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I keep intending to retain “ask the readers” as a regular Friday feature — and I keep failing. You folks send me tons of great questions, and I’d love to share more of them. This week, for example, Lisa wrote with the following.
“Having kids has made spending choices much more emotional and complex,” she says. “You can’t always calculate a return on investment.” Here’s her predicament:
My husband and I are looking to purchase a home in our new city, but we’re having trouble deciding where our values, finances, and priorities intersect.
We have young children, one who will start public school this year. We’re considering buying a home in a modest neighborhood so we could have a house/car replacement fund available, rather than taking all of the down payment money and putting it in a “better” house. The schools in the neighborhood are solid, but not the best in the district. If we buy in this smaller, less fancy area, we can choose a 15-year mortgage, minimize our overall house expenses, and have more money for all of life’s priorities. But, it feels like we’re “cheaping out” on the kids.
To compound our “analysis paralysis”, we lost a fair amount of equity when we had to sell our house to transfer out of state, so we’re feeling less than enamored with the idea of putting money that is currently liquid into a building that isn’t guaranteed to hold its value, much less appreciate. (We have no car/consumer debt, and we have a comfortable emergency fund.)
I think our family might feel more comfortable in a more modest neighborhood with more coupon-clipping parents and kids who don’t have the latest and greatest, but I also want my children to have a great education. Have other parents faced this battle, doing what’s best for the overall budget vs. doing what’s expected for our kids? We’d love to hear how it worked out for you.
I love questions like this. They’re a clear demonstration that personal finance isn’t only about the numbers; it involves a complex calculus of math, emotions, and dreams.
Most of the time, I can offer suggestions when people ask these sorts of questions. But when it comes to kids, I’m at a loss. Kris and I have chosen to remain childfree, and as a result, I’ve never had to wrestle with these sorts of sticky issues.
From a non-parent perspective, I admit that the obsession over which school a kid will attend seems…well, I don’t know how to put it in words that won’t make people angry. But I’ve watched friends and family go through mental and financial gyrations to get their kids into the right pre-schools, which boggles my mind. I’m a firm believer that education is more about the child than it is about the school. If a kid has been taught to love and value learning, she can thrive almost anywhere.
In other words, I’d urge Lisa to make her decision based on finances and not the school district. This may mean she needs to take a more active role in fostering her children’s intellectual curiosity, but that’s a good thing all the way around. But what do I know? As I say, I don’t have kids, and I don’t know what it’s like to actually face this decision. It’s one thing to say it and another to live it.
So, what do you parents say? How do you judge the trade-off between expenses and education? Is it worth paying more to live in a good school district? How does one make this sort of decision?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Choices, Education, Kids Friday, 12th March 2010 (by J.D. Roth)
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This is a tough one. We picked a home and a neighborhood that we loved as a couple. If we have kids, something we ae working on, most likely we will have to send our kids to private school or try to get them into a public magnet school since our local schools are not good (mostly an ESOL issue).
My best friend, who lives in another state, moved her children out of one private school, in a fancy area, to another private school, in a not so fancy area, because she was disturbed that her oldest child, who was like 6 at the time, was complaining that they were poor. Now they are thinking of moving and she is looking for an area with good public schools and looking forward to not paying $15,000 a year for private school for her two girls.
I think the school issues is more than just what level of education will the kids receive, it is also about the peer group, economic status, crime issues, college prep., parental participation, sports, arts, etc.
If you buy up, in a fancy area, most families will feel pressure to keep up with Joneses. My parents did that, they bought a small home in an expensive area, on the water no less, and my brother and I went to very good public schools with rich kids. My parents were very well educated but did not earn a whole heck of a lot as college professors and they spent a lot on experiences not things (we spent our summers together as a family in another state, also a fancy resort area but we lived in a cabin). I never had the right clothes, my parents never had the right cars, and I never wanted to invite other kids over to my house. So school was tough for me, I didn’t fit in, felt like and outsider, hated my parents at certain times, etc. But I got a great education and now, very much, respect the choices my parents made.
I am a huge proponent of education and gung-ho for quality education - and VERY annoyed that public education varies so much across districts. I can’t advise you on the right decision, but here’s some things to think about:
1. Can you do some research to identify where the biggest quality differences lie between districts? In particular, are you likely to notice this in elementary school or is it more of a high school issue (AP classes, college placement, etc.)? If your kids are young, you may well move by the time they are in high school, when the budget may allow it easier.
2. Are property taxes higher in fancy district? That may add even more costs. On the other hand, houses there may hold value better, but again it’s something to research.
3. For both areas, have you talked to any residents (or at least read local papers / newsletters, found any online forums) - do you know if people in the area share your key values - e.g., education, frugality, community service? This is going to be the pool from which your kids make friends.
4. Can you specify what you will be giving up for the larger house, in terms of life’s priorities? Would they be at a good school with no money to do any of the activities that make it better? Will you be living so close to the edge that every tiny purchase needs to be scrutinized and life is highly stressed all the time? Or is it losing the triple-premium cable package with 28 sports channels?
5. Does living in one area give you more time with them than the other, because of commutes, conveniences, etc.?
Having bought a house when we moved cities, I would actually recommend renting a house in either location and buying after you know the areas better. I am sure there’s a ton of other questions to consider besides those above.
Good luck!
Jenn
Well, I can tell you a little about our decisions, though we’re no more settled. We left a house in another state and we’re currently trying to rent it. In the meantime, we’re renting a home in our new state. The school district here doesn’t score very well; our oldest son is going to kindergarten there.
So I agree with JD on this; I don’t rely on the school to teach my son to learn. I believe that having a child who loves learning will be the key rather than how good a school he goes to. I won’t be able to afford private schools for my kids, much as I’d love to give them any advantage. But we try to help him learn as much as possible at home.
So how do we do it? Well, my wife takes the kids to the library about once a week, and they pick out books about whatever they’re curious about. Every night, they get dedicated time with me to read stories and answer questions. What books come home? Well, they can pick whatever they want, and I’m surprised by the subjects that come home. We read about Jupiter, simple machines, Leonardo da Vinci, George Washington, spiders; anything the kids are curious about. I try to answer any question they ask.
For reference, our kids are 5, 4, 2, and 3 months; but they’ve got to be the most curious, inquisitive kids you’ll meet =).
Short answer: I agree, don’t fuss so much about the school. Give the kids financial stability, which helps with marriage stability, which gives them a home where it’s safe to ask questions and where they feel secure and comfortable.
Private school, cheaper house. Your kids will even be better off.
Though I have kids (4 to be exact!), I don’t really have to wrestle with this because we chose to homeschool. The only thing we need to be concerned with regarding school districts and home purchasing is the impact that a school district has on the resale price of the home.
To answer the reader’s question, though, I’d just offer that I’ve read and heard that parental involvement is a much higher predictor of educational success than a specific school is. So, no matter which house you choose, you can, in large part, control how well your children are educated.
J.D., I totally agree that obsessing over preschool is quite unnecessary. None of my children did any sort of preschool and they’ve still all been doing 1st grade math and learning to read halfway through their kindergarten year.
When my husband and I bought our home, we considered school systems as part of the equation, but it honestly wasn’t the biggest factor for us. As luck would have it, we ended up in a relatively tiny home in an upscale town with one of the best school districts in our state.
Now, 8 years later, I am thanking my lucky stars that we went with that decision, rather than buying perhaps a larger home in a lesser district. As it turns out, our son is in the process of being diagnosed with special needs. The difference between our experiences working with our school district and the experiences of other mothers I speak to on my support boards is enormous. Our school comes to *us* and offers us all sorts of services that we’ve never even considered asking for. It is such a load off our shoulders to not have to fight tooth and nail just to get the school to accommodate our child’s needs. Given the added costs that we have for therapies, doctor’s visits, etc, we never would have been able to afford private school on top of a mortgage.
Private schools in our area run about $12-15K per year. Because our home is so modest, we pay much less than that in taxes. Additionally, starter homes in our town are highly desirable, so the value of our house has never dropped. As for being around the “haves”, it’s really not that big a deal. Granted, I was living in NYC for a long time, so I’ve had plenty of experience having nothing compared to my neighbors, but I’ve found that people around here respect you when you are confident in your own path. And if you’re susceptible to feeling jealous of your neighbors’ possessions, you aren’t going to avoid it just by living in a cheaper town. There’s plenty of people in those towns that also have bigger cars, more expensive clothes, etc.
I grew up lower-middle-class (my husband and many friends would say poor, but they are wrong) at an economically-mixed school. We didn’t have the latest clothes and sometimes didn’t pay the phone bill, but I never felt poor. My husband and many of my friends grew up upper-middle-class to rich (the latter in my opinion) and attended schools in fancy areas. They grew up feeling poor because they didn’t have as much as those around them. One of my friends was a scholarship student at a private school. She constantly talked about how poor she was growing up and I took her at her word until I visited her childhood home, which was clearly middle class and way above my standard of living as a child. After this experience I always said I’d want to send my child to somewhere where she is in the middlish or top half of the income distribution. And as the child of an academic living on one income, that means not the top schools in the area.
But that was before I had a kid. Now I see why parents want the best education for their kid and unfortunately that means often schools in richer areas. My daughter is only 2 so no decisions yet but I’m already feeling torn.
If it makes you feel any better, I attended a middling mixed-income public school and now have a PhD from a very well-regarded university. However, I did grow up in Canada and from what I understand the variation in school quality in the States is much higher.
I’m not coming from a US perspective, and I’m aware that the school system in the UK is different in some ways, so you may wish to bear that in mind when reading the following…
Choosing a school is a big decision, and where you live will have an impact on your choices. However, I am a firm believer that how well your kids actually do in life depends on them, how you bring them up, as well as how they are taught at school.
That’s not to say that a bright kid will do as well in a failing school as in a great school - if the teachers are demotivated and the lessons are disrupted then it will affect them. But they will probably do just as well in a “solid” school as a great school.
