Sometimes I get questions that are out of my league. In the past, I’ve just sort of ignored these, but I’d like to try to answer more of them. To do this, I’m going to start asking for tips from some of the experts I’ve met through GRS.
For example, my good friend Mac from Get Fit Slowly (where I may eventually write again some day), came to me this week with a question about credit cards. In fact, it’s a question I get surprisingly often: He wants to know how to find the best credit card for his needs. To find out, I tapped a couple of the experts in my professional network.
First, let’s look at Mac’s situation:
My wife and I are long-time users of the Alaska Airlines Platinum Credit Card. We use this card to earn frequent-flier miles, and since we primarily fly up and down the West Coast to visit family with our children, Alaska seemed like the way to go. The card also has a few other perks:
- One frequent-flier mile for every dollar spent.
- Two frequent-flier miles for every dollar spent on alaska airline flights.
- One companion ticket each year (buy one full-price ticket, get a second for $99).
I have no idea what the interest rate is because we pay off the card every month without fail. Neither of us likes to carry cash, so we basically use this card for everything we can. (We even use it for small purchases like morning coffees and video rentals.)
Recently, I’ve been unhappy with some changes they’ve made to the card benefits. So, I’m looking into switching cards and was wondering if you could offer some advice. I’m looking for a rewards based card for folks who pay off their balance each month. Our rewards would be used for travel, so I’d like the best travel rewards primarily, but I’m not opposed to other rewards programs such as merchandise rewards, etc.
A few of the cards I’ve looked at but haven’t pulled the trigger on are the American Express Platinum Card and the Chase Sapphire Card. I’m not sure which of these to choose from or if there are better options out there. What are your thoughts?
My thoughts are that looking at credit card offers makes my mind numb. I’d rather go to the dentist!
As most of you know, I carry just one credit card (a Capital One No-Hassle Cash Rewards card), and sometimes I think I should get rid of even that. But I really do like getting one percent cash back on the things I buy, so I’ve kept the card. (And I use it — a lot.)
If I were to start looking for a new card, I’d start by checking two sites: Index Credit Cards and Card Ratings. There are other credit-card sites out there, but these are the two I know best. Both have huge lists of cards that you can sort through to find the one that fits your needs.
In fact, because I know so little about this subject, I contacted both sites to ask if they could give feedback on Mac’s predicament. Here’s what Curtis Arnold from Card Ratings had to say:
Many of our readers share Mac’s frustration. I personally have never been a big fan of airline reward cards, but particularly in this tough credit environment; my personal mantra is that cash is king.
I would challenge Mac to take a look at our recent press release regarding the best credit cards of 2009. There are a couple of cash rebate credit cards that give you 2% cash back on every purchase and several cards that give you 5% back on certain types of purchase. If you do the math and compare the rebate percentage of these cards with your current one, I would be shocked if your current card even comes close.
Adam from Index Credit Cards suggested two options, depending on how important the travel rewards are to Mac and his wife:
First is the Citi PremierPass Card, which pays you points on purchases as well as on actual travel miles flown. There’s a no-annual-fee version of this card as well as a card that charges $75 annually but offers a more generous rewards package. Which you choose would obviously depend on how often you use your card and also how often you would buy airline tickets with it. You can use the points from this card for travel across airlines or for other rewards from Citi’s ThankYou rewards program.
Second is American Express Blue Cash. Based on Mac’s description of his card use habits, I’m assuming he puts a lot of expenses on his card every year. This card is a cash rebate card that works best the more you spend with it. At first you earn a modest 1% cash back on gas and grocery purchases and 0.5% on other purchases, but after you’ve spent $6,500 with the card, those reward percentages go up to 5% on gas and groceries and 1.25% everywhere else, with no limit on your rewards. Think hard about your expenses, though, because if you won’t spend significantly more than $6,500 per year, you’re better off going with a straight cash back card without this tiered formula.
See why I went out to the experts? This is all gibberish to me. Maybe I’m hurting myself with my ignorance, but I’m content with my Capital One No-Hassle Cash Rewards card. It gives me one percent cash back on everything I buy. That’s it. No muss, no fuss. The whole thought of having to track travel miles makes me tense! (Seriously.)
Anyhow, what are your thoughts? Where do you go to get info on current credit card offers? What should Mac look for in a card? Can you recommend any options for a family that doesn’t carry a balance, but uses their card for most of the purchases they make?
This website may receive payment by the companies mentioned in this blog.
This article is about Ask the Readers, Credit Cards, Gurus Friday, 29th January 2010 (by J.D. Roth)


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January 29th, 2010 at 5:12 am
No overall information here, but if you are a military veteran (with a good credit history) you can get an interest rate of below 7% with USAA. We’ve had our card for the past six years and our rate has never changed.
January 29th, 2010 at 5:38 am
The best credit card is no credit card at all. Live debt free, and don’t buy things you can’t afford. If you have to have a credit card (which no one ever does) then be sure to pay it off early to avoid interest charges. Also, try a checking account with a cash balance of $3k and a debit card instead. Just pay yourself back instead of paying anyone interest. I’ve been debt free (aside from my mortgage) for 3 years and counting - you can too.
January 29th, 2010 at 5:42 am
My husband and I use the same credit card. I have him added as an authorized user. We’ve looked at applying for a new one jointly so he has a credit card on his report:
http://ultimatemoneyblog.com/do-we-need-another-credit-card
We use the National City Everyday Rewards. It works well for us, and we get $100 check at least once a year!
January 29th, 2010 at 6:00 am
flyertalk.com has a section discussing various credit card programs. I have found them to be very knowledgeable.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs-partners-390/
January 29th, 2010 at 6:01 am
My wife and I have been super happy with Schwab’s 2% cash back visa. The rewards go to a Schwab brokerage (which you can transfer directly to a Schwab IRA), where you can buy their low-cost, no commission ETFs.
They’ve got a pretty good set-up in my opinion.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:12 am
I use my Discover More card for everything. It’s probably not the absolute best card for me, but I’ve had it for years and I really like it. They have certain categories that can earn 5% cash back and they change the categories several times a year, which is good because the limit for the categories is usually around $800. I like that they let you take the cash back as a gift card and they even increase the value of the gift card. For example, I recently used $40 of my cash back to get a $50 AE gift card.
I don’t think this card is good for anyone who spends a lot and is really interested in a good reward program. It works for me because I am young and broke and don’t have a lot of moeny to spend. So whatever I do spend goes on the card and gets paid off every month and then every couple of months I get to go out to eat or get some new clothes for free.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:14 am
There has been an interesting series on credit cards, debit cards, reward cards on the NYT. I found it interesting that reward cards cost the retailer much more in credit card processing fees than regular credit cards. The fees hurt small retailers and there is a further debate as to whether its ethical to use reward cards since poorer people end up subsidizing the rewards. This is the web site to check out http://truecostofcredit.com/
I think the retailer sob story over processing fees is overblown, especially since they discount the cost of handling and processing cash and they ignore the fact that people spend more when using credit (except for smart GRS readers). But I think the fact that we all pay more for goods and services to cover credit card costs is an interesting topic and whether there ought to be a system like some European countries where the credit processing costs are broken out as a separate line item and the customer who uses credit pays it but those who use cash do not.
We don’t use credit cards for day to day purposes, but our one credit card (which we use for travel) is Capital One.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:20 am
How could this question be even answered if you do not have the following information?
1. How much do they spend on the card?
2. Are they frequent flyers? If so, which airlines?
3. How do they make use of their frequent flyer miles? just plain domestic flights, upgrades, first class tickets?
4. Where do they travel and which airlines do they use? Never assume it is always Alaska Airlines.
Without even asking the reader this question, how can any suggestions be made?
January 29th, 2010 at 6:22 am
@Sam,
I noticed that in some areas of the country, places do charge more if you use credit. My brother lives in TX and he said the if he uses his debit card as credit, his bank charges him an extra dollar. I also had a friend who visited Atlanta and he said things would cost a little extra if he used his credit card. In my town, there are some gas stations that charge more for using a card.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:22 am
Just like local banks and credit unions tend to have awesome deals on checking accounts, they can also have good deals on credit cards.
My local credit union offers a no-other-frills, fixed-rate Visa or Mastercard with 1% cash back up to $10,000 in a full calendar year and 2% beyond that. It has all the basic protections you’d expect with any Visa or Mastercard, but also nothing complicated or shady. Every January, the cash back just automatically shows up in your savings account.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:27 am
Surprised no one mentioned this already…but http://www.billshrink.com is great. You can compare cards, even to your current card, and customize the search by reward type you prefer (cash, points, miles, etc.) If you’re disciplined enough to use your card for just the stuff you need and can afford, and pay it off each month you can really save some cash.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:43 am
The best card I have found is offered by Pentagon Federal Credit Union, Platinum Cashback Rewards. You receive 5% cash back on gas purchased at the pump, 2% on supermarket, and 1.25% on everything else. The best part is the cash back is applied to your statement EACH MONTH. No waiting until the end of the year to receive a check. The 5% on gas can add up to substantial savings for some folks. I believe there is a $30 one time fee to join the credit union if you are non-military.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:48 am
In response to post #2.
