This is a guest post from WC, a guy in Chicago that writes about money at The Writer’s Coin.
In May, I will celebrate my two-year anniversary with M, my favorite person in the world. I thought I knew a lot about everything before we got married, but now I’m wiser. So for all the newlyweds out there, or the ones thinking of walking the plank getting married, here are some things you should know.
There is no I. Marriage is all about the “we”. It’s not “your” money or “my” money, it’s “our” money. It isn’t your retirement, it’s our retirement. It’s not an easy concept to grasp, but you’d better adjust because when you get married you really don’t have a choice. The sooner you accept it, the easier it will be. Don’t fight it…As you’ll see, this will become a recurring theme throughout your married life.
There is no “right” way to do things. When M and I got married, I checked my bank and credit card accounts every day. M did not — she just made sure there was always money left in her account at the end of the month. When I showed her my method, she was taken aback, but she saw some use to it.
So we found a middle ground: we sit down and run through our budget midway through the month and at the end. It gives us a checkup halfway through and then at the end we check to make sure we met all our goals. It’s like a challenge and it works for us.
Maybe you use a fancy spreadsheet you run through every month that tells you exactly where your money is going. Or maybe you use Mint to track your spending. Or you might be one of those people that does it all in their head — no paper trail necessary.
Either way, it might be the way you do things, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be the way we do things. You will have to adjust and find a way of doing things that works for both of you.
Saving is saving, no matter how you do it. Being a big fan of I Will Teach You to Be Rich, I used to open multiple high yield savings account sub-accounts with specific names for whatever it was I was saving for. It’s called targeted saving, and I thought it was a great idea.
If something unexpected happens, you take money out of the emergency fund and you still get to make your budget. It’s all a psychological thing to keep you feeling like you’re on track.
I showed M the system and she gave me a look: “What’s the point? It’s all the same amount of money either way.” She was right and I started to question how useful the whole system was. In the end, it didn’t make the cut — we didn’t find it useful enough for the time it took to set up. I thought it was a great idea, but M was right: it’s still the same amount of money. End of discussion.
The important thing is that we were saving, regardless of how we did it.
Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.
But you’ll still need to set up a budget that works for the both of you.
I used to use my credit card for everything. It tracked all my spending and gave me some decent rewards. M, on the other hand, liked to have cash in hand. But I wanted to get her to budget, and my system of simply knowing how much you’d already spent (remember by daily checking of accounts?) just wasn’t going to work for her.
But she felt the pressure to find a system that worked for her so we could meet our budget every month. And she did: the envelope system. She took out the money she had allotted for the week and then stopped spending if she ran out of money.
As for me, I still use my credit card like I did before. This was one thing we were able to keep individualized, which is important when you get married (we still have individual accounts outside of our joint account). With all the push to turn I into we, it’s good to have your own things you can do how you want.
The important thing is that you have a budget in the first place.
Cooking together is a great idea. You get to spend time together, it’s good for the budget, it’s healthier, and it creates some equality in an area where traditionally it’s one person doing all the cooking.
In most relationships, one person does all the cooking. Maybe you have an arrangement where the person that doesn’t cook does the dishes to make up for it. That’s fine — but I would recommend trying to spend a fair amount of time in the kitchen with your significant other.
It’ll give you a good environment to work together towards a common goal — making a good meal. Things can get tense in the kitchen, but that’s the whole point — you’ll learn from it and when something more serious than overcooked lasagna happens, you’ll have the tools to handle it.
Plus it’s fun.
Communicate. Marriage isn’t easy, especially when you’re talking about money. But even if none of the other stuff I’ve mentioned clicks with you, then you should at least take one thing with you from this post: communication is key.
You might not track your money or save anything or cook together. But you better communicate or else your marriage is going to be a train wreck.
‘Til death. I’ve been married for just under two years, but I can still remember what it was like to deal with money on my own: You think you have all the answers and you treat everything the way a dictator would. You’re never wrong and everyone else sucks.
Marriage has introduced democracy into my decision making and I’m grateful for it. It’s made me smarter, wiser, and less of a jerk.
This article is about Basics, Relationships Tuesday, 23rd February 2010 (by J.D. Roth)


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I disagree that marriage is necessary to learn these lessons. I’ve been unmarried but in a steady relationship for about 7 years now, and I learn most of the same.
We’re both employed though, at jobs that pay comprably, so there’s a lot less “we” about the money than indicated here. I think it depends (to answer JD) on how much each of you earn, and if there is a breadwinner. If there is just one breadwinner, it is “our” money for sure, otherwise the lower/non-earner will earn the resentment of the high earner.
I really like seeing posts about money and relationships, whether those relationships are romantic or familial. So much of the way we relate to money is emotional, so when money and relationships collide, it’s fertile ground for conflict and discussion.
Keep ‘em coming!
I don’t want to be a dick, but the line “I’ve been married for just under two years” kind of undermines everything else that’s said. Maybe this stuff works and helps solidify a marriage, and maybe in another few years they’ll get divorced because of money. I’d much rather hear from a couple who have been married for 20 years and lived through various life changes like having kids, buying a house, dealing with job loss or changing careers. That would give me more confidence that the advice actually works.
Also, the first and last points are potentially dangerous in the event of divorce. There was an article just a little while ago about what happens to women who were completely dependent on their husbands after the marriage fails. Yes, you want to make decisions as a couple and think of yourselves as a team, but there has to be a balance between hoping for the best and planning for the worst. If the husband has a good corporate pension, then they should put more of their extra retirement savings in the wife’s name. “Til Death” is a nice goal but it is far from a given. If you only prepare for the best-case scenario, you haven’t really prepared at all.
JD I disagree with you and which is why I never understand couples who have separate finances. It just seems to me if you’re always separately accounting for each person’s contribution to a meal, rent, vacation etc, it really takes away from the ‘jointness’ of a couple’s present and future (for instance each individual doing their own retirement planning). And how do you account for a situation where one spouse makes significantly more than the other spouse - does their share of the expenditures increase just because they make more? That doesn’t seem “fair.”
I agree. I’m one of those people that believe in separate financies. Everyone needs a little mad money!
JD I’m w/Shannon #4 on this one. I remember when my husband and I moved in together. I had furniture, he did not - and, in the beginning of our marriage, I made money and he did not. One day he asked if I’d rather use the top set of drawers in my bureau or the bottom set. Share my drawer space??? How dare he? It was one of the toughest transitions into marriage that I encountered.
Silly as it sounds, sharing drawer space in my bureau was a metaphor for sharing finances. Once I got past the idea of “my” stuff vs. “his” stuff, everything became a lot easier, and I think it set a strong foundation for the trust we share with each other (17 years later!). I know other married folks manage things separately, and Husband and I each have our own areas where we might spend a little money for ourselves. However, I think if you can ease your brain around the idea of shared finances, shared property and shared planning, it makes life much simpler.
I think that there is some truth to there not being an “I” in marriage as far as money goes. You may have separate accounts, but if your spouse got laid off, and couldn’t pay his share of the rent, would you kick him out and have him live in a box on the streets? If your spouse got a huge bonus, and wanted to use it to take a dream vacation, would you be okay if she didn’t buy you a plane ticket when you couldn’t afford to buy your own? If one spouse is a huge saver and the other is a huge spender, when retirement happens, will one really be moving to a luxury condo in Florida while the other is eating Alpo? If you are married, even with joint accounts, what you do with your money will affect the other spouse.
There certainly is room for “I” in marriage, and I also agree that it is good to each have money to draw on in a personal account.
However, wouldn’t retirement be difficult without joint finances? I can easily see a situation where one person has saved significantly more than the other and there is resentment in retirement because one person is living on the other person’s savings.
Keeping finances separate seems to me like planning to fail. Yes it makes it easier when a couple separates, but since when has that been a goal in a marriage?
In the end though, I suppose you do whatever works for you (unless there have been studies on divorce rates among couples that keep joint/separate finances).
My wife’s an at-home mom. If there was an “I” in our marriage, she’d be SOL (strictly outta luck). As it stands now, as we approach our Seven Year Itch anniversary in May, she manages our food, entertainment and clothing budget using a Dave Ramsey style envelop system. This way, we can easily track how much we’re spending in those departments and she doesn’t need my “approval/concurrence” to spend as she sees fit. I pay the bills for utilities, mortgage, and other regular monthly expenses, because these are routine things that I can basically predict every month. At the end of each month, we have a little left over after bills, retirement, kids’ college, etc have been paid; so we decide together how we want to have fun with that money.
My wife and I truly couldn’t function well with separate finances. I doubt our marriage would have lasted this long under those conditions. And as it is now, we fight a heck of a lot less about money than most of our peers who do things differently.
I agree with #2Cely about seeing more posts about money and relationships, which I find very useful. Maybe you can feature more guest posts on this issue, I wouldn’t be turned off by that as much as I am by ‘normal’ guest posts.
I disagree with #3Aleks though. At first I thought “yeah, what does this guy know”. But being close to getting married myself, I realized that he might have a different perspective, since he went through this process more recently, than say someone who transitioned 10 or 20 years ago.
I think thoughts on this issue from the entire gradient from engaged to retired could be valuable, in their own ways.