I don’t know what the needs of your kids are - you do (or may do, you don’t say how old they are). Think about this. Are they really bright? Average? Do you have a kid with potential dyslexia or other special needs? Different schools cater for these needs differently. In my home town, there are a number of good to excellent schools, but given the choice, I would choose different ones depending on the answers to those questions - some schools are academic, some are more rounded, some have fantastic provision for special needs. Very few, if any, shine across the board. Parents will know this sort of thing - talk to them.
Lastly, whatever you decide, don’t beat yourself up about it. You clearly care deeply about your kids, or you wouldn’t be agonising over this. To me, it sounds like whichever way you jump, your kids will grow up in a loving, secure home, with parents who value their education and wellbeing. And that’s what will really matter in the end.
We are just about to move from a very expensive area with great schools to a good area with good schools.
I am of the opinion that what makes a school better is the children and what make the children better pupils is parents that actually care about their children’s education. If the neighborhood is made up of families that value education you can’t go wrong. We are in the UK but I don’t think things are much different in the US.
As a disclaimer, I don’t have kids. In fact, I’m fairly recently married and young. I’m probably not qualified to tell you what to do, however, this is how I feel and how I hope I will act when my family gets to this crossroad.
When I was young (3 or 4) my parents moved from Indiana to Maryland. I didn’t know it at the time but they moved to a school district they felt was a good fit for us. They chose it because even though it wasn’t the ‘best’ (ie the district with the most money), it was a district that was diverse and where the teachers seemed to genuinely care about each student. Being diverse also meant that the lines between well off and not so well off were blurred so there was less competition to have the latest and greatest. The district didn’t have the best test scores or the best sports teams. It wasn’t the biggest by a long shot. Actually while I was in high school, we were the smallest in the county.
Then we moved to a different neighborhood when I was 9 or so. We were still in the same district for middle and high school but we would have changed elementary schools. This time my parents kept us in the same elementary school we started in. This was probably for two reasons: One, we re already there and had friends and routines and it was the middle of the school year; and two the other school did not have the same quality of teacher. I don’t know if they were worse or not but that is the impression I get from my reflections.
Education should never have become about money or class. For your kids choose a place where the teachers genuinely care about each of there students. Choose a place where they can meet a variety of people from all ends of the spectrum not just rich kids or poor kids, black kids or white kids, smart kids or dumb kids. Choose a place where the parents seem to value those things too. Choose a place where the parents aren’t so concerned about looking right that they miss out on what their kids need and want.
This is much more than a financial decision. But it’s also not an end of the world decision. Your children are resilient. They will thrive if you are thriving. You have the most influence over their lives and their attitudes about life. If you are stressing out about whether or not they will be adequately prepared, they’ll pick up on that and maybe start to doubt that they can be prepared. If you make your decision and encourage their “intellectual curiousity”, as JD put it, regardless of what school system the go through they will be ready for life. My personal belief is that you have the ability to be the best parent for your child when you stop worrying about what other parents think is the best for your child.
Feel free to check back in 5-10 years when I, hopefully, have my own children to see if I’m living everything I mentioned so far. Good luck!
My wife and I were faced with a somewhat similar dilemma this fall after a rough start (chronically ill teacher, lots of subs, no continuity) to 1st grade for our daughter. We can afford private school, but it would have put a real strain on our budget.
We opted not to pursue the private school route because it would hamstring us financially–we wouldn’t be able to set aside enough for retirement or emergency fund or our daughter’s 529 fund (etc etc) and we thought that could have serious negative ramifications for our entire family–what if the car breaks down, what if one of us gets sick, and so forth.
Furthermore, I’m lucky enough to get a sabbatical through work, and paying for private school would put our plans (6-8 weeks in Europe in 2011) on ice. If we went to private school, our vacation plans for the next 20 years would be severely strained and vacations are an educational opportunity as great as any school setting in my opinion.
So what we’ve chosen to do is to pursue the “gifted” options available through our school district; perhaps that’s a route you could investigate during your research. It might provide a balance between financial security and your kids education.
As a public school teacher (who has also taught in private and Catholic).
1) look at the high school more than the elementary. Graduation acceptance rate to a four year university is the key.
2) decide if YOU are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to overcompensate for a low preforming school.
3) If you are not- or think your children will not be compliant- go for the BEST school district you can find and buy a small house there.
I cannot tell you the difference in education between a medium and great school district in all areas- but normally it is HUGE!!!!!
4) All private/Catholic schools are not the same - BTDT.
Our story…
We choose a great house in a medium high school district. We put in tons of hours at the school. Our gifted son went to West Point and his friends went to state colleges and are working on masters.
Our daughter did not “land” the same classes since she was “just” a normal above average IQ. She dropped out in two years- most of her friends did the same thing. She simply did not have the background or stamina to compete. She is returning to college this year (at 28).
We put in the same amount of time with each child.(My husband took a job at the school as a teacher.) They were one year apart and both ran Cross Country (a magnet for smart kids).
Schools are changing quickly to -those who have and those who do not have. The bells and whistles of smart boards do not compare to quality teachers who use quality textbooks(or REAL books) to teach. I taught nine novels in sixth grade in my last school. My current class has read one through Language Arts!
My grandson will be homeschooled by me and his mom. We are saving to send him to the best high school we can find and afford in our area. Forget saving for college!
JD, it should make a difference to you. Housing will long be determined by schools- since that is where most of your taxes go. You may be able to sell your house in a bad school area if it is a historic one- but it will sell for more if it is in a good school area.
BTW- I worked for a publishing company for 3 years and saw 700 schools. The difference in education in the US is astounding. The strangest thing is that parents all claim their children’s school is fine- even the failing ones. Go figure.
If both neighborhoods are in the same district, talk to the school district and ask which school they’d go to.
A few years ago, our kids were attending a great elementary school in the district they were in. The district was split up over 3 or 4 small towns, each with several neighborhoods. The way it was explained to me, the taxes for schools get split up in PA and the school closest to where the tax was collected gets most of that money, that meant some schools in the district had money for teacher salaries and supplies and some didn’t - which plays a huge role in the education of the student body as a whole.
The school district received complaints from some of the poorer neighborhoods, that it was unfair their kids weren’t getting the same education as students in the same district but who lived in neighborhoods whose schools had larger budgets because the families were paying higher property taxes (which go towards the school taxes here). The school district agreed, and decided to bus students all around within the district, to put kids from every neighborhood and town into every one of their schools (no, I don’t know why they didn’t decide just to split the budgets up evenly or by head count). As a result, even though we’d chosen to live in an area with the best schools in the district, once our kids hit 5th grade (middle school in that district), they were bussed to a school that could not provide history or science text books due to budgetary concerns. If we’d known it was going to happen when we moved, we could have lived in a place that was less of a burden on our wallets.
Talk to your school district, ask them where your kids will be attending school based on the addresses and grades your kids are in. This is information your Realtor should have, but may not be up to date on and may save you some money while putting your kids in a great school.
I have to agree with poster # 2 that the first thing to do is identify what the differences are between the two school districts. The top rated one could have top of the line computer labs and sports facilities, which may not be important to you, or it could be top rated due to parental involvement, special services, or other factors which are important to you.
My husband and I went with the small house, great district route, mainly because this is where I grew up. I do sometimes wish we had more money available to travel and send the kids to various enrichment opportunities, but sometimes well off towns have bigger budgets for free activities to take advantage off (top notch libraries with many children’s programs, near free rec sports programs, etc.)
It can be annoying when my kids complain of being “poor” because some of their friends ski every weekend in the winter and go to various islands for spring break, but along with things we are doing now, I plan on taking the kids on some service trips when they get older to see what poor really means.
School is a big part of the life of a town, but it is not the only part.
Good luck with the decision!
I’m with J.D. on this. I’m not sure that moving to a richer neighborhood translates into “better” schools, anyway. It could just mean that the school has a more state-of-the-art football stadium.
Parents have to take an active role in keeping their kids challenged and fostering a love of learning in them, regardless of which school they go to. Too many people shovel this responsibility onto the schools, and it is no substitute for parents who care and stay on top of things.
At the school I went to, the only thing anyone seemed to care about was sports. The school hired coaches, not teachers, and then stuck them in front of classrooms a couple times a day, where they taught straight out of the textbook through rote memorization. It was dull and unchallenging. I always thought there was no reason for me to even go to class, since I could easily read the book and write down the answers to the questions at the end of the chapter myself in less time. So much of my time during the school day was an utter waste.
The problem with this approach is that it fosters laziness. After a while, you get to the point where you don’t even want to be challenged or work on anything interactive that resembles true problem-solving. Just get your mindless assignment done and hand it in. Students disengage mentally because it is the only way they can cope with the sheer, mind-numbing boredom of it.
I think it is even worse for kids in school today, because the bureaucracy is bigger - kids are taught to take tests. But the truth is, science and math are actually interesting! You can’t count on schools to teach students to care, though. The system is too screwed up at this point. That is going to have to come from the parents.
Buy the less expensive house, and spend the money you have left over taking your kids to places where they can learn and experience new things. Buy them books and educational computer games. Get them involved in activities outside of school, where they can interact with people of all ages. Teach them about all the different kinds of jobs and careers there are for people. If they like building and fixing things, for example, they are already predisposed to find math and mechanical principles interesting. If your kid likes re-wiring your old electronics stuff after it breaks, certainly he or she will find it interesting to learn how electricity actually works. But you have to take that initiative yourself - once in a while you may find a great schoolteacher who steps up to the plate and cares, but don’t count on it.
I don’t have kids yet (first on the way!), but I would like to point out that I am aware that in many areas you can send your child to a school that is not the one they are ’supposed’ to go to in the district. Usually there are surcharges associated with this and limits on the number of kids allowed to do this, but I would look into it before making a decision.
Oh also, the reader said the schools were good but just not the best. In that case, I would not even care. The only way I would care is if I were sending my child to a school in a very depressed area with a bad reputation and that I worried they might be unsafe.
I agree with JD. Do what makes the most financial sense for you. Imagine how stressed out you might be if you max out financially, particularly if you realized that it didn’t have to be that way.
