This post is from GRS Staff Writer Adam Baker. In addition to writing for Get Rich Slowly, Baker blogs over at Man vs. Debt, where he often discusses traveling and the cost of living abroad.
A couple weeks ago, the New York Times featured an article entitled “Overspending on Debit Cards is a Boon for Banks“. While I usually favor personal finance blogs over the larger online media networks (call me partial), this piece was particularly compelling to me. It does an excellent job of shedding light on a topic that is positioned to be the next major debate in our government’s quest for banking reform.
27 billion reasons the banks want you to overdraft
As many other sectors of the banking industry continue to under-perform, debit cards have stepped up to become an essential profit center for banks. Fees associated with overdrafting checking accounts are expected to exceed $27 billion this year. In comparison, the article predicts only $20.5 billion in credit card fees, which is likely to drop even further in the years ahead as recent government reform will require consumers to opt in to over-the-limit charges.
While the majority of the article is fantastic, in spots The New York Times tends to go out of its way to demonize debit cards as compared to credit cards. For example:
According to [a 2008] FDIC study, a $27 overdraft fee that a customer repays in two weeks on a $20 debit purchase would incur an annual percentage rate of 3,520 percent. By contrast, penalty interest rates on credit cards generally run about 30 percent.
The math here is a little foggy. They calculate the APR assuming that the $27 overdraft is based only on the one $20 purchase, while basing the credit card fees on the entire balance on the card. Of course, if you went over the limit on your credit card on a $20 purchase and got charged $27 fee, the percentage would be very similar (usually even more with interest).
Fuzzy math aside, there’s little doubt that the nature of these fees can be steep. The most severe problems tend to be when multiple smaller charges are allowed to pass through and each slapped with the same fee. The resulting chain of fees can quickly add up to hundreds of dollars.
The “benefits” of overdrafting.
The banking industry continues to take the stance that the ability to overdraft is offered as a convenience or a benefit. They claim that allowing you to overdraft could actually prevent you from violating a contract, paying higher interest, or being charged with late-payment fees. In addition, you would avoid the embarrassment or hassle that could come with having your debit card rejected at the point-of-sale. From the New York Times article:
“Everyone should know how much they have in their account and manage their funds well to avoid those fees,” said Scott Talbott, chief lobbyist at the Financial Services Roundtable, an advocacy group for large financial institutions.
I completely agree that the end responsibility rests solely on the consumer. If I overdraft my account, I am the one responsible. We shouldn’t be searching for a scapegoat or shifting the blame.
At the same time, the issue becomes much more complicated when consumers are required to have overdrafting enabled on their accounts. Many are simply wanting the banks to be more clear and upfront with their fees, allow consumers to opt out of the so-called “benefits” of overdrafting, or at least be informed when making a purchase that the account has been overdrafted.
Should the government intervene?
Many point to the recent Credit CARD Act of 2009, which stipulates that consumers will soon have to opt in to allow the limits of their credit cards to be exceeded (and incur the fees). They suggest similar legislation should mandate that consumers be required to opt in to the process of overdrafting. At the very least, they want all banks to offer consumers the opportunity to opt out.
On the flip side, The New York Times provides evidence from economists who suggest that tighter government restrictions could cause a serious ripple effect in the banking industry. For a large percentage of banks, their profit margin is less than the amount they collect in fees related to overdrafts. Any restriction on collecting these fees would force banks to immediately make up this revenue elsewhere, and many have suggested monthly fees on checking accounts would be an inevitable result.
The problem seems to be primarily concentrated within a small percentage of the consumers who take advantage of these products:
Ninety-three percent of all overdraft charges come from 14 percent of bank customers who exceeded their balances five times or more in a year, the FDIC found in its survey.
Should the 86% of consumers that use debit and checking products responsibly pay monthly checking fees to support the individuals who struggle? Should we allow the banks to prey on the 14% who are struggling to handle their accounts responsibly, so that we can obtain the benefits of these products for free? Obviously, there is no simple answer.
Scummy banking practices
The New York Times article also details the practice of banks reordering transactions in situations when an overdraft occurs. For example, many banks will change the order of purchases to prioritize the largest transactions. The banks claim that many consumers would rather their larger bills, such as car, house, or utility payments, be paid first. However, there are ample cases in which tacking the smallest charges on last dramatically increases the number of overdraft charges. In fact, this practice actually maximizes the amount of fees the banks can collect.
In addition, last week The New York Times ran a follow-up article, “Hurry Up and Credit My Account“. This latest piece details the current regulations on how long and how often banks can hold your incoming deposits. Many accuse the larger institutions of taking advantages of loopholes to hold back deposits longer, thereby increasing the potential for overdraft fees.
In the two specific cases above, I have no problem with government intervention. I would support legislation that required banks to process all expenses in the order they were received (for better or worse) and required increased transparency and consistency on the placement of holds for incoming deposits.
Is debit the new credit?
I continue to return to one thing in this discussion. For me, once debit cards enable you to spend more than is available in your checking account, they become credit cards. It’s really that simple, right? What happened to actual debit cards along the way?
Here in New Zealand, I have a true debit card. There is no Visa or Mastercard logo. I can’t use it for online purchases. However, it is accepted at all point-of-sale vendors (and ATMs). What happens if I try to charge something for which no funds exist? It’s rejected! Gasp!
I find the debit card situation here refreshing — both in theory and practice. What about you? What do you think about overdraft fees being such an essential profit-center for banks? Is this another industry where you would support government intervention? Share your thoughts below!
This article is about Credit Cards, News Thursday, 24th September 2009 (by Adam Baker)


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September 24th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Any instrument that allows you to spend more then you actually have is “credit”. With that credit, there will always be those who overextend themselves.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:23 am
I was interested to read that you can overdraft on the debit cards with the logo– I live in the US and my debit card does not have a Visa/Mastercard logo at it, so I can use it at most ATMs and a lot of point of purchase locations but can’t overdraft. I’m meticulous about balancing my checkbook…
September 24th, 2009 at 5:47 am
One of the scummiest tactics I have encountered was when I banked with Republic Bank. If you checked your balance (say at the ATM) your real balance would not show, but instead the amount shown would be your real balance PLUS the allowable overdraft amount. So, one time I overdrew my account because I thought my income tax refund had finally been deposited into my account because it about the same amount as the “overdraft protection” amount. It was truly slimy. That’s when I started balancing my account every couple of days and only going by what I have written in my register. I just couldn’t trust the bank.
The reason I think that debit purchases should be denied instead of overdrafted: imagine that the teller at the bank has just made a typo and instead of depositing money into your account, actually debited that amount from your account. You go merrily on your way, debiting and paying bills, and all the while you are racking up fee after fee and all because of something you can’t control. Happens more than you’d care to think.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:49 am
I’m of the opinion that the govenment should not be regulating debit cards. If someone doesn’t like that the bank requires them to have overdraft protection, they should find a different bank.
