This guest post from Maria is part of the new “reader stories” feature here at Get Rich Slowly. Some reader stories contain general “how I did X” advice, and others will be examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success — or failure. This story very much reminds me of the book for unmarried couples I reviewed earlier this week.
This is a story about a relationship between two people and some money.
Part 1
Boy meets girl. Boy moves in with girl. Household expenses are split and all seems well. Years pass. Boy wants to change cities for professional reasons. Girl wants to finish grad school. They make a deal: They’ll move when the degree is finished.
Warning signs: She is paying a greater share as the years go by and her career advances. He doesn’t take any concrete steps toward advancing his own career. He has sold his car ‘to save money’ and relies on her to drop him at the train station for his job. He has no real friends and his ‘project partners’ (in six years, there’s only one finished project) all seem to be women. And then:
Part 2
The degree is finished and true to the deal, she starts organizing a move. She researches new jobs cross-country. She rents a truck, makes hotel reservations, and arranges for a friend to drive the car in caravan with them. Oh, by the way, she’ll pay the friend’s airfare home. She puts down the money on an apartment. She lands a job, but he says he needs some time off work to get things going. They make a new deal: She’ll cover the rent for a while so he can concentrate on jump-starting his career. Years pass. His career hasn’t started. The subject comes up fairly often, but she hates to fight.
Warning signs: By the end of three years, not only is she paying all living expenses, she’s giving him an allowance to cover his “career-building” expenses. He hasn’t held a job since the move. His ‘project partners’ still all seem to be women. He has built no social or professional network and does not participate in her social life. (This didn’t bother her much when she was in grad school, but life is different now.) She doesn’t really want to live alone, and she tells herself he isn’t costing her much more than it would cost to live alone; but their relationship has become that of roommates. And then:
Part 3
She takes up an activity she’s passionate about. He isn’t interested. She meets someone new and tells her roommate she wants to pursue the new relationship. He panics. He asks her to marry him. He argues. He threatens. He marches her into the bank and stands at her back while she takes cash advances on six credit cards, a total of $30,000. He deposits the money in his own account. She tells him that they can’t continue to live together, and she can’t afford to move because she doesn’t have the money for a deposit. He won’t move out. She starts spending most nights and weekends away.
Warning signs: The whole situation.
Part 4
After months of misery, she is able to finally get him out by renting a truck, packing it with almost all their possessions, and driving it to his sister’s home nearby. With the expenses of the move, her own living expenses, and the extortion debt, she is barely making ends meet. She has no savings and no assets. She talks things over with the new partner. They decide bankruptcy may be the best solution. She asks around and gets the name of a firm of attorneys.
Part 5
The attorneys hear the story, go through all the paperwork, and agree that going after the ex in court would be both expensive and unlikely to result in restitution. A bankruptcy petition is prepared and filed, at a cost of a few hundred dollars. She has to appear in court. She feels like an idiot, a failure, a disappointment to herself. The judge hears a brief statement of her reasons for the petition, nods, signs off. That’s all. Ten years later, the bankruptcy is off the credit report. Had she not filed, she would still be making payments on the debt.
Author’s note
This is a true story. I’ve heard similar stories from half a dozen women, and a couple of men, in my city. At least I never married him. At least I didn’t have to smuggle my belongings to my office and store them under my desk until I had all the essentials together, and leave for a new state from the office, like one of my friends did. At least I wasn’t that scared.
In hindsight, perhaps I should have either moved out immediately or had the bank call the police. But I didn’t want to feel responsible if he hurt himself, I surely didn’t want him to hurt anyone else, and his behavior was sufficiently frightening that I believed one of those outcomes was possible. So I bought him off.
What is the moral of this story?
Don’t cover expenses for another able-bodied adult without a contract, and don’t make financial deals that only favor one party.
Reminder: This is a story from one of your fellow readers. Please be nice. After nearly a decade of blogging, I have a thick skin, but it can be scary to put your story out in public for the first time. Remember that this guest author isn’t a professional writer, and is just learning about money like you are.
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Wow. I’ve got to agree with JD – I’m a little surprised at how blunt and insensitive some of the comments are. I think Maria recognizes she’s made some huge mistakes, I don’t think it was necessary to berate her over them. When you take a multi-year experience like that and distill it down to a few paragraphs, it becomes pretty easy to see where it came off the rails. But we all know that when you’re actually making the mistakes, it’s harder to see them.
I do sympathize with Maria. She was manipulated and taken advantage of. She trusted a partner and was betrayed. She’ll carry the scar of that experience for the rest of her life. Perhaps it will help better protect her from repeating the same mistakes. Or perhaps her new, jaded perspective will cause her to miss out on what would otherwise be rich, fulfilling relationships.
As a “cautionary tale,” I think there is more value in the comments than the story itself. The specific items I learned to be “cautious” of would be:
1. Be careful if you put yourself out there and write a guest post for a popular blog. People can be cruel when protected by the anonymizing veil of the Internet.