Why does one assume that if a credit card is used one must be buying something that cannot be afforded? I use the ynab budgeting philosophy so the only money that I spend on my credit cards is money that I have earned last month and has been allocated in my virtual envelopes. Then the full balance of my credit cards are automatically deducted by the bank on the due date. This makes it very difficult to spend more than I can afford. I get float on my bank acct and 2%-5% cash back.
I don’t use debit cards because of their lack of security and possible unfettered access to my bank account.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:53 am
I am a big fan of the Costco American Express (3% back on gas, 3% back on restaurants, 2% back on travel, 1% back on everything else). However, some retailers don’t accept American Express (mostly do to the high transaction costs) and focusing on the small businesses that feel this more I’d like to get a Visa. I’m looking into the PenFed (5% gas, 2% groceries, 1.25% everything else but it requires a federal job/military and I have neither but you can still sign up for the National Military Family Association and be eligible) and the Schwab 2% cash back looks great for focusing on investing and not worrying which card to use where. Hope that helps! That’s my 2 cents…
January 29th, 2010 at 6:56 am
I second Jimm’s http://www.billshrink.com…..everyone should check it out for cards.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:56 am
I 2nd the recommendation for a Charles Schwab Invest First. Every month you get a flat 2% back for all of your purchases. There are no annual fees for the card.
You are required to open up a free on-line Charles Schwab brokerage account where the money is instantly sent to every month. I visit my Charles Schwab Brokerage Account once per month and just transfer my monthly 2% rebate cash to my checking account.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:01 am
My husband and I are going through this same dilemma. I want to get rid of the cc he wants to have one on hand. The perks are just to pull you in. One accidental late payment and the cc company has you paying for its perk!
We finally decided to get a cc through a local bank that uses local money to finance the cc. It doesn’t have many perks BUT I’m supporting a local business and if I make a late payment I don’t sweat it- the bank won’t charge me a late fee if I’m one day late!
Go to your community bank and ask if they us local money or are they backed by a larger bank.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:17 am
I have used the same credit card for about 10 years now. No real frills just cash back at the end of the year. Cash can be used for anything I want at anytime so it has always been my best option.
Also, the credit card is issued through USAA which offers their own online retail shopping portal where I can get extra discounts at the stores I frequent online. They do this by giving some of the “alliance” money they collect from the retailer back to the buyer. An extra 1% - 3% is always a nice thing for doing no extra work.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:18 am
I find that Mint.com puts together a lot of good credit card offers in ways easy for people to understand.
That being said, they also bombard you with ads that you have to be wary of.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:25 am
PenFed Visa Platinum Rewards Card - 5% back on gas - no limits and rewards are taken out of your next statement
Citi Forward for 5% back on restaurants, anything on Amazon.com, and any kind of media purchases, have to use Thank You system
Schwab Bank Invest First CC - 2% cash back linked to brokerage account which is linked to any checking account to redeem, also no foreign exchange fees
For simplicity use PenFed for gas and Schwab for everything else.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:26 am
I found this site when I was looking for Miles sign-up bonuses:
http://www.moneybluebook.com/airline-credit-card-promotions-that-offer-free-frequent-flyer-miles/
January 29th, 2010 at 7:31 am
I gave up my frequent flier card. the value of the flight isn’t near the rewards I was getting.
I’ve been using BoA UPromise gas and groceries. I get 5% back on gas and groceries, and 1% back on everything else. It gets funneled into a UPromise account that can be used for a 529 or to pay off SallieMae loans–you can also just get a check. Combined with the additional cash back for online shopping (ranging from 1-10% back at various stores) I earn about $400 extra a year. This gets funneled as extra payments to my student loans. If I die, it will go to my nephew.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:32 am
I would also recommend the Pentagon FCU Platinum Rewards card. We have it and pay it off monthly, but even at our low level of use (gas and a few incidentals) we generally receive between $20 and $30 back each month automatically credited to the account.
Also, as a member, you can currently get new or used car loans at 3.99%. I’ve also found their customer service to be exceptional, easy to get a live person who knows what they’re talking about.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:45 am
I’ve been very happy with the Schwab InvestFirst card. 2% back on everything, paid every month. I moved my checking to Schwab a while ago for their no-ATM fees (I travel a lot), and transferring the rewards into my checking takes approximately 30 seconds once a month.
When looking, I googled around for “credit card rewards” and spent a bit of time on bankrate.com
January 29th, 2010 at 7:53 am
@Mr Credit Card:
We use our card for everything we can. Most of our household bills, all of our groceries, gas, restaurants, entertainment, etc. We charge about $3000/month but that number goes up if we’ve got a trip planned etc.
We aren’t “frequent fliers.” But we do fly up and down the west coast several times per year–and maybe to the east coast once per year. The main reason we picked alaska is because they have the best west coast flight options other than southwest. our miles are generally spent on domestic, coach class tickets. We rarely purchase upgrades and almost always fly alaska because they let you combine miles and money to reduce the fairs of their flights. Lately, though, we’ve been able to get better airfares on Jetblue and so Alaska has started to lose some of its luster.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:53 am
I use a money-back card which has no annual fee. I don’t carry a balance from month to month, so the interest rate is essentially irrelevant to me. The money bonus is paid annually. Would be nice to get it monthly, but on the other hand, since it comes around year-end it helps with gift-buying.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:57 am
Mike @ 12 and Jen @ 21 — I agree!!!
I love my PenFed card — I actually did NOT have to pay the fee — I just filled out the application and chose the option saying I had a roomate that was in the military (true). Then a $5 in my checking and applied for the card. AMAZING rewards — it is put right back on the statement. I got like $50 last month just spending like I normally do. Awesome!
January 29th, 2010 at 8:00 am
I use Mint.com, which has a nice credit card tool that looks at your current credit card spending (or numbers you put in, if you don’t currently have a credit card) and finds cards that will save you money.
I ran some numbers myself and found that the Amazon.com Visa card was best for the way I spend. However, I didn’t qualify when I applied, because I did not already have a credit card. So I got a 1% cash back card from my credit union — just a flat 1% on everything. Better than nothing for sure, and credit union means it has lower rates.
I have never spent money I didn’t have in the past — debit card only — and don’t intend to start now. The card is just a tool to get the 1% cash back, and to get some consumer protection in cases where I might need it.
ETA: I should probably note how I ran my numbers. I made a spreadsheet of several rewards cards I found via Mint.com, including their annual fees, rewards categories and percentages/points (converting the points into cash back % — I looked through the rewards to figure out how many points you needed to buy a $50 gift card or similar), and any bonuses.
Then I went through my spending for the past 2 years, and found my average monthly spending in all the rewards categories. I then computed how much cash I would have gotten back over 1 year and 2 years, if I’d used each card for that average monthly spending. The card with the highest cash back won. (I also checked some airlines rewards cards, and found out how many free flights I could have gotten, as well as their approximate cash value. I found that cash back cards tended to be better. And the Amazon card offers flight rewards at a good points rate, so I have that option too.)
January 29th, 2010 at 8:07 am
The two best credit cards I have are a Costco AmEx and a Discover card. Both give great points, although I have no idea what the interest rate is - I pay them monthly. I’ll never depart with the Discover card cause its my longest credit card history. But my point here is that not every merchant takes those two cards - so I have to carry a Visa or Mastercard with it. Frankly that sucks - I hate having a fat wallet (unless its fat with cash). So if you are going to carry only one card - make it a Visa or Mastercard.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:10 am
I do all my banking at Schwab, and they have a card with unlimited 2% cash back on all purchases that is automatically deposited directly into your account at the end of each month. It’s a great return and it’s nice not having to screw around with converting “points” to rewards all the time.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:13 am
Amex Starwood Card wins the Freddie award every year. If you travel, it is an outstanding card because it not only gives you Starwood Points, but you can convert those points on a 1.25 mile-1 point ratio to just about any airline.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:14 am
I use the Capital One Platinum Mastercard, it has no annual fee and double miles for every dollar spend. You can use the rewards on just about anything. I get a free trip just about every year if go continental, or every other year if I want to go abroad. Also, though not monetary, I get a kick out of the custom picture I put on it.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Mr. Arnold from Cardratings said it best.
Cash is King.
He is right. Which is a bit ironic. Actually those three words could have been the entire post.
I side with commenter #2. CC are junk.
Most people are staring right at the tree. Take a step back and clear your mind.
Using a credit card is borrowing money. Plain and simple. Sometimes you pay interest, sometimes you don’t. But it is still borrowing money. It is a loan.
Why would anyone get a loan for groceries. For a gallon of milk. For fuel. For a hamburger.
People focus on the convienence, the rewards, the security, etc. That is by design. The rewards are there to distract you from the foundation of the card. Its purpose.
It is a loan. That is what banks do. They are not in the reward business. Or the convienence business. They are in the loan business.