I’ve noticed more places accepting EBT (Electronic Bank Transfer). I image those are like real debit cards that will get rejected if you go over, but I’m not sure, and I don’t know how to get EBT.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:54 am
I think people need to be accountable for their own spending. Don’t overdraw from your account. Period. Then all these additional fees become moot.
I’d rather the government focus on more important things.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:56 am
“The Golden Rule” will always prevail. (Golden Rule: he who has the gold makes the rules) These banking institutions have and control the financial world. As long as there are consumers who will choose to spend more than they have, these institutions will thrive on adding charges and taking everything they can get. I agree that a debit card ought not have the ability to overdraft more than what is in the account (I also don’t know how credit cards ever got to overdrafting more credit than they had allowed either, other than it was another way to charge more fees). Sure, it might be frustrating to have a card declined, but if you don’t have the money to make the purchase, then you also don’t have the money to pay the penalty associated with overdrafting your account.
We could opt to have the government legislate, but not only is that restricting the invisible hand of free enterprise to move, it will also have a butterfly effect on another part of the sector.
I digress…
September 24th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Because we use our debit cards for all day to day purchases* this is an issue for us. We also limit how much money we keep in the checking accounts tied to our debit cards (we use an allowance system for our day to day spending). As a result we originally had some trouble managing our debit cards and ran into the overdrafting problem. In order to avoid overdraft fees we link our primary checking with a small primary savings account ($500-$1000) and I review our online statements just about every day towards the 15th and last day of the month (pay day for both of us). When our balances get low we stop spending or we can transfer in money from our savings if really necessary.
Switching to Debit was one of the major reasons we were able to pay off $55,500 in debt in just over a year and one of the reasons we are able to save a good chunk of our income.
The only real complaint I have with the banks and governement on this issue is the interplay Check 21 and the Expedited Funds Availability Act. Check 21 speeds up the fund transfers, those benefits are not necessarily passed on to the consumers.
While the bank of deposit clears and receives the funds associated with a deposited transaction sooner than before, it may still legally hold them for a period of days specified by Expedited Funds Availability Act. During that period, the funds are essentially in the bank possession; accumulated across all the bank customers at any given day, such funds earn the bank a sufficiently large amount of interest.
If Check 21 speeds up debits, the gov. should have also increased the speed that deposits clear, if this disparity was righted I would have no complaints.
*We find using debit cards helps us to (1) stay out of debt (2) control our spending by spending current dollars not future dollars (3) track our spending, we can download our debit purchases directly into Quicken.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:58 am
I believe the verb form is “overdraw”….
My overdraft protection is in the form of transferring money from my money market account into my checking account, for which my credit union charges me $3 (and yes, if multiple things hit at the same time they will put in the largest one first). Is this what we’re talking about, or are banks actually lending money to make up the difference?
September 24th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Uh oh, you better watch out…. People no longer believe in personal responsibility these days. Oh no, now it’s everyone else’s fault as to why we can’t do what we want/we’re in debt/we can’t afford this or that/etc.
Seriously. Personal Responsibility. It’s not hard, I promise.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:14 am
Condescending attitude aside…wouldn’t declining the sale at POS lead to better personal responsibility?
At least then you would know something had been entered incorrectly and could follow up with the bank right away instead of incurring fees before you know of the error.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:16 am
I don’t think overdraft fees are scummy at all. They are a penalty for keeping poor tabs on your finances and over-spending.
My ex gets hit with overdraft fees on his debit card a lot. Why? Because he keeps poor records of what he spent so he is never 100% sure of what’s in his account, and when he deposits a check, he assumes the money will be there the same or next day, which is usually untrue. He also can’t say no to certain frivolous purchases such as beer or cigarettes.
The banks are in no way to blame for his lack of organization, discipline and self-control. If he would diligently write down transactions, keep track of what money is coming in and going out, and didn’t over-spend on frivolities, then he wouldn’t have to pay the fees, simple as that. Overdraft fees should NOT be banned by the government and people should take more personal responsibility in keeping track of their finances.
That said, I will say this: The banks ARE at fault for scummy practices such as running transactions through out of order, with the largest going through first in the interest of being able to charge multiple overdraft fees as opposed to just one. That should be banned (via government intervention), and banks should be forced to play fair, and run transactions through in the order which they are executed. This makes the most sense and is the most fair.
Also, I think deposits should never take ‘days’ to clear. There is just no excuse for that, and it seems the banks could speed the deposit process up. Still, people do need to take responsibility in making sure the money is definitely in their account before they go spending it.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Overdraft fees happen to the responsible too, because banks rearrange the order of deposits and withdrawals at night. Say you have $0 in the bank. You deposit $500 cash (so it credits immediately), and then 5 hours later make a $10 purchase at CVS. At night, banks tally up the day’s spending so that debits are calculated before deposits. Rearranged, your balance goes negative, then you’re slapped with overdraft fees, and then your deposit is credited. Sneaky, eh? When you’re living paycheck to paycheck, this happens all too often. There was an article about it in the Washington Post 2 days ago, but I can’t seem to find it…
September 24th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Overall I found this an interesting and provocative article. However, I think it’s misleading and not empirically right to claim the NYT is using “fuzzy math”. They are using different assumptions than you are and they come up with a different result. You can discuss your disagreement with their assumptions without sounding like a guy in a tinfoil hat. Nothing is wrong with the math; you’re disagreement is with the argument’s logic.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:30 am
“Scummy banking practices
The New York Times article also details the practice of banks reordering transactions in situations when an overdraft occurs. ”
Scummy is too kind. These bankers are leeches at best.
If the bank honors all the transactions anyway - what difference does the sequence make?
The only difference is in the number of overdrafts.
This excuse of ‘more important’ drafts get paid first first is so blatantly despicable that I’m amazed they dare try to get away with that.
These are predatory lending practices and should be dealt with accordingly.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Yes to personal responsibility. That’s a given. However, consumer protection is one area where the Federal government does have a tradition of helping out the citizenry — and even their protections can get watered down! Slimy practices like chickybeth mentioned, in addition to ordering the overdrafted items to maximize profit, as mentioned in the article, can be viewed as things that need to be reformed.
As a consumer, I would definitely like to be able to opt out of overdraft protection and just be outright denied a purchase. “Overdraft protection” has been a sham service just about forever — I recall my mother overdrafting once, then finding out that “overdraft protection” at the bank wasn’t them making an automatic transfer from another account to your checking account — it was a short-term loan at interest rates barely allowed by law!
There’s also a lot to be said for the BS time periods banks hold onto checks and deposits. Sure, they need to protect themselves from bad checks and so on, but in a day and age where checks clear electronically (Check 21 became law in 2004!), holding onto the time periods from when the physical check had to be moved is just another way to screw the customer. Consumers Union really called this one when they saw it. Some excerpts:
“Under this law, consumers will be more likely to bounce checks and may find themselves paying higher bank fees.”
