Work on Your Money: The Missing Manual continues apace. I’ve finished the first seven chapters (happiness, goals, budgets, debt, frugality, income, and banking) and have just begun on chapter eight, which is about credit.
As part of this chapter, I’d love to profile a GRS reader who gets by on minimal credit. Specifically, I’m looking for somebody who doesn’t use credit cards at all, and who can talk about the implications. What are the advantages? What are the drawbacks? Do you know how it’s affected your credit score?
I know I could interview my friend NCN from No Credit Needed, but he’s already in the budgeting chapter! So, if your a “no credit” sort of person (as I used to be) and are willing to let me interview you, drop me a line.
Speaking of NCN, he’s the first stop in this week’s link round-up. Last month, he posted a story of how a silly little experiment helped him get out of debt. He once used online billpay to send a credit card company $5 every day for a month. By doing this, he taught himself that he really could afford saving $5 a day — and he saw the power of the “debt snowflake“.
Jonathan Fields says, “Daddies, don’t let your babies grow up to be strangers.” Getting caught up in making more money so you can provide “nice things” for your family may actually lead you away from what they need most of all: You. This is great advice for all mothers and fathers. Remember that it’s your relationships that matter most, not the soccer, the schools, and the Stuff.
Last week, when I posted the little story about my conversation with a bank teller last week, I never expected it to attract so much attention. “Is there a generation gap in saving?” I wondered aloud. Here are some responses from around the web:
- The Simple Dollar: Is saving for old people?
- Studenomics: Are twenty-somethings not saving money?
- Debt-Proof Living: Why the “younger generation” is more responsible than you think
For the record, I’m not saying there is a generation gap (and, in fact, in the comments Jim shared stats that show saving is about the same for all age groups except the elderly). I was just recounting a conversation!
Here are some more quick hits (man, I’m loaded with links today!):
- Wise Bread: What it really costs to own a home
- Realm of Prosperity: How I was able to build good credit as a college student
- The Oblivious Investor: How much does a financial advisor cost?
- BudgetPulse: The best ways to teach kids about money
One last thing before the carnival summary — I busted a gut looking at Cats4Gold:
Here’s the weekly summary of financial carnivals. These are great places to pick up new tips on saving money:
- Tom at the Canadian Finance Blog hosted Carnival of Personal Finance #230.
- Gather Little by Little shared this week’s Carnival of Money Stories.
- The Festival of Frugality #203 was held over at Domestic Cents.
- Foreigner’s Finances rounded up the Carnival of Twenty-Something Finances.
- The Skilled Investor hosted the Carnival of Financial Planning #114
Final note: The category archives have a new layout. There used to be just 5-10 posts per page (with excerpts), but I found those tedious to wade through when searching for an old article. Now each archive page has a huge list of the posts in that category. For example, here’s the list from the self-improvement category (which is one of my favorites). What do you think? (Or does anyone besides me even use the category archives?)
This article is about Spare Change Wednesday, 18th November 2009 (by J.D. Roth)


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November 18th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
++ for the “What it really costs to own a home” article. Way too many people just compare the monthly rent to the monthly principal + interest payment on a mortgage and think they’re making a straight-across comparison of the costs of renting vs. owning a home. There is so much more to it than that, and people should really be more aware of the total costs before diving into what is almost certain to be the largest purchase of their life!
November 18th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Not me (I’m more of a “no cash” person)! But man, I’m impressed with your productivity!
November 18th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I like the links, but I love the “Cats for Gold”. That is fantastic!
November 18th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I clicked the link to the “What it really costs to own a home” article but was put off by the amount of advertising before I could even start seeing the guts of the article. By my count there are 4 distinct ads before the content of the blog post even begins. When I see blogs like this I they immediately lose credibility since they remind me of those ‘blogs’ that are setup out there to steal other blog content (or excerpts) and wrap it in ads (and attempt to get rich quick!). Given that JD linked to it, it must be a somewhat credible blog, but if it had been linked from Google search result I probably wouldn’t have read it.
Thanks for not bastardizing GRS in this way!