I agree with several of the posts above. JD, you may think there is a lot of “I” because you and Kris have seperate accounts BUT two “I”’s cannot function for long in a marriage.
If Kris has expensive surgery that drains “her” account are “you” going to leave her out in the cold? I would hope not. Same goes for any of the type of unexpected debt or even the possibility of a layoff.
In our household, “I” handle all the finances, so I could take credit for the accounts being mine although it is technically “ours.” My wife just prefers less responsibility and thus does not want to deal with financial matters. I make sure I keep her in the loop and explain things to her incase tragedy were to strike. If my wife needs cash or she wants information, I do not withhold it from her if we have it.
I know you and your wife favor each other JD. It could be you two have seperate accounts because it provides the appearance of financial independence but you are not truly independent from each other. I consider the lack of independence (having a mate) a wonderful joy. Signed, a man nearing his 10th wedding anniversary.
On an additional note: I do agree with the uniqueness in talents and abilities that a spouse brings to the marriage. Hopefully, the goal of those talents are to better then marriage (we).
My husband and I became a set when we married. For financial stuff, it’s “our” finances. We each get our own “fun” money but everything else is joint. We come to mutual decisions and compromises, but it’s still “our” system.
For friends, hobbies, personal values, etc, it’s individual (we do have some of the same friends, hobbies, and personal values but you get the point). For money, it’s a joint thing or we’d go nuts trying to split everything down the middle.
If we ever get a divorce, we’ll worry about a split then. As of now, we plan for a life-long marriage…that means joint finances for us.
enh
I liked the recent article by JD on factors to consider when thinking about merging (or not merging) accounts so much better than this one. It was really thoughtful and I loved how it got into the different aspects of two people’s union that might make one system better than the other. Not only is there not a one-size-fits-all, but there are suggestions on what aspects help for a better fit. Very thought provoking. And it totally made sense, if you both have about equivalent separate incomes, different money styles, and are both ok handling finances, why not have yours, mine, and ours? If you have a SAHP situation, obviously that doesn’t make as much sense.
This article just doesn’t have any interesting thought provoking information, doesn’t seem well researched… says less than the Dave Ramsey lecture on relationships on the same theme…It seems like an article I’d be more likely to see at TSD instead of GRS. I’d rather have just had the one interesting book review article today. Zero desire to read this guy’s blog.
I’m all for more articles on relationships and money, but this one isn’t up to GRS standards, IMO.
When do we get to read a Tyler K reader article? I’m totally looking forward to that.
JD you are my hero and I 100% agree with you.
The folks who hate separate finances seem to be strangers to the concept of sharing and compromise. You can’t buy groceries without joint finances?? We don’t divide everything up like roommates! If he loses his job I can support us - though he would have to give up some things, same as in any relationship where one person has greater “wants” than the other. We have a balance that works for us and it HAPPENS to involve separate finances. Enough with the judgement already.
I will also add, in our case there is no “our” retirement. He is 16 years older than me and has a decent chance of being dead before I reach retirement age. Therefore I have to plan on supporting myself till the age of at least 95, based on family history. Not to mention, since he has no savings, I have to plan on supporting him should he have to stop working. This is (part of) why we have separate finances: he would be appalled by how much I am saving, since he thinks he will die young and quickly. Fortunately he is worth more to me than money.
Having only been married for a year, but living together and sharing expenses for three, I’m closer in circumstances to the writer. After we were married, my husband and I did create a joint checking account, as well as a joint savings account. We planned out our monthly budget for bills, and deposit money into the checking account on a monthly basis to cover those needs. We also both make monthly contributions to our joint savings account because we’re saving for a house.
Having said that, we both still have our own personal checking and savings accounts, retirement funds and I have my own 401(b).
I think the key to maintaining an “I” financially in a relationship is having a realistic budget. Our budget covers entertainment expenses such as movies, or dining out, so we are paying that together. If he wants to buy a video game, and I need to pay library fines on books I’ve checked out, then that comes from our personal accounts, to me its not fair for either of us to pay for something together than only one of us uses. This also reduces random arguments about money in my opinion, because no one is looking at the monthly statement and wondering why I bought yet another pair of shoes, or asking if he really needed that new gaming mouse.
It also means, that when we do go into larger purchases (furniture, computers, etc.,) we’re both on board with the expense, and can stick to a budget we both can agree on.
“Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.”
No kidding. Now all I have to do is find Mr. Wonderful. Suggestions?
On a more serious note (although I’m serious about the above too), when the shared cost/shared support mechanism kicks in, it can be incredibly beneficial to both parties. However, that is not something I hear a lot about (excluding this site– where J.D. has made it a point of discussion in various posts).
As a single person, I can do much for my own betterment, but in a way, that can only go so far. On the other hand, I am aware and have seen enough to know that sometimes the shared expenses of marriage or a longterm relationship are not always the stuff of dreams.
I don’t usually comment, but a few things strike me here — 1) someone with 2 years marrige experience certainly has something to offer someone who is engaged or newlywed. I agree a different perspective could be gained from someone who has been married for 20 years, but that doesn’t belittle what the poster writes. My husband came a long way financially in our first 2 years and I wish someone had told me what I know now many years earlier.
2) Just because you have combined finances doesn’t mean you can’t have mad money, it just needs to be budgeted for and equal — ie. just because you make $10k more/year doesn’t mean you get that much extra spending money and the bills are split 50/50.
I think separate finances can work for some couples, but in a lot of cases it causes more trouble than it avoids. I wouldn’t want to spend the time figuing out who paid what half of which bill and who owes who what. As far as I’m concerned my husband and I have different strengths and combining everything allows us to reap the benefits of both.
We’ve been married 20 years and have ALWAYS merged everything. We’ve been through some very rough times together, including having to pawn her deceased mother’s jewelry just to have gas money to drive home. We sold my antique Martin guitar that was a gift from my parents just to have enough money to pay our deposit on an apartment.
I’m a proponent of merging your money. It all depends on your commitment to each other. If we had done otherwise, I think we would have regretted it.
I’m with Aleks (comment #3). While this article is nice and all in theory, there’s just no experience to back it. Everyone knows the divorce rate is around 50%. Many couples do manage to make it for 2 years but end up failing a few years later. It’s so much rarer to find a couple that’s been married for 20 years or more. I’d MUCH rather hear from someone who has been successfully married for at least 20 years and see how they’ve handled issues like money in the marriage.
Hey Ron, (comment #16), why don’t YOU write an article?
I think some people deliberately misconstrue when JD writes about his and Kris’ separate finances. As Ely says, just because you have separate finances (and typically, this just means you each have your own bank accounts; it doesn’t mean you’re like Tim Burton and Helena Bonham Carter, living next door to each other in separate houses) doesn’t mean you divide everything up obsessively as if you’re roommates who don’t like each other.
Mates, whether married or not, are a team and work things out accordingly. Someone is ALWAYS contributing more financially, and someone is ALWAYS contributing more in other ways. These roles can change a lot over the course of a relationship.
The whole notion of “two become one” is sentimental nonsense. There are still two people (at least) in any relationship, and their individual wants, needs, priorities, goals etc are going to change over time just as the *partnership’s* wants (etc) will change over time. Those who want to succeed as Partners have to respect each other as Individuals.
Moreover, it is statistically unlikely that both people in a relationship, even one that lasts “til death,” will die at the exact same moment. One will be left behind to have a financial life of his/her own, and had better have the tools to manage it. That’s where communication and planning really come into play. You can’t just let things happen.
JD, I do not understand why you disagree so strongly with WC’s first point. He’s not saying you are no longer two individuals with different skills and minds, he’s saying that you are now a team and things like retirement and saving for houses etc should be shared goals.
Take your situation with your separate finances, where Kris was saving so much of her money when you were heavily in debt. What was she going to do when you got to retirement age and you didn’t have enough? Say “sorry, I’m set” and leave you to stew? What would you do now if she lost her job and couldn’t work again? That’s not a team, that’s two individuals who happen to have cohabited.
I don’t say that all couples must share their finances at all, and neither is WC. Just that there is joint responsibility and you are a team when it comes to your future. I think you’ve really missed his point.
“Falling in love is good for the budget.”
Not necessarily. When you’re single and in the mood to go catch a movie, you pay the price of one ticket. Going to the movies as a couple doubles that cost, while you might not have double the income.
You’re sharing expenses such as utilities, but you can get that same effect from a roommate.
Maybe you go out less if you’re a couple. Or maybe it’s a huge source of “peer pressure” to spend if your partner loves to shop.
I agree about the targeted savings. I read Ramit’s post about it and at first thought it was a great idea. However, as I got ready to actually do it, I thought what’s the point exactly?? I think much of the advice is really only for people who have difficulty saving. If you are a skilled saver, then it really is just one pot of money at the end of the month.
Most of the comments seem to be about savings and earnings. But what about debt? If you get married, and your partner runs up $10K of credit card debt (known to you or not), then dies, you are responsible for that debt, correct?
It seems like there are plenty of stories about hidden debts in marriages. How scary to only learn of that debt when your spouse dies unexpectedly. No matter how much you keep finances separate, in some ways (beyond your control) they are merged.
