I’m old-school: I went to the bank to make a deposit today. (I make most of my deposits in person, inside the branch.) While I waited, I chatted with the teller, whom I know from many previous visits. “I’m writing a book about money,” I told him. “What’s the one thing you wish you could tell people about banking?”
“Save!” he said. He told me there’s a huge generation gap between savers and spenders. “The people who save are generally older. They don’t look like they have money, but they do. They’ve got a ton in their savings account and they chase the best CD rates. But the reason they have money is because they didn’t spend it when they were younger. They’ve been able to let it grow.”
“And that’s not what kids today are doing?” I asked.
“No way,” he said. “The young people I see spend all their money. They’re trying to impress their friends. They buy all this new stuff. Their bank balances are always low. They’re not going to have money saved like the older generation does.”
Then he gave me another great example. “There are people who come in here and you can see why they have money. You look at their account history, and the only thing that comes out is the big stuff, like their mortgage or their utilities. There aren’t a lot of $5 or $6 transactions.”
I laughed and said, “I’ll bet most people have tons of little stuff.”
“Oh yeah,” he said. “It’s all little stuff. But it’s that little stuff that kills you. That’s what will make it so you don’t have anything saved when you’re older.”
Before I left, I asked him if he had any tips or tricks I should put in my chapter on banking. We talked about a couple of ideas, and then he came up with something moderately clever (though it applies to just a few people): “If you’re going to overdraw your account,” he said. “Do it all at once.”
“What do you mean?” I asked.
“Well, let me give you an example. The other day, a lady called me to complain about overdraft fees. She’d been hit with a bunch of them at the same time. But when I looked at her transactions, I couldn’t believe it. She’d gone to the same grocery store four times on the same day, so she was hit with four overdraft fees. If she’d just gone once, she’d still have overdrawn her account — but only once.”
The teller also mentioned that nobody seems to know their bank balance anymore. “They don’t use a check register,” he said, “so they have to call to ask how much they have. But the problem is that what we show you have and what you actually have can be two very different things. It can take up to a week for some transactions to show up. You should track your spending, and not just trust what the ATM says.”
I thanked the teller — who looks like he’s 25, by the way — and left.
I wonder if it’s true that there’s a generation gap in saving. Has the older generation always saved? Or did they start out trying to impress their friends, too? I feel like I’m at a middle point, moving from the “spend to impress” mode of operating to a “who cares what other people think?” way of life. The latter is more liberating and it helps my bank balance.
I’m going to try to find time to interview my neighbor for my book’s banking chapter. I think she’s a manager at a nearby bank. I’d be curious to see what advice she has for people. But really, it doesn’t seem like there are a lot of fancy things you can do with a bank account. As long as you’re saving, you’ve shopped around for a good account, and you’re not afraid to ask to have fees waived, I think you’re golden!
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My parents didn’t save money until they started getting older. You didn’t start saving money until you started getting older (no offense).
This isn’t “people born before 1970 save”, it’s “people over 35 save”.
Young people usually don’t have much to save, anyway. They have lower-paying jobs, less-established careers, cars that aren’t paid off (it takes five years for most people to pay off a car).
It’s easier to save once you’ve established yourself.
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Ditto Tyler, but I would also add that there’s just a lot more temptations now. Even if you go back 20 years, there wasn’t a coffee shop on every corner, specialty stores with fascinating items, and there certainly wasn’t anything like the internet making the rarest of items accessible to anyone with a computer!
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Overall, I love your blog, but this post left me cold. I understand the dialogue device you’re using, but I think it’s very important for this type of post to have a feeling of authenticity. This post just feels forced and faked (as these “Some guy on the street said this” posts often do), and it really bothers me for some reason. Was it really necessary to put these words in a banker’s mouth to make your points?
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@Jonathan I used to work at a major bank on the west coast and this point is exactly true. I was a phone banker and people used to call in all the time to see what their darn balances were and then ask why they had a negative balance and when I explained that it was because they had overdrawn their account they screamed and yelled at me that they couldn’t feed their children because of me, not because they had gone shopping last week and spent all their money. I am 27 and my husband and I are huge savers, but I think that is also because we seem to be about 10 years older mentally and don’t have the same mentality about life as our peers. Whether this interaction was true or not, it is very realistic. Another banking secret is that they post the larger items before the smaller and so the customer has the probability of accumulating more overdraft fees than if the purchases were reversed.