2. Never max out your credit cards and hand the cash over to your partner, for any reason.
3. Sloughing your mistakes off on society (via bankruptcy) will not instill the feelings of self-worth and success you need in order to effect long-term changes in your life.
4. If you keep making the same mistakes, you can’t expect a different outcome. Replacing a weak, manipulative decision-maker with a fresh, new one is not real personal growth. You’re still allowing someone else to direct your life.
As a side note, JD, I’m really enjoying these “Reader Stories.” It’s a fresh perspective on personal finance.
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That’s a perfect life lesson for people thinking about relationships. I would never want myself to be caught in her situation. Other than dating expenses, I don’t plan to contribute anything monetary in a relationship pre-marriage. I also don’t plan on marrying anyone without a prenup. I won’t let a bad mistake ruin my entire life.
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Thank you for sharing your story! All it takes is one person to read this and see themselves in the story. My mother left an abusive relationship after 25 years because she read an article about a man that killed his wife and children. She realized as she read the story that my father could do that to her. She developed a plan and left my father 2 weeks later.
Some of these comments seem to come from very close minded people. The world is a big placed, filled with billions of people and their stories. Just because you think you would have acted differently does not mean you would have. Never judge a person based on something you know nothing of. I thought GRS reader where better than these negative comments.
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Come on, jump into 2010. Marriage is useless, unless you’re a religious fanatic.
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El Zarcho hit it right on the head. Men need to start stepping up and acting like men, and women need to quit playing mommy for guys who won’t.
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Maria, thank you for your story. I can see how things spiraled out of control, and I’m sorry it happened to you. Maybe your post will serve as a wake-up call to someone else, and they will recognize the awful situation they are in.
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The real moral of the story is…
Listen to Dr. Laura.
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It’s horrible how manipulative people can sap us of every drop of emotional strength. These types are like poison to the soul. They just inherently know how to keep a significant other hostage. Extricating oneself from a relationship such as this often does result in violence of some sort so I don’t blame you, Maria, one bit for buying him off.
Only those people who have lived through something like this can understand it because the manipulation is so insidious and creeping. While the twisted party is busily scheming, planning and emotionally extorting, the other person is gradually, slowly becoming more and more emotionally ensnared as the years pass. You finally end up curled on the bathroom floor in the fetal position because the pressure of trying to manage someone who could have the potential to kill you – or to kill someone else in their rage sprung from inadequacy – is a very real proposition. Unless you’ve actually lived it and can relate to the gut wrenching emotions that come with ending a relationship with such a person, you cannot possibly know what it feels like to wake up one day and wonder how your life descended into such hell.
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I’m so sorry. This situation would suck for anybody (guy or girl). I’m glad you got out.
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Thank you for sharing your story, Maria.
It’s one thing to learn how to earn money. It’s another thing to learn what a healthy relationship is, and how to balance taking care of yourself with taking care of others. Sadly, I don’t think our society does a good job of this, and for many of us, myself included, we have to learn this the hard, painful way.
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I think the moral of this story is that in the ebb and flow of life it is critically important for all of us to know and listen to our own warning signs. Both men and women. One aspect of this story that I believe played a huge role in Maria staying as long as she did is that in our society from a very early age women are culturized to pursue a mate, to be desired by a mate, to have children etc. It can become a completely compelling goal. Women hear terms such as “advanced maternal age”, “biological clock is ticking”, etc. Don’t underestimate how this force pulls women to make decisions that leave others wondering. I don’t mean to suggest that this is only an issue for women, but understandly for biological reasons women are much more vulnerable to these influences.
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I guess I feel ambivelant about this post. I enjoy the reader generated stories, they are more “real” but maybe this was edited TOO much. We are going from step: boyfriend still no job, she is now paying 100% so he owes her mucho money at this point to step (no not kicking him out, no not demanding money back, no not talking to a friend for feedback on obviously strange situation) : she is at bank taking 30K in unsecured credit card loans to give to boyfriend???
I don’t want potential writers to be put off by negative comments, or worse whitewash or remove embarrassing information from stories, but I’m sure I’m not the only person to think: how did this happen? I guess we need to fill in the blanks and say that there was abuse going on that the poster did not want to divulge.
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I’m shocked at the people that see this as a “don’t cohabitate before marriage” story. If anything, it’s a lesson TO do so. If they had gotten married right away, she’d be paying him alimony.
~From a woman who understands “there but for the grace of God go I.” If I hadn’t gotten out of my emotionally and financially abusive relationship (thanks in VERY large part to a strong support group), I’d be on my third kid, living in Japan, without a college degree and utterly miserable.
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It seems that this may be an instance of Maria not knowing when to cut her losses.
As with any decision to invest in shares in a company, venture capital, or other risk
for financial gain, one can often get caught up in not wanting to get out of a relationship too early when things start turning negative- in hopes that giving the circumstances more time to grow and develop will at some point become profitable.
