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Your friends and family influence you. They affect the way you view life. If your friends are frugal, it’s easier to be frugal yourself. But if they’re wrapped up in consumerism and materialism, and can be difficult to resist the urge to join them. It’s only natural to want to fit in.
Rob wrote yesterday to ask how to handle a situation where he wants to lead a simple life, but those around him aren’t supportive. How can he cope with peer pressure? Here’s his story:
Since we try to live frugally, we don’t have a television or video games or any other electronic toys in our house. We try to spend time as a family, talk to each other, read books, try to help my wife in cooking etc.
My colleagues at work tell me that I live a miserable life, and I don’t give my family “materialistic life pleasures”. Those sort of words hurt me a lot. We don’t have a TV at our house and my colleague makes fun of this thing all the time.
How should I respond to people like this? Should I even pay attention to them? I don’t want to spoil my relationships at work. I’ll bet a lot of your readers experience the same thing. What are your thoughts?
It can be tough when you’re trying to save, trying to focus on the simple things, and everyone else around you seems to value Stuff. But materialism doesn’t lead to happiness. Though having money might increase your happiness, wanting money (and things it can buy) almost certainly will not. “Indeed, not only does materialism not bring happiness,” writes Sonja Lyubormirsky in The How of Happiness, “but it’s been shown to be strong predictor of unhappiness.”
Rob needs to ask himself some questions: “Am I happy? Is my family happy?” If he can answer yes to both of these, then what does he care what other people think? If he continues to struggle, he should remind himself of a few ways to cope with peer pressure:
- Trust your instincts. If you’re sure of your choices and the reasoning behind them, say so. When you get pressure, explain that you’re happy just the way you are. Be confident. Be proud to be a non-conformist.
- Laugh it off. When your friends and family get on your case, make a joke and move on. Don’t let their opinions rattle you.
- Find other friends. This isn’t always possible (or desirable). Rob may be stuck with his co-workers eight hours a day. But if your friends are pressuring you into a lifestyle you don’t want, hang out with other friends. True friends support each other; they don’t tear each other down.
To live happily as a non-conformist in a world filled with peer pressure, you have to learn to ignore everybody. Do what you believe is right, and to hell with what other people think.
To me, Rob’s life doesn’t sound miserable. It sounds idyllic. It’s the sort of thing Kris and I aspire to: spending time together, talking and reading. I’m proud of what he’s doing.
Do you have financial trolls in your life? How do you handle them? How do you cope with peer pressure?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Consumerism, Real-Life, Relationships Friday, 20th November 2009 (by J.D. Roth)
November 20th, 2009 at 5:18 am
TV is definitely a loss of time. We don’t have one either and we never feel to miss something. Time spent in front of a TV is time gone forever. It’s such an unproductive (in-)activity to watch TV. So it is very wise not to have one.
Keep up your frugal lifestyle.
I don’t talk about money with other people than my family. Opinions differ to much and everybody has to do what’s best for him.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:26 am
I have a co-worker that bought an iphone a month or two ago. He seems to take great delight in showing it off and even saying “You want one don’t you?” and other taunting things. I have an itouch I bought for myself for xmas, it does what I want. I also have a cell phone, I pay $60 a year for service (grandfathered in plan with Virgin Mobile). Two other co-workers have also joined in and picked up iphones. This seems to just give more ammo to the original co-worker “See, everyone else has one, you want one, don’t you?”
Want? Yes. Need? Nope. I spend a year what they spent a month on a cell phone. I almost never use my phone, it is there for emergencies and when I travel. Why would I spend that much a month on something that does the same as something I already have and wouldn’t use enough to justify the monthly cost? Add into the mix a chance for work to go away next year, no way would I commit to a two year contract or anything else that would cost me money that I couldn’t get out of if the situation changed.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:34 am
We don’t have TV either. (We have a TV, but no TV as such–it’s basically just a screen for viewing DVDs.) And I’m sure you’ll see numerous other people here in the comments in a similar position.
My advice: Work to find other people whose values more closely match your own, and work to add them to your social circle. Once you have enough people reinforcing your choices, the ones disagreeing with them won’t bother you.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Why does the opinion of your co-workers on your personal life matter? You’re happy living how you are.
I’m a frugal guy, and I drive a Corolla when I can afford a Mustang. I don’t because I don’t need it. Whenever it comes up, I just spin the conversation around and ask them how much they blow in insurance and gas alone, not counting the car payment. If they push more, we start going into their savings, if it exists. By this time, they suddenly remember an important “phone call” they need to make. They like to push about the coolest toys, but are very uncomfortable talking salary/finances.
Basically, change the subject into something you know they’re going to be uncomfortable about.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I love posts like this! Our society has made us believe that having debt and buying things we cannot afford is normal. The mere fact that we live simple lives, save money and desire financial freedom is often seen as weird. I too have been laughed at, and so have my children. As a single mom of three we live a very simple life. We have two TVs and one that is so old it still has the vertical knobs. The other is a 13 inch TV with no cable. We rarely watch TV, because we are spending time together, eating dinner together and reading together.
The way, I deal with financial trolls is simple. Become even more educated in what you do, leave financial magazines & books on your desk at work and inform and educate them about how to achieve real wealth. Also refuse to allow others to take up space in your mind and your time. More importantly, see the vision of where you were going and allow them to help you get there faster. One of the things that I say every single day when I walk into work, is I am another day closer to being debt free.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:52 am
This is a great question and line of discussion… people tend to flock together not simply because of shared interests but also for reasons of shared tolerances. Obese people rarely hand out with muscle-heads or marathon runners. Their interests and toleraces are not aligned.
I think the same principles apply to our finances. A little ribbing amongst friends is not what I’m talking about, but those filled with rationalizations for mountains of consumer debt are not likely good fits for those trying to manage a goal oriented budget.
Good stuff JD
November 20th, 2009 at 6:06 am
A coworker recently saw me in my car, knocked on my window, and said, “You’re too young to drive a car like that!” (I’m 26.) I told her that I was too young to be in debt and drove away. That response seemed to do the trick!
When I get frustrated by the comments, I remember the amount of student loan debt that I have been able to pay off. I also remember the downpayment I was able to make on my modest home. And, I dream about the car I’ll buy (w/ cash) in 2015 when I am DEBT FREE!
November 20th, 2009 at 6:09 am
I don’t have a cell phone. People are shocked that I do not have one and I catch flack for my lack of one quite a bit.
I use the ‘laugh it off’ method, e.g., ‘Why would I want a cell? Then people could find me anytime!” etc.
If it is a friend who seems worried (for safety reasons or somesuch) I explain in a bit more detail about how I don’t want the cost of the phone, don’t like the electronic leash concept, etc. etc.
Both methods work to some extent. My friends accept my lack of a cell phone as another one of my odd ways (no TV, old cars, tiny house packed with books and tools, no pets, etc.) and the joking normally works for the casual encounter.
Besides, almost everyone has a cell so normally if one is needed someone can produce one.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:11 am
Sometimes I face peer pressure about that sort of things… and I prefer to laugh at it. They are happy talking endlessly about their expensive new computer?, I start joking about how much they paid to do the same things their old computer already did. They are bragging about their new TV?, just ask them if they use it to see the same dumb shows.
If you are confident about your lifestyle, you shouldn’t be trying to justify it to others: they don’t want to understand it. So, instead make them justify their lifestyle: often, they live in that way not because they want to, but because they were forced to. But remember Oscar Wilde: ‘if you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you’.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:11 am
Reminds me of the time a co-worker told me I was being close-minded and unwilling to make sacrifices for my daughter.
The reason? I said I’d probably never bring my family to Disney World. She simply couldn’t wrap her mind around the idea that kids could enjoy going other places, and felt that I would be denying my daughter an “important experience.”
November 20th, 2009 at 6:21 am
It seems to me that these conversations on personal finance blogs always turn into a needs vs. wants conversation. I have many things that I wanted and have not needed and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Some people can afford wants and buy wants, some people buy wants they can’t afford and others can afford wants and choose not to buy them. This topic isn’t really about frugal living or excess living, but about people who make themselves feel better by devaluing others. Simple answer to this question is avoid those who like to devalue others for whatever reason they find in their minds to justify doing so.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Ditto to all this. We shut off our satellite and gave our TV away years ago. Before very long, we realized that neither of us wanted nearly as much stuff as we once had. Rob’s co-workers are buying the hype, and their TV-advertising habits just feed the hysteria. We still watch what we want, but on Hulu or on-demand with the minimum Netflix subscription. Or we actually wait for the DVD to be released. Sometimes we read books in the evening, or read to each other.
