This article is by staff writer Adam Baker, whose own blog featured a real life negotiation example in the huge post Negotiation Tips for Beginners.
Each of us have specific items or activities for which we are more than willing to pay a premium. In fact, deciding what we are and aren’t willing to spend money on is one of the core issues in personal finance.
A willingness to pay extra for everything would quickly bury most of us in debt. At the same time, willingness to pay for nothing will burn out even the most frugal among us. When allocating our spending, we will likely each have a couple of financial vices that surface.
What is a “financial vice”?
Wikipedia defines a vice as “a practice or a habit considered immoral, depraved, and/or degrading in the associated society.” This definition may be a little intense for our own purposes. However, if we equate the “associated society” with the personal finance community, an interesting concept emerges.
My definition of financial vice is, therefore, “any regular expense we willing include in our budgets that may appear extreme, bizarre, or down-right ignorant to many members in the personal finance community.” Most of us have one or two financial vices that are inconsistent with the other patterns in our budget. These are the expenses that would make our friends and family cry, “What in the world are you thinking?”
Sometimes these are healthy vices — expenses that we passionately choose and that bring benefit into our lives. Other times, our friends and family may be onto something: Unhealthy financial vices have the potential to do some serious damage (often to more than just our budgets).
I won’t speak for J.D., but he’s written about several of his own financial vices both when he was fumbling in the dark and since entering the third phase of his personal finance journey. I will, however, speak for myself. [J.D.'s note: Comic books have historically been my biggest financial vice. You all know that, right?]
My primary financial vice
There are several financial vices that tend to consistently surface in my own budget. The primary one in my life right now would have to be Brazilian jiu-jitsu training.
I love training in martial arts. I’m far from a professional — just the opposite. I’m unmistakably new to the sport. Nevertheless, I love how I feel when consistently training. I love the physical workout, the mental benefits, and the instructors/students.
There’s a gym close to me that offers Brazilian jiu-jitsu (with an authentic teacher), Muay Thai, and Boxing classes six days a week. It’s close, it’s convenient, and it’s fun. The price I pay? $168 per month! Outrageous? Understandable?
To put it in perspective, Courtney and I share one car to save money. Just yesterday we had a 30-minute conversation about whether or not to spend an extra $15/month to get a DVR with our cable/internet package. The furniture we need for our temporary rental is coming from a combination of Goodwill and 4th-level family hand-me-downs.
Despite the efforts we go through to save money in some areas of our life, we are both okay with this oddball expense. Why? Because it passes the ground rules we’ve established for managing the financial vices in our own life.
4 questions to help control your financial vices
Here in the Baker family, we try to ask ourselves four questions when face to face with an expense of this nature:
- Is it impulsive? Courtney and I usually act as each other’s impulse alert. If one of us comes up with a wacky, impulsive idea, it’s the others responsibility to sound the alarm. In the martial arts example, it’s been a consistent desire of mine for 2-3 years now. I trained before our recent overseas trip and even spent a couple months training while we were in New Zealand.
- Is it consistent with our other goals? This is tough because many of these expenses will work against our financial goals by nature. However, we try to consider any ancillary benefits that are generated from the financial vice. Martial arts helps my fitness goals, provides me with a fun community of people, and helps me to stay mentally calm while under intense pressure (trust me).
- Can we control it? This rule is primarily focused at me. I have an extremely addictive personality, so I struggle consistently to maintain balance and control. In general, I try to avoid anything even remotely related to “collectible” or “massively multiplayer online” (long story). We both try to avoid expenses that are destructively addictive by nature, such as gambling, alcohol, and tobacco. (Note: I’m a proud coffee drinker!)
- Are we both on-board? For us, the last condition is that both parties are fully supportive of the expense. Even though the training expenses is for only me, I have Courtney’s full support. Without this type of support from a spouse or significant other, vices of this nature can stir up a ton of resentment.
If an expense seems to be of an excessive amount, we run it through these four questions. Most of the time, it fails to pass one of the questions. In rare cases, we find ourselves with a true financial vice that emerges.
Limiting your financial vices
Allowing yourself a financial vice can be a huge blessing (even directly to your finances). However, if you aren’t careful, over time your definition of vice may expand to be synonymous with anything I want. To help control this, Courtney and I try to limit ourselves to only one major vice at any time.
