This is a guest post from Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the advisor for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service. He contributes one new article to Get Rich Slowly every two weeks.
Over the holidays, we said good-bye to an old family member. It was definitely her time to go. She leaked, she conked out at odd times, and she stank. Of course, I’m talking about our old vehicle: a minivan with 182,000 miles on it. I didn’t let go of her easily; after all, we didn’t get rid of our previous car until it had 264,000 miles on it. I figured we could get the minivan to at least 200,000.
But while visiting relatives in Florida, we had the opportunity to buy a used minivan from my sister’s meticulous neighbor for a great price. So we took it. I have to admit, it’s been a huge upgrade. It has all kinds of luxury features that our old minivan didn’t have, such as:
- When you turn it on, it stays on until you turn it off.
- When it rains, the water stays out of the vehicle.
- There’s an electrical device in the cigarette lighter that I can use to charge my cell phone, rather than just an empty hole where an electrical device used to be.
- The speedometer is an accurate reflection of the speed I’m traveling, rather than a number to which I have to add five to 15 mph.
- The brake light comes on only when the emergency brake is actually engaged.
- It has this thing called “air conditioning.”
- It doesn’t stink. (The smell in the old car came from water coming in and getting the carpets all moldy.)
- It has a “keyless remote,” which is a device on the key ring with buttons that, when pushed, cause the side doors to slide open.
(Regarding that last feature, here’s a trick you can play on the uninitiated: I put the keyless remote in my pocket, and told my mom and my aunt that the doors were voice activated, but you had to use the secret word. In this van’s case, I told them, the secret word was “monkey _____.” Since this is a family website, I can’t print the actual word, but use your imagination and you’ll be close. So I got my 70-something mom and aunt to yell, “Monkey ____!” at the van, pressed the button in my pocket, and — voila! — the doors opened. They just couldn’t get over it. “I have to get me one of those!” my aunt exclaimed. I let them yell, “Monkey ___!” at the van for another 15 minutes, closing and opening the doors, until I told them the truth. If I had videotaped it, we’d all be YouTube heroes by now.)
Drive a lemon, save some cabbage
I take my share of barbs from family and friends for driving clunkers. But for me, there are two driving (no pun intended) factors: 1) money, and 2) safety. Let’s look at the first one.
At what point is repairing an old vehicle just throwing good money after bad? Here’s one way to look at it: According to Comerica Bank, creator of the Auto Affordability Index, the average cost of a light vehicle last year was $25,500. If you had to finance that total amount over four years at the going rate of 6.56% (according to Bankrate), it would cost you $605.44 a month. If you spend less than that on repairs of the old vehicle, then keeping it saves money…at least for the next four years. At that point, the newer car would be paid off, and the old car would be really old.
But in the meantime, if it cost you only $200 a month to maintain the old vehicle, you saved $405.44 a month, or $19,461.12 over four years. Not too shabby.
While that’s helpful as a way to begin to think about the question, it doesn’t really help with determining a bottom-line number for an actual person because it’s based on an average number, 100% financing, and the purchase of a new car. To help someone like you — who is non-average, who likely wouldn’t finance the entire purchase, and who might be buying a “pre-owned” car (which, to me, is an inappropriate term, since “pre-owned” should mean “before it was owned,” that is, new) — you’ll have to whip out a spreadsheet and factor in all the costs. That includes assuming higher maintenance costs for the older car, but also higher insurance, higher property tax (if you, like me, live in a state that charges such things), and transaction costs after replacing your jalopy. It’s not an exact science, since it involves forecasting future maintenance costs — an impossible task. But it will give you some numbers to think about. In most cases, I bet the analysis will show that keeping the old car is the way to go, financially.
But then there’s safety
Did I do just such an analysis when I decided to replace our old minivan? Not exactly. We had reached a point where we were spending more than $2,000 a year on maintenance, and I had a rough idea of how much it would cost to fix the major problems with our van. Then this opportunity came up, to buy a van from one of those people who perform regular maintenance and have the records to prove it, at a price $2,000 to $5,000 below what it would have cost me to get the same vehicle from Craigslist or Carmax.
