Ask the Readers: How Do You Figure the Calculus of Kids?
Published on - March 12th, 2010 (by J.D. Roth) I keep intending to retain “ask the readers” as a regular Friday feature — and I keep failing. You folks send me tons of great questions, and I’d love to share more of them. This week, for example, Lisa wrote with the following.
“Having kids has made spending choices much more emotional and complex,” she says. “You can’t always calculate a return on investment.” Here’s her predicament:
My husband and I are looking to purchase a home in our new city, but we’re having trouble deciding where our values, finances, and priorities intersect.
We have young children, one who will start public school this year. We’re considering buying a home in a modest neighborhood so we could have a house/car replacement fund available, rather than taking all of the down payment money and putting it in a “better” house. The schools in the neighborhood are solid, but not the best in the district. If we buy in this smaller, less fancy area, we can choose a 15-year mortgage, minimize our overall house expenses, and have more money for all of life’s priorities. But, it feels like we’re “cheaping out” on the kids.
To compound our “analysis paralysis”, we lost a fair amount of equity when we had to sell our house to transfer out of state, so we’re feeling less than enamored with the idea of putting money that is currently liquid into a building that isn’t guaranteed to hold its value, much less appreciate. (We have no car/consumer debt, and we have a comfortable emergency fund.)
I think our family might feel more comfortable in a more modest neighborhood with more coupon-clipping parents and kids who don’t have the latest and greatest, but I also want my children to have a great education. Have other parents faced this battle, doing what’s best for the overall budget vs. doing what’s expected for our kids? We’d love to hear how it worked out for you.
I love questions like this. They’re a clear demonstration that personal finance isn’t only about the numbers; it involves a complex calculus of math, emotions, and dreams.
Most of the time, I can offer suggestions when people ask these sorts of questions. But when it comes to kids, I’m at a loss. Kris and I have chosen to remain childfree, and as a result, I’ve never had to wrestle with these sorts of sticky issues.
From a non-parent perspective, I admit that the obsession over which school a kid will attend seems…well, I don’t know how to put it in words that won’t make people angry. But I’ve watched friends and family go through mental and financial gyrations to get their kids into the right pre-schools, which boggles my mind. I’m a firm believer that education is more about the child than it is about the school. If a kid has been taught to love and value learning, she can thrive almost anywhere.
In other words, I’d urge Lisa to make her decision based on finances and not the school district. This may mean she needs to take a more active role in fostering her children’s intellectual curiosity, but that’s a good thing all the way around. But what do I know? As I say, I don’t have kids, and I don’t know what it’s like to actually face this decision. It’s one thing to say it and another to live it.
So, what do you parents say? How do you judge the trade-off between expenses and education? Is it worth paying more to live in a good school district? How does one make this sort of decision?
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Ask the Readers, Choices, Education, Kids
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
I think supportive and active parents are more important than the school the child goes to. There’s a reason why Asian kids tend to do better than American kids in schools. They have really involved parents that demand a lot from their kids. Unless the school is a total failure I would stick with the less expensive choice. If your child is excellent, he/she will succeed anywhere she attends.
loading....
JD sez: “I’m a firm believer that education is more about the child than it is about the school. If a kid has been taught to love and value learning, she can thrive almost anywhere.”
You should’ve stopped digging while you had the chance
A child’s measured performance in school is going to be primarily driven by that child’s particular aptitudes. But a school, and more specifically, the teachers, can have a great impact on the what and how a child learns. While we as parents are a child’s first teachers, a bad teacher can undo our hard work, and a great teacher can complement our efforts. Getting screwed in elementary school can wreak havoc with your child’s entire education (the flip side being obvious). And even subtle things like a high school’s principal’s attitude toward academics vs sports can influence the expectations for many students on campus. That was my high school, and the highest expectation the administration had for its students was getting into the local state university. Which was not bad, but that’s where the bar was set. And if you remember the peer pressure during that age, you can understand how quickly norms like that get inculcated. Being a troublemaker, I ended up going to a very highly rated university.
I’m assuming Lisa’s goal, like ours and most parents who obsess over this is to get your kids into a good university. So, one practical thing to consider is how a district or a school decides upon an educational track for students. For instance, my district set all of its gifted kids on the “honors/college prep/AP courses” track out of elementary school, and it was automatic, whereas non-gifted kids would need to interact with the bureaucracy to change the track they were on.
Finally from the standpoint of an employer: I know it’s often said, “well a college degree at least demonstrates you can finish something”, but at the end of the day, it’s simply a piece of paper that many organizations require as a prerequisite. So despite all the heartache and worrying, getting a degree from a great university or a mediocre one doesn’t matter too much (unless you’re in a specific field where a school’s rep can help). What is important to us are often the same values that we as parents try to instill at the very beginning: A work ethic, a love of learning, working well with others. Knowing how to do the job also helps.
That is to say, the college degree is not the ends, but simply a symbol of another step of your child’s educational journey. One hopefully where they not only learn about the world, but about themselves.
loading....
I have kids who are in decent suburban middle and high schools right now, and we did a lot of soul searching to figure out where to live and enroll them. We ended up in a well-established, older suburban neighborhood with good-but-not-great (and not terribly overcrowded) schools.