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This isn’t a message for or against living together before marriage. Though to try to clarify, from my understanding, the “live together” camp is saying it’s good they didn’t get married because she might not have been able to get out. But the “don’t live together” camp is saying, if she didn’t think she could marry him, she shouldn’t have lived with him. I think what they are going for is that she *must* have seen some problem in the relationship if, when she was willing to move cross-country for him, she *was not* willing to marry him. In that way, living together was worse for her – it showed that although she saw problems in the relationship and did not want to tie herself to him, she was still willing to live with him. Perhaps if she didn’t believe in living together before marriage, she could have seen the warning signs and gotten out.
Just saying… I think that’s what the pro-marriage, anti-living together people are saying, but I don’t think it’s really a part of this article at all.
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@JD – you hit a gold mine with these reader stories.
I’m not sure what to think about this one though. I realize when you’re in the situation, its hard to step back and analyze, but this went on at least 6 years? Then when you’re trying to break it off he wants another $30k cash?
Then all the debt is gone with a couple lawyers, a few signatures and a few hundred bucks? That just doesn’t seem right.
I agree with people above that either this was edited too much or the writer just didn’t want to delve back in to the emotional component of it all.
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Maria, thank you for sharing your story. I think this kind of relationship is so hard to handle — of course it doesn’t start out like this, and we put time and effort and money into our relationships, and we want to make them work! It’s hard to figure out how to get out of something like this unscathed.
I feel very lucky — I had a man I dated for 5 years (lived with for 3), and it was nowhere near this bad. But he wasn’t good at being an adult in the relationship, and this kind of thing is very hard to change. I was responsible for all the bills getting paid and keeping everything running in our home, and I’m sure I ended up with a lot of the debt (but I haven’t sat down and counted it, it wouldn’t get me anywhere). When I finished my degree, I left and he was supposed to follow when he finally finished his 2nd BFA (having done nothing productive with his first). I wasn’t surprised though when he had a new relationship a few weeks after I left (and wondered ever since if that relationship predated my departure).
I learned a lot about myself from that relationship, and I’m now married to a partner — he and I work hard together with our children, our home and our lives, and we’ve taken control of our debt. I’ve been with my husband nearly 12 years, and I’m sure a lot of what I learned in that earlier relationship has made our marriage the success it is today.
I hope you have the same!
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Thank you for sharing, Maria. I am in this situation now and I have no idea how to get out. I am a smart person with 4 degrees including a doctorate; I have a great job that I enjoy and am good at. BUT I got sucked into a terrible situation with a vampire who has drained me dry — not just financially but also emotionally, spiritually, physically… I have very low self-esteem, always have, and kind of just rode a tide until it was too late. It didn’t start out that way, believe me. You know the story about putting the frog in boiling water versus just raising the heat bit by bit? That is me. It happened so gradually and before I knew it it was too late. I have started drinking heavily to the point of blackouts every night — it seems to be the only way I can be around him is to be unconcsious. I know I need help. Now I have no energy for anything but work. He is like a two year old, tantrums, etc. When I make noises about him leaving or looking for work he is scary, talks about shooting himself, me, my parents. The police will do nothing.
I am at my wits end. Sometimes I feel like death would be easier. He has sucked the life and energy out of me.
Thanks for sharing, Maria. Maybe I can find some courage in it.
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wow, in one post, both judge judy and dr. laura have been mentioned, i’m definitely at my quota for hearing stuff i don’t like. it’s something quite hypocrtical about dr. laura demanding that women stay home while she’s a self reliant multi-millionaire with a flourishing career – ooops i’ve digressed.
as for the posters who wanted more details, i disagree, there is no need for this post to devolve into a soap opera. by keeping it linear and succinct the point gets across beautifully-the only drawback being is that this writing style lends itself to a math equation, hence people think they can just solve it. (carry the one, add the #4 and multiply seven and BAM! no one would have never gotten into this mess!!!?!!)
as for the anti-bankruptcy crowd, according to RK Hammer the credit card industry made $40.7B in 2007. i could really care less about maria filing for bankruptcy on $30K- how much did AIG, GM get, how much did Madoff and Enron swindle, of course this has no tax impact, whatevs. people always like to think everything in life can be viewed in the context of cause and effect – sometimes i think credit card companies raise rates because of the universal default rule or just to be completely contrite and arbitrary
for the i-woulda-did-this and i-would-did-that-crowd- great job of inserting your sensibilities into a situation you did not experience – what an amazing feat!? (insert sarcasm here, yep right here)
my apologies in advance, i think i’m feeling quite surly today, i’ve been up all night writing, gotta love grad school
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LMN – your post brought me to tears. Maria you should feel very very proud of how your story has touched LMN and all the other LMN who are quivering inside and too afraid to speak out, because self-righteous and judgmental people abound. No one ever knows how their life might inspire someone – be courageous and share! LMN I will not pretend to know what religious persuasion you are – but i am going to pray fervently for you right now, please don’t take your life, it might to feel valuable right now but it is and it will feel that way again.
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Maria – thank you so much for posting your story here. I can only imagine the turmoil living throughout it, as compared to it’s condensed version here. Please ignore all the negative comments and focus on the positive – you have definitely helped a lot of people (women and men) by telling your story. No, it’s not unique and there are people living in the same situation as you, but I promise you that someone has read this cautionary tale and has seen themselves in the same situation.