Because we “live big, spend small,” our finances weren’t devastated when I was laid off, nor were they crushed when, three years previously, I had decided to work only part-time. Now, we are both in a position to try something completely new with our lives - live a dream - because we didn’t need expensive toys or an oversized house.
I think the hardest part may be the low blows about “depriving” the family; it would be for me. Plus, kids always think they’ll be happier if they can watch all the TV their eyes can suck in. SO not true. Rob should keep in mind that his kids will remember the time they all spent together. They will grow to be people who know how to be with other people in a satisfying way. They will have social skills. They will learn to be happy people, and that’s just not something you can buy for a kid.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:29 am
The coworkers may be jealous. Maybe, somewhere in the back of their mind, they’ve dreamed of living more simply but haven’t had the courage or family support to pull the trigger. I was like this about eating meat…when I met a vegetarian, I always felt like *I* was being judged or something since I felt guilty/uncomfortable with my own habits (though I would never say anything rude or snarky to them!).
Whatever the cause, I would pity them and whatever’s going on in their lives that makes them so sour and unable to be open-minded. They must go through life very frustrated that not everyone makes the choices they do.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:32 am
AC has a good point - many people (usually wrongly) feel “judged” when they come into contact with someone who is defying societal norms.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:36 am
I’m of the same mentality as many here. We have the Device but no Programming. We’ve lived this way for +7 years now. The savings in $ and time allowed me to pursue other hobbies.
It really does come down to education. And some of those people really don’t want to be educated. I really like the idea of changing the subject to financial matters. I find the same reactions as Steven. But don’t be snide about it, be open and helpful. You’ll find a few that really do want to learn. If you help even that one person it’s worth it and hopefully we can start to change this Social Mentality one person at a time.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:41 am
I think anyone who has self control over spending in some area of their life will hear criticism of a person who does not. If it’s not electronics, it’ll be about something else. The list is endless.
Consider it a compliment. You’re doing something most people don’t think they’re capable of.
Regarding kids, I read that the 3 things kids remember from childhood are: family vacations, time outdoors, and meals/cooking with parents. So, yes, I’ll spend money on a canoe or a vacation before I buy a new car, bedroom set or video game.
And Foxii II is right on. We are stingy in some areas, but not in others. I still consider myself frugal because any expense extravagent or frugal is paid in cash not with debt.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:42 am
I think the best way to handle this kind of stuff is just to be good natured about it and say “it works for me.” Trying to lecture about the joys of frugality and the evils of television will ultimately feed the fire.
There may be co-workers who will approach you to find out more about the choices you make and what the advantages are, and you can engage them at that time.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am
… more time for sex = Reply win. Awesome response.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am
Kristen’s method bears repeating… I thought this was a great technique! Here’s an excerpt from post #6 above:
A coworker recently saw me in my car, knocked on my window, and said, “You’re too young to drive a car like that!” (I’m 26.) I told her that I was too young to be in debt and drove away. That response seemed to do the trick!
Hahhahhaaaaa! Alot of great tips on this board.
Parents are often trolls… my mother is a lovely woman, but often clueless about real world frugal decisions … here’s an example: DH and I had just replaced the leaky, 25 yr old fridge with a new, scratch-and-dent (barely visible), Energy-Star fridge/freezer. Stainless steel front, black sides. Her comment was that we could buy stainless steel PANELs for the sides; my response was that we were happy with it as it was, but if she wanted to buy stainless steel panels for us and have them installed, she should knock herself out. Or something to that effect, tho’ more tactfully. Got a laugh out of all family members present. And, d’you know what? I think she “got it”, for a moment. Gotta love ‘em…
November 20th, 2009 at 6:53 am
People like that make me sick. Ugh.
I completely agree with the comments above - I’m guessing most people who give others a hard time because of a certain life choice (like living frugally) feel threatened, because maybe deep down they’re wondering if they’re the fools for being pawns of a consumerist and TV-based culture.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:55 am
great topic JD. On the specific topic of a tv, it can be such a drain - sure it’s fun to mindlessly flip channels sometimes - or I love to find a movie on. But, it can be addictive and waste precious time.
On the peer pressure side - I find that my wife and I come at this from different angles, and it seems to be harder for her to (quoting Dave Ramsey) “live like no one else”. But, we are learning and being candid with each other and our spending habits and being honest in tracking and saving has been a huge help. Can’t let peer pressure blind you from seeing your financial situation for what it really is.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:56 am
In the last year or so I’ve really had to watch myself for not judging her either. It’s a little too easy to disdain her excessive lifestyle to make myself feel better about my frugal one. I think we both fear each other’s judgment — and once I realized that things have been better.
How do I deal with trolls? I’m honest about my goals — namely saving for a house, building an emergency fund and funding retirement. Thanks to the downturned economy, people are more understanding these days.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:01 am
DON’T WORRY ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK ABOUT YOU!!! YOU are the only one who takes care of YOUR family and it doesn’t matter what OTHER people’s opinions are about you and your situation because ultimately you are living YOUR life and they are living THEIRS.
One way to quiet the masses is by asking them if they would like to make a contribution to your household (by buying the crap or paying for a service), if they say no, politely tell them to mind THEIR business and keep all opinions to themselves. Remember…jealousy and misery loves company!!!!
LIVE YOUR LIFE AND LET OTHERS LIVE THEIRS!!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 7:01 am
“…because we didn’t need expensive toys or an oversized house.” Roxanne, #9
Well, nobody needs them, it’s what some people want. And I don’t see why those people, who want something and can afford it, get thrown in the same pile sometimes as those who want it and can’t afford it. Is there something wrong for being inherently human and wanting to have things you enjoy? Sometimes that’s the way it seems to me.
Also, some frugal-minded people can be just as hard on someone who chooses to spend money, on a WANT. *Gasp!* No matter how many coupons you clip or dollars you save, some people find it horrible that you could ever succumb to materialistic possessions. Or at least that’s how it feels sometimes. (Or it’s always assumed that you had to go into debt for it, couldn’t afford it, etc etc)
Just sayin’, neither side is perfect. Thankfully, this is one of the few money blogs that doesn’t seem to give off that vibe.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:04 am
I may be in a different corner then the previous posters. I do have tv and a monthly cable bill - but I have it because it is something I use as I love to watch sports. I realize to some people athletic events aren’t exactly an academic event, but there is more to it then a lot of people know - and more websites analzying sports using statistical analysis by the day - something I’m also very into.
But that doesn’t mean I think everyone should automatically have a nice tv with cable, or an iPhone. People should spend smartly on things that make them happy…if something isn’t for them, there is no reason spend it.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:04 am
I love the clever responses in #6 and #14!
I have run into different forms of peer pressure three times in the past two weeks, and in one case, I’m sore tempted to cave.
The first case came up at a marketing seminar I attended. One of the speakers was talking about how you can make use of augmented reality, which means that if you have a fancy cell phone, you can get an app that will allow you to point your phone at things, as if you were taking a picture, and little messages will pop up. The thing is, while I do have a cell phone, it is an old, basic prepaid phone. I can’t take pictures or download apps. As I sat there, I wondered why I am in this business. (I market for a nonprofit and don’t feel guilty at all about what I’m selling, but I felt odd about the idea of using a tool that I myself can’t use and that takes advantage of technology people don’t need.)
Then I attended a school cookout with my daughter. We were supposed to bring roasting sticks, but I don’t own any. Honestly, I did not know roasting sticks were a requirement for life. I grabbed a stick off the ground for our hot dogs and marshmallows, but my daughter refused to use it, because everybody (this is no exaggeration… truly, everybody… there had a long metal roasting stick they were using). Somebody ended up loaning us a roasting stick, but it made me think: “They can’t be that expensive. Maybe I’d better buy some next summer!” (See. Peer pressure can be hard to resist!)
Finally, I was chatting with another parent at the same event and mentioned that one of the attractions of my mom’s house for my daughter is that my mom has cable, and we don’t. He was amazed and asked what my kid did for entertainment! The good thing is that I may have provided some positive peer pressure for him, though I have to say, it is probably harder to give up cable than to never have it in the first place, so I don’t know that my conversation with him will cause him to go home and cancel his subscription!
