Ask the Readers: How Do You Figure the Calculus of Kids?
Published on - March 12th, 2010 (by J.D. Roth) I keep intending to retain “ask the readers” as a regular Friday feature — and I keep failing. You folks send me tons of great questions, and I’d love to share more of them. This week, for example, Lisa wrote with the following.
“Having kids has made spending choices much more emotional and complex,” she says. “You can’t always calculate a return on investment.” Here’s her predicament:
My husband and I are looking to purchase a home in our new city, but we’re having trouble deciding where our values, finances, and priorities intersect.
We have young children, one who will start public school this year. We’re considering buying a home in a modest neighborhood so we could have a house/car replacement fund available, rather than taking all of the down payment money and putting it in a “better” house. The schools in the neighborhood are solid, but not the best in the district. If we buy in this smaller, less fancy area, we can choose a 15-year mortgage, minimize our overall house expenses, and have more money for all of life’s priorities. But, it feels like we’re “cheaping out” on the kids.
To compound our “analysis paralysis”, we lost a fair amount of equity when we had to sell our house to transfer out of state, so we’re feeling less than enamored with the idea of putting money that is currently liquid into a building that isn’t guaranteed to hold its value, much less appreciate. (We have no car/consumer debt, and we have a comfortable emergency fund.)
I think our family might feel more comfortable in a more modest neighborhood with more coupon-clipping parents and kids who don’t have the latest and greatest, but I also want my children to have a great education. Have other parents faced this battle, doing what’s best for the overall budget vs. doing what’s expected for our kids? We’d love to hear how it worked out for you.
I love questions like this. They’re a clear demonstration that personal finance isn’t only about the numbers; it involves a complex calculus of math, emotions, and dreams.
Most of the time, I can offer suggestions when people ask these sorts of questions. But when it comes to kids, I’m at a loss. Kris and I have chosen to remain childfree, and as a result, I’ve never had to wrestle with these sorts of sticky issues.
From a non-parent perspective, I admit that the obsession over which school a kid will attend seems…well, I don’t know how to put it in words that won’t make people angry. But I’ve watched friends and family go through mental and financial gyrations to get their kids into the right pre-schools, which boggles my mind. I’m a firm believer that education is more about the child than it is about the school. If a kid has been taught to love and value learning, she can thrive almost anywhere.
In other words, I’d urge Lisa to make her decision based on finances and not the school district. This may mean she needs to take a more active role in fostering her children’s intellectual curiosity, but that’s a good thing all the way around. But what do I know? As I say, I don’t have kids, and I don’t know what it’s like to actually face this decision. It’s one thing to say it and another to live it.
So, what do you parents say? How do you judge the trade-off between expenses and education? Is it worth paying more to live in a good school district? How does one make this sort of decision?
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My wife and I are facing a similar decision as our 3 year old edges toward school age and our son-to-be edges toward birth.
We currently live in a neighborhood that is charitably described as “the hood”. It is so ludicrously economical. Our mortgage is less than a lot of folks’ car payments.
We know we don’t want to send our children to the schools here. And that’s not so much due to the quality of education as the environment we would be putting him in. People around here throw their trash on the ground, and I think it’s a safe bet that they treat their schools with the same level of reverence. There are certainly good people here who want the best for their kids but simply can’t afford to move. We can though, and we will.
I think the way we will approach it is to get into a public school that is “ok”. It doesn’t need to be the best in the state. It just needs to be a good environment where he can learn the basics and not be immersed in a negative culture.
I tend to think elementary and middle school are not as crucial for schooling. Kids just need a good environment to learn some good habits. I just want to make sure they aren’t surrounded by kids who will make fun of them for learning.
We hope that by the time they are high-school aged, we can afford to send them to a good private school. I feel that those last four years are much more important to their success in college and beyond. It is worth it, if it is better than public school.
I think the key question here is what is truly best for your children (within the reasonable constraints of your economic situation). Don’t confuse that with what *looks best* for your child (i.e. that school that all the best families send their kids to that costs 20 times whatever increased educational value it provides). If you have to choose between paying for the very best primary education and paying for your kid to go to the college of his choice and come out without any student loan debt…. I think the latter wins out by far.
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My kids are going to whichever school is closest to our house.
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Rent in the better district for a couple of years. You can build up your cash for a larger downpayment when prices stabilize and get a better feel for what is really going on with the schools.
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I 100% agree with #27. If you’re not sure about the school quality of the “solid” school– rent first! Why buy right away?
