Ask the Readers: How to Talk About Money with Teenagers?
Published on - April 23rd, 2010 (by J.D. Roth) Most readers here at Get Rich Slowly have their own tale of a financial turnaround. Many of us were just plain dumb with money when we were younger, and it took us years (or decades!) to realize the error of our ways. But what if somebody had cared enough to intervene before we got into serious trouble?
Corinne wrote yesterday looking for help. She’d like to help steer her younger sister in the right direction before she has financial trouble. But how should she do it? What’s the best way to reach a teenager who doesn’t even know they’re financially irresponsible? Here’s Corinne’s question:
I come from a wonderful family, with parents who are great in many ways, but are also just terrible with money. Fortunately, I’ve managed to avoid following in my parents’ footsteps — I’m 25, with a well-paying job, and have started really organizing my finances well and planning for my future.
My younger sister, however, may not be so lucky. She’s 18, about to start college, and just couldn’t care less about being smart with money. I want to guide her and inspire her to learn about personal finance sooner rather than later because I wish someone had done that for me. Do you know of any personal finance books that would appeal to a teenager? Any thoughts on how to frame my advice so that it’s well-received?
This is a great question, especially for this time of year. And while I’d love to be able to say, “Go buy Your Money: The Missing Manual — that’s the best choice!”, I don’t actually think my book is good for a kid out of high school. (My book is good for folks who are serious about their finances, who are motivated to succeed. It doesn’t sound like Corinne’s sister qualifies.)
So what books about money are good for teenagers and young adults? Here are a few top choices:
- I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi. My friend Ramit set out to write a money book for young people, and he succeeded admirably. Even if I had no idea who he was, this would be the first book I’d recommend for most students. Two drawbacks to note: Not everyone likes his tone and style, and the book doesn’t really address the psychology of spending. (Here’s my review.)
- Debt is Slavery by Michael Mihalik. I raved about this book a few years ago. Of all the personal finance books I’ve read, I think this would have been most useful for me when I was in college. It’s not a comprehensive guide to IRAs and stocks and bonds; it’s a short treatise on how to take control of your financial life.
- The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous, and Broke by Suze Orman. This is a pretty comprehensive introduction to personal finance aimed specifically at young adults. There’s almost too much information.
- Reality Check: The Student’s Guide to the Real World by Grant Baldwin. I haven’t read this book; the publisher sent me a copy, and I’ve leafed through it. It gets great reviews at Amazon.
- Get a Financial Life: Personal Finance in Your Twenties and Thirties by Beth Kobliner. This book comes highly recommended, but I haven’t read it.
The second part of Corinne’s question is tricky. How can she give advice to her sister without angering her or making her turn away? I’ve found from my own experience (and from chatting with others) that it’s difficult to get somebody to heed your advice until they’re ready to hear it. They have to come to it on their own. In fact, it’s possible to alienate the person you’re trying to help if you come across as an evangelist. If you push personal-finance books on somebody, they may be offended.
Instead, I think it’s best to lead by example. If Corinne thinks her sister should change, she should subtly show her what smart personal finance looks like, and then contrast that with how her parents are doing. Or maybe Corinne could pick up a copy of I Will Teach You to Be Rich, read it, and then offer to pass it on when she’s finished.
Another smart technique is to think out loud in front of the person you’re trying to help. Say Corinne is buying a car, for example. Even though she may know perfectly well what she wants to do — buy a late-model used car with cash — she might approach her sister and say, “I’m not sure what to do.” If Corinne lays out her options and her thought process, asking her sister’s help, she might be able to help her sister see how she arrives at her eventual decision. (Please note that the car thing is hypothetical; it could be any other sort of financial dilemma.)
The key in these situations is finesse. You want to get your message across, but you want to do it from a position of equality, not superiority. And, if possible, you want to do this so that the other person “owns” the action. That’s how I’d approach it, anyhow.
Have you faced this situation in the past? How did you handle it? How do you think you’d handle it today? How would you try to talk about money with a teenager? What books would you recommend? How would you get them to even care?
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i have two cousins that are graduating from high school this summer and i really want to influence them in the area of personal finance. being a mentor is so important, i actually got inspired by a GRS post I read and emailed one of my cousins about credit cards. the email was sincere and heartfelt and i think that came across, i even shared my own college credit card diaster story. She was genuinely appreciative. i brought two copies of The Wealthy Barber for each of my cousins – I plan to give that alone with money as their graduation gifts. I like that book because it reads like a novel. love your story, poster #49 (Robert W) – its always interesting how wealthy people place a high premium on knowledge.
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LetSeat (#50}: that sounds *exactly* like my dad! Actually, he (and my mum) were great at teaching me, so I was really lucky. But when I think about it, it was all “this is what we did / this is what we are doing” stuff. And it stuck. I remember the first time I was about to get a place of my own (rented), and I wanted to figure out how much rent I could afford, the first thing I did was ring my dad and ask him what all their home-related bills were, and if I should be budgeting more or less for them for the type and location of property I was after.