I think it took a lot of courage for you to tell your story here and kudos for JD for posting it. If you haven’t received any theraphy to deal with the personal situation, I would advise you too. Money can be earned, mental health is for life and sometimes a professional is the way to go. $30K+ is a very small price to pay to have your life and your identify back. You are worth more than the money, so don’t give it a second thought.
You have to do what you have to do. Easy to say but very hard to do in practise. Maria had to do what she had to do to get out of that situation and I, for one, applaud that she valued herself enough to do whatever she needed at that time.
Good luck in your future and don’t let one relationship sour your future chances at love again.
Karen
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My parents gave me some great advice as I was entering into adulthood. They told me “The only person you can depend on this world is yourself.” You can’t depend on anyone else to help pay your way or help support you. You need to be independent. Make sure you are smart with your money (don’t live beyond your means), get the best education you can afford, and work hard to get the things you want in life.
Sometimes people have to live through difficult situations and make mistakes before they learn something from it. Thank you for sharing this story so that others can learn not to make the same choices she made.
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I do not agree with all the posters who feel the need to lambast the author of this story. She puts herself in a vulnerable position and in this way gives a word of caution to all who are interested.
Maybe what she tells is should be familiar in terms of information, but knowing what should be done, and what is done is vastly different.
We all know we should exercise more, eat less and healthier, and spend less then we earn. So how come so many people are overweight, in debt etcetera?
Stop bashing the author. I think she is brave and to be admired for changing a bad situation and having the guts to share it with us.
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@ Kris #67 – did you know women are more likely than men to blame rape victims? So I’m not surprised by the gender trends here.
re: support system: my family & friends figured this guy out long before I did. I was 3000 miles away from my family and had no close friends due to Boy never wanting to do anything social with me … I just kept going home to him (idiot, me).
re: new partner: we are 8+ years married now, thanks.
re: “taking responsibility” – it WAS a bank robbery, but look who ended up with the money! Not me. I hung on for more than a year, trying to make the payments. He could have paid me back, if he had been decent. He wasn’t, and he didn’t.
re: threats: of suicide; of violence to me; of violence to the new partner. Boy made a point of telling me when he tried to hang himself from the shower rod (typically incompetent). Physical abuse to me extended “only” to forced sex, but the threat was always there.
re: the timeline: all together, it was nine years of cohabitation … and over six months after the breakup/shakedown before Boy was out and mooching off someone else. And I learned later that he had cheated on me multiple times. Again, idiot me.
@LMN#115: please get help! You are worth so much to society, we can’t afford to lose you.
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JD –
Could we get clarification on why she took out $30000 worth of advances on her credit cards? I think the reason there has been so much negative criticism of Maria is the way her story derails at that point — people stopped being sympathetic, and ended up being confused instead. (I know I am)
Maria —
I’m sorry this happened to you. We don’t learn lessons in life without taking risks and getting burned. I know, I’ve been there. I hope you move forward from this and are able to keep it in perspective. As far as the people responding to your story and questioning your lifestyle choices, ignore them, they’re idiots.
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As to points a) or b)? I believed him.
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Maria, thank you for sharing this. There’s so much shame (and shaming – gee thanks, early commenters, for continuing that) attached with being in a bad-to-abusive relationship, and the shame is really what traps you there. Shining a light on what people can do can help break that trance.
I’ve been there too, despite being smart and very financially aware. The guy spent money in our joint accounts on music CDs and musical instruments when I was walking around in socks with holes in them. I put up with it because he was very poor growing up and I was not (so don’t I owe someone I love the things he missed?), and because, as he kept telling me, no one else would put up with me. And hey, I knew that people didn’t like him and no other guys were interested in me, so I guess no one else *would* put up with me.
When did I finally leave him? It wasn’t because we ran out of money – I kept cutting back my spending so we never did – but because I found friends. If I wasn’t so much of a unlovable person as the boyfriend implied, then I didn’t need to take his crap and fund his hobbies. And boy oh boy, my (now) husband and I keep all our finances very transparent and we discuss our goals all the time. It’s a good outcome, but a horrendous way to get there.
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I feel sorry for the creditors that got left holding the bag.
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Maria @123 said “Boy made a point of telling me when he tried to hang himself from the shower rod (typically incompetent). Physical abuse to me extended “only” to forced sex, but the threat was always there.”
Jeez, I hope this wasn’t my ex!
This sounds exactly like his MO, although he only threatened suicide (instead, somehow he got someone to beat him up and then showed up at my apartment expecting me to take him back). Forced sex, too, and I gave him as much of our shared stuff as possible just so I could get the heck out of Dodge. We were in grad school at the time, so that really limited how much money was at stake.
LMN, we got out and you can too. You need to make a plan, but there are people out there who can help. I can’t tell you how much better life is when you’re out from under this crap.