This is actually what my parents did– we rented a duplex in the second best school district for 2 years, and they were satisfied with the difference between the lower priced Lincoln and higher priced Jefferson elementary, so they eventually bought in the Lincoln district area. Turns out that Lincoln had a small handful of the best teachers in the district (and had a lot of high school teachers’ kids going), even if Jefferson was overall better, so the difference between the two wasn’t huge. And yes, lots of outside school supplementation.
On the other hand, I could see the difference between two districts being huge. There’s no real way to know until you’ve experienced it for yourself. You may even decide that the public schools are so bad that it’s worth moving to an even less expensive district and private schooling. The high school wasn’t so great (only one high school in the town), so my sister and I both ended up going to private schools out of town. The switch in my sister when going to a private school was amazing– she’s the kind of person who does the least amount of effort to get an A, and that amount of effort was a LOT higher at Catholic school. She became a totally different, more interesting, person. Sophomore year all of her former middle school friends from the public school were suspended for underage drinking and getting drunk on a high school field trip.
Finally: Note that being in the best school district also means that the asset you’re buying is worth more upon resale (unless they change the school lines). So buying in the best district isn’t totally throwing away your money. You will recoup some if you’re still in the best district later. (We bought before our son was born and our school district has changed 2x already– he’s only 3. We’re sending him to a Montessori kindergarten so we have a couple more years to think about all this.)
p.s. Although parents are important, it is a fallacy to point at them as if they are the only thing, as might be concluded from the highlighted post. Peer effects have been consistently shown to influence student learning in economic research. Teachers (there was just a NY Times article last weekend on this summarizing the research on teaching) can have a huge impact. So this is a very important question– parents are not the only thing.
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You said it was a “solid” school district. Be involved parents, join the PTA, help your kids with their homework, know who their teachers are, know who your kids are. Having involved parents will do so much more than the difference between a “solid” and a “great” school.
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I have to go with everyone else who has said the parents play a HUGE role in their kid’s education. If you aren’t able to personally help with homework (especially as they get into higher math and science, for example), then hire a tutor, but a dedicated teacher (regardless of public, private, magnet, gifted, etc.) coupled with a parent that’s pushing, prodding, checking in, and generally making sure the kid KNOWS how important their education is will help the most in the long run.
One key thing I remember from growing up that REALLY motivated my sister and I was the fact that WE got to choose which restaurant our family would eat dinner at, if we got good grades on our report cards. That was a real treat, because we ALWAYS ate at home and to have that control felt AWESOME! Find what motivates your kid to learn and use it “against” them
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My parents raised my brother and me in a very expensive area so that we could go to one of the best public schools in the country. I could never thank them enough for it. A good education is everything.
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Go for the more modest house/neighborhood. If you feel you need to, you can use the not-really-extra extra money to pay for enrichment activities, or for scaling back your work hours so that you can be home to supplement the in-school curriculum.
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We have gone through a similar scenario. Both my husband and I attended private schools yet we have chosen to send our children to the public school in our district.
We feel that the education provided by our local public is adequate and even superior in many cases (gifted and talented programs) Also, having experienced local private schooling, we both know the high cost of keeping up with the Jones’. i.e. BMW’s and Mercedes in the student parking lot, school trips to Europe etc. We don’t want our children to think that kind of lifestyle is the norm.
Additionally, we didn’t move to attend the top rated public in the area. In part because we felt that there is more than a hint of snobbery at the school. And also because it has little to no racial and ethnic diversity. Even though another school out performs us on standardized tests, they do not provide the experiences of learning about and working with students of a different cultural background. I see this as a big disadvantage, especially given the changing demographics of the US.
I really feel that the biggest predictor of student success is parent involvement. While I would move to avoid a dangerous or poorly rated school, I would not stress my family finances to attend the highest rated school.
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This one, I think, is simple. Choose the best school district you can find and find a house there you can afford. In most larger cities, there are plenty of moderate houses on the edges of excellent school districts.
We made such a decision just before our special needs kid entered preschool (private schools are a non-starter for many special needs kids). We flew to the new city before we moved, spent the week interviewing school districts and made a decision. Our experiences with the new school, as compared to people we know elsewhere, have been excellent. Scads of qualified teachers? Enough money to not be cutting any programs? Gotta love it.
Don’t get too worked up about your kid hanging out with the super-rich and getting spoiled, too. I have been pleased to see that the “rich neighborhood” public school here has a great diversity, since the people who are so rich as to be weird send their kids to the local day school anyway. Or maybe to school in Switzerland for all I know. So the classes are filled with other kids of parents mostly doing what we are – enjoying our moderate houses in an excellent school district while the mansions pay enough takes to keep the district in good financial health. These are other parents who also care about their school and their kid’s education, so parent involvement is high.