“EXPECT THE CHECKS YOU WRITE TO CLEAR FASTER: Don’t write a check unless the funds are already in your account. The checks you write will clear faster, but banks aren’t required to speed up the time when they make funds available from the checks that you deposit.”
http://www.consumersunion.org/finance/ckclear1002.htm
Edit: I had forgotten about Kim’s example. That’s definitely another case where some common sense needs to be applied.
All this said, I’ve been migrating more and more to using the cash envelope system. There are no stupid fees, I always know the balance and it encourages me to be more mindful of my spending. I haven’t faced the possibility of an overcraft in decades, but it seems that banks are just out there looking for ways to screw me.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:34 am
JD, I like your comments, but I wish you would put them at the end as notes instead of in the middle of the other author’s work. I find that your comments really break the author’s flow and it always takes me a minute to re-orient myself after you’ve taken me out of the article.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:36 am
@Adam: EBT stands for Electronic Benefit Transfer. It’s how foodstamps are processed now. Through the credit card scanning machines at checkout lines.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:37 am
I don’t think the banks should be allowed to re-order the transactions. That doesn’t seem right.
As for the fees themselves - too bad. I have no idea why debit cards are so popular when credit cards are a far better alternative. Cash is still accepted at most institutions as well.
What did these idiots use before debit cards were invented? Were they better off then?
September 24th, 2009 at 6:38 am
“credit cards are a far better alternative”
A better alternative for the credit card company’s bottom line, maybe
September 24th, 2009 at 6:45 am
I’d have to agree with JD and say the reordering of the transactions is the scummiest thing banks do. Over a year ago, my husband and I had this same thing happen to us. The bank reordered our transactions and let a large transaction through. Then, a bunch of little ones were approved. We ended up with $330 in overdraft fees.
Had the bank taken the transactions in the order spent, the largest transaction would have been last and it would have been declined, or worse case scenario, accepted with one overdraft fee of $30.
The bank, instead, profited $300 on us instead of what should have been a $30 overdraft. slimy!
-Little House
September 24th, 2009 at 6:49 am
My new credit union does something I’ve never seen before, and that I find really scummy. They will overdraft you on your pending transactions.
Say, for example, you have $50 in the bank and need gas. You go to the gas station, and because it’s cold and raining you decide to pay at the pump. Insert your debit card, put in $30 worth of gas, get your receipt and drive off on your merry way. You didn’t know it, but the gas pump put a hold on your account for $75.
Even though that $75 is just a hold and will never clear, my bank will charge me $25 for “overdrafting”. This happened to me when I deposited cash via their teller machine and then, several hours later (cash is supposed to always clear immediately when using that machine) picked up a prescription, which I paid for using debit. I’m used to debit (PIN) transactions being declined if there was no money there from my old CU. That night, I get home and balance my account. Seems that a gas hold had put me in the red, and I now had 2 overdraft charges. And my cash that was supposed to be applied to my account immediately was still no where to be seen, and not counted towards either the available balance or the pending balance.
I called, I asked nicely for someone to explain to me exactly how I had overdrafted, didn’t get it, asked them to explain again as if I was a particularly slow child, and then they pushed my cash through and waived the overdrafts.
They shouldn’t be using “pending” transactions to overdraft, because they could be holds or whatever that are going to fall off. And if they’re going to be sneaky like that, they should at least also count pending deposits.
If I didn’t have my car loan through them, I’d change banks altogether.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:51 am
This sort of thing is why I love my credit union. If I screw up, they will check my savings account and transfer the needed funds to checking in order to cover whatever I am trying to run on the debit card. Is a very handy feature, and they don’t charge me a cent for it.
Only ever had this happen once, and it was because my lovely employer at the time was behind processing payroll. I didn’t even realize what had happened until I logged in to check my balances that evening. No hassle at all on my end.
The one down side to this is that if someone steals your card, they have to potential to clean out your accounts completely. Like all things it has its good and bad side, but for me that added security against overdraw fees is worth it.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:52 am
I’m going to echo all those who said personal responsibility. What ever happened to making a mistake and accepting the consequences of it?
And here’s another beautiful thing: choice. If you don’t like the practices of the bank you’re with, switch.
@Kim #12 - I’ve never heard of a bank re-ordering deposits. Maybe it’s time to take your business elsewhere.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:55 am
It is frustrating when the place you depend on security of your money is the very people trying to nickel and dime you to death. I keep my account with Bank of America because they’re national making it easier when I travel. I like my credit union because of good service and strong rates.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:03 am
This seems like another one of those examples where a disproportionate few may actually be propping up the ‘free’ and ‘low fee’ checking systems that the rest of us benefit from. Without them feeding the system, everyone might need to pony up to keep their accounts.
On the other hand, there are no fewer than a million ways to solve any problem, so it seems likely that we could make the rules a lot more fair without harming anyone in the process.
The debate over the cost of universal health care comes to mind as a similar topic, but I would never suggest that debit card overdraft fees are as serious as that.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:08 am
I’d rather have the banks charging people who deserve it (overdraw their accounts) than slap a monthly fee on everybody. I’m sick of the government over-regulating business to “protect” people from fees that are their fault.
I do agree that the deposit rules are ridiculous. Nearly everything is electronic these days, there should be no “holds” that last days.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:10 am
Great write up - I’ve been covering the debit card stuff on my own blog, too and you pulled out some really interesting points from those articles.
I noticed recently in the news that charge cards are rising in popularity, too. It’s like the best (or worst?) of both worlds - you can make purchases but have to pay it all off by the end of the month (can’t carry a balance). It seems like everyone fled from credit to debit and then the wily tactics followed - now small businesses are turning to charge cards and Chase is looking to cash in.
I guess the only safe haven is cash. Or is there a way to charge fees on cash, too?
September 24th, 2009 at 7:15 am
I think government’s should intervene on this. The government in Australia has intervened in the pay day lending industry I am pretty sure same in America. Allowing customers going into overdraft is basically the same as a customer taking out a payday loan. The benefits they are selling are exactly the benefits which payday lenders sell
“The “benefits” of overdrafting.
