What Marriage Has Taught Me About Money
Published on - February 23rd, 2010 (Modified on - March 12th, 2010) (by J.D. Roth) This is a guest post from WC, a guy in Chicago that writes about money at The Writer’s Coin.
In May, I will celebrate my two-year anniversary with M, my favorite person in the world. I thought I knew a lot about everything before we got married, but now I’m wiser. So for all the newlyweds out there, or the ones thinking of walking the plank getting married, here are some things you should know.
There is no I. Marriage is all about the “we”. It’s not “your” money or “my” money, it’s “our” money. It isn’t your retirement, it’s our retirement. It’s not an easy concept to grasp, but you’d better adjust because when you get married you really don’t have a choice. The sooner you accept it, the easier it will be. Don’t fight it…As you’ll see, this will become a recurring theme throughout your married life.
There is no “right” way to do things. When M and I got married, I checked my bank and credit card accounts every day. M did not — she just made sure there was always money left in her account at the end of the month. When I showed her my method, she was taken aback, but she saw some use to it.
So we found a middle ground: we sit down and run through our budget midway through the month and at the end. It gives us a checkup halfway through and then at the end we check to make sure we met all our goals. It’s like a challenge and it works for us.
Maybe you use a fancy spreadsheet you run through every month that tells you exactly where your money is going. Or maybe you use Mint to track your spending. Or you might be one of those people that does it all in their head — no paper trail necessary.
Either way, it might be the way you do things, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be the way we do things. You will have to adjust and find a way of doing things that works for both of you.
Saving is saving, no matter how you do it. Being a big fan of I Will Teach You to Be Rich, I used to open multiple high yield savings account sub-accounts with specific names for whatever it was I was saving for. It’s called targeted saving, and I thought it was a great idea.
If something unexpected happens, you take money out of the emergency fund and you still get to make your budget. It’s all a psychological thing to keep you feeling like you’re on track.
I showed M the system and she gave me a look: “What’s the point? It’s all the same amount of money either way.” She was right and I started to question how useful the whole system was. In the end, it didn’t make the cut — we didn’t find it useful enough for the time it took to set up. I thought it was a great idea, but M was right: it’s still the same amount of money. End of discussion.
The important thing is that we were saving, regardless of how we did it.
Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.
But you’ll still need to set up a budget that works for the both of you.
I used to use my credit card for everything. It tracked all my spending and gave me some decent rewards. M, on the other hand, liked to have cash in hand. But I wanted to get her to budget, and my system of simply knowing how much you’d already spent (remember by daily checking of accounts?) just wasn’t going to work for her.
But she felt the pressure to find a system that worked for her so we could meet our budget every month. And she did: the envelope system. She took out the money she had allotted for the week and then stopped spending if she ran out of money.
As for me, I still use my credit card like I did before. This was one thing we were able to keep individualized, which is important when you get married (we still have individual accounts outside of our joint account). With all the push to turn I into we, it’s good to have your own things you can do how you want.
The important thing is that you have a budget in the first place.
Cooking together is a great idea. You get to spend time together, it’s good for the budget, it’s healthier, and it creates some equality in an area where traditionally it’s one person doing all the cooking.
In most relationships, one person does all the cooking. Maybe you have an arrangement where the person that doesn’t cook does the dishes to make up for it. That’s fine — but I would recommend trying to spend a fair amount of time in the kitchen with your significant other.
It’ll give you a good environment to work together towards a common goal — making a good meal. Things can get tense in the kitchen, but that’s the whole point — you’ll learn from it and when something more serious than overcooked lasagna happens, you’ll have the tools to handle it.
Plus it’s fun.
Communicate. Marriage isn’t easy, especially when you’re talking about money. But even if none of the other stuff I’ve mentioned clicks with you, then you should at least take one thing with you from this post: communication is key.
You might not track your money or save anything or cook together. But you better communicate or else your marriage is going to be a train wreck.
‘Til death. I’ve been married for just under two years, but I can still remember what it was like to deal with money on my own: You think you have all the answers and you treat everything the way a dictator would. You’re never wrong and everyone else sucks.
Marriage has introduced democracy into my decision making and I’m grateful for it. It’s made me smarter, wiser, and less of a jerk.
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I disagree that marriage is necessary to learn these lessons. I’ve been unmarried but in a steady relationship for about 7 years now, and I learn most of the same.
We’re both employed though, at jobs that pay comprably, so there’s a lot less “we” about the money than indicated here. I think it depends (to answer JD) on how much each of you earn, and if there is a breadwinner. If there is just one breadwinner, it is “our” money for sure, otherwise the lower/non-earner will earn the resentment of the high earner.
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I really like seeing posts about money and relationships, whether those relationships are romantic or familial. So much of the way we relate to money is emotional, so when money and relationships collide, it’s fertile ground for conflict and discussion.
Keep ‘em coming!
