My pal Chris Guillebeau has a great interview up over at his blog, The Art of Non-Conformity. He recently profiled artist Tsilli Pines (who also happens to be a loyal GRS reader and a customer of my family’s box factory). The interview discusses Tsilli’s development as an artist, her initial steps toward starting her own business, and her decision to make the leap to full-time entrepreneur. Here’s an excerpt from the conversation:
Chris
What is your advice to someone who wants to “escape” from traditional work and start something like this?Tsilli
Find what you love to do, and then do it, even if it doesn’t bring in money at first.Experiment on the side, experiment on the cheap. It’s the single most important concept to grasp if you are looking to build something from scratch.
Chris
What worries you?Tsilli
Everything! I’m a chronic worrier. But there’s a bad way to worry, and a good way.The bad way of worrying paralyzes you. You worry you won’t make the money side work, and it seems so overwhelming that you decide not to even try. I used to worry in this way, and did nothing.
The good way of worrying keeps you competitive, keeps you striving. For example, I still worry about making the money side work (especially now that I’ve thrown my weight into my own business completely). I still think, “What if all the work dries up? What if a competitor comes into the market that takes away my market share?” But I worry about it differently now. I worry about it by thinking ahead of the curve, recognizing what my strengths are and what I can do to mitigate that risk.
I think this is fascinating. I’ve always admired artists for their passion, but wondered how they could make a living. It’s great to see somebody making a go of it. (Doubly so since Tsilli is a GRS reader!)
You can see some Tsilli’s art at her website; her business is called New Ketubah.
By the way, I recently did something I’ve always wanted to do: I commissioned an artist to do a painting for me.
Chris’s wife Jolie does whimsical paintings of children’s toys. When my wife’s sister loaned Jolie a stuffed Kermit the Frog to paint, I loved the result, and I knew I had to commission a painting of my very own. Here is a very very J.D. painting, which I plan to display in my Man Room:
I love Kermit holding his pipe, his glass of Scotch at his side, and sitting on a copy of Your Money or Your Life. The only thing that could make this better would be if he had a stack of comic books by his side.
Speaking of art and entrepreneurship, Jolie is conducting an interesting experiment right now. In order to challenge herself (and perhaps make a little money), she’s creating 100 paintings in 100 days. And she’s selling each of them. For the first painting, she charged $1. For the second, she charged $2. And so on. The 100th painting will go for $100.
Though the money Jolie earns from this will be modest ($5,000 before expenses), it’s a great way for her to get her name out there. It’s a marketing ploy and a money-making project all in one.
Artists are entrepreneurs, too! It’s fun for me to get a small glimpse into their world.
[The Art of Non-Conformity: The Eight-Year Escape Plan: Interview with Tsilli Pines]
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I’d be concerned about putting that image up. Kermit is a protected image, and the lawyers don’t tend to have a sense of humour about this.
I know, why do they waste their time, etc. etc. But then you look at things like this: http://hidenseek.typepad.com/come_out_come_out/2010/02/cannot-chase-paperchase.html and realize that you can’t be on both sides.
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Love the painting!
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Oh yes. The 100 pic challenge. It’s circulating through all the artists right now…half of my peers have one going on, and I’ve considered it as well.
Although, I find it interesting to see it here, since my art life and my financial life are usually two very separate things. 0_o
Edit: P.S… artists usually barely scrape by. Yes, it’s possible to make a living at doing art, but it’s much akin to people making a living at making music. For every Lady GaGa, there are thousands of bands and singers who are working 40 hr week retail jobs and struggling to get their music out on the side with no avail. Much the same with artists… for every artist that “makes it” and is able to make a NICE living solely off of their art, there are thousands more struggling in poverty trying to get their name out with no success. The supply and demand is very unbalanced in the art world…there are far more artists than there are buyers willing to invest good money into art.
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Love it! I think it’s so important to do what you love. It makes life great!
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Thanks for the post, J.D. It’s an honor to share space with Chris and Jolie and to be mentioned here, as I’ve been reading your blog pretty much since the beginning.
About money and art: it’s not quite the voodoo that everyone seems to think it is. I know a quite a few working musicians, artists, and designers, and they put in the hours that other people put in at their jobs (or more, admittedly), but they do their creative work. It’s rather banal in every sense, except that they get to do something they like as their job.
I was personally paralyzed with fear for many years about making this kind of jump. Almost everyone discouraged me from going to art school, perhaps rightly. Instead, I got a BA in a social science.