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My comment isn’t so much about the post as the comments, specifically JDs. I agree that we don’t want cruelty here, but I would like to point out that there have been a number of reader contributions without too much ‘blame the victim’. The story I read leaves enough open to justifiably condemn some of her behavior.
And this leads to a question: What’s wrong with being judgmental? I make judgment calls all the time. How can you help someone without judging their behavior? I understand she isn’t looking for help, but it sounds like there is behavior here worth judging. Just because victims have reasons for their choices doesn’t make them good reasons, and it certainly doesn’t make them good choices. Yes, a couple people stepped over the line and got nasty. But we seem to spend a lot of time in our culture not saying what needs to be said because we might hurt someone’s fragile feelings.
I think there is also a level of “but I learned my lesson, and here’s what it is:” that people were looking for. It may have been cut for the sake of brevity, or it might not be felt. But I think there is a level of frustration from people who are strong enough to not wind up in this kind of situation who want to know that someone isn’t going to make the same mistakes again. As this obviously happened many years ago and it sounds like Maria has moved onto a much healthier relationship perhaps the point is moot. At the very least I hope enough time has passed that Maria has been able to reflect on the whole situation (not just what she shared) and learn a lot from it and is now a better/stronger/happier person.
Regarding bankruptcy and comment #118 (DreamChaser57): Not all creditors are big bad credit card companies. Even if I were okay with people bumming out on contractual obligations (which I’m not) many creditors in bankruptcies are local businesses that have extended credit (or have billed for a service which has been unpaid), or landlords. I have no idea if the only default Maria had was to the credit cards she took an advance on, but it sounds like she financially spiraled downhill after that and there were likely plenty of people that were hurt by her inability to pay her bills.
As other posters have said, there is a place for bankruptcy, but no matter what the reasons for it, the relief felt by the filer is at the expense of people who in good faith provided a loan or service and won’t get it back.
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@Shara (#129)
There’s nothing wrong with critical comments, if they’re constructive. But plenty of the early comments were mean and lacked any sort of empathy. (I took the rare move of actually *moderating* some of the most offensive comments.)
For my posts, and for guest posts, I’m a lot more forgiving. But for reader stories, I’m asking GRS readers to maintain high standards in comments. Don’t call names. Don’t be narrow-minded. Sure, tell Maria what she could have done differently, but don’t be a jerk about it, you know?
It’s possible to offer constructive criticism in a manner that edifies a person rather than tears them down. There’s no call for tearing people down here.
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@Shara #129 – thank you, you said it better than I could.
I agree that cutting people down is not constructive, but neither is putting someone on a pedestal for having gone through rough times. There seems to be a lot of people saying that Maria was an innocent victim of a horrible man. After 9 years in any relationship, none of us could be called an innocent victim. There are 2 sides to every story, and only one has been presented here. The man who was the subject of this story has been completely villianized – is it not also appropriate to consider that he too may have been abused pretty savagely in his life? This would not justify any of his actions, just as his abuse of her would not justify her actions. Very few of us can claim to have had easy lives, but all of us are responsible for the decisions we make, and I don’t think it is inappropriate to apply the same standards to both parties in this case.
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Here’s my take mostly from a very detached perspective. Hope it doesn’t offend.
I honestly feel that this story is sort of like a mirror to people and what their beliefs are really color this situation which definitely including mine.
IMO, this boils down to a couple of things including “the path to hell is paved with good intentions”.
It also shows class/financial conflict at a personal level. I wish I could find the article where women marry men who are in their own social, ambition, physical (looks) and most importantly financial level.
This is no different. It was a mismatch in class and therefore doomed to fail. The woman gets the better job, the guy doesn’t and is not ambitious, starts to turn soft and lose status (understatement), and they start to grow further and further apart. This is regardless of feelings of love at the beginning.
Would this had happened if the guy was more successful and the women couldn’t find a job of equal status or none at all?
In our society, doubtful.
Women can still default to “housewife” with no paying job in the relationship. This is, of course traditionally so she can raise the family when children are eventually in the mix (which is a huge responsibility, not knocking on housewives here). Now, if they didn’t want children and this was still happening over an extended period of time, there are other more pejorative words for that kind of woman, IMO.
I have never seen a marriage with a “house-husband” who never gets a real paying job work out in the long term, ever. I know if I lost my job and after a year of not finding anything close to keep our standard of living, my wife would have serious thoughts of kicking me to the curb and finding someone else since she’s such a strong personality and a financial success in her own right. I lost status, therefore, equilibrium will eventually win out.
IMO, ambition and relative success in a man at their shared class level is a requirement for a women to feel safe, secure, and yes, even loved in a successful relationship. It’s a precursor to a nuclear family and raising children. People don’t seem to remember that romantic love only started happening after the Middle Ages and arranged marriages were the norm for financial stability.
I do think there are areas of personal growth to work on though from the woman even though the guy really was circling the drain.
Just because someone doesn’t share one activity “that she’s passionate about” and he’s not, that’s a major mark against him? Is this thrown in to make her look in a better light after finding a new beau?
I hope in any future relationships the other person doesn’t fall out of that activity and things could still work out.