November 18th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Aha! I could have used the categories thing earlier today… (the answer to my question is Why Smart People Make Big Money Mistakes And How To Correct Them: Lessons From The New Science Of Behavioral Economics).
November 18th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
I’ll add to the thanks for the “What it really costs to own a home” article. My boyfriend and I are looking for a new apartment to move into, and he has been wondering loudly about why we “throw away” money for rent instead of buying a house. I’m not against buying a home, but I’ve been trying to explain why it isn’t just a rent v. mortgage issue–this article is perfect for that!
Also, I’m not exactly a no-credit person, but I think I embody a middle ground that shouldn’t be forgotten: I have a credit card, but I pay it off fully every month. I have no debt, and never have. I got my credit card years ago, with the idea that it isn’t for spending money I don’t have–it’s for convenience and building up a good credit score. So far, so good!
November 18th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Thank you for sharing the Cats4Gold link. It was awesome.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Thanks for linking to my article from today.
And Cats4Gold is hilarious! Where’d you find that?
November 18th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
JD,
I haven’t used credit cards for the last three years although I just finished paying off my cc debt from college in October. Not sure if that qualifies for your interview!
I couldn’t access the cost to own a home article- the page says access is denied.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Congratulations on the productivity, looking forward to reading the book. No credit cards for over 4 years, new home this past July with a zero credit score, fully funded emergency fund and loving life.
– John
November 18th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I have not used a credit card in almost 5 years. I posted my yearly budget and expenses on my blog…
http://wendyusuallywanders.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/keeping-track-of-my-finances/
http://wendyusuallywanders.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/the-budgeting-never-ends/
Being disabled and poor is a challenge!
November 18th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I bought a house three years ago. I hadn’t had a credit card in over eight years and no one in the credit world new I existed. I received my mortgage through CHFA the Colorado Housing Finance Authority. My bank helped. I had to go and “make” a credit report based on my monthly bills. I also had to get a letter of reference from my landlord. It was a pretty easy process. I also had to tell them why I didn’t have any credit. That was a quick letter, a simple I got into trouble with credit cards in college so I got rid of them and started living on the if I don’t have it I can’t afford it policy.
I was warned by someone from a different bank that if I went to them for my mortgage I would be paying a higher interest rate since I was “untested.” CHFA does not require this. My interest rates are the same as everyone else who got a loan that week.
Any questions? Let me know.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I can’t access the “What it really costs to own a home”. It keeps saying access denied. I don’t know if it is just me or what.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I love the cats4gold link and the new archive lists. I have accessed the archives in the past, but didn’t use them as much as I might have if they were all listed on one page because it was too much “work”.
As for the ‘real’ cost of owning a home, if you’re a renter you are still paying for most everything listed, you’re just doing it for someone else ~ like hidden fees. If you’re a homeowner and sell your house, a lot of the costs can possibly be recouped ~ if you rent forever, you’re just out a whole lot o’ dough. In many cases the ‘homeowner expenses’ such as lawn care, decorating, window coverings, etc. are not exclusive to homeowners, especially if you rent a single family home vs. an apartment.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:36 am
Cats for Gold: pure genius.
Also, I love the new category archives. As a relative newbie here I often look for old posts. It’s much nicer to have so many posts loading on the first page. Thanks.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:32 am
I’m 25 and have never owned a credit card. Neither has my husband (who’s 26). It started with not wanting to get into debt other than student and car loans, but sometimes it can be such a hassle - ex: no one wants to rent a hotel room to us without a credit card (hi dad, thanks), and for a couple of trips we had to pay in cash/traveler’s checks after borrowing a family member’s credit card to book it. It has negatively affected our credit score I think, since we don’t have any available credit to pull from. Our financial advisor (free thru work benefits woohoo)told us to get a credit card just to start building credit, and to only use it every 6 months on a small purchase. We’re thinking about it since we’re thinking about buying a house and no one wants to give us a low mortgage. We have been looking at houses in the $120K range, and the mortgage companies we’ve looked at won’t give us less than $180. No wonder people are in the situation they are in now with foreclosures and balloon payments.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:45 am
My roommate has no credit cards or student loans. We had to get our credit reports when applying for apartments and his was literally blank. It just showed an address. Email me if you’d like to speak with him. I’m sure he’d love to be interviewed.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:45 am
Two things:
1. I love the rearrangement of the archives. I frequently search for older articles and the search function is really bad! I hardly ever find the article I’m thinking of on the first try, so thanks for the update!