I went out into the working world for a few years, realized that I truly did want a creative career, and went back to school. I am fiscally conservative and decided I would study graphic design because it was a creative area in which there were actual jobs making actual money.
Working as a commercial designer for 10 years is really what prepared me for being a working artist. I chose to work in a small studio where I got to see how every aspect of business was conducted. Almost everything I do now is informed by the on-the-ground business school education I got in that environment. These are the skills that are rarely acquired by people who go into the arts.
Because of my background, the way I now run my business is a bit of a hybrid: I do creative work to meet a market need, which I consider the “design” side. New Ketubah is part of that, though I’ll be expanding my activity into other areas this year. And then that frees up space for me to also do what I consider to be the “art” side with absolutely no pressure to sell.
This allows me total authorship and freedom of expression. The irony is that having that freedom allows me to do good work, which people then want to buy. So it’s also a profit center, though a more modest one.
The main difference between being a working artist and having a “regular” job is much like the difference between an entrepreneur and an employee. You are responsible for every aspect of your practice, including the business side.
Most creative people spend a lot of time perfecting their skill as an artist or craftsperson (a critical component of working at that art or skill), but they are less interested in the business side. However, you need to be engaged in that side of things; otherwise, you can’t work as an artist.
I find the business side to be just as fun and creative as the artwork, and I think if it were de-mystified for more creative people, they would see that they could do it, too.
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A great post to generate new energy from entrepreneurs out there. Worry and fear has kept alot of aspiring entrepreneurs by the fence.
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Thank you for such an encouraging post! Congrats on successfully launching your own business and pursuing your creative passion. This kind of information is helpful to creatives of all kinds. There is so much discouragement from the world at large, telling you the odds are stacked against you and that a life of hardship awaits anyone who tries to pursue her artistic dreams.
Glad you didn’t listen to the naysayers, and you forged on ahead. And it sounds like you did it with a pretty reliable safety net in place, without having to struggle in poverty to make it happen. Kudos!!!
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Thanks for cheering me on, Piccolina! There really is so much discouragement out there, even from well-meaning people. You have to dig deep to distinguish between constructive vs. destructive advice. The upside is that when you get past the naysaying, you feel like you can handle anything.
I personally did a lot of soul-searching with my husband to figure out what would make us both feel secure enough for me to take the leap. We set concrete goals around those things. Then I made the commitment that when I hit the goals, it was time.
Risk management is smart, but you can get lost in it. Knowing when to jump is just as important as hedging against the scary stuff.
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Great article and great job Tsilli. I’ve never been happier since I decided to take my love of sculpting and jewelry and make it a business. It’s not easy, being an entrepreneur never is, but it was worth it.
I know what you mean about discouragement, I’ve had complete strangers ask me why I don’t have a “real” job. This is my real job and I’m not starving or deep in debt (should have the last of my student loans paid off this year then I will have none).
As for risk, there’s risk in everything, I could be hit by a car tomorrow. While I don’t take stupid risks at the same time I don’t let fear keep me from doing what I love. If I fail then I’ll start over because I’m prepared for the possibility (and the possibility that some day I might want to do something else) I have backup plans and a healthy emergency fund. Much like preparing for the possibility you might someday lose your job.
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J.D.– as always, you’re amazing. So grateful for the kind words and for putting me up here with Tsilli the Rockstar. As you can see from her comments, she’s both wise and inspiring.
Brenda– The starving artist myth still rings true for a lot of people (and I’m certainly not making a living wage from this project), but many artists are financially successful, especially when they focus on the business of being an artist as much as the art. The 100 paintings in 100 days project has been done by a few other people, because it works. It’s not for everyone, because it is a lot of work. But I’m loving it and so glad that other people are as excited about it as I am!
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That is one fantastic painting! I’m definitely going to check out Jolie G.’s work. (And how neat to see comments from both artists here on GRS!)
Thanks for a great post, J.D.
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Good post. In an effort to raise money to pay down some of my debt, I’ve been making macrame necklaces and selling them at work. I have one of those office jobs that require employees to have readily visible ID badges. 5 sold, 200 to go!
Seriously though, I don’t think I could make that many. It takes too long and I don’t love doing it enough…
Good luck!
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Seriously art is underrated. I love art and I truly believe that artists should be able to earn a lot more money if they would be willing to learn about the marketing and entrepreneurship side of the world. Easier said than done, but it’s doable.
Check out this great article on debunking the myth of starving artists at Ramit’s blog: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/artists-are-terrible-at-money/
Go change the world artists!
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Cool stuff! I wish I had some kind of artistic ability- oh well. Instead I guess I’ll just enjoy the abilities God gave others.