To boot, since the value of many of the houses in our district is so crazy high (think rock stars and business tycoons), the property tax percentage we pay is actually less than in the neighboring school district, which has more moderate houses (but is still ranked highly in the state, just not nationally.) So we are actually paying less for better schools than folks who live just a few blocks away, same general neighborhood, just on the other side of the district line.
Once your kids have actually been in school for a few years, I think you will appreciate the quality school district a LOT more than that extra media room in the fancier house, or whatever you think you’ll love in the other place. It won’t make up for the massive frustration you will feel when your school, where you kid goes _all day_, isn’t doing a job you are happy with.
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I don’t have children, and I’m not married, so I won’t be having children any time soon. But, every now and then my boyfriend and I speculate on what we’d do if got married and started a family. Most of it revolves around cutting back on regular expenses. But, if we had a deeper discussion, I’m sure we’d talk about education.
I do understand the obessession with finding good schools for your children. However, I do believe the most prestigious school isn’t necessarily the best school for every child. Having said that, it seems that overall quality in public education has become more uneven than when I was a child. Also, I was pulled out of the public schools when I was 11 because after grade 5 my mom felt the public weren’t very good. So from 6th grade on I went to private schools. In the back of mind, there’s a concern I may need to do something similar for my children. Luckily, in my area there’s a charter school that seems very good, and the public school seems more than adequate, so I will likely have some free options K-12, allowing me to save for college.
I will say, though, that if we had to move, I’d consider compromising by living in a good district as opposed to the best. I don’t think killing your budget to live in the top district is necessary if you can afford to live a very good district. It’s the difference between taking on massive debt to go to Harvard versus a public ivy in my mind.
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We picked a house that we loved in a not so good school district. We knew that we had other options as to where we could send our kids due to local school board policies and eventually chose to home school. As a teacher, as long as the school is safe with qualified teachers, I would say that what your child gets out of school will be more about your child’s interest in school and your interest in their education rather than the school that they attend.
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I agree with all those who say the school isn’t the most important thing.
As a teacher, the kids who excel in school are the ones who have parents who read to them, who help them with their homework, who take them on trips to places near and far so they can learn about the world in the world and not just out of books.
Also, I knew married-with-babies people who had moved to a particular town because the schools were excellent. By the time the kids were in middle school, the school system had declined.
I vote for the less expensive house. Spend money on taking the kids places, and be involved in the goings-on at school.
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Live where you want. the mad scramble of parents to find a house in the best school district is folly since PARENTAL guidance is the primary determinant for school success. Your kid will get the same SAT score in distrit A as district B. What makes District A appear ‘better’ is the scores of the kids who go there. Your kid wont’ get better scores by osmosis sitting next to a bright kid: he will make his own future.
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Two words for helping to ensure that kids get a good education – Parental Involvement.
My kids have attended public schools in what’s probably rated as a “mediocre” district. But in nearly every case, I have found that teachers have been responsive to e-mails and phone calls. Even after working hours. Each year kids from our district go on to Ivy League schools, but there are also kids who don’t do well. Keep up the communication with your kids and with their teachers and they’ll be fine.
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Everyone above has said true things. But no one has noted that the right decision depends just as much on the child as on the school district. Some kids will succeed no matter where they are; others will need special services. Other “smart” children become bored and lazy if they attend school in a school where the teachers are unable to challenge them. As Tim said in comment #31:
“The schools you go to will mold you as a future person. If you don’t have to try for 12 years and you are on the honor roll every term, you learn bad habits that stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me.”
I second this. I attended school in a mixed-income, mixed race district that definitely had good aspects to it (I learned how to get along with all different sorts of people, for example) but just did not challenge me academically. My minimum effort was enough to get As and Bs in everything.
Thank goodness my parents sent me to university in Canada. Suddenly plunged into a sea of students who had had far more comprehensive educations and knew how to work hard, I was forced to get my act together.
Still, my adult life has been a struggle against laziness and I wish I had learned a better work ethic as a young student.
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See post 34, exactly what I wanted to say.
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Buying into a lower rent area does NOT guarantee anything about what people will be providing to their kids. You can not avoid the latest greatest thing by neighborhood. We routinely see 10 year olds with cell phones and it crosses all income ranges. People max stuff out on credit cards and you never really know who has money. IMO.