Schools were a big factor when we moved into our neighborhood, but then again - any school was an improvement from the school district that we were leaving. Quality of life was our main priority - it’s part of the glue that keeps families together!
Until this year, our county had a program called “controlled choice”. You could request that your child go to any elementary school in the county (giving up to 3 choices), and they were placed according to a lottery and some rules meant to foster racial diversity. I spent hours upon hours choosing which elementary school was “the best” for our daughter (who was entering pre-K), with our neighborhood school as my fallback choice, even though I didn’t like their test scores and some aspects of the demographics.
Well, she had to go on the waiting list for my #1 choice school … but after a few weeks at the neighborhood school, I wouldn’t have transferred her even if a spot had come open. I *love* her school! The teachers and staff are great, and so loving and warm. The kids are wonderful, and the other parents I’ve met are really nice. The school has been very responsive to my daughter’s particular needs (accelerated reading and speech therapy). “Controlled choice” was discontinued after that year for budget reasons, and since she was already in her neighborhood school, she didn’t have to change (although a lot of her classmates did).
And I have friends with a daughter the same age who goes to my #1 choice school and have had problems with their child being physically assaulted by another child on more than one occasion.
Bottom line, if you think you’ll be happier with the less-expensive home in the “solid but not the best” school zone, you’re not cheaping out on your kids. If the school was mediocre or bad, you’d be cheaping out (unless you planned on sending them to private school). But a school that you describe as “solid” is probably a place where your kids can flourish just as well as in “the best” school, and maybe even do better.
Having been in exactly the same situation I can share how our choice worked out. We went with the modest house and have never looked back. The biggest ingredient in your child’s education is YOU! The more you are involved the more your individual child will see the value you place on education. If being a “better” neighborhood means you and your spouse stress about finances you’ll have less energy for your child. We lost one job shortly after moving, and even though it set us back, it gave me the opportunity to volunteer at my children’s school. Being there a few times a week helped me understand the educational challenges we would have to overcome. We had the money for educational after school activities. In addition, my children never felt uncomfortable in their thrift store clothing and hand me down backpacks. Choosing a modest environment freed us to spend time/energy on our children, and save for their college education where that money can really pay off!
If you are planning to stay in the area and your kids are this young, it might be worthwhile to rent for a year in the area while you do your research. If you decide to move after a year out of that district, it is just your child’s first year of school. He/she will adapt relatively easily to starting somewhere new if needed.
That could give you additional time to research and discuss the issues with other parents and teachers. Also, renting could ease your anxiety about sinking money into a unstable real estate market for the moment.
Sell the kids, it’s the only way.
I totally agree with JD. I would ask Lisa whether or not her and her husband both attended the best possible schools, or if they themselves are living examples of how it’s possible to succeed, having attended “mediocre” schools. I think as long as the parents are committed to engaging their children and being part of the educational process, then the school’s “reputation” is virtually irrelevant.
As an objective, child-free observer, I would advise Lisa to make the choice that puts her family in the most secure position financially. Focus on saving the extra cash to pay for a good education where it really counts (college), rather than servicing a large mortgage to get her kids into “top notch” junior- and senior-high schools.
Also, the best gift you can give your children is not being a burden on them in your own old age. Living a financially sensible life now, and saving diligently for your own retirement is a key part of that. Crippling yourself now would impede your ability to achieve financial independence.
That’s a tough question. I like J.D.’s answer, honestly. When we bought our home about 3 years ago we did factor in the school district. It just happened that the home we loved was in the best district and was about the same price as the homes in other districts we looked at, so I guess we just got lucky. We’re right on the border of two districts. Maybe look around the border of your districts. Is there something in the better district, but on the “border” so that it’s not in the ritzy neighborhood?
There is other sound advice in choosing the most wise financial course as well. That will allow you the freedom of saving more now for your children’s college education. College will be where the rubber meets the pavement, so to speak. In my opinion, I’d save for that rather than use the money to live in the better public school district or to spend on private school now.
As for the discussion in the comments regarding public vs. private, both my wife and I are products of public education and believe very strongly that children can excel in that environment. My wife was valedictorian of her high school class.
The ‘best school’ is based on so many things (some that may not be of any value to you). I have two kids that go to two different schools. The one school that was
perceived as the best school is not the best in my opinion.
I think the more important question is in which option that you write about allows you more time to volunteer and be present at your child’s school?
You are right. Kids and dreams are what make personal finance so personal. I have two kids yet to enter school, but if you talk to enough people you will find some that like one district and some that like the other district. Growing up in an under-privileged school district wasn’t bad for me. In fact it afforded me very different opportunities than the richer school district. More money might mean less fund raising for your band trip, but more money will not make your child smarter. It might facilitate in the learning, but it is the effort of the parent and child together to foster that drive to learn and work hard that will enable future success, regardless of the size of the school they attend, physically or fiscally.
As a former public school teacher in a poor urban area, I truly believe students get out of school what their parents help them get. Most of my best students had parents who were involved in their lives and made an effort to at least connect with their teachers. Which isn’t to say those parents are active in the school, but active *with their children*. It really riles me that some people think the school should teach their child everything. Great students can come from poor schools, and the best schools can turn out students who feel entitled with no work ethic. It mostly depends on the parents.
Lisa
I would suggest this.
1) First rent a home in the modest neighborhood and see how it goes, as in how your child copes with the school etc.
2) If you feel it is working for you, then go ahead and buy a house in the modest neighborhood. (Important note: Buy a house only if you plan to stay in it for a minimum of 7-8 years, if you are not going to, then it is simple, rent it).
Living in a modest neighborhood, by no means implies that your child will be spoiled. A child actually learns a lot from within the home itself, from his/her parents and very less from outside influences.
Another thing to note is that real millionaires actually live in modest neighborhoods. (Read “The millionaire next door” if you don’t believe.)
Actually living in modest neighborhoods does influence your kid in a good way in the sense he would learn how to live within your means (No outside spendthrift influences from people in rich neighborhood. Keep in mind that living in rich neighborhood does not necessarily make them richer or better).
PS: I still don’t have kids though, just recently married.
Good luck.
I went to the worst schools in the worst school systems in the lowest educated state. (This is somewhat of an exaggeration, but pretty close to true. I went to Rain High School in Mobile, AL. If you look it up, you will see that I am not lying here!)
My parents were poor. Putting everything into perspective, my daughter will take the education that’s given to her. I feel that I am very successful, despite my “lower level” of education. This is because I have always wanted to learn and to be successful. I want for my daughter to experience that same thing.
I’ve undergone a 180 on this question, since having my kids and watching them atte4nd school and get older (2 kids, now in middle school).
I grew up lower-middle class & I’m a univ professor in my late 40’s –very liberal, feminist, divorced, not rich. I live in a city with what are considered “very good” public schools, and I’m committed to sending my kids to the public schools. I’m also definitely not a “hovercraft” mom–I’m hand’s off in many ways because that was the way I was raised myself. I think teachers have enough problems without parents carping on them all the time.
I own my own home in a lower middle class to poor area of town–older tract homes with mostly retired people in them, cheap apartments, and low density public housing.
My kids accordingly attended the local public elementary school–which I was happy to see had a very diverse student body for this part of the US (rural upper midwest) (30% black-mostly Somali immigrants, 10% Hispanic). My own kids are Hispanic, so I thought this was a good fit.
Attending this elementary school has helped my kids to become very comfortable with racial and religious/ethnic diversity–as well as with their own ethnic heritage. On the other hand, I’ve had to (sadly) acknowledge that there are problems with this school.
1) The high number of ESL children means that most of the teachers’ attention is focused on these children because they struggle academically so much for at least their first few years in the US. This is great, except that other kids (including mine) who are not struggling, get ignored, or worse, my kids get pressed into acting as teachers’ aides because they are so “far ahead” of the other kids. But one of my kids is actually testing at only the average for the (rather low) minimum standards for the entire State! I don’t think this is adequate, yet the school thinks this is awesome because they have so many children who aren’t anywhere close to meeting the mimimum standards.
2) The poor tax base in the neighborhood means that the school doesn’t have the best resources, & doesn’t attract the best teachers. It’s not just cosmetic–Last winter they sent home notices saying they were only going to heat the building to 50oF, so please have the children dress warmly (!). The cafeteria is awful–they don’t cook the lunches there (no facilities) and the food is very low quality. The playground is a dirt field with a rusty swingset. The library contains fewer and very dog-eared books (I am always buying books myself for the library). The textbooks are out of date. There are no teachers’ aides. The music and art and phy ed programs are almost non-existent.
3) It is worrisome to me that about 80% of the children at my kids’ school have no plans to attend college and don’t have college educated parents. I worry because kids are influenced by their friends. It doesn’t matter so much now because they are young, but I certainly don’t want my kids to decide when they are in high school that not attending college is an option for them! Again, this is sad for me to realize because I am a liberal–but I certainly expect my kids to attend college and have high academic aspirations. I don’t see them doing this (easily, anyway) if they remain in an environment where even completing High School is a question, and where academic achievement is considered awesome if you meet the very low minimum standards.
Next year my kids will be switching to the best school area in town–which we are very fortunate to have theh option of doing because their Dad recently purchased a house in that area.
In summary, your children’s education is something you really don’t want to compromise in any way if you can possibly help it. I think it’s worth it to spend more money in order to get them into the best schools you can, since there are huge differences between schools and since these differences can really affect how your kids do later in life. If my ex wasn’t living in a good school area, I would definitely move and take the financial hit to get my kids where they need to be.
Education is not just about school. By living in a less expensive home, you will have more money to do the extras that educate children in a different way — think music lessons, trips to aquariums, zoos and museums, foreign travel, books, theatre tickets, etc. Not only will the quality time your family spends together doing all these things be invaluable, but the education the children will receive will be as well.
I agree with those who believe education experiences are different between schools. I moved just before entering high school and went to a good public high school. However, I had to lower my educational goals as the new high school did not have some of the language classes I wanted to take (just French, German, Spanish, and something called Latin :). I also had to fight to be educated. They normally don’t let someone take geometry and algebra in the same year but to take calculus I had to do it.
