Every roomate in my early years that I “Lent/Gave” money to still owe me to this day 30 years later. Learned early & even with interest, it would not be $30K at this point.

Every talk show, TV interview, Printed material, this Blog, etc advise against such as it NEVER ends happily. I learned early and have forgiven and moved on.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us to remind all of us just how bad things can get.

Take Care all…

I’m glad you had the courage to start over… Declaring bankrupcy must be really hard…

Fortunately, my mother never had problems with debt. My father did. She almost let him take advantage of her, but the divorce came earlier than that. On the other hand, all the money my mother saved through the last 20y for my college and maybe to help in buying a place for myself had to go to my father, in order for him to leave us alone. Not the best way to spend that amount of money, but a useful one indeed.

So, Maria, know that you are not alone. Many people are in that position…

I admire you not only for the courage you shown in leaving that being, but also in sharing your story with us!

Thank you!

Did her boyfriend rob her? Sure. That’s extortion, plain and simple. But I’m not comfortable assigning the same moral value to exercising and defaulting on a contract…that’s just the ugly side of doing business.

Congrats on the good credit score, by the way–I’ve never had any credit (I’m trying to establish some), so I guess I see the lender’s side more than the borrower’s. If Pfizer went bankrupt tomorrow, I wouldn’t consider myself robbed because my stock became worthless…sure, it’d be a shock, but that’s the risk I took and it would be my own fault. To the bank, she was an investment, and investments go bad.

There were 6 different cards, each extending a (assuming for argument) $5K cash availability. The idea being that if she is going for a weekend in Vegas, they hope the debt is with them. She had a history of paying on time – they knew that there was a possibility that she would take a lump sum & run, but I don’t think this falls under predatory lending – this is how credit works, they look at your history & make a judgment. She had the benefit of good credit, and they thought she was a good risk.

I enjoy a nice credit rating, which means that if I have a serious emergency, these companies will make cash available to me. I am grateful that this is available, because I have had such an emergency, and was able to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. It is now years later, and I have just finished paying it off (YAY!). I never ended up on the street, thanks to Citibank. Their interest rates are crap, their customer service is awful, but they helped me survive, and yes, I am grateful. I also paid every penny back.

The crap interest rates (and increasing difficulty in getting credit) are due, in part, to people who take as much cash as they can, and default. Maria did it on purpose. When she walked in the door of the bank, she knew she could not afford the loans. She felt she had no choice, I understand that, but she DID have a choice. This gets into a whole discussion on abusive relationships, which I don’t know belongs on a personal finance blog. The short version of my feelings on the matter is that I would rather sleep in a dumpster than cuddle up to a man that raped me. Maria felt differently. She DECIDED to steal the money to please this man that she believed wielded power over her. His weapon of choice, from what I can tell, was guilt. No drugs, no physical weapons, no basement dungeon. He told her he would be sad if she didn’t, so she did. I find it very hard to empathize with someone making that choice.

So yes, I feel empathy in her plight as a human being, and for not being strong enough to say ‘no.’ I really hope she has improved on this, and that her current relationship is better than her last. I hope she is happy, and I hope the man she left has sought help. On this matter of the $30K, though – she was in control, whether she felt like it or not, and to me, it was a clear case of theft, and not a loan.

The bank extended a contract to Stephanie saying she could borrow $30,000 or more without collateral, and has nobody but itself to blame when she defaults. There’s a good reason there’re no statutory damages in contract law.

And can we also drop the “well she shouldn’t have been living with him” thing as well? If he had enough power over her to march her to the bank, he could’ve just as easily marched her to the alter…and the ensuing marriage would’ve been even harder and more painful to extricate herself from.

I really hope she’s happier now.

Thank you for sharing such a difficult and personal story. I assume that you’ve shared this chapter in your life because you wish to try and prevent others from falling prey to a similar dysfunctional situation.

I remember sharing a difficult, personal story some years ago, and being chastised by someone in the comments. Those comments stung. It took a long time to realize that the key-lashing I took had nothing to do with me or my story. They were simply the tools an opportunist used to advance her own personal agenda.

I’m sorry that you went through this. I’m so glad that you’re strong enough to reflect on it and share it. I sincerely hope that someone will see themselves, their best friend or their child in this story, and have the opportunity to stop a case of financial abuse before it happens.

We have to teach our children to protect themselves better- both their hearts and their pocketbooks.

Maria: If you’re still reading the comments- I think you’re very brave. You have invested a lot more than money in this relationship- emotions, hopes & dreams, time, your life- and it is never easy to walk away from that. Reminds me of a post I read long ago on this site, about how emotions affect personal finance. Good luck to you!