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Sure there may be a difference in mentality but there is also a difference with the times and technology. Things like cell phones, digital cameras, HDTV, computers may not seem like things you have to have, but living in 2009 so the younger generation that are. And they are expensive, very expensive. Expenses are higher in general, taxes are up, and salaries are staying the same and actually for the younger generation a lot of people are getting paid less money just because a job is a job and this is in more expensive cities. In a lot of ways it is harder for a younger person to save, I am in my mid 20′s, I know. And I am probably more on the rare side who looks first to save. Granted I have some very expensive material items and have been on vacations, but I saved for months to pay in full. Sure the money would be better off in a savings account, but our generation wants to work to live, not live to work. Finding that balance is tougher for us now than in the past, but we work on it.
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For the chapter on banking, I’d be interested in advice on how to manage more than one bank/more than one account. I started with savings/checking at one bank, then added another (to split discretionary spending from regular bills) then added a credit union high-interest account, an account for my teenage son, an online savings for emergency fund, etc. One day I discover I have 9 bank accounts (not to mention loans, retirement and college savings). That’s a bit too much!
Do you use more than one account to manage spending? How many is too many? Managing your accounts at different institutions might be a broader topic than just how to select a checking account.
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I think it is, in part, a generational thing. When I got my first promotion in my first job, I started a saving alotment of $50 dollars every two-weeks. I was making $2.50 a hour. I don’t know any 19 year olds now who save $50 a pay check although they are making far more than I did almost 40 years ago.
I was rasied by children of the depression and those lessons stuck with me.
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Actually… I liked the storytelling man on street device used, or whatever you call it. It sounds totally authentic to me. Real event, real person, real advice. In a blog post it seems right at home.
As to spending, it’s amazing how much those ‘little purchases’ add up. Cut that card swipe at starbucks every morning, the swipe at the fast food for lunch or dinner, and go for a walk instead of the movie theater. It’s amazing how much more money is left at the end of the month. Why it’s enough to pay for health care!! (If we even need it after all that walking and healthy eating)
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I guess I’m a lot like that teller. I’m 25, my husband and I have over $20,000 in savings, we pay more than the minimum on his student loans each month, and we made a game out of not spending money frivolously when we moved in together 2 years ago.
Most people our age our not like that – including most of our friends. Sure there are more ‘temptations’, but really, they just think they HAVE to have them. Part of it can be blamed on parents and the way the learned about money growing up, but it’s also just that most people our age apparently need to be shaken hard to realize they really should be looking to save money.
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If you aren’t going to track your spending you need to have a big enough buffer so that you will never overdraw your account!
When I was younger I carried a check register and I entered both checks AND Credit card charges. That insured that I had money to pay the CC, and gave me a much more accurate true balance for my checking account.
-Rick Francis
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@Jonathan (#3)
!?!?!?!?
This conversation isn’t a device. I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouth. This is the conversation we had. Okay, it’s not all verbatim (I jotted notes while we were talking, but had to reconstruct some from memory), but this is absolutely the meat of what we talked about just three hours ago.
Other highlights in my notes:
* “Money tucked at home doesn’t earn interest.” (The banker’s talking about people who stuff cash under the proverbial mattress.)
* He says that young people should see out older mentors: “Find someone who worked a normal job in their 20s and is doing well now. Talk to them.”
Actually, that’s it. Everything else made it into the post.
In other words, I didn’t start with an idea and then build a story around it; this happened to me, so I wrote a post about it. If it doesn’t feel authentic, that’s because I’m a bad writer, not because the banker didn’t say these things.
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I think a commercial bankers opinion might be a bit skewed because he doesn’t have full information. I am definitely a saver, but wouldn’t look like one to a commercial banker because I keep very little cash in my bank account (due to low interest rates). Most of my savings (and paycheck) goes directly into an online savings account or into index funds.