I was almost never challenged in high school. This is not because I was overly smart but because the classes were taught to the students who were slightly below average and did not do their homework. This meant the first 30 minutes of class was a waste of time.
The schools you go to will mold you as a future person. If you don’t have to try for 12 years and you are on the honor roll every term, you learn bad habits that stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me.
We made the choice to live in a less expensive house in an area often considered under-performing. Both our public schools and local parish school (we’re Catholic) had mediocre reputations from the outside.
Our son was 3 when we moved here - we figured we would figure it out.
Now he’s 5 and enrolled at the preK at our parish school. And you know what? Our perspective is COMPLETELY different. Both the public and parish schools are great options, with caring, committed parents from many walks of life in leadership roles.
Test scores tend to be lower because we have many kids enrolled learning English as a second language. The flip side is that our neighborhood has a lively, interesting character that was lacking in other places we considered.
The best part is that our modest lifestyle doesn’t stand out. When I hand over my stack of coupons at our (admittedly rather shabby) grocery store, the cashier admires my thrift.
And there’s something to be said for living in a ‘hood where your kids’ teachers are your neighbors - not priced out.
Lastly, remember that schools can - and do - change. And the better school district might not offer the best fit for your child. It was one of the reasons we decided against stretching to buy a more expensive home. We’ve watch friends do that and end paying private school tuition, too.
@Karen - Good points, and I may feel VERY differently in five more years.
I also do not have kids. However, as a kid who went to 10 different schools growing up, and am graduating with a Dr. in front of my name, I think I can speak from some personal experience of different school systems.
Since your youngest is starting kindergarten it won’t hurt to rent for a year. I suggest going in gorilla style. Volunteer at a the school districts you are thinking of moving into. Get a 1st hand feel of what is going on there. Numbers only tell you so much. Maybe you will meet other parents of kids who are volunteering there and can get some other 1st hand knowledge. Talk to the teachers, get a general feel for the students. Are they rowdy? Is it a generally good environment for learning? Are the teachers involved?
Your kid will only be in kindergarten. In 1st grade, kids are at the age where they are very accepting and will make friends with anyone. I know because I went to kindergarten in 2 different states and 1st grade in another.
That way you can have peace of mind with the school decision.
Jan (#10, teacher) has it right.
Heed her advice and go w/the best school district you can afford (or do private education). My husband is a police officer and he refused to have our children sitting next to the kid whose father was arrested for menacing the night before.
It’s not always just a matter of whether or not your kids want to learn. Peers play a big part in the success or failure of your child’s school experience. We have so many misguided children today here in the U.S.
My three have always gone to private schools and perform much better than the public school districts on the standardized tests; my oldest has received a 4-yr. merit scholarship to a very good private H.S. They are safe, accepted, and the parents teach their kids to know right from wrong.
“If you want to do it right, do it yourself”, as they say. I think that as long as the majority of children going to your local school are not criminals or in the process of becoming criminals, then that school is fine. For education, the most important factor is the level of involvement by the parents.
My parents spent a lot of time teaching math and science to my brother and me when I was in elementary school, because they felt that the US public education system had standards that were too low in these subjects. They spent time after they got home from work making sure that we were ahead of our peers in these subjects, until we were both 2 grades ahead of our peers by the time I was starting 3rd grade. They did not use any fancy materials or videos, just practice workbooks that they bought from the local bookstore. The sheer amount of attention that my parents paid on our education ensured that we could not fail - they wouldn’t let us.
In your case, I would buy the house that made more sense financially, and pay more attention to what is going on in the schools.
Do I ever have an opinion on this one!
I met my husband when he owned a house in a now-nationally recognized terrible school district (Kansas City, MO). We wanted to move because the house wasn’t in a great neighborhood for kids (reasonably safe, but probably half the houses in the neighborhood were or had been meth houses). We followed the school district while we lived there, and even now kind of keep up. It’s despicable the things that idiot administrators (the insult is actually added as a qualifier. There are many great principals and superintendents who have the children’s best interest at heart. They didn’t work in KCMO), teachers and school board members have done to destroy a once-great district. Whom did they also kill? Homeowners. Property values are terrible in the district because so many families have fled it.
We got out of our home in 2003, a month after our first child was born. My main requirement was an excellent school district. My husband’s was a house in the country. We settled in a country-fied district that is not perfect, but is recognized throughout our state as one of the best. We have never regretted our decision. We bought a fixer-upper, because we love to work on houses, so the mortgage is within our budget.
One of the biggest things that many families don’t think about with school districts is that special needs children are serviced within their district. We didn’t think about it at the time we moved either, but now that our oldest has been diagnosed with Autism, we are so very glad to be here. Not only is our school district “ranking” excellent, their special services are one of the best in the nation. My daughter has had exemplary therapies and interventions, and we have been completely satisfied with the way she and her disability have been cared for there.
Me? I’d say go with the better school district, but try to find a house that needs work, if you like that kind of thing, or look nearer the edges of the district or in areas with older homes. Giving your children the best environment to learn is just too important. If I had to find services privately for my daughter, which I would feel like I had to do in a terrible school district, it would break us financially.
It’s an easy choice for me. I live in a small enough town that there are only two high schools to choose from, one public and one private. I don’t want to pay for private school (mostly because I don’t feel like the private school here is any better acedemically then the public school).
I went to a small school in a small town (30 people in my graduating class). I’m now an electrical engineer, so I’d say things worked out okay despite the quality of my school.
Wow wow wow. You folks are awesome! Excellent thoughtful responses so far this morning. I always worry when I post something that’s so far outside my own experience, but you guys always come through.
I would advise looking deeply at the schools you are choosing. I live in Texas, where schools are rated based primarily on test scores. I teach at our neighborhood school (one my children also attended) which is rated merely “acceptable” because of a complicated set of sub-scores. However, we also made a statewide list of outstanding schools because of the performance of some students on the same tests!
Visit the schools. Look for children’s work on display. Listen to how children are talked to — and how they are talked about. Attend a PTA meeting; try to determine how well the values of other parents fits with yours. (It need not be perfect, but you don’t want to be way out on the fringe.) Determine for yourself whether a school seems to meet your own family’s needs. Elementary school sets the tone for love of education. IMHO, it’s not worth having a child learn to read in kinder if the cost is drill-and-kill and hours of worksheets.
Then, make a choice that leaves your family with breathing room. You didn’t say whether yours is a 2-career household, but either way, having time and energy to spend at school and with your children is more valuable than most of what any school can offer in your absence.
“Education is not just about school. By living in a less expensive home, you will have more money to do the extras that educate children in a different way — think music lessons, trips to aquariums, zoos and museums, foreign travel, books, theatre tickets, etc. Not only will the quality time your family spends together doing all these things be invaluable, but the education the children will receive will be as well.”
Totally agree with this statement. I found that you can always find ways to work the system with schools to get your child the education they need. My son’s teacher told us he had dyslexia. We had him tested, not only did he not have dyslexia but he is gifted. Opened the doors to a bunch of new opportunities for him.
So if you find a good school district - even if it isn’t the best - you aren’t short-changing your kids. In fact you may be doing them a favor because you’ll have enough money to financially help them if they need tutoring or want to participate in special activities that might require money. You’ll not be working all the time to pay for the expensive school district and can be more involved in your kids’ school. There may be years where you get a bad teacher or principal, but those happen anywhere - you handle those on a year by year basis.
I, myself, am not from the best schools in my district. We were just a bunch of country kids with lower/middle class parents who were, at best, teachers or middle management. Few people at my school had money or role models at home that were doctors/lawyers/ higher ed. But with the advent of facebook I’ve been able to see how many of my friends have fared in life. We’ve done well - many, many post-graduate degrees - doctors, lawyers, PhD educators, pharmacists, MBAs and plenty of Master’s degrees. In other words it didn’t matter that were were in the “country bumpkin” end of our school district - we all did well - our parents saw to that.
I agree with commenter #8. A huge part of schooling (at least in elementary years) happens at home, whether directly (by parents teaching kids) or indirectly (by parents’ attitudes toward learning).
Creating an environment at home that fosters curiosity and openness to education is the most important thing a parent can do.
I attended a fairly weak elementary school (and a pretty weak high school for that matter) in a very rural area. We had a two room school with two teachers for eight grades and the amount of teacher-student time was very limited. But we were encouraged to read or write in our journals during any downtime, and my mother loved to see me reading at home.
I grew up to be a lifelong learner and reader, I did very well in a competitive college, got a master’s degree, and am happy with my ability to learn on my own.
The home is key: create an environment that encourages learning. School is what you make of it.
We bought a house in a decent school district and found that because of the number of children whose first language and language at home was not English, all the attention, focus and effort was placed on those kids and our kids who didn’t ‘need’ the extra effort missed out. We now pay just over $10,000 a year for private education for our two kids. The difference in their education and happiness makes it money well-spent, in our opinion. We were very happy with the public school our kids were in before we moved to this area, but frankly, we had paid the bucks to live in the best school district in the town, and yes, it was well worth it. Lesson learned for us, but none of the public schools in the town we currently live in our very good.
I can see J.D.’s point, but wow, things are a lot different now than when I was graduating high school and college. There is (I believe) much more competition now. I want to give my kids the tools to be successful in the same way my husband and are - we are not rich, but we also don’t have to worry when the furnace makes a funny noise. We are trying to educate our kids in so many different ways. School is only one piece of the equation. Working hard, not quitting even when something is tough, and learning to not spend every dime you have are some of the things that will make our kids most successful in life. Those very traits made it possible for us to put our kids in private school when my daughter had tears every day over the reading program (again, geared to ESL kids) without sufferening a quality of life for us due to financial strain over the tuition. We have choices, and that is EXACTLY what I want for my kids.