When will people learn that a relationship takes sacrifice on both sides to make it work?

I usually love reading this site, but this story is pointless and petty.

As a man, my rule is: let him buy the drinks if he wants to, but always have money to pay your own way if you want. This rule is expandable to all investments and if you love a guy, you will insist and support him to be in the same situation.

I’m particularly bemused by the claims that this is evidence the old ways are best, and that women should demand that the man pay for dates. Based on my own experience in an abusive relationship, this is a major red flag (for the man).

It’s not “romantic” or “chivalrous”, it’s creating a pattern of inequality at the very beginning of the relationship. That pattern is likely to repeat and worsen over time. And if the woman is demanding it, that’s even worse still. “If you were a real man, you would pay for everything.” That’s using shame as a mechanism of control, on the very first date.

I also think it’s rose-tinted thinking to extoll the old patterns of courtship and marriage as somehow superior. How far back was the ideal time for relationship bliss? The 50s? The 20s? If the man in the story had offered to buy Maria from her father for $1000 and a cow, would that have fixed the relationship? What about $5000 and two cows?

Abusive relationships are nothing new, if anything they’re less pervasive now that divorce is legal and socially acceptable. The lesson is to recognize the signs, listen to your friends and family and get out before it gets even worse (because it always does). The lesson is not that we need to revert to traditional gender norms or that men are babies. If it were a woman mooching off a man for nine years, that wouldn’t be any better even if it’s more socially accepted. Abuse is abuse.

In reference to this: “Namesarehardtopick (#50) hit the nail on the head with the comment below. Until women start rewarding “nice guys” as the desired man in our society and stop chasing the “bad boys”, this type of story will unfortunately be common. I know plenty of nice guys with a lot of money that are single, because the women they are interested in consistently go after men with no ambition. Then they wonder why they got treated like crap, and ask “What happened to the nice guys?” You did. ”

As a single woman who has always aimed for nice guys but ended up with a track record of men who were only pretending to be nice, I tend to wonder who you aim for? Are you looking at women who only go after “bad boys” and what does that say about you? I know plenty of awesome, single and solvent women and guess what—they cannot find a nice guy with ambition either. Do you all live in a cave and is that why we cannot find you?!? It is really easy to suggest that “women only chase bad boys”, but that does not make it true nor does it apply to Maria’s story. Also, your statements put the blame on women and that, although a frequent occurrence is, to be frank, pretty tired.

Lastly, thank you, Maria, for sharing your story. I am glad that you are on the other side of it now. Just keep living well and celebrate every day of your new and better life.

“This above all: To thine own self be true”

Most of the problems could have be avoided if the author wasn’t afraid of the truth.

“Living well is the best revenge.”

Yeah, I saw that after I posted and updated the comment. Again, Sorry to hear that. I had that happen myself and it can be pretty heartbreaking.

“The note about the activity wherein I met the new partner was included because often – you may not be aware of this? – the only reason a person leaves an abusive relationship is because they meet someone who makes them realize they don’t deserve to be abused.”

When I read your story. it just looked like it was that the shared activity with the new partner was the reason for the leaving, not that activity was the impetus for the realization that you were in a abusive relationship and the new person helped you with the change. I’m sorry I misread.

I also had something similar happen to me. I was also in a emotionally abusive relationship and only when I was in a similar activity with someone else (in this case, rollarblading) and saw such different outcomes of the activity (non-confrontational or being competitive, at ease with the new partner) did I realize that I too should also think of my situation.

@#137

“@JLA, maybe it’s just that most of my friends are high earning/high education women, but I know plenty of happy healthy relationships where he is the trailing spouse and she outearns him considerably.”

This is pretty close to what my life is like now..I’m the lesser earner (somewhat considerably) and my creative field looks like is getting more precarious as I get older. (No one, is in the field after 40 and I’m approaching that. I’m considered ancient currently and I’m getting to the ceiling of earning power).

“It’s hard to tell what is financial dependence and what is just exploration, and these dynamics can change over time.”

I occasionally worry about dependence myself because the few paths left in the future are freelance (which can be really hit or miss), teaching (not as good of salary ), my own company (really risky) or moving to a different creative field which can take awhile. Hopefully I can be more secure in myself and my talents to contribute as much in the future as currently.

It does make me feel better that you didn’t leave anyone in the lurch who couldn’t absorb the loss. And I hope you do not take my comments personally. I agree with others who have said that putting your personal story out there takes a lot of fortitude.

When you are in the middle of the situation it’s amazing how frequently common sense just flies out the window. It’s easy to KNOW something when it is someone else’s situation, but a lot harder to see it in yourself. There is also a level of “redefining normal” that a lot of people don’t understand. When the downhill slope is gradual you don’t often notice your altitude until you’re looking up at a seemingly insurmountable way back up.