But what really got me was that the old van just didn’t feel safe anymore. Something was always going wrong, and I didn’t want something major to happen while my wife was on the highway with our kids. And I must admit, it’s nice to have a car that stays dry, has A/C, and doesn’t stink…yet. If I ran the numbers, I suspect my spreadsheet would have said, “Keep the old car.” But as readers of this website know, financial decisions don’t always come down to dollar and cents.
So I feel comfortable with the decision we made. As for our old van, my sister and brother-in-law got the major problems fixed and arranged to have it donated to a church they work with, so we’ll get a tax deduction out of the deal (another factor that would have gone into the spreadsheet) and the van will hopefully last long enough to do some good. My relatives in Florida approved of the trade-off, especially those who make jokes about the heaps we’ve driven, and believe that any car should be replaced once it reaches 100,000 miles.
Yet the math clearly shows that driving a car well beyond that point is the right thing to do for your net worth. According to Comerica Bank, the purchase of a new car costs 21.9 weeks of a median household’s income. That’s working 42% of the year just for a car. To me, acquiring a new vehicle before it’s necessary is a bunch of financial monkey _____.
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It took 45 posts to come up with one of the factors I considered important. The TIME it takes to go get the car fixed. It usually involves finding two drivers and two cars to go drop one off get picked up, get dropped off again when the repair is done. Not fun or easy.
I also recommend the trusted mechanic, you can avoid unecessary repairs and be warned of future repairs coming up.
I usually buy a car new and drive it to the ground. I feel it is better to know how the car was taken care of in the first few years of its life. It can make a difference in how long it will last.
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A few thoughts about safety. My son-in-law’s father was driving his Mini Cooper & was struck by an SUV at a light. My in-law walked away & the Mini-Cooper had less damage than the SUV. Those Mini-Coopers are built by BMW and are very heavy for their size. Also, to the guy who’s wondering about fixing the brakes….if you need new brakes, go to a school & get them done. Or if you’ve got no cash but any wiggle room on a credit card this is one purchase I’d go into debt for. If you are absolutely broke, either give up the car or borrow the money from friends or family. AND THEN PAY IT BACK!
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@Marian
I really depends on the speed of the crash and the mass of the vehicles (Force=mass*acceleration). I worry not so much about damage to the car but damage to the person in a high speed crash. You can argue that a small %age of crashes are high speed crashes. That is a valid argument depending on how comfortable you are with personal risk. But the smaller cars make me uncomfortable.
Manufacturers give up weight to make their cars more economical, but the trade-off is in structural integrity (thinner metals, different materials, etc) and that F=ma equation.
But you’re right, if you look at the numbers the Cooper is actually quite heavy for its size. From what I understand they are very well made.
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I’m driving a 2005 focus with ~100,000 miles on it. I bought it in Jan of 2006 with 23K miles on it. Only one minor repair so far: a $50 shift solonoid. I do the regular maintenance, but other than that I pretty much neglect the poor thing. After financing/down payment was all said and done, my monthly payment is about $215/month. At the end of this year it will be paid off.
Until recently I had a very long commute to/from work and then to school at night. Hence the 30mpg Focus. I just did the math and had I gone with a car in the 17MPG range, it would have cost me about $100/month extra in gas. I have kind of been hit with the new car (well new truck) bug recently since I’m a lot closer to my new job, but this post and the comments is making me reconsider.
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@Shara– for crashes that aren’t head on, there’s other factors at play than just weight and density of materials. When our Honda Civic got clipped by an F150, the bumper popped right off and I didn’t feel a thing, not even a tremor. My mechanical engineer sister was marveling at the design when she came and rescued me (she brought some ties for the flaps and stuck the bumper in my backseat so I could drive back home)… something about it dissipating the energy by popping off.
I would imagine there’s design things they can do in head-on crashes as well depending on how and where they brace things. (But I haven’t done any physics since high school.) Cars that are the same mass might be able to handle head on crashes differently than rear end crashes depending on where they put that mass and how they design bracing. (I’m vaguely recalling high school experiments designing bridges out of popsicle sticks.)
Maybe a real engineer could chime in on that. I do think newer smaller cars are better at these engineering design aspects even if older cars are heavier (since they’re made out of metal). I don’t know how different the engineering is in bigger card and smaller cars these days, if they have different requirements or what.