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I went to a thoroughly mediocre public school (I’m from a small town and it was the only one available) and I think I turned out just fine. My parents fostered a lot of intellectual curiosity and exploration (they’re both professors). We went to the public library all the time, did the montessori technique at home, enrolled in gifted and talented summer programs, etc. I went to a stellar undergraduate university and felt fully prepared. Now I’m at a top-tier graduate school. I think that if you’re willing to supplement the schoolwork and be involved, your kids will turn out just fine.
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Seven years ago my husband I moved from an urban environment with mediocre schools to a much better district as the eldest of our 4 children started school. We did not choose the priciest, and supposedly best district in our area because it was HUGE, especially the high schools, which have literally thousands of students in each school. We reviewed grad rates and school programs and found a district with a good variety of programs, music, art, forward thinking education, high tech, with a graduating class of about 300 per grade. We love it. Parental involvement gets you everywhere in education. No matter where your child attends school, no one will care for his education more than you. You must be an advocate for your child at all stages in order for them to get what they need.
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First, I offer the disclaimer that as a parent, you will screw up your kids no matter what you do.
That said, as a Realtor, it is usually true that the homes in the better school districts sell for higher prices and more quickly, so that is something to consider for down the line.
As a mom, I agree with the poster who said to look at the high school more than the elementary school, but usually it is a feeder pattern that the elementary will be good if it feeds into the good high school.
I have tried it all with my oldest, from Montessori to private to public, and I believe that you should put your kids in the best school that you possibly can. Especially in public education, the schools in the better school districts generally have better funding, are safer, have better teachers, and have kids whose families value education. Not every kid will respond to a particular system of education (my daughter was a disaster in Montessori), but the best public schools have the widest range of options for each kid – gifted, magnet, special needs, extracurricular activities. At a really good public school, if your kid is not so great academically but excellent in arts, they can have an opportunity to excel that will boost their confidence and lead to more success overall. But no matter which school you choose, you have to be involved as much as you can.
My parents sacrificed a lot to put me through private school b/c the public schools in our area were terrible, and I was able to go to an excellent college and have a great career. It has given me the best advantage in life that I could have ever asked for.
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I have two children from a previous marriage. After the divorce my ex-wife moved to a different town. My kids would have had to move out of the excellent school district in which we lived as a family if I had not stayed in town. (We had joint custody.) After the divorce I could not really afford another house in our town, but I was lucky enough that I found a house for rent that fit very well into my budget. So, my choice to stay in town was not so much by design but rather by coincidence if there is such a thing. It was an unusual combination of circumstances that allowed me to stay in town until my older children finished high school in an excellent district. Nevertheless, I lived in a house whose standard probably ranked in the bottom 10% of our town, but this was well worth the sacrifice to me.
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Like JD, I am childfree, but I’d like to offer my thoughts from the perspective of one whose parents sacrificed to put her in private schools. I cannot agree enough with the first commenter concerning his parents’ choices and how they affected him. Please, please, please consider the socioeconomic peer group issue.
It was not fun being the “poor kid.” It also gave me such a skewed view of the world. My parents were middle class, not poor; they owned their own home and had 2 cars, and we took vacations, albeit modest ones, every year. They did not, however, buy me a new BMW for my 15th b-day, as did the parents of one of my classmates. For a while I thought that the girls who received new cars as b-day or Christmas presents were the norm and I was the freak because I didn’t get one. Consider whether you want your kids to have similar beliefs.
I received an excellent education, but I hated school until I got to college because it was so miserable to be the odd one out. This feeling of being the freak profoundly shaped my sense of self and world view, and I still carry it around at the age of 36. I don’t think I’ll ever really shake it. Also, looking back, I could have gotten an even better education at the public magnet school in my city, and I would’ve been a lot happier, too.
Finally, if the private schools are expensive, can you also save for college and for your own old age? I know people who are making great sacrifices to spend $20K and up for their children’s grade school and high school educations, but those children have no college funds, and those parents have no retirement funds. Is ABC private school really worth having no retirement savings and thus potentially becoming a burden on your children in your dotage?
Good luck with your choice. I know it’s not easy, and I don’t envy you for having it.
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While I agree that schools are very important, I think the way we currently ‘grade’ schools sucks. We moved from a district that was considered poor, because of low test scores, to one that is considered shining. However, what we found was that the other school wasn’t willing to work with us *unless* they felt the kids’ difficulties would bring down their standardized test average. For a child with special educational needs that translate into educational delay, I’m told, this is great– they will do whatever they have to in order to help that kid. On the other hand, the program for kids who aren’t delayed is… unhelpful.
Also be aware that elementary schools in the same district may vary wildly.