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I don’t want to be a dick, but the line “I’ve been married for just under two years” kind of undermines everything else that’s said. Maybe this stuff works and helps solidify a marriage, and maybe in another few years they’ll get divorced because of money. I’d much rather hear from a couple who have been married for 20 years and lived through various life changes like having kids, buying a house, dealing with job loss or changing careers. That would give me more confidence that the advice actually works.
Also, the first and last points are potentially dangerous in the event of divorce. There was an article just a little while ago about what happens to women who were completely dependent on their husbands after the marriage fails. Yes, you want to make decisions as a couple and think of yourselves as a team, but there has to be a balance between hoping for the best and planning for the worst. If the husband has a good corporate pension, then they should put more of their extra retirement savings in the wife’s name. “Til Death” is a nice goal but it is far from a given. If you only prepare for the best-case scenario, you haven’t really prepared at all.
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JD I disagree with you and which is why I never understand couples who have separate finances. It just seems to me if you’re always separately accounting for each person’s contribution to a meal, rent, vacation etc, it really takes away from the ‘jointness’ of a couple’s present and future (for instance each individual doing their own retirement planning). And how do you account for a situation where one spouse makes significantly more than the other spouse – does their share of the expenditures increase just because they make more? That doesn’t seem “fair.”
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I agree. I’m one of those people that believe in separate financies. Everyone needs a little mad money!
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JD I’m w/Shannon #4 on this one. I remember when my husband and I moved in together. I had furniture, he did not – and, in the beginning of our marriage, I made money and he did not. One day he asked if I’d rather use the top set of drawers in my bureau or the bottom set. Share my drawer space??? How dare he? It was one of the toughest transitions into marriage that I encountered.
Silly as it sounds, sharing drawer space in my bureau was a metaphor for sharing finances. Once I got past the idea of “my” stuff vs. “his” stuff, everything became a lot easier, and I think it set a strong foundation for the trust we share with each other (17 years later!). I know other married folks manage things separately, and Husband and I each have our own areas where we might spend a little money for ourselves. However, I think if you can ease your brain around the idea of shared finances, shared property and shared planning, it makes life much simpler.
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I think that there is some truth to there not being an “I” in marriage as far as money goes. You may have separate accounts, but if your spouse got laid off, and couldn’t pay his share of the rent, would you kick him out and have him live in a box on the streets? If your spouse got a huge bonus, and wanted to use it to take a dream vacation, would you be okay if she didn’t buy you a plane ticket when you couldn’t afford to buy your own? If one spouse is a huge saver and the other is a huge spender, when retirement happens, will one really be moving to a luxury condo in Florida while the other is eating Alpo? If you are married, even with joint accounts, what you do with your money will affect the other spouse.
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There certainly is room for “I” in marriage, and I also agree that it is good to each have money to draw on in a personal account.
However, wouldn’t retirement be difficult without joint finances? I can easily see a situation where one person has saved significantly more than the other and there is resentment in retirement because one person is living on the other person’s savings.
Keeping finances separate seems to me like planning to fail. Yes it makes it easier when a couple separates, but since when has that been a goal in a marriage?
In the end though, I suppose you do whatever works for you (unless there have been studies on divorce rates among couples that keep joint/separate finances).
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My wife’s an at-home mom. If there was an “I” in our marriage, she’d be SOL (strictly outta luck). As it stands now, as we approach our Seven Year Itch anniversary in May, she manages our food, entertainment and clothing budget using a Dave Ramsey style envelop system. This way, we can easily track how much we’re spending in those departments and she doesn’t need my “approval/concurrence” to spend as she sees fit. I pay the bills for utilities, mortgage, and other regular monthly expenses, because these are routine things that I can basically predict every month. At the end of each month, we have a little left over after bills, retirement, kids’ college, etc have been paid; so we decide together how we want to have fun with that money.
My wife and I truly couldn’t function well with separate finances. I doubt our marriage would have lasted this long under those conditions. And as it is now, we fight a heck of a lot less about money than most of our peers who do things differently.
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I agree with #2Cely about seeing more posts about money and relationships, which I find very useful. Maybe you can feature more guest posts on this issue, I wouldn’t be turned off by that as much as I am by ‘normal’ guest posts.
I disagree with #3Aleks though. At first I thought “yeah, what does this guy know”. But being close to getting married myself, I realized that he might have a different perspective, since he went through this process more recently, than say someone who transitioned 10 or 20 years ago.
I think thoughts on this issue from the entire gradient from engaged to retired could be valuable, in their own ways.
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I agree with several of the posts above. JD, you may think there is a lot of “I” because you and Kris have seperate accounts BUT two “I”‘s cannot function for long in a marriage.
If Kris has expensive surgery that drains “her” account are “you” going to leave her out in the cold? I would hope not. Same goes for any of the type of unexpected debt or even the possibility of a layoff.
In our household, “I” handle all the finances, so I could take credit for the accounts being mine although it is technically “ours.” My wife just prefers less responsibility and thus does not want to deal with financial matters. I make sure I keep her in the loop and explain things to her incase tragedy were to strike. If my wife needs cash or she wants information, I do not withhold it from her if we have it.