(Correct me if I’m wrong on that — maybe it’s a state-by-state law?)
JD, I definitely agree with you on this one!
When my husband and I were married, we made the decision to keep our checking account separate. I was - and still am! - absolutely taken aback at the dissaproval and outright venom we recieved from folks who had decided to merge finances!
Many folks (I assume they were well-meaning) told us that our decision not to merge all of our accounts was a reflection of our lack of commitment to each other, a lack of trust, and our selfishness, and was a sign that the relationship would never work out. All this can be deduced from one dividing line for the cash?!
I DO believe that there is room for “I” in a marriage. I just think that the line is different for different people. My husband and I both work, so it’s easy to keep different accounts. We’ve divided up bills between us, and we alternate picking up the tab at the grocery and pet food stores.
Keeping our day-to-day monies separate makes it easier to track funds (I never have to worry that he wrote a check and forgot to tell me, for example).
Of COURSE there is no question one of us would support the other if something happened, and I think it’s downright silly that some commenters would question a couple’s commitment to their mutual support based on the dividing line for a few dollars. Would my spouse and I consider onsolidating accounts if one of us could not/chose not to work for an extended period? Sure! It is a matter of what money management style is easy to use, NOT a matter of how much one is committed to the other.
Incidentally, we’ve found that it’s a fabulous way to treat each other, too. Buying gifts to each other somehow seems more special when we each spend our own money on them (we bought each other’s wedding rings out of our own accounts, for example).
I love being able to choose to gift my husband with things I buy myself. I love making purchases without any question that I’m dipping into money he may have earmarked for another purpose. And I love the expression on his face when I insist on picking up the tab at dinner! =)
I have to add I agree with JD about separate accounts. Just because you have your own accounts doesn’t mean you consider things financially separate. It’s just about day to day management. All the money is in the same overall pool, for both of us to eventually retire on. Of course we would take care of each other if the other couldn’t work.
But if you have different money management styles, sharing accounts could drive you both crazy. I don’t see anyone ever arguing about having money split for other reasons - ie. checking account, savings account, some CDs, some mutuals, some stocks, etc. Investments split between high and low risk. This is just common sense. But if one spouse prefers low risk investments and the other higher so they keep things separate isn’t this the same idea?
If one person is uncomfortable with their hard earned money going in the stock market, should they be forced into it, because their accounts are all “joint” and the money-manager spouse wants to do it that way.
Personally, my husband and I are both excellent savers but as far as management and investing I track and fiddle all the time and he just wants to buy CDs once a year. And occasionally move money from a checking to a savings account. It is OUR money. We don’t worry about exactly who’s paying for what as whatever we don’t spend we’ll both have to use later. But I couldn’t stand having to consult with him every time I want to move a bit of money around. And it would drive him crazy as well.
I do something similar to target savings, but with a different idea. Yeah, it’s all money but if the furnace goes out I am going to start cutting back on other expenses until the balance is back up. And how much am I spending on clothes anyway? I have buckets of money with different labels to keep tabs on individual costs (like clothing) as well as keep from worrying about covering every expense when everything hits me at once.
I don’t think the comments about “there is no ‘I’” is intended as not having ANY autonomy or personal money, but as another poster said, your financial lives are intertwined and you need to understand that and plan accordingly.
I had to laugh at the ‘economy of shared living’ because of how many penny-pinchers I’ve met who married spend thrifts and wind up with no money. Not to mention the heck divorce plays on the finances.
As an aside: to those who quote the ‘50%’ number with regard to divorce, it isn’t that 50% of people get divorced, it is 50% of marriages that end in divorce. It doesn’t seem like much, but anyone who has been divorced and remarried (especially multiple times) skews that statistic. The percentage of people who have been divorced is necessarily lower.
Why does saying there is no “I” in marriage mean you cannot have separate accounts? The author even stated that in addition to their joint account, the couple has separate bank accounts! There is a difference between having separate accounts with full disclosure and discussion about where the family money goes (a team), and having separate accounts so you can have hidden debt or wealth (”I”). There is a difference in having joint accounts because you have shared goals (”team”), and having joint accounts because one person is taking and controlling all the money (”I”). Being a team means you do the best for the team, not for yourself–there is no I in team. In a properly functioning team (and often this is true of a loving, healthy marriage), doing what is best for the team is in the end what was best for you. Having separate accounts may be best for some marriages, having fully joint accounts may be best for some marriages. Some have joint and personal accounts. But all can benefit from the mindset that there is no “I” in team, and therefore none in marriage.
@Cely (#22):
I’m no attorney, but the only time that Person A’s debts carry to Person B after Person A’s death is when Person B is a co-signer on that debt. IMHO, it’s a bad idea to cosign on a debt for anyone, even a spouse. My wife has authorization to use my credit card, but is not a cosigner of the card (there is a difference - google it). As an authorized user, she has her own card with my card number and can use it freely, but she is not liable for repayment if I croak unexpectedly. The credit card company could try to come after her for it, but they have no legal leg to stand on.
Debts to a person are paid at death by that person’s estate. If insuffient funds exist in the estate to make good for the debt, then the debtors don’t get to collect.
In most cases, the big thing that muddies the waters is a home mortgage with both spouses being party to the loan. I think the issue of how to apply the house to the estate is a state-by-state one. But not really sure. That’s why we keep enough life insurance to cover our mortgage balance plus some.
Good article about getting finances together and how to compromise, for those about to get married.
I’d add, though, 16+ years later, that talking about life goals is the most important thing a couple can do before and during a marriage. The rest of the stuff is how to get there (or a close-enough approximation).
Re: JD’s comment — there is definitely a place for “I”s in our household. However, with 2 kids and 16-years’ accumulation of shared assets (married and living in 2 community property states!), there’s a lot more “we” in most conversations than “I”. JD and Kris live much like DH and I did when we were first married and living as “independent married people”, and could keep a lot of time and money separated. We are extremely interdependent now!
Regarding an earlier comment: Being 7 years younger than DH and living a much healthier lifestyle, I do think I’ll end up on my own for many years, but I hope there will be a lot of time between now and then, so we still generally think in terms of “our” best interest, with some thought to after “us”.
This topic has been beat to death on every blog I can think of. To me it comes down to whether you think of marriage as a spiritual connection - a joining of two at all levels of intimacy - or a civil union of two individuals. If the latter (which is most people), by all means maintain your separate finances and protect yourselves from each other, because there is a high probability you will probably need that protection when the relationship founders. If the former, challenge yourselves to operate as a single financial entity.
Surprise surprise, everyone thinks the way finances are managed in THEIR marriage is the best way! I do too, of course, and I think my roast potato technique is top notch too but none of you are married to me so that’s okay. I would reinforce the points above that separate chequing accounts are more of a day to day management thang, and not about splitting every last little expense to the dollar nor hiding paystubs under the mattress. And that there are about a zillion ways of having separate finances. Not that any of us are going to persuade the other side anyway.
(And entertainingly, there’s always someone who states that those with separate finances lack the same level of commitment *rolls eyes* - literally in this comment thread’s case!)
I feel like I think about this subject so much differently than a lot of the people here. We’re married. We’re family. We share everything. The only things that are “mine” or “hers” are personal things that don’t share well. Our clothes are each of ours. The surfboards are mine, she’d never use them. The knitting stuff is hers, I’ll never use it. But if one or the other of us asked? Of course we’d each share.
But then, I’m currently the sole breadwinner in our family, and I have no resentment about that. I don’t mind that I spend a portion of “my” income on my wife. I really don’t get the viewpoint that expects me to feel that way. The goal here is to lead the sort of lifestyle we want. I’m not going to quit my job regardless, so why wouldn’t I support my wife if I make enough to do so? She likes the freedom she has not needing to work, why would I resent helping to give her that opportunity?
People get *so* attached to their stuff (or their money, but really, the two are interchangeable), they’re so protective of it. Sometimes I feel like I’m in the minority for being more attached to my wife than my things or my bank account. Maybe it’s a product of my situation, but if I can’t buy a new say, camera, cause my wife needs something, I’ll happily wait a while for the camera knowing that my wife is taken care of in the meantime. If we refer back to J.D.s “battle against stuff,” it looks to me like this is a battle that most people are losing, even if they really want to look like they’re winning. They just can’t knock “stuff” down a level or two in importance, it sits way up there at the top of their priorities, such that many won’t even share it with their spouses.
@Nicole (#14): (I hope J.D. doesn’t mind if I share this) March 14th, I believe. It’s probably nothing like what you’ll be expecting, though.
This was a horrible post, just awful. The only part I can even agree with this guy on is when he says “it is our retirement”. Everything else seems like trite bits of advice he’s read in Cosmo or something. Blech!
I would like to read a good post about getting a non-saver to think about retirement. My husband won’t save a penny because his company no longer matches in a 401K. I have a ROTH, but I am thinking about long term and wondering what will happen if only I have saved? Any suggestions would be helpful but an actual post would be great!
JD, I think the first point about there being no “I” is correct when it comes to money.