Based on my own personal experience, I would choose the better school and neighborhood every time. Yes, it is the more expensive choice because there are other factors at play. I’ve always found the quality of the educational plan and especially the teachers themselves to be far superior on the whole. Word gets out among the parents and the school justifiably becomes coveted. In turn, the surrounding neighborhood draws in people with stable income and the area retains its value far better than that with the substandard school district. This has been my experience.
I say this because I have been on both sides of this fence. I have lived at the beach (SoCal) and the schools that my kids were fortunate enough to attend at that time were excellent. The standard of teaching, and in particular the way in which the kids were treated with respect, still stands out in my mind. The neighborhood was expensive but the quality of life was far better than the area we had to move to next to follow a promotion. That area will remain forever etched in my memory as one of the biggest mistakes we ever made! The region at the time had been hard hit by recession, so the attitudes of the locals, the neighborhoods and the schools themselves all had a pall of poverty cast over them. The biggest shock, however, was the quality of the teachers and the educational plan. I never would’ve suspected that so many bad teachers could congregate in one school alone! My kids were immediately dumbed down by an insufficient curriculum, and the total lack of respect that the teachers displayed for the kids in this particular town resulted in me becoming a permanent fixture in the Dean’s office. Right from the getgo, I found myself trying to elevate complacency among people who were only there, for the most part, to draw a paycheck. I realize that my experience represents a polar extreme but I can tell you that the promotion turned out to be a scholastic disaster for my family.
I would advise that you thoroughly investigate both schools and both neighborhoods under consideration. Take a tour of the schools with both Principals, sit in on a couple of classes, observe the children at recess and, very importantly, observe the way in which the teachers interact with the children. Ask the local Sheriff department for crime stats on the neighborhoods under consideration and scan the net for other info. As a start, go to sites like greatschools.net for academic ratings and parent comments, and city-data.com for information/questions on the forum http://www.city-data.com/forum/
As for ‘home equity’, your home is not an investment. It is primarily a place to live and lay your head. Any home equity that you lost in the past was never your money to begin with unless you sold and cashed in. I would not use the potential of ‘home equity’ in making this decision but do bear in mind that the time to make money on a house is at the time you actually purchase it. That means doing your research, looking for a bargain and not overpaying.
We bought a modest home in a pretty good district. We could have stretched our house-buying budget to the max and bought a house in an even “better” district just 5 miles north, but it would have meant not having any money at all for any extras. And this was before we had kids!
One thing that I don’t think was really mentioned above was that *districts can change*. A district with a so-so tax base might be struggling to make ends meet as a result of the recession - so extra programs get cut and never return. OTOH, I have friends in Chicago’s outlying ‘burbs who have seen the population explode in the last 10-15 years - with that means much better districts because you have more citizens (and businesses).
If you live in a more modest home in a decent district, you will probably have more income for the extras to help your child - music lessons, tutoring, and so on.
When I was growing up my family went from working/lower middle class to upper middle class. We moved from the city (which during those times was not considered a desirable location) to a suburb specifically picked because it had good public schools. We started out in a duplex on the edge of the district, and then moved to another house as times got better. I remember my mom telling me, buy the smallest house in the best neighborhood, and alot of what she was referring to was school district. So I am a supporter of trying to get in the best public school you can for your kids. It’s not just a matter of education (though that helps: our school has resources such as an AIG program, exceptional kids program, also arts, music, gardening program, fields trips, with highly involved teachers and parents), but also the peer group, with a higher expectation of behavior and performance. I’m personally not a fan of private schools (seem elitist to me), but I understand that’s a personal choice.
Another thing I heard another parent say, is that there are some kids who will succeed no matter where they are. But the majority of kids are helped or hindered by their (academic) environment.
@Sean (#11)
“So what we’ve chosen to do is to pursue the “gifted” options available through our school district”
How does one “choose” to put your kid in the gifted programs? Aren’t the pupils for those programs selected based on testing and merit?
My wife and I are in the same sort of process now as well. The one thing that is pushing us towards the better school district is my own childhood.
My parents did just as many suggest here. They took me to the library, fueled my intellectual curiosity, gave me experiences, all of that. My mom is a teacher who has one numerous teacher of the year awards at the state level, so the quality of at-home education was probably much higher than average too.
Because my parent’s were just solid middle class, I went to ok schools. The problem was that not very many children were being pushed and guided like I was and academic expectations were much lower. I figured out very early that I didn’t have to work very hard to have the best grades in my classes. Combine that with a bit of “smart people are nerds” attitude at the schools I attended and I never really worked throughout high school since there was never much challenge. And I was still the valedictorian.
I got into a very good college, but had crappy study habits and work ethic when it came to school and did pretty meh in undergrad. As a result when I returned to grad school, even though my work experience, grad school entrance exam tests etc… were excellent, my mediocre undergrad GPA kept me out of the best grad programs. I ended up doing great in the grad program, but I always kinda wished I had gone to more challenging schools as an adolescent, so that I would have been in the right frame of mind in undergrad.
I guess my point is that the schools don’t need to be the best but kids need to be challenged. We are looking for areas that have plenty of well-educated parents that are more involved with their kids like we are so that our children’s peers will be coming from the same background as they are. We feel like this sort of environment, at least “good” schools, our efforts, and factoring in our own kids abilities will provide the best opportunity for our kids since it seems like focusing on any one aspect is too myopic
What RMoM says is also true, it can be a good financial decision as well. Though this is only from personal experience, houses in good school districts hold and increase their value more than houses in districts with not-so good schools. It’s all about demand. This is going on in our current neighborhood, with bidding wars and tear downs because it is a relatively small area.
The school your child goes to is very important. I would not have necessarily believed that if I hadn’t seen it for myself.
Our first grader, who is a little genius, was blessed enough to have a private daycare provider who spent a good portion of time teaching the children. She then went to kindergarten and had a great teacher. She blossomed.
This year, she’s stagnating and in some areas moving backwards. Homework has gone from being something she loved to do to pulling teeth. It is now hard for her because she isn’t getting the tools she needs to complete the homework and they are dumping *way* too much homework on her.
It is certainly not anything we are doing. I am a stay-at-home parent and we are very involved in her academic life. We also spend some of our time educating her ourselves and giving her access to additional programs. She picks up and retains all of that without problems.
We’ve narrowed it down to two things:
1. She’s not getting what she needs from the teacher. My daughter wants to learn, but she’s not getting the guidance she needs during school hours. We can’t do anything about that and our daughter certainly can’t either. The teacher is, frankly, not very good.
2. She’s not getting what she needs from the school. The principal is *excellent* at dealing with kids who need extra help, but as Karen noted above, that means other kids (including mine) aren’t getting what they need. And otherwise the principal is terrible, lacking leadership and administrative skills.
We are fortunate in that our child is in a magnet program. We can pull her out (and plan on it) at any time and send her to a school with a great reputation that is actually closer to our house. We are also blessed with an income that allows us to send her to a private school of our choosing, which we are also considering.
So my advice, based on my (admittedly limited) experience is to make sure you retain the ability to change your child’s school. Even a good school may not be a good fit with your child. You don’t want to be locked into a school that is not working for your child regardless of reputation.
My wife and I are facing a similar decision as our 3 year old edges toward school age and our son-to-be edges toward birth.
We currently live in a neighborhood that is charitably described as “the hood”. It is so ludicrously economical. Our mortgage is less than a lot of folks’ car payments.
We know we don’t want to send our children to the schools here. And that’s not so much due to the quality of education as the environment we would be putting him in. People around here throw their trash on the ground, and I think it’s a safe bet that they treat their schools with the same level of reverence. There are certainly good people here who want the best for their kids but simply can’t afford to move. We can though, and we will.
I think the way we will approach it is to get into a public school that is “ok”. It doesn’t need to be the best in the state. It just needs to be a good environment where he can learn the basics and not be immersed in a negative culture.
I tend to think elementary and middle school are not as crucial for schooling. Kids just need a good environment to learn some good habits. I just want to make sure they aren’t surrounded by kids who will make fun of them for learning.
We hope that by the time they are high-school aged, we can afford to send them to a good private school. I feel that those last four years are much more important to their success in college and beyond. It is worth it, if it is better than public school.
I think the key question here is what is truly best for your children (within the reasonable constraints of your economic situation). Don’t confuse that with what *looks best* for your child (i.e. that school that all the best families send their kids to that costs 20 times whatever increased educational value it provides). If you have to choose between paying for the very best primary education and paying for your kid to go to the college of his choice and come out without any student loan debt…. I think the latter wins out by far.
My kids are going to whichever school is closest to our house.
Rent in the better district for a couple of years. You can build up your cash for a larger downpayment when prices stabilize and get a better feel for what is really going on with the schools.
I 100% agree with #27. If you’re not sure about the school quality of the “solid” school– rent first! Why buy right away?
This is actually what my parents did– we rented a duplex in the second best school district for 2 years, and they were satisfied with the difference between the lower priced Lincoln and higher priced Jefferson elementary, so they eventually bought in the Lincoln district area. Turns out that Lincoln had a small handful of the best teachers in the district (and had a lot of high school teachers’ kids going), even if Jefferson was overall better, so the difference between the two wasn’t huge. And yes, lots of outside school supplementation.
On the other hand, I could see the difference between two districts being huge. There’s no real way to know until you’ve experienced it for yourself. You may even decide that the public schools are so bad that it’s worth moving to an even less expensive district and private schooling. The high school wasn’t so great (only one high school in the town), so my sister and I both ended up going to private schools out of town. The switch in my sister when going to a private school was amazing– she’s the kind of person who does the least amount of effort to get an A, and that amount of effort was a LOT higher at Catholic school. She became a totally different, more interesting, person. Sophomore year all of her former middle school friends from the public school were suspended for underage drinking and getting drunk on a high school field trip.