The banking industry continues to take the stance that the ability to overdraft is offered as a convenience or a benefit. They claim that allowing you to overdraft could actually prevent you from violating a contract, paying higher interest, or being charged with late-payment fees”
To me it seems like the banks have noticed massive profit potential in this niche and want a piece of the action.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:20 am
For the “personal responsibility” cheerleaders, everyone agrees with you. The problems come with the ways in which banks are handling your money in order to try and reap more profit with practices like “holding” your deposit (despite checks clearing electronically), the “debit hold” BS (always use “credit” at the gas pump and reordering withdrawls. Keep in mind that the economy is in the crapper, 10% of people are without work and it’s generally sour financial times out there, so it’s possible that there are a lot of “responsible” people who are just getting by and might be living check to check. A year without a job can be a scary place, and that pile of overdraft fees you got because you found out your unemployment check takes 2-3 days to clear can mean quite a bit.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:23 am
I got a debit card to go with my ING Direct checking and savings accounts I opened last year. While I haven’t overdrafted based on a debit card purchase, I did do so paying a bill online — basically i forgot to transfer enough money from savings to checking. I think it ended up costing me 10 cents or something ridiculously low. It’s very nice to have an extra $500 I know I can potentially go over with and only pay a small financing charge on the amount, rather than an automatic $30 fee. I assume the same holds true for a in-store debit card purchase.
Also, I’ve never experienced a bank reordering any transactions so that I would go over my limit. On numerous occasions, I have written a check for more than my limit, and then gone to deposit cash or a check the same day, and I’ve never gotten an overdraft because of it. Perhaps it’s just good luck; though I’d like to believe it’s because I’ve usually banked on smaller banks with only two or three locations.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:33 am
I also once had an experience with being charged overdraft fees in a sketchy way — in this case, my statement balance appeared positive throughout, but I was still charged fees because of transaction ordering. It seems unfair to me, especially in this case where I was keeping a very close eye on my balance and was unable to tell from the information presented to me what they were doing. (I had to call them and get the customer service guy to show me the secret back-end log to find out; they did not refund the fees.)
September 24th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Hmmm, almost sounds like you are implying credit cards are evil in the title. I suppose that’s a reasonable stance for Man vs. Debt to take, but many others find them an invaluable tool for saving an extra 2-5% on purchases.
(Granted it’s pretty rare to still have the 5% nowadays).
September 24th, 2009 at 7:34 am
To Four Pillars:
Agree it’s customer’s fault.
But, some people are unable to do simple things.. Do they have to be punished so severely for being unable to balance a checkbook?
The bank’s practices are unconscionable.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:35 am
@Alexandra: That’s a good point I didn’t mention directly. Any amount of time the government spends on this is distracting away form other issues. Adds a new dimension to justifying reform (at least right now).
@Sam: Your story is very similar to my own. We LOVE our debit cards and still primarily use them. We’ve been fortunate not to struggle to much with this issue, although if a bank reordered my transactions, I’m not sure I could control myself.
@B: Great point. By “fuzzy math”, I meant the logic behind the math was fuzzy. I should have been more clear.
@Jack: Soon… they will find a way!
September 24th, 2009 at 7:39 am
I don’t think banks give you free checking so they can charge you fees. The more deposits they have, the more they can lend. Because of the way the lending regulation works, they can lend out $5,000 for every $1,000 in deposits, and earn 5.5% interest on the loan. Why would they charge you to keep money in your account?
Removing these fees will at most increase the minimums on free checking, or they will use it as an excuse to charge you, when it’s not really justified. If you’re making 27.5% on my deposit, then I’m not paying you for anything. I don’t even remember the last time I went into the local branch, so I’m not really costing them much.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:41 am
I recently over drafted by $.98 and I was charged $35. Real nice!
September 24th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Debit cards in Canada work the same as in New Zealand. You can’t use them online, you can only use them where the facilities exist in stores (which is almost all of them) or at ATMs, and if you don’t have the money in your account for the purchase, you get told you have insufficient funds and, too bad so sad, no purchase for you.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:50 am
I have an overdraft… I voluntarily signed up for it just in case. If I don’t go into it, there is no interest charged, and if I do go into it, I am charged interest based on the negative amount until money is deposited again. If you don’t have an overdraft, then in my opinion you need to be doubly sure what amount is in your account. I don’t like to go into my overdraft, but sometimes it happens. I know I am responsible for the interest I incur, and I am fine with that. Debit cards don’t have to cost you fees and/or interest if you use them responsibly. I think the onus is on the customer. People can whine all they want that “It’s not fair I got a $30 over the limit fee!” well it is. You agreed to the account, and borrowing from the bank when you do not have an agreed overdraft SHOULD cost you interest - whatever it might be.
September 24th, 2009 at 7:55 am
The frustrating thing for me is that each bank has a different policy. My current bank is one of those that arranges the transactions for maximum benefit to them. My previous bank would always put deposits first. So, I could monitor my accounts, and if my wife’s account was about to overdraft, I could transfer some money to cover it. But with our current bank, it’s too late by the time I see it.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:03 am
“In addition, you would avoid the embarrassment or hassle that could come with having your debit card rejected at the point-of-sale”
When I turned 18, I got my first debit card from a local bank. If I didn’t have enough cash in my account, the card would be rejected. Far from being an embarrassment or a hassle, I loved it! I’m sick of banks telling me what is a benefit to me.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:09 am
@Jason - “credit cards are a far better alternative”
A better alternative for the credit card company’s bottom line, maybe
Yes, if you use credit cards irresponsibly. For the rest of us - CCs are a very useful tool.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:14 am
@Mark W - To Four Pillars:
Agree it’s customer’s fault.
But, some people are unable to do simple things.. Do they have to be punished so severely for being unable to balance a checkbook?
The bank’s practices are unconscionable.
Regarding the bank’s practices - I agree. Re-ordering transactions should be illegal.
As for people who can’t do simple things…I just don’t know. I suspect that most people who can’t balance a checkbook have the ability to do so but they are not interested or won’t make the time. I’m just not sure if regulation should be introduced to help that group?
September 24th, 2009 at 8:17 am
In response to the titular question: No.
They’re pretty much the most convenient money tool ever.
I have not overdrafted my checking account since years ago when I got my financial affairs in order and stopped living within a few dollars of a zero balance. Calling debit cards evil because you can overdraft your account with them is like calling cars evil because it’s easy to crash them when you’re drunk. The car (or card) is not encouraging any irresponsibility here, it’s entire on the shoulders of the operator.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I wouldn’t compare the debit to a credit card as much as I would compare it to writing a bad check.
We are really in an age of not taking responsibility.
We all make mistakes, but I don’t believe that’s where the majority of the money is made.
People today spend more than they have and wonder why it costs them.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:20 am
I had not overdrafted in years, but had a flurry of them this spring. It was incredibly confusing to figure out what happened and what the multiple charges were for, as when you logged into our checking account we were getting overcharge fees when it showed we had a positive balance. (It took awhile but I think I remember from the explanation that again, transactions were not processed in the order that they were showed, and the overcharge fees then made subsequent small transactions have overcharge fees, starting a a domino effect. I was able to have a number of the overcharges dismissed, and I cancelled the overdraft “courtesy” from my debit card.
I feel for those people who recieve large personal checks for their business, but having to wait on those funds to deposit when any business-related withdrawals are taken out immediately.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:22 am
In many states, an overdraft fee for writing a bad check would be the least of your worries. If you overspend on your debit card and your rent check bounces, you could go to JAIL. In Georgia, it’s called deposit account fraud. If you get notice from the draftee and you don’t respond, fraudulent intent is presumed.