But please be fair to the rest of us who ARE looking in. I’m sure very little [constructive] has been said that you haven’t thought yourself. Though I acknowledge it can be painful to hear others say it.

Good for you for getting yourself out of it, even if it wound up costing you a lot. The guy’s obviously a jerk and would have just kept making things worse if you’d stuck around.

That’s not the same as the situation outlined here in the Reader Story, but I think that’s what makes it a trap that a person can fall into. It’s hard to tell what is financial dependence and what is just exploration, and these dynamics can change over time.

So what I take away from this is that relationships are just like investing in risky stocks-high returns also equals high risks, but high risk doesn’t always return an equally high reward. Living alone and having no family, friends or lovers, that’s low risk, but low return- like a CD.

Its the mix in-between that’s hard to figure out. What are the right boundaries to have? Obviously by the point someone is getting you to spin debt into cash for them, you are sunk, but what about supporting a partner who isn’t working? How much financial trust is enough, how much is too much? Also if you think about this like stocks again, when do you walk away, and cut your losses? Markets often go through periods of extreme depreciation, but then again you are supposed to be in it for the long haul, and over time you expect things to trend upwards.

Marriage is one of the few types of relationships out there with legally enforceable financial rules. Many other money/love relationships are not on any kind of paper. Does this story make anyone reconsider a loan to a lover or sibling? For myself I was in a relationship where I spent a lot of opportunity cost and money on a person who didn’t invest the same amount back (paid for trips to see him, etc), and when it was over I felt really frustrated, like I’d bought an expensive new car and totalled it in the first year- that relationship was supposed to last a long time! Those investments were supposed to pay off in a romantic future together. Leaving that relationship I gained a whole new perspective on what kinds of debts are okay for people who are just dating to share, and what kinds of giving is acceptable. It didn’t make me a better saver, but it did make me a better spender in that category-I justified spending when it came to relationships on non-guaranteed returns, because I was too optimistic about how much return I’d get back from someone who “wasnt quite ready for that serious talk”.

Maria thought he was dangerous and handed over a lot of money. Fair enough, but why wasn’t he later reported to the authorities who would have committed him temporarily (as a danger to himself and others) and let professionals handle him (and hopefully return her money)? She got out of the relationship with a sicko, but it sounds like he went on to keep spreading his brand of sickness to another weak woman.

There is a person close to me whom is an alcoholic with a serious problem with prescription drugs (anti-depressants and whatnot). She recently had a physical breakdown with forced detox and she is dependent on other family to drive, shop, cook, etc. while [hopefully] recovering. The rest of the family does everything short of buying her alcohol to enable her continued downward spiral. They refuse to judge her choices, so instead they continue to pick up the prescriptions she’s abusing and write checks on her behalf for thousands of dollars she doesn’t have for things she doesn’t need or to people who are simply taking advantage. She has made it clear that my husband and myself are not allowed in her sphere. We are willing to help, take her in and even support her while she can’t work, but we have made it clear that we would insist that she live clean and see a psychiatrist/psychologist and ethical doctor. That isn’t acceptable to her. And the painful thing is that it isn’t a reality she has to face because her family has too much compassion for how hard that would be for her and they don’t want to judge. Only she can make the decision to live clean, but the rest of us can weigh the decision in one direction or the other.

I think it is wrong to blame the victim, but it seems our culture has gone to another extreme where the victim isn’t ever held accountable for his/her actions that might have contributed. It isn’t my fault I was stolen from, but learning from the experience has made me less likely to be a victim of that crime again. It is wrong for a woman to ever be raped, but when a woman is attacked in a dark alley dressed to attract attention my first thought will be “poor woman” and my second will be “What the hell was she thinking?!”

@ JD

Thank you for the clarification, as I came to the party late I didn’t see the nastier comments. You have always been a fair moderator and I’m sure you had ample cause for deletion.

@JLA #132 – I think I already answered a couple of the points you’re unclear on, specifically in re: cheating. The note about the activity wherein I met the new partner was included because often – you may not be aware of this? – the only reason a person leaves an abusive relationship is because they meet someone who makes them realize they don’t deserve to be abused. See above comments for more on that.

@Stephanie #131 – you’re right, this is just my side. Because this is a PF blog, not a women’s issues blog, I concentrated on the money and not on the relationship. The money issues are germane regardless of gender. You’ll have to take it on faith that the facts of the matter are as presented.

Believe me, I accept that I made a long series of bad decisions. This will be the last time I chime in on this discussion. Thanks again to all for taking an interest!