Courtney supports my martial arts training and I do everything I can to support her journey to improve her photography skills (her primary financial vice). If we choose to pursue something else, it means either eliminated or drastically reducing our current vice. Of course, sticking to only one financial vice each is easy for us…we can’t afford any more!
Joking aside, I’m interested in hearing your own insight into this issue. Have you found your own way of keeping your vices in check? Share your financial vices in the comments below!
J.D.’s note: I’d argue that what Baker has described isn’t a vice; it’s too controlled. I’d say it’s more of an indulgence. Conscious spending like this is great because it can lead to improved happiness. A true vice is something that you can’t control, and isn’t really conscious. Right? Tune in tomorrow when my wife reveals one of our household’s financial indulgences! Photo by dlcampos.
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@chacha1, I think you’re onto something. The problem I have with so many PF blogs is that they seem to frown on any spending beyond the beans-and-rice level. It’s almost as if they’ve forgotten that money is, in the end, meant to be spent. Some people have more money to spend than others (and rather than admiring people who do, they tend to villify them for having that money, which I don’t understand at all). And more than a few PF bloggers and commenters judge others for the things they spend money on because they don’t share the same interests. I guess that’s why I put down running as my “vice” based on the OP’s definition: some people don’t understand why I spend money travelling to different races when I could simply run in my own neighborhood.
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Definitely meals out is the biggest one. Its always with friends or my SO and usually nice, and enjoyable, but the money spent eating out at restaurants is insanely high. Probably more than the enjoyment factor!
I do eat a few meals a week at fast food for lunch, but am always smart with my choices (you can now a days find healthy food low in sodium, sugar and calories while high in fiber, protein, good fats and carbs anywhere if you look!).
My “vices” that I consider worth spending money on? Books, gym membership, vacations, nice clothes, DVDs of TVshows I love, home internet. All these things give me pleasure equal to the money spent on them or greater, with the exception of a few vacations that were probably less fun than envisioned.
I also share JD’s sentiment that a hobby you enjoy and spend money on is not a vice at all in any sense of the word. Its the reason we are alive and have jobs. The purpose of money is not to save it so we can swim in it like Scrooge McDuck.
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My financial “vice” / indulgence? Housecleaner twice a month, $220/mo. Oh, how I love my clean house but I really hate to clean it! My excuse is that I’m a single mother of 2 kids with an intense job that leaves me with no time.
My other vice is buying expensive Christmas presents for people—I know I spend too much, but I just love Christmas!
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I agree with JD’s perspective of vice vs indulgence.
Adam writes as much regarding the definition of vice:
‘a habit considered immoral, depraved, and/or degrading.’ Doesn’t sound to me that degradation is an issue in the Baker household. He and his wife seem to have clear channels of communication.
‘Financial vice’ perfectly sums up my entire financial past up until about three years ago. Blind, reckless, uncontrollable, unfathomable at the time, and ruinous. There was nothing logical or controlled about it. I certainly didn’t discuss what was happening with my spouse. It was hideously secretive and, yes, degrading – an addiction to spending every cent we had that had to be broken before we were all thrown out on the streets.
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I used to justify the Starbucks latte every morning, it cost me about $20/week but I never went out to lunch, so I figured it was a trade off. I’m over my Starbucks habit but now I pay up to $8/week for parking during my art class – even though there is a free garage and I’ve paid my $10 for the parking pass. Half the time the garage is full, and people race up and down the ramps and it is scary, and the garage exits onto a one-way street that takes me in the wrong direction so I’d have to go around the block to go in the direction I need to go (I share a car with my fiancee and have to pick him up from work after my class, so I want to get on the road as quickly as possible to beat the rush hour traffic headed north). None of these excuses are hugely inconvenient… but I prefer the meter. My finances are pretty much in order and getting better all the time, so even if it’s something I could avoid spending on, it lowers my stress level to not have to deal with the garage, so I’m okay with it.
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I’d argue that what you present is not vice OR indulgence. It’s passion. Your activity makes you happier and healthier, challenging you and keeping you on the cutting edge of learning and growing.
If I had to point to a “vice” or impulsive indulgence in my own life, it would be buying art, books, and CDs. Once every year or two, we tend to fall in love at first sight with a beautiful painting or photograph, take out the checkbook, and buy something in the $200-$1000 range. With books and CDs, I tend to be a drooling tightwad for four or five months, then splurge with $100 or so of good reading and listing a couple times a year.