November 20th, 2009 at 7:07 am
I love my TV. I DVR everything so I can skip the commercials. I get the whole ridicule thing that was being talked about, but I get it with my vacations to Disney World (why are you going again) This is the one splurge we do each year, we do without on many “things” like eating out, buying mindless crap and such. We make use of items until the finally need replacing! It is fun to see how much we can save, Just not eating dinner out once a week pays for our yearly vacation. So I kind of know what you are going through.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:23 am
I’d approach this from the same standpoint that Colin Beavan (aka No Impact Man) often espouses. By living more consiously and deliberately, by spending time with your family and friends rather than fictional ones on TV, we can be healthier, happier, more financially secure, and yes, have more time for sex. Comment 14 by Minderbender is the ultimate quick come-back against critical peers like that.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:25 am
This is a tough one. I actually just blogged about this, as certain members of my family are very materialistic and have high expectations.
I think you just need to remember that it’s your life, your values, and your happiness that matters.
Just ignore what they say, or give it back to them. Throw out random stats…like the average couple spends only 12 minutes per day in conversation. 12 MINUTES!!! I bet the connection you have with your family is more meaningful than that!
November 20th, 2009 at 7:28 am
As a kid my family didn’t have a TV either. This certainly made me the odd-one-out at school, but I think it was really one of the best things about my childhood. I read a TON, and I’m still a voracious reader today, played board games with my family, spent a lot of time outdoors, bike riding, playing in the park, etc. This sort of thing may not be the “norm”, but it’s a great thing, that I hope you feel good about.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:29 am
I wonder if Rob’s coworkers are disgruntled because Rob isn’t like them. There is this need in people to justify their actions and purchases because other people do it. By Rob not owning a TV and living a much simpler life, he is showing them there is another way to live, and they may not like that answer.
I agree with the comments from #4 and #6 as well. Peer pressure is caused by people wanting to justify their actions by getting others to join with them.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:30 am
http://ultimatemoneyblog.com/getting-made-fun-of
I wrote about this! I experience the same thing at work. People make fun of me because they think I am cheap and because I am 26 and LOVE knitting! I need to adapt the “to hell with them attitude”!
November 20th, 2009 at 7:31 am
I usually really enjoy reading the comments on this website, but today I found the tone to be a little pompous and self-congratulatory.
It really does come down to education. And some of those people really don’t want to be educated.
…maybe deep down they’re wondering if they’re the fools for being pawns of a consumerist and TV-based culture.
We all make choices. I happen to enjoy watching television. Am I uneducated? No, actually I have a Master’s degree. Am I a pawn of the consumerist tv-based culture? I should hope not - I am a pretty minimal person - I don’t even have a cell phone.
I think some of the comments here have slipped over that line where they stop defending their own choices and start attacking others’ choices.
Just sayin’…
November 20th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Great comments today, everyone.
I want to make one thing clear: I’m not trying to judge anyone who does watch television. I often jokingly tell Kris that one of my goals is to be able to sit down and watch TV every evening. It’s true that by not watching TV, I’m able to be more productive, but by being so productive, I’m not able to watch TV. Does that make sense? Anyhow, I’m somewhat envious of people who have time to watch TV every night. Kris hates it when I say this, though.
My point is this: Do what works for you. And don’t let what other people say about your lifestyle make you feel bad about it. The original version of this post had a great quote from John T. Reed about making sacrifices when you’re young so that you don’t have to make them when you’re older. I think that Rob, who asked the question, is making sacrifices now so he doesn’t have to do so when he’s older. Maybe I’ll make a separate post out of that for the afternoon.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:34 am
I think Rob should look to his family for clues about whether he’s doing the right thing. If the kids can still giggle uproariously over how a card game goes or express how cool seeing animals in nature is or romp around in a park until they’re exhausted, seems like the words of his co-workers will carry less weight. Does it feel better for family members to be in separate rooms watching their individually owned TVs or video games or computers - or does it feel better for family members to be playing Twister together?
The other card to play is the “well, by living this way, we get to retire in X years” where X is shorter than the average retirement timeframe. Not nice, but sometimes satisfying.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:35 am
To answer the question of how Rob should respond to his co-workers depends so much on his personality. I tend to be a more agressive, conflict person, meaning that I don’t have concerns about hearing other people’s comments and making some of my own without offense taken. However, some people are more shy about such things.
Answering from my perspective, when someone asks why I don’t have an iPhone or only have one car for our family I usually respond with a question - “Why?”
With that question they now have to provide a reason that this item or activity is so important. When they do provide some sort of reason I simply dismiss it with a statement like, “That’s not really for me.” They have had their opportunity to explain and you may dismiss their reasoning with a basis that they cannot really refute - it’s not for me. That type of response tends to end the discussion if you want it to. When they show off their new toy, I check it out and then usually go “Cool” and leave it at that. With the taunt, “Don’t you want one?” again the question, “Why?” they will get tired of telling you after a while and the taunting will end.
You don’t need to change friends. Your lifestyle will change your friends eventually. Family is harder but the same technique works for them as well and time will convince them eventually that your path was the better one for what you want from life.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Why is reading a book assumed to be a worthwhile use of one’s time, while watching TV is perceived as a mindless, wasteful, lazy pursuit? I’m talking fiction novels here.
I never really understood the arrogant, intellectual snobbery that considers reading to be some sort of altruistic, intellectual endeaver, while looking down their noses at the knuckle-draggers who prefer to watch TV.
Newsflash: They’re BOTH just mindlessly absorbing the products of someone else’s imagination. Even J.D. just did it, with this very post! He went on a rant about how the lack of a TV is “something to be praised.” Then in the very next paragraph, he says reading with Kris is something he “aspires to.” Why is reading with your wife a noble pursuit, but watching TV with your wife an utter waste of time?
And don’t give me the “advertisements” line. We all know DVRs have rendered commercials moot.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:46 am
People make similar comments about our family. One thing I do to help ward off silly or mean comments is to send pictures of our family doing fun, interesting things to work with my husband. He posts them in his cubicle, and it’s hard to argue with adorable, smiling kids. It also serves as a reminder to him why we live the way we do.
It isn’t always possible to change the people you are around (at work or otherwise), but it helps us to have positive reminders of our chosen lifestyle.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I can only watch DVDs on my TV, so I’m kind of in the same boat. People just look at me like I have three heads when I tell them that I don’t watch a certain show or whatever. When they ask “but why don’t you have TV?” I’ll respond with “Oh, I’m so busy with gardening, raising my daughter, working on the house, cleaning, baking, knitting, blogging, and getting my second job up and running, that I just don’t have time!”
November 20th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I don’t see how one can have much time for tv, if one is actually spending time with their family, doing daily chores, and daily working out.
I watch about an hour to 2 hours per day during the week, most of it is pre-record and watched while I’m doing something else.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:50 am
I applaud Rob for living how he wants to and not caving to peer pressure.
As far as a response, I’d keep it simple and like others have said don’t be negative back to them. If they say something like: “Wow how do you live without TV, you must be miserable?!”
Just reply something like - “thanks for your concern, but we’re fine. If TV makes you happy that’s great, but I just don’t get the entertainment out of it.”
We’re ending our satellite TV next month when our contract is up - the $75 monthly fee just isn’t a good value for us anymore. We’re going to buy a DVD recorder to replace the DVR, but after that initial $100 or so expense we’ll put that money towards other goals. One of those goals is to read at least 1 book per month instead of mindlessly watching TV.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Maybe I’m just too much of a professor these days…
But when someone ridicules or questions a choice I’ve made, I treat them like I would my students and answer it as a question, thoughtfully and honestly and in a way that in my classroom would provoke discussion and further debate, no matter how the question was actually intended.
So regarding the TV (which even my mom asks about), I just explain that we get the shows we want to watch on Netflix and Hulu and Comedy Central and we’re so behind on our TV watching we can afford to wait for new shows to finish a season without being cancelled and come out on dvd etc. etc. etc. Usually this ends up asking about specific shows that are usually available on Hulu, which is eye-opening for them. (My mom still thinks we’re depriving our son of Saturday morning cartoons no matter how many times I explain that the paradigm has shifted and netflix can supply his general need to talk about Dora the Explorer.) Your reasons are probably different, but can be explained in a nonjudgmental way.