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Instead of charging $1 more for each of the 100 paintings, Jolie should *double* the price every day — $1, then $2, then $4, and so on. No more starving for that artist!
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As someone who worked very very hard for many years to establish myself in an artistic field, and then took those skills to shift into a more business oriented field, this post (as well as the link to Ramit’s blog) are interesting.
The one piece of advice that I give every young artist that I speak to is to TAKE BUSINESS CLASSES. So many artists approach their craft with the naive belief that as long as they work hard and are talented, they will be rewarded accordingly. There’s also the belief that nothing is more wonderful than doing what you love as a full time job. First of all, artistic talent and effort only gets you so far. The most successful artists all have an understanding of how to bid jobs so that they are not losing money, how to market their product so that they get in front of the right audiences, and how to shift from the process of being a sole content producer towards managing an artistic “brand” and the team that’s involved in producing that. Secondly, many artists find that when they start trying to do something they love as a full time job, they actually start hating the art. By rounding out your skills with business expertise, you actually make yourself available for positions that are connected to the arts–for example, I switched into marketing, but in a position that involves quite a bit of direct design work. Because I am not doing artwork full time, I’ve found that my enthusiasm for my artwork has begun to return. Finally, the industries are changing. In most artistic fields, there are far fewer “mid-level” positions and far more people competing for entry level positions than even 10-15 years ago. Having business experience is one of the keys that will help you stand out from all the other candidates to jump into those higher positions.
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There are many more of us artist/entrepreneurs out there than most people realize! Although the common image of an artist is the flaky dreamer, unable to make ends meet, a great many of us are focused, dedicated, and disciplined. We are business owners and we are bread-winners. We are artists who are sick of the old myths, who want to not just make art, but make a living from their art.
Like Tsilli, I left a productive career in design to start my own business. I had been working in Silicon Valley during the boom, and grew tired of using my talents to help others achieve their crazy dreams, while my own dreams got pushed aside. So I took the leap. Ironically, most of the “traditional” companies I did work for back then went under, while my “flaky” art-based business is still going strong.
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Thanks for this encouraging post for us artists! Looking at our art making as a professional is the key it seems. People have a day job, they go on time do their work and come home. We artists need to look at ourselves the same way even though the studio is in the home.
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Thanks for this post, for several reasons.
- I went off on my own 16 months ago (after my 4th layoff in 12 years, enough is enough). Since I was young I have been a photographer, and people said I should sell my work. Now I do. Somedays, I wonder if I did the right thing. Articles like this remind me to stick to it.
- I am going to need custom boxes towards the latter part of this year. I knew I saw a link somewhere several months ago but couldn’t find it. Today I found it in your email. Thanks!
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I have a lot to say about this subject, but I’m a day late to the party and a few others have already touched on the big stuff.
99% of artists are poor because 99% of artists have no idea how to run a business or market their work. They’re busy creating original work and finding their own angle on their subject, but are happy to work in an old-school business model that exists to deny 99% of them the opportunity to ever make a living.
We think that we have to hide in our studios and hope to be discovered. Once we are, we’ll be rich. Artists as a whole accepting that business model is exactly why 1% of us make millions of dollars and the rest of us make almost nothing.
There’s incredible opportunity for a comfortable living for anyone that’s willing to step out of that mindset and create their own business rather than try to fit into someone else’s.
Creating art is not a business. Selling it is. Unfortunately, as long as artists continue to separate the two rather than integrate them, someone else will be more than happy to dictate our success to us.
Now…let me get started on the music business…
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I’m happy to see a more encouraging post on this topic. Everyone I sent the IWTYTBR post to thought Ramit’s comments were ridiculous and condescending.
(Also I don’t think 99% of artists are poor. The figure I’ve heard is that out of art school, about 75% give up, or couldn’t cut it in the extremely competitive art world. Giving up isn’t the same thing as staying in a field and making no money when you aren’t trying.)
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EuroBubba, I totally agree with you that Jolie should charge more! The truth is that even at $100, the paintings she is making are a steal.
One thing that hasn’t been discussed yet about her 100 paintings project is the valuable information she is getting about the people who love her work. Whereas with more expensive pieces, you don’t tend to get a lot of market research because the buying volume is lower, this project gets Jolie a lot of feedback. So it’s not only a great way to get the word out about her work, but it’s also a way to learn about the tastes of the people who follow her. Some purists would say that the market is irrelevant, but I think like a designer, and I believe that artists can do a lot with good information about their buyers.