But another factor, if it’s important to you: what is the neighborhood like? Can children be outside without someone calling the cops? Is it walkable? Is it outdoor-child-friendly? Or will your neighbors have a cow if you let your child walk around the block? If that’s what you want, go for it.
I’m planning staying in our school district, despite struggles over our daughter’s education, because a) she’d hate to move again, but more importantly b) the town is friendly for children to be outside; children over age 7 are allowed in the town library by themselves, and middle schoolers routinely walk to school and back. That’s important to me.
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I have bought three homes, sold two. My experience is that the value of the property is directly proportional to the quality of the schools. Buying the least expensive home in the best school district is, in my opinion, the best financial decision.
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I have four daughters, three in college and one in high school. We have wrestled with this question.
Kids react to parents much more so than the school all the way through high school. Unfortunately, they react much more to friends than anything else once they hit high school. How does this affect the questioner?
Parents can overcome any deficiencies in schools with attention to the children at home, on vacations, and on weekends. It’s all a trade in the end, but we chose to trade our time (with the kids) for our money (buying in a better school area.
When it really gets down to it, we all “pay” for private school or a better school. You can live in a dump and pay for private school (money outlay). You can “buy up” into a better school (money outlay). Or you can buy a sensible house, save money, and “pay” by spending time with the kids, thus providing them the development they need.
We chose the latter, and have been successful. I wish you well.
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We do not have kids, but my husband is a teacher for a mid-level school district. Honestly, the most intelligent kids are the ones that choose to learn. The schools all have to teach the same basic stuff. My husband’s most advanced kids are the ones that want to learn…the ones that choose to goof off won’t learn anywhere.
I’d pick the less expensive house and the good night’s sleep that an emergency fund will allow.
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Go for an inexpensive house and a great private school. You didn’t even seem to consider private schools as an option, but I would say private schools are hands-down the best place to look if you want your kids to get a consistently stellar education in a nurturing environment.
Anybody can do it. My parents made under $60K (Dad worked, Mom stayed at home), gave away 10% of their income, and were able to send me to the best school in our area (a Christian preparatory school) at nearly $6K/year, plus extracurricular expenses, for 7 years. They wanted me to have an environment where I would be free to learn without the drama of drugs/bullying/underage sex/conspicuous consumption/etc. and where administrators and teachers shared their high moral and academic standards. I feel like I learned more interesting things, and learned them better, at that preparatory school than I did at the top-tier public research university when I earned my BS and MS. They were amazing years, and I’m grateful to my parents for recognizing how that school could develop my gifts and making it a priority for me to be there.
The years in primary education are such important years for your children. It sounds like you really want to be thoughtful and flexible so you can give them the best you can afford. Definitely consider the wealth of options that exist with private education. Best wishes!
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Father of 3 here.
I grew up in a town of 6,000 people. My high school offered only 3 AP classes, and only one language class. I turned out just fine despite the lack of opportunities. All of my classmates who applied themselves have also landed on their feet.
While looking at places to buy a home (in a big city) we wanted somewhere where the schools and the neighborhoods were both safe. I am confident that if we give our kids a good learning environment and encourage a love of learning they’ll be fine too.
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I agree with you completely JD – a “good” school will have some great teachers, some not so good – so will a “great” school – sometimes your children will flourish with a teaching style – some years, not so much.
My philosophy has been that public education is not about the end all be all of educating your child – as a parent you have to enrich it, take trips to the library, the zoo, the gardens, etc. if you feel something is missing – be part of a community to make it better. Join the PTA and rally for new playground equipment, or microscopes, or whatever.
YOU, as a parent, being part of the equation is what will make a monger lasting impression and will show your child value.
One last thought – a “good” school in a neighborhood that allows you to provide other opportunities, that lessens the need to “be like Suzie”, and that might have more cultural diversity is wayyyyyy more important than your other option. Go with what works for your family – the whole family.
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A solid school is 90+% of the best school. And you can put your resources and effort into raising an inquisitive child with a love of learning and various experiences, MORE than making up for that last 10%.
This is not a sports team here where the team with the best wins the final tournament, and the team with 90% of the best is forgotten about. Housing in the best school’s district are already bid up by parents who wouldn’t believe in my first paragraph.
I don’t have any kids yet, but my first is on the way!
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Mother of two recent college grads here, 2006 and 2009. It was dumb luck and a modest income that landed us in this lower middle class, blue collar neighborhood with award winning public schools. The district put kids first, was fiscally responsible and made sure all the kids had the skills and opportunity to go to college. They made every effort to involve the parents in their children’s education. For example when it came to understanding the How To on money for college they encouraged us to attend workshops given by our US Rep and Financial Admins from the university and the community college. My youngest son had all of his first college semester done before he graduated High School. That saved us a lot of money. Shop around, we’re out here.