Finally: Note that being in the best school district also means that the asset you’re buying is worth more upon resale (unless they change the school lines). So buying in the best district isn’t totally throwing away your money. You will recoup some if you’re still in the best district later. (We bought before our son was born and our school district has changed 2x already– he’s only 3. We’re sending him to a Montessori kindergarten so we have a couple more years to think about all this.)
p.s. Although parents are important, it is a fallacy to point at them as if they are the only thing, as might be concluded from the highlighted post. Peer effects have been consistently shown to influence student learning in economic research. Teachers (there was just a NY Times article last weekend on this summarizing the research on teaching) can have a huge impact. So this is a very important question– parents are not the only thing.
You said it was a “solid” school district. Be involved parents, join the PTA, help your kids with their homework, know who their teachers are, know who your kids are. Having involved parents will do so much more than the difference between a “solid” and a “great” school.
I have to go with everyone else who has said the parents play a HUGE role in their kid’s education. If you aren’t able to personally help with homework (especially as they get into higher math and science, for example), then hire a tutor, but a dedicated teacher (regardless of public, private, magnet, gifted, etc.) coupled with a parent that’s pushing, prodding, checking in, and generally making sure the kid KNOWS how important their education is will help the most in the long run.
One key thing I remember from growing up that REALLY motivated my sister and I was the fact that WE got to choose which restaurant our family would eat dinner at, if we got good grades on our report cards. That was a real treat, because we ALWAYS ate at home and to have that control felt AWESOME! Find what motivates your kid to learn and use it “against” them :-).
My parents raised my brother and me in a very expensive area so that we could go to one of the best public schools in the country. I could never thank them enough for it. A good education is everything.
Go for the more modest house/neighborhood. If you feel you need to, you can use the not-really-extra extra money to pay for enrichment activities, or for scaling back your work hours so that you can be home to supplement the in-school curriculum.
We have gone through a similar scenario. Both my husband and I attended private schools yet we have chosen to send our children to the public school in our district.
We feel that the education provided by our local public is adequate and even superior in many cases (gifted and talented programs) Also, having experienced local private schooling, we both know the high cost of keeping up with the Jones’. i.e. BMW’s and Mercedes in the student parking lot, school trips to Europe etc. We don’t want our children to think that kind of lifestyle is the norm.
Additionally, we didn’t move to attend the top rated public in the area. In part because we felt that there is more than a hint of snobbery at the school. And also because it has little to no racial and ethnic diversity. Even though another school out performs us on standardized tests, they do not provide the experiences of learning about and working with students of a different cultural background. I see this as a big disadvantage, especially given the changing demographics of the US.
I really feel that the biggest predictor of student success is parent involvement. While I would move to avoid a dangerous or poorly rated school, I would not stress my family finances to attend the highest rated school.
This one, I think, is simple. Choose the best school district you can find and find a house there you can afford. In most larger cities, there are plenty of moderate houses on the edges of excellent school districts.
We made such a decision just before our special needs kid entered preschool (private schools are a non-starter for many special needs kids). We flew to the new city before we moved, spent the week interviewing school districts and made a decision. Our experiences with the new school, as compared to people we know elsewhere, have been excellent. Scads of qualified teachers? Enough money to not be cutting any programs? Gotta love it.
Don’t get too worked up about your kid hanging out with the super-rich and getting spoiled, too. I have been pleased to see that the “rich neighborhood” public school here has a great diversity, since the people who are so rich as to be weird send their kids to the local day school anyway. Or maybe to school in Switzerland for all I know. So the classes are filled with other kids of parents mostly doing what we are - enjoying our moderate houses in an excellent school district while the mansions pay enough takes to keep the district in good financial health. These are other parents who also care about their school and their kid’s education, so parent involvement is high.
To boot, since the value of many of the houses in our district is so crazy high (think rock stars and business tycoons), the property tax percentage we pay is actually less than in the neighboring school district, which has more moderate houses (but is still ranked highly in the state, just not nationally.) So we are actually paying less for better schools than folks who live just a few blocks away, same general neighborhood, just on the other side of the district line.
Once your kids have actually been in school for a few years, I think you will appreciate the quality school district a LOT more than that extra media room in the fancier house, or whatever you think you’ll love in the other place. It won’t make up for the massive frustration you will feel when your school, where you kid goes _all day_, isn’t doing a job you are happy with.
I don’t have children, and I’m not married, so I won’t be having children any time soon. But, every now and then my boyfriend and I speculate on what we’d do if got married and started a family. Most of it revolves around cutting back on regular expenses. But, if we had a deeper discussion, I’m sure we’d talk about education.
I do understand the obessession with finding good schools for your children. However, I do believe the most prestigious school isn’t necessarily the best school for every child. Having said that, it seems that overall quality in public education has become more uneven than when I was a child. Also, I was pulled out of the public schools when I was 11 because after grade 5 my mom felt the public weren’t very good. So from 6th grade on I went to private schools. In the back of mind, there’s a concern I may need to do something similar for my children. Luckily, in my area there’s a charter school that seems very good, and the public school seems more than adequate, so I will likely have some free options K-12, allowing me to save for college.
I will say, though, that if we had to move, I’d consider compromising by living in a good district as opposed to the best. I don’t think killing your budget to live in the top district is necessary if you can afford to live a very good district. It’s the difference between taking on massive debt to go to Harvard versus a public ivy in my mind.
We picked a house that we loved in a not so good school district. We knew that we had other options as to where we could send our kids due to local school board policies and eventually chose to home school. As a teacher, as long as the school is safe with qualified teachers, I would say that what your child gets out of school will be more about your child’s interest in school and your interest in their education rather than the school that they attend.
I agree with all those who say the school isn’t the most important thing.
As a teacher, the kids who excel in school are the ones who have parents who read to them, who help them with their homework, who take them on trips to places near and far so they can learn about the world in the world and not just out of books.
Also, I knew married-with-babies people who had moved to a particular town because the schools were excellent. By the time the kids were in middle school, the school system had declined.
I vote for the less expensive house. Spend money on taking the kids places, and be involved in the goings-on at school.
Live where you want. the mad scramble of parents to find a house in the best school district is folly since PARENTAL guidance is the primary determinant for school success. Your kid will get the same SAT score in distrit A as district B. What makes District A appear ‘better’ is the scores of the kids who go there. Your kid wont’ get better scores by osmosis sitting next to a bright kid: he will make his own future.
Two words for helping to ensure that kids get a good education - Parental Involvement.
My kids have attended public schools in what’s probably rated as a “mediocre” district. But in nearly every case, I have found that teachers have been responsive to e-mails and phone calls. Even after working hours. Each year kids from our district go on to Ivy League schools, but there are also kids who don’t do well. Keep up the communication with your kids and with their teachers and they’ll be fine.
Everyone above has said true things. But no one has noted that the right decision depends just as much on the child as on the school district. Some kids will succeed no matter where they are; others will need special services. Other “smart” children become bored and lazy if they attend school in a school where the teachers are unable to challenge them. As Tim said in comment #31:
“The schools you go to will mold you as a future person. If you don’t have to try for 12 years and you are on the honor roll every term, you learn bad habits that stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me.”
I second this. I attended school in a mixed-income, mixed race district that definitely had good aspects to it (I learned how to get along with all different sorts of people, for example) but just did not challenge me academically. My minimum effort was enough to get As and Bs in everything.
Thank goodness my parents sent me to university in Canada. Suddenly plunged into a sea of students who had had far more comprehensive educations and knew how to work hard, I was forced to get my act together.
Still, my adult life has been a struggle against laziness and I wish I had learned a better work ethic as a young student.
See post 34, exactly what I wanted to say.
Buying into a lower rent area does NOT guarantee anything about what people will be providing to their kids. You can not avoid the latest greatest thing by neighborhood. We routinely see 10 year olds with cell phones and it crosses all income ranges. People max stuff out on credit cards and you never really know who has money. IMO.
I went to a thoroughly mediocre public school (I’m from a small town and it was the only one available) and I think I turned out just fine. My parents fostered a lot of intellectual curiosity and exploration (they’re both professors). We went to the public library all the time, did the montessori technique at home, enrolled in gifted and talented summer programs, etc. I went to a stellar undergraduate university and felt fully prepared. Now I’m at a top-tier graduate school. I think that if you’re willing to supplement the schoolwork and be involved, your kids will turn out just fine.
Seven years ago my husband I moved from an urban environment with mediocre schools to a much better district as the eldest of our 4 children started school. We did not choose the priciest, and supposedly best district in our area because it was HUGE, especially the high schools, which have literally thousands of students in each school. We reviewed grad rates and school programs and found a district with a good variety of programs, music, art, forward thinking education, high tech, with a graduating class of about 300 per grade. We love it. Parental involvement gets you everywhere in education. No matter where your child attends school, no one will care for his education more than you. You must be an advocate for your child at all stages in order for them to get what they need.
First, I offer the disclaimer that as a parent, you will screw up your kids no matter what you do.
That said, as a Realtor, it is usually true that the homes in the better school districts sell for higher prices and more quickly, so that is something to consider for down the line.
As a mom, I agree with the poster who said to look at the high school more than the elementary school, but usually it is a feeder pattern that the elementary will be good if it feeds into the good high school.
I have tried it all with my oldest, from Montessori to private to public, and I believe that you should put your kids in the best school that you possibly can. Especially in public education, the schools in the better school districts generally have better funding, are safer, have better teachers, and have kids whose families value education. Not every kid will respond to a particular system of education (my daughter was a disaster in Montessori), but the best public schools have the widest range of options for each kid - gifted, magnet, special needs, extracurricular activities. At a really good public school, if your kid is not so great academically but excellent in arts, they can have an opportunity to excel that will boost their confidence and lead to more success overall. But no matter which school you choose, you have to be involved as much as you can.
My parents sacrificed a lot to put me through private school b/c the public schools in our area were terrible, and I was able to go to an excellent college and have a great career. It has given me the best advantage in life that I could have ever asked for.
I have two children from a previous marriage. After the divorce my ex-wife moved to a different town. My kids would have had to move out of the excellent school district in which we lived as a family if I had not stayed in town. (We had joint custody.) After the divorce I could not really afford another house in our town, but I was lucky enough that I found a house for rent that fit very well into my budget. So, my choice to stay in town was not so much by design but rather by coincidence if there is such a thing. It was an unusual combination of circumstances that allowed me to stay in town until my older children finished high school in an excellent district. Nevertheless, I lived in a house whose standard probably ranked in the bottom 10% of our town, but this was well worth the sacrifice to me.