I can see younger people being more comfortable with online banks/online investing, whereas older folks might use the traditional checking/savings account model.
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I used to spend and spend when I was in my 20s and 30s.
I save and save now that I am in my 40s.
At the office I see folks in their 20s going for Starbucks on a daily basis, then go for lunches at some nearby cafe. Us oldsters bring in our lunches and eat in a group in the conference room.
I have learned a lot about the value of money while digging myself out of debt. Now I save and save, and if I spend, I will do so on the really important things in my life. I no longer nickel and dime myself (or loonie and toonie myself) with needless expenditures.
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I save obsessively and I’m in my 20s.
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Sweet:) Loved this write-up!
I am young and I save. Have been saving up since age 12. All due to the fact that I saw my parents talk about money, about savings, about compounding. I saw my mother cook every single meal at home and restricting our trips to restaurants to only special occassions. Thats where I got my education from.
I am strong beleiver of the adage that ‘Real education begins at home”. Children generally mimic what their parents do.
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I think older people tend to be more frugal simply because they grew up in a time where every nickel counted. My grandparents lived through the depression, and both of my parents grew up dirt poor. Every dime they made mattered, so they were very careful with their money — my mom made extra “spending” money by doing loads of laundry for her neighbors at 10 cents a load (this was pre-washing machines, by the way).
Don’t forget, stores didn’t have their own branded credit cards with zero interest for 12 months, they had layaway, where you bought the item and paid for it for 12 months before they would give it to you. People were “forced” to save in order to buy stuff they couldn’t afford.
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I can’t believe that people don’t use registers. Mine goes with me everywhere, since I run my life with my debit card.
The “device,” if device it was, didn’t bother me a bit. It wouldn’t have occurred to me that J.D. would invent an interchange like this. Why should he?
Also in re: the banking chapter … as well as the issue of multiple accounts/banks, a few words on tax accounts, business accounts etc would be useful. I set up business accounts for my teaching income, for the express purpose of paying my self-employment tax out of them, and don’t use ‘em for anything else; whereas DH kind of juggles money indiscriminately between his business and personal accounts (which drives me crazy when I’m doing the taxes). Is there a preferred method, or one that your average man-on-the-street financial advisor would recommend?
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A bank teller? I haven’t been inside a bank since the mid 90′s and I would guess that *most* people under the age of 40 who still do, have financial troubles.
So, in this case, there as an issue of representative population of the sample groups. I’m in my late 20′s and save voraciously; most of it is automated and the rest is in higher interest vehicles.
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I admit that I don’t keep close track of my checking account. I don’t have to, because I never cut it so close that a forgotten purchase could lead to an overdraft. I always have a cushion of thousands of dollars. I do keep a very detailed budget and review all my accounts periodically, but I can’t imagine having to check my balance before making a purchase or paying a bill.
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I disagree with the notion that we have more temptations today as a reason for why people may not be saving as much as previous generations.
Temptations have always existed, just in different forms. Much of what we take for granted today could have been perceived as a temptation in the past.
Our North American culture evolved into a consumer based culture well over one hundred years ago. Advertisements from the late nineteenth, early twentieth century for goods ranging from electric kettles to automobiles are pervasive in print literature. Toys may have been simpler and electronic gadgets non-existant, but that doesn’t mean people didn’t want things.
A multitude of factors go into the decision to purchase — temptation is just the beginning.
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Thanks, JD, this is a really interesting perspective. Personally, I don’t see it that way but I only have my own experience to go by; this guy must deal with hundreds of accounts. In my case, my 51-yr-old husband turns the theory on its head: he hardly qualifies as “young” he buys lattes and fast food, refuses to keep a check register, and overdraws his account a couple of times a year (it used to be a couple of times a month so there is hope!!) basically reminding me of an irresponsible kid. I think it’s because he was the baby of the family, and treated as such; his parents are excellent with money but somehow never taught him anything.
I am younger (not really young) and committed to saving, but it’s not easy. Costs go up faster than wages and there is temptation everywhere. Sometimes I will just buy lunch out for no reason, and I’m not willing to put off trips to visit grandparents who may not be around much longer. On the plus side, I can usually pay cash now instead of going into debt, but it still makes saving hard.