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We chose a very modest neighborhood with a smaller home and sent our kids to private religious (Catholic) schools because the education/religious aspect was far more important to us for our children. The public schools were good, but since neither my husband nor I had ever attended a public school, it was not really a consideration.
Funny enough, our very modest little home in So Cal that we purchased at $120,000 in 1987 turned into a $630,000 sale when we moved to another state for retirement (Oregon) in 2005. Who knew? Today, that same home has been foreclosed upon twice since we sold it (we still have extensive family in the area and friends in the neighborhood) but recently sold at auction for $350,000.
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Of course parents play a huge role, but these kids have the same parents no matter what school they go to.
It seems like everyone is defining ‘better’ as ‘higher socioeconomic demographic’ and that isn’t true at all. In Albuquerque, NM the HS graduation rate hangs around 50%. The best school is at ~80% and the second best school is 70-75%. So how do you think the worst school is doing? On the flip side Provo, UT the graduation rate is in the 90% range. I would probably be more comfortable sending my kid to the worst school in Provo than the best in ABQ.
And it is HS where your child is most likely to be influenced by peer groups. They don’t have to fall in with the chess club, but I know more parents that deal with truancy and drug problems at the not so hot schools. The uninvolved parents have the bigger problems, but the involved parents have their share.
It also depends on your kid. If your kid is MMH (mildly mentally handicapped) you aren’t going to care how many AP courses are offered. If your kid is on the track team you aren’t going to wonder about the quality (or existence) of occupational therapists. The HS I went to was FABULOUS for middle of the road students. It was small and safe, had no gang problems and fair teachers most of which worked hard and got personally involved with their students. It was a bad fit for me as I was a high performer and actually had to petition the superintendent to take a math class my senior year because there wasn’t anything available. I would have done better at the school in the next town with AP classes and a university tie in.
On the flip side my husband went to the perfect school for him. He is a large man and was drafted for the basketball and football teams (one of the best sport schools in the state). His coaches were the ones to encourage him academically and teach him how to work hard. At a school without a strong sports program he wouldn’t have worked as hard or developed the confidence he needed to succeed in life, at least not as early.
I think you can supplement educational deficiencies in elementary school, but when your kids hit junior high and high school I think you really need to consider what makes a good school. You shouldn’t send yourself to the poorhouse or beat yourself up if you can’t afford the best, but the school DOES matter, maybe not as much as other factors, but look at the statistics coming from DC’s voucher program. The kids have the same parents no matter the school, but the better schools have improved their performance.
Oh, and for those of you who advocate private school over moving to a nicer area, do the math. Sometimes it makes sense, but if you put tuition toward your house for four years (per kid) instead of tuition, how much more house would you have? Could you afford the nicer house in the better school district? $10k tuition four years, two kids, is $80k. That IS the price of a house in many areas.
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I’m not a parent, but I think that you should go with the less expensive, safer alternative so you can save up the kids’ college funds. I went to over 8 different schools before I hit high school, and I still managed to get a university degree. My sister was in the same boat, and now she is going on to get her masters degree at one of the world’s best universities.
I am inclined to agree with J.D. You also have to consider that each school will have its own problems. Make homework a priority. Get your kids interested in learning. Hire a tutor if the grades start to slip. Take the kids to museums. Teach them things. At one point I was in what could be best described as a hick school, but my parents always made learning a priority. Only a handful of my peers ended up going to university, but I did.
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Buy the less expensive house. Your kids are just starting school. You’ll have hours ech day to “enrich” their experience. Grades K-3 are just to get them used to the idea of “school” and all that “school” means, to introduce numbers and letters, the concept that we are not alone on the planet, then basic math and reading. They don’t start integrating these things till 4th grade. By then you should have a much better handle on your kids, their characters, likes and dislikes, and the area. This should help you to make a more informed choice about whether or not to move.
I homeschooled all 3 of my kids, pre-K thru 12th. I know they are better off because of it. However, they are not math/science people and they are girls (which means that MY expectation of them is different, because I’d expect a boy to need to be prepared to support a family).
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I feel like I could have submitted that question. We ended up opting for the modest home with a 15-year mortgage. However, we have drawn the line at the middle and high school in our current district. We will either move by the time our 6 year old gets to middle school (we also have a 2 month old so our “education investment” of moving should technically double??) or I will drive them to an out of zone school (bus service not provided). Private school is not a financial option for us.