I know of two couples who think that there is an “I” when it comes to money and both of their marriages are train wrecks. In both of these relationships, there is disparate earnings. But I imagine that this kind of “what I earn is mine” attitude would be just as toxic even if a couple is earning high incomes at about the same level; it would just take longer to notice what a problem it is (it would come up during major purchases or hard economic times).
Chickybeth, what will happen if only you save is that you and your husband will only have that money when you retire (and SSI). If you think you will need more, then put more in your ROTH. Personally, if my employer didn’t match, I wouldn’t put money in my 401k either, I’d get a ROTH!
I think guiness has an excellent point about how each marriage is different. When I found my husband, it was important to me to know if he was a saver, and what kind of things he spent money on. That isn’t very romantic, and it seems oversimplified, but it’s made our marriage so much easier, the fact that we both tend to spend money on the same kinds of “toys” and not care so much about other kinds of expensive “toys.”
I share Tyler’s situation and attitude. The income I bring home is 100% ours. If either of us wants something, we buy it. If we can’t afford it, we save for it. Period.
@Aleks, it can be dangerous to be completely reliant on someone for your income if they do not treat you as an equal. If the income earner treats the stay-at-home spouse as an equal, then the non-earning spouse should be co-owner of all their assets, first of all. Secondly, those situations are exactly what alimony is meant for: when one spouse has foregone a career to be the at-home support system for the other spouse for years, they are entitled to a percentage of the income after a divorce. On the other hand, my best friend’s husband cleaned out their joint account and left her after 7 years of marriage, and they didn’t own any assets together or have any kids. There wasn’t anything she could do about it. Makes a pre-nup seem like a good idea. If both parties are cool with the whole “ours” thing, then signing a 50-50 pre-nup shouldn’t be a problem for either of them. But nobody who’s about to get married does that!
To Mike #30 (Re #25): The law is state-by-state but in Michigan (and California and other “community property” states) married persons are jointly liable for all debt incurred during the marriage.
Illinois has this law: “The Illinois Family Expense Act makes spouses jointly liable for “the expenses of the family and of the education of the children.” The law presumes that both spouses agree to pay for family expenses.”
If you are curious, just look up the law in your own state, but assume what you don’t know about your partner can potentially harm you.
Sixteen years ago when we got married, our finances went like this: We both had full-time jobs and joint accounts, he controlled all of the finances and paid all of the bills. I was able to shop for professional clothing without any problems.
After having children, it is now like this: He works 2 jobs,I work part-time so I could watch the kids without putting them in daycare, he controls all of the finances and pays all of the bills, we have joint accounts and separate accounts.
Why the changes? Well, once the kids came and the expenses grew, I was became a SAHM. But I wanted to work a little for extra income (and social security benefits!).I started working part-time and still was able to care for the childen. My small job can pay for food, holiday/birthday items, etc. His separate account is there as a way to save more money for other expenses/investments. In the end, all money for retirement will mostly come from his working so much, but he said he wanted me to take care of the family and my health ( I’m diabetic).
It’s not a perfect system by any means. It took alot of trial/error and layoffs for us to come to this arrangement!
I totally agree that saving is still saving no matter what. The sub-saving account method is helpful for me to keep track of where money goes to and I know exactly if I’m on track to have enough for my savings goals. Of course I could do it with a spreadsheet but I don’t want to think about that. And really, it’s mostly about psychology, if you have a lump sum of money that’s not really specified for a purpose, you’d tend to spend more of it.
I love the idea about falling in love and sharing expenses with your significant other. I’m not married but I can certainly see the benefits of a marriage. A great post WC!
I think it’s different for every family. Right now, since my husband is deployed, I manage all the money. (I’ll probably do it when I’m deployed too, since my husband isn’t that great at managing money.) He’s got a “mad money” account and if he spends that money on bonbons and bourbon, I don’t care. So, in that regard, we’re both together and apart. *shrug* What’s most important is that each family/couple/whatever finds what works for them.
I’m defintiely in the “our” money camp. However, some ‘fun money’ for each partner can certainly make the machine move more smoothly. Communication is defintely key issue. Decisions that are made together seldom come back to hurt the relationship.
#3 @Aleks, I hear what you are saying. 2 years with no kids and the newness still probably helps quite a bit.
I would disagree that there is no “I” in marriage but when it comes to finances, I would agree.
My wife and I have been together for nearly 19 years. I don’t think we are the poster children for great financial communication but we got to a system that has produced great results. One thing I can tell you is that if you are good about making and saving money, and living below your means, there really isn’t much to talk about other than what house to buy, how the retirement funds are doing, and which colleges. My wife could care less if I used Mint, Excel, or Quicken (have used them all). She cares about the big picture: career progression, income progression, cash and stocks, and retirement.
One of the things that our priest said to us on our wedding day is that a marriage is almost never 50/50. Most of the time one person in the marriage has to do more at any given time. Sometimes you have to be Superman for a while and carry the load. If you feel resentment for carrying 80% for a while, you’ve missed the spirit of marriage.
Don’t expect things to be 50/50 when it comes to finances and don’t expect it always to be a nice even compromise. There are things in marriage that one person will bang the table for and get. For me, it was getting rid of all debt and saving money from the day we got together. For my wife it was decisions about school for the kids that she felt adamant about. These weren’t “let’s split the difference” types of conclusions. We had the big arguments but at the end of the day, decision made, and we moved on.
In terms of money, I can’t remember a time where I ever thought I had separate money, not since the day we started living together. We naturally had separate retirement accounts, but everything else is joint. Maybe I am old school, but I don’t get the separate accounts thing for married people. I guess if you wanted to have a little account for buying stuff you want. Right now I am working with someone that has gotten bitten by separate accounts. He finally merged accounts and found out that his wife was spending $80,000 a year on clothing! Seriously. I’d doubt if my wife has spent that much in 19 years. I couldn’t figure out how two people making $350,000 couldn’t have a penny in savings but that made it pretty clear. That’s an example of why I don’t like separate accounts. Joint accounts make the conversations happen quicker.
Funny thing about the 2 year comments. We are going on 19 years this year and I still think that we are newbies! I always think of the people that are worth listening to have 35 or 40 years of marriage experience. Hope this is useful to those that wanted to hear more experience.
One last point: On cooking together. My wife hates to cook, I love it. I cook for her and I am happy to do it. I’ll cook a feast for everybody any time I can. I tried to make it more equal one time and the kids started to complain about the food! Same thing when daddy tries to fold the laundry, nobody is happy.
Don’t try to make everything equal, it’s never 50/50.
I have been married for 34 years to a wonderful man who sees absolutely no relationship between money and bills. It took me two years to realize this, and at that point I took over our finances pretty much completely. (I come from a family of economists.) As long as he has money for coffee, books, and music, he is happy. This has been quite a burden for me, but also easier in some ways. I have tried over the years to get him to pay some attention to our finances, but on two occasions he has literally gone to sleep in his chair rather than think about them.
Anyhow, last month I got him to look at all my lovely spreadsheets again — not an easy job — and at the end showed him a bar graph that I had set up showing when the car, house, one cc, and various education loans would be paid off and when, as a result, he could retire. Suddenly, great interest on his part! He asked me to show it to him again next month when I have paid the bills once more! I have always known that he is an extremely visual person, but if I had realized that all it took was a bar graph to get him to understand what was going on, I would have shown it to him a lot sooner.
Which proves that even after all this time, marriage can be surprising.
I have worked with couples around money issues and a common problem is they have a narrow view of spending, earning and saving. This easily leads to problems discussing finances. I lead them to a bigger vision that they both share- a house, a baby, a college education, an early retirement. When there are shared goals with a passion to make it happen– all of a sudden saving and discussing finances becomes easy.
Fern Alix LaRocca CFP®
I have to side with the other people who are saying that marriage requires shared finances. Sure, each individual should have their “fun money,” but those are just individual categories in a larger financial plan (unless you got a prenup).
Marriage is communism. If you want to divorce yourself from Mother Russia, the judge isn’t going to care when you say “This military base is in my territory. This oilfield is also in my territory.” He’s not going to care whose bank account is in whose name. He’s not going to care whose name the house is in or whose name is on the Ferrari (unless you got a prenup).
Anything obtained during the marriage is part of the marital estate. Except in increasingly uncommon circumstances, a court will split the marital estate fifty fifty in the event of divorce. So all of this planning for the worst silliness doesn’t hold water (unless you got a prenup).
If you want to have separate finances and pretend you’re not married… fine, just don’t get married. Once you do get married, the law will treat you as partners, whether you like it or not. (Unless you got a prenup… by the way, do you really want to ask the love of your life to sign a prenup? I can see if you got taken to the cleaners by your last spouse and now you’re marrying someone half your age who has certain physical attributes that tend to affect your judgment, but otherwise?)
I completely agree with #15 (Ely). And #32 (Mr. ToughMoneyLove), what a load of crap! Sheesh.
I can’t imagine why anyone would think that separate accounts means splitting everything right down the middle, as someone else said, “like roommates who don’t like each other.”
I wouldn’t mind having a joint account for some things, because my (already joint, but he’s never used it, just opened it for me) bank account is no-fee. However, he likes that he can go to an actual branch with his bank (I can’t). But having separate accounts works for us. I manage the money anyway, even his account.