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@Sunandsunshine: I’m the exact opposite, I learned everything I know about money after the age of 25, my parents could never have taught me how to save because they never learned themselves.
Personal finance habits may be different between generations–but for some people it’s older people that don’t know how to save. Many people who are immigrants or members of minority groups are mistrustful of “institutions” (government, healthcare, banks), partly because of language barriers but also because of fears of discrimination (sometimes justified)…whereas their children may have different habits due to acculturation. I’d be interested to know what kind of population your bank teller has for customers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/nyregion/18cash.html?_r=1
http://www.occ.treas.gov/cdd/ReachingMinorityMarkets.pdf
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My Grandmother had a huge savings account. It’s true that she was a saver. But, she had also sold farmland she’d owned for 40 years that had slowly turned into prime suburban real estate. She was also very suspicious of the stock market and most forms of investing.
There probably is a bit of a spending age gap, but a young bank teller might not be a terrific source for determining that. Personally, I think I’m a pretty good saver. My savings are primarily in equities, a rental property, and an online savings account, though. My “brick and mortar” bank only has a few thousand dollars in it most of the time.
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@ ezra #12 good point. All of my savings is in online accounts, which the teller at my local branch would never see.
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I’m going to jump on the devil’s advocate bandwagon and say that this teller might be missing part of the equation working at the desk of a brick and mortar shop.
The internet has unlocked all kinds of money management vehicles that is primarily being taken advantage of by the younger generation.
Where a Baby Boomer might have a a couple financial accounts, a Gen X or Gen Yer might have 20 or more.
It seems like people my age are more willing to spread their money across a number of institutions rather than pledge allegiance to one bank because the internet has made it so easy to manage.
Then again, my observations are just as anecdotal as the bank teller’s.
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While a great post, I disagree that it is a generational issue. I know plenty of people who do not fit the sterotype for both younger and older generations.
Question: will living through the current financial crisis change people’s spending, investing and savings habits the way that living through the Great Depression did?
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I’m thinking it’s not so much a generational thing, but a value thing. Of course one might say that younger people have different values than older people, but over the years I’ve worked with many young adults who place a high value on security. And still others who place a high value on status, which often means spending money to have all the goodies that go along with it. Or adventure, which might mean spending money on experiences that satisfy this value. My hunch is that as we age we come around to the other side a bit: the person who valued security feels a little safer about spending money because of what they’ve accumulated. Or the status seeker begins to moderate spending as the value of security becomes more important. But I think all this flies out the window if you were born during the depression, like my dad, or if your parents were born during the depression and they instilled a real fear in you about having enough money. (And sometimes that fear is so deep it’s operating at an unconscious level.)
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People don’t use check registrars anymore beacuse most people don’t write very many checks anymore. We use our debit cards for everything but I don’t wip out my check registrar to record the transaction every time I use it, but I generally review it on-line once a day and get my registrar up to date. I also link my checking account to a savings account at the same bank in the rare chance I might overdraft there are no fees charged
I think studies will show that the savings rate has been horible for years, whether that savings rate is different between generations is an interesting question – find out for us.
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A teller at my bank would probably say the same thing if he looked at my checking account. Little does he know I’ve got a pile of savings in ING and several investment accounts. My checking account is just a place for money to stop on its way somewhere else. I keep the balance intentionally low. I have an attached savings kept at $1000 while the rest of my savings is kept in higher-yeilding but slightly less liquid accounts. I’m 25. Maybe part of the generational gap is that younger people know how to use the internet. I don’t keep a check register. I also don’t write checks
I track every transaction on Mvelopes. I have a big picture view at Mint.com and track short, midterm and longterm goals. None of this could be known from looking at my checking account statement.
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My parents weren’t savers so my grandmother taught me how to save as a boy. I in turn taught my five children who are now in their twenties and saving like crazy.
It is not really hard to save and makes life a whole lot better. My experience is the same as the teller’s. It’s all the small amounts that kill you. If you want a reasonable return that is safe and liquid try a rewards checking account.