Also, twice the comment about “and the other partners were women”. And? What? Did he cheat or not? Is it another comment to make them look better?
Ahh..correction from reading her comments: He did. I’m sorry to hear that
I feel sorry for both, but more for Maria. She honestly tried and got seriously burned. I hope she now can understand that financial status is one, if not THE most, important factor when finding someone that she can have a deep relationship with and a future.
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I went through a very similar situation to marry my “LOVE of Life” from high school at age 16. The rest was so similar. I went on to college and grad school and landed on a high paying job. He didn’t do anything after high school, sat at home and watched TV and played video games for the next 8 years while we were married.
I finally realized this wasn’t going to work. True love from high school isn’t the true love I have pictured anymore so I took the situation to the divorce court.
Of course, in a ‘No Fault’ state of IL, I had to pay him to maintain his life style because he didn’t have a job, ever. I lost my house to him, I had to give him half of my retirement and savings. i also had to pay lawyer fee. On top of that, I had to pay him a lump sum of huge amount of cash so that I don’t have to pay alimony. So after the divorce, I had 700 dollars in my pocket, He had 6 figure assets.
I wonder where is the fairness in today’s divorce law?
But the moral of the story is.. I can’t be happier now even though I had to rebuild my wealth. I am remarried and much happier. The money I lost in my last divorce means nothing to me anymore. I am just grateful that I finally moved on and now I have a bright future and a loving family.
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Namesarehardtopick (#50) hit the nail on the head with the comment below. Until women start rewarding “nice guys” as the desired man in our society and stop chasing the “bad boys”, this type of story will unfortunately be common. I know plenty of nice guys with a lot of money that are single, because the women they are interested in consistently go after men with no ambition. Then they wonder why they got treated like crap, and ask “What happened to the nice guys?” You did.
“That guy sounds like every “bad boy” I know. They won’t do anything except hang around with women and work out. Nice guys may finish last, but we have more money and always will have
.”
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@JLA #132 – I think I already answered a couple of the points you’re unclear on, specifically in re: cheating. The note about the activity wherein I met the new partner was included because often – you may not be aware of this? – the only reason a person leaves an abusive relationship is because they meet someone who makes them realize they don’t deserve to be abused. See above comments for more on that.
@Stephanie #131 – you’re right, this is just my side. Because this is a PF blog, not a women’s issues blog, I concentrated on the money and not on the relationship. The money issues are germane regardless of gender. You’ll have to take it on faith that the facts of the matter are as presented.
Believe me, I accept that I made a long series of bad decisions. This will be the last time I chime in on this discussion. Thanks again to all for taking an interest!
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After putting a bit more thought into the conversation I think there are two extreme reactions to this kind of story. The one: ‘blame the victim’ has been covered. But the other, IMO, can be equally as destructive and that’s enablement. Maria’s story should be set aside since it is a historical story, but many stories like this are currently being played out. Maria enabled her boy-toy to sink and she was in turn enabled to continue to make self destructive decisions. I am the antithesis of Maria. (I’m not saying that to gloat, but to contrast. I make stupid decisions of my own variety). I see people within my own circle playing out these same kind of destructive behaviors: people who don’t work, abuse alcohol/drugs, and make supremely bad decisions, and the PEOPLE WHO LET THEM. It frustrates me. Have you ever wondered about those people too fat to get around and how they get their junk food to keep gaining weight? Their loved ones supply them food out of love and compassion. The sick person really wants it, throws a tantrum, threatens or cajoles, but how is not confronting someone about their self destruction loving or compassionate in any way?
Maria thought he was dangerous and handed over a lot of money. Fair enough, but why wasn’t he later reported to the authorities who would have committed him temporarily (as a danger to himself and others) and let professionals handle him (and hopefully return her money)? She got out of the relationship with a sicko, but it sounds like he went on to keep spreading his brand of sickness to another weak woman.
There is a person close to me whom is an alcoholic with a serious problem with prescription drugs (anti-depressants and whatnot). She recently had a physical breakdown with forced detox and she is dependent on other family to drive, shop, cook, etc. while [hopefully] recovering. The rest of the family does everything short of buying her alcohol to enable her continued downward spiral. They refuse to judge her choices, so instead they continue to pick up the prescriptions she’s abusing and write checks on her behalf for thousands of dollars she doesn’t have for things she doesn’t need or to people who are simply taking advantage. She has made it clear that my husband and myself are not allowed in her sphere. We are willing to help, take her in and even support her while she can’t work, but we have made it clear that we would insist that she live clean and see a psychiatrist/psychologist and ethical doctor. That isn’t acceptable to her. And the painful thing is that it isn’t a reality she has to face because her family has too much compassion for how hard that would be for her and they don’t want to judge. Only she can make the decision to live clean, but the rest of us can weigh the decision in one direction or the other.
I think it is wrong to blame the victim, but it seems our culture has gone to another extreme where the victim isn’t ever held accountable for his/her actions that might have contributed. It isn’t my fault I was stolen from, but learning from the experience has made me less likely to be a victim of that crime again. It is wrong for a woman to ever be raped, but when a woman is attacked in a dark alley dressed to attract attention my first thought will be “poor woman” and my second will be “What the hell was she thinking?!”