@Martin (#45):
Why do you assume that couples who keep separate bank accounts are “planning for the worst,” or that we don’t realize that marital assets are split 50/50 in the event of a divorce? Sometimes that’s just the way things work out. Not everything has to be that big of a deal. Sheesh.
I can’t believe I just got to this post in my reader! This is right up my alley as a marriage blogger and lover of all things personal finance. I have written a lot about these issues and lived even more in our nine years of marriage.
I have to disagree with JD on the “separation of finances” issue. I believe strongly that marriage does mean that you become one in a spiritual sense, and I think this also applies to the way finances are handled.
When you agree to spend your life with someone (your WHOLE life), a merging of finances should be part of the commitment. It’s your marriage, your family and your money…together. Do you try to separate your children and claim that they only belong to one of you?
They are a product of your marriage and they belong to both of you because they came from both of you. Your children couldn’t exist without your oneness.
I couldn’t make a living the specific way I do without my wife’s support and vice versa. The finances in our household exist as a product of the commitment we’ve made to each other. There is no mine and hers. It’s simply “ours” and I really do feel that this is the healthiest way to handle family finances.
That said, I’ve written about the issue of separate or joint bank accounts, and I definitely see both sides of that issue. However, at the end of the day, the family’s overall finances should be treated as a family issue and not an individual decision.
Just my thoughts of course.
I’m in the “our money” camp, but I don’t think that has to mean you have to have a joint account. In the UK, linking with another person financially with a joint bank account or similar means that their finances will influence your credit score, so plenty of couples here where one partner has a bad score and one partner has a good score will keep separate bank accounts. However, I think there has to be a mentality of shared goals and indeed of a shared pot of money for the family (wherever that money happens to reside)- otherwise you get situations like described above, where one partner is left out in the cold. (I also think this is why it’s important to marry someone who can be on the same page as you about money issues..it makes things a lot easier.)
I also think that the fact that the author of this post has only been married for ~2 years doesn’t negate his experience- I’ve been married for about the same amount of time (plus we lived together before that) and have learned tons about jointly managing money in the last few years. Sure our perspective will change as we get older and go through more of life together, but I like to think that we’re laying the foundation now and that’s worthwhile.
“Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.”
Yeah, but only if you have 2 incomes. I’m the breadwinner, dh is SAHD/student and takes care of our dd. On my own, I would be happy in a studio, using public transport. With dh and dd we need a 2br apartment and a car. On my own, I would not ‘need’ cable tv, ipod, iphone, meat, chips, soda, which dh cannot live without
Together, we’re costing more than twice me-alone.
Thanks to everyone for the great comments! And the not so great ones ;).
I will say that we do have separate bank accounts and “mad money” that we do as we will with. Our bonuses, for example, are our own. And any money we make on the side—that’s for us to do as we see fit. I think it’s very important to have your own money that you can do what you want with, no questions asked.
In the end, my main point was that you never know as much as you think you know. And marriage was one way that I broadened my horizons and adapted to our new situation. We each have to do what works for our unique situation.
I’m a fan of you should do what works for you (as J.D. would say).
First, I think there are two individuals in every marriage, so there is and “I” and that I is important and should be respected.
Regarding finances.
When we bought a house together, before we were married, I managed all the joint finances and my finances. We split the expnses based on how much each person made. I contributed more since I made more. Any remaining money could be spent on whaterver either of us wanted. At that point I still used a credit card for day to day expenses but had no credit card or other debt. Mr. Sam had credit card debt and student loan debt. I had no information as to how he was managing it or not except what he might share. Our savings goals were separate, I was saving and maxing out my 401k, Mr. Sam contributed to his 401k but was not maxing it our and didn’t have a savings account. This system worked fine for us at the time.
After marriage, I read Ramsey’s TMM and took over management of all our finances. In our first year of marriage we paid off all non-mortgage debt that totaled $55,500 (most of it was Mr. Sam’s debt). We stopped using credit cards and we got on an allowance system (we each have the same amoung of allowance). All money that comes into the house is our money but we each still have a separate checking account that we use for our allowance money. We also since 2007 have each maxed out our 401ks, and we have joint savings goals. Combining finances worked for us, we were able to pay off all that debt mostly because instead of me spending “my” extra money I put it towards paying off Mr. Sam’s debt. It was a choice, but I really wanted us to be debt free. Mr. Sam is generally happy with our system although at times he complains that I wield all the power, which is true, when it comes to our finances. But he is very happy that he is debt free and very happy that we have an emergency fund and that he has been able to max out his 401k and his IRA the past three years.
@Chickybeth
Mr. Sam did contribute to his 401k, but not much, so I just had him give me his passwords and up’d his contribution level. Same thing for IRA, I manage our IRAs and do the contributing (comes from joint money) and make the investment selections. He manages the investments in his 401k.
I’m not sure, just making someone increase their savings, as I did, would work for everyone. But since I pay the bills, manage our spending plan and give him his allowance (I get the same amount) he sees that we can afford to sock as much away as possible in retirement accounts.
I guess I might ask him what he sees himself doing in retirement, hopefully it is something fun, like boating or traveling, etc., and he can understand that such a retirement will cost money, then you run one of those calculators and he’ll see that he’s not putting aside enough.
I am surprised at such venom and ridiculous statements from people opposing “separate” finances, as if one partner would let the other be homeless or starve. Do you think that having joint finances is what keeps your partner from forcing you onto the street?
I can’t ever imagine combining my day to day spending with that of my partner. I am very much a credit-card-everything and track it online type of person, and he is a “I take out X$ in cash and that is it for two weeks” person. Financially we’re on different planets.
@Siebre: I went from one income alone to one income with a SAH husband, and it has actually saved me a lot of money, mainly because he cooks, whereas I ordered a lot of takeout. We moved to a larger place, but that increase has been almost exactly offset by the increase in take-home pay that I have now that my tax status is married filing jointly. I’m able to excel more at the office because I have a support system at home now, so I’ve asked for and received a raise and a bonus in the year we’ve been married. ;-D
Also, hubby drives me to the train station every morning for work and then he has the car all day for whatever he needs to do, so we don’t need more than one old, paid-for car.
Agreeing with Irene (#54) and others. What is with all the ugliness about couples that maintain separate finances? It’s going far beyond a “That doesn’t seem like an efficient method” type of critique into really personal sorts of digs–”Well, that CLEARLY shows that you don’t have a strong marriage!!!”
My husband and I have maintained separate finances for over 14 years now. Contrary to what people seem to suppose, it does not mean that we do not (A) share long term financial goals or (B) care for each other financially. Despite what people seem to be assuming, we do not live our financial lives in a vacuum. Every few months we look at our monthly breakdown and make sure that neither partner is shouldering too much of the burden, and we also discuss long term shared goals, such as the major renovations we hope to do one day. When one of us suffers a financial hit, we discuss how we’re going to deal with it as a team. The only difference between us and couples with joint accounts is that we have two statements rather than one, and that we definitely share the responsibility and involvement 50-50, rather than one of us taking over the chore by default.
It seems to me–especially after seeing many of my peers going through ugly divorces–that good communication is FAR more important to a relationship than whether or not you pay your bills out of a single checking account or two separate ones. Our relationship works because we can trust each other implicitly, because we know that we are looking out for each other, and because we are both working towards the same shared goals. It’s got nothing to do with shared vs. separate accounts (or online vs. paper based budgeting, or single vs. multiple targeted savings accounts for that matter).
My parents have had joint and separate money for years - since my mother started working full time in her mid-40s (she’s now 79). They each contributed to the joint “household” account a percentage based on their income. My father always made more money than my mom, so he put a larger percentage in. Whatever money was left over was theirs to do with what they wanted. My parents have been married for almost 61 years and have had lots of fights over the years, but never fought about money. My dad didn’t care that my mom went on holidays with her friends (he hates to travel, she likes it), mom didn’t care that he donates a lot to the church (he’s devout, she’s not). It worked for them and continues to work for them.
Thanks, Sam #53. I already do all the finances which is kind of burning me out. It’s hard to know if I am doing the right things financially for both of us, when only I have to do all the research and make all the decisions. Maybe I’ll try the bar graph approach…..
After being married for a year and talking with many friends about marriage, the only thing I know about marriage and money is that you need to talk about it.
There is no right or wrong way to handle finances for a couple. The important thing is that you share the same values and goals.
There is no I.
I so so so disagree. Thinking that way will get you nothing but trouble and misery.
Okay, I see a difference of semantics.
I assumed that the people talking about separate finances meant that they each had their own financial world, which would seem like a tough way to run a marriage. How would you handle retirement? BUT, it seems like a lot of the people who have separate finances simply keep things separate but talk about joint goals. That’s the same thing as having joint accounts with different sub-accounts.
I was thinking there is no real “I” in marriage finances since you both have to work together for goals like buying a home or saving for retirement. Finding out your spouse isn’t saving enough later in life would be a disaster.
If you have separate bank accounts but share the same goals, that’s not really “separate” finances, is it? Y’all are just keeping your joint money in different places.
I would consider “separate” finances those situations where one spouse has no idea how the other spouse is doing. That would lead to trouble, right?