I know you and your wife favor each other JD. It could be you two have seperate accounts because it provides the appearance of financial independence but you are not truly independent from each other. I consider the lack of independence (having a mate) a wonderful joy. Signed, a man nearing his 10th wedding anniversary.
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On an additional note: I do agree with the uniqueness in talents and abilities that a spouse brings to the marriage. Hopefully, the goal of those talents are to better then marriage (we).
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My husband and I became a set when we married. For financial stuff, it’s “our” finances. We each get our own “fun” money but everything else is joint. We come to mutual decisions and compromises, but it’s still “our” system.
For friends, hobbies, personal values, etc, it’s individual (we do have some of the same friends, hobbies, and personal values but you get the point). For money, it’s a joint thing or we’d go nuts trying to split everything down the middle.
If we ever get a divorce, we’ll worry about a split then. As of now, we plan for a life-long marriage…that means joint finances for us.
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I liked the recent article by JD on factors to consider when thinking about merging (or not merging) accounts so much better than this one. It was really thoughtful and I loved how it got into the different aspects of two people’s union that might make one system better than the other. Not only is there not a one-size-fits-all, but there are suggestions on what aspects help for a better fit. Very thought provoking. And it totally made sense, if you both have about equivalent separate incomes, different money styles, and are both ok handling finances, why not have yours, mine, and ours? If you have a SAHP situation, obviously that doesn’t make as much sense.
This article just doesn’t have any interesting thought provoking information, doesn’t seem well researched… says less than the Dave Ramsey lecture on relationships on the same theme…It seems like an article I’d be more likely to see at TSD instead of GRS. I’d rather have just had the one interesting book review article today. Zero desire to read this guy’s blog.
I’m all for more articles on relationships and money, but this one isn’t up to GRS standards, IMO.
When do we get to read a Tyler K reader article? I’m totally looking forward to that.
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JD you are my hero and I 100% agree with you.
The folks who hate separate finances seem to be strangers to the concept of sharing and compromise. You can’t buy groceries without joint finances?? We don’t divide everything up like roommates! If he loses his job I can support us – though he would have to give up some things, same as in any relationship where one person has greater “wants” than the other. We have a balance that works for us and it HAPPENS to involve separate finances. Enough with the judgement already.
I will also add, in our case there is no “our” retirement. He is 16 years older than me and has a decent chance of being dead before I reach retirement age. Therefore I have to plan on supporting myself till the age of at least 95, based on family history. Not to mention, since he has no savings, I have to plan on supporting him should he have to stop working. This is (part of) why we have separate finances: he would be appalled by how much I am saving, since he thinks he will die young and quickly. Fortunately he is worth more to me than money.
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Having only been married for a year, but living together and sharing expenses for three, I’m closer in circumstances to the writer. After we were married, my husband and I did create a joint checking account, as well as a joint savings account. We planned out our monthly budget for bills, and deposit money into the checking account on a monthly basis to cover those needs. We also both make monthly contributions to our joint savings account because we’re saving for a house.
Having said that, we both still have our own personal checking and savings accounts, retirement funds and I have my own 401(b).
I think the key to maintaining an “I” financially in a relationship is having a realistic budget. Our budget covers entertainment expenses such as movies, or dining out, so we are paying that together. If he wants to buy a video game, and I need to pay library fines on books I’ve checked out, then that comes from our personal accounts, to me its not fair for either of us to pay for something together than only one of us uses. This also reduces random arguments about money in my opinion, because no one is looking at the monthly statement and wondering why I bought yet another pair of shoes, or asking if he really needed that new gaming mouse.
It also means, that when we do go into larger purchases (furniture, computers, etc.,) we’re both on board with the expense, and can stick to a budget we both can agree on.
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“Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.”
No kidding. Now all I have to do is find Mr. Wonderful. Suggestions?
On a more serious note (although I’m serious about the above too), when the shared cost/shared support mechanism kicks in, it can be incredibly beneficial to both parties. However, that is not something I hear a lot about (excluding this site– where J.D. has made it a point of discussion in various posts).
As a single person, I can do much for my own betterment, but in a way, that can only go so far. On the other hand, I am aware and have seen enough to know that sometimes the shared expenses of marriage or a longterm relationship are not always the stuff of dreams.
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I don’t usually comment, but a few things strike me here — 1) someone with 2 years marrige experience certainly has something to offer someone who is engaged or newlywed. I agree a different perspective could be gained from someone who has been married for 20 years, but that doesn’t belittle what the poster writes. My husband came a long way financially in our first 2 years and I wish someone had told me what I know now many years earlier.
2) Just because you have combined finances doesn’t mean you can’t have mad money, it just needs to be budgeted for and equal — ie. just because you make $10k more/year doesn’t mean you get that much extra spending money and the bills are split 50/50.
I think separate finances can work for some couples, but in a lot of cases it causes more trouble than it avoids. I wouldn’t want to spend the time figuing out who paid what half of which bill and who owes who what. As far as I’m concerned my husband and I have different strengths and combining everything allows us to reap the benefits of both.