Like JD, I am childfree, but I’d like to offer my thoughts from the perspective of one whose parents sacrificed to put her in private schools. I cannot agree enough with the first commenter concerning his parents’ choices and how they affected him. Please, please, please consider the socioeconomic peer group issue.
It was not fun being the “poor kid.” It also gave me such a skewed view of the world. My parents were middle class, not poor; they owned their own home and had 2 cars, and we took vacations, albeit modest ones, every year. They did not, however, buy me a new BMW for my 15th b-day, as did the parents of one of my classmates. For a while I thought that the girls who received new cars as b-day or Christmas presents were the norm and I was the freak because I didn’t get one. Consider whether you want your kids to have similar beliefs.
I received an excellent education, but I hated school until I got to college because it was so miserable to be the odd one out. This feeling of being the freak profoundly shaped my sense of self and world view, and I still carry it around at the age of 36. I don’t think I’ll ever really shake it. Also, looking back, I could have gotten an even better education at the public magnet school in my city, and I would’ve been a lot happier, too.
Finally, if the private schools are expensive, can you also save for college and for your own old age? I know people who are making great sacrifices to spend $20K and up for their children’s grade school and high school educations, but those children have no college funds, and those parents have no retirement funds. Is ABC private school really worth having no retirement savings and thus potentially becoming a burden on your children in your dotage?
Good luck with your choice. I know it’s not easy, and I don’t envy you for having it.
While I agree that schools are very important, I think the way we currently ‘grade’ schools sucks. We moved from a district that was considered poor, because of low test scores, to one that is considered shining. However, what we found was that the other school wasn’t willing to work with us *unless* they felt the kids’ difficulties would bring down their standardized test average. For a child with special educational needs that translate into educational delay, I’m told, this is great– they will do whatever they have to in order to help that kid. On the other hand, the program for kids who aren’t delayed is… unhelpful.
Also be aware that elementary schools in the same district may vary wildly.
But another factor, if it’s important to you: what is the neighborhood like? Can children be outside without someone calling the cops? Is it walkable? Is it outdoor-child-friendly? Or will your neighbors have a cow if you let your child walk around the block? If that’s what you want, go for it.
I’m planning staying in our school district, despite struggles over our daughter’s education, because a) she’d hate to move again, but more importantly b) the town is friendly for children to be outside; children over age 7 are allowed in the town library by themselves, and middle schoolers routinely walk to school and back. That’s important to me.
I have bought three homes, sold two. My experience is that the value of the property is directly proportional to the quality of the schools. Buying the least expensive home in the best school district is, in my opinion, the best financial decision.
I have four daughters, three in college and one in high school. We have wrestled with this question.
Kids react to parents much more so than the school all the way through high school. Unfortunately, they react much more to friends than anything else once they hit high school. How does this affect the questioner?
Parents can overcome any deficiencies in schools with attention to the children at home, on vacations, and on weekends. It’s all a trade in the end, but we chose to trade our time (with the kids) for our money (buying in a better school area.
When it really gets down to it, we all “pay” for private school or a better school. You can live in a dump and pay for private school (money outlay). You can “buy up” into a better school (money outlay). Or you can buy a sensible house, save money, and “pay” by spending time with the kids, thus providing them the development they need.
We chose the latter, and have been successful. I wish you well.
We do not have kids, but my husband is a teacher for a mid-level school district. Honestly, the most intelligent kids are the ones that choose to learn. The schools all have to teach the same basic stuff. My husband’s most advanced kids are the ones that want to learn…the ones that choose to goof off won’t learn anywhere.
I’d pick the less expensive house and the good night’s sleep that an emergency fund will allow.
Go for an inexpensive house and a great private school. You didn’t even seem to consider private schools as an option, but I would say private schools are hands-down the best place to look if you want your kids to get a consistently stellar education in a nurturing environment.
Anybody can do it. My parents made under $60K (Dad worked, Mom stayed at home), gave away 10% of their income, and were able to send me to the best school in our area (a Christian preparatory school) at nearly $6K/year, plus extracurricular expenses, for 7 years. They wanted me to have an environment where I would be free to learn without the drama of drugs/bullying/underage sex/conspicuous consumption/etc. and where administrators and teachers shared their high moral and academic standards. I feel like I learned more interesting things, and learned them better, at that preparatory school than I did at the top-tier public research university when I earned my BS and MS. They were amazing years, and I’m grateful to my parents for recognizing how that school could develop my gifts and making it a priority for me to be there.
The years in primary education are such important years for your children. It sounds like you really want to be thoughtful and flexible so you can give them the best you can afford. Definitely consider the wealth of options that exist with private education. Best wishes!
Father of 3 here.
I grew up in a town of 6,000 people. My high school offered only 3 AP classes, and only one language class. I turned out just fine despite the lack of opportunities. All of my classmates who applied themselves have also landed on their feet.
While looking at places to buy a home (in a big city) we wanted somewhere where the schools and the neighborhoods were both safe. I am confident that if we give our kids a good learning environment and encourage a love of learning they’ll be fine too.
I agree with you completely JD - a “good” school will have some great teachers, some not so good - so will a “great” school - sometimes your children will flourish with a teaching style - some years, not so much.
My philosophy has been that public education is not about the end all be all of educating your child - as a parent you have to enrich it, take trips to the library, the zoo, the gardens, etc. if you feel something is missing - be part of a community to make it better. Join the PTA and rally for new playground equipment, or microscopes, or whatever.
YOU, as a parent, being part of the equation is what will make a monger lasting impression and will show your child value.
One last thought - a “good” school in a neighborhood that allows you to provide other opportunities, that lessens the need to “be like Suzie”, and that might have more cultural diversity is wayyyyyy more important than your other option. Go with what works for your family - the whole family.
A solid school is 90+% of the best school. And you can put your resources and effort into raising an inquisitive child with a love of learning and various experiences, MORE than making up for that last 10%.
This is not a sports team here where the team with the best wins the final tournament, and the team with 90% of the best is forgotten about. Housing in the best school’s district are already bid up by parents who wouldn’t believe in my first paragraph.
I don’t have any kids yet, but my first is on the way!
Mother of two recent college grads here, 2006 and 2009. It was dumb luck and a modest income that landed us in this lower middle class, blue collar neighborhood with award winning public schools. The district put kids first, was fiscally responsible and made sure all the kids had the skills and opportunity to go to college. They made every effort to involve the parents in their children’s education. For example when it came to understanding the How To on money for college they encouraged us to attend workshops given by our US Rep and Financial Admins from the university and the community college. My youngest son had all of his first college semester done before he graduated High School. That saved us a lot of money. Shop around, we’re out here.
We chose a very modest neighborhood with a smaller home and sent our kids to private religious (Catholic) schools because the education/religious aspect was far more important to us for our children. The public schools were good, but since neither my husband nor I had ever attended a public school, it was not really a consideration.
Funny enough, our very modest little home in So Cal that we purchased at $120,000 in 1987 turned into a $630,000 sale when we moved to another state for retirement (Oregon) in 2005. Who knew? Today, that same home has been foreclosed upon twice since we sold it (we still have extensive family in the area and friends in the neighborhood) but recently sold at auction for $350,000.
Of course parents play a huge role, but these kids have the same parents no matter what school they go to.
It seems like everyone is defining ‘better’ as ‘higher socioeconomic demographic’ and that isn’t true at all. In Albuquerque, NM the HS graduation rate hangs around 50%. The best school is at ~80% and the second best school is 70-75%. So how do you think the worst school is doing? On the flip side Provo, UT the graduation rate is in the 90% range. I would probably be more comfortable sending my kid to the worst school in Provo than the best in ABQ.
And it is HS where your child is most likely to be influenced by peer groups. They don’t have to fall in with the chess club, but I know more parents that deal with truancy and drug problems at the not so hot schools. The uninvolved parents have the bigger problems, but the involved parents have their share.
It also depends on your kid. If your kid is MMH (mildly mentally handicapped) you aren’t going to care how many AP courses are offered. If your kid is on the track team you aren’t going to wonder about the quality (or existence) of occupational therapists. The HS I went to was FABULOUS for middle of the road students. It was small and safe, had no gang problems and fair teachers most of which worked hard and got personally involved with their students. It was a bad fit for me as I was a high performer and actually had to petition the superintendent to take a math class my senior year because there wasn’t anything available. I would have done better at the school in the next town with AP classes and a university tie in.
On the flip side my husband went to the perfect school for him. He is a large man and was drafted for the basketball and football teams (one of the best sport schools in the state). His coaches were the ones to encourage him academically and teach him how to work hard. At a school without a strong sports program he wouldn’t have worked as hard or developed the confidence he needed to succeed in life, at least not as early.
I think you can supplement educational deficiencies in elementary school, but when your kids hit junior high and high school I think you really need to consider what makes a good school. You shouldn’t send yourself to the poorhouse or beat yourself up if you can’t afford the best, but the school DOES matter, maybe not as much as other factors, but look at the statistics coming from DC’s voucher program. The kids have the same parents no matter the school, but the better schools have improved their performance.
Oh, and for those of you who advocate private school over moving to a nicer area, do the math. Sometimes it makes sense, but if you put tuition toward your house for four years (per kid) instead of tuition, how much more house would you have? Could you afford the nicer house in the better school district? $10k tuition four years, two kids, is $80k. That IS the price of a house in many areas.
I’m not a parent, but I think that you should go with the less expensive, safer alternative so you can save up the kids’ college funds. I went to over 8 different schools before I hit high school, and I still managed to get a university degree. My sister was in the same boat, and now she is going on to get her masters degree at one of the world’s best universities.