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Some thoughts:
* To some degree, you’re all making a great point about the fact that young people are probably more incline to have online savings. In fact, the main reason I was at the bank today was to pull money out of a brick-and-mortar place to move it to ING. If the teller looked at my accounts, he might conclude I didn’t have much, but that’s because it’s all at ING.
* Still, I think the audience here isn’t a representative sample. I’m glad most of you are saving, but I think you’re the exception, and not the rule.
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@J.D. Sure, I agree with “exception, and not the rule”. Just saying it can’t be know from what the teller sees.
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I think both the main theories here are true – that the older generations tended to save more, AND that people tend to save more as they get older. That is, today’s 25 year old will be saving more when he’s 40 than he is now. But he will still be saving less than today’s 40 year old. (After inflation adjustment of course.)
Also, I’d be willing to bet that older people don’t have $5-6 transactions because they don’t use debit cards.
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Hey J.D., I won’t be the exception! You know the people he was talking about that have a TON of small transactions? That’s me. Welcome to my world. I stop at the convenience store and pick up a soda quite frequently. I’ll also eat out for lunch a few times a week. I’ve always wondered what my bank account would look like if I stopped spending like that. Looks like it’s time to give it a try!
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I agree with Sam about check registrars not really being used anymore. I use my debit card to do almost all my transactions but am careful to check my balance online at least once a week. What the teller said about the transactions not going through right away is correct. Some of my transactions don’t go through till a week and a half later. So you definitely need to treat every transaction as if the money is gone right then and there. Unless you have a significant amount as a cushion in a savings account that is linked to your regular checking account you should always check your balance to make sure what you have. Online banking is super easy, there is no excuse for not knowing what you have. I suggest at least a thousand or more as a cushion in a regular savings account( which I am currently working on) and an online savings account so that you can actually earn some interest on your money. Brick and mortar banks don’t give you a whole lot of interest anyway. Plus there are a ton of online banks that offer decent rates for savings accounts. In general I do think the savings rate has been horrible for years. I am just now starting to save money now that I am in my thirties.
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Fed reserve has data on savings rates. The % of families that save isn’t a lot different based on age ranges. In fact a marginally higher % of people under 35 save than any other age group.
But people in their 40′s and 50′s are able to save much more than people in their 20′s and 30′s. Older people have higher incomes than younger people. Younger people have kids to support and higher expenses. Older people are more likely to own their homes outright or have low mortgage payments from buying a home 20 years ago. So it may easily look like older people save more simply cause they are in a place in their lives where they have more money and have accumulated more. So these older people accumulate bigger bank balances and look like they save more.
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% of families that save per age range as of 2007:
under age 35 = 58.9%
35-45 = 56.4%
45-54 = 55.8%
55-64 = 58.4%
65-74 = 56.7%
75 or older = 49.4%
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I don’t know enough about many people’s finances to generalize, so I’ll trust the bank tellers. But I’m going to state that this is not about generations, but general maturity, that sometimes comes with age.
If our Gen X household looks one generation up, we have one set of boomer parents who ran a law practice for the last 30 years (and still do) who have saved next to nothing for retirement, their house has all sorts of repair needs, and a broken window that lets the cold air in during the winter. The big spender of the couple complains about how expensive the heating bill is. Their home is an empty nest with two occupants, but they have three cars. Two of the three are the same make and model. They did take a transatlantic cruise a few years back, though.
The other set of boomer parents were public schoolteachers for 30+ years. Both retired over 5 years ago. They have pensions as well as several hundred thousand dollars in retirement and taxable accounts. Their house is in very good shape even though it is more than 100 years old. They don’t work, and spend time with their grandkids.
With age usually comes maturity, which is probably the key explanatory variable in this issue. But it is definitely not always the case. The behaviors of the first couple above are well documented in the Millionaire Next Door.
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Money can’t be saved — it can only be invested. If people think this way, they might make better choices with where they put their money.
Saving simply implies “not spending.” Investing, in contrast, implies that money is working for you. There’s a difference.
The same concept applies to time.
If you don’t address these concepts in your book, do not despair! I’ll mention it in mine (as have other authors)!
Thanks for the interesting anecdotal observations. I hope your new book is full of them!