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We’ve been married 20 years and have ALWAYS merged everything. We’ve been through some very rough times together, including having to pawn her deceased mother’s jewelry just to have gas money to drive home. We sold my antique Martin guitar that was a gift from my parents just to have enough money to pay our deposit on an apartment.
I’m a proponent of merging your money. It all depends on your commitment to each other. If we had done otherwise, I think we would have regretted it.
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I’m with Aleks (comment #3). While this article is nice and all in theory, there’s just no experience to back it. Everyone knows the divorce rate is around 50%. Many couples do manage to make it for 2 years but end up failing a few years later. It’s so much rarer to find a couple that’s been married for 20 years or more. I’d MUCH rather hear from someone who has been successfully married for at least 20 years and see how they’ve handled issues like money in the marriage.
Hey Ron, (comment #16), why don’t YOU write an article?
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I think some people deliberately misconstrue when JD writes about his and Kris’ separate finances. As Ely says, just because you have separate finances (and typically, this just means you each have your own bank accounts; it doesn’t mean you’re like Tim Burton and Helena Bonham Carter, living next door to each other in separate houses) doesn’t mean you divide everything up obsessively as if you’re roommates who don’t like each other.
Mates, whether married or not, are a team and work things out accordingly. Someone is ALWAYS contributing more financially, and someone is ALWAYS contributing more in other ways. These roles can change a lot over the course of a relationship.
The whole notion of “two become one” is sentimental nonsense. There are still two people (at least) in any relationship, and their individual wants, needs, priorities, goals etc are going to change over time just as the *partnership’s* wants (etc) will change over time. Those who want to succeed as Partners have to respect each other as Individuals.
Moreover, it is statistically unlikely that both people in a relationship, even one that lasts “til death,” will die at the exact same moment. One will be left behind to have a financial life of his/her own, and had better have the tools to manage it. That’s where communication and planning really come into play. You can’t just let things happen.
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JD, I do not understand why you disagree so strongly with WC’s first point. He’s not saying you are no longer two individuals with different skills and minds, he’s saying that you are now a team and things like retirement and saving for houses etc should be shared goals.
Take your situation with your separate finances, where Kris was saving so much of her money when you were heavily in debt. What was she going to do when you got to retirement age and you didn’t have enough? Say “sorry, I’m set” and leave you to stew? What would you do now if she lost her job and couldn’t work again? That’s not a team, that’s two individuals who happen to have cohabited.
I don’t say that all couples must share their finances at all, and neither is WC. Just that there is joint responsibility and you are a team when it comes to your future. I think you’ve really missed his point.
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“Falling in love is good for the budget.”
Not necessarily. When you’re single and in the mood to go catch a movie, you pay the price of one ticket. Going to the movies as a couple doubles that cost, while you might not have double the income.
You’re sharing expenses such as utilities, but you can get that same effect from a roommate.
Maybe you go out less if you’re a couple. Or maybe it’s a huge source of “peer pressure” to spend if your partner loves to shop.
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I agree about the targeted savings. I read Ramit’s post about it and at first thought it was a great idea. However, as I got ready to actually do it, I thought what’s the point exactly?? I think much of the advice is really only for people who have difficulty saving. If you are a skilled saver, then it really is just one pot of money at the end of the month.
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Most of the comments seem to be about savings and earnings. But what about debt? If you get married, and your partner runs up $10K of credit card debt (known to you or not), then dies, you are responsible for that debt, correct?
It seems like there are plenty of stories about hidden debts in marriages. How scary to only learn of that debt when your spouse dies unexpectedly. No matter how much you keep finances separate, in some ways (beyond your control) they are merged.
(Correct me if I’m wrong on that — maybe it’s a state-by-state law?)
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JD, I definitely agree with you on this one!
When my husband and I were married, we made the decision to keep our checking account separate. I was – and still am! – absolutely taken aback at the dissaproval and outright venom we recieved from folks who had decided to merge finances!
Many folks (I assume they were well-meaning) told us that our decision not to merge all of our accounts was a reflection of our lack of commitment to each other, a lack of trust, and our selfishness, and was a sign that the relationship would never work out. All this can be deduced from one dividing line for the cash?!
I DO believe that there is room for “I” in a marriage. I just think that the line is different for different people. My husband and I both work, so it’s easy to keep different accounts. We’ve divided up bills between us, and we alternate picking up the tab at the grocery and pet food stores.
Keeping our day-to-day monies separate makes it easier to track funds (I never have to worry that he wrote a check and forgot to tell me, for example).
Of COURSE there is no question one of us would support the other if something happened, and I think it’s downright silly that some commenters would question a couple’s commitment to their mutual support based on the dividing line for a few dollars. Would my spouse and I consider onsolidating accounts if one of us could not/chose not to work for an extended period? Sure! It is a matter of what money management style is easy to use, NOT a matter of how much one is committed to the other.