@ JD
Thank you for the clarification, as I came to the party late I didn’t see the nastier comments. You have always been a fair moderator and I’m sure you had ample cause for deletion.
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Wow. I think the people who are judging the poster’s life choices are failing to relate this to finance, the real point of this blog. This isn’t a “relationship advice blog”, or a “judge the story blog”. And she didn’t ask for your opinion, she’s just telling it like it happened.
So what I take away from this is that relationships are just like investing in risky stocks-high returns also equals high risks, but high risk doesn’t always return an equally high reward. Living alone and having no family, friends or lovers, that’s low risk, but low return- like a CD.
Its the mix in-between that’s hard to figure out. What are the right boundaries to have? Obviously by the point someone is getting you to spin debt into cash for them, you are sunk, but what about supporting a partner who isn’t working? How much financial trust is enough, how much is too much? Also if you think about this like stocks again, when do you walk away, and cut your losses? Markets often go through periods of extreme depreciation, but then again you are supposed to be in it for the long haul, and over time you expect things to trend upwards.
Marriage is one of the few types of relationships out there with legally enforceable financial rules. Many other money/love relationships are not on any kind of paper. Does this story make anyone reconsider a loan to a lover or sibling? For myself I was in a relationship where I spent a lot of opportunity cost and money on a person who didn’t invest the same amount back (paid for trips to see him, etc), and when it was over I felt really frustrated, like I’d bought an expensive new car and totalled it in the first year- that relationship was supposed to last a long time! Those investments were supposed to pay off in a romantic future together. Leaving that relationship I gained a whole new perspective on what kinds of debts are okay for people who are just dating to share, and what kinds of giving is acceptable. It didn’t make me a better saver, but it did make me a better spender in that category-I justified spending when it came to relationships on non-guaranteed returns, because I was too optimistic about how much return I’d get back from someone who “wasnt quite ready for that serious talk”.
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@JLA, maybe it’s just that most of my friends are high earning/high education women, but I know plenty of happy healthy relationships where he is the trailing spouse and she outearns him considerably. She tends to have a stable job and he tends to do something high risk and potentially high payout. He is a novelist or artist or works for a start-up. He is doing something productive but not necessarily high compensated or not yet highly compensated. It takes a very mature man who is comfortable with his masculinity to make that work.
That’s not the same as the situation outlined here in the Reader Story, but I think that’s what makes it a trap that a person can fall into. It’s hard to tell what is financial dependence and what is just exploration, and these dynamics can change over time.
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While some of the commenters might be right that it was partly her fault for letting it happen, it can be pretty tough to see these things clearly when you’re in the midst of the relationship.
Good for you for getting yourself out of it, even if it wound up costing you a lot. The guy’s obviously a jerk and would have just kept making things worse if you’d stuck around.
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@Maria
It does make me feel better that you didn’t leave anyone in the lurch who couldn’t absorb the loss. And I hope you do not take my comments personally. I agree with others who have said that putting your personal story out there takes a lot of fortitude.
When you are in the middle of the situation it’s amazing how frequently common sense just flies out the window. It’s easy to KNOW something when it is someone else’s situation, but a lot harder to see it in yourself. There is also a level of “redefining normal” that a lot of people don’t understand. When the downhill slope is gradual you don’t often notice your altitude until you’re looking up at a seemingly insurmountable way back up.
But please be fair to the rest of us who ARE looking in. I’m sure very little [constructive] has been said that you haven’t thought yourself. Though I acknowledge it can be painful to hear others say it.
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@JLA #132 – I think I already answered a couple of the points you’re unclear on, specifically in re: cheating.
Yeah, I saw that after I posted and updated the comment. Again, Sorry to hear that. I had that happen myself and it can be pretty heartbreaking.
“The note about the activity wherein I met the new partner was included because often – you may not be aware of this? – the only reason a person leaves an abusive relationship is because they meet someone who makes them realize they don’t deserve to be abused.”
When I read your story. it just looked like it was that the shared activity with the new partner was the reason for the leaving, not that activity was the impetus for the realization that you were in a abusive relationship and the new person helped you with the change. I’m sorry I misread.
I also had something similar happen to me. I was also in a emotionally abusive relationship and only when I was in a similar activity with someone else (in this case, rollarblading) and saw such different outcomes of the activity (non-confrontational or being competitive, at ease with the new partner) did I realize that I too should also think of my situation.
@#137
“@JLA, maybe it’s just that most of my friends are high earning/high education women, but I know plenty of happy healthy relationships where he is the trailing spouse and she outearns him considerably.”
This is pretty close to what my life is like now..I’m the lesser earner (somewhat considerably) and my creative field looks like is getting more precarious as I get older. (No one, is in the field after 40 and I’m approaching that. I’m considered ancient currently and I’m getting to the ceiling of earning power).
“It’s hard to tell what is financial dependence and what is just exploration, and these dynamics can change over time.”