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Regarding the “down time” for older vehicles, we’ve solved this by having three cars for two people. No, hear me out.
* We got the third car for a song from my parents, who were the original owners.
* The extra insurance is $25 a year.
* We’ve learned how to do a lot of repairs for which the labor cost was the highest factor–the part wasn’t that expensive. We’ve taken off the dashboard and fixed vents, replaced turn signals, and done belts and hoses several times over the years.
* Because we had another car to fall back on, there was no hurry to get things done whatever the cost. We researched, shopped online, and checked junkyards for parts.
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@Marie I’ll second the extra car advice. We have an old 1986 F250 for work stuff around our property. It’s only worth about $1500 at this point and only adds ~$50/yr to our insurance.
Probably doesn’t work for everyone, especially considering many people are limited on parking. However old cars (yes, even American) are pretty reliable if you remember to drive them once every other month or so!
You’re also helping the environment by owning two cars! A small car for commuting + a rarely used older full size pickup is lower impact than driving one larger SUV around everywhere…
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Our rule of thumb is to buy new, and then once the car gets to about 130K miles, it’s assumed to be operating under a vehicular DNR order- if it’s looking like the car will need more than $2500 worth of repairs in the near future, or we’re inching toward that amount in a short time frame, then it’s time to get rid of it and buy a new car.
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@Shara
Actually mass isn’t everything, inspite of what your physics knowledge tells you. A well designed car will actually help a lot. Take a look at this youtube video from Fifth Gear for reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I) that was a big eye-opener for me.
Having said that I’m driving a 1984 Mazda with only 52 000 miles on it, that hopefully will keep me until I’ve saved enough for a new car. That car is not safe by modern standards and that means I drive defensively. For most drivers that reduces your chances of collisions as much as modern safety features. It’s also a very “direct” car, with no anti-lock brakes or power steering I know when it’s slippery as I can feel it and drive accordingly f. inst.
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@Nicole
Absolutely, there are a lot of things that go into safety. I was speaking specifically of crumple zones (btw, i said change in acceleration which should have been change in velocity which IS acceleration). You are right that in a head on collision a small car of today is still going to out perform a boat from 30 years ago because the boat isn’t going to have the crumple zones. In a rigid structure there will be close to as much force because there is no time/distance for the change in velocity. Not to mention the crumple of the hood rather than having it pushed back to cut you in half.
My point was that by getting rid of the hood and trunk areas a lot of the super compact vehicles have no way to compensate for the abrupt change of velocity of a front impact collision, hence very high acceleration which means very high force, which may mean death. If you can extend that change in velocity over 2 feet instead of two inches you may have just saved your life.
But of course not all, in fact not a majority, of accidents are front impact (though if memory serves me they are the most deadly). And just like not wearing your seat belt, there will be occasions where being in the lighter vehicle will be a net plus. But I would not choose one for myself.
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If you’re tired of constantly repairing your old car, please consider donating your car to charity. Cars4Charities has hundreds of respected charities for you to donate car to. You’ll get a tax deduction when you donate a car and help a charity too.
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@Kevin (#98) – just to take exception to your problems with citing safety as an excuse to buy a new car (& seeing as I had done so in the post previous to yours)-
When your trustworthy mechanic calls back and says your tires are about to blow out because of wear, your brakes are almost metal on metal, your hub bearing on one wheel is stripped bare and the alignment you needed is really the result of problems with your axles – it actually is an issue of safety to drive. And these were just the issues that required an immediate fix (not counting the hole in the exhaust and replacing two belts).
Sometimes, repairs really can be needed that make trading in an older vehicle a requirement.
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I calculate what the car costs me per year to drive and then I calculate the same numbers for a hypothetical new car. If the new one is comparable and I like it then I buy it.
To get the cost/year I add up depreciation, insurance, maintenance, gas and opportunity costs for the upcoming year. I don’t count car payment costs since I pay cash and I don’t take account of costs associated with trading in my old car and buying from a dealer because I buy and sell with private parties.
Depreciation is probably around 15-20% of the current value – you can get a better estimate from edmunds.com. I get the rest from my records.
My car ends up costing me ~3k/year, which I’d guess is cheap.