Keep in mind, I recently left my $50K job to stay at home (temporarily??). This was in the interest of family sanity and quality time spent together in the evenings. This was a tough financial move, but worth it when my husband can spend his time talking to us at the dinner table and reading bedtime stories instead of helping pick up the kids from daycare, cooking dinner, doing laundry, etc. when he walks in the door.
We also felt living in the modest home will enable us to help our children with college, cars, etc. Our neighbors probably make about the same amount of money (now that I’m not working) so the majority of the neighborhood children are not spoiled. However, I think you’ll find consumer-driven families in every neighborhood as long as there are credit cards.
There are times when I feel very guilty that I went to such fabulous public schools (as did my husband) and our children will go to mediocre-good schools at best. I want them to have more than I did, not less. But his job dictates we live in a state with poor public education and private schools cost the same as college so they are not an option.
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This is from my mom – 40yrs as teacher/principle:
-Home School: DONT. Worst thing you can possibly do to your kids (besides giving them a silly name). They might get great test scores, but their social skills will be so far behind that they will struggle to make it in any people skills jobs – Senior Management being one!
-Choice of School is almost irrelevant (mainly): If kids are in all but top or bottom 5% of kids then they will hang out with other kids who are about the same level of intellect and income. If you kill yourself to get your kid to the most expensive school to get the kids to hang out with the ‘right’ people then it will not work – they will hang out with the other kids who have parents killing themselves to get them into that school.
-Better to be a big fish in a little pond than little fish in big pond: A slightly above average kid (probably most of ‘our’ kids) will be better prepared for life being a well above average kid in an averages school than below average kid in a high achieving school in terms of leadership, self esteem and confidence.
-The less travel time the better: It gives them less time to do the things that help them grow – hobbies, sport, music, read, explore, just being a kid.
-Parent over school: 1 hour a day with a parent is infinitely better than never seeing a parent because they are out working to afford to send the kid to the best school.
-Parents: Kids with parents who help the kids learn turn out to be better students.
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Be careful when defining the “Best” schools. We have two children, and we’ve toured a lot of schools. Two of the most popular schools in the area, often singled out as the “Best” schools, were not the right fit for our family. One was a private preschool and kindergarten program. The second was a popular public school, grades 1-5, that required a lottery process to attend. Tour the schools and make an informed decision based on your children’s needs.
P.S. I agree with J.D. here too!
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Wow JD it’s just now 10:00 CST and you already have more than 80 responses!
My thoughts as a teacher in a lower income school:
My wife and I both teach elementary school in the same building(Me in 4th grade and my wife in kindergarten.) Our school has the most ESL (English as second language),and lowest income households in the district.
Many commenters are correct in their response the parents have the potential to have more of an affect on the child’s success than the school. While my wife and I have the option to send our children to any elementary school in the district, we chose to have them in the same building as us. Why? Because I want my children to learn and be exposed to kids of different backgrounds. (Even the kids from troubled homes.) They aren’t going to grow up in a cookie cutter society all of their life. Good teachers and administrators can dictate the learning atmosphere of their building regardless of the communities socio-economic status.
In many districts with low performing schools, some of the most effective teachers are moved to the lowest performing schools to help improve the education setting and test performance. While, I don’t think that is the case in the school I teach in, I feel every teacher I work with is sincerely interested in the success of the students and providing the best learning environment possible.
My advice, go to the local schools of whatever communities you are considering moving to. Tour the building, speak with the administrators and parents of kids in that building. If you and your child are determined to be successful in your child’s education, chances are they will be.
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Personally, I’ve never agreed with the idea of “house as an investment.” When we buy, I will treat it as a cost expense, not an investment. That way, when it’s time to move on, the return is butter and I can’t be disappointed if it’s not as much as I put in. If I were to sell my car, I wouldn’t dream of getting back as much as I paid.
In my experience, there isn’t a huge difference between a good school and a great school. A good school is still going to have the resources for a motivated student to excel and nothing in a great school is going to propel a mediocre student… unless they happen to find their passion. However, I don’t think that stumbling upon your passion is more likely or easier at a great school than a good school.
That said, if your kid has shown an aptitude for a certain discipline such as STEM, it would be a good idea to live where they could eventually go to a (in this case) STEM school. But the district may let your student simply transfer to that school instead of you moving to that neighborhood; I’m not sure how those things work exactly.