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I think you have to talk to them on their own terms (I know, easier said than done).
I also think you have to have an idea of what they’re going thru, and the pressures they face, rather than just spouting off advice like “Save your money…..don’t spend.”
If you talk to your children with some sense of “I know, I’ve been there before”, I think they’re much more likely to follow your advice.
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I think this is a really useful article. Being in my early twenties I feel as though this sort of advice would be difficult to take aged 14/15. However if you introduce these lessons from an early age or these hypothetical situations then it might slowly feed into the unconscious and means you don’t have to have a ‘talk’ later in life.
I just remember asking my sister why my dad took me to open a bank account aged 7. She taught me very simply about interest. The thought of earning money for doing nothing started me off on my upwards journey of saving. I’m so glad I started to save from 16 as after 5 years of compounding I’m making enough interest a year to pay for a 10 day trip to California!
I’ve archived your articles on approaching these matters with kids as well as the simple dollar articles from Trent but I love that this site brings up these issues that really do come up often.
In terms of giving someone advice who isn’t ready to hear it I’ve found something more difficult. Someone asking you that they want to be better with their finances but not taking any advice that you give. I literally gave her some links to your website about the basics of saving and why it’s good to be in control of your finances and guess what…I’ve heard nothing since. She was almost broke when she asked me and then a week later her mum sent her a lump sum. She’s 29. Sometimes people will never want to hear it. I guess that’s their loss.
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First, I highly suggest the millionaire next door, then, before giving it to her, ask her if she thinks that Lindsay Lohan is a millionaire. After she says yes, pull up he news story of her being $600,000.00 in credit card debt. Then show her the book “The Millionaire Next Door” and let her know how real millionaires are.
Being a bright eyed, bushy tailed teen she’ll probably think “Then I don’t want to be a millionaire, I want to enjoy my life” which is teenage-speak for “I will work until the day I die,” they just don’t know it yet.
Some examples to teach her about saving (this would ordinarily work on someone younger but its worth a try). Take her to the mall, hand her 20 bucks, tell her to try and not spend it, and walk around with her. After a while, hand her another dollar and tell her that is the interest on her 20 dollars (I know, it’s a high yield account
), and after that, hand her another dollar, and so fourth. I guarantee she won’t spend that twenty bucks because she will want to see how much she can get out of it.
After she has collected all of the money and you’re about to leave, explain to her that this was a lesson in interest (if she hadn’t figured it out). Then tell her, that her credit card bill is due and she owes you $106.00 plus $14.00 interest. It will help show both sides of the coin. You can either get paid for having money, or get charged for being broke. Hopefully this doesn’t sound too outlandish
.
Thanks,
Timothy
Wealth Artisan Team Member
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I’m running a project with my kid this summer (she’s 14). She’s agreed in advance that she wants to do it.
She’s going to have to comb craigslist, job boards, and newspapers and find a job that she can get with just a HS diploma. She’ll have to find out how much it pays and make some decisions based on that.
She’ll have to find a place to live with how much she can afford from that job. More decisions to make, more newspaper/craigslist hunting. An apt? A roommate? rent a room in someone’s house? go in with 4 other girls and rent a house?
She’ll have to set up an “ideal” budget, either in YNAB or excel or pen & paper.
Then, every 5 days or so in real time will be considered a month in the game time. I’m going to randomly send her emails with statements like, “you’ve got a flat tire. Repair costs $80″ and she’ll have to adjust her budget accordingly.
She’s excited about doing this.
It wouldn’t work if she didn’t want to do it, but we’re both looking forward to it.
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For the last 4 yrs I’ve tried to express the importance of saving money to my now 20 yr old son. He would get a court ordered 40 per month allowance, but yet he never seemed to have a dime. I found out that he was “loaning” lunch money to his friends and no one ever paid him back. His father would pick him up every other weekend and my son would return with a lot of “gifts” that his father would buy for him. When my son was 16 I suggested that it was time for him to find a job. Of course that didn’t work out, he had very narrow range of where he wanted to work and a girlfriend. The girlfriend is now out of the picture.
Long story short, and I’ve always peppered our dinner conversations with financial responsibilities and the importance of saving. My son now has a part-time job while he goes to college.
He enjoys the cash in his wallet, but I don’t think the conversations that we had really hit home until I bluntly stated that before I met his father I had no debts and saved 30k in a period of 2 yrs. The expression on his face was priceless.
I was pleased, because I think I finally got through to him. He’s now setting aside 35% each time he gets paid.
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Great read!
Does anyone have any suggestions for younger children ages 6-7. My child loves to read, and I would love for him to start saving his money from a very young age.
Thank you
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Ramit isn’t rude, you just don’t get the jokes. (I ranted about this for a few minutes on the old post that’s linked here, lol. Couldn’t help myself!) Anyway, I’d definitely recommend IWTYTBR… but not so much Millionaire Next Door. I’m an early 20-something and consider myself fairly advanced intellectually but even I had trouble slogging through that book.