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I am on a new adventure of keeping my car for as long as I can. I am an itinerant teacher, and I drive a lot. If my car doesn’t work, I have to cancel students and it becomes a big hassle. I am also a single woman who doesn’t have backup if my car breaks down. So I have always felt like I needed a reliable car, and I have always gotten new cars between 90 and 100,000 miles. I almost replaced my 2003 Mazda MPV a year ago, at 100,000 miles. I had spent about $3000 on repairs and maintainence, and that worried me. But I didn’t buy a new car and I am so glad. At first, I decided to wait until the snow melted and the salt washed away. When it did, I didn’t care about getting a new car anymore. My car still feels solid, safe, and reliable, except for some developing rust. In the last year, the only extra maintanence I have done is new brakes. In the meantime, I have been saving my car payments and mileage, and I now have enough to buy a new small car. I have freedom to bail at any time, and I established limits on how much I will do to maintain my car, e.g., no new engines or transmissions. I am now at 121,000 miles and every additional mile is a gift. I have noticed that my engine is using more oil (a quart every 3000 miles) so I have to watch that. But I have a wonderful mechanic, and that helps. My engine light went on last summer, and he cleaned the oxygen sensor, and didn’t charge me. I avoided a $200 repair bill. He also inspected the engine for oil leaks and made sure the transmission was fine and didn’t charge me anything.
I appreciate hearing from all of you who have gone before me in keeping cars as long as possible.
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What about car sharing? It’s just starting to pick up in major cities.
My husband & I both come from “keep ‘em until they’re really done” families. In our families, 100K miles is just getting started, and parting with a car before 200K is just wasteful. Of course, with that attitude preventative maintenance is a must.
When our Mazda 626 needed $700+ in immediate repairs with more on the way because we weren’t as diligent with the regular maintenance as we should have been, we parted with it around 150K (oh, the shame!).
We’re now living as a one car family. We’re carpooling and plan to use a car sharing cooperative for a second car as needed. It’s a great way to move through the useful life of a car more efficiently than the sparse use a single family gets from their cars. Materials and energy required to to produce a new car as well as landfill to junk or energy to recycle the old one are saved just like when you keep your own for 20 years, but you also get to stay on top of the latest in safety and environmental advances because other people are helping to move through the miles on any individual vehicle quicker! In short, it seems like a very efficient use of resources.
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I have a different situation. I got married in 2007. I had a beater(85 bought in 2002 for 600 no ac doors didn’t lock window was stuck half down) that I was “driving the wheels off” and he had a 2004 mustang that he bought in 2006 for the price of a new mustang (long story). Soon into our marriage my beater blew up. Then we were both using the ‘stang and paying 160/wk in gas plus ins 100/mth plus 460/mth payment.1200 a month going to that stupid car. So my husband traded that car for a 2007 Focus (paid 24000 cuz of the debt on the stanky ‘stang. Dealerships really see him coming, don’t they?) Since then we’ve went from a family of 2 to a family of 5 (triplets) soon to be a family of 6. Now I’ve got involved in the car buying process. He wants to trade our 07 Focus that we still owe 14,000 on for a bigger car. I want to buy a used car. The one I have in mind currently is a 04 chevy astro with 300000 miles. They want 1800 for it. The third option is to buy a car possibly with less miles but we only have 1800. Given the three options which would you do?
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To be honest, while a spreadsheet like this could work, it leaves out a few factors.
1) Does the current car get good gas mileage, or would the new car save appreciable on gas (with rising gas prices, this is a bigger factor than when this was written)
2) The article does account for reliability and cost of repairs. How about cost of continued maintenance? In today’s used car market, the landscape is littered with failed brands (in the US alone, think Mercury, Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac, Plymouth, and a few others). How hard will it be to get parts going forward?
3) The cost of safety – is very hard to calculate. If I own a 1985 Toyota Corolla without airbags, and buy a 2005 Toyota Corolla with air bags – can you put a value on the price of safety?
I am all for keeping cars a long time. I do the same myself I own a 2003 Honda Accord with 115,000 and fortuntely, because I bought the extended warranty, can still afford to keep the car (two failed transmissions at 30,000 and 90,000 were covered fully by Honda). The next failure and it will be time for the graveyard – hopefully it waits until 150,000 at least before failing.
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