We’ve also run the gamut in schools (having moved a fair amount for work) and interacted with plenty of others. What I have found is that the ranking and “quality” of the school tends to have very little to do with how hard you have to fight to get your kids educated. Bureacracies vary from district to district (we’re in one of the biggest in the country now) and from school to school… and from year to year within the same school. So if you find a school that offers decent challenging programs (gifted programs at lower levels, AP courses in high school, opportunities for extra coursework), you’ll at least know that they are trying. And it seems that the more modest schools have some of the happier and more involved teachers, as they don’t have to spend their days deflecting indulgent helicopter parents and artificially inflating scores. They do, however, have to spend more time focusing on the kids without the resources outside the classroom. I have seen kids get great educations at genuinely mediocre schools, though, because their parents encouraged them to learn and to strive for more. And I’ve seen lazy drug dealer dropouts at the shiniest of the new “rich kid” schools because they have spent their lives being coddled and have never had a love of learning or acheivement instilled in them.
Ultimately, my opinion tends to fall into the category of avoiding schools with metal detectors and armed police in the cafeteria, but not worrying about attending the one with the Jumbotron at the football field and the state champion water polo team. Racial and socio-economic diversity teach kids about the real world.
loading....
My small town doesn’t offer many options and the schools aren’t the greatest. Poor state, poor community, etc.
Since BEFORE my children started school I took an ACTIVE part in their education and have continued to supplement it ever since. I have always prioritized education and its importance. I have made good books available to my children and read with them all the time, including my middle schooler. I always try to find an educational opportunity in everything we do. (Who can figure out our gas mileage the fastest on a recent trip to Denver to see a Hockey game?) And I have never relied on the teachers or the schools to provide my child’s education. I am ALWAYS supplementing it. And I have always tried to participate in my children’s classes. Though I work full time, I try to be available for class trips and other activities so that my children know I think their education is an important part of my life.
My children are both A students who have qualified for the Advanced Educational Program. My 7th grade son is taking high school credit classes already. And it looks like my daughter will be following the same tract.
I say find the neighborhood you really like but in a financial situation that you are comfortable with. One that will allow you to provide all of the extra educational opportunities for your kids, whether those be trips to the library and museums, or a road trip to see every state & national park in your state, or a trip of all of the biggest and fastest roller coasters our country has to offer. One where you don’t have to work 80 hours a week to pay the mortgage.
Keep life comfortable so you can enjoy all the great stuff life has to offer!
loading....
It’s all self-fulfilling prophecies. The better schools attract better students and hence produce better results. Rarely do you have better schools teach/motivate/change average students into better students. It just is not reality.
loading....
Study after study shows the most important factor in education is parental involvement. That happens based on your character, not your neighborhood.
The most important thing to ‘teach’ your children is the values that are important to you. And the value of money is certainly on the list.
Better to live in an ‘ok’ neighborhood and be involved, then to be in a ‘high end’ neighborhood and have to compromise your values, etc.
loading....
Go with the more modest neighborhood that you can actually afford. This has so many benefits for the adults and the children in your family, including:
1) You can breathe financially. Your household will have less stress. You can afford other worthwhile things as a family.
2) You can save for college. Do your kids need the best possible high school education to then be stuck with college loans?
3) You are modeling responsible financial choices for your children. This is just as valuable a life skill as anything they will learn in school. It’s time for all Americans to stop over-consuming and pushing their lifestyles to the max.
4) Your kids will be just fine in a very good school – we all need to get over the notion that our children “deserve” or “need” “the best.” I hate it when people say they want “the best” for their kids. The last thing I want is spoiled children who have constantly heard that they “deserve the best.” I hope they always have an appreciation of how lucky they are and how – even if they have “the average” in the US – they have more than almost any other child in the world.
5) Your children may even benefit from not going to the absolute best schools. The top schools can be pressure cookers these days! It can be healthier to be a super-star at a good star than killing yourself to try to shine among the over-privileged kids at “the best” school. There are are more chances to shine at a regular school, more chances to get scholarships, etc.
6) You and your children may be happier socially in the neighborhood you can afford. I am very conscious that I do not want my children to hang out with the over-privileged. I want them to have perspective. I don’t want them to think that cell phones and luxury cars for 16-year olds are normal. I don’t want to have to constantly be saying “no” to their endless demands for material items. I want them to see a neighborhood with people interacting (that happens less areas where people are separated by giant homes and fences) and where the parents have normal jobs and lifestyles.
7) If you live conservatively financially, you’ll have extra money to supplement your child’s education when/if needed. You can pay for summer camps, tutoring, and other enriching activities without being financially stressed.
I could easily list ten more reasons, but hopefully this is enough
loading....
Something I’m surprised no one else seems to have brought up so far is that the quality of the schools isn’t static. Just because the school is “the best” right now doesn’t mean it always will be.
In my city we’ve seen a huge amount of movements in the quality of the schools in the last 10 years. The ones that used to be the best no longer are, and so-called “bad” schools (and medium ones) have topped the best schools list.
loading....
