I know that sometimes people throw the food away and ruin it so there is no liability. I don’t think people who have empty houses have a moral obligation to let someone who doesn’t want to work live there.

Maybe it’s because I do believe in biblical ethics, but the Apostle Paul said that if someone didn’t want to work, then let them not eat. There is a basic principle here.

However, it is sad there is so much waste. My mom also recycles, takes what people are willing to give away and tries to find good homes for it, etc. When possible, I do too. I wish I could find more good stuff thrown away around here! We could use another couch!

Women normally have things like monthly cycles, etc. She MUST have money to buy those kinds of things. You can’t use those “recycled”.

No, I take it all back. She’s certainly using NHS (free health care in Britain). She’s a parasite.

looking forward to the book

I know that personally, the happiest time in my life was living in a tent while crossing the United States. It was a trip that took a little over two months and is my fondest memory. It did require some money, but I keep wondering how to get back to that.

I don’t do quite as much to use the stuffing out of things (pun intended), but I try to hook up with people like you who will appreciate my slightly used stuff when i don’t want it any more. And if I don’t know anyone then I donate it to anyone who will take it.

btw, would you like a couple armchairs? They’re a bit aged but still comfortable. I don’t have room for them any more.

I agree that we’d all be better off if there was far less waste – but since it exists I think we’re being good environmental citizens for re-using our own waste & making good use of others’.

We have a terrible trade deficit with China and we’ve allowed them to become the manufacturers for the entire world. All of us in Europe & the U.S. would do well with making do with what we’ve got as well as finding new uses for old things.

I’ve worked there. Well, not in this specific store, but in a store. We had to make sure the food we threw away couldn’t be salvaged, and we were not allowed to take it home, either.

The way it was explained to me is “if people could get it for free, they would stop buying it. They would wait until we closed, and then they’d get it for free.”
And as much as I hate waste and it makes me cringe, I can definitely see the logic in that.

As for her keeping a cellphone, well, I used to have one that was free for anything received, you’d only pay for sending stuff. Then you just need electricity, which you can get from any public place for free.
In her case, she said it costs her ten pounds a month, and apparently she makes more than that by selling the stuff other people throw out, so…

I’m always mixed with stories like that. On the one hand, it’s good that things don’t go to waste. On the other hand, by living on what people throw away, by depending on other people wasting, aren’t these people encouraging waste? Aren’t they part of it, too? If people suddenly stopped wasting, they would lose everything they have. They’re living on other people’s stuff, and then criticising them for giving them what allows them to survive. I find it very paradoxical.

She’s not taking resources from anyone, but she is taking things which she has not produced. I wouldn’t call that playing the game differently, but more like gaming the system. She isn’t taking things ‘donated’ to her, but she’s taking just the same. She’s passing judgment on others who waste their resources (especially if they make the choice available in a free society to trash them rather than share them), so why can’t anyone else pass judgment on her?

Rather than snip about vacant houses and ruined leftovers, maybe she should work as a go between for the squatters and property owners/restaurants to make sure resources are used. I bet many property owners would be willing to trade housing for an assurance that a person would care for the property. Although in that case more of the REASONS might become apparent. Perhaps houses are best vacant because it is next to impossible to evict someone with more rights than a squatter. A friend of mine lived in France for a short while many years ago, and she said at the time many landlords would prefer to leave a house vacant than rent to her because it was illegal to evict a woman with children (which she was) during the winter. Perhaps the restaurants don’t give the food away because they are just as liable for food they sell as food they give. Perhaps the food is legally expired after X number of hours and they don’t want to be sued. While many people are wasteful and lazy many do things that don’t make sense until you ask about their reasons.

Honestly one of my thoughts regarding JD posting her story is that living like that is the opposite of getting rich slowly, it’s staying poor efficiently. She’s eventually going to have to get a job and save for retirement, unless she plans on relying on her fellow man for that as well. I don’t know too many people who throw out vouchers for nursing homes, but then again perhaps her standards will lower so she’ll be happy to live on government assistance at that point.

Re: the mobile phone: Hibbert says she pays £10 per month and have sold some stuff to be able to pay the fee.

Yes, throwing away perfectly edible food is wasteful. Yes, letting buildings stand empty for years doesn’t make any economic sense. However, there’s very little that’s virtuous about squatting and digging through garbage bins for food when you’re of sound mind and body.

Reduce, reuse, recycle, for sure, but if you’re not helping to keep the wheels of society turning by adding your time, talents or hard work to the mix, you’re just a parasite.

Anyway, she’s now going to earn some money, since she’s published a book about her experience

I appreciate Katharine Hibbert’s message regarding waste, but had the same reaction re. the cell phone (I’d love to know how she manages that without money; I imagine even pay-as-you-go + Skype costs something.)

Thanks for sharing these links. I enjoyed checking them out.

http://www.paige-williams.com/

Confessions of a Bottom Feeder: http://home.earthlink.net/~astrology/confessi.html Some of the stuff this lady says is off the wall but some of it is really interesting. It’s not so much about living without money as it is about living without a regular job.

NYTimes recently did an article about charities working with clothing stores to get them to donate rather than destroy their unsold items. Hibbert is right that higher trash fees would probably ameliorate a lot of this waste.

Re: the tournament… I really WANT to vote for you but you’re up against someone explaining a basic statistical concept that is really important that takes a while for my students to really get (even if they can calculate it). I am torn. So not voting for me…

As far as squatting, holding on to a property just to keep it empty seems pretty ridiculous to me. Why would anyone do that? Why not rent it or sell it? Maybe there is a need for a charity to take responsibility in this area; assuage the fears of property owners while still providing cheap or free shelter to the truly needful.

I also think that the lesson she’s learned regarding acquisitiveness is absolutely priceless. We should all give our possessions such a hard look.

Overall I admire her. She’s not competing for jobs; she’s diverting food and Stuff from landfill; she’s improving herself; and she’s writing about it, so that maybe others give a second thought to waste.

Without money in the world they would have to build their own houses, protect their own land, grow their own food, and certainly couldn’t continue to use a mobile phone. And in that way, the sustainability they promote is a fallacy, because their way of life couldn’t be supported globally without everyone banding together or at least ceasing to fight (even on a small, person-to-person scale). It’s a clear example of lacking sustainability.

What I feel it comes down to is people blaming the gun rather than the shooter. Moneyless-advocates say it themselves, money is just a concept; it can’t hurt anyone, only our judgment and the value we place on it can. In that way I feel the most viable solution is just doing the best you can to simplify your life, avoid all debt, save your money, and do work that you feel makes a difference in at least one persons life.

Also, perhaps I’m being some sort of cleanliness nut, but just because food does not appear rotten does not mean that it is fit to eat. Who knows if that bag of bread that she scavenged hadn’t been discarded because it fell on the sidewalk or because of some other mishanding? With that in mind, it makes perfect sense for a store to try to make their food waste as inedible looking as possible.

As far as companies ruining food before throwing it out: once again, it’s great that she and her friends are putting perfectly good food to use. On the other hand what restaurant wants a bunch of homeless people hanging out waiting for their trash? Perhaps she should propose a third party charity that could pick up the food and distribute it from their facility rather than complain about how being a vagabond is common in other areas of the world.

Even though it is ‘trash’ and she isn’t living off charity, she IS living off what other people have produced, so whining that they are wasting their resources rather than giving it to her seems a little twisted.