I think the big trick here is the same as with my students… if you don’t give a reaction you’re not as much fun to tease. If you answer their questions with respect, their future dealings are more respectful. Or maybe I’m just really boring these days.
Note: just read the section on financial trolls… this method probably works better in person than online. Though I have seen many interactions where JD rationally engaged a troll and they DID come to an agreement, or at least a better understanding and had an illuminating conversation. I bet the conversations that were just a troll trolling seem to be more available mentally because they caused more emotion.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:52 am
I think the #1 piece of advice here is to start surrounding yourself with people outside of work that identify with your ideals.
You may be stuck with your coworkers, but you’re not stuck with your friends outside of work. Having supportive people around you will strengthen your resolve and make the teasing easier to deal with at work.
Whatever they say or do, remember to take the high road. It might feel good to fire back at them, but it doesn’t really accomplish anything except to make you temporarily feel better.
Be strong and sure of yourself in your resolve to live a simpler life. The energy and happiness that you exude by doing what’s right for you will be evident to everyone.
Your coworkers will “get it” they just may not be able to “deal with it.”
Also, part of living a simple life is allowing yourself the freedom from a toxic job. Maybe your coworkers are all uncomfortable because they’re stuck in jobs they hate trying to feed their unending desires? If things continue to get worse, maybe you have an emergency fund that could keep life moving while you look for something else?
November 20th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Kevin -
Given the language you have used, I doubt anything I say will change your mind. Personally, I don’t think watching TV is bad in small doses (and I do have a TV and cable).
I’m going to disagree with you on what constitutes each experience though. The primary difference I see between watching TV and reading a book is that reading is not actually mindless, since you have to use your imagination to create the characters and scenes described in the book (even if you’re not consciously aware of doing so). TV (or movies) create(s) all of those for you, not really requiring much mental investment on your part.
Again, I’m not going to claim TV is evil, but I will claim that reading tends to stimulate the imagination, while watching TV generally doesn’t.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:55 am
“My ***colleagues*** at work tell me that I live a miserable life, and I don’t give my family “materialistic life pleasures”. Those sort of words hurt me a lot. We don’t have a TV at our house and my ***colleague*** makes fun of this thing all the time.”
Interesting change of noun here. Reading between the lines, it sounds like it may just be one person who is really bugging you, but it feels like everyone is.
Whenever someone makes a life change that another person is uncomfortable with, the uncomfortable person will often make strange comments. It’s probably indicative of that person wanting to make a change but not really knowing how to.
Knowing this, you can pretty quickly shrug things off and/or make light of it. It’s knowing where they come from that really helps matters.
Last year, I went pescetarian (veggies + fish/seafood only; no “land animals”) for a few months to try to fix my diet. I was surprised at the backlash I got! Then I looked closely at the two people who had been the hardest on me, and realized they had something in common: they were both overweight.
My guess is they felt out of control in their own diets and were uncomfortable with someone near to them making choices that they weren’t comfortable making. They wanted to make a change, but weren’t sure what to do, so instead they simply teased the person who had made a choice. (Note: When I discovered the root of my problem was Celiac disease, their teasing instantly stopped. It was the fact that I had made a choice that was important to them, not the diet itself.)
In the same vein, I tend to harass J.D. on a regular basis about not pushing the business side of his blog harder. But in reality, there is a lot of J.D.’s life that I seek to emulate, and a lot of the harassment stems from me wanting to make my own blog better.
-Erica
November 20th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Foxie || CarsxGirl Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 7:01 am
“…because we didn’t need expensive toys or an oversized house.” Roxanne, #9
Well, nobody needs them, it’s what some people want. And I don’t see why those people, who want something and can afford it, get thrown in the same pile sometimes as those who want it and can’t afford it.
I’m sorry I made it sound as though people can’t or shouldn’t spend their money as they see fit. Speaking only for myself, once I had expensive toys and an oversized house, I found they didn’t make me as happy as I had expected them to, even though I had wanted them and could afford them. I found for myself that having more time and freedom made me much happier than I would have anticipated.
It seems that a person can have a simple life regardless of their bottom line. And, certainly, wanting what one can’t afford can create more stress than wanting what one can afford.
I was lured over to the “simple side” by No Impact Man, and I enjoyed the anecdotes that indicated his family was living a more fulfilling life as a direct result of their new-found simplicity. They could afford the stuff they wanted, but ultimately found it didn’t make them any happier having it. That’s pretty much what I would have wanted to express to the original Rob.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:57 am
I can handle peer pressure. I don’t care about what other people have. Bluntly and decisively refuse to be a part of their reindeer games. Some of the suggestions here are good ones. Shrug your shoulders and say “I really don’t care.” Use the “Why?” question. But if they persist in harassing you, very calmly and politely say “John, f— off before I have to report you to management.” That should get them off your back.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Maybe he needs to think of his coworker’s joking in a different way. Where I work, everyone jokes around with everyone else. For me it’s the fact that I’m very short. “Hey, you need a hat with a flag on it so we can see you over the cubicle wall!” For another guy, it’s the fact that he’s a vegetarian, “Hey, how can you wear leather shoes if you don’t eat meat?” And so on. Maybe they secretly envy him for having a simpler, happier life with more family time? Yes, I’m always the optimist, but maybe they are not really taunting him. Maybe he is just sensitive to it because even though he knows he is doing the right thing, he feels he is going against the “norm”.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Nothing is a waste of time if you enjoy it. Peer pressure comes in at waves and depending on the situation depends on how it affects. I have succumbed to peer pressure in the past in social situations but am better with financial obligations.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:02 am
I just rely on self-esteem and my head. My husband is a doctor and I have the privileged of not working. Obviously we’re pretty well off, but not so much that we can just spend money freely. One of my hobbies is playing tennis (alot). Needless to say the women I play tennis with are better off than we are. Some are downright wealthy.
It would be easy for me to see their $80k Audi or their country club memberships (plural!) and want those. But I don’t. In fact these friends are pretty easy. No one talks about money unless its about a sale or some good deal in town. We don’t compare stuff. We might admire someones jewelry and talk about that for a while (not the costs, just the styles), but for the most part we talk about family, friends and tennis. Maybe the haves are easier on each other than the have-nots?
But whenever I want something one of my wealthier friends has I use my head. I look at what all I do have - a nice home, a good car, a great husband, the luxury of not having to work, etc. I also look more realistically at those around me and see that I am very, very fortunate to have what I do, even if its less than many of my friends.
In other words rely on your self-esteem and your good sense. You know what you are doing or you wouldn’t be doing it. You know saving and living within your means is a better life then blowing each paycheck. And get a new set of friends if you have to. You can’t change your co-workers, but you can ignore them.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:03 am
This is off topic but I couldn’t help but respond to 37 (Kevin). I think the major reason for this would simply be the amount of really high quality content in each medium. TV has only been around about 100 years which means less content, which means less quality content. I think it would be hard to make a case that your average TV viewer is watching 8 hours of quality content every night. Reading by contrast has been going on in high volumes for over 10,000 years. This means that we have accumulated over time a lot more quality literature than TV content.
I don’t think anyone could successfully argue that Dante’s Inferno is on the same plane as Friends. Also, I think that reading for comprehension is a lot more engaging than watching sitcoms.
That being said, I hear where you’re coming from. Not ever reader is reading the great classics. I think some things on TV can be just as intellectually challenging as good literature (Mad Men for example) and I think that if you discuss what you’ve seen it can be just as engaging.
I think reading has high prestige because it has such a large intellectual canon and in theory people could choose to read those for their entire lives.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:03 am
OTOH we don’t know if Rob is one of those “trolls” who says in a superior tone, *I* don’t watch television!, as if it was a supreme moral virtue! If so, he is merely attracting what he is putting out. If one chooses to live against the grain and one cannot handle negative attention, one should keep a low profile, yes?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:04 am
I think JD made an important point about not judging people who do watch TV and who do enjoy it. I live in an area where it is cool to not have a tv. When folks get up on their soapbox about it my argument is that tv is better than ever because you control how you watch it now- with tivo, on demand, dv, hulu, netflix, etc. Plus the programming is the best its ever been- actng, stories, production value, etc.