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I posed a similar question a while back on ask.metafilter and got some interesting responses:
http://ask.metafilter.com/122604/What-happens-if-my-kids-think-theyre-poor-when-theyre-really-not
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I can’t remember which book , but one by Malcolm Gladwell (possibly Outliers) explains how the only thing that actually makes a difference when it comes to a school is :Is it safe?
Accounting for all other differences, as long as the school is safe to attend, then the child will fulfill his or her own potential. The child will actually learn less if they are stressed out over time, and if you are stressed about money, that will have a negative effect on your children.
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I think a more modest house that you can afford is a better choice, because it will help provide choices for your children in the future. If the school district is average, that’s okay. Without the strangle hold of a huge mortgage, you could afford things like a tutor if they have trouble with a subject. Private lessons if they start to excel in music or art. Student exchange programs when they are in high school.
My husband and I are going to apply to charter schools for our son when he is old enough. However, the reason we are doing this is because our schools are far below average. Seventy percent of the children in the district speak no English when they enter district. Math, science and English proficiencies remain below thirty percent through all grades in our local elementary school. A charter school is a low-to-no cost way to get into a better school in the area.
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School is just one part of education. It is important but it is not everything. I would not worry too much about that.
I think that one good way to “invest” in your children education is to be more involve in their life. It may be easier to do if your are not too worry about money.
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I would recommend buying the more modest house. It will give you greater financial flexibility in the future (ie private school, college, etc) and allow you to spend more time with your kids.
I would also suggest closely following the news from both school districts. You may find that one school or school district offers better services for YOUR children. I attended an under performing public high school, that had tons of AP classes (which I took), and a state championship track program (which I ran in). It didn’t serve every child equally well; many of friends switched to private schools. But it worked for me and my sisters, and allowed our parents to put money towards their retirement and our college educations.
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You have to put into the equation the quality of school in the value of real estate. As a parent you have to weigh pros and cons and decide what is financially prudent. The advice above about renting sounds like a reasonable plan for this example.
I gave up some perks to live next to the school that I do but I didnt mortgage our family’s future.
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I want to point out GeekBrad’s comment (#60) about his taxes being lower in the “more expensive” town. My friends constantly assume that we must be paying enormous property taxes, but because of the wide scale in our town, we actually pay less for better schools than we would be paying for a similarly priced home in neighboring communities.
Secondly, for everyone commenting that the parents are the biggest part of the equation, it may be true that good parenting can help overcome shortcomings of school systems, but you should see what good parenting AND a good school system can do. In our case, instead of having to hire lawyers and advocates to fight to get the system to even acknowledge that our son *has* an issue, we are already planning out a roadmap so that we can all help him overcome his challenges as a *team*. Believe me, that makes a HUGE difference in terms of the possible outcomes for my son’s challenges. For the parents who don’t have special circumstances, they find that at every level of ability, there are just a lot more options to help their kids grow than many of the districts around us.
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Cheaper house and private school.
Short version of my story – we bought a great house, pool, land in a questionable area – never thinking of having kids. 9/11 happened and I changed my mind about having kids – we had 2 in two years. We can not use the school district in Los Angeles. We use a small private religious school, down the block and WE LOVE IT – even though we are not particularly religious, you can’t argue with values like: Respect, Kindness, etc..
Having said that – I personally would NEVER buy in this kind of neighborhood – again – we have been “gifted” with a nightmare situation of Section 8 folks next door. This particular family allows up to 20 squatters at a time, had a pack of pitbulls, blasts music to shake our house, throws trash (becuase they won’t pay for waste)into neighbors backyards AND parks on our lawn. I am positive not all Section 8 housing is like this. BUT it has been enough of a bad experience to never buy where it could happen again.
I think the likeliness of this happening in $1.4M community is probably a lot less. Although bad neighbors can happen anywhere – at lower price points, you are going to have a higher percentage.
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When we purchased our house, we moved into one of the best school districts. It is not the one with the best test scores in the city (that one is in the wealthy neighborhood and has a lot of drug problems). But this district is one of the oldest in our city and has solid schools with little problems and better diversity. We felt this district was the best for our daughter.
The universe laughed, though, and our daughter tested gifted. She was placed in the full-time gifted school, which is 30 minutes away from our home, and within walking distance of the condo we sold to move into the house. Go figure.
We wouldn’t move back to the old neighborhood, though, because we like where we are. We have a city park next door, and the neighbors have kids as well. It truly is a neighborhood in a way the old place was not.
My daughter is OK with the extra bus time, and she will eventually transfer into our local high school. We keep connections with local friends through play dates and Girl Scouts, and listen to the experience of neighbors who have had children follow the same path.
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