I occasionally worry about dependence myself because the few paths left in the future are freelance (which can be really hit or miss), teaching (not as good of salary ), my own company (really risky) or moving to a different creative field which can take awhile. Hopefully I can be more secure in myself and my talents to contribute as much in the future as currently.
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Thank you so much for sharing your story Maria. I lived through a scarily similar situation – lost a nice home, (took out a 2nd mortgage & handed the money over to him) a nice car, nice job & was eventually forced to bankruptcy. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but we all wear blinders when we don’t want to believe the truth. By the grace of God, 10 years later I have recovered emotionally & financially. There were many harsh lessons learned by a naive little country girl & I will never forget them. As with all mistakes – they aren’t truly mistakes if we learn from them & change our ways. Hopefully others can learn from experiences like ours. It is so easy to say that we “would never..”, but reality can be very deceptive at times, and only when you are far away from the circumstance can you really see what was happening right before your eyes. Now, I’m married to a wonderful Christian man who has no problem meeting the needs of our family – financially & emotionally. Good Friday will be my last day of work outside the home, and I am looking forward to focusing my attention on helping my family and others. For anyone that is currently going through this situation – please know that there is hope, and you can recover. Learn what you need to learn, don’t be too hard on yourself & keep your eyes on the future!
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Maria – Congrats for getting out – yay for you! Some people will never get your story, some people will. What matters is that you took action and pulled yourself out.
“Living well is the best revenge.”
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Lesson of the day…
“This above all: To thine own self be true”
Most of the problems could have be avoided if the author wasn’t afraid of the truth.
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Namesarehardtopick (#50) and J (#135):
In reference to this: “Namesarehardtopick (#50) hit the nail on the head with the comment below. Until women start rewarding “nice guys” as the desired man in our society and stop chasing the “bad boys”, this type of story will unfortunately be common. I know plenty of nice guys with a lot of money that are single, because the women they are interested in consistently go after men with no ambition. Then they wonder why they got treated like crap, and ask “What happened to the nice guys?” You did. ”
As a single woman who has always aimed for nice guys but ended up with a track record of men who were only pretending to be nice, I tend to wonder who you aim for? Are you looking at women who only go after “bad boys” and what does that say about you? I know plenty of awesome, single and solvent women and guess what—they cannot find a nice guy with ambition either. Do you all live in a cave and is that why we cannot find you?!?
It is really easy to suggest that “women only chase bad boys”, but that does not make it true nor does it apply to Maria’s story. Also, your statements put the blame on women and that, although a frequent occurrence is, to be frank, pretty tired.
Lastly, thank you, Maria, for sharing your story. I am glad that you are on the other side of it now. Just keep living well and celebrate every day of your new and better life.
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@LMN – You should be able to get help from a womens’ shelter or other group that helps those in abusive relationships. They can help support you and counsel you on how to get out. My understanding is that leaving an abusive relationship requires a plan, and those groups can help you. I hope you are able to get that help. You are worth so much more, and you deserve true love and respect.
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I’m happy that everything went right. It is sad, but being a woman seems to be an additional risk factor for many things in our world. I am not, but I do know a lot about the need of delimiting one’s personal space. It’s like we’re taught to live with our arms shrugged. Then an emotional vampire comes and occupies the extra space without even noticing it and… well, you get tired of being shrugged, until one day you have enough. I’m glad you escaped. Thank you for sharing.
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I love GRS. There is so much good content here. However, I think some of the guest posts that are being featured on GRS contain topics outside of the realm of this site. Erica’s post was really more about being an entrepreneur, and this post is really about abuse. I want to read guest posts, but I really don’t feel that some of them have really been in line with the main theme of GRS. No offense, J.D., just what I see.
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I’m most surprised by the unashamed sexism in this thread. As if this same story doesn’t play out exactly the same with the genders reversed, or in same-sex couples.
I’m particularly bemused by the claims that this is evidence the old ways are best, and that women should demand that the man pay for dates. Based on my own experience in an abusive relationship, this is a major red flag (for the man).
It’s not “romantic” or “chivalrous”, it’s creating a pattern of inequality at the very beginning of the relationship. That pattern is likely to repeat and worsen over time. And if the woman is demanding it, that’s even worse still. “If you were a real man, you would pay for everything.” That’s using shame as a mechanism of control, on the very first date.
I also think it’s rose-tinted thinking to extoll the old patterns of courtship and marriage as somehow superior. How far back was the ideal time for relationship bliss? The 50s? The 20s? If the man in the story had offered to buy Maria from her father for $1000 and a cow, would that have fixed the relationship? What about $5000 and two cows?
Abusive relationships are nothing new, if anything they’re less pervasive now that divorce is legal and socially acceptable. The lesson is to recognize the signs, listen to your friends and family and get out before it gets even worse (because it always does). The lesson is not that we need to revert to traditional gender norms or that men are babies. If it were a woman mooching off a man for nine years, that wouldn’t be any better even if it’s more socially accepted. Abuse is abuse.
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