I cannot even fathom having separate finances. I hear about it all the time but still can’t comprehend how it works. My husband and my finances are “ours,” no exceptions. I make considerably more money than he does, and would never want him to think that he can’t do what he wants with that money- he wants a night out with the guys- go ahead! Shopping- of course! And I do the same. Anything big we talk about and agree on first. If money is separate, what about spending for kids? Retirement (assuming you’re retiring together), travel? I just don’t get it. But we both have the exact same mindset when it comes to money, so maybe thats what makes it work…I have no idea. We’re a family, a unit…money and all.
One more thing. How many people out there help pay off their spouses debts? Or use joint money to pay off the debts. Once married, do you consider it “our debt” or “his/her debt?” Just curious, I’ve always wondered about this…
I also think that finances should be joint after marriage. If they aren’t then its almost like there is some sense of competition, and you may also feel pride that your spouse holds their own, safety in that they can’t gamble everything away at once, and independent because you decide where your money goes. I don’t think this brings people close or holds them there though. It reminds me more of siblings than spouses, and does not seem very mature. I also don’t think the joint approach handles sickness, unemployment, disaster etc very well.
Some of the people posting about separate finances seem more like they are really joint with some compromises.
@Brenda (#20):
“Everyone knows the divorce rate is around 50%.”
Do they? Do they truly “know” it, or has it simply been repeated so many times that it’s accepted as fact, and critical analysis is no longer necessary?
That oft-cited statistic really bothers me. It professes to take the incredibly complex and intricate subtlties of relationships and presumes to distill it down into one, easy-to-digest number. It makes young couples believe that, as they’re walking down the aisle, their marriage has 50/50 odds off success or failure.
The truth, of course, is much more complicated than that.
In reality, certain demographics are at a much higher risk of divorce than others. A young, well-educated, financially secure, childless couple, both getting married for the first time, has much better than 50/50 odds of having a successful marriage. On the other hand, a low-income 45-year old single parent, getting married for the third time, with emotional baggage and demanding relatives is at a much higher risk of having that marriage end in divorce. In between, there’s an entire spectrum of varying risk rates.
Age, economic means (including broadly disparate means between the individuals getting married), the presence of children, history of abuse, criminal records, substance abuse, different religions, education levels, geographic factors, and many, many more elements contribute to the likelihood of whether or not a marriage will succeed. To try and flatly say that any given marriage has a 50/50 shot at ending in divorce, while ignoring all those contributory factors, is dishonest, misleading and overly simplistic.
Now, having gotten my “divorce” rant out of my system, I’m afraid I have to join the chorus that disagrees with JD. I firmly believe that once married, a couple should merge their finances completely, while keeping a small, equal amount each month for individual spending (the so-called “mad money”). To manage it any other way seems cowardly to me.
Marriage is about trusting your partner completely. Keeping separate accounts just seems like hedging your bets to me, and suggests distrust. It just seems wrong to me.
@KM (#23):
“You’re sharing expenses such as utilities, but you can get that same effect from a roommate.”
Not exactly. While you may be getting some of the same benefits (splitting the utilities and housing expenses across two paycheques instead of one), you don’t get the same tax benefits available to married couples.
Furthermore, unless you plan to retire with your roommate, you don’t get the benefit of compounding the extra savings in tax-sheltered retirement accounts like you do with a spouse.
@Cely (#25):
“If you get married, and your partner runs up $10K of credit card debt (known to you or not), then dies, you are responsible for that debt, correct? ”
I think it depends on your state, but no, you are not personally responsible for the debt unless you co-signed for it. Your partner’s estate is still liable for the debt, and any assets he/she owned must be applied toward their debt, but that doesn’t include joint assets (unless you die, too). They can’t take assets you own (even partially own) to settle a debt you didn’t sign for.
@Chelsea:
“But if one spouse prefers low risk investments and the other higher so they keep things separate isn’t this the same idea?”
So what happens if their “high risk investments” don’t pan out, and you reach retirement age with vastly different portfolios? Do you spend your winters in a condo in Florida and leave him shivering at home in Vermont, and say “tough luck, guess you shouldn’t have made such risky investments”? I should hope not!
“If one person is uncomfortable with their hard earned money going in the stock market, should they be forced into it, because their accounts are all ‘joint’ and the money-manager spouse wants to do it that way.”
Are you saying that keeping separate accounts allows married couples to avoid having the hard conversations about money? Is that really a good thing?
Maybe couples should live in separate houses, too, so they don’t fight about how clean the bathrooms should be, or how often the garbage should be taken out?
My in-laws have been married for 42? years and the husband has been the sole ‘breadwinner’ for all except 7 of those years. Still, when a bill gets paid (wife does the finances), she has to ask DH for the money to pay it. Also, when something is purchased (i.e. Girl Scout cookies), I have to ask who will owe us the money for them. Don’t even get me started about how they buy lottery tickets. It’s all so stupid.
Just merge the money, make it simple…no percentages of what he or she makes, no fights about who will pay for the kids expensive piano lessons…just get on with it!
My sister and husband can’t agree on buying a vehicle to replace their unsafe 13 y.o. SUV which breaks down, has many little quirks and problems. Yet they have two small kids who need to ride in it!! Why? Because neither one of them wants to be the one to pay the loan (sis claims she’d have to go to work full-time if she wants a newer (SAFER) car!). Sorry- It’s nuts.
DH and I have been together 28 years, married 12, and have always had “separate” accounts. (We are LEGALLY joint owners, but he has one that he uses, I have one I use, and there’s a joint account as well).
We each contribute funds to the joint account each month. We have a negotiated agreement about maxing out our IRAs from joint funds, and I separately am maxing out my 403(b) account (I’m the saver).
We talk about joint goals (travel, retirement, a plane fund for DH, a lake house for both of us) and we have ING accounts set up for those goals (although DH knows very little about them, and cares even less).
I direct pretty much all the financial maneuvering; DH works in the business that we bought. So I consider his work his “giving at the office” and take care of as much of the rest of it as I can.
For us, the beauty of the separate AND joint accounts is that we are accountable to one another in terms of working towards our goals. But we also have the ability to do our own hobbies, and have some money that is spent individually.
There are some areas for discussion, true. He wishes I wasn’t so obsessed with retirement savings. I wish he didn’t want to own a plane someday - it will be expensive.
But we DO communicate, and that’s key, I think.
We are the most stable, committed couple we know. Our financial structure has nothing to do with that. (DH’s brother always had joint accounts, and imploded two marriages). It’s not a defining characteristic of commitment, IMO, and it annoys me that other people make arguments about being ONE.
We’re not ONE. I’m likely to live for a decade longer than he will. He’s likely to be in better health than I will. Each of us will have INDIVIDUAL challenges, and saying some spiritualistic clap-trap about how marriage equals uniformity really annoys me.
Ahem.
This is one of those discussions that shall continue to have people talking past each other as we read a term: ’separate finances’ and put our own definition to it.
I know a couple with true separate finances and it’s very strange to me. She was recently laid off and we asked if he could cover the entire mortgage on his own. He said maybe, but she would have to dip into her retirement to pay her half of the mortgage. It doesn’t matter how much money HE has, she has to pay her half of expenses. When the roles were reversed that was what she insisted on. THIS is the sort of relationship many people picture when they hear ’separate finances’. I fully expect when they retire (assuming they are still together) he will retire on his money and her on hers, with wrangling and arguing about the electric bill.
I can appreciate the decision to treat finances as roommates would when one comes into the relationship with financial baggage. For example when one or both partners have children from previous relationships. But I have known plenty of people who keep separate financial lives simply because they ARE holding themselves back from the relationship. These people are usually older when they get married and don’t WANT to compromise. I think this can be both a curse, because it is indicative of an unwillingness to truly enter the marriage, or it can be a blessing by removing a point of contention between two people set in their ways.
There is no point in getting married. Over half of all marriages end in divorce. You will lose half your money and your house if you get divorced. Michael Jordan lost over $168 million from his divorce.
The most important reason not to get married is that if you get married then your chances of having kids increases significantly. Once you have a kid, then your life is pretty much over and you have to pay over half a million dollars to raise the kid from 0 to 20 years. Google COMPOUNDING and the cost of kids if you have doubts about the half a mil cost.
Once again, “separate” finances are no more or less prone to control issues, deception, and/or detachment from a relationship than any “joint” account, regardless of how you define “separate”.
Since all the people I know who are in the process of getting divorced have joint accounts (and a few have discovered hidden debt or been walled off from the couple’s money), should I naturally, from my position as being happily married with separate accounts, make the assumption that joint accounts are the worse method for a couple to choose? I don’t, because I recognize that the specific issues causing the splits would have been in those relationships no matter what. If someone is going to use money to control a partner, they’ll find a way to do it even if there’s a joint account. And if someone wants to hide money or debt, they’ll find a way to do that as well.
Excellent tips here. I’m getting married in a few months and I can’t wait to start working together with the misses on our finances.
David — I wouldn’t trade my kids for all the money in the world. Half a million sounds like a bargain to me.
@35 Chickybeth,
I stand corrected - thanks!