However, last fall I took the biggest financial jump in my adult life: I bought a horse. I’ve wanted a horse since I had one as a teenager. (I gave her away after my parents stopped paying the bills and I couldn’t work enough hours at McDonald’s to pay for her AND actually ride her….plus, I could never have afforded to bring her to college with me.) I’ve ridden other people’s horses, worked in barns, taken lessons and caught rides where I could for the last 18 years, and nothing compares to working towards your athletic goals with your own equine partner. I saved up about $5,000 to buy my horse and get him home; I spend about $500 a month to keep him shod, fed, and boarded (board is $300/month, which is less than it would cost me to build a barn and buy hay and bedding at home); I spend another $140/month for lessons; and as I get back into competing, I’m probably going to want to budget $1000-$2000 a year for clinics, competitions, and travel from my very remote neck of the woods to where the action is.
Is it worth it? 100%. Although my horse costs more than my mortage and I make about $30,000 a year, I can afford to pursue my passion.
It’s a different matter when you haven’t met your basic financial needs — food, health insurance, housing, caring for yourself and your children — but if you can afford to pursue your passion and you save or budget accordingly for it, kudos to you.
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$168/ mo isn’t so bad. I needn’t tell you what I spend on tennis a month (actually I’m not sure myself, but its well upwards of $168). But you are getting more than a workout. You are getting a hobby and social interaction. Also if the gym is close enough to walk then you aren’t spending car/gas money getting there.
The benefits you get from an athletic hobby are hard to put a price on. I don’t enjoy working out so much, but when I’m playing tennis with my friends and meeting new friends I have a much better time and will continue to play more. I also like the competition and the mental workout that is the game of tennis. I’m much more likely to stick with this healthy lifestyle than I would a $30/mo gym membership – likely you are, too.
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My vices/indulgences: Live theater and music concerts, voice lessons, good haircuts, Tivo and Netflix, 1/2 marathons, belly dance classes, hockey games, ice skating at a local indoor facility, traveling, camping, and a gym membership.
Yes, we know where I’ll be cutting back if my unemployment goes on too long.
Don’t worry, DH and the kids have their lists, too.
We “pay” for our indulgences by keeping our other spending well under control. And, of course, we’re trying to demonstrate and explain to the kids how we trade spending in less important areas for spending in areas that really matter to us.
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Many years ago I read that it can be healthy to maintain a “necessary luxury.” Examples of a necessary luxury were changing razor blades frequently, or purchasing nice clothes (choosing quality over quantity). I’ve always remembered it because it gave me permission to allow for an indulgence without feeling guilty that it was derailing everything else that I was striving to balance. There’s nothing wrong with fitting a necessary luxury into the budget – it’s hardly a vice!
So mine is wine and the occasional fine dining adventure.
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$170/mo for BJJ & boxing? where do you live? holy smokes thats a ripoff.
i live in a city of 50k people and i have 2 really awesome choices for BJJ clubs, one is $90/semester for non-students and the other is $35/mo or $45/mo with muay thai/boxing.
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“Vices” are what make life worth living. It’s the people who spend a premium on EVERYTHING that get into trouble. I agree with your post, but I think it’s pretty obvious that people should spend more on what they really want to have, and cut costs on things that don’t matter so much. I guess in reality it can’t be that obvious, though, since so many people are in debt.
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I would have to agree with J.D. We should all be so lucky to have such mindful vices. But I do see where something that starts out as a mere indulgence could creep into vice territory. It is important to be alert to the temptation to make increasingly impulsive purchases based on your otherwise reasonable indulgence. In Baker’s jiu-jitsu example, that could include buying spiffy new workout clothes, training gear, demonstration videos, special instruction sessions, tickets or pay-per-view fees to watch professional matches, or travel to related special events.
Of course, any one of the above mentioned extras could likely be incorporated into your overall budget and probably wouldn’t ruin your finances. But one reasonable justification can all-to-easily lead to other, not-so-justified ones. However, Baker seems to make good use of one of the most important tools for maintaining a balanced budget: communication. I really like the four questions his family uses to monitor their indugences.
I would be interested in having J.D. explain what he meant by, “allowing yourself a financial vice can be a huge blessing (even directly to your finances).” Can you provide an example? I suppose if the vice is for educating yourself about personal finance issues…?
and @Tim #11: have you considered infusing water with various fruits, vegetables, or herbs? it could be just enough of a boost from plain water to help you kick the soda habit. you can find all kinds of recipes online.