Great topic. Being a father of a 7 and 2 yr old my wife and I struggled with the private v. public school topic. with our oldest child we settled on a public education and will do so w/the 2nd child. the public school is rated above average which is good but I put more emphasis on the interaction that parents have with their children. I am always involved in my daughter’s school work and we try to make learning fun. as a result she loves reading and while she has her favorite and not so favorite subjects, she has no problem coming home and doing her schoolwork. learning shouldn’t be relegated to school only, parents need to take the lead in teaching their kids and that foundation will be expanded by a good classroom education.
loading....
@88 Lamby “-Better to be a big fish in a little pond than little fish in big pond: A slightly above average kid (probably most of ‘our’ kids) will be better prepared for life being a well above average kid in an averages school than below average kid in a high achieving school in terms of leadership, self esteem and confidence.”
Riiiight. Until they get into my university/masters program and hit cognitive dissonance, become angry and depressed and their self-esteem and confidence plummets. Far better for a child to meet failure and recover and best it many times in life. I see those products of the self-esteem K-12 movement in class and they do NOT do as well as students who had more traditional schooling. Students with realistic ideas about their abilities coming in aren’t the ones who break down crying during office hours (“you don’t understand, I was the smartest person in my high school and now I must be way below average”… “but I got straight As without work in high school”… “but before I only had to memorize things, why do you make us think?”) and they’re more likely to work hard instead of just giving up. Middling fish in big ponds are much more equipped to survive real challenges later on than big fish in small ponds.
Also: if the social skills learned in middle school are the ones important for management, I fear for our country. For the most part, home schooled kids do just fine socially.
loading....
I don’t have kids, but my close friends have kids in preschool age. They talk about putting their kids in private preschool, which they are also using as babysitters. It cost upwards of $700 a month. It seems very excessive to me. Perhaps I won’t understand because I don’t have kids. I would save that money for their college education instead.
loading....
I’m with #108 – just because a school is well-rated now, doesn’t mean it still will be when your kids are actually ready to go there. And I’m with all the commentors who argue in favor of parental involvement versus looking for the school with the best funding.
You have no way of knowing how that funding is used – it might all go for fancy sports facilities or top-notch technology; I’ll bet it doesn’t go to the teachers: those salaries are largely determined by seniority, education level, and the unions.
I really disagree with the notion of leveraging education – paying out tens of thousands of dollars on private schools is a big gamble, and paying more for a house so you can be in the “right” district may backfire if, like some of those writing above, your district decides to randomize attendance by busing, etc.
I went to lousy schools out in the sticks in South Georgia. The high school had no AP classes and no “gifted” program. I was the only child in my class who could read at the beginning of my second-grade year. I eventually graduated 17th in a class of 435 – after leaving high school a year early to attend college, so my grades weren’t propped up with senior-year fluff – won a full academic scholarship to the local college, and finished grad school on my own.
I attribute my academic success ENTIRELY to my parents, who made sure we had a house full of books, enriching activities, and adult conversation.
loading....
each side of this issue has its good points and bad points. Given today’s financial state, most affluent neighborhoods are trying to save money just like you are. I would go to a summer camp every summer (YMCA Camp Tockwogh, highly recommend it!) and my friends would stay home. when coming home I would see all the new things that my friends had (bikes, video games, cars) and then I wold tell them how I spent my time (wakeboarded, sailed, got with girls). Hands down everyone of them wished that they had gone to summer camp. teach your kids how to be happy with what they have and that life is about experiences not material possessions. just my opinion…
loading....
1) I don’t have kids.
2) The reader already answered her own question when she mentioned, “To compound our ‘analysis paralysis’…” If you recognize that you have analysis paralysis, then you’ve already finished the analysis and now just don’t want to make the decision that you already know makes the most sense.
3) In this case, the decision that makes the most sense is to buy the modest house in the decent school system for this family. The moment your lives begin to revolve around your kids is the moment when you’re going to start teaching them bad habits anyway about priorities in life, so the reader should skip that part and keep teaching good life lessons of frugality and moderation in all things – in other words, decent home in decent school system for the sake of the entire family, not less-than-acceptable home in great school system for the sake of just the kids.
loading....
We have done both. When we lived in LA, we (well, I — not being married @ the time) chose a working-class (and that is a charitable way of putting it) neighborhood where I could comfortably afford a small home. This may be one of the issues that J.D. was delicately referring to, but it was ethnically a very diverse neighborhood, and I ended up spending $15K+/year on private school because my ex-husband refused to allow our son to attend the neighborhood elementary school.
I moved up to Oregon (with new husband and small kids) in 2007 and thanks to the housing bubble–ie, we sold the LA house for a truckful of money– we were able to buy in a much more upscale neighborhood, which we chose *solely* because it is in one of the best school districts in the state. (We were hoping to convince my son’s father to allow him to accompany us here and go to school here, as he is now in a pretty lousy public school in the SF Valley.) The oldest one of our 3 youngest children will start at the “fabulous” public school next year, and all I can say is that he better like it — because I HATE this neighborhood. We don’t fit in with the people, we don’t fit in with the “gotta have the newest and best and updated every single year” attitude that permeates the place with respect to electronics/cars/other gewgaws, and we are totally, totally, totally unused to living in a neighborhood where people pull the SUV into the garage at 5:30, shut the blinds, and don’t come out again until work the next day. We have tried everything — extending invitations, trying to arrange playdates, etc. etc. etc. — it has been 2 1/2 years, and we still have no friends at all here. We are miserable, hate Oregon, and wish we could go back to our “bad” neighborhood in LA, where we knew all of our neighbors and we were all in it together.