I have said it here before. There is simply no reason when factoring risk to ever use a credit card except for credit.
And the reason that it is assumed that most people who use a credit card can’t afford what they are borrowing, i mean buying, is because that is the truth. A majority of cardholders carry a balance. Most people don’t save, buy what they can’t afford, go into debt to do it. Most people are paycheck to paychek. They live on the edge.
They work at jobs they don’t like to buy things they don’t need with money they don’t have to impress people they don’t know.
It really is unbelieveably amazing.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:35 am
Troy,
My wife and I have had the same credit card for 10 years. We put everything on it, pay it off every month, and earned extra rewards for her charging clients on the card, us paying the balance, and them reimbursing us later. A trips to Ireland, PEI, and Peru, an electronic record of each purchase cent, and not having to keep up with cash make a CC a pretty good deal for the disciplined.
Simple rule…if you can’t buy it outright, don’t put it on the card. Ever.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:36 am
First, good for JD not posting links which get him a kickback for promoting specific cards - that’s common in financial blogs and this non-self serving post is really appreciated.
I posted about this recently on my mostly non-financial blog:
http://unclezeb.blogspot.com/2009/12/best-cash-back-credit-card-offers-and.html
Here’s the relevant portion:
Some people should not have any credit cards at all - reflect on your financial situation personal spending issues before continuing.
If you don’t carry a balance on your credit card and can avoid the temptation to overspend because you have a credit card, you should take advantage of a cash back credit card. 1% back is standard, you can probably do better with a card on the list below. My list doesn’t account interest rates (which don’t matter because we’re not carrying a balance, right?) or the quality of customer service or anything other nationally available cash back cards that for general purpose spending.
It’s worth repeating - the first step is not to carry a balance. Any cash back (or miles or points) are completely negated by carrying a balance because the interest rates are more than usually absurd with cash back and other rewards cards. If you carry a balance, ignore my list and instead check out Get Rich Slowly instead.
Cash back is generally better than miles or points - some disagree, but they’re wrong.
So, which card or cards should you get? It depends. Some cards offer more rewards (American Express and Discover) because they charge merchants higher fees. But, these cards are accepted by fewer merchants. Others are more widely accepted (Visa and MasterCard) because they charge merchants lower fees; however, the result is that they usually offer lower rewards.
A common strategy is to carry more than one card: for example, your Costco Business Card is from American Express, it offers 4% back on gas and 3% on dining out/travel. Your Charles Schwab Card is from Visa, it’s accepted in more places but offers a lower reward. So, use the AmEx Costco card for gas and restaurants which take it and the Charles Schwab Card everywhere else. But don’t get carried away: a card for every type of merchant or even for every individual merchant reaches a point of diminishing returns very quickly! My suggestion: more than 3 credit cards in your wallet is probably a waste of time.
Applying for credit cards can be bad for your credit score. Applications result in a “hard pull”. Too many (or any) hard pulls will lower your credit score. Curious for an estimate of your credit score? Check out CreditKarma.com
(A) The Best Cash Back Credit Cards:
Charles Schwab - Visa
Excellent all around and widely accepted card, highly recommended, some initial setup time required.
2% cash back on everything, BUT you need to have a Schwab Brokerage Account which is only free if you have a Schwab Checking Account which is only free if you sign up for “e-correspondence” (no snail mail).
Pentagon Federal Visa
1.25% on everything 5% on gas
Need to join an organization to get the card - costs about $15. Excellent all around and widely accepted card especially if you buy lots of gas or cannot qualify for the Charles Schwab card above.
Citi FORWARD - Visa
5 “ThankYou” points (about 3% cash) on books, movies, music and restaurants, 1% points on everything else.
Points are not the same as cash, here 160 points can be turned in for $1 of cash reward. (There are some extra points you can earn when you first sign up for the card, pay on time, or agree to paperless statements.
The Citi MTVU card is a similar alternative to the Forward card, but it is targeted at college students and offers a higher interest rate (but you’re not carrying a balance, right!?)
Both Forward and MTVU cards offer 100 points for $1 in rewards applied to student loan, so that’s better than getting cash back (which takes 100 points for $0.625).
TrueEarnings Business Card from Costco - American Express
4% cash back on gas and restaurant purchases,
3% back on restaurants,
2% back for travel
1% everywhere else (including Costco - where you cannot use any other card)
Free with Costco membership.
They send a check, no points or other accounts or other bullshit.
Many people say they get the business card by simply using their name as their business name, thus getting better rewards from the same card.
Runners up:
(1) Your current card:
If you currently have a card that seems better, it may not be recommended above because it may not be available anymore (e.g., the OLD Chase Freedom card which offered 3% on your top 3 spending categories and have an extra $50 back when you reached $200 in rewards. There is still a Chase Freedom card, but it now has “rotating” 3% categories, no $50 bonus, and an annual fee for many people).
(2) AmEx Blue - 1% back on everything until you spend $6,500 … then it’s 5% back on everything. Annual fee. This is a deal for some people, but not for most. Also, it’s an AmEx card so it’s not accepted in many places, which makes it harder to get to that $6,500.
(3) Fidelity Rewards American Express [fatwallet discussion and application link]
2% cash back everywhere - you can put the cash back into any Fidelity account including non-retirement accounts like a Fidelity brokerage account, MySmartCash account, etc.
Serviced by through FIA Card Services (BoA - so applying for it it might affect your other B0A or FIA credit cards like the Charles Schwab card mentioned above).
NOT as good as the Schwab Card above because it’s not as widely accepted, but another option.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:37 am
We have the Citicard that gives 1% cash back. If you’re doing international travel, the capital one card would be better because it has a 0% foreign transaction fee (citicards is 3%). Sadly Capital One closed my card on me for inaction rather than switching it to a rewards card.
The Schwab card sounds like a great deal. We’re too lazy to add another card, but if citicard ever hassles us, that’s what we would add. I think I have a Schwab account somewhere…
Wells Fargo keeps trying to get us to buy a card that gives 1% back on our mortgage, which would be a neat idea for some people. Personally I prefer occasional cash.
And no, we don’t have any trouble with credit card use. Not everybody does. Purchases are planned in advance. Cash goes through my hands like water, but getting out the credit card is a pain. Thank goodness vending machines don’t take credit card.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:39 am
“The perfect is the enemy of the good.” A smart man told me that. In other words, don’t spend too much time looking for the BEST card when you can find one with no annual fee, online bill pay, and cash back rewards. If you always pay in full, all the other legal jargon in the card agreement is moot.
I have an amazon.com card that gets 1 point on all purchases, 2 points on gas and dining out and 3 points on amazon.com purchases. Every 5000 points you can redeem it for a $50 check, which is as good as money! There are no blackout dates, restrictions, or rules when you have money. The answer is simple cashback trumps points everytime.
My dad always talks good about his discover card, 1% cash back, plus 5% cash back on certain purchases, which differ each quarter. I like consistency, so I stay with my amazon card.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Credit cards, especially American Express, offer some very useful benefits - American Express extends warranties, will repair or replace certain purchases if damaged, lost, or stolen within the first 90 days of ownership, will accept returns within a certain period of time if merchants won’t, offers rental car insurance, has great customer service, and is more likely to side with customers in a dispute. For those reasons (read: the peace of mind), it’s worth using an Amex card.
Charles Schwab also has great benefits - I love their unlimited ATM fee refunds (international even) for checking. Their Visa card is simple - unlimited 2% cash back, no foreign transaction fees or anything. They also have excellent customer service.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:46 am
@2 & @31:
Not everyone is comfortable carrying cash. Things happen.
Example: At Christmastime a family member and their co-worker has their wallets stolen from their workplace: the family member was carrying $150 in cash, gone, the co-worker’s credit card was immediately used to buy $800 in electronics - all taken care of by their credit card company.
I think GRS readers have proven to be a very introspective and responsible lot, not the kind of people you are deriding.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am
I had Visa, Mastercard & Diner’s before. Honestly, I wouldn’t recommend it because most people have the tendency to overspend. In my case, I woke up one morning in deep credit card MESS, in capital letters! I had to learn debt elimination techniques to get myself out of that quick sand of a situation. Thank God! I came out alive… LoL
January 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am
We use a Discover More card for almost everything…it gives us 1% cash back on everything and 5% cash back on certain categories that change every three months.
We also use a Discover Open Road card to get 5% cash back on gas and car expenses like oil changes.
We use Discover cash back to buy discounted gift cards. We usually use $20 to buy a $25 Bath and Body Works gift card since we like their hand soap. We also use $45 to buy $50 Starbucks gift cards…I then take the $50 gift card to Starbucks and either buy five $10 cards or two $25 cards instead. Those make great gifts!
Finally, we have a Worldpoints Mastercard we use anywhere that doesn’t accept Discover…it gives us points you can trade in for airline miles or cash. We use it to get 1% cash back.
I’ve also heard awesome things about the Schwab Visa and the Penfed Visa that are mentioned above. I’ve been happy with Discover, but if they change, I would look into those.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:48 am
@ mac (#24)
I don’t know how you can claim that you aren’t frequent fliers, when by most people’s standards, one trip per year is a lot. I’m lucky to fly once every five years on personal travel.