Cheers…
Kent @ The Financial Philosopher
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Regarding “it’s all little things” and that the older folks only have big transactions coming out of their accounts: I know that my parents and many in the older generation do not write checks or use a check card for all their little transactions. My parents just take out spending cash once a week or once a month, to pay for groceries, gas and incidentals, going out to eat, or for a big shopping trip (entailing stops at many stores in the mall, for example). I prefer to charge everything on my debit card so I can track all my spending in a more automated way by downloading my statements and sorting things in a spreadsheet.
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Given my circumstances, I think said teller would probably lump me into the young non-saver crowd. I keep between 1-2K only in brick and mortar checking accounts and have about 70K liquid in online savings.
I’m about two monthly utility bills away from ridding myself of paper checks entirely. It just isn’t for me, though there is a little piece of mind in knowing that checks will be processed and an electronic copy stored for later access.
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Well, back when college used to cost $50 a semester and housing didn’t eat up 50% of your income, I bet it you sure would end up with older people who think they were just more disciplined.
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ha ha, this reminds me of when I was little and thought being the bank teller must be the best job because they trust you to be around much money.
I’m 32 and have been tracking my balances with quicken, etc, for at least 5 years.
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My eldest son definitely fits in the “not saving” group. He gets paid and then spends his money – and overspends too. His younger brother is slightly better although he tends to save until he has enough to buy the latest “thing” that he wants.
My savings record has always been very poor but at 46 I am working hard on this now. I am currently in the middle of a no-spend month (no frivolous spending) and enjoying it immensely. There are far fewer transactions going through on my account, a healthier balance and a warm, fuzzy feeling that I can do this.
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I’m not even 20 and I’ve saved a lot, ever since I first started working at 16 I tried to keep at least a 4-digit number in my savings. I used to buy quite a lot of “stuff” before, too, but now I don’t feel like I need anything at all, and limit my purchases to mostly groceries and experiences (concert tickets).
But, I do seem to be in the minority for my generation, in terms of how much I save :/
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“Young” and “old” are not generations!
I suspect that the generations older than Baby Boomers are heavy savers. They lived through rationing in World War II, and some lived through the Great Depression, and they were shaped by these experiences.
Boomers (in general, there are always exceptions) have not been savers. Boomers generally spoil themselves, and believe the world revolves around them; they dubbed their parents the “Greatest Generation” and their children the “Next Greatest Generation.” They (again, these are generalizations that don’t apply to all) expect to inherit their parents’ wealth and to be supported by their children (e.g. Social Security).
Younger generations, X, and even more Y, may not yet be high savers, for reasons others have mentioned already, but I’d bet they are far ahead of where their parents were at the same point. They see the burden that Boomers will leave, and know that they’ll be paying for it, plus trying to cover their own needs.
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I used to be a bank teller and all of my coworkers were in terrible financial shape. I wouldn’t take advice from one if you paid me
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And the reason some people don’t have “little things” coming out of their accounts is probably just because they take out a couple hundred in cash every so often and spend that on small things instead of using a debit card. Someone who appears to have nothing in savings may have their savings somewhere with better interest (like a credit union).
A bank teller sees a sliver of someone’s financial life, you can’t really much extrapolate from that.
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As for whether or not the ’08-’09 financial meltdown (the Great Recession) will change our behaviors…I look at it as a blessing since it has scared the wits out of us! We have been working VERY hard to beef up our accounts and it’s all because we feared a full-blown economic depression. We’re entering our 40′s and have never before been so motivated to save. This ‘new’ mindset for us is here to stay, BTW. And with the nos. of jobs lost each week, a depression may be looming on the horizon; hold on to your wallets, we may be in for an EVEN MORE bumpy ride!
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Here are some links which explain banking and money:
7 Page article in The Times on Goldman Sachs
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6907681.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1
Article in Rolling Stone on Goldman Sachs
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29127316/the_great_american_bubble_machine
The great American bank robbery:
http://vodpod.com/watch/2040248-how-to-rob-a-bank
How banks gained control of America:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936#
How to fix bad commercial banks that take in money from depositors. Simple. People power. The Dutch brought an arrogant bank to its knees in twelve days:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8323991.stm
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