So I guess for us the calculus of kids is yes, they have to have a decent education. If you bring the kids into the world, you owe them as good a start in life as you can give them. But that doesn’t necessarily mean the biggest and the best is what is right for every family. Sometimes the modest choices are going to transmit your values (financial and otherwise) more appropriately to them, and if that means that you need to spend more time supplementing what’s going on at school, well, so be it.
loading....
“The schools you go to will mold you as a future person. If you don’t have to try for 12 years and you are on the honor roll every term, you learn bad habits that stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me.”
This. Irrevocably and absolutely.
I’m currently at an excellent university in California. My single mother busted her ass and took out loans to send me to an elite private high school in an upscale area, a thirty-minute commute from where we lived. My four years in high school made me the person I am today — I’m confident, comfortable in my own skin and among all demographics and ethnicities. I was always less well off than my peers, but the quality of the people was such that they didn’t flaunt their wealth or use it to judge others; it’s like the difference between the “old rich” and the “noveau rich” in Gatsby.
Something like 97% of my graduating class went to college. Even the underachievers were above average when compared to students at ordinary public schools. My point is, the important things are:
1) The peer groups your child hangs out with — they have, by far, one of the largest influences on your child’s development and performance.
2) The quality of teachers and administration. You want people who will work for your students, not against them.
3) The resources the school has to offer. The more involved your child is in the social and extracurricular activities at school, the more developed his social life and the better chance he has of getting into a good college.
Go ahead and live in a more modest area, and send your kids to private school, if that’s financially easier for you. I wouldn’t give up my high school experience for the world.
loading....
Go for the cheaper house.
Save up, take your kids on awesome vacations.
Go to Rome, go to London, teach them history by visiting historic US sites. Read them stories about everything, and reward them for doing well in school at home.
A child who loves to learn is a child who will do well in school.
A child who is smart is one who doesn’t have to try in school, therefore has horrible study habits.
My advice? (as a recent 2006 high school grad, number 9 in my class of 900, full scholarships to schools of my choice, recent drop out of a private university?)
Have your kids graduate high school a year early.
Tell them that you will pay all expenses for them to go to community college for a year, and then to take a trip anywhere they want for 6 weeks (and I mean anywhere).
You will get in return a kid who is well rounded, smart, and knows how to study.
loading....
I’m a Father of 5. My three oldest are in elementary school (K, 3, 5).
As long as the local school is not a complete disaster (physical safety is concern), you will be fine. If you keep up with your kids homework, and push them / require more when you see they need it, they will be fine.
In all probability those other schools aren’t really better, they are just more likely to have parental involvement.
loading....
WOW what a great bunch of responses!
Not much I can add, so I’ll keep it simple.
We’ve done both. Our daughter started her school life as the only non-minority kid in her class (guess that made her the minority!) and it was an AMAZING wonderful experience. The school was GREAT even though it was perceived in the upper-middle class white community as being a poor-quality school. But the families, while of various ethnic groups, were all very supportive of the schools, the kids were bright and motivated, and the teachers engaged and happy. I would never have known this had I listened to the real estate people, or friends in a nearby (wealthy) town. We were crushed to have to leave due to a job change.
Next community we chose the “best” school district – paid about 20% more for our property, partly because our child had speech therapy needs and we wanted to be sure we were getting the best care. 10 years later, I somewhat regret that decision. Not that the kids aren’t getting a great education, they are, but we could have achieved the same results one district over, and saved about 20% on our house. Plus, our kids would have friends that are more in their income level, and not feel left out that they don’t have the right stuff.
My advice to you? GO TO THE SCHOOLS. Ask for a tour, meet the principal, ask for the name and number of the PTO president. Call her/him and ask what they like and dislike about the school. You may be surprised. One of the elementary schools in our ‘best’ district is terrible. The principal is disdainful of parents, teachers are disheartened, the program is boring. One of the ‘lower’ quality schools is vibrant, full of parents and interesting projects and opportunities for the kids.
Good luck!
loading....
I’m married with no kids (yet). But my husband and I were both kids and went through completely different educational tracks and I wanted to share my thoughts based on that.
I was raised middle class suburb. My parents stretched thin to put my brother & I into private Catholic schools. They were good quality schools and I got a strong, quality education that was “better” and harder then the public schools in our suburbs.
My husband was poor growing up. His family was actually homeless at one point in time. He went to local public schools in an “okay” community. Not great schools, but not horrible either. Just mediocre.
We both turned out great with education. Why? I think it’s because of the importance of education our parents instilled in us and how involved they were. It was important enough to them that they were involved and I know both our education’s thrived because of it.
Our (hopefully someday) children will go to “decent” public schools because that’s the reality of what we can afford. Plus, as I’ve grown and seen what stretching thin has done to my parents retirement and my own school loan debt vs. my husband’s education costs (free until college, with almost no debt)… it makes me comfortable with “okay” public schools as long as we are involved and help our children to understand the importance of education and how it will aid them throughout their lives.
I hope these thoughts add another perspective worth considering.
loading....
I think the parents’ role is MUCH more important than the school district. Unless the school district is really bad. On the flip side, the only way a school district ever changes for the better is by getting parents and students to step up and change it. It doesn’t take money as much as it takes commitment. IMHO.
loading....