I’m 29 and haven’t been peer-pressured in years- who do you people hang out with?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:11 am
I completely understand where Rob is coming from. Many of my coworkers also have different values than I do, and it does get frustrating at times. I know that I’m making the right choices for me (like weekend trips a few times a month!), and I do have friends that support those choices, but at work, it’s a completely different story.
I have been called “cheap” more times than I care to admit, and when I turn down expensive nights out that just don’t fit in my budget, I’ve been asked rudely what I spend all my money on instead. I usually come with an answer along the lines of “whatever I please,” and then I look outside of the office for people who agree that I’m NOT cheap. Bonus points if they’ll join me at the $1.50 movie theater afterward.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:12 am
To each their own, but I get real tired of people sanctimoniously vilifying TV. It’s as tiresome as someone who says the only radio they listen to is NPR. JD says that he wouldn’t really get much done on this site if he was a TV watcher. That isn’t so much a “problem” with TV as much it’s a “problem” with JD.
Same with people who are say they are affected by advertising in their spending habits.
As for the frugality of not owning a TV, I think the rabbit ears hooked up to my 10+ year old CRT TV and my Roku box which gives me the ability to watch “30 Rock” and “The Office” and Netflix movies on something larger than my laptop screen is a pretty good frugal decision. If you want to talk about Cable/Satellite subscription that’s different.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:13 am
On the “no judging” thing, I want to point out that although I personally don’t like TV, I hardly have the moral high ground. I spend my spare time reading COMIC BOOKS, for goodness sake. And without my moral compass (read: Kris), I’d be playing World of Warcraft 20 hours a day.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:14 am
I’m lucky to work in an office where we’re very honest with these things, and it seems to work very well.
One coworker is saving up for a big Round-the-World trip, another bags his lunch every day so his wife can stay home with the two kids, one just bought a house, etc.
I’m surprised to see that “Honesty” wasn’t listed as one of J.D.’s suggestions.
People are far less likely to feel judged and respond accordingly if the conversation isn’t “I don’t have a TV because I think it’s a giant, expensive time suck”, but instead “I don’t have a TV because we try to spend our weekends out at the ski hill” or “I don’t have a TV because we’re trying to trim down expenses before the baby arrives next year”.
There are few side benefits to this approach: it can open up a real dialogue with your coworkers (What do they want in life? What do they value outside of work?), remove the stigma associated with saving and frugality, and if they’re big credit spenders, plant the idea that there are trade-offs and sacrifices and that’s okay.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:26 am
When people comment on how I do things, I only have one thing to say: This is a free country, and I’m allowed to live however I want. There is a word for people who want everybody to have the same things, and I believe that word is Communism. When you turn it around and accuse people of being communists, it usually puts an abrupt stop to the comments.
I truely believe this. If somebody wants to buy a 70″ TV and pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable, that’s great for them. If somebody wants to not own a TV, that’s great for that guy. Want to read books? Great for you. Hate reading books? That’s fine too. Love your cell phone? I’m happy that you do. Hate cell phones? Don’t own one.
Anybody who wants to tell me what I should and should not do with my money can take a long walk off a short pier.
Sorry for getting up on my soapbox and ranting a little, but after reading this article I got mad at Rob’s friends for him. They sounds a bit like Jerks in this context.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:28 am
There is a BIG difference between frugal and cheap. I consider myself frugal, and enjoy the company of frugal friends, and even not-so-frugal friends. I do not like being with people who are cheap.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Oh, thank you for posting this just before Thanksgiving. Most of my friends and co-workers are working artists, teachers, social workers, secretaries and are frugal like me, sometimes even more so! But my sister has a very highly paid job and every Thanksgiving she goes out of her way to make me feel like the sad country mouse.
Sometimes I can blow this off, remember my real goals and shrug it off, but it’s hard during that holiday ritual known as Black Friday to say I don’t wish to shop recreationally and would rather hang out at home or maybe see a movie. I feel like I’m being snooty and nun-like and spoiling the fun. But I don’t want to drop hundreds of dollars on clothes because its the day after Thanksgiving.
It was easier when I was actually poor and really could NOT go shopping. But that’s not so much the case. Once I said, okay, I need a good winter hat, so I’ll go shopping and I’ll just buy my hat. But that goal was accomplished after about 10 minutes and the rest of the day was nightmarish and sad.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:34 am
I really liked the mini rant! I had a neighbor that constantly tried to convince me to buy a flat screen TV. I thought it was strange, I think people want you to be like them, it kind of justifies their decisions in a way. Usually if you say something simple explaining why you don’t have / buy X then people will sometimes open up and come out of the woodwork to discuss it with you. And some people that are giving you a hard time about whatever it is are very insecure and they will actually start to feel inadequate that they’re not doing what you’re doing.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Two words–ignore them. Ignore them and bask in the peace of mind that you are providing a better life for your family by doing what you are doing with your finances.
Its as simple as that
November 20th, 2009 at 8:39 am
@Matt (#44):
Thanks for the comment, I see your point. I think I’m falling victim to the same mentality outlined in this post - that of seeing others’ dismissal of my values as a personal attack. Whenever someone comments that they read books instead of watching TV, it always comes off with an air of superiority, in my opinion. They never say, “Oh, you like TV? That’s cool. I prefer to read.” But rather, more often than not, it comes across as, “TV? Pfffft! Enjoy your brainwashing, lemming. I prefer enlightenment to corporate-mind control.”
One more comment I’d like to make. J.D. mentioned that he reads “with” his wife. I’m sorry, but unless you’re reading over her shoulder and turning the pages together, you’re not reading “with” her. You’re reading “near” her. You’re not interacting at all with each other. On the other hand, when I’m watching TV with my wife, it’s a shared experience. We can pause the program and discuss what just happened, or what we think will happen next. After the program is over, we chat about it while we do chores or get our lunches ready for work the next day.
I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but it just really irks me when people think they’re superior, because they read books “near” their loved ones, and look down on me for sharing a TV experience with my wife. You’ve got it backwards, in my opinion!
November 20th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I’d just go with teasing them right back ala minderbender (although sex might not be appropriate workplace talk). Just mention all the cool things you do do have time to do and enjoy — tease them about not knowing when to trade wheat for sheep in Settlers of Cataan or about all the books you read or what have you.
Just gently point out that you don’t all enjoy the same pleasures. One person’s football obsession is another’s Star Trek; one person’s arts and crafts is another’s model railroading; tv for comic books; gardening for historical research; and on and on.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:44 am
I always ask myself, Why is this person acting this way, i.e. troll-like?
Usually it comes down to them needing reassurance from you that their way of living is the right way, because deep down they know it’s not. In being frugal, and happy about my decisions, I don’t feel the need to make others feel awful about theirs.
It reminds me of high school bullying. The bullies were the ones with the lowest self-esteem.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I think it depends on the person commenting. If it’s a work person, I tend to laugh it off. If it’s a friend, I will generally take the time to explain why it is I personally don’t need whatever it is he or she is talking about. If it’s a family member, well, I guess it depends on which family member.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:46 am
My coworkers give me a hard time about eating so many vegetables. Obviously I’m not going to stop eating vegetables and start eating donuts instead just to fit in - and I don’t believe my coworkers expect me to do so. I recognize it as the harmless ribbing it is.
If I didn’t believe it was harmless ribbing, I still wouldn’t let it get to me. I know that my lifestyle is sustainable and will work for me over the long haul. If they all want to get iphones, I am happy for them!
November 20th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Growing up, my mom watched TV a LOT. She used to yell at my sister and me when we would try to talk to her because a TV program was on, even if it was a movie she’d seen many times. It made me feel worthless and our relationship definitely was damaged. As I got older, watching TV became the main activity we did together as a family, other than fighting.
Now I’m 24 and I live thousands of miles away from home, but every time I visit my mom she is completely focused on me and wants to maximize her time with me. We haven’t watched TV together in years (except an occasional Virginia Tech football game). However, my older sister and my mom never developed a sound relationship. My sister hasn’t had cable for years, is living frugally in a “tiny house” solely on her husband’s salary, and has had 5 children in 6 years that she spends quality time with every day (I guess the “more time for sex” thing was true for her…)
My point is TV watching, if it becomes the main focus of your home life, can damage relationships forever. Kudos to you Rob.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:47 am
You can use metal clothes hangers (preferable unpainted) to roast hot dogs and marshmallows.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:48 am
I usually find the easiest rseponse to give when people I don’t want to bother with tease me about our no TV choice is to say “Oh, I get way too sucked into TV. If we had one, I’d never get anything done.”