On a more serious note… How far are your trips up and down the coast? Clear to Alaska or just within California to Washington? If the later, maybe it would be a good idea to look at one of the cards with good cash rewards for gas purchases and start driving - the west coast has some beautiful scenery!
January 29th, 2010 at 8:52 am
lol i like how there were promo codes attached to most of those links… sneaky sneaky
January 29th, 2010 at 9:09 am
My wife and I use the Costco AmEx card as many others here have said. We use it only for Costco trips, gas, and monthly bills. Unfortunately, not all merchants accept AmEx so we carry a Visa, too. The Visa, however, stays in the safe until we need. Out of site = out of mind.
We budget a biweekly cash “allowance” for both us that covers incidentals and luxuries (like coffee) and use our check card for everything else.
I’m not a huge fan of credit, but I like having my bills automated on a card which makes paying them quite easy. Some would argue that this can be done with a check card, too. Yes, that’s true; however, I enjoy getting the rebate check from Costco each year which usually equals one monthly trip to the warehouse.
Like many things in life, credit can be a great a tool; it can also be a great temptation.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Mac, will you explain what changes to the Alaska card have you looking to move? I also have that card so your post has me a bit nervous — did I miss something?
January 29th, 2010 at 9:20 am
The Charles Schwab Visa (2% back on everything deposited each month into a Schwab account) has been outstanding. Also, no junk foreign-transaction fee if you buy things in foreign currency: Schwab and Capital One are the only folks who don’t charge 1%-5% for this.
The Schwab Visa has been pulled from active marketing, so it’s hard to find a link to apply:
https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/home/brokerage_accounts?cmsid=CC-BROKERAGE-ACCOUNT
Here’s more specific information on the Schwab Visa if you’re interested:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/883571/
January 29th, 2010 at 9:21 am
PenFed has the best rewards card out there bar none.
Of course, they are an extremely conservative credit union. Even if you qualify for the card you may only have an initial limit of a few thousand dollars.
If your credit is decent then I don’t see any reason to even think about any other card.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Schwab Invest First 2% Cashback Reward Signature Visa
Penfed Platinum Visa (5% gas, 2% grocery, 1% everything, occasionally they have other deals from particular vendors or types of purchases ex. over the summer it was 5% on airline tickets and then there was 5% on school supplies)
Chase Perfectcard Mastercard (3% cashback on gas, 1% on everything, plus another cashback rewards site that varies by vendor)
Driver Select Mastercard (1 point for every mile one drives, great if you drive a lot)
January 29th, 2010 at 9:28 am
I’m not sure if the Chase Freedom card, which used to give 3% back on the top 3 categories but was since made much less attractive, is still available but I have two and always used one for gas, grocery, and drugstore purchases, while the other was used for everything else (giving me 3% back on my top SIX categories).
Since they crippled the rewards program, one card went to 1% back on everything plus 3% back on rotating categories, while the other one went to 1% back on everything, an additional 2% (3% total) back on gas, groceries, and fast food (I wish it were drugstores instead), plus an additional 2% back on rotating categories, so I just use that one for everything. I never pay attention to the rotating categories; if I get a bonus, then great, I know I’m doing better than a straight 1%-back card. (I pay no fees for either card.)
Oh, and my wife uses our Discover Open Road card for gas, which is 5% back, but only on the first $100 per month, which she usually spends on her own, so I just take the 2% from Chase. Once that $100 limit is reached (and for all other non-gas or auto-service purchases), the cash back is only 0.25% so the Chase rebate is 8 times bigger!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am
In looking through a variety of different travel blogs and forums (including flyertalk.com) I think a general consensus of the best all around travel card is the Starwood American Express. It is a one to one conversion for Alaska Airlines Mileage program and you get a 5,000 bonus when you transfer 20,000 points. It also has a fairly low yearly fee at $45. If you ever move you can simply transfer the points to a different airline.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Also, several credit cards (Citibank, Discover, and Bank of America, to name the ones I have) have areas of there websites for online purchases where you can get additional cash back, sometimes as high as 20%! (on useful things, too; I’ve gotten 10% back from drugstore.com and zappos.com)
However, you have to remember to look and you have to link to the retailer’s website from the credit card site. With three different site to check, this process can be time consuming; I’d LOVE a website that can automatically show you results from the different programs!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:40 am
My wife and I have 2 credit cards with rewards(we pay the balance in full every month):
Discover More - 5% cash back on categories that change every 2-3 months (travel, grocery, home, gas, restaurants for 2010) and 1% cash back on everything else. they credit the cash to your balance once you get so much (~$50 i think)
Costco American Express - 3% on gas, 3% on restaurants, 2% on travel, 1% on everything else. they give you store credit every year
January 29th, 2010 at 9:43 am
I have had and used the same Citi card since I was in college. It has rewards which can be used for just about anything but I am not sure they are such a good deal. I am also not thrilled with Citibank in general, though I will not give up the card because it’s my oldest - I’m too young yet to shorten my credit history.
I just applied for a new card for the first time in YEARS. It’s a Wells Fargo Visa that pays 1% toward my mortgage principle. No annual fee and I don’t care about interest since I don’t carry a balance. I plan to use this one for everything going forward - I’d rather put a little dent in my mortgage than shop for “stuff” on Citi’s rewards site.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:48 am
To #2 and #33, huh?
For people who pay off their balances every month, we get rewards for using our credit cards and want to optimize those rewards. That is the purpose of today’s topic. If you don’t use credit cards, you can wait and see if tomorrow’s topic applies to you.
But for the rest of us, it’s a good topic. I get about $300 back every year from my card and haven’t paid interest or a late fee in 10 years (ever since I began managing my money wisely).
That means I’ve made at least $3,000 with this method, and have paid $0 in costs. That’s way better than the $0 you’ve made by not using a credit card.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:12 am
We use the UPROMISE CREDIT CARD. We have a 529 account set up for our daughter. The credit card earnings get transferred quarterly to her 529 account. The card itself pays 1% on all purchases PLUS it allows you to earn different additional percentages in different ways. I have been averaging about 3% a year return on purchases which includes only buying the things I want at what I consider a fair price. Here are some of the ways:
1. Linking grocery and drug store cards to the account. (Usually you can earn a percentage of certain items bought from a grocery store, very small overall impact but ties to the ecoupons below also)
2. Linking credit cards and bank cards to the account. (Decent impact as other programs below are tied to the usage of the cards)
3. Gas Rewards Program-(When buying gas at certain stations with a linked card (e.g. Exxon) you can earn 2% of the purchase)
4. Upromisie Dining Rewards Program-Once you indicate on the Upromise website that you want to participate in the Dining Rewards Program you will earn a % of the total bill at any particpating restaurants when using a linked credit/debit card. Decent %s (like 4-8%), but few participating restaurants.
5. Ecoupons-Select ecoupons each month for items you might buy and earn a set amount (eg. $1.00 for Bounty) with a linked grocery card if you buy the item.
6. Online Shopping-Earn certain percentages or set dollar amounts at different online stores or services if you shop there after linking through the Upromise Account. Recently earned an additional 5% on a best buy purchase.
7.) Upromise has other ways you can earn percentage as well that I haven’t tried including car loans, etc..
A nice feature of the program is adding your friends and family to your account. They set up the their own account like you did and then can send their earnings to your account or split them up between different individuals. If you have a couple of family members that is willing to do this you could earn over $1000 a year.
Another nice feature is that they just partnered with Sallie Mae loans, so that any funds you accumulate can also go to pay of those school loans after you or your child graduates so there is no reason to give up the card if you have loans but no one in school.
I seriously considered American Express Blue Cash, but AMEX isn’t taken everywhere and after doing the calculations based on past purchases I came out on top with Upromise.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Credit cards can be useful if you have the discipline to only use credit cards for items that you would purchase with cash anyway, and pay off the balance in full each month. If you don’t have that self-discipline, you should use cash.
That being said, I love getting cash back while being fiscally responsible. Abe’s summary (#35) above is very good. Many of the best cash-back credit cards are no longer available, so if you have a good one, hold onto it.
I have a Chase Free Cash Rewards card that pays 5% on gas, groceries and drugstores, and 1% on everything else. I have a Chase BP card that pays 5% on BP gas, and 2% on travel/dining. And I have a Marriott Rewards card for business expenses. I alternate between the three to maximize my savings. My grocery store only accepts debit cards, but I save so much shopping there compared to the big guys that I am happy to use my debit card for that purpose only.
Some guidelines I like to follow:
1. You should be getting at least 1% cash back on every transaction. I expect to get 5% back on gas every time. No exceptions. Rewards can make a big difference in your budget over the course of a year! But only if you are responsible with credit.
2. Make sure there isn’t an annual fee, unless the benefits truly outweigh the cost of the annual fee. The Marriott card I use has a small annual fee, but the rewards I get from it outweigh the fee. My wife loves the free hotel nights.