Banks were doing this before debit cards even existed, and it is a valuable service. It’s only become an issue since people started using debit cards (irresponsibly) and incurring the fees more often. If I was worried that I might overdraft my account, I’d be grateful that my bank made an effort to keep me from going to jail.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:33 am
What happened to the days when a purchase would be rejected if the CC account didn’t have enough funds in it? A return to that practice is what the government should push for as that would obviate a lot of the other regulations they wish to put into place.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I am pretty sure that everyone is aware that banks can require up to five business days for a cheque to “clear”. The timing can vary from bank to bank - it’s pretty simple to check what your own bank’s policy is. Just look at your account service statement.
We are aware of this fact, the bank has always been very clear about this, yet some people are still surprised that they have to wait? I don’t get why.
It’s obviously someone else’s fault.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Agreed! Debit cards need to be and stay as “plastic currency”. Your debit card is worth the same amount that you have in your checking account - just in a different form.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I think we need to recognize that overdraft protection is just a fancy term for ‘loan’ and therefore should be subject to all the state and federal regulations that apply to loans.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Ultimately, saying “responsibility” is the key is correct, however, the practice of re-ordering the withdrawals and holding some deposits and not holding others have caused my family to have many issues. With B of A, if I make a deposit of a check in an ATM of up to $300, it’s credited instantly. If I take that same check and deposit it with a teller, sometimes there’s a hold and sometimes there’s not. I had this happen with different checks, from the same entity over the course of a few weeks. When the teller/bank decided to put a hold on the check for 3 days I had 4 overdraft fees as a result. When I called to try to straighten it out, I was told that the company would credit the fees once the hold was over…but only if I called back and requested it after the hold was over. These are the reasons that there needs to be consistent rules. I shouldn’t have to figure out how to “game” the system with each bank I use based on their interpretation of the rules.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Our bank is one of those that clears the big item first then the little ones. The one time we made a mistake in a calculation and was just a few dollars short of covering everything outstanding the bank cleared the big payment first (an automatic withdrawal) and denied about 7 very small others. If they had covered the smaller ones first we would have only overdrew the one large one. They of course charged a fee for every one and a fee for everyday it was not rectified. Most of the small ones were also debit transactions that were cleared at purchase because we had funds at the time. My bank simply had me write a letter to them explaining how I thought it was wrong at what they were doing and what I proposed should happen. They refunded all of the overdraft fees except for one and I paid for one day of fees for being in the negative. Our paychecks had been deposited in the meantime.
I think the main point is when you think you are cutting close sometime be in constant contact (online banking for us) with your account. Oh, and let your partner know you used the debit card AND remember the amount. He’s pretty good about that now.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I switched to ING Direct’s Electric Orange Checking Account for the many reasons described in this post with bank fees. They do not charge an overdraft fee; however, they extend you a $1000 line of credit that if you spend more than your available balance will be drawn from. You are charged interest (like 8% right now) on the negative balance that is it, no exorbitant fees. If you cover that balance the same day you do not incur any charges.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:53 am
I like debit cards, for me it allows me not to have to always carry cash around but can use it like it. I can then track better what I buy and categorize it and see how it affects me directly with online banking.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Here is my solution to avoid overdraft fees: I am one of those people who meticulously balance my checkbook and check my bank account every few days. The problem is that I have all of my monthly bills automatically taken out of my checking account (so I never have to worry about accidentally being late). To ensure that I never overdraw, I keep one month of my emergency fund in my checking account. I keep an additional 5 months’ of my emergency fund in an ING Orange Savings account. Since I started doing this, I have never had an overdraft fee. And since my company reimburses slowly for work expenses I do occasionally find that I dip into that month to pay the expense before my reimbursement deposit arrives.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Debit card are indeed better than credit cards to check your expenses but as far as overdrafting goes, it’s easy to overdraft with a check as well.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:09 am
It amazes me that with today’s technology, banks can’t seem to find a way to cut off your account before you are overdrawn. You shouldn’t be able to make a purchase if the money is not there.
If this is a problem, people need to return to cash or balancing their checkbook. Sometimes I feel like this is a lost art.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:17 am
For me, it wasn’t until I got a debit card that allowed me to actually control my spending.
Before my debit card, I would allocate so much $$$ for the week. When I ran out and needed something, I would merrily reach for my charge card!
Now I don’t use my charge card, but I also look at my checking balance several times a week, and know how much I have as well.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Way back when, and I mean WAY BACK WHEN, if you did not have the funds in your account the bank would reject a purchase on your debit card. I remember once trying to purchase groceries with my debit card, and the charge was denied. But that doesn’t happen any more.
I do have issues with the amount of time it takes to clear a deposit. I’m self-employed, so I have both a personal and business account with my bank. In order to pay myself, I have to write a check from my business account, physically go to the bank and deposit it into my personal account. If I don’t specifically mention that the check was written from my business account, the bank will put a 3-5 day hold on the deposit. Since the accounts are from the same bank, they should put the deposit through as a cash transfer. But, only if I remember to mention it. Very annoying.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Agree totally with the Times and those who see these charges as sleezy/slimy, but at the same tim, I seem to have missed understanding the benefits of a debit card — I don’t feel any shame at taking a minute or two to write a check if I don’t want to pay cash (and since my checking account is always in balance I can see immediately if I have the money!), and I don’t see how a debit card is an improvement over my rewards credit card. I’ve just never been in a situation where I thought, Gee I wish I had a debit card right now…
September 24th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Balance your check book and regulate the banks. U.S. banks and thier policies on debit cards are akin to loan sharks.
I dont want the megacorporation banks taking $30 away from one of my customers pocket when my customer could buy from me.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:35 am
I have a banking-related question.
I can flip open my cell phone, type a message to a friend on the other side of the world, and it gets delivered literally within seconds.
I can pick up my TV remote, flip to a special “On Demand” channel, order a movie, and be watching it within seconds.
I can buy an item of eBay, pay for it with PayPal (debited from my bank account), and have it delivered the next day.
So why-oh-why does it still take a WHOLE WEEK for a simple cheque to clear?
It’s friggin’ 2009, for cryin’ out loud. What’s the deal with that? Why has technology failed to master something seemingly so simple?
September 24th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Atleast with a debit card, as long as you have a grip on your spending and are responsible, you are the one in control. You will not need to be fearful of overdraft fees and the like.
However, credit cards are another story. Even the most financially reponsible are at their mercy. They can change the rules as they please, and make changes to your terms based on pretty much anything they can conjure up.