Being a little self-deprecating usually disarms them and ends the conversation.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Hi Rob!
Couple things come to mind that might help you deal with your annoying coworkers:
1) Be proud of your choice… AND DISPLAY IT! Tell them of all the things you and your family got to do and see because you didn’t spend the night on couch watching telly. Did you take a walk and see something interesting- participate in a neighborhood event- make an amazing meal- read a really interesting article/essay/post online?
2) Apart from TV/movies I have noticed that people love to talk about two things: what they’ve read and what they’ve eaten. Poke around and see if one or more of your coworkers might be interested in this type of “gossip”. Maybe there’s somebody who religiously reads PC magazine (just like you). Or loves Italian food (just like you) and is more than happy to exchange recipes and restaurant recommendations.
3) Think about the personalities of each individual coworker and see if you could find a common interest. Maybe as a mob they talk/behave quite differently than they do as individuals. Try to see and draw out the individual behind the mob. The office isn’t really that different from the high-school class after all!
November 20th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Rob, this has more to do with them than it does you. You can’t control how they’re going to react to your life decisions — which, frankly, are none of their business — but you can control how you react to their reactions. I’d say to take a deep breath, remind yourself of that, and move on. Sometimes people just have to agree to disagree.
I applaud your efforts!
November 20th, 2009 at 9:11 am
I wouldn’t demonize television but I do acknowledge that many people don’t have the discipline to get up and walk away from their televisions.
I have never been one to give in to peer pressure in any aspect of my life; finance is just one more area where I do as I please.
Some ways of responding to financial peer pressure are better than others. Even a whiff of self-righteousness in your refusal to join in can result in being targetted further. Being judgmental serves nobody well.
I usually respond positively to another person’s purchase or financial bragging because it is obvious they are looking for validation or attention when they mention it to me.
It’s no skin off my nose to say, “Wow! Your Google Android phone sure is well-designed. It looks like something out of Star Trek!” Nothing at all wrong with complimenting it and if they push me to buy one too just shrug and say, “Aw, that’s okay, I have a little cell that does everything I need.”
I usually take the opportunity to ask about the product, how much they paid, where they got it, etc. and file it away for future reference. My little cell may be fine now, but stuff doesn’t last forever and one day it will need to be replaced; and by that time I may be able to pick up a fancy phone used for a fraction of the cost.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:11 am
@ Nicole - I like the way you think
That’s an excellent strategy. (I wonder if it will work when my relatives ask about my love life too?) 
November 20th, 2009 at 9:11 am
To people who say watching TV is unproductive, here is an alternative to consider. What is productivity, how do you define it. So lets say, you get rid of a TV, spend time with your family, do talking reading etc. how long will you do it, what will you have to discuss every day, day after day. Definition of productivity is personal. If you want escapism for an hour or two and you want to watch TV that’s fine. But if you are addicted to the shows, that’s where the problem is. I save around 50% of my take home, live within my means, with no CC or auto debt. But at the same time, I watch TV, splurge on spending on things when I really want them. I watch ads but they dont affect me unless its something I am looking for and is on a great deal. The key to everything is moderation. So, as much as the person who mocks Rob is at fault, the same applies to people who just blatantly say watching TV is a waste of time…
November 20th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Oh good so its ok to admit when we watch a DVD on our 20 year old TV we have to turn a DIAL on the 29 year old receiver that controls the volume on our “suround sound” speakers from the 80’s that seem to be growing in size each year??
November 20th, 2009 at 9:28 am
DH and I “broke up with” Direct TV last year. We had the DVR, TiVO, and NFL Sunday Ticket package. We were spending $65/mo during the summer and $110/mo during football season. We now spend $9.18/mo for the basic of basic cable package. We get the major networks (ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS) plus PBS, Ion, National Geographic, and WGN America.
The extra time has been more valuable than the extra money each month. I’ve already read more books in the last few months than I did all of last year. Plus it’s much easier to “find time” to spend with our daughter and help her with homework. Plus we’ve been playing more games and spending more time outside.
It’s amazing what shows and movies are online for free. We even watch some sports on the computer.
Of course our friends and family think it’s weird. But we are very happy so we don’t care.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:31 am
My husband works with a woman who spends ridiculous amounts of money on her kids. Last Christmas, she bought her 8 year old daughter a laptop which her daughter promptly broke. This year, she wants to buy her 10 year old son a smart phone. My husband tells her she’s crazy and she always tells him “you’ll see when you have kids.”
I believe most people who tell us frugal types that we are living in the stone age or that we can’t possibly be happy with not having all the latest things for our families just feel guilty. My husband and I don’t work crazy schedules anymore. We enjoy our time together. We don’t need all the latest material things because we have each other. It’s sad to see all these people running the rat race to keep up with the Joneses, just to realize they still aren’t happy.
I applaud all those who keep a simpler life and remember that time is the greatest gift you can give your family.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:44 am
From a 20-something perspective I can totally related. I was in a ton of debt (from supporting myself through college) and now finally I’m pulling my self out and almost free. I dont have a TV (other than for viewing DVD’s and using free cable from my internet connection) and I’m perfectly fine with it, in fact I love it. I live alone and I love the silence, I find myself doing so much more that I really want to do instead of lazing around in front of the TV. Get this I also never had an I-pod until someone upgraded their’s and did not want the “old” one anymore. So now I have an “old” generation i-pod which, get this, plays music, and does nothing else. It works perfectly and was free.
I agree with other people. I guess it was how I was raised, I never grew up with cable TV or even a microwave. Keep working hard on your goals and secretly laugh and how much farther along you will be than all the others!
November 20th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I think a lot of people are glossing over the impact Rob’s frugality might be having on his kids. I accept that not having a tv or electronic games/video games etc has positive benefits, like more family time, more emphasis on physical activity, more kids reading etc etc ….. But children who don’t have these things are often ostracised at school. And bad teasing and even bullying at school has quite far-reaching consequences. I don’t think it’s inconceivable that teasing and bullying would result from the lack of tv. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I also know a close friend who never had a tv growing up (we’re in our twenties, so it was definitely the norm during the 80s to have a tv at home) and there are so many times where I reference something from my childhood viewing and we realise she doesn’t share that experience. You might argue that her childhood experiences could still be richer than mine and you might be right, but you really need to consider this issue carefully before you do this to your kids, in my opinion. As for material goods in general - every generation of kids has something that becomes virtually standard and not just for the rich kids. Folks who choose extreme frugality (don’t know what extreme applies to Rob admittedly) or other alternative lifestyles run the real risk of having their kids shunned at school. You can take the moral high ground if you want and say your kids are learning an important principle from you, but you’d have to accept the negative impact on their childhood experience and be willing to defend your decision all the way.
Just my take on this issue. Not particularly high-brow, but I’d recommend reading “About a Boy” by Nick Hornsby. The child in that book really suffers at the hands of his mother’s decision to lead a certain kind of lifestyle. It’s done very humorously and is a fun read. The Hugh Grant movie version is also pretty good and does represent some of the bullying too.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:53 am
A few have already said this, but your coworker is saying more about his or her insecurities than your choices.
My choices about diet and lifestyle make it difficult to relate to many of my coworkers, and as much as I try to keep my choices and reasons under wraps, I inevitably catch flak when, say, I politely decline a doughnut on doughnut day.
When you are secure with your choices, you don’t feel the need to give someone else a hard time for theirs. I do exactly what J.D. recommended: trust myself and laugh it off.
Also, as a kid, we had a TV, but no cable, unlike all of my friends. And I mean ALL of my friends. No, I didn’t know what happened on the latest episode of Ren and Stimpy, and as a kid, it bothered me a little when my friends were talking about it at school and I was left out. As an adult, I thank my father for encouraging me to read and play outside instead. Those are memories that are still with me today, and I’m grateful to him for not letting me spend my weekends in front of the TV.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:59 am
While I think everyone realizes that it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, the things people say are still very hurtful. Life is like High School only now we pay our own bills.