3. Don’t let the card issuer “downgrade” you. Chase tried to sell me on their “Sapphire” card. The Sapphire card is a stripped down version of the card I already have, with less cash back. Why would I switch?
4. Redeem your rewards! If you are going to use a rewards card, stay on top of redeeming your rewards. Get them only in cash (no impulse spending), and deposit the check into a savings account or other interest-bearing account.
5. Most credit cards allow your points/miles to expire if not redeemed. It takes a little bit of discipline to stay on top of this.
6. If you can’t handle 1-5 above, stay away from credit cards. Just use a cash budget. I like Gail’s “cash jar” concept for people that can’t figure out their monthly budget on their own.
Just my $0.02.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Depending on your destinations along the West Coast, I’m surprised you have not considered the Southwest Airlines Visa card.
The rewards scheme is a little convoluted, but not too much so:
16 credits gets you a free flight on Southwest (which flys all over California and Washington). You get a credit for each flight you take on Southwest (you don’t have to deal with miles), you get a credit for every $1200 you spend on your credit card with certain categories of spending counting double towards this goal (i.e., southwest airline tickets and certain other expenditures).
Works great for our family because we fly between Texas and California a lot.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:27 am
I use the American Express Blue Cash card. Most people are better off with some of the flat 2% cards mentioned above. The main problem is the requirement to spend $6,500 before the higher rates kick in. However, if you spend a lot each year and spend a significant portion of that on “everyday” purchases (grocery, drug store, and gas stations), it can beat out the flat rate 2%.
This thread has got me thinking about using the Blue Cash up to the $6,500 and then only using it for “everyday” while using a flat rate 2% card on everything else.
For places that don’t take American Express I use the Barnes & Noble Mastercard. It gets me 1% back in the form of Barnes & Noble gift cards (every $2500 I spend earns me a $25 gift card which is sent immediately), the annual fee of $25 is the Barnes & Noble membership fee (which gets me 10% off at Barnes & Noble and I have always paid for anyway) and when I use it at Barnes & Noble I get another 5% credit on my bill.
I am an avid reader and aspiring author so this has saved me a lot of money over the years. But I also used it when I was in college to purchase text books.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:40 am
I use a Fidelity Visa that gives me 1.5% on all purchases. I already have a Fidelity account so it’s more convenient than the similar Schwab card, even though the Schwab card gives a bit more back.
For grocery store purchases I use a Citi Dividend Platinum card, which gives some kind of bonus (it used to be 5% but I think it might be down to 3%). I don’t know if they even still offer this card, it’s not on their website. I would use it for gas too except my wife is the one who gets our gas and she can’t be bothered to learn the rules about what card to use where
Back when I flew coast-to-coast a lot I didn’t have a mileage card because they didn’t offer as many bonus miles, nor did they have the fancy cards of recent years that offer points for miles flown. I still fly a few times a year, but frequent flier miles have inflated/devalued so much that I am quite firmly in the “cashback is king” camp.
I try to avoid American Express, both due to limited acceptance and high fees to merchants I am doing business with.
I do agree that not using a credit card would lower my spending - because it would be such a pain to go to the ATM so often! I am not interested in lowering my spending, so I prefer using a credit card as much as possible.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Regarding #51
Mike,
The site evreward.com is a friendly site for checking which programs offer what amount back. For example go to the site and type in “target.” It will then list what cards offer rebates at target.com. Then hit “go” next to the program you want to use and it will take you to that site.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Mac
Based on what you say, here is my analysis. There are three things you have to do:
1. Breakdown your expenses between airline tickets and the “rest”.
2. Note which awards you use.
3. Figure out which card gives you the most points
4. Figure out if an airline card is better than a regular rewards card.
Let’s go through the whole process:
1. Firstly, let’s go through the cards that may suit you.
Alaska Airline credit card - The advantage of this card is that you can earn 3 miles for every dollar that you spend on Alaska and Air Horizon tickets. Plus, every year, you get a $99 companion ticket.
2. Jet Blue - Amex issues the Jet Blue credit card. They have got one of the lowest fees for an airline credit card. Unlike the Alaska card, you do not get the discounted companion ticket.
3. Membership Rewards - You could possibly get one Amex cards with memberhip rewards like the Gold Card. Southwest and Jet Blue are on their program so you can transfer points to miles. Alaska Airlines is not on their partner list though you can use their travel site to book any airline tickets you want.
4. Diners Club - Has Alaska Airlines and Southwest as their airline partners.
5. Starwood Preferred Guest - The starwood preferred guest program allows you to transfer points to over 30 airlines. Alaska airlines is in their program but southwest and jet blue are not. However, you can still use your points to book flights with them through their booking system.
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/transfer/airline_partner_list.html
6. Regular credit card reward programs. If you get a card like say the Chase Sapphire, or Amex Blue, you can use their travel booking portal and book your flights. Every 100 points you have will save you $1 - equals to a 1% rebate.
7. Southwest credit card.
Now we have to find out how many points you use.
For the Alaska Mileage Plan, there is the super saver, choice coach and full flex coach. For travel within a state like California, the point requirements are 15K, 25k and 35k respectively for roundtrip coach. For flights within the Continental US, relevant for your east coast trips, the point requirements are 25k, 40k and 55k respectively.
http://www.alaskaair.com/as/mileageplan/AwardsUSACanada.asp
As I am writing this, the Jet Blue TrueBlue Award site is down, but you can do your own research.
Like I mentioned earlier, for regular credit card programs, you get a 1% rebate equivalent. So a $300 ticket requires 30,000 points.
With all the options laid out, you have to find out
1. How many points you can earn with each different card.
2. How many points you need to redeem (will be different for different programs)
3. Figure out which card gives you the most bang for the buck.
I suspect this may be a bit difficult in your case because you use a couple of airlines. And the airlines you use, Alaska, Southwest and JetBlue, the best reward programs like Starwood, Membership Rewards and Diners Club do not have all three on their programs. Here’s what I think:
If you find that you are still flying mostly with Alaska - then keeping your existing card may be a good option because you can earn triple points, they allow you to pay flights with points and cash and you get the $99 annual companion ticket (which I think is valuable). You might also want to consider the Starwood preferred guest because when you transfer 20,000 points into Alaska miles, Starwood would give you an extra 5,000 bonus miles. You can also use Starpoints to book your flights for your non-alaska flights and the points required are less than regular credit card programs. See link below
http://www.spgflights.com/travel/arc.cfm?tab=a&EM=VTY_SPG_FLIGHTS
If you find yourself flying mostly Jet Blue, then it is pretty obvious that you should get the Jet Blue Card.
If you decide to fly Southwest and Jet Blue, then perhaps Amex Gold or Platinum may work?
I have also checked out the main airline alliance like Star Alliance and Sky Team. Both do not have all three airlines that you could fly on the same program, so it makes answering your question a little trickier.
At the end of the day, I think the proportion of flight on the different airlines will determine which card will get you the most bang for the buck. Unfortunately, reading every comment here is not going to help. You have to (and I’ll repeat again).
1. break down you expenses into airline tickets and others.
2. breakdown how much you spend on each airline.
3. Figure out how many points you can earn on each card or combination of cards.
4. Figure out how many points it takes to redeem for each flight on each program.
5. If you have made it so far, the choice should be pretty clear.
I suspect that one of the cards I mentioned would be the best for you. But if you find that a regular reward program credit card works better, then do research on citi premierpass, chase sapphire, amex blue, amex blue sky, discover escape.
Good Luck. If you have any questions, just shoot me an email via the contact form on the top of my site.
Mr Credit Card
January 29th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Someone may have already pointed this out, but a lot of places, especially on the West Coast, do not accept American Express cards. A friend just moved out from Chicago and found he can’t ever use his American Express and so he ended up having to get a new card.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:01 am
#54
$300 per year “back”.
Wow.
I don’t get anything “back” but I don’t give anything to get back.
However I do pay cash and usually get a discount. I saved a couple thousand dollars due to this complicated strategy last year.
Keep your $300.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:03 am
I really like the Schwab credit card if you will definitely be paying it off every month. It gives 2% cash back monthly, although you need to set up a free brokerage account(and checking too?) It is also one of the best cards for international travel, because it doesn’t charge an fee when used out of the country.
I’m a big fan of their ATM card as well, you can use it anywhere and they will reimburse you any fees charged by ATMs (possibly with a limit on the monthly total).
We actually don’t use the credit card for most everyday purchases because we’ve found the cash back doesn’t make up for how easy it is to spend more. If you end up spending 10-15% more on purchases, you end up worse off overall.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Re: #60
efk22: Thanks, that’s exactly what I was looking for!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:08 am
If I cared that much about saving 1% there are other ways I could do that besides getting a credit card. That’s just me though.
Credit card “rewards” aren’t a gift, they’re a 1% discount on everything you purchase with the card. Personally, the hassle of keeping an account open with a credit card company isn’t worth a 1% discount on the things I buy. And the fewer things you buy, the less difference 1% back makes. To get $300/year back, you have to be spending $30,000 at places that accept credit cards.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:12 am
As I mentioned above, I have the Alaska card. I like the card and their miles program, especially now that I have enough miles to be MVP. This is due to a combination of flying, and using my CC.