My parents always told us that they felt our education was at home, and school supplimented what we learned at home. My sister and I went to a good school, but not the “best” and we both went to good colleges (she to Cornell and me a top rated Liberal Arts school in our state) and have great careers. I definately don’t think that the school will make or break a child. I think the education you get outside of school is far more valuable, and if you view it that way, its better to live somewhere you are comfortable than trying to get the kids into the “best” school.
loading....
For me, this is a case of having your spending in line with your values. I value an excellent education for my children above many of the other trappings of a “successful” life. Therefore, I will be sending my children to the school that offers what I feel is the best education even if it costs me dearly. I am more than willing live frugally in all other areas of my life (eg. small house, small car, not the latest in clothes or electronics, fewer/cheaper vacations, use coupons, shop sales, etc.), in order for my kids to have the education I want for them. These are my values, ones I hope to pass on to my children, and that is what I will spend my money on. That said, I will not stretch my finances to the point where I will not have enough savings for retirement, because I also value not being to burden to my kids when I am old.
loading....
I haven’t read the other replies, but I’d say you need to not feel guilty for cheaping out every time you know of some possibly better option for something that you’re not getting just because of the money.
All the clues in your story point to the affordable neighborhood, and for 1/10 the amount of money you will be saving on your mortgage and other expenses, you could sure afford a lot of fun educational activities and tutors to make up for any possible shortfall at the neighborhood schools.
loading....
Speaking as a teacher in the public schools: We often see kids who have been homeschooled until the last year of hs when the parents put them in public schools to avoid problems with transcripts for college. In every case these kids far outshine our brightest kids academically and socially. they are more polite, get along with adults, understand respect for other people and their belongings, and haven’t adopted the drug/sex llive sytle. They are a breath of fresh air. Choose a house in a neighborhood you are comfortable in and homeschool. It is cheaper than private school, and evvery bit as good.
loading....
My son is only 4, so this is mostly how he’s experienced daycare, what we learned about the local schools, and what I remember from being a kid who moved around a lot. Plus my experience as a tutor.
Kids with involved, literate parents do well in almost any school. You might have to do some supplemental instruction if your schools are really really bad, but in general even in schools with terrible test scores the middle-class kids with educated parents do fine.
My experience growing up is that I would rather be one of the richer kids in my neighborhood than one of the poorer ones, and that stability – including savings, not having to worry about money all the time, and parents having some free time instead of working all the time – is way more important than actual wealth.
So we chose an affordable house in a moderately-priced city neighborhood. It means our frugal habits don’t make him feel deprived, compared to other kids he knows; it means I can work part time instead of full time; it means we’re saving for our retirements and his education. Incidentally, it means he’s going to a racially diverse daycare and will be in a racially-diverse school, too. Another benefit is that we have city buses and almost everything is in walking/biking distance – the middle-school and up kids here have way more freedom of movement than I did at their age, living in a car-dependent area.
loading....
I agree that you should make your decision based on finances and work at fostering your child’s love for education and expose them to as much as you can outside the classroom.
I didn’t go to the best schools but I was able to go to one of the best Universities in the country. My parents stressed the importance of education and exposed me to things that helped me become the successful person I am today. The best gift they gave me was to teach me to love reading.
loading....
According to polls, people tend to think that schools in America are failing, but that their school is doing fine. I think that a family’s school experience is what they make of it. If something about the “lesser” school isn’t working for this family they will find a solution for it, whether that means finding an activity outside the school, at home or working within the community to make change.
loading....
Lisa,
We are a military family and have moved a lot. We always factor in the school district when choosing where to live. That really is the main consideration: I research the schools; determine the minimum standard for us; and we don’t even look in any other neighborhoods. Also, the neighborhoods with the better schools tend to be safer as well, with less crime, etc.
That being said, you said the school district with the more affordable house was “solid”, not horrible. Horrible is where I personally draw the line.
JD broached on a point that I’d like to try to make about going out of your way to get your kids the “best of the best” in terms of Name Brand Education, so to speak. Currently, my middle schooler is attending a very good public school. Thing is — it’s very homogeneous, and a lot of the kids are much more privileged and well off than he is, and we’ve had to curb a lot of “entitlement” issues around here.
Now, kids can suffer from a sense of entitlement no matter where they live or go to school — ultimately the parents can have the most influence in that regard — but it’s just something to think about when you make your decision: The amount of materialism they may be around in a wealthier neighborhood; and what their “normal” will be.
I’ve joked that we should have bought a house in a ghetto, then my son would appreciate what he has more than he does now. I’m just kidding, but there’s an element of truth underneath the banter.
loading....
I’m with Marc @ #4. A good private school in the first 3 or 4 years (k-Gr3) will set a strong foundation for future learning at any school.
And in fact that is what I did. I don’t own my home, and have spent the difference between rent and the mortgage payment on sending my daughter to a prinvate school. My daughter went to a private school for the last two years (Gr8-9), and is home now, and plans to have all her highschool credits done by the end of Gr11. She will graduate a year ealier than her “classmates” by her own choice, and none of my doing.