Oh, and overdraft “protection” is NOT a customer service feature. They could care less about you. It is a money making scam for the banks….and nothing more. Let me be embarrassed just once at the check out when my card is denied for insufficient funds….I guarantee you I’ll be more careful the next time. I’d rather suffer the learning experience than pay their exorbitant fees.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Honestly, WHO STILL PAYS OVERDRAFT FEES?!?!?
Every bank I’ve ever worked with offered an Overdraft Line of Credit that would kick in if you overdrew, thus trading a $30 fee for a few cents in interest. I’d love to hear which banks these people use that DON’T offer such a line.
@Kevin - 1) All of the instantaneous items you mention are electronic. Checks are paper. Even in 2009, it still takes 2-7 days to snail mail a letter. 2) Transfers between financial institutions are highly regulated and must pass through the Federal Reserve. So, even electronic transfers between banks are subject to government slowing them down. They cannot be instant AND regulated. 3) Would you really want the transfers to be instant? That would mean if a fraudster got access to your account they could clean you out that very minute.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I am a customer of Bank of America for the last 10+ years. And yet, I have never been comfortable with them. I used to be a member of University Of Iowa Credit Union and it was fantastic. I would call from all corners of the world and ask them to do weird things (such as paying my overdue property tax with a cashier’s check) and they would WALK THE CHECK over to the county registrar’s office!
Now I have found a nice credit union and am in the process of moving everything over to them. So, heed my words and find the right credit union and stick with them. They can do wonders for your sanity and for your money.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I think of debit cards as the lesser of the two evils (vs. credit cards) mostly because there’s little chance with a debit card that you’ll end up paying for this months expenses next month, next year or over the next 10 years. That ices it for me. It’s a matter of discipline.
We can get into the mechanics of which costs more or has better benefits, but those are details that ignore the most important element–the human factor.
If we’re all trying to get out and stay out of debt, spending with a credit card is a contradiction in terms.
For those of you who have dug yourselves out of a debt hole and think that credit cards are now your friend, just remember that like an alcoholic, you aren’t cured, your just recovering. Why play around with credit cards when you got into trouble with them in the past? Given the wrong circumstances, you very well might in the future.
Familiarity tends to lower inhibitions.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Re: the 14% of customers who make up the 90% of overdraft fees - I’d love to know how many of these are elderly or students. My husband & I have probably paid one or two overdraft fees in 36 years. My elderly parent however has recently been having overdrafts several times a month. I’ve intervened but w/o power of attorney I can only do so much. I know of students who have gotten quite a number of overdrafts because they were immature and irresponsible. I also know other responsible college age students who got burned when they initially had their credit card, or checking account because they were inexperienced. They learned new money mgt skills & become more responsible & avoid those penalties now. But in the meantime, we have a corporate banking culture that works very hard to entice vulnerable people to overdraft. The same corporate culture also pushed bankruptcy laws which are quite draconian not only for deadbeats but for people who face multiple problems, such as health issues, legal problems or job loss. People do need to take responsibility for their own actions, but we still need laws that protect us from loan sharks masquerading as respectable responsible corporate bodies. eg. Bk of America for one.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:15 am
How did banks make money before all of these fees? Didn’t the spread between banks lending money as mortgages/comsumer loans and and paying customers interest on money deposited into CDs and saving accounts provide enough profit?
September 24th, 2009 at 10:21 am
@Andrew, that is a great question. Maybe the banks need these fees today to cover the bad loans they’ve been making for the past 5-10 years.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:32 am
I understand that sometimes things happen. When I was younger I probably overdrew once or twice. Last month I was within a couple dollars of overdrawing because of how the payment I scheduled to my AmEx lined up with the autopayment (set up in case of missing the due date) so I had >2X what I thought would be taken drafted.
With that being said if I had a negative balance in my checking account my credit union would have made an automatic transfer (no fee) from my savings account. It isn’t just a person’s responsibility to know their balance and not overdraw, but also to do business with a bank that has the services you like, not just complain about the bank that is screwing you over, because some will.
The best way in a free market to prevent banks from “scummy” practices is to bank with their competitor who does things differently. If they lose enough customers they will change their ways. And the fact of the matter is some people DO want to make sure their rent clears before their bubble gum purchase. Let those people bank at banks that prioritize and you go bank somewhere else.
The fact of the matter is that overdraft protection is a service that has many faces. ING gives a loan, my bank does auto transfers, some charge a bank credit card…and most banks I know ask you up front if you want it, and if you write a check that bounces you can deal with the people you owe directly instead of the bank.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Lets be clear, a “debit card” that pays out money you don’t have in your account is just a very, very expensive credit card. We used to call people who charged these kinds of fees “loan sharks”.
“Should the 86% of consumers that use debit and checking products responsibly pay monthly checking fees to support the individuals who struggle?”
You are accepting the industry’s propaganda as fact. But what the numbers show is that 7% of the bank fees are still paid by the remaining 86% of account holders. Its likely the only difference is in how many charges they made before discovering their mistake, not in how “responsible” they were.
Lets be clear, if people realized the purchase was going to cost them an extra $30, they would not make it. The banks are just preying on people’s mistakes.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I looked in horror at your question “Should the government intervene?” The government has time and time again proved that the one thing they are the best at is making things worse. The last thing we need (or should want) is the government getting involved!
Just keep an eye on your balance and you should be fine. Overdraft fees are inevitable, sometimes, but if you are intentional about it you should be fine.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:44 am
@Jeffeb3 (#35):
“[Banks] can lend out $5,000 for every $1,000 in deposits”
Wait a second - What???
One of us seriously misunderstands fractional reserve banking. How can a bank lend out money it doesn’t have? If a bank only has $1,000 in its vault, how can it hand out $5,000 in cash to borrowers? Banks can’t print money.
My understanding of fractional reserve banking meant that for every $1,000 in deposits, the bank is allowed to loan out $900 of it, and only has to keep $100 in “reserves.” Someone correct me if I’m wrong. $900 is very different from $5,000. One of us is way off the mark.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Am I the only one that is starting to get tired of the answer to all of our financial problems is the Government intervening? I’m actually a pretty liberal person, but there’s a certain point where people have to take responsibility for their actions. I’ve read the few comments on here about getting scammed by the banks re-ordering transactions, and I’m sure after my comment we’ll see tons more, but for every one of those cases there are 1,000 cases of people just plain spending more money than they have. There should be a penalty for that.
September 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am
“Transfers between financial institutions are highly regulated and must pass through the Federal Reserve. ”
No, they don’t. Banks can make transfers directly and their are many private competitors to the Federal Reserves that are used for check clearing.
“So why-oh-why does it still take a WHOLE WEEK for a simple cheque to clear?”
It doesn’t. The bank usually gets the money from a check the day it is deposited. Any waiting period for you to have access to the funds is imposed by them.