2. My husband never used credit at all. Unfortunately, this meant he never checked his credit report until he met me. He thought that never using credit meant you were “under the radar” but now he has several accounts in collections from unpaid hospital bills because they were sent to the wrong address years ago!
P.S. “Cats4Gold” made my day!
November 19th, 2009 at 7:03 am
My wife and I have been credit free for just over 10 years now. No credit cards and no car payments. We knew right away that we had made the right decision. I will never again apply for credit of any kind!
November 19th, 2009 at 7:12 am
I have started to really buckle down and commit to paying off my debt. I am also trying to cut back this year on Christmas. I wrote about it here:
http://crimsonandclover.typepad.com/crimson-and-clover/2009/11/money-money-money.html
November 19th, 2009 at 7:12 am
I didn’t have to send in any gold to get my cats delivered, but one of them just ran up a huge vet bill. So another potential hidden cost of owning a house is having a yard that people can leave boxes of kittens in.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I am 25 years old and just got my first credit card, which I never use, 3 months ago. People had been telling me for a few years to get one in order to build credit however I never actually got around to it. As mentioned perviously in the comments, it becomes a problem when trying to get a hotel room and other things like that. When I got divorced moved back to California, I decided it was something I should do. It took me over a year to finally qualify for one and even then, it was through my credit union and with a very VERY low limit.
Living without a credit card has both it’s pros and cons and I continue to only make purchases with cash or a debit card but it is nice to finally have a crdit card in case I need it.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:07 am
I like the category posts. I’m a new reader to your site and it has made it easy to go back and read your posts on specific topics. I like the list better than when I enter a topic into the search area that isn’t on your category list. It is much harder to sift through your posts that way than with your list.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Thanks so much for posting a link back to other responses to your post “Is there a generation gap in saving.” I completely understand that it was the bank teller, not you, who came to the conclusion that young people are not saving. I appreciate you raising this issue and asking these questions. You really got me thinking!
November 19th, 2009 at 10:20 am
My husband and I are “credit card free” sort of. I travel for work and even though the main office makes my hotel reservations I have to give them a credit card at check in for “incidentals”. I used to use my debit card but their $50 hold would sometimes last 2 weeks. The hotel says it is my bank, my bank says it is the hotel. I finally opened a secured card with a $300 limit. It makes tracking all of my work expenses easier and I pay it off in full each time I get the reimbursement check from work. And the hotel holds don’t affect our checking account.
The only other time not having a credit card is an issue is that our debit card has a $500 daily limit on it. When I purchased my wedding dress the shop really didn’t want cash so they had to run the charge for the dress over two days. And the jeweler balked when my husband handed him a couple grand in cash for the ring he bought me. Must have thought it was drug money or something. Not that my red neck husband looks anything like a drug dealer — moonshine maybe. There have been a couple of other incidences where it would have been easier to have a credit card with a higher limit on it, but other than that we do fine with out credit cards.
With my husband working in the mortgage industry we see how credit reports affect so many things, and how quickly credit reports can be affected. We both had some “difficult” years before we met and are working to fix all of that. It was credit cards that caused those difficulties and neither of us want to go back. But we realize that we need to have something reporting to our credit report each month otherwise those abysmal numbers will just stay there, greatly affecting our rates when we decide to refinance our home for a small addition we want to make in the next few years. Our mortgage reports to his as he purchased the home before we were married. I have the secured card and my car payment. Even though I plan to pay off the car earlier than what I financed, I am not paying it off quite as quickly as I want the payment reporting until we decide to refinance and then I will have the mortgage reporting to mine also.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I have not had a credit card in 12 years and I do not miss it. In return, I have money in the bank, great cash flow and restful nights.
btw, what does it takes to be included in your link roundups?