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We spend FAR too much money on going out to eat. I really wish there was a Canadian version of Restaurant.com! (Um, if anyone knows of one, I’ll see it if you write it here
).
I guess that’s our main vice. Well, mine. My husband’s would be tools.
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“whether or not to spend an extra $15/month to get a DVR with our cable/internet package”
ReplayTV w/ lifetime subscription off ebay (as little as $80 for an older model w/ 30 hours)
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@Tracy (#62) I’m not JD, but I can provide some direct examples of how I have benefitted directly from my “vice”.
Because I travel all over to see live music, I’ve gotten to know many musicians, and have been hired to provide artwork for them. In the same vein, I’ve also met many other people who also travel to many of the same shows, and they also have hired me as well. While the work is freelance, and not dependable or steady, it’s been real money going into my bank account that I would not have gotten otherwise. In addition, because of this work, my resume has been strengthened for when I apply for other jobs.
Meeting other people with similar interests is one of the best ways to network, especially because they come from different backgrounds and often can introduce you to all sorts of opportunities that you would otherwise not hear about.
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Our biggest vice is good food. I’m talking about going to the supermarket and picking up quality items and cooking it. Soups, stews, casseroles, etc. is what I make. I also make pies and cookies on occassion. We don’t eat the stuff that we used to as kids ( hot dogs, pork roll, fried food, take-out) and realistically, this good food does cost more!! Is it healthier for us? Probably. The downside is that it runs us 17-20% of our take-home pay. I buy it on sale and I even juice old fruits or bake with the fruits that are going bad. But it definitely is a huge expense here with 3 guys in the house!!
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Great post!
I love that the content is trending back towards an emphasis on concious spending as oppposed to just saving money. Since I started reading this blog my husband and I have been really making that a priority in our lives.
It’s funny – when you only spend money on what you find important (instead of what others find important) it seems like you have a lot more money.
I have friends (at a similar income level)who ask us – where did you plant the money tree? – whenever we talk about our latest classic car project. They don’t realize that we probably spend about a 10th of what they do on clothes and shoes and eating out, so that we can afford that latest aquisition. We never seem like we’re deprived, because we are very conscious of what IS important to us and what isn’t.
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My husband and I both love our biweekly maid service, but I consider that a luxury expense, not a personal habit/hobby. That’s also why cable and internet are not on the following lists.
Mine:
Shirt Woot – $10 a month
Girl Scout Cookies – $50 a year
Candy – $5 or less a month
Movie Nights and Potlucks w/ friends – $40 a month
My Husband:
Magic: The Gathering cards – $50 a month
Board Games – $150-$200 a year
Video Games/Computer Games – $50 a year after initial investment in consoles that I enjoy too…I love the Wii.
We both used to play D&D, but finding a non-flaky group got too hard. Now we both board game…he just gets into the collecting part and I don’t.
We pay for these habits with the $75 of “fun” money we each get…so far, so good.
I might have to scale back on Shirt Woot to sign up for dance classes, but I’m hoping to find a walking partner again. That was free and fun…same problem as D&D though…people are flaky.
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It’s also good to review these regularly. Allowing yourself only one at a time probably encourages that.
My biggest one used to be ballroom dance classes. But after 20 years, I am now having a one-year moratorium on these classes. I still spend to go out dancing, but not for lessons. I am tired of this being my main way to spend my free time.
So now my biggest one is probably buying some clothes from LLBean without even bothering to look in thrift stores first. I despise looking for pants because apparently I am a weird shape, and this is one company that is still around and not crazy expensive that sells pants in my size.
I also agree that I don’t like the term “vice,” even in this context. Yes, this is something you want rather than something you need (although exercise and sanity are needs). So what? People are allowed to buy things they want. That’s the whole point of paying attention to your finances–quit wasting money on stuff you don’t really care about that much so that you have enough for more important things.
Excellent point on staying away from addictions, and preventing them when possible. I am lucky to have only mild ones, but even just being addicted to sudoku and sugar is worse than having no addictions at all.
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I don’t see anything wrong with spending money on things you actually want, if you can afford it. It’s spending money on things you don’t really want and/or can’t afford that gets you into trouble.
I spend on running and triathlons (4 pairs of shoes a year = $600 when you have flat feet, marathon entry fees are upwards of $130, etc). I spend on guitar lessons from time to time. My husband buys records and music online every week or so. We spend money on tickets to see bands we like. We travel often. We go out to brunch with our friends every weekend. We throw parties and cook for everyone. These are the things we like to do and spend our money on. I don’t consider any of them vices because we wouldn’t buy them if we couldn’t afford them.