The private school with its small classes (Gr9 had NINE students in the class) was worth every dollar in giving her a strong base to pursue future eduction. I wish I had sent her earlier.
loading....
I should preface this by saying that we don’t have kids. I grew up going to suburban public schools in a good district. The schools in our district were definitely better than city schools, but I don’t feel I would’ve gotten a better education at the nicer schools within the district. I think it’s a waste to put kids in private school unless the surrounding school district has a poor rating. Kids will face much of the same issues in public and private.
loading....
It is a tough decision. We have a daughter in kindergarten and a son in 3rd grade, and although we like our neighborhood, the schools in our area of the city are lackluster/borderline.
Despite that, our city’s school district has a lottery transfer process which allowed us to transfer our son to one of the best schools in the city for his kindergarten year. The transfer process also gives priority in the lottery for siblings and transfer students who want to remain at their transfer school. So, both our kids are able to attend a great school in a middle-income neighborhood with very involved parents.
However, the transfer process works a bit differently for middle and high school, so we’ll need to decide what to do as that time gets closer, since it’s not assured that we’ll be able to transfer into our desired schools.
I know people who spend $10,000-$15,000 per child per year for K-12 private school. I’m not sure how they afford it, and I’m also not sure that the cost is justified compared to the better public schools.
It’s a tough choice that requires you to examine your values about money and education, as well as your neighborhood and the social environment that your kids are exposed to for the time they’re at school.
loading....
Props to JD for acknowledging that since he doesn’t have kids he can’t answer the question the same way a parent might. I’m sure I did this before I had kids and now it’s one of my biggest pet peeves. Everything changes when kids are brought into the picture.
We are struggling with this decision right now too. My daughter is only 2 but the preschools are tied to the elementary schools in our current town so we have less than a year before we need to apply. We will only be renting because we only plan to be in this state for 5 years or less so we’re not planning to buy so it’s a bit easier for us to make a change if we weren’t satisfied with our choice.
Some things we’re considering in our decision:
1. Is it a good school compared to a bad school or a good school compared to a great school? The school district we are in now is poor. I don’t think I’d want my daughter to even attend preschool or kindergarten in it. It’s borderline dangerous and I wouldn’t want to associate with many of the parents in it. Many of the school have been re-branded “magnet” schools but I don’t think the quality has improved.
2. Cost. Since it’s such an under-performing area this city has grants to pay for private preschools unassociated with the school system. Additionally the public preschools are completely free. If we changed towns we wouldn’t have access to this grant program.
3. What other facilities are available in the area? Good public libraries? Parks? Grocery stores? Farmer’s markets?
4. Diversity & fitting in are also concerns for us more as parents than for our kids who will still be young when we relocate again. We’d like our kids to be surrounded with different kinds of people but in our case this seems to be more of an all or nothing situation.
loading....
I am very glad that I purchased one of the most modest homes in the best school district in my town. My daughter does go to school with children from more affluent families. This is a good opportunity to discuss my values with her. She is very bright and I am glad to see her receiving a great education. I feel that this is among the best gifts I can give to her. I understand going with the 15 year mortgage, though. Just thought I would share what has been best for my family. Luckily, I did find an affordable home in the neighborhood I was interested in.
loading....
Really enjoyable discussion. I’m a retired teacher, have 3 college educated children, 2 grandchildren graduating college this year, l more finishing her freshman college year and one graduating from a small rural high school this year and accepted at exactly the college he wished.
I can’t see that it matters a hill of beans where a child goes to school as long as it feels “right” to the whole family and as long as there is a strong family commitment to the child and his/her concerns.
I do agree with those who suggest family vacations, summer camps,out-of-school enrichment activities, and, especially, travel.
loading....
One more view – I agree that a lot of it is about the child but let me point out one small thing.
I was an above average but not ragingly stellar student in my high school. My high school at the time was one of the best public schools in several counties at least.
I got into an extremely hard to get into public college [at the time, again, the top public school in the country] in part because I did as well as I did in a school that was known to be rigorous.
Going to that GREAT college and being a moderate student [solid b+ only] got me a FULL SCHOLARSHIP to law school. Can’t beat that.
Now the law school was NOT a great school – a decent one but not great – here was time where it was up to ME. I did very well, stayed in the top 10% and made law review – this won me a job in one of the huge NYC firms making oodles of money right out of school [and sadly spending even more than I made LOL]. An interesting note? Those not in the top 10% of my school couldn’t get an interview at the big firms at ALL – however those in ‘better’ law schools could be in even the middle of their class and not only get interviews but get hired.
Now for me? We live in a modest middle class area – we’re probably more educated than most of our neighbors but I love that my kids aren’t raised in an atmosphere of who has the newest whatever. And the elementary school is a solid one. However for middle and high school we’re paying to send them to a tougher private school – because I feel that it will be to their advantage sufficiently that it’s worth my cash to pay for it.
loading....
When we moved to Portland we have friends who said “you can’t live in Portland with their horrible schools, you should move to suburb X with their better schools.”
So what did we do? Moved to the “hood” in Portland.
We love our neighbors, and the neighborhood is rapidly changing with lots of like-minded young families moving in.
We believe in diving in and making a difference rather than checking out and going with private schools, or fleeing to the suburbs.