September 24th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Am I the only one who gets tired of the response to any question being shouts of personal responsibility? Am I the only one who thinks occasionally leaving an ATM receipt in one’s pants pocket and washing the pants is not necessarily a sign that a person is wildly irresponsible? It was easier to balance a checkbook back in the days when the only way money got out of your checking account involved writing a check (and joint accounts could get tricky even then). I’ve also known people who had paychecks bounce, even before the current recession.
September 24th, 2009 at 11:59 am
@Peggy: I’m Canadian too and my bank uses overdraft and has ever since I can remember (close to 30 years?). In fact, when I moved my home branch to my new city they gave me a MASSIVE overdraft (up from the relatively small one I had previously), despite me telling them I didn’t want it. I was informed that it is not optional. I have no idea how they order transactions, since I’ve never overdrafted, but from what I’ve heard it’s no different from what is described in the article.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
@Des — Check 21 was passed in 2004 to allow electronic copies if checks to be processed as if they were the original item.
“While the bank of deposit clears and receives the funds associated with a deposited transaction sooner than before, it may still legally hold them for a period of days specified by Expedited Funds Availability Act. During that period, the funds are essentially in the bank possession; accumulated across all the bank customers at any given day, such funds earn the bank a sufficiently large amount of interest.”
“eChecks processed using a Check 21 solution are typically accepted in 1-3 seconds and clear the same day or overnight compared to typical Automated Clearing House system (ACH) time frames of 3 to 5 days.”
So technology allows the bank to clear the check immediately, but then legally they can sit on the funds for longer.
All the people who are going on and on about “balancing your checkbook” are entirely missing the point. Even if you balanced your checkbook in real-time, a check deposited in the bank can be held for some number of days before the funds are actually available to you. So if you have a zero balance, put in a check for $1000 and then spend $500 the next day, you can be “overdrawn”, despite the check actually being cleared AND your checkbook being balanced.
Of course, you can do as others have described and have a buffer of money in the checking account you never go below or wait the required number of days for the funds to be “yours” — but the main problem here is that the banks are performing tricks and manipulations to make the most amount of money possible off of loopholes and “gaming” the system. That’s the problem.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_21_Act
September 24th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I agree that the banks take advantage of customers.
But…
Think of it this way: $27 billion worth of people who have no idea how much money is left in their account or when that check they deposited will clear.
Be responsible.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“Am I the only one who gets tired of the response to any question being shouts of personal responsibility?”
No you aren’t the only one. If I leave the keys in my car, I have been irresponsible. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be illegal to steal the car or that the thief is absolved of responsibility.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
“it may still legally hold them for a period of days specified by Expedited Funds Availability Act”
BTW, before this “government regulation” in the 1980’s it was not untypical for banks to “hold” checks for as long as two weeks despite having almost immediate access to the funds themselves. The banks argued this was necessary in case the check bounced. But, there were banks in Florida that put two week holds on the state payroll checks deposited by Florida employees.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
@EscapeVelocity - part of personal responsibility is covering your own mistakes so you’re not hit with a $30 overdraft fee when you buy a $5 coffee at Starbucks. Yes, everyone sometimes forgets to record a transaction in their checkbook. It happens.
But, I can’t remember the last time I paid an overdraft fee because:
a) I have an overdraft line at my bank that will cover me up to $500
b) I have a cushion in my checking account of at least $1,000 at all times
c) the largest bill I usually pay from that account is right around $1,500
So even if I forget to enter a receipt, there’s very little chance I’ll ever pay a fee due to my mistake because I have a system in place to avoid it. On the off-chance I would be charged one, I bet I could call up customer service and get it waived with a simple request.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“Should the 86% of consumers that use debit and checking products responsibly pay monthly checking fees to support the individuals who struggle? Should we allow the banks to prey on the 14% who are struggling to handle their accounts responsibly, so that we can obtain the benefits of these products for free? Obviously, there is no simple answer.”
I love this point - in many ways it applies to credit cards as well. There are very few products so widely used as debit & credit cards where the “poor behavior” of some enable the “good behavior” of others to be engaged in for low or nominal fees. Not sure what the optimal long-term answer is, but it is clear that understanding the current dynamic is an important place to start. So thanks for highlighting this!
September 24th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I saved up enough money to pay off my credit card, so I’m free from silly finance charges (about $14 per month). Next I’m taking a stab at the student loans, but that’ll take me quite a while longer…wish me luck!
I almost went with the “overdraft protection” that would transfer money from my savings to my checking automatically whenever my balance is under $0, but that’s a monthly fee I can do without. Online banking helps me know exactly how much I have at all times.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I’m just surprised more people just don’t ask their banks to wave their overdraft fee, or have an extended line of credit, to catch the overdrafts in the first place.
We’ve established a $5,000 overdraft checking account for free, which is soley for this purpose of avoiding fees.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
debit cards are not the new credit cards.. because you’re only spending money you actually HAVE
the only thing that worries me about debit cards is i’ve had my identity taken twice in one month.. all they need is your card info.. expiriation date.. and the 3 digit # in back of your card..
don’t be naive and think it can’t happen to you.. because i thought the same thing
anyway.. i’ve been using cash this week because i had to cancel out my checking acct.. and i started to remember why i love using a debit card.. i HATE carrying around all that loose change
September 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
More about Expedited Funds Availability Act and Check 21 Act.
Check 21 did away with the time it took to process paper checks, paper checks are turned into electornic images and processed immediately by banks. Check 21 vastly spead up the debits from your account (checks and otherwise). Check 21 also spead up the time it takes for deposits to clear (clear meaning the money is debited from whoever wrote you the check) but the GOVERNMENT (its really not the fault of the banks, except of course they employe the lobbyists) didn’t change the rules under Expedited Funds Availability Act (a misnomer considering Check 21’s impact) so although the check has “cleared” in that is has been debited from whoever wrote you the check the bank gets to hold those funds under the Expedited Act and they make lots of money on those held funds.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
@Jason - Check 21 does not make processing as instantaneous as Kevin is suggesting to ought to be. Paper checks still require back office processing time. yes, of course this is much less time than it used to take, but it is not instantaneous. Its like you write a snail mail letter and drop it off at the Post Office. Then, an employee of the Post Office scans your letter and sends it as an email to your designated recipient. Faster than snail mail? Yes! Instant? Nope.
September 24th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
My card here in Australia is set up like Adams. No overdraft. I can only access the mone I have…I think it is a great system. And I’m with a CU so no fees either.
I like that I can’t spend it if I don’t have it. Surely that is the purpose of a debit card.
September 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Bank of America allows you to opt-out of overdraft ability. In other words, for everyone who is complaining about the fees, just tell them you’d like to opt out of overdraft ability. That way, next time you make a pit-stop at Best Buy and spend 100$ over what you have, you won’t go blaming the bank for your irresponsibility.