Once you are MVP you earn 1.5 miles for each mile flown, so it helps you maintain MVP status. As an MVP you are not charged for checking bags, you get to board early, and you get automatic first class upgrades when they are available. You also get a better choice of seats when booking coach (exit row, row 6, some others). These perks are quite nice.
The companion coupon is wonderful. Used to be $50, now it’s $99. It’s very easy to book travel using miles, and they often have miles “sales” so that flying cross-country, direct, might only be 20K miles.
The drawback is that the card has a fee, $75 per year. I still think it’s worth it for the perks but it does stick in my craw.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Tyler- If you just used a credit card for the 5% cash back on gas, you could get to the $300 in cash back with just $6,000 in spending. For those that need a car to commute to their jobs, that adds up in a hurry.
Most people need gas (or groceries). Why not get some cash back on it? Some gas stations do offer a cash discount, but it’s usually nowhere near 5%. Plus in my state, you can get free baseball tickets on top of the cash back. Free entertainment and a discount for something I have to buy anyway? Done!
Not sure why there are posts bashing credit card rewards. I have no problem with people using a cash budget. For some, that makes the most sense. But don’t criticize others that choose to get a discount on every purchase they need to make.
My wife and I are frugal–part of that includes maximizing our value with everything we purchase (cash back, points/miles, etc.). There is no reason to buy anything in this economy without a discount, or preferably multiple discounts (percentage off at purchase, plus cash back/miles/points).
January 29th, 2010 at 11:30 am
To Troy: What’s bad about a loan with a negative interest rate? That is, why not borrow money if somebody pays me to do it?
January 29th, 2010 at 11:34 am
My wife and I use a Fidelity MC that contributes 2% of all purchases to my oldest daughter’s 503b account with Fidelity. No annual fee, and we pay the balance in full. We use this card for EVERYTHING that we can; groceries, cell phone, comcast, etc.
I find the convenience of using credit cards, the ability to dispute a charge, and the reward is the best deal for ME, not for most Americans who carry a balance.
One other tip to prevent late charges: Set up a recurring bill payment on your online banking account for $50, one day before the due date. Go back and edit that amount for the full balance to avoid late charges and interest.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:35 am
@49
I also use the Chase Freedom and was initially annoyed by the rewards program change but I have actually been making more now simply because I happen to have my checking there as well (they ate the bank, that ate the bank, that ate the local bank I bank at :)).
With a checking account there I in addition to the 1 point per dollar I also get 10 points for each purchase with my card. Since I purchase everything with my card it adds up fast.
Although I have looked at Schwab in the past and that lack of foreign transaction fee has me wondering about switching!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:43 am
We love our Discover card, for the combination of cash back and good customer service. Twice I’ve been ripped off on a major purchase, and both times Discover came through for me.
We’ve canceled cards in the past because although the rewards were great, the service was total shite.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@Jeff:
At 25mpg and $3/gallon, $6,000 in gas spending is 50,000 miles of driving. So you save $300 over half (maybe a quarter) the lifetime of your car. Alternatively, if your car gets 26.32 miles per gallon instead of 25, you save the same $300 over 50,000 miles.
Which isn’t to say you don’t get anything from the rewards, you certainly do, it’s just that it really isn’t very much (in my opinion).
January 29th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Does the Schwab card also offset the fees that Visa/Mastercard hide in the exchange rate? Are Visa/MC still doing that after the class action lawsuit?
I use my credit union debit card for both ATM and “credit card” purchases overseas. They charge a 1% fee, but the exchange rate is 100% pure.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
@Michael Sitarzewski: “The best credit card is no credit card at all. Live debt free, and don’t buy things you can’t afford.”
Please stop parroting this nonsense. We are adults, we are not children, we can have an available line of credit and restrain ourselves from using it.
Credit cards are, far and away, the most convenient method of payment, are a huge help in streamlining your finances, and (as this thread shows) can earn you a not insignificant amount of money.
(I’ve had people try to tell me that cash(!) is more convenient to carry around than credit cards, if you can believe it)
The “don’t use a credit card because you might go nuts and get into debt” advice is good, but it’s only for people who have that particular problem, not for those who have their financial life together.
In short: using a credit card for purchases is not the same as being n debut, please stop patronizing people for no reason.
Oh yeah, to add my votes: I use the Amex Blue Cash, and get a few hundred dollars out of it each year (pretty much all my expenses go through that card).
I’ve also been looking at the 2% Fidelity Rewards Amex, but it doesn’t work with my BoA “eBills” thing (which is something I’m used to having).
January 29th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I personally have the best credit card EVER:
NONE.
Emergency? It’s called emergency money, and it’s saved. Anybody relying on credit cards for emergencies is flirting with fire.
Charlie.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
The BEST credit card is….
NO CREDIT CARD!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Why should I not use credit cards when I could:
- automatically pay balances in full every month (except the promotion deals such as 12 months no interest from Home Depot and Lowes), i.e. borrow money for free
- earn 2% interest monthly on the amount that will be used to pay the balances by putting money in MMA or saving accounts,
- earn 1% back for creating those balances.
In summary, I borrow no-interest money to earn 3% back monthly, and I fully take responsibilities for borrowing/paying back in full.
Then, why should I not use credit cards?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Ask credit card haters why they are so against credit cards and they will give you a sad story about themselves or someone they know getting into credit card debt. Boo-hoo. Nobody forced you to swipe the card. Grow up.
In the meantime, I’ll gladly take 2% on the purchases I would make anyway. If a store offers a bigger discount to use cash, I use cash. Otherwise, credit cards help me keep track of my expenses and give me a little cash back. The key is only buying what you were going to buy anyway…willpower problems need not apply.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
To answer the above question, the reason consumers shouldn’t use credit cards is because study after study has shown that consumers utilizing less transparent payment forms (i.e. credit vs. cash) spend more.
It is certainly possible, and since you read GRS, probable that you are an exception. But I found when I switched from credit to debit my discretionary spending was, on average, reduced by 30-40% per month. I always paid my credit cards in full and collected miles up the wazooo. Comparing my spending habits from 2007 forward to my spending habits from 2000-2006, I found that I spent @$5,000 more per year in day to day spending (i.e. eating out, clothes, shoes, entertainment, weekend trips, gifts for others) using credit. Yes I flew for free, but I spent at least $20,000 over 6 years which have, looking back, been better utilized in savings, investments, etc.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Yeah, the “the best credit card is no credit card” is great when you’re trying to teach kids how to be responsible, but it doesn’t really work on a website read by mostly (I’m assuming) already-responsible people.
I have one credit card (Bank of America Platinum Plus Cash Rewards) and it’s awesome. 1% cash back on everything; I can pay 95% of my bills through it online for free; it’s got a nice big limit; and I can use it everywhere. Plus, there are legitimate times when people absolutely NEED an extension of credit. I know I’ve been there.
Credit cards are only bad if you’re undisciplined.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I use a combination of cash back cards: Citibank Dividend Mastercard, Discover, American Express Costco, American Express Blue and Chase Freedom VISA.
I buy all my groceries with credit cards. I shop with a list, buy store brands, buy in bulk, buy the sale stuff and do most of my cooking from scratch (versa a lot of more expensive prepared foods) to save money. So I don’t think I am spending more on groceries just because I am using the cards. Before I started doing this, I was writing checks to the grocery store. I pay off card balances every month.
I just found out I can pay Verizon and Comcast with credit card so I am signing up online to do this. Why not get a little cash back from them, I am not spending any more by using my card to pay than by writing a check?
I just see taking advantage of the cash back as part of my frugality plan. Every little bit helps. I don’t pay any annual fees on the cards. To me, it is a free discount I should not pass up. If someone gave you a coupon for something you are going to buy anyway, would you pass it up?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
This is awesome.
77 comments and only a handful see the big picture.
Tyler is correct.
I could save money by walking to work too, but that would be a waste of time.
So is jacking around with credit card accounts, terms, statements, payments, changes, billing cycles, universal default, credit adjustments, credit line changes, rate and term changes, etc.
And all of the verbiage is for the benefit of the issuer, not you. It is their rules, not yours, yet so many of you think you are “winning.”
That is like having a trap set for you, but saying that it is no big deal because it hasn’t actually caught you yet. While true, it is still a concern.
Having a CC creates a concern. It increases undue risk. Risk of missing or misapplied payments, forgetfullness, automation, detachment and a host of other risks. They may be small, but they exist.
And this argument of all benefits of CC are easily debunked. Convienence…so are debit cards. Rewards, as Tyler stated, are simply a discount on purchases which you can easily beat by paying cash if that was truly your real motive. Plus they are an incentive to spend more.
Statements/accounting ease? Bank statments are exported into quicken/money all the time. My bank statement is pretty easy to read.
Security? Liability is the same for Debit and Credit Cards with Visa. Identical.