Incidentally, we’ve found that it’s a fabulous way to treat each other, too. Buying gifts to each other somehow seems more special when we each spend our own money on them (we bought each other’s wedding rings out of our own accounts, for example).
I love being able to choose to gift my husband with things I buy myself. I love making purchases without any question that I’m dipping into money he may have earmarked for another purpose. And I love the expression on his face when I insist on picking up the tab at dinner! =)
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I have to add I agree with JD about separate accounts. Just because you have your own accounts doesn’t mean you consider things financially separate. It’s just about day to day management. All the money is in the same overall pool, for both of us to eventually retire on. Of course we would take care of each other if the other couldn’t work.
But if you have different money management styles, sharing accounts could drive you both crazy. I don’t see anyone ever arguing about having money split for other reasons – ie. checking account, savings account, some CDs, some mutuals, some stocks, etc. Investments split between high and low risk. This is just common sense. But if one spouse prefers low risk investments and the other higher so they keep things separate isn’t this the same idea?
If one person is uncomfortable with their hard earned money going in the stock market, should they be forced into it, because their accounts are all “joint” and the money-manager spouse wants to do it that way.
Personally, my husband and I are both excellent savers but as far as management and investing I track and fiddle all the time and he just wants to buy CDs once a year. And occasionally move money from a checking to a savings account. It is OUR money. We don’t worry about exactly who’s paying for what as whatever we don’t spend we’ll both have to use later. But I couldn’t stand having to consult with him every time I want to move a bit of money around. And it would drive him crazy as well.
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I do something similar to target savings, but with a different idea. Yeah, it’s all money but if the furnace goes out I am going to start cutting back on other expenses until the balance is back up. And how much am I spending on clothes anyway? I have buckets of money with different labels to keep tabs on individual costs (like clothing) as well as keep from worrying about covering every expense when everything hits me at once.
I don’t think the comments about “there is no ‘I’” is intended as not having ANY autonomy or personal money, but as another poster said, your financial lives are intertwined and you need to understand that and plan accordingly.
I had to laugh at the ‘economy of shared living’ because of how many penny-pinchers I’ve met who married spend thrifts and wind up with no money. Not to mention the heck divorce plays on the finances.
As an aside: to those who quote the ’50%’ number with regard to divorce, it isn’t that 50% of people get divorced, it is 50% of marriages that end in divorce. It doesn’t seem like much, but anyone who has been divorced and remarried (especially multiple times) skews that statistic. The percentage of people who have been divorced is necessarily lower.
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Why does saying there is no “I” in marriage mean you cannot have separate accounts? The author even stated that in addition to their joint account, the couple has separate bank accounts! There is a difference between having separate accounts with full disclosure and discussion about where the family money goes (a team), and having separate accounts so you can have hidden debt or wealth (“I”). There is a difference in having joint accounts because you have shared goals (“team”), and having joint accounts because one person is taking and controlling all the money (“I”). Being a team means you do the best for the team, not for yourself–there is no I in team. In a properly functioning team (and often this is true of a loving, healthy marriage), doing what is best for the team is in the end what was best for you. Having separate accounts may be best for some marriages, having fully joint accounts may be best for some marriages. Some have joint and personal accounts. But all can benefit from the mindset that there is no “I” in team, and therefore none in marriage.
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@Cely (#22):
I’m no attorney, but the only time that Person A’s debts carry to Person B after Person A’s death is when Person B is a co-signer on that debt. IMHO, it’s a bad idea to cosign on a debt for anyone, even a spouse. My wife has authorization to use my credit card, but is not a cosigner of the card (there is a difference – google it). As an authorized user, she has her own card with my card number and can use it freely, but she is not liable for repayment if I croak unexpectedly. The credit card company could try to come after her for it, but they have no legal leg to stand on.
Debts to a person are paid at death by that person’s estate. If insuffient funds exist in the estate to make good for the debt, then the debtors don’t get to collect.
In most cases, the big thing that muddies the waters is a home mortgage with both spouses being party to the loan. I think the issue of how to apply the house to the estate is a state-by-state one. But not really sure. That’s why we keep enough life insurance to cover our mortgage balance plus some.
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Good article about getting finances together and how to compromise, for those about to get married.
I’d add, though, 16+ years later, that talking about life goals is the most important thing a couple can do before and during a marriage. The rest of the stuff is how to get there (or a close-enough approximation).
Re: JD’s comment — there is definitely a place for “I”s in our household. However, with 2 kids and 16-years’ accumulation of shared assets (married and living in 2 community property states!), there’s a lot more “we” in most conversations than “I”. JD and Kris live much like DH and I did when we were first married and living as “independent married people”, and could keep a lot of time and money separated. We are extremely interdependent now!
Regarding an earlier comment: Being 7 years younger than DH and living a much healthier lifestyle, I do think I’ll end up on my own for many years, but I hope there will be a lot of time between now and then, so we still generally think in terms of “our” best interest, with some thought to after “us”.