September 24th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
“Check 21 also spead up the time it takes for deposits to clear (clear meaning the money is debited from whoever wrote you the check)”
I think you are confusing two steps. The interbank transfer of funds always happened almost immediately. They assumed the check was good. Check 21 sped up withdrawing the money from your specific account. But it didn’t really change much on the other end. There is no notice when a check “clears”, only when payment is refused. So, while Check 21 may have made the notification of a bad check slightly faster, its probably not that much quicker.
September 24th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
#26 Kevin, if a bank can’t sustain itself simply by holding your money and lending it to others, because the cost of processing debit transactions is so high - then YOU should be charged for those transactions you are making. (I have no idea if the costs of processing debit transactions is significant to banks or not.)
But it sounds like right now the poor and careless people are subsidizing the rich and careful. It’s the American way!
September 24th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I don’t know if any of you have seen the news, but BofA and Chase have just changed their overdraft policies. If your overdraft is over just a few dollars (less than $10 @ BofA and $5 @ Chase), they won’t charge you a fee. There was a NY Times article on Tuesday:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/your-money/credit-and-debit-cards/23credit.html?ref=your-money
Huh — it looks like Wells Fargo also is joining the change: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/your-money/24credit.html?ref=your-money
Haven’t had a chance to review the articles closely for all the detailed changes, but it’s an interesting development.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Just another attempt by the big banks to rip off the consumer.
However, the key is simply this—don’t let it happen to you!
If you can’t manage your credit cards or debit cards without this occurring, cut them up.
If you can manage, then you don’t have to worry about it.
The twenty plus billion dollars that they collect just tell me that there are too many people out there who can’t handle credit/debit cards.
September 24th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
It’s facinating to see the differences between banking in different countries. Australian banks are by no means perfect, but I think, like New Zealand, we appear streets ahead of the US, and also Europe.
If I pay by debit card, my card is debited instantly. At the point of sale the machine communicates with the bank and rejects the transaction if insufficient funds are available. What is wrong with implementing this system?
I agree that people should take personal responsibility for their finances but you cannot deny the fact that these overdraft fees affect those who can least afford it - the elderly, students, those who are less literate, less educated, less financially able, under-employed, underpaid or perhaps suffering illness.
These are also the sort of people who are less able and less likely to pick up the phone, call the bank, or write a letter, and demand and receive a refund.
These people are unable to read and comprehend the huge legalese documents in the terms and conditions of a bank account. They hear “debit account” and they understand that as “not a credit card”.
I do not think it is unreasonable that the government legislate that basic banking practice protect these people.
Yes, there are always people who should know and do better and maybe should be taught a lesson by their overdraft fees, but if you’re getting down to the last few dollars in your acount, you’re probably the last person who can afford another $45 or more in overdraft fees.
Likewise in Europe there is this bizarre system where it seems to take days to debit an account and heaven forbid you try to take a debit card a few kilometres over the border… it will be useless! How frustrating that was.
September 24th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
It’s not really the ‘what’, but more so, the ‘how’.
Profits aren’t inherently evil. How you gained them could take you into the evil category. I’ve never seen banks working overtime on campus to lure students into debit cards. I’m not sure anyone’s ever described a debit card as ‘predatory’.
On the subject of legislation - as expected the gov’t has, continues to, and always will screw it up. Credit, debit - what’s the difference…. to retailers, or banks? Legislation needs to address protections and procedures around electronic forms of payment. Not one or the other.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
I have an interesting solution for this dilemma which is solemnly practiced:
At 24 years of age, I DO NOT USE A DEBIT CARD!
Not for purchases, not for the movies, not for transactions, nothing! Beyond presenting it at the bank for proof of my identity before paying a bill, I simply opt out of using these cards.
The reason? Call me “old fashioned” but personally I find that all of these fees and legal clauses associated with these practices seem reminiscent of credit cards and simply complicate life, not to mention these fees place more money in the pockets of the financial institutions. (As if they need more.)
I bet you’re all thinking: “No DEBIT CARD? But that’s impossible! It’s so inconvenient!”
But if JD and other PF bloggers taught me anything, it’s to be accountable for my OWN money and that EFFORT is always the best skill to utilize.
I don’t need a machine to dole it out to me. I work hard for it, I practice frugality and so I enjoy being in full control of the financial fruits of my labour. (Infact, I don’t even leave money in my account as it is a free account, only I profit from MY MONEY, not someone else)
On the central issue of government intervention, inevitably it is up to the individual not to fall into overdraft, however, I know human nature, and people will continue to do so as long as overdraft exists, so they should simply get rid of it altogether.
Unconventional advice to some, but wise for others.
Adrian.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I found your comment about the New Zealand system really interestign Adam.
I am in Australia (which I believe has the same banking system as NZ)and am wondering if the US is different.
In Australia we have three types of card:
Credit - same as US. This is seperate to any checkign or saving account you may have. These cards loan you up to a pre-agreed amount, you get a monthly bill and are charged interest on anything not paid by the due date. You need a to enter a pin or sign for face to face transactions.
Debit - you can only spend your own money (what is in your associated checking account) but it has the same ability as a credit card in that you have a card number and an expiry date so you can use it to purchase online, over the phone, etc.
EFTPOS - (electronic funds transfer at point of sale) you can only spend your own money that is in the associated checking account. You can use this at an ATM to take cash out or at most stores to electronically pay for items using a pin number. You can’t use it online or over the phone.
Do you now have an EFTPOS card and is this something that isn’t available in the US? If that’s the case I am amazed - everyone with a bank account in Australia (if they’re over the age of 15) has an EFTPOS card here. It doesn’t costs you anything, you can ahve unlimited free trabnsactions, there is no overdrafting, no interest etc.
Sorry to sound dumb but I really am confused
September 24th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
I totally agree that keeping track of my finances is MY responsibility and, therefore, I am responsible when I make a mistake. However, some bank practices are down right unethical! I recently ordered something from Amazon and mistakenly put it on a little used debit card for a secondary checking account instead of my Visa- just pushed the wrong button. I overdrafted the account and had no complaint with paying the fee for my mistake. What I had a huge complaint with was how my bank reordered transactions, that had occured days before, to cause three overdraft fees. I don’t buy their line on paying larger amounts first, as if that gives the transaction more weight or importance- I was buying a $30 coffee pot! On top of all that, none of this could be seen on my online banking for days and that caused me to accrue even more charges. I’ve closed all my accounts at that bank and my (frequently repeated) story is certainly bad advertising.
September 24th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
No credit or debit cards are inherently evil, imho. Banks are in business to make money, and sometimes find ways to do so that are less than friendly. Convenience always costs- don’t forget that credit/debit cards became so popular because they were so damnably convenient.
A fool and his/her money are soon parted, so wise up! Bank customers sometimes manage their money less than responsibly, and sometimes this mismanagement borders on the criminally stupid.
There are similar cards to the Aussie EFTPOS in Japan. The fact that banks are not promoting the same sort of product in North America should tell you something about how lucrative the current system is (without EFTPOS).