Ahh..the arbitrage of earning money for an extra month. The float. First, it is minimal. Your account may earn 3%, although unlikely, but that is not 3% each month. 3% annually is .25% per month. Since biulling cycles are typically 25 days, you are talking about maybe .20%. IF you charge $2500 per month, that is a return of $5 bucks. $5 whole dollars. And that assumes everything works perfect. And let me know where the 3% checking account exists and it is still $5.
Instead, spend $2450 and you come out ahead. And it is simpler.
Additionally, if the float is so great, why pay off the card after 30 days. why not transfer the balance to another card, and continue this cycle among 5 or ten cards for months at a time.
Because it isn’t worth it, and because the float is an excuse. So is the convience and every other “benefit” The real benefit is the false security of having your money for another 30 days until the bill is due. The buy now, I’ll pay for it later mentality. It is tough to break that mentality, but once you do, you see.
Of course I could be wrong.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I will jump aboard this conversation about credit card rewards as well. It just seems like there is actually very little reward for the amount of money being spent.
Suzanne (#54) says that she has earned $300 a year for the last 10 years using her rewards card. A total “savings” of $3000. Which means that if she has an awesome rewards program of 3% for all her spending (unheard of for the most part) she had to spend $10,000 a year or $100,000 total over the past 10 years.
Now, let’s take the research that has proven again and again that people using credit spend (conservatively) 12-17% more when they use credit as opposed to cash. Suzanne (statistically) spent $1,200 - $1,700 more a year in order to get her $300 “reward”. At the end of 10 years - if she had used cash, she would have had between $12,000 and $17,000 as opposed to her $3,000.
And if her rewards card actually gave her 1% cash back (more likely a figure) - well, then she needed to spend $30,000 A YEAR on her credit cards to earn that $300 “reward”. And if we take it out 10 years, and looked at how much more she was spending on credit as opposed to using cash (12-17% more, as proven over and over again) she could have been saving $3,600 - 5,100 a year by just using cash which clearly eclipses her 10 year “rewards” earnings in just 1 year and far surpasses them over 10 years (she could have had $36,000 - $51,000 in a nest egg at the end of the 10 years if she had used cash rather than credit cards).
Now, if after running those numbers (and those didn’t even take into account the idea of ever paying late, carrying a balance, etc which would have reduced the reward %), some of you still think you are the ones making money when you use credit cards - well, I just don’t know what would convince you that the rewards aren’t worth it.
Let em just ask one more thing - why would the banks offer these “rewards” if they truly were free? Banks started offering these rewards AFTER research proved that people spend more money (in totality) when using their credit cards.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
@Michael Sitarzewski - “try a checking account with a cash balance of $3k and a debit card instead.”
It boggles my mind when I see irresponsible advice like this. Michael…your bank must drool every time they see you drive up. Why in the world would you want to tie up that amount of money (and earn no interest) to carry a debit card?
A debit card is the worst card you can have. If it is stolen or you become a victim of fraud, it’s a direct tap into your checking account and your are immediately out the money that was debited. Ask your bank how long it will take them to replace that money (it won’t be the next day or 7 days).
At least with a credit card, any fraud that occurs, does not tap you out immediately.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
“77 comments and only a handful see the big picture.”
There is no big picture. The question posed assumes the use of credit cards and asks which is best in terms of rewards. The asker spends a given amount a month on credit cards, whether it’s on card A, B, C, etc. and wants to know WHICH CARD will benefit the most: A, B, C, etc.
Or to put it negatively for the anti-credit-card folks, which card would incur the least harm?
I mean, even if you’re pay 37% for carrying a balance, I’d rather be paying that on a card that’s giving me 3% of new purchases back than one that doesn’t.
There is no option of “no card” as the asker does not and will not carry $2000 in cash.
The only time paying with cash vs instead of charging ever saved me money was when I was able to avoid paying sales tax on my wife’s engagement ring. And the 5-cent discount at a gas station for cash is about 0.5%, assuming gas is $2.50/gal.
And if you know anyone who ever had their debit card compromised, you’d never use a debit card again; whereas having your credit card compromised is really no big deal.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
If you are interested in checking out the various cash back cards to determine which one would net you the most cash back rewards based on your monthly spending habits then try this free calculator: http://www.creditcardchaser.com/credit-card-calculators/cash-back-credit-card-calculator/
January 29th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
@Sashie
There is some good discussion about the McDonald’s study that is most often cited by Dave Ramsey and others that alleges that people spend more money when they use a credit card. I debunk that study pretty thoroughly but I would be interested to see what you think: http://www.creditcardchaser.com/dave-ramsey-credit-cards-i-love-ya-dave-but-you-are-dead-wrong/
January 29th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
I think a couple people have mentioned PenFed’s card. In general, Penfed is awesome and they have rates on stuff that are hard to beat.
I agree you would need to know more about their spending habits, but there are some good cards mentioned including Schwab - which of course is a loyalty tool for them. Something that needs to be thought through is which airline (if you end up going that route) has good flights from your hometown. I have get American Airlines miles, not because I like the airline much, but because it gets me (at least as of a few years ago) to the Caribbean for 30K miles which I would normally fork over $1,000 a ticket for. At that rate, it works out to 3.3 cents per mile or per dollar spent (sometimes they give more). I’ve done at least 20 of these tickets. I’ve never found it worthwhile to use miles for a domestic ticket. $250 tickets should not be bought with miles.
They are getting less generous with their programs and I think they bumped it up 5K miles.
So if you are going the airline route, factor in whether you can get a normally expensive ticket.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
On the big picture/little picture debate that seems to have sprung up — I’m going to make a possibly obtuse analogy that maybe people won’t understand, or maybe they will understand but they’ll dismiss anyway:
In the field of computer science, there’s an area of study called “algorithm analysis”. This is essentially the science of determining how long it takes to perform a task with a given methodology. As you might imagine, there are some tasks that can be done in two different ways, one of which is much faster than another. Let me give an example:
Presume you’re given a word, and you’re tasked with determining whether the dictionary contains that word.
Here’s two methods of determining if the dictionary contains that word:
1) Open the dictionary to the first page. Read each word. If any of them is the word you’re looking for, say “I found it!” and close the dictionary. If not, flip the page and repeat. If you get to the end of the dictionary, say “I didn’t find it”.
2) Flip the dictionary to the middle page. If the words on that page begin with a letter after the first letter of your word, stop considering the back half of the dictionary. Otherwise, stop considering the front half of your dictionary. Repeat this process, discarding half of the remaining section of dictionary each time, until you end up on a page that must contain your word (if it exists). If the page contains your word, say “I found it!” if not, say “I didn’t find it.”
Obviously, the second solution is much faster and is what we actually do when looking up a word in the dictionary (as an aside, most beginning computer science students will write the first solution, because it’s easier to implement).
Those of us on the ‘big picture” side of this credit card issue (i.e., those of us discounting ‘rewards’ as not important) are looking at rewards as a way to make turning pages in the dictionary 1% or 3% or 5% faster. It makes either method 1 or method two slightly faster, by up to 5%. But if you’re using method 1 *it’s pretty much irrelevant*. You’re going to spend way too much time flipping pages regardless. If you’re using method 2, *it’s still irrelevant*, you spend so little time flipping pages that saving a couple percent doesn’t make much of a difference.
Either way, faster page flipping is irrelevant, what you should be doing instead is thinking of ways to move from method 1 above to method 2. These are often referred to as “big wins” in other fields, like personal finance.
And yes, computer programmers really view the world this way.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Am jumping in here for this hot discussion, first i will say i want to pay off the credit card debt and be done with them. Are credit cards convenient? Yes I believe they are. There some places like rental companies which will not accept debt cards or cash. In my opinion the cost of these conveniences almost always outweighs the convenience itself. @ Molly i like the idea of supporting the local business if i was to apply for a card again(unfortunately i won’t), i would go with a local credit union card.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Trust me.
American Express Starwood card or Citi Mastercard PremierPass. Those are the best and only two for airlines.
As for you JD, Charles Schwab Visa. 2% cashback on everything no questions asked.
Over and out!
January 29th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Tyler K:
Assuming you’re going to get a credit card anyway, you’re going to do some research on the credit cards. Why not pick a card that gives 1% back? The amount of time spent searching is small given that you’re looking anyway. (Especially if you get someone to do most of the groundwork for you by asking people on an internet site you trust.)
Given that going to the ATM is costly (walking, waiting in line, pushing buttons) and entering things into the check register is a PITA (and you generally lose interest when you keep money in checking rather than savings… not as big a deal now at current rates, but potentially pretty big when savings is giving 5% or more and checking is giving ~1%)…
why wouldn’t using a credit card with cash back for all purchases be the laziest solution? I generally follow you in terms of financial laziness and I have lazily gravitated to being cash free and using my 1% card (that was a 2% card when I got it about a decade ago) as the least amount of effort. Sure I don’t need the 1% back, but it’s the factor at play when I pick between my Chase card Visa (with the lame reward points that are impossible to figure out) and my Citicard Mastercard when making a purchase. Nothing wrong with a little $80 check in the mail from time to time. (If I were less lazy, I could cash in every $50.)