November 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Hey J.D.,
We’re living totally without credit cards and just started doing so over the course of the last 11 months.
I would love to share the experience with you and GRS readers alike.
Cheers!
November 19th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
My boyfriend is 32 and never had a credit card. No one knows he exists, and he never gets any junk mail. Uncle Sam paid for his college since he served in the Navy. He paid his new car in cash a few years ago and we still rent. He rarely shops online, but when he does it’s with his only debit card, which comes from a small local bank. He rarely pays purchases with the debit card, unless it is a big purchase like grocery or TV.
It amazes me how far he has come along without using a credit card. Apparently he learned the thrift lessons from his grandparents (and I didn’t until later in life).
I guess when it’s time to buy a place, it will probably be based on my credit. We’ll see…
November 19th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
I’m a no credit person. I haven’t used a credit card in almost 13 or 14 years.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
My friend had no debt, no credit card, paid by cash or debit card, bought her condo outright. She could not get financing when she wanted to renovate her condo, not even from her bank. No history = no credit for her. Eventually she followed her bank’s suggestion that she get and use a credit card for a few months, then reapply. It worked.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Hi!
Since you are looking for people who do not use credit cards, first off, you can ask almost any European about that. Most people I know in Europe don’t have a cc. I’m sure you can find some supporting statistics on that.
Also, here is a guest poster on ERE who says he didn’t have a credit card for years:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2009/11/my-journey.html
Quote from the 4th paragraph: “Well, until I got married five years ago, I never had a credit card.”
November 20th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Mr ERE himself here. I was born in Europe and I did not have a CC until I moved to the US. I figured it would be useful to get one to build up that so-called credit score everybody is talking about. I have no idea what mine is. I was even advised to keep a balance to build it up further. This sounds silly, so I never did that.
In Europe, if you want a loan, the bank will look at your assets and your income; not your history of buying things on credit. If it ever comes time to buy a place, I will buy it in cash anyway.
I will say this for credit cards though. If you ever shop online, never use a debit card unless it has some kind of protection. The database of one of the merchants I have bought from got hacked and some scumbag (pardon my french) started using my card to order all kinds of silly stuff in my name. The CC company cleaned everything up. I only had to deal with some obstinate companies (one I had to call 4 times) to cancel some of the subscriptions perp had signed me up for.
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pm
When I moved to Australia I became credit free, but not by choice. I was always a put everything on my rewards card and pay it all off at the end of the month. I know it doesn’t work for everything, but it worked for me. Then I moved and realised that I have no credit here in Australia. I was told to try and build credit and maybe in a year I would qualify. Additionally here debit visa cards aren’t standard, so my ATM card cannot be used online or at many other locations. Its amazing how difficult some things are without a credit card. You can’t book a vacation or even a day trip without going way out of your way to a local office and often times paying extra fees as a result. I understand having a credit card and not wanting to use it often, but I wonder how people function completely without them.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 am
A couple years too late for me. I gave in to credit cards a while ago when I learned of cash back rewards. I still pay them off in full every month.
Prior to that, I used a Visa debit card for all purchases and had absolutely no idea what my credit score looked like. I guess a drawback is that I couldn’t spend more than I had. Maybe that’s a positive also.
I once had my debit card cloned and the bank quickly identified that large purchases were being made 1000 miles from my home and I had no liability for those.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:00 am
I don’t have any credit cards now. In the past, I had several and ran into troubles with them. I have a really tough time with money and controlling my purchases. I don’t plan on having a credit card anytime in the near future, if at all because I am very nervous that I would rack up large amounts of debt again.
I’ve found that I can use my debit card for pretty much everything. *but* I don’t travel much (thus not needing to incur large travel expenses ) nor do I make any large-item purchases, such as TVs, etc. My partner does have a credit card though, and when our family took an extended vacation last year, he used it to pay for plane tickets, theme park fees, etc.