Our 3 year old daughter’s favorite activity is to read, and I feel there’s more to life than a “formal” education. She had a passport and left the country at 3 months, and has already been to more countries than most American’s. Which unfortunately isn’t saying much.
We also wanted her to be exposed to multiple cultures, not just the 99% “white bread” suburban culture of the suburbs.
Go with the modest neighborhood, instill a love of education, save for their education, and they’ll be fine.
Also, there is nothing wrong with state schools, it’s the fact that you get a higher degree that makes the biggest difference. What they do with that degree matters more.
loading....
This isn’t a decision I will ever face, but I haven’t been out of school for very long, so I can share that perspective. By the time I graduated high school I’d attended 6 schools (and then 3 colleges before finishing my B.S. — one of each type). My elementary and junior high schools were probably decent — each had a higher level math class for us smarty-pants. For high school we decided to move and I chose a very good high school (I chose it for the fencing team). It was a very wealthy district; many of my friends lived in McMansions while we rented an apartment. I’d advise parents to choose schools based on the teachers. Do they love teaching? Are their students engaged? Nine years later I still remember my favorite teacher, Mr. Stacy, doing entertaining impressions of Alexander Hamilton and President James Madison. And my math teacher did such a good job that I still love calculus. (Honestly, I enjoyed high school more than college.)
loading....
My husband and I made the mistake of buying a house in a failing school district, and we had to go through major hurdles to get our child into a decent school. It adversely affected the value of our house and means that we have to drive our kids to and from school everyday.
I find it frustrating that so many people downplay the importance of this decision, or act as if the “richest” school district is the best. Check the ratings; the school we got our son into rates better than any other in the district, and it is in a lower-class neighborhood. It simply has good teachers and involved parents who work to finance the extras through fundraising and volunteer work.
If my son went to our neighborhood school, he would be in a large class with 30+ kids and one teacher. At the school he is in, there are 27 kids, 2 teachers and 2 aides. He is reading at a 6th grade level in the 2nd grade, and is excelling at school.
Schools don’t just get bad ratings for academics; lower-quality schools can sometimes have problems with drugs or violence. That includes elementary schools.
My advice would definitely be to rent for a while in the neighborhood you want. Even if you’re sick of renting, even if you know it’s a buyer’s market, it sounds like you’re not sold on owning a house again. Keep that emergency fund intact and rent for a year and try out the school district. Not only are schools very different, teachers within schools are very different too; some kids work well with some teachers, and some kids don’t. Your mileage may vary, but renting will keep you from having to commit to this decision before you have all the facts.
loading....
IMO, I would lean towards the “solid-but-not-as-stellar” school district and money in the bank compared to the “better” one.
You said yourself it’s solid. Is this other school like the best in the state? If it isn’t then don’t worry about it.
I’ve known friends who went to “great” school districts and turned out to be not too successful or educated. I’ve also known friends who went to “border-line” schools and turned out successful and highly intelligent about the world.
I know, anecdotal, but honestly having the parents stress out because of finances to put little Johnny into the “best schools” is going to cause more harm than good, IMO. You could put that extra money in supplementing his/her education with extra activities , money for hobbies (chemistry set/lego sets/lessons) than with the long slog of a “better” school.
There are so many variables that honestly, if they aren’t dodging bullets or going through metal detectors to get to the school, it’ll be fine.
loading....
Personally, I think the involvement/interest/concern of the parents is going to outweigh the marginal difference between most school systems, provided the “modest” one is at least decent.
And frankly ( might seem like a political tangent here, but not meant that way), I find it very bizarre that parents and their children depend on the “school system” as the main provider of education. Parents and loved ones as well as the individual ( the child) are primarily responsible for the upbringing and education of their own kids, not the state.
I live in a “good” school system, and even in the “best” I find a lot of faults. This is probably because of the “system” as a whole that really places very little value on education and normal/healthy learning behavior, IMHO. I don’t worry about my children, but I worry about the kids with terrible parents.
That said, it appears these parents are very interested in the education of their children and would probably provide a great environment regardless of the local government schools. If the parents care, the kids care, and the government workers at the school somewhat care and are decent, it’s probably a winning combination.
loading....
I haven’t read through all of the comments so forgive any replication. I’m at the other end of this having raised my son as a divorced Mother and sent him to some highly rated public schools. I’d think about it several ways.
1. First, are the schools really better in the pricey area or is there just a perception that they are? Sit in on some classes, go to some extracurricular activities. Sometimes the teaching is equivalent but there are just more kids with advantages pumping up the test scores of one area over another.
2. What do you value in schools? Supportive teachers, good school spirit? a lot of volunteerism? AP or IB programs in the high schools? Good math curriculum? Strong reading program. Foreign languages? Again, don’t just go with what everyone says. Sitting next to rich kids all day doesn’t mean you’ll learn more.
3. My son went to highly rated public school and got a great education. it just happened to be where we landed and at the time the small houses didn’t cost appreciably more in one area than another. I think education is really important and I’m grateful but I sometimes think a slightly less competitive environment would have been more supportive.
4. As long as the schools are basically sound and offer a good curriculum with good teachers, your children’s academic achievement will be more dependent on the attitude towards learning that they see at home than how the schools are rated. I know some highly educated kids who went to school in some pretty marginal school districts. good luck with your decision.
loading....