The best Rob can do is to avoid those people who give him a hard time as much as possible. Finding new friends who share your same thought process and lifestyle is one thing, finding new work mates may be more difficult. Sometimes there just isn’t anyway to avoid them. The best you can do then is to come up with the snappy comebacks such as the “more time for sex”. My guess is that any sort of comeback with a sexual connatation to it is going to shut these guys up. “I prefer to touch my wife’s buttons and not my iphone’s.” “My wife’s “Showtime after dark” is far better than what I can pay the cable company for.” “Why watch 18 Kids and counting when I can practice with my wife.”
November 20th, 2009 at 10:05 am
@KC (#50)
“It would be easy for me to see their $80k Audi or their country club memberships (plural!) and want those. But I don’t. In fact these friends are pretty easy. No one talks about money unless its about a sale or some good deal in town. We don’t compare stuff. We might admire someones jewelry and talk about that for a while (not the costs, just the styles), but for the most part we talk about family, friends and tennis. Maybe the haves are easier on each other than the have-nots?”
Well, there’s a pretty serious taboo on talking about money amongst people who’ve actually grown up wealthy. Unless it’s, like you said, bragging about a particularly good find on Craigslist or something, you’re not going to find them rubbing your nose in it or needling other people about their financial choices. Not in polite company, anyhow.
Several of our friends follow these rules, along with several other rules for how to behave in polite company (not criticizing people, being careful to consider other people’s needs when planning an event, etc), and other than occasionally kicking myself for saying something crude (I was not raised in polite company ;), I really enjoy it.
It sounds like we as a society could stand to think a little more about being considerate, and a little less about competing with each other to consume the most “stuff”.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:05 am
My parents are very into giving lots of material gifts at Christmas. They say they genuinely enjoy the shopping and wrapping processes, but they always seem stressed out to me. I personally detest holiday shopping and can’t/won’t compete with them in how much I spend. They always ask me for a list of things I want, but I’ve come to hate making it because I don’t reciprocate in equal quantity/expense. I’ve tried asking for “experience gifts” like a day trip somewhere we would all enjoy, but they prefer to give objects that can be wrapped and placed under the tree. This year I’m giving them one object gift each and coupons for services I can provide, such as dogsitting. Not sure how it will go over, but I’m tired of getting sucked into the buy-the-perfect-present frenzy.
As for TV, I live in an area where poor reception meant that without cable, you only got PBS. Perfect for me. However, I moved out of state last year and had an apartment with free cable. I only miss the news shows. Now that I’m back in my hometown, I’m debating whether enjoying Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow is reason enough to get cable. Is there any way to watch nightly news shoes online?
November 20th, 2009 at 10:09 am
There are a couple people in my life that make fun of us for not having cable. These are the same people that get off work, veg in front of the TV for hours, go to bed (often with the TV still on) and repeat again the next day. They can’t imagine a life without TV because *it is their entire life*. It is truly a very sad situation.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I’m fairly frugal myself and don’t go out much. I do have a TV and on average watch an hour of TV a day. I use it more for watching DVDs that I’ve picked up from the library.
Anyway, I wanted to make a point about work colleagues. Maybe my situation is unusual but we don’t talk about our personal lives very much. Everyone kind of keeps their private lives private. Whether someone owns a TV or not I don’t know. How they spend their money I don’t know. Those people that I consider a friend - and those are ones I would hangout with outside work - I trust and are obviously people who know more about me.
You don’t have to tell every person you work with your personal business or lifestyle. It doesn’t affect them. If you do want to chat about what you do outside work then be prepared for some negative comments!
November 20th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Dear JD:
Social validation is really important in many people’s lives. I liked your suggestions on how to deal with the above described situation.
One the resonated with me the most was changing your friends. People want to fit in, without others our life has not meaning. Let me rephrase it. We should be who we want to be and find other friends who support who we are.
The thing is, nobody is that unique that they will not find anybody to relate to. There are other people in the world who have similar interests and thoughts.
Think about it. People who are interesting in frugal and simple living, come to this website to share their ideas and support each other. That is what it is all about.
You will never satisfy everybody, just be sure be on your own path, live your own mission in life and create an environment supportive of what you want to be.
Best,
Tomas
November 20th, 2009 at 10:12 am
How to deal with being teased? At work, I’m teased regularly about stuff. One coworker even teases me about the fact that I save money at all. I just tease them all right back, or laugh it off. It would be different if it were mean-spirited (or if I chose to take it that way). That could certainly become toxic. But generally, being a good sport about the fact that your choices may be unusual, and joining in on the good-natured ribbing can be a really great way to deflect negative feelings about it.
As for TV specifically, whatever your choice is, that’s what it is. But it does seem that a lot of people who don’t watch TV or don’t have a TV act very superior about it. There’s nothing inherently bad about TV. Shows are becoming ever more sophisticated and by watching them, you actually absorb a lot of useful information and can learn a lot. See the book ‘Everything Bad Is Good For You’ for some excellent examples and explanations. And as someone else noted, reading is an inherently solitary activity, while watching TV as a family can be a great experience because you can pause, wait until commercial, or talk after the program is over and end up getting in to some really interesting discussions. My parents and I used to weekly watch movies or TV together as a family, and it’s a tradition I hope to pass on when I have children.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:13 am
All good thoughts, but I would add one thing. One of the recent GRS articles I read said to “do what works for you.” In my own quest for financial independence, I can easily do without name brand clothing and vacations. I would not want to do without tv or internet. It’s how I’m wired. Other people are the opposite. I take no offense to this.
I think that sometimes in peoples’ enthusiasm for a way of life that works for them, they can be preachy about what they are doing (without meaning to, of course) and the natural backlash of others is to push against it. Rob needs to assess if he is doing this to his coworkers.
An example: I assure you, I do not care where my co-workers shop, but when they razz me for shopping at Wal Mart, my natural instinct is to push back because I can’t stand for others to tell me what is right for me and my family. (Interesting that the people who comment on this make twice what I make and have no kids… easy for them to pay higher prices elsewhere… but I digress…)
If you don’t want to watch TV, fine. If you don’t want to shop at a big box store, fine. More power to you. But if you truly don’t want others to judge or comment on your chosen lifestyle, I would ask that you have the courtesy and self awareness not to do the same to your co-workers. I can’t imagine that a co-worker would comment on another’s household unless they felt that their own households were somehow being judged.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I had a teacher in high school who didn’t have TV. People (by which I mean the students) made fun of her for that. They seemed to think it meant she lived in a cave, away from the real world.
She didn’t know what was going on in the world since she didn’t have TV. She didn’t know anythin about popular culture or shows so was out of touch. Etc, etc (that’s what people said, of course).
She read papers, had the radio and talked with other people so she was really aware of what was going on in the world, of course.
I think if having lots of Stuff is a symbol of power and stuff (which is why lots of people want stuff, to brag) it makes sense that the absence of Stuff would be looked down upon.
I don’t have TV either (I have a TV, for watching DVDs and playing games, though. But it doesn’t get any channels) although I watch TV online. I think it’s sad that so many people can’t imagine life without TV. There are so many other things to do.
About peer pressure… When I was in my first year of university, I was broke (keep in mind it’s in France where university is free) and my job basically paid for my food and little more (luckily didn’t have to pay a rent since I lived at my parent’s place).
I became friends with a girl whose family was extremely rich and gave her a huge allowance, bigger than most people’s salary.
Sometimes she’d want to go shopping. I remember one day going to the FNAC (French store that sells books, electronics and DVDs among other things), and being horrified as she spent a thousand euros (about double my monthly income) or stuff she didn’t even plan to buy originally.
Then we went to her place to drop all her bags, and out again to shop for clothes and then go to a comic store.
It was a horrible experience for me. I felt like crap. I didn’t even want any of the stuff she bought (well, maybe a few) but I felt like not being able to buy them made me inferior.
Every time we shopped together, I felt bad if I didn’t buy something, too.
She also wanted to eat at restaurants often. The first few times she invited me and it was nice to have great meals for free. Then she suggested I pay for the next time (she didn’t say it in any mean or weird or forcing way) and it only seemed fair but there was no way I could afford even fast food.
She wanted to go to the theatre often and although I couldn’t afford it I couldn’t say “no” every single time.
I’m glad I never had a credit card because I would have gone in debt otherwise.
Stil nowadays, she makes me cringe when I think about how the money could be spent “better”. She hasn’t watched 90% of her movies, you know.