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This topic has been beat to death on every blog I can think of. To me it comes down to whether you think of marriage as a spiritual connection – a joining of two at all levels of intimacy – or a civil union of two individuals. If the latter (which is most people), by all means maintain your separate finances and protect yourselves from each other, because there is a high probability you will probably need that protection when the relationship founders. If the former, challenge yourselves to operate as a single financial entity.
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Surprise surprise, everyone thinks the way finances are managed in THEIR marriage is the best way! I do too, of course, and I think my roast potato technique is top notch too but none of you are married to me so that’s okay. I would reinforce the points above that separate chequing accounts are more of a day to day management thang, and not about splitting every last little expense to the dollar nor hiding paystubs under the mattress. And that there are about a zillion ways of having separate finances. Not that any of us are going to persuade the other side anyway.
(And entertainingly, there’s always someone who states that those with separate finances lack the same level of commitment *rolls eyes* – literally in this comment thread’s case!)
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I feel like I think about this subject so much differently than a lot of the people here. We’re married. We’re family. We share everything. The only things that are “mine” or “hers” are personal things that don’t share well. Our clothes are each of ours. The surfboards are mine, she’d never use them. The knitting stuff is hers, I’ll never use it. But if one or the other of us asked? Of course we’d each share.
But then, I’m currently the sole breadwinner in our family, and I have no resentment about that. I don’t mind that I spend a portion of “my” income on my wife. I really don’t get the viewpoint that expects me to feel that way. The goal here is to lead the sort of lifestyle we want. I’m not going to quit my job regardless, so why wouldn’t I support my wife if I make enough to do so? She likes the freedom she has not needing to work, why would I resent helping to give her that opportunity?
People get *so* attached to their stuff (or their money, but really, the two are interchangeable), they’re so protective of it. Sometimes I feel like I’m in the minority for being more attached to my wife than my things or my bank account. Maybe it’s a product of my situation, but if I can’t buy a new say, camera, cause my wife needs something, I’ll happily wait a while for the camera knowing that my wife is taken care of in the meantime. If we refer back to J.D.s “battle against stuff,” it looks to me like this is a battle that most people are losing, even if they really want to look like they’re winning. They just can’t knock “stuff” down a level or two in importance, it sits way up there at the top of their priorities, such that many won’t even share it with their spouses.
@Nicole (#14): (I hope J.D. doesn’t mind if I share this) March 14th, I believe. It’s probably nothing like what you’ll be expecting, though.
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This was a horrible post, just awful. The only part I can even agree with this guy on is when he says “it is our retirement”. Everything else seems like trite bits of advice he’s read in Cosmo or something. Blech!
I would like to read a good post about getting a non-saver to think about retirement. My husband won’t save a penny because his company no longer matches in a 401K. I have a ROTH, but I am thinking about long term and wondering what will happen if only I have saved? Any suggestions would be helpful but an actual post would be great!
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JD, I think the first point about there being no “I” is correct when it comes to money.
I know of two couples who think that there is an “I” when it comes to money and both of their marriages are train wrecks. In both of these relationships, there is disparate earnings. But I imagine that this kind of “what I earn is mine” attitude would be just as toxic even if a couple is earning high incomes at about the same level; it would just take longer to notice what a problem it is (it would come up during major purchases or hard economic times).
Chickybeth, what will happen if only you save is that you and your husband will only have that money when you retire (and SSI). If you think you will need more, then put more in your ROTH. Personally, if my employer didn’t match, I wouldn’t put money in my 401k either, I’d get a ROTH!
I think guiness has an excellent point about how each marriage is different. When I found my husband, it was important to me to know if he was a saver, and what kind of things he spent money on. That isn’t very romantic, and it seems oversimplified, but it’s made our marriage so much easier, the fact that we both tend to spend money on the same kinds of “toys” and not care so much about other kinds of expensive “toys.”
I share Tyler’s situation and attitude. The income I bring home is 100% ours. If either of us wants something, we buy it. If we can’t afford it, we save for it. Period.
@Aleks, it can be dangerous to be completely reliant on someone for your income if they do not treat you as an equal. If the income earner treats the stay-at-home spouse as an equal, then the non-earning spouse should be co-owner of all their assets, first of all. Secondly, those situations are exactly what alimony is meant for: when one spouse has foregone a career to be the at-home support system for the other spouse for years, they are entitled to a percentage of the income after a divorce. On the other hand, my best friend’s husband cleaned out their joint account and left her after 7 years of marriage, and they didn’t own any assets together or have any kids. There wasn’t anything she could do about it. Makes a pre-nup seem like a good idea. If both parties are cool with the whole “ours” thing, then signing a 50-50 pre-nup shouldn’t be a problem for either of them. But nobody who’s about to get married does that!
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To Mike #30 (Re #25): The law is state-by-state but in Michigan (and California and other “community property” states) married persons are jointly liable for all debt incurred during the marriage.
Illinois has this law: “The Illinois Family Expense Act makes spouses jointly liable for “the expenses of the family and of the education of the children.” The law presumes that both spouses agree to pay for family expenses.”