Just the other day, my wife bought a purse that we didn’t budget for at all, and broke several family guidelines of: not letting the other person know about discretionary purchases costing over $150 and also by not paying in cash (we are generally a debt free family, minus the mortgage). She told me she thought about not telling me about it, but I’m glad she did because #1, it helped me plan for how to adjust to that new lack of funds in the immediate future; and #2, it keeps the trust going strong in our relationship.
Sure, I was ticked off about the purchase, but I would much rather my wife be comfortable telling me about her guilty pleasures up front than for her to silently rake up a huge pile of debt (not that she would).
Bottom line, I think the healthiest way for a couple to coexist is to make sure the communication lines are always open, especially regarding family finances, regardless of whether you spell marriage with an “I” or with a “We”.
@Kevin: “I firmly believe that once married, a couple should merge their finances completely, while keeping a small, equal amount each month for individual spending (the so-called “mad money”). To manage it any other way seems cowardly to me.”
Now I think this opinion is too ill. Marriage is also about respecting our partner. The idea of setting a equal amount each month for individual spending is more likely for parents and children, not for husband and wife relationship. Do I want to control my DH’s pocket? Definitely no, I am not his mother. Do I want my DH to check my pocket every day? Heck no, I’ve already had my parent and I am old enough to act on my own.
We have separated and join accounts. Just like many people on this, we deposit the same amount of money monthly to the joint account so that I could pay bills and mortgages. We use our separated account to do whatever we want: DH loves to eat out with friends at lunch while I bring lunch to work, I sometimes give my parent some money.. things like these. We do compete each other (a bit) about who is saving more. This actually helps us know how much we have separately and at the same time none of us has the feeling of controlling or being controlled by the other.
@72 David - how controversial your view is, but I respect your choice of not wanting marriage or kids. Though personally, I agree with #75 Tazdollars - my kids are priceless.
They’re great fun and they’re also a great hedge against dying alone, or being sent in old age to a crappy assisted living home where no one visits you. If you raise kids right, odds are they’ll be there for you as you age. In many ways, I consider my kids an investment in my own future.
Love the idea about cooking together! Also, if you have kids, it’s not just a husband-wife thing, the kids can get involved, too. It can be a great family activity. And, it can save a lot of money!
I also disagree with the notion that there is no “I” in marriage. Like JD, I see my husband and I as more of a “team” than as a single entity. We generally keep separate accounts but for big mutual purchases, we pool our money. Also, my husband always pays whenever we go out and I pay my student loan payments and my credit card payments (he is wracking up his student loan debt now) and he pays for his credit card. It works for us. If I go shopping for new clothes (not too often) I just buy what I like. I know what I can afford. He’s the same way. Once he’s out of school, we plan to start saving for retirement (I’m 25 now, he’s 26) and we will contribute equally to that fund. Maybe this works only because we don’t yet have children, but it does work for us and we’ve been happily married for almost 4 years. If our method ever stops working… we’ll change.
#32 — I don’t think you can estimate the love two people have for each other based on whether or not they have a joint bank account. I’ve never met anyone that I love and respect more than my husband and I do think our connection is spiritual and far more profound than a mere legal union. I think appraising a relationship based on something like banking is pretty silly. Case in point: My parents have a joint account and have had one for years, but they fight like cats and dogs and have been to the point of divorce a few times. My husband and I obviously haven’t been married as long as they have, but our relationship is harmonious and we’re very reasonable with each other. But according to you, my parents have a stronger relationship because of the way they bank. Hmmm… isn’t that sort determining someone’s intelligence based on how they dress ?
Wow - lots of comments. It seems to me all the vitriol is largely a lack of having a common definition either of ‘joint’ or ’separate’ finances. While some seem to define ’separate’, for instance, as ‘living as roommates’, I consider that my husband and I (married 10 years, together for 20) have separate finances b/c we don’t use the same checking accounts for day-to-day spending. However, all our accounts are joint, and we have a budget we agree on, and pool our savings. Some call that joint financing. It’s all about how you define it-
#72: I totally respect your stance on marriage and children, but to be accurate, the often-quoted 50% US divorce rate isn’t entirely accurate: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/health/19divo.html
According to this article, the real rate is more like 40%, BUT that number includes people of all educational/socioeconomic backgrounds. The rate among college educated people is significantly lower than that overall percentage: 25%
So, yes, there is a risk you will end up getting divorced if you get married, but not as much of a risk as people say. And in my experience, the best things in my life have always been the things that require some risk and chance-taking.
@The Skeptical Housewife (47):
The “planning for the worst” statement was a reference to Aleks’s post (#3). Aleks says “‘Til Death’ is a nice goal but it is far from a given. If you only prepare for the best-case scenario, you haven’t really prepared at all.” Aleks says there has to be a balance between “hoping for the best and planning for the worst.”
But having separate finances is not planning for the worst. It’s not a plan at all.
Excuse me for explaining something that I so egotistically thought someone else might not know. My most heartfelt apologies if you felt talked down to, but I wasn’t talking just to you. Maybe you assume that everyone is just as knowledgeable as you, but if that were the case, why would you have a blog?
Sheesh!
I think you made some really good points, and I’m thrilled that you weren’t too shy to write though you’ve “only” been married for two years. I think only someone who has never been married could discount the experience you can gain in two years of marriage. As well say that a mother of a one-year-old doesn’t know how to dress her kid because she’s only been a mother for one year!
I’m also glad you point out that marriage is ’til death. But I won’t elaborate on that…
My hubby and I are kind of the opposite - he likes to use cash a lot, and I prefer to put everything on cards (though I always paid off my credit card at the end of the month while he didn’t mind having a monthly payment on his even when the interest was killing him). We’re still working on creating a good system together and smoothing out the kinks in it all.
I also agree completely with the cooking together thing. I do most of the cooking, but I really love the times when we’re in there working on it together. Even when we end up frustrated, as was the case just two nights ago…
@ Karen (#82)
Thanks for the link! I stated that 50% of marriages end in divorce (opposed to 50% of people who get married get divorced). Thank you for the correction that in fact there are 0.5 divorces per marriage. It’s a distinction with a huge difference.
(Example #1) I used to work at State Farm - a married couple had both of their cars insured there, a co-worker was on the phone with the husband and he was making payment arrangements for his past due premium. Once he made the arrangements, the husband was informed that his wife’s premium was past due as well. His comment was that “she would have to take care of that herself.”
(Example #2) DH has a co-worker who recently purchased a new vehicle, rolling the payments from his previous car into the new car because he had negative equity. The co-worker’s wife was angry that he went out and got a new car - he told my DH that his wife would just have to get over it.
I am also aware of several examples where the more responsible spouse is in reality subsidizing the financial ineptitude of their partner, this can look different ways depending on the household, things like prematurely quitting a job because it’s hard without another one lined up, addiction, excessive consumerism (electronics, clothes), one partner decides to follow their passion which of course never makes any money. The other partner does not have to be responsible because they never are exposed to the consequences of their bad choices. This is grossly unfair.
If I wanted to shoulder life’s burdens alone I would have never gotten married, plain and simple. Marriage for me means a completely integrated life in every sphere of life, including money. Granted those examples at the beginning of the post are probably far from the norm, I willingly concede that. Nevertheless, I think having separate finances insulates one’s choices from accountability with your partner, which is a part of a healthy marriage.
Lots of interesting posts.
We have a joint a/c for household expenses and we also have joint savings for family holidays, house renovation projects etc. Contributions to the joint a/c vary - he has children and therefore contributes more for daily expenses. When we have children together we will re-evalute. Holidays and house renovation projects we contribute 50-50.
We have separate mortgages (on the same house) and therefore keep the rest of our money separate. I am paying my mortgage off at a faster rate b/c that is what I see as important to me & my finances.
This works well for us as we have different priorities with our ‘leftover’ money and helps us keep our independance.
I’m really surprised at the assumptions people feel they can make about the marriages of others based on how a given couple manages their finances. Surely flexibility based on individual circumstances and finding a balance that works for the individuals involved is the best system for managing finances or anything else within a marriage.
As far as the joint vs separate finances goes, spouse and I have had both joint and separate finances at different times in our (10 years and counting) marriage. When we were living in the same house (state, really) we generally kept our finances jointly.
Now and in the past when we have lived in different states, we keep separate finances because it’s too much to keep track of two households worth of finances. Sometimes I visit my spouse at his house, but often we meet in between, so I have no idea how to budget for the gas bill or when it comes or in general what his household expenses are. And I really don’t want to spend our very limited time together dealing with the minutiae how we pay bills. So we keep finances separate and I pay my household expenses and he pays his. We have accounts at different banks, since different banks are available in different states. We each have access to the other’s accounts, but haven’t had to use it.
I also fail to understand how retirement savings would be impacted by joint vs separate finances, since retirement accounts (either with a private co or in an IRA) are individual, not joint.
I’m sure to some our marriage seems very strange, but living in different places for short (1-3 yrs) periods of time is very common in academia and our commitment to each other hasn’t varied according to our living situation. I wouldn’t judge a couple’s commitment to each other based on how they run their marriage.