And she doesn’t really care. From time to time she just invites all her friends and show them a pile of stuff and says “I don’t want this anymore, if there is anything you want you just take it”.
I felt terrible at the time, but I would often take what nobody else had taken, just to sell it on ebay and make a bit of money.
That was a very different kind of peer pressure. While she never looked down on me, she didn’t realise that I couldn’t afford even a small portion of what she could. She knew how much I made but considered it to be “pocket money”, without realising that I needed to pay for my food, my clothes, my internet and other bills, etc. Since she didn’t have to pay for any of these things, all of her money was spent on entertainment (I include restaurants in that) and she thought it was the same for everyone.
I think the answer for that second type of peer pressure is to be honest with yourself and with your friend. And swallow your pride. If I had told her I couldn’t afford something, she would have been fine with it. The few times I worked up the courage to tell her, she just paid for me, and forgot about it right away.
I didn’t want to use her and I didn’t want her to think less of me so I didn’t dare be honest with her when I should have. We would have done things that were cheaper.
I should also have realised that it’s okay to let other pay for you. She didn’t want to go to the theatre by herself. When I said “no”, it deprived her or the movie she wanted to see. She would happily spend the price of two tickets for that entertainment rather than staying home bored.
By being too proud I also prevented HER from having fun when the amounts were just change for her if even that.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Life is just too short to justify your well thought out decisions to others. As long as you are living the life you intended, who cares what the neighbors, co-workers or family members think?
I like the earlier suggestion to change the subject. Or simply say “Life is about balance and our lives are VERY well balanced.” Walk away content in the knowledge that you left them thinking.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I’ve had good luck with a light comment combined with a what-I-do-instead. So, I might do:
“Oh, gosh, I live in a tiny house, and don’t know where I’d put a TV. I watch the few things I really want to watch on Hulu, online, or wait for it to be available on Netflix.”
or
“Everyone told me it’d be impossible to live without a microwave, but you know, I just haven’t missed it. I really don’t have a good place to put one - the previous tenant had it on top of the fridge, but I just didn’t feel safe climbing off the step stool (I’m 5′) holding hot food. I might have missed popcorn, but a good friend found me a great stovetop popcorn maker at a garage sale: works just as fast as the microwave, and it tastes so much better while being a lot healthier.”
or
“Yeah, it’s a tiny house (400 square feet), and I do want some more shelf space. But I love that I can clean the whole place in an hour or two, and that it feels so cozy and convenient when I’m home.”
I usually give just enough explanation of whatever their logical objection probably is to short-circuit it. (Like the microwave one.) Part of it, I think is also being authentic and up-front about the stuff that does matter to me.
I’m a librarian, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to my co-workers (high school staff) that I’m probably spending a lot more time reading or on the computer than watching TV. And when they know my hobbies include baking, or spinning yarn, or other more traditional crafts, the fact I prefer stove and oven to microwave isn’t a huge surprise either. I’m not talking oversharing private stuff, of course - just the little bits that come up in chatting.
On TV growing up - I was only allowed to watch PBS, or a very few other things with parental permission. I didn’t get that much teasing from classmates, but weirdly enough, it totally freaked out one of my high school English teachers, who insisted I watch an episode of the Wonder Years, so I’d better understand Romeo and Juliet. (No, I still don’t get her logic.)
I went home, got my parents to call in and explain to her exactly what I was doing on Tuesday nights instead. (Music lesson followed by time at the barn - I was a serious horseback rider at the time - followed by a meeting, and getting home around 9 to have a bath and go to bed.) I loved doing all those things, but wasn’t home to watch Tuesday’s episode on Tuesday (We did have a VCR, but I’d rather use my limited TV time on Dr. Who or Mystery, and besides, didn’t have time till the weekends). She gave up on it, with very bad grace.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Peer presure is peer pressure, no matter what the thing is. I work with the youth at my church, and I tell them that the thing about peer pressure is that people want us to validate their own choices by following along and doing the same. If they’re dragging themselves down, they want you to drag yourself down with them.
Doesn’t matter if it’s underage drinking or grown-up financial matters. It’s a matter of knowing yourself well enough to be able to stand firm in what you believe to be right.
My husband once had a coworker who chewed him out for not buying me jewelry for Christmas. The coworker kept insisting that all wives expect jewelry from their husbands, and the implication was that my husband is a crappy one for not following suit. Thing is, I have beautiful jewelry, and I get overwhelmed by too many choices. I honestly don’t want anymore. My husband knows that, and he knows me well enough to know the things that I do want. It really bugged the coworker that my husband didn’t fall in line with his way of thinking. Again, it was a situation of someone needing someone else to validate his choices in life.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I’d just like to point out that the assertion “reading is a solitary activity” is false.
One of the things my family used to do when I was growing up was read books together. Someone, generally my dad (who has an excellent reading voice), would read a book out loud for 20-30 minutes in the evenings. It started when we were pretty young, and continued until we were all well into our teens. We read a lot of books this way, and all enjoyed it. It’s something that I hope to do with my child(ren) eventually as well.
I’ll note that this wasn’t because we didn’t have a TV: we did, and we watched that (together or separately) as well. However, I have far richer memories of reading books together than I do of watching TV together.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Great post! I’ve told all my close friends that I’m trying to pay off all my debt in the next three years so I have a tight budget these days. I’ve even told select coworkers. They all understand, and are supportive. If they weren’t, I suppose they wouldn’t be my friends.
In most offices there is a variety of “groups” - you know, some brown bag their lunches, some eat out every day, some have kids in private school, etc. Find your “group”.
Even if you’re in a very small office I guarantee there is at least one other person who is frugal like you. They probably just keep their mouth shut for fear of getting singled out like you are. Just start observing other’s habits and approach them to eat together, etc. You might be surprised how many there are!
November 20th, 2009 at 10:41 am
To me, it doesnt matter the subject of ridicule (TV in this case). Whatever it is, I continue to remain confident in my personal l;ife decisions and do what makes me happy.
For example, I run abuot 20 miles per week and eat healtheir than 95% of the US population. For years my co-workers and friends have made fun of my dining choices or sack lunches at work.
I’m doing what makes me happy. I’ve got this piece of my life EXACTLY where I want it.
I could care less that it creates opportuities for those around me to make fun. And without being rude or inappropriate, I let them know it by my confidence and resolve for my choices.
It drives them crazy as they eat their Big Mac…
November 20th, 2009 at 10:42 am
The TV guy might just not know what else to talk about. Standing around the water cooler discussing the latest big show can be a real bonding experience and some guys can’t talk about anything except sports. He might be feeling insecure about that and is resorting to teasing as a defense mechanism.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Brandi, yes! I watch Maddow online, particularly listening while I do dishes.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Well, first of all, I think that perhaps he should not broadcast the fact that he does not have electronic ‘toys’. What does he think people will say? He might even be coming across as preachy. Not everyone agrees with that. When I was a kid I had limited TV access, which I think is good, and I did not have video games either, but I think it’s kinda mean to not give your kids any of that. I like balance, and TV does not have to be a bad thing if it’s used reasonably. I mostly just watch my favorite NHL team’s games. That’s been a hobby of mine for years. I can’t imagine giving that up. And cable is sure cheaper than season tickets.
Luckily, my family is quite reasonable with money, and so are my friends, so I don’t really have to deal with that peer pressure to spend spend spend. When my ex bf and I lived together, he was more of a spender than I was, and I did feel pressured for us to spend more as a couple (and we did). I got myself into financial trouble pretty early, and it was mostly my own doing, but he definitely helped. Thankfully, I woke up and soon I will be debt-free and be able to start saving relatively early (I’m 24).
November 20th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Um, how do Rob’s co-workers know that he doesn’t have a TV or other electronic gadgets in his home? Probably because he told them. And therein lies the problem. I go out of my way to keep my personal life private. I make sure I get my co-workers talking about THEIR hobbies and THEIR lives. As a result, my co-workers know very little about me, but still think I’m a great conversationalist because I ask a lot of questions.
For stuff that’s not easily hidden (like the car you drive), just ignore them. They’re your co-workers, not your friends. You don’t owe anyone an explanation. When you’re secure in your choices, you won’t feel the need to justify them. Just live your own life and let them live theirs.
For the record, I like TV and I like reading.