If I spent money on these things and wasn’t saving, or hadn’t paid down my debt, then they would be vices for sure.
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I agree that spending on a fitness related hobby is not a vice. I race with a dragonboat team; monthly fees and one-time gear expenses are reasonable, though the travel can get expensive. However the benefits are huge, and greatly outweigh the cost. I get a full-body workout, plus cardio, with a GREAT coach and a really supportive team. I get 20+ friends to hang out with both while paddling and just socially. I get to travel with a group to places I might not go on my own, and experience things I might not have done otherwise. I enjoy it immensely and would be poorer in spirit if I didn’t have this in my life.
I would however consider buying lunch to be a vice. I often have leftovers in the fridge to bring for lunch, and I also keep a stash of frozen dinners at work. However at least once a week I respond to the lure of the glorious variety of international food carts lurking mere blocks from my office. The food is invariably wonderful, often unhealthy, and though not terribly expensive, it adds up fast. It’s very rare that I have no food and HAVE to eat out; a bit less rare that I go out with someone for social purposes; and yet I still keep going to the carts. Bad for cash and calories.
Any suggestions on how to stop??
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“the last condition is that both parties are fully supportive of the expense”
Or, you could agree to designate a certain amount of the monthly budget as discretionary spending, which you each get and can spend without having to answer to your partner. We find it works best if we move this money to separate accounts so we can keep track of what we have without the other needing to know.
My biggest vice is probably buying lunch at work (and soft drink and chocolate). His – I don’t know what his is. I don’t get to see his account
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Unfortunately, my vice truly is a vice. Gambling! I know it doesn’t make sense, but I swear it is in my genes. I get such a thrill and rush out of playing some slots now and then.
Thankfully, this is countered by (1) being a cheapskate and (2) getting bored by gambling within 20-30 minutes. Having those triggers keeps me squandering the little nest egg I’ve built.
This past weekend, I wandered into a casino while celebrating my birthday, spent only $40 cash (plus about $30 of the casino’s money) and had a quick blast of fun.
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I have to agree with J.D. and some comments above, the word “vice” isn’t quite right. I think indulgence is the more correct term, and I think having one or two is okay as long as you remain within your budget. My indulgence is Starbucks, I’m a daily visitor. However, I’m not breaking the bank when I go. I’ve whittled my drink down to under $2.60. For about $75 a month I can indulge myself without too much guilt.
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my vices: books, coffees, movies, anything with my 11 nieces and nephews, eating out
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Movies (300 DVDs/Blu-Rays and counting) and art. I decided to put off getting a new car this year because my latest acquisition cost nearly as much as a brand new vehicle.
My spending in these two areas balance out my frugality in all other areas of my life.
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Like Erika (#56), a horse is my vice too
Not a “sensible” way to spend my (limited) extra money in any way, but the right opportunity presented itself and I bought her a year ago. I spend about $250-300 on her a month, but I’m lucky that those costs are lower than average, since I barter free stall cleaning and feeding for free lessons and reduced board.
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My indulgence is traveling. My girlfriend lives in Spain, so we get to see each other every 4 months or so. When we do see each other, I tend to splurge so we can do some cool things. In June, she came to visit me in Australia (I was studying there at the time) and we flew up to Cairns, snorkeled the Great Barrier Reef, then rented a campervan and drove down the east coast of Australia. Over Thanksgiving, I went to see her in Barcelona and we ate out every night at different restaurants and traveled to Paris and Munich.
Great post, Baker! I’m glad that you’re settled in at your new temporary home and are taking the opportunity to experience it 100%!
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My biggest vice used to be books. I was going to Barnes & Noble or Borders at lease twice a week. It was rare that I left without spending $50+. That changed when I discovered the world of PF blogs. Now I spend time reading GRS or MVD.
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Great article. I have several vices. My big one was smoking. I worked on keeping track of how much I spent on cigarettes then tried to reduce it. After cutting down I was still spending $80 a month! A week ago I decided to stop completely.
A great and health and financial victory!
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I have to say, I believe that everyone needs a vice of some sort! Why spend all your time trying to earn money, not to enjoy it? The wife and I bought a plane and love it… is it expensive, yes it is… but when you can fly half way across the country in 7 hours, it’s so worth it… Weekend trip to the beach, a diner out in the mountains.. No problem….