I’ve known people who lived across the country from their spouse for years, and that doesn’t seem to be a predictor of divorce any more than people who live together all the time and have the potential to drive each other crazy. Most people I know who are divorced had extremely joint finances, and untangling them was a large point of stress in the divorce. But I wouldn’t suggest based on that correlation that joint finances cause divorce.
When we are living in the same household, we will operate our finances jointly, because that is the system that works for us. I hope other married couples are able to find and use a system that works for them, regardless of how it appears to outsiders.
@Martin (#83):
Sorry if I misunderstood you. The “not everything has to be that big of a deal. Sheesh!” was directed more towards everyone on here who’s all worked up that a married couple might have different bank accounts. Imagine being told that your marriage isn’t as good, committed, or as “spiritual” (nonsense word to most of us atheists anyway, dunno where that leaves us) as someone else’s, just because you didn’t completely rearrange your finances when you got married. That’s what a fair number of people in these comments are saying.
Although I think maybe there’s a misunderstanding about joint vs. shared finances. We have separate bank accounts, as in some are in my name and some are in his name. There is no “joint” account (well, that we use as a joint) because there’s no need. I pay everything online anyway. When I was working, if something needed to be paid, I’d pay it from whoever’s account could best handle it at the time, whether that was mine or my husband’s. So I guess you could say our finances are (mostly) joint, even though our bank accounts are separate.
I do find it odd that there are some married couples out there who split everything so carefully down the middle (or however they do it) or refuse to pay for each other’s expenses. None of my business, though, and I certainly wouldn’t go around telling them that it means their marriage won’t work out (only time would tell that).
I wanted to add that from the opposite perspective, I have a friend who completely merged finances with her husband when she married…to the point that they don’t even buy each other Christmas presents, because it’s all “their” money anyway. I don’t understand that at all.
One of our favourite things about Christmas is buying presents and doing up stockings for each other. To me, the fact that they only get presents from parents/other family members seems like they’re in a perpetual state of childhood, where their parents provide the gifts and they’re the “kids.” But again, none of my business.
Maybe I’m just touchy because said friend acts horrified that my husband and I have not completely merged every aspect of our finances, like we’re doing something wrong. Just like a lot of people in this thread!
@ NZ Chick:
Separate mortgages on the same house? Now that’s a new one! I didn’t even know you could do that! So, if your husband falls behind on his mortgage and the bank forecloses, does the bank only get half of the house?
My husband and I have been together for 20 years and we have 2 young children. We have always had joint finances–some years I made more money, some years he did, I supported us when he was in grad school full time, he’s been the primary breadwinner since I’ve been a stay at home Mom. We’ve always considered it all “our money” and our spending habits are very similar. We just haven’t seen any practical need for separate finances.
@Katie #63 re: debt: DH and I both have debt. We’re both working on our own, but with a big difference over a few years ago - he is covering our rent now so that I can pound down my debt fast - and then I’m going to pound down his. It’s *our* future and *our* retirement, so in this case separate finances were producing slower progress than we mutually wanted.
The big challenge comes when the debt is gone; I’ve been living the no-credit life for a few years now, but he hasn’t. That’s something we really need to be on the same page about!
Tyler K - I really appreciated what you wrote above about your relationship.
@Kevin - #68
“Are you saying that keeping separate accounts allows married couples to avoid having the hard conversations about money? Is that really a good thing?”
Not at all. I’m saying that separate accounts allows us to get the same result, with neither of us feeling like we’re losing or doing something that makes us uncomfortable. We talk about money all the time.
I see it this way: He hates the idea of having investments that have any kind of risk. I hate the idea of not having at least a fraction in stocks (inflation-hedge, what-not). So, if our accounts were joint, either he would have to compromise or I would. An investment is either completely risk free or it’s not. If it would really bother him to have “our money” which includes “his money” in stocks, why should I force that upon him? This way, I can invest in stocks from “my money” to aid our overall retirement goals, especially balanced against his low risk investments, without making him uncomfortable or feel controlled.
Once we’re retired or one of us can’t work for other reasons we’ll start joining our money more. Right now we’re young, child-free and both able to work full time. I am the one who tracks the finances for both of us, and we discuss what is going on at least monthly. We just have some different ideas of ideal money management and we each help the other do what they want to do. I help him pick the best safe investments and strategies. He allows me to track all of his expenses and investments and discusses any issues with me.
I don’t know about other marriages but one of our primary goals is to never tell the other person what to do or to try to control them. Luckily (and I would never have married him otherwise) we are very compatible. The other person rarely does something the other doesn’t improve of.
My wife and I got married in our mid twenties. We both just graduated from college, didn’t own much of anything, so sharing everything was easy. When my wife was in medical school, I worked while working full time and going to business school to pay her tuition bills. Now she is a practicing physician making good money, I quit my job to start a new business. During this whole time it was always our money, not yours and mine. Isn’t that what marriage is all about? Okay, maybe I complained a few times when she was in med school.
We have married friends who keeps everything separate. As a result they would sometimes decide not to go on vacation because one of them could not afford to pay for his/her share. Seems so very complicated.
I just don’t understand why if the end result is the same or very similar, why anyone would chose to do things the harder way instead of the easy way.
And I mean that for some couples joint accounts is the hard way and for some it’s the easy way.
By hard, I mean the way that requires more effort, planning, discussions and potentially fights. If your method works for the two of you, that’s great, but it might not be the easy way for everyone.
For example, if my husband and I were having financial problems, we could do the cash envelope system of budgeting, which I’m sure most people are quite familiar with. But I know we would absolutely hate this method. It would require way too much effort to maintain and it’s too picky for our tastes.
What we would do, is to just not spend money, which is easy for us. For other people, this system works great - is highly recommended.
I really dislike people implying that a particular method is not right, when the alternative would be very difficult to do in their situation and cause marital tension.
Beautifully put, Chelsea.
Man, these discussions remind me of parenting discussions on discipline and sleep and everything under the sun. We do what is easiest for us, which isn’t what is easiest for other people and that is OK. Different doesn’t necessarily mean better, just different.
J.D. -
I think the way you and Kris handle your finances would work for very few couples. As a childless married couple you have to admit you are not the “norm.” I am not saying this as a judgement but simply as a fact.
My husband and I have been married for 28 years so if there is someone (as one person mentioned) who wants to hear from a long-time married person, I think I qualify!
I handle all the household finances and some of our business finances. I also have been a SAHM for over 25 years.
So what does this mean and how does it affect our finances? My husband and I agreed that I would stay home once we had our kids. My contribution to our family is PRICELESS. We have four kids ages 25 to 7 AND I have been home-schooling for 20 years so there has never been a time where I could “go back to work” even if I wanted to.
I am presently working on launching a home-school website that I HOPE will eventually provide some income, but if it never does or if it is a minimal amount it is irrelevant, because again I provide value to this family that cannot be quantified.
Why do I handle the finances? Simply because I am an organized, detail person and my husband is not. And when I say I handle everything I mean EVERYTHING. I handle the checkbook, bills, insurances, medical accounts, retirement accounts…Again, when I say my contribution cannot be quantified it is not only because of the contribution I am making to my children’s lives, but also the time I have spent making sure we are getting the best rates on insurance, or cooking the great majority of our meals instead of eating out or shopping wisely for clothes or anything else. There is more to helping the family finances than just bringing in an income.
My husband is a self-employed contractor, and I have handled the books for that for 17 years so in fact, I do “have a job!” Again, just because I don’t get a paycheck doesn’t mean I don’t contribute!
I keep the personal checkbook and my husband has a business checkbook to use if he wants to say, buy me a gift!
In other words, we both have money that we each handle but it is all our money…it all comes out of OUR business either as draws or when he cashes a check to have some money on hand.
So I have to agree with those who say that FOR MOST COUPLES the idea of “my” money and “your” money is probably not a healthy paradigm. What works for you, J.D. wouldn’t work for most. Especially when children come into the picture, as it does for most married couples, it complicates everything - in a good way I think! But complicate it does.
I think being a couple is about working together rather than against each other, but that doesn’t mean there is no “I”. Obviously the Is will influence the “we”. Actually, I’d even say “there is no “we” without “I”s.
A lot of the time, being a happy couple is about knowing to solve your individual problems before anything else, rather than bring them into the couple and bringing down the couple.
You don’t become one giant two-headed person. You each have your centers of interest, your things you’re willing to spend for or not, etc.
I think it’s important that some of the budget will be “pocket money” that the person has and can spend however they want, without having to ask for permission or even say what they did spend it on after the fact. Only decision that would affect the other person (I don’t know, like adopting a dog or something) should be discussed before hand if the personal money is being used.
Of course you can decide to talk about all of it but really, you shouldn’t have to. If you stop being able to act at all without getting your spouse’s approval first, I’d say your couple is doing you more harm than good.
Just celebrated our 46th anniversary, we have gone through all stages..children, house, major moves, job loss, illness, children growing up and leaving home, and now retirement. We always pooled our money, paid bills first, then split anything remaining for our own spending money. The only thing we did separately was to set up individual IRAs, pretty much splitting the money between the two accounts. Hubby is 2 years older than I am so will begin to draw on his IRA before I do mine. Women need to have their own security in job skills and pension plan as you never know what will happen.