I am inclined to agree with J.D. You also have to consider that each school will have its own problems. Make homework a priority. Get your kids interested in learning. Hire a tutor if the grades start to slip. Take the kids to museums. Teach them things. At one point I was in what could be best described as a hick school, but my parents always made learning a priority. Only a handful of my peers ended up going to university, but I did.
Buy the less expensive house. Your kids are just starting school. You’ll have hours ech day to “enrich” their experience. Grades K-3 are just to get them used to the idea of “school” and all that “school” means, to introduce numbers and letters, the concept that we are not alone on the planet, then basic math and reading. They don’t start integrating these things till 4th grade. By then you should have a much better handle on your kids, their characters, likes and dislikes, and the area. This should help you to make a more informed choice about whether or not to move.
I homeschooled all 3 of my kids, pre-K thru 12th. I know they are better off because of it. However, they are not math/science people and they are girls (which means that MY expectation of them is different, because I’d expect a boy to need to be prepared to support a family).
I feel like I could have submitted that question. We ended up opting for the modest home with a 15-year mortgage. However, we have drawn the line at the middle and high school in our current district. We will either move by the time our 6 year old gets to middle school (we also have a 2 month old so our “education investment” of moving should technically double??) or I will drive them to an out of zone school (bus service not provided). Private school is not a financial option for us.
Keep in mind, I recently left my $50K job to stay at home (temporarily??). This was in the interest of family sanity and quality time spent together in the evenings. This was a tough financial move, but worth it when my husband can spend his time talking to us at the dinner table and reading bedtime stories instead of helping pick up the kids from daycare, cooking dinner, doing laundry, etc. when he walks in the door.
We also felt living in the modest home will enable us to help our children with college, cars, etc. Our neighbors probably make about the same amount of money (now that I’m not working) so the majority of the neighborhood children are not spoiled. However, I think you’ll find consumer-driven families in every neighborhood as long as there are credit cards.
There are times when I feel very guilty that I went to such fabulous public schools (as did my husband) and our children will go to mediocre-good schools at best. I want them to have more than I did, not less. But his job dictates we live in a state with poor public education and private schools cost the same as college so they are not an option.
This is from my mom - 40yrs as teacher/principle:
-Home School: DONT. Worst thing you can possibly do to your kids (besides giving them a silly name). They might get great test scores, but their social skills will be so far behind that they will struggle to make it in any people skills jobs - Senior Management being one!
-Choice of School is almost irrelevant (mainly): If kids are in all but top or bottom 5% of kids then they will hang out with other kids who are about the same level of intellect and income. If you kill yourself to get your kid to the most expensive school to get the kids to hang out with the ‘right’ people then it will not work - they will hang out with the other kids who have parents killing themselves to get them into that school.
-Better to be a big fish in a little pond than little fish in big pond: A slightly above average kid (probably most of ‘our’ kids) will be better prepared for life being a well above average kid in an averages school than below average kid in a high achieving school in terms of leadership, self esteem and confidence.
-The less travel time the better: It gives them less time to do the things that help them grow - hobbies, sport, music, read, explore, just being a kid.
-Parent over school: 1 hour a day with a parent is infinitely better than never seeing a parent because they are out working to afford to send the kid to the best school.
-Parents: Kids with parents who help the kids learn turn out to be better students.
Be careful when defining the “Best” schools. We have two children, and we’ve toured a lot of schools. Two of the most popular schools in the area, often singled out as the “Best” schools, were not the right fit for our family. One was a private preschool and kindergarten program. The second was a popular public school, grades 1-5, that required a lottery process to attend. Tour the schools and make an informed decision based on your children’s needs.
P.S. I agree with J.D. here too!
Wow JD it’s just now 10:00 CST and you already have more than 80 responses!
My thoughts as a teacher in a lower income school:
My wife and I both teach elementary school in the same building(Me in 4th grade and my wife in kindergarten.) Our school has the most ESL (English as second language),and lowest income households in the district.
Many commenters are correct in their response the parents have the potential to have more of an affect on the child’s success than the school. While my wife and I have the option to send our children to any elementary school in the district, we chose to have them in the same building as us. Why? Because I want my children to learn and be exposed to kids of different backgrounds. (Even the kids from troubled homes.) They aren’t going to grow up in a cookie cutter society all of their life. Good teachers and administrators can dictate the learning atmosphere of their building regardless of the communities socio-economic status.
In many districts with low performing schools, some of the most effective teachers are moved to the lowest performing schools to help improve the education setting and test performance. While, I don’t think that is the case in the school I teach in, I feel every teacher I work with is sincerely interested in the success of the students and providing the best learning environment possible.
My advice, go to the local schools of whatever communities you are considering moving to. Tour the building, speak with the administrators and parents of kids in that building. If you and your child are determined to be successful in your child’s education, chances are they will be.
Personally, I’ve never agreed with the idea of “house as an investment.” When we buy, I will treat it as a cost expense, not an investment. That way, when it’s time to move on, the return is butter and I can’t be disappointed if it’s not as much as I put in. If I were to sell my car, I wouldn’t dream of getting back as much as I paid.
In my experience, there isn’t a huge difference between a good school and a great school. A good school is still going to have the resources for a motivated student to excel and nothing in a great school is going to propel a mediocre student… unless they happen to find their passion. However, I don’t think that stumbling upon your passion is more likely or easier at a great school than a good school.
That said, if your kid has shown an aptitude for a certain discipline such as STEM, it would be a good idea to live where they could eventually go to a (in this case) STEM school. But the district may let your student simply transfer to that school instead of you moving to that neighborhood; I’m not sure how those things work exactly.
I posed a similar question a while back on ask.metafilter and got some interesting responses:
http://ask.metafilter.com/122604/What-happens-if-my-kids-think-theyre-poor-when-theyre-really-not
I can’t remember which book , but one by Malcolm Gladwell (possibly Outliers) explains how the only thing that actually makes a difference when it comes to a school is :Is it safe?
Accounting for all other differences, as long as the school is safe to attend, then the child will fulfill his or her own potential. The child will actually learn less if they are stressed out over time, and if you are stressed about money, that will have a negative effect on your children.
I think a more modest house that you can afford is a better choice, because it will help provide choices for your children in the future. If the school district is average, that’s okay. Without the strangle hold of a huge mortgage, you could afford things like a tutor if they have trouble with a subject. Private lessons if they start to excel in music or art. Student exchange programs when they are in high school.
My husband and I are going to apply to charter schools for our son when he is old enough. However, the reason we are doing this is because our schools are far below average. Seventy percent of the children in the district speak no English when they enter district. Math, science and English proficiencies remain below thirty percent through all grades in our local elementary school. A charter school is a low-to-no cost way to get into a better school in the area.
School is just one part of education. It is important but it is not everything. I would not worry too much about that.
I think that one good way to “invest” in your children education is to be more involve in their life. It may be easier to do if your are not too worry about money.
I would recommend buying the more modest house. It will give you greater financial flexibility in the future (ie private school, college, etc) and allow you to spend more time with your kids.
I would also suggest closely following the news from both school districts. You may find that one school or school district offers better services for YOUR children. I attended an under performing public high school, that had tons of AP classes (which I took), and a state championship track program (which I ran in). It didn’t serve every child equally well; many of friends switched to private schools. But it worked for me and my sisters, and allowed our parents to put money towards their retirement and our college educations.
You have to put into the equation the quality of school in the value of real estate. As a parent you have to weigh pros and cons and decide what is financially prudent. The advice above about renting sounds like a reasonable plan for this example.
I gave up some perks to live next to the school that I do but I didnt mortgage our family’s future.
I want to point out GeekBrad’s comment (#60) about his taxes being lower in the “more expensive” town. My friends constantly assume that we must be paying enormous property taxes, but because of the wide scale in our town, we actually pay less for better schools than we would be paying for a similarly priced home in neighboring communities.
Secondly, for everyone commenting that the parents are the biggest part of the equation, it may be true that good parenting can help overcome shortcomings of school systems, but you should see what good parenting AND a good school system can do. In our case, instead of having to hire lawyers and advocates to fight to get the system to even acknowledge that our son *has* an issue, we are already planning out a roadmap so that we can all help him overcome his challenges as a *team*. Believe me, that makes a HUGE difference in terms of the possible outcomes for my son’s challenges. For the parents who don’t have special circumstances, they find that at every level of ability, there are just a lot more options to help their kids grow than many of the districts around us.
Cheaper house and private school.
Short version of my story - we bought a great house, pool, land in a questionable area - never thinking of having kids. 9/11 happened and I changed my mind about having kids - we had 2 in two years. We can not use the school district in Los Angeles. We use a small private religious school, down the block and WE LOVE IT - even though we are not particularly religious, you can’t argue with values like: Respect, Kindness, etc..
Having said that - I personally would NEVER buy in this kind of neighborhood - again - we have been “gifted” with a nightmare situation of Section 8 folks next door. This particular family allows up to 20 squatters at a time, had a pack of pitbulls, blasts music to shake our house, throws trash (becuase they won’t pay for waste)into neighbors backyards AND parks on our lawn. I am positive not all Section 8 housing is like this. BUT it has been enough of a bad experience to never buy where it could happen again.
I think the likeliness of this happening in $1.4M community is probably a lot less. Although bad neighbors can happen anywhere - at lower price points, you are going to have a higher percentage.
When we purchased our house, we moved into one of the best school districts. It is not the one with the best test scores in the city (that one is in the wealthy neighborhood and has a lot of drug problems). But this district is one of the oldest in our city and has solid schools with little problems and better diversity. We felt this district was the best for our daughter.
The universe laughed, though, and our daughter tested gifted. She was placed in the full-time gifted school, which is 30 minutes away from our home, and within walking distance of the condo we sold to move into the house. Go figure.
We wouldn’t move back to the old neighborhood, though, because we like where we are. We have a city park next door, and the neighbors have kids as well. It truly is a neighborhood in a way the old place was not.
My daughter is OK with the extra bus time, and she will eventually transfer into our local high school. We keep connections with local friends through play dates and Girl Scouts, and listen to the experience of neighbors who have had children follow the same path.