her own. Your wife might not like to have the talk–it can be really scary for someone not good with money — but it needs to be done. My ex saw me as his cash cow. If your wife doesn’t want to think about money then she’s pretty much treating you the same. Please for your own sake don’t let it continue.
September 7th, 2009 at 12:05 am
Thank you @April and @Not My Mother for your comments. You enforced the idea that I thought of myself.
Yesterday I proposed my wife to create a budget for her spending and surprisingly she agreed. I even created a contract that regulates all issues about her future spending and she signed it
Thanks again
September 7th, 2009 at 6:14 am
I’ve never carried debt except for my mortgage … but the mortgage feels like an insurmountable burden because it’s almost three times my annual GROSS salary. Screw the tax deduction … I feel like I am throwing money away every month because I rushed into financing the property instead of saving up for it. Lesson learned! Gotta play by the numbers, not emotions. But what can I do about it now that I realize how much it is actually costing me? Additional principal is automatically included with every monthly payment. This detracts from my other savings goals but psychologically it is starting to make me feel better to see a more significant drop in the mortgage balance after each payment is applied. I still have that feeling like it will never get there though. Even if I paid an extra thousand per month, it would still take me over five years to completely wipe out this debt. Ouch.
September 7th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Nice post. Good tips.
As you pointed out the first step is the hardest– knowing where you stand.
September 7th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Some of the most important steps I have taken:
1) Looked at my income and expenses and figured out what kind of life I could really afford to live at the time.
2) If I wanted to add more expenses (maybe a few more nights out a month, maybe eating out 5-6 more times a month, etc.) figuring out how I can add to my current income.
3) Looking long-term. I’m planning on getting married in the near future, and I don’t expect to get a lot of help from either parents - figuring out what I need to save, planning, etc.
4) Keeping an eye on unnecessary spending. You said keep an eye on the small stuff like eating out for lunch. This summer I have packed a lunch nearly every day of work and I can guarantee it has saved at least a few hundred dollars (if not more).
Looking forward to your future posts!
September 7th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Thanks for such an inspiring story April. Just goes to show that with determination you can get out of any debt. What is it that Marty McFly says? ‘If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything’
September 8th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Used my emergency fund big time in past year. Aug 08: $5k for A/C failure during heat wave. March 09: paid ~1/2 of $19k air ambulance to move my mom from rinky dink hospital near her vacation site to good one near me. The last, esp, convinced me I want to keep a sizable emergency fund that’s very liquid.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Annonymous (61)–”When you’re only making $26k it’s a tough “rule” to follow, but the idea is laudable, I think.”–I actually more agree with the 10% rule for lower incomes. (BTW, I’ve never heard of the 10% rule before this thread!)
In my previous career I’d see people with $30k incomes and $30k car loans at $600/month. A person at that income level is heading for disaster with that situation.
He/she would be better with the 10% rule, buying a used beater for $3000, and saving up enough money to buy something better in the future. Just because a lender says yes to an outsized loan doesn’t mean you can afford it.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Every time I read a post like this I really question whether this is realistic. My wife and I have $44k of debt (not including mortgage), all on a secured line of credit at 2.25% interest, but that’s everything (cars, student loans, etc). This seems completely normal and even below average for someone my age (30).
I think (and this is completely my opinion) that it is insane to toss extra money at debt that’s at a low interest rate right now, when I can be investing in a market that is extremely cheap at the moment.
And about having an emergency fund…yeah I would if I had my debt paid off, but I have space on my line of credit for any emergency, and the money is dirt cheap. Why would I leave thousands of dollars in an account that wasn’t earning much interest?
I dunno, maybe I look too much at the math, but a lot of the decisions people make don’t seem to be based on logic.
So that said, when I was 25 and making $60k I bought a $40k BMW @ 1.9% interest, because i wanted it. Do i regret that decision? Hell no, it makes me happy every single time I get in it. I LOVE driving that car.
I fight with myself every day because I have two mentalities, one long term mentality that makes me plan and save a lot, and one short term mentality that says I could die tomorrow so better enjoy now.
Last thing..before you think I just blow my money, I have been saving in RRSP (canadian version of 401k) since I was 18. Together my wife and I have about $100k saved and we are currently at a point of saving over $30k a year. Here I come early retirement…
Oh, and just to ensure I retire when I want, with the money I want, I got off my lazy butt and started a side business to increase my income.
September 8th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
@Lee:
Congratulations on your RRSP accounts. From what I’ve read, the Canadian financial system and the Canadian health care system are in much better shape than the US versions during this widespread recession. A 2.25% secured line of credit sounds incredibly cheap. I believe that today’s student loans are in the neighborhood of 5.6% or greater, and that would also be true of Home Equity Lines of Credit. Can’t say for Canada, but here in the U.S., the terms of all these loans has changed widely, and not to the benefit of consumers. The companies may adjust everything with very little notice, so that in the best case, you are suddenly paying 22% for money that you need for an emergency, and in the worst case, 22% for a quarter of the credit line you had originally. You may have read that 60% of U.S. bankruptcies are due to medical debt. Because the average U.S. consumer is exposed to these risks a great deal more, the need for cash as a hedge is greater.
As I read your situation, you are unlikely to have crushing medical debt, and your secured line of credit terms are not likely to change as capriciously, so keeping a large cash cushion is not as necessary.
Regarding the BMW — when one can honestly say, it’s worth every penny to me, and one can also honestly say that it doesn’t impact basic expenses, a splurge needs no further justification.
September 8th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
@L. Hernandez:
Hmm, my LOC just rides on prime, I figured that there would be comparable credit vehicles for the States…but maybe not.
You’ve got the bit about medical bang on. Technically I don’t pay a dime of my own money for medical care, although we do indirectly through taxes. That said, it’s also a long wait for some medical care. A lot of Canadians are building a nest egg of capital just in case they get cancer or something severe. If they do they just fly down to the states and get fixed up without a two year wait. So there are ups and downs to both systems.
Don’t get me wrong, I REALLY want to be out of debt, not just consumer but mortgage as well. I can’t even imagine what I would do with thousands extra every month even after maxing all my saving vehicles. I can’t wait until that day!
@April:
Don’t read my initial comment as disagreeing with your approach or goals. They just seem so different than mine, and maybe part of that is because of differing systems between the States and Canada…
September 10th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I could identify with a lot of your points and goals and methods.
I’m still paying off my debt of around £15,000 ($25k USD) but, I’m getting there. My blog is my diary and also my soap box, much like GRS but aimed at the UK instead.
It gets next to no visitors but I don’t mind. Writing it down and knowing it might help just one person is enough motivation to continue!
December 9th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Financial Samurai has it right. 1/10 for car would suffice. Many 20-40 year olds will trade future wealth for car payments. That’s their choice (but, I doubt they really understand the numbers).
You would not guess my income by the car I drive.
January 5th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
From one April to another, I thank you for this story! You are so right that it is so hard to add up your total debt. We finally did it a few weeks ago and it is staggering! Great story.