If you are curious, just look up the law in your own state, but assume what you don’t know about your partner can potentially harm you.
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Sixteen years ago when we got married, our finances went like this: We both had full-time jobs and joint accounts, he controlled all of the finances and paid all of the bills. I was able to shop for professional clothing without any problems.
After having children, it is now like this: He works 2 jobs,I work part-time so I could watch the kids without putting them in daycare, he controls all of the finances and pays all of the bills, we have joint accounts and separate accounts.
Why the changes? Well, once the kids came and the expenses grew, I was became a SAHM. But I wanted to work a little for extra income (and social security benefits!).I started working part-time and still was able to care for the childen. My small job can pay for food, holiday/birthday items, etc. His separate account is there as a way to save more money for other expenses/investments. In the end, all money for retirement will mostly come from his working so much, but he said he wanted me to take care of the family and my health ( I’m diabetic).
It’s not a perfect system by any means. It took alot of trial/error and layoffs for us to come to this arrangement!
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I totally agree that saving is still saving no matter what. The sub-saving account method is helpful for me to keep track of where money goes to and I know exactly if I’m on track to have enough for my savings goals. Of course I could do it with a spreadsheet but I don’t want to think about that. And really, it’s mostly about psychology, if you have a lump sum of money that’s not really specified for a purpose, you’d tend to spend more of it.
I love the idea about falling in love and sharing expenses with your significant other. I’m not married but I can certainly see the benefits of a marriage. A great post WC!
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I think it’s different for every family. Right now, since my husband is deployed, I manage all the money. (I’ll probably do it when I’m deployed too, since my husband isn’t that great at managing money.) He’s got a “mad money” account and if he spends that money on bonbons and bourbon, I don’t care. So, in that regard, we’re both together and apart. *shrug* What’s most important is that each family/couple/whatever finds what works for them.
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I’m defintiely in the “our” money camp. However, some ‘fun money’ for each partner can certainly make the machine move more smoothly. Communication is defintely key issue. Decisions that are made together seldom come back to hurt the relationship.
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#3 @Aleks, I hear what you are saying. 2 years with no kids and the newness still probably helps quite a bit.
I would disagree that there is no “I” in marriage but when it comes to finances, I would agree.
My wife and I have been together for nearly 19 years. I don’t think we are the poster children for great financial communication but we got to a system that has produced great results. One thing I can tell you is that if you are good about making and saving money, and living below your means, there really isn’t much to talk about other than what house to buy, how the retirement funds are doing, and which colleges. My wife could care less if I used Mint, Excel, or Quicken (have used them all). She cares about the big picture: career progression, income progression, cash and stocks, and retirement.
One of the things that our priest said to us on our wedding day is that a marriage is almost never 50/50. Most of the time one person in the marriage has to do more at any given time. Sometimes you have to be Superman for a while and carry the load. If you feel resentment for carrying 80% for a while, you’ve missed the spirit of marriage.
Don’t expect things to be 50/50 when it comes to finances and don’t expect it always to be a nice even compromise. There are things in marriage that one person will bang the table for and get. For me, it was getting rid of all debt and saving money from the day we got together. For my wife it was decisions about school for the kids that she felt adamant about. These weren’t “let’s split the difference” types of conclusions. We had the big arguments but at the end of the day, decision made, and we moved on.
In terms of money, I can’t remember a time where I ever thought I had separate money, not since the day we started living together. We naturally had separate retirement accounts, but everything else is joint. Maybe I am old school, but I don’t get the separate accounts thing for married people. I guess if you wanted to have a little account for buying stuff you want. Right now I am working with someone that has gotten bitten by separate accounts. He finally merged accounts and found out that his wife was spending $80,000 a year on clothing! Seriously. I’d doubt if my wife has spent that much in 19 years. I couldn’t figure out how two people making $350,000 couldn’t have a penny in savings but that made it pretty clear. That’s an example of why I don’t like separate accounts. Joint accounts make the conversations happen quicker.
Funny thing about the 2 year comments. We are going on 19 years this year and I still think that we are newbies! I always think of the people that are worth listening to have 35 or 40 years of marriage experience. Hope this is useful to those that wanted to hear more experience.
One last point: On cooking together. My wife hates to cook, I love it. I cook for her and I am happy to do it. I’ll cook a feast for everybody any time I can. I tried to make it more equal one time and the kids started to complain about the food! Same thing when daddy tries to fold the laundry, nobody is happy.
Don’t try to make everything equal, it’s never 50/50.
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I have been married for 34 years to a wonderful man who sees absolutely no relationship between money and bills. It took me two years to realize this, and at that point I took over our finances pretty much completely. (I come from a family of economists.) As long as he has money for coffee, books, and music, he is happy. This has been quite a burden for me, but also easier in some ways. I have tried over the years to get him to pay some attention to our finances, but on two occasions he has literally gone to sleep in his chair rather than think about them.