Money is only worth the experience it buys!!!!
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Wow, great article. Just made me realize a couple of huge things:
*my financial vice, eating out too much, does nothing to propel me forward in life and is born of laziness
*my financial vice should have something to do with my life’s ambition–to become a published writer. What can I spend my personal money on to help me on this path (and divert me from squandering my money and health on crap food?)
Lots to think about. Thanks!
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To me, its all about perspectivre and how badly you want to get out of debt.
Personally, I would consider substituting a less expensive “vice” till my money was in order. Then, I would reward myself with the martial arts training.
To me, the enjoyment would be more fulfilling that way
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I was sure that someone would already say this, but my “vice” is quality food. I try to buy as much food from the farmer as I can. This means I pay much more for my meat then most people. But this gives me piece of mind to know that the animals I am eatting do not live in cages or pins.
One more thing, my vice is ballet classes. But the health and happiness completely outway the price.
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Diet cola (not coke…but a store brand) and I’m a fabricaholic. I love fabric. I love to touch it, feel it, buy it. (I do use it, but I have way more than I need or any “normal” person has.)
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I agree with one of the prior comments… if it is something that helps you grow mentally and spiritually then it is not a financial vice but more a passion; something that should be part of living and enjoying life.
At the end of the day it boils down to mindset; making money, saving money, investing money, and being good stewards of money are all important but so is truly living and enjoying life – being in a position to do the things that you want to do… you only get one shot at it!
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We pay over $200 a month on martial arts and gym membership. It’s used all the time so in reality, they are really, really cheap. The gym costs us about $1.50 each session and the Muay Thai is about $5 each session.
Definitely not a vice. Physical training for a whole family for just a bit more than the mobile phones….bargain.
Look, if you save a ton of money, what the heck are you going to do with it at the end of the day, give it to your alma matter? Save it all up so that at 70 you can finally travel the world.
Keep up the training and you’ll be a lot happier you invested that money when you still are doing the Brazillian JJ when you are 70 and feeling great.
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My vice is eating our everyday for lunch and dinner…I am perfectly capable of cooking. I buy whatever I need but when I get home I just cant bring the pots and pans out… I end of up calling a friend and going out to eat!!! I have tried for a while now to break it but I just (I guess I really dont have a valid excuse)……..Plus I have to spend $$ on gym membership and personal training classes (2 sessions a week) so I can maintain my weight.
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My financial indulgences (as J.D. put it) used to be: 1) buying expensive gifts for family and friends, and 2) buying books!
Now I try to borrow books from the library, and I spend less money on gifts.
My new financial indulgence? Seeds, plants, tools, etc for my vegetable garden!
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I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with spending money on things that enrich your life if you can afford it. If training in muay thai makes you happy, I wouldn’t hesitate in taking the class. In fact I plan on taking some classes starting this summer.
For me, when it comes to money, I think the things you buy to do something or the experiences you pay for are a lot easier to excuse. I recently bought a groove box (what you use to make hiphop beats with) for just under $400. That is pricey, but the joy I’ve gotten from trying to learn how to use it, and making music has fulfilled me in a way that buying a bunch of new videogames or books would have (nothing against those things — I love them both).
So yeah, if it fulfills you, spend that dough. That’s how I look at things anyway.
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haha, I’ve got a great vice for you.
My vice is donations to charity. I know you will find that entertaining.
I run a small nonprofit and I am constantly siphoning off money that I should be using to pay off loans or something and donating extra money for my charity. It is impossible for me to say no when I hear a story about kids not being able to go to school, or being able to run more nutrition outreaches, or something like that. I also try to pay for all the overhead costs directly so that the organization will have low overhead costs for itself, so I’m spending $$ here and there on printing and office supplies, the organizational newsletter service, the online donation service, the website…
I literally had to confess to my husband a little while ago that the extra money I had been earning had been going towards charity and I was too afraid to tell him because I was supposed to be finishing our emergency fund and saving money to buy us new curtains, I even took money from our emergency fund and promised my husband I’d pay it back, so a very deserving young person could go to school.
It is not only my own charity, but I give every time I am asked by friends or family as well, after all, I am always hitting them up for my charity so it is only fair, plus, I am a sucker for good causes like the environment or cancer research.