It is way less hassle keeping the card open than it would be dealing with cash, even if cash didn’t run through my hands like water. Plus there’s the 1% back and the interest-free loan every month. And automatic tracking of purchases (my debit card doesn’t give as much information as my credit card does on these), dispute resolution, and protection with theft. All around not such a bad deal for very little effort on my part.
Credit cards aren’t for everybody but I dispute that they take more effort than cash.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
I am using Citi Divident too. I will take a look at PenFed, it does look attractive and I am eligible to get one. Thank you for sharing this information.
@Troy and anti-credit card gang:
Yeah, 2%, 5% cash back is actually a small number, however it’s what we earn from the borrowed free-interest money. I am not saying no to those money. 5% of bing cash back is some cash back. It’s like having discounts - I love discounts.
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“Additionally, if the float is so great, why pay off the card after 30 days. why not transfer the balance to another card, and continue this cycle among 5 or ten cards for months at a time.”
—————–
I guess you are against credit cards because: (1) you don’t know or know little about it and (2) some famous mouths had said that credit cards are evil ’cause they are evil and (3) you believe them instead of having your own opinions. My recommendation for you is to at least read a credit card term&conditions and get the idea of rates and fees involved, and please pay attention to the balance transfer fees.
Stop acting like you are the only one who knows .2% of $2500 is the whole 5 bucks.
And please stop thinking that everyone gonna get burn if he/she owns credit cards. Everyone knows that nuclear power is dangerous if it isn’t handled right. But does that mean that we should avoid nuclear energy by all means? Why not learn to get benefits from it instead?
January 29th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
I’d like to echo the comments above about the lack of protection offered by debit cards.
Not all banks will reimburse you if your debit card is stolen and used by someone else. Your entire balance could be siphoned out. So if you carry debit cards instead of credit cards, just realize the potential security issue there.
As for the credit card/no credit card argument, please refer to the original post and the actual question. If you don’t have helpful information for Mac, but can’t resist giving advice, you can certainly find 5 or 10 “credit card or no credit card” discussions in the forums to contribute to.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Alot of this argument only requires some common sense and logic.
As was stated earlier, the only reason for CC usage is credit extension. All other reasons either don’t actually exist once researched (superior convienence, liability and fraud protection, accounting benefit) or are much less impressive when actually calculated (float arbitrage, reward benefit, etc.)
Then there are those who hammer on the rewards as being the main reason. Forget the other reasons, they say, it is all about the rewards. 1%, 3%. A few hundred per year of “free money”
Then Tyler correctly points out that the reward is actually an average 1% discount on purchases(essentially). Never mind the purchase price is inflated by more than that 1% to offset the transaction cost.
So is the 1% worth it? I suppose that is debatable. I don’t think so. Some do. Fine.
Then there is the issue of spending more with a CC vs cash, and this seems to be where common sense diverges.
Who cares if a study says 12%, or 15% or if it is Fast food or DB or whomever. Use common sense.
Is it likely that by using a CC with a large open line that consumers on average will spend at least 1% more? Because that is all they have to do. Reward 1%. Spending 1%+ more.
The CC issuers and Banks seem to think so. So do the retailers. And common sense says yes. When you have a card you likely spend a little bit more. $97 instead of $95. That is 2%.
Think about this. If using a CC didn’t affect the spending patterns of consumers, or actually even lowered spending as some on here spout happens to them, why would retailers accept them. MCD’s is a multibillion dollar retailer. You think they did a little research about spending patterns before accepting electronic payments? You think they came to the conclusion that using electronic payment methods decreases spending but then just decided to install them at their thousands of locations so they could LOSE money and make LESS profit.
Or do you think that maybe common sense is called that for a reason. And that people who use money they don’t have and don’t have to have until a month later just might spend a bit more. Maybe?
And why do the banks offer rewards anyway? Why the benefits?
Because it encourages usage. Usage creates fees. It creates interest payments, and it increases profit. These are BILLION dollar companies with THOUSANDS of attorneys, marketing people, MBA’s etc and you think you are winning. By doing exactly what they want you to do. ok.
When I say step back and see the big picture, it means put yourself in the other shoe. Imagine you are the banker. You loan out money on little pieces of plastic. You make interest and fees. You like making money. You want to increase business. So you deflect the negatives of your product and instead spout the positives.
Then you offer a free toaster. A carrrot. A reward. Cash back, flier miles, whatever…you don’t really care. You know that you are giving a 1% reward to people who unknowingly spend 10% more trying to claim it. And the people go crazy chasing those rewards.
You esposue the feature of grace periods and no interest for 30 days while actually knowing that over half of your customers carry a balance and that grace period doesn’t apply.
There is a place for credit cards, just as there is a place for most all financial products. But that place isn’t in my wallet.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
I’m with Amy. We all know the risks of credit, but the fact is that if you use credit cards in a disciplined and responsible manner, you can save a buck. The only argument that might work against this is if people actually save money paying with cash, but I’ve rarely seen this in action.
And if you do somehow get in a position where you need to borrow money (I guess this is the “trap”), then credit cards become a different kind of tool, but they are still helpful.
And I think the “it’s only a 1% discount” or “$5 whole dollars” arguments are ridiculous. Did you forget what website you’re posting on? We’re not trying to make huge gains quickly, but instead trying to incrementally become wealthy. 1% is a nice little increment.
@Troy:
You seem to believe that no one can use a credit card responsibly. While many people might spend more using a card, I think that the people here are different. I never spend more than I have in my bank account, so, I could very easily pull out my debit card and use it. Instead, I pull out my CC and save 1%.
What’s the difference between using a CC and debit card when you are going to pay the CC balance out of your bank account anyway?
The 1% transaction fee is lost on me as well. Rarely do vendors charge a CC transaction fee, and if they do, they have to tell you about it. There may be transaction fees for vendors who accept CCs, but those are passed on to customers who use any method of payment, in the form of higher prices.
January 29th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Question for those who say just don’t get a credit card since you don’t need them: I’ve always wondered this, how do you rent a car, or book a plane, among other things, without a credit card?
January 29th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
I think Mike said it. The question is not Credit card or not? but WHICH credit card?? More than half the comments ignore the question completely. There are plenty of places to debate the merits of cash vs credit but this is not actually one of them.
Not to mention, there is no right answer anyway. It’s entirely a case of do what works for you. No matter how rational or intelligent your position is, it’s not going to work for everybody. Deal with it.
January 29th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
@Troy: “Then Tyler correctly points out that the reward is actually an average 1% discount on purchases(essentially). Never mind the purchase price is inflated by more than that 1% to offset the transaction cost.”
Well, yeah, never mind that because the fee is there whether you use a cc or not. Maybe you can get a discount for using cash to buy milk at the local mom and pop grocery, but that’s about it. I’m pretty sure you are not going to pay less for a flight if you mail a check to Expedia (though to be fair I haven’t actually tested that).
“So is the 1% worth it? I suppose that is debatable. I don’t think so. Some do. Fine.”
What’s “it”, though? What is this giant boogie man we are trying to avoid? Some have claimed some sort of “hassle” that goes into using a cc; I spent 15 minutes getting one 5 years ago, and then 20 seconds a month paying the bill. So far it hasn’t exhausted me.
And it’s 1.5%, but hey, who’s counting?
“Is it likely that by using a CC with a large open line that consumers on average will spend at least 1% more? Because that is all they have to do. Reward 1%. Spending 1%+ more.”
Who cares about “consumers on average”? I only care about what I spend. And I have no idea if my open line is “large”, I don’t use credit to buy things. I have the money to buy pretty much whatever I want (and yet I don’t, imagine that), having (or not having) any extra credit doesn’t factor into the equation.
“And that people who use money they don’t have and don’t have to have until a month later just might spend a bit more.”
Again, who said anything about using money you don’t have?
Oh yeah, and there’s been plenty of studies that show that people who carry cash with them spend more (which DOES make “common sense” to me, personally) - so what? You can find a study for anything, your own spending is what matters.
“Because it encourages usage. Usage creates fees. It creates interest payments, and it increases profit. These are BILLION dollar companies with THOUSANDS of attorneys, marketing people, MBA’s etc and you think you are winning. By doing exactly what they want you to do. ok.”
Well that, and it also encourages me to use their cards instead of their competitors’, which costs me nothing. They make their money off the processing fees which, as mentioned, I’ll be paying anyway.
(By the way, this is the first time I’ve seen someone try to intimidate someone with the raw mental prowess of an MBA - that’s pretty cute)
“You esposue the feature of grace periods and no interest for 30 days while actually knowing that over half of your customers carry a balance and that grace period doesn’t apply.”
Again, what do I care about what some percentage of their customers do or don’t do?
“There is a place for credit cards, just as there is a place for most all financial products. But that place isn’t in my wallet.”
And no one is trying to make you carry one, but stop pretending that yours is the only legitimate opinion here.