I add my voice to the chorus of “buying a house that lands your kids in a school that is good but not the best is not cheaping out.”
We have faced this choice a couple of times. We have always been more comfortable in the more modest neighborhoods. Especially for elementary schools, “the best schools” are not necessarily best for your kids. In fact our children (3rd grade) have done better in the more modest neighborhood school than they did in the fancier neighborhood school (in another state). The difference between “good” and “best” schools will rarely be experienced by any child, especially in elementary school.
Also, it is interesting to note the phrasing of the question: “doing what’s best for the overall budget vs. doing what’s expected for our kids”. You want to do what is best for your kids, which since you are asking this question includes modeling good financial behavior, rather than what society expects.
Bottom line: go with what you think will be a better environment. After all, your children will learn more from you than from their school.
loading....
Not sure if this was mentioned before but in many states you can get around poorer high school performance levels by taking advantage of post-secondary options. In Ohio I was able to take half my classes at the local college campus’ free of charge and get both college and high school credit. Entered college with a year of electives done and didn’t have to deal with less that wonderful teachers and busy work assignments. I ended up taking classes that I liked with good teachers in high school and challenging myself with the college classes. There was even a guy in the next school district over who graduated college and high school at the same time.
loading....
So, I’ve been all over the map on this question myself, and have written a lot about it on ChildWild. Here’s a decent starting point if you want to read about our process: http://childwild.com/2009/01/15/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-homeschooling/
My stepson was in private school when I got married, and throughout primary school. He goes to a public school now and hates it.
My husband went to private schools from preschool through MIT; I went to public school and then community college, and eventually transferred to a small liberal arts college. He loved school all the way through; I hated it until I got into the tiny private college I wanted to go to.
Which is to say, no one in my family has ever had a good experience with a public school.
I planned to homeschool my kids, so we bought our home in a not-great school district. As luck would have it, the elementary school down the street from our house is the one really good school in the city.
But when my older daughter staged a mutiny last spring and announced that she would be going to kindergarten, we sent her to the lab school at Tufts. It’s a private school, but it costs only a quarter of what the other private schools around here cost.
I have no idea what we’ll do when she ages out of that school after second grade.
I don’t think I can possibly justify paying private school tuition all the way through, but everything I’ve seen and experienced with school makes me feel like having a private school education really does make a HUGE difference on so many levels.
loading....
Here’s one where I would definitely let a little emotion seep into the equation. I would do just about anything to be able to allow my children to go to a better school.
I think it is an investment that is going to pay off for them ten times over in the course of their lives.
Live in less house, whatever other sacrifice–I would do it.
loading....
Having gone through these issues, buying a modest house in a very good school district, and sending my child to private highschool (worth every dime), my advice is to rent in the neighborhood and start getting to know families who have lived there a long time, and especially notice how the children in that neighborhood have “turned out.” Are they polite young adults? What kinds of jobs do they have? Where did they go to college?
Don’t be bamboozled by stats the school district manipulates, or even the press the local paper decides to spotlight on certain students. Do your own anthropological research. You can even start your child in the district, and by the time she is is middle school, you’ll have a good idea of what the district really spits out.
loading....
I have a similar situation. I remarried last year and my wife has a young son. We live in a modest neighborhood but the school is average in our district. I love our home and area, but if we want a better school for our son, we will have to move or go the private route.
We have a couple of years but I share your situation.
loading....
My children traveled with us to twenty different countries, living full time in three of them. We brought then up being read to and having an acute sense that education is the important thing. I was a teacher and my husband a professional – who became a teacher.
That being said- my story stands. The poor level of teaching in high school (the teachers were good, the number of students needing remediation was overwhelming) separated our naturally motivated child from the one who enjoyed life not books. Teachers are so overwhelmed with getting everyone to pass the tests they have no time to motivate the middle. He went to college and finished- she did not.
It was a major mistake to bring them back to an urban community and think we could supplement them to college. (Poor rural farming schools often out do urban poor because the teachers are often the moms and dads of the students….)
It is not ALL the parents – unless you homeschool.
Be careful to think you are the major influence especially if you do not live near extended family.
loading....
A big part of kids success in school depends on the parents involvement. “Good” school/”Bad” school generalizations are averages in most cases. If by buying a less expensive house you can spend more time with them and be more active in the school, they will benefit.
I believe that most people still pay way to much for their neighborhood. (Prices come from the neighborhood or area, not the house). Going for a modest home in a good neighborhood can make all the difference. Not so cheap to be in a dangerous or troubled area though. There are plenty of ‘mature’ communities that have decent HOA rules and fit this description.
If you are very concerned about being in a particular school district but can’t afford to buy there, rent. Renting is not “Throwing money away” and can be the most prudent financial choice for some people at certain times in their life.
Overall, if you choose to buy and you buy too much house, you cut off WAY more choice than you can even anticipate. Think less of a home as an investment and more in regards to its utility (A place to live, plant flowers, build a treehouse and sleep at night). It might appreciate enough to keep up with inflation or it might not. Your investment dollars should go elsewhere (401(k), Roth IRA, 529 for the rugrats). personally, purchase price target should be no more than 1.5 – 2.5 times your annual salary, with 2X being ideal. If you want a nicer house, earn more dough.
just my $.02
-WR
loading....