My husband forgives me for this vice because he knew I was a bleeding heart when he married me, and he knows it is one of my greatest joys in life to make the world a better place. But still, I am having a hard time keeping control of my money because of this, so even though it seems like the opposite of a vice, I think it is actually closer to a vice than some of the other (static cost, fairly small monthly fees) ones listed. Just this month I’ve already spent like $700. Can anyone offer help for my addiction.
p.s. Baker thanks, your article does help with thoughts about this. And for others who have the same problem… the only thing I have found that is helpful is Kiva, because on Kiva I can keep making ‘donations’ of the money that is paid back on my microloans without actually lending more money. I lend it out in the smallest ($25) increments so that I can make lots of little loans and satisfy some of the desire to give more donations. Other ideas welcome. I cannot donate time, though, I work 80 hours or more per week and spend my ‘spare time’ on the charity already.
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quinsy,
I know that I don’t know you at all, but what you are describing is definitely a destructive pattern, not only to your financial situation, but to your relationship as well. As you mentioned, this is more than a vice, it is an addiction.
I don’t want to scare you at all, that’s not the point. I would say that your feeling the need to give to others, even at the detriment of yourself, may stem from an experience from when you were younger. In my line of work (I’m a financial counselor) I run into this often. Try to think back on your experiences from when you were younger. Were there times where it felt like you constantly had to pass on, or go without because of your family’s financial situation? If you go long enough without getting some of the things you want, or experiencing some of the things you like, this leads to deprivation. Deprivation is what happens when you don’t allow yourself, or you aren’t allowed to indulge in the occasional (non destructive) ‘vice’.
This COULD be the reason you spend on others all the time. You don’t want anyone to be deprived because you know what that feels like.
Without spending a good bit of time with you I must leave it up to you to determine.
Good Luck!
Adam thanks for this post. This was very well written.
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Interesting thoughts, Nate, but I promise, I was never deprived as a child. I had an idyllic childhood and always had everything I needed, my parents were much better off than most of my friends’ parents.
I just really like giving to charity.
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Adam, as a fellow BJJ guy, I look at the $150 monthly gym fees as a financial virtue. Because I have it set up to autopay on the first of every month, I carefully monitor my checking account to ensure that I’m reserving at least $75 from each paycheck so that there are no hiccups on the first. Furthermore, while it is expensive, it is an investment in health! I hope that the hours I’m putting in on the mats will translate to reduced chances of health problems (and related costs) in the long run. Plus, working out and learning something new is a mcuh more productive way to spend my money than other more “passive” entertainment options (like going to a movie or a bar).
Many of the things that other commentors have been posting could be seen as virtues rather than vices. As chance would have it, my company runs a blog that explores the wisdom of legendary investor John Templeton and we’re just wrapping up a series of posts on his ideas on “financial vices/virtues” (he loved thinking about things in these terms). Tomorrow (2/23), we’re actually going to be starting a contest about this very idea that is open to anyone who wants to blog about it. There will be cash prizes and the rules will be up tomorrow at the link in my name.
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I disagree with your brazilian ju jitsu being a vice as well. If it makes you happy, gets you out of the house, and keeps you in shape then you are probably more than offsetting those costs compared with those with obesity related health problems.
I spend $99/mo on yoga. Do I worry? No, b/c I also gave up cable TV, expensive rent, and storage prices for storing stuff I don’t need anymore. I also have another vice: eating out twice a week, if I were to cut down to once or twice a month, I’d probably be saving all the money I spend on yoga. Yoga keeps me in shape, keeps my mind sharp, and keeps me sane with the demands of my work schedule. The opposite end of this however is someone who has a gym membership or yoga membership and doesn’t use it….that’s just silly to spend money on if you aren’t going to use it. I recently cut the gym, b/c I like running outside better than running on a treadmill.
Why is spending money on an activity you enjoy that also keeps you in shape a vice? B/c our financial analysts tell us we must work harder for less money and give up all our luxuries that make us happy with our lives in exchange for boosting some fat cat corporations profits? Don’t pay any attention to them, make other cuts first before making cuts in your health.
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Involving yourself into martial arts I think is not a waste of spending money as long as it will improve your state of health. Because I believe we work to earn money for us to have a happy and healthy life. As long as it will not have bad effects on your body, then it is not a waste of time and money. One must learn how to prioritize the importance of things to their lives. One must learn to classify it accordingly as to needs or wants. There are things that we can live without so this are the wants. We only want this for fame and glory. While need is something we have to have in order to live a happy and healthy life.
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