Anyhow, last month I got him to look at all my lovely spreadsheets again — not an easy job — and at the end showed him a bar graph that I had set up showing when the car, house, one cc, and various education loans would be paid off and when, as a result, he could retire. Suddenly, great interest on his part! He asked me to show it to him again next month when I have paid the bills once more! I have always known that he is an extremely visual person, but if I had realized that all it took was a bar graph to get him to understand what was going on, I would have shown it to him a lot sooner.
Which proves that even after all this time, marriage can be surprising.
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I have worked with couples around money issues and a common problem is they have a narrow view of spending, earning and saving. This easily leads to problems discussing finances. I lead them to a bigger vision that they both share- a house, a baby, a college education, an early retirement. When there are shared goals with a passion to make it happen– all of a sudden saving and discussing finances becomes easy.
Fern Alix LaRocca CFP®
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I have to side with the other people who are saying that marriage requires shared finances. Sure, each individual should have their “fun money,” but those are just individual categories in a larger financial plan (unless you got a prenup).
Marriage is communism. If you want to divorce yourself from Mother Russia, the judge isn’t going to care when you say “This military base is in my territory. This oilfield is also in my territory.” He’s not going to care whose bank account is in whose name. He’s not going to care whose name the house is in or whose name is on the Ferrari (unless you got a prenup).
Anything obtained during the marriage is part of the marital estate. Except in increasingly uncommon circumstances, a court will split the marital estate fifty fifty in the event of divorce. So all of this planning for the worst silliness doesn’t hold water (unless you got a prenup).
If you want to have separate finances and pretend you’re not married… fine, just don’t get married. Once you do get married, the law will treat you as partners, whether you like it or not. (Unless you got a prenup… by the way, do you really want to ask the love of your life to sign a prenup? I can see if you got taken to the cleaners by your last spouse and now you’re marrying someone half your age who has certain physical attributes that tend to affect your judgment, but otherwise?)
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I completely agree with #15 (Ely). And #32 (Mr. ToughMoneyLove), what a load of crap! Sheesh.
I can’t imagine why anyone would think that separate accounts means splitting everything right down the middle, as someone else said, “like roommates who don’t like each other.”
I wouldn’t mind having a joint account for some things, because my (already joint, but he’s never used it, just opened it for me) bank account is no-fee. However, he likes that he can go to an actual branch with his bank (I can’t). But having separate accounts works for us. I manage the money anyway, even his account.
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@Martin (#45):
Why do you assume that couples who keep separate bank accounts are “planning for the worst,” or that we don’t realize that marital assets are split 50/50 in the event of a divorce? Sometimes that’s just the way things work out. Not everything has to be that big of a deal. Sheesh.
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I can’t believe I just got to this post in my reader! This is right up my alley as a marriage blogger and lover of all things personal finance. I have written a lot about these issues and lived even more in our nine years of marriage.
I have to disagree with JD on the “separation of finances” issue. I believe strongly that marriage does mean that you become one in a spiritual sense, and I think this also applies to the way finances are handled.
When you agree to spend your life with someone (your WHOLE life), a merging of finances should be part of the commitment. It’s your marriage, your family and your money…together. Do you try to separate your children and claim that they only belong to one of you?
They are a product of your marriage and they belong to both of you because they came from both of you. Your children couldn’t exist without your oneness.
I couldn’t make a living the specific way I do without my wife’s support and vice versa. The finances in our household exist as a product of the commitment we’ve made to each other. There is no mine and hers. It’s simply “ours” and I really do feel that this is the healthiest way to handle family finances.
That said, I’ve written about the issue of separate or joint bank accounts, and I definitely see both sides of that issue. However, at the end of the day, the family’s overall finances should be treated as a family issue and not an individual decision.
Just my thoughts of course.
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I’m in the “our money” camp, but I don’t think that has to mean you have to have a joint account. In the UK, linking with another person financially with a joint bank account or similar means that their finances will influence your credit score, so plenty of couples here where one partner has a bad score and one partner has a good score will keep separate bank accounts. However, I think there has to be a mentality of shared goals and indeed of a shared pot of money for the family (wherever that money happens to reside)- otherwise you get situations like described above, where one partner is left out in the cold. (I also think this is why it’s important to marry someone who can be on the same page as you about money issues..it makes things a lot easier.)
I also think that the fact that the author of this post has only been married for ~2 years doesn’t negate his experience- I’ve been married for about the same amount of time (plus we lived together before that) and have learned tons about jointly managing money in the last few years. Sure our perspective will change as we get older and go through more of life together, but I like to think that we’re laying the foundation now and that’s worthwhile.
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“Falling in love is good for the budget. It’s called economies of shared living, and it means you’ll spend less money when you split the cost with another person.”
Yeah, but only if you have 2 incomes. I’m the breadwinner, dh is SAHD/student and takes care of our dd. On my own, I would be happy in a studio, using public transport. With dh and dd we need a 2br apartment and a car. On my own, I would not ‘need’ cable tv, ipod, iphone, meat, chips, soda, which dh cannot live without
Together, we’re costing more than twice me-alone.
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