I couldn’t agree more with Nancy L. about the value of a well-rounded education for artists. In the performing arts, there’s a term called “triple threat” for people who can sing, act, *and* dance. Those are the most employable performers. Same with visual artists: the broader your skill set, the more game you’ve got. And if part of that game is on the business or PR side, you’re good to go.
A few people have made a great point about the false security that a day job can give you. The truth is that most employment is at-will and the risk of being caught without an income is sometimes greater than when you run your own business. This is especially true if you can run a lifestyle business with low overhead. For all the hair-raising ups and downs, you have control over your own hustle. You also generally have multiple streams of income, and diversification is good.
emcguire: you are so right about the statistics. The numbers are far less depressing when you look at who’s really got their head in the game.
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Jolie’s project may get her feedback, but I’m not sure that that feedback will greatly help her achieve her business goals. A person who buys a painting for $1-100 is not in the same market as someone who buys paintings at $500 or $1000. It may get her a lot of publicity, but the question will be whether this publicity will attract higher paying customers in the future.
I know a lot of photographers who are running into this exact problem. They started out selling art prints on sites like Etsy for $10-20, in the hopes of building an audience. But now they are having trouble breaking out of that low-end market.
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Daniel, I agree that the people who are paying $12 dollars for a painting and a buyer of some of my larger pieces aren’t necessarily the same person. But in this case, it’s also not all about the money. There’s something really touching about someone waking up at 4am just to check their email in hopes of buying a painting they can afford. That is incredibly valuable feedback. I have several people who really love my work, but may not be able to afford an original. One of the reasons I got so excited about this project was that it gives those people a chance to be a part of my work, too.
At the same time, someone who falls in love with a $75 painting is more likely to save up for a larger painting, because they already feel invested in the artist and have a relationship. And that’s what this project is about– building a relationship with people who love my work.
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Justin Says:
“Cool stuff! I wish I had some kind of artistic ability- oh well.”
Poppycock! Everyone has creative ability and with the right kind of training you’d be surprised how far you could get making different kinds of art. It takes mostly persistence and patience and understanding (breathing room) from others in your life to get to where you want to go.
It might take a year or 10 years but the process is as important as the end results.
–
As for “art and entre..” there are some pitfalls that can REALLY get you from where you want to be, IMO.
First, can you create your art and have the mindset of it being a job? Most people love to create something personal, take their time, and make it an enjoyable process. But if it’s a full-time job, sometimes you’re fresh out of ideas, or crispy, and you really don’t want to create. Anything. You still have to push yourself to do something and get it done by a deadline, day after day after day to keep bread on the table. Some people can do that, most can’t and it might kill your love of the art itself.
Second, many artists (myself included) are able to do this kind of work or get their break through the support of a patron. I don’t necc. mean a standard kind of patron, I mean more, your spouse or if not married, your family. I’m lucky enough to be able to quit a corporate factory kind of art job 3 years ago and took time off to reassess and get my skills up to find another artistic job at a much smaller company with my creative control (and beter pay eventually). Many people don’t have that luxury or think that their spouse/sig other/family has their back, but when the chips are down that might not be the case. Do you want to pressure those people and yourself while you try to find your niche? I would then do the “Dave Ramsey” thing and massively save for the endevour on top of the support of your “patrons”.
Last, expect it to take AT LEAST twice as long as you think it would take to get your business and things rolling and plan accordingly.
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May I inject a drop of realism/cynicism?
A large number of new artists/craftspeople who “leave their day jobs and pursue their dreams” are women who can rely on their husband’s income.
I found this while researching my own dream artistic career. Etsy, Ebay, and a lot of other venues are top-heavy with married women.
Recent waves of interest in fiberarts, ceramics, and glassblowing/lampwork have all been driven and populated by women whose husbands support the family.
It’s very VERY different if you’re the husband/breadwinner.
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Some people do undervalue their work in marketplaces like Etsy. I was deterred for a long time because I wondered how to make the money side work.
However, there are many people — men and women — making actual livings for their households by doing their creative work. I stayed in my full-time job for 4 years while building up my business on the side because I wanted to replicate that income before going solo.
There are many ways to have an equal partnership in a household, and being a key breadwinner is merely one of them. But even by that standard alone, I know quite a few artists and craftspeople who have built a business that sustains their household financially. It can be done.
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A fantastic article on the blend of art and entrepreneurship.
Daniel Pink and Seth Godin would definitely be proud.
When I interviewed Seth, he made many of the same points. I think artists in the future are more than primed to be the next class of dominated businessmen and women.
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