Frankly, it was published a long time ago (when the people you’re trying to recommend it to were children, even BABIES) and its references just don’t jibe. 50% of millionaires don’t spend over x amount on watches and suits? Teenagers don’t know people who wear watches and suits, except their teachers and not even then. Not to mention its overtly polemical treatment of taxes and recommending that all kids go to school to be attorneys, tax attorneys, estate attorneys, or accountants.
Don’t get me wrong, I liked the book. It’s just… old, super-educated white guys talking about money. Case in point: I quoted a particularly interesting section on facebook and tagged a bunch of friends in the note and didn’t get a single response (I’ve got a very active facebook profile with an extremely diverse population of friends). Someone who has already caught on to the basics of personal finance — who “gets the bug” so to speak — will enjoy it, but it is certainly not a primer or even required reading.
I Will Teach You to Be Rich; buy it for them. You may not like it but they will, I promise. And as outrageous as Ramit is, it gets their (our) attention.
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Oh, and I wanted to add… JD did not actually recommend The Millionaire Next Door, so my commented wasn’t directed at him. I think a commenter mentioned it, or maybe I just imagined it and was subconsciously looking for a reason to go on a diatribe about it? hehe
While I’m here, though, I do want to say that I would not recommend Dame Ramsey for young people, either. At best, he is addressing older couples or at least people who have already gotten into *very serious* debt and need help getting out of it. Young people do not, in my estimation, need to be “gazelle-intense”. As an example, in IWTYTBR (now who’s getting comped, eh?), salary allocation goes something like this: fixed costs 50-60%, investments 10%, savings goals 5-10% and “guilt-free spending money” 20-35%. Older, married couples or families with significant credit card or student debt, who are Dave’s principle audience, WILL NOT have a salary allocation like that. They are, as he suggests, throwing every possible penny at their debt. A young person who is just starting out does not need that kind of intense, frugal-minded lecturing. A young person has money to burn, and what is money for but doing what you want? As long as they are saving adequately and not carrying credit card debt, why shouldn’t they have fun? And Dave doesn’t set them up to do that. (Of course, after you complete the baby steps, he of course gives you absolute freedom to have as much fun as possible, but it’s sort of an after-thought tagged onto the other 10 or so chapters of “get out of debt now” advice whereas Ramit advises young people to cut down on stuff they don’t care about so they can spend extravagantly on the stuff they do care about.)
Full disclosure: Ramit, Ramsey, and Millionaire Next Door are the only money books I’ve bought and read. (Beyond blogs like JD’s and Ramit’s.) So that’s why I have such strong opinions on all three. I certainly can’t speak to the other books being mentioned here.
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@60,
I agree with you about Dave Ramsey. I read and reviewed The Total Money Makeover and the best thing I got out of it were the stories of how other people got themselves out a huge mess. I’m 18.
There’s just not a lot of practical advice for a teenager or college student.
There’s also a good lesson in this though: If you don’t make (too many) mistakes to begin with, you never have to be “gazelle” intense.
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Get A Financial Life is the best. I was in my 30s and utterly financially illiterate when I read it. It got me on the path to where I have no had no credit card debt for almost a decade now, and am in a position to pay off my house. There have been many other good things since, including The Millionaire Next Door, but this was my ground zero for beginning to think about these things.
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I showed my bro-in-law and my cousin (both in their early 20s) my annual 401k statements for the past decade, to show them what saving anywhere from 10% – 20% of my income over that time has done for me. The first couple years were kinda slow (dot com bust), but over the years and with help from compounding interest, I’ve been able to save a nice little chunk towards retirement.
One of the guys was pretty motivated to start saving. The other shrugged and said, “I have plenty of time to worry about it later”.
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After raising many children and grand children I have learned that if you want to know what they know – ask them to help you out with something you want to accomplish.
So, ask your sister to help you find ways to save for something you really want to purchase in the future. Make it a very expensive item that you really will be buying – prehaps a house – and you want to pay for mostly in cash.
Engage her help in the ways that you can save for that item and then praise her for her ideas even if you have already thought of them. “Mums the word”. This will motivate her to think of more ways since this will be a long term savings project. It will also open her eyes to the fact that she will need to start saving at some time in the near future for those larger items too.
This is the perfect way to help her learn how to think about saving and carry through on her own. It will also open a possible long term dialog for the both of you so that you can help her when she needs it. You might also be surprised to find out that she already has a lot of ideas for her future and how she is going to get there.
If you have to act as if you don’t have the knowledge you need, then do so. After all you will not be in a contest with her. You will be helping each other and bonding at the same time. This can truly lead to a wonderful life long relationship for the both of you.
Then, if she asks for your help – give it. You can offer your help to her after you have shown her what you can/have done but be sure to give her credit for helping you no matter how small her efforts may be. Make her feel that she is smart enough to accomplish her dreams too.
At a later time in the future if the opportunity arises to read books on the subject then you might want to ask her to read one while you read the other. Then you can either exchange books or just exchange the information between you.
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I’m late jumping in here, but I wanted to let Corinne know that the book-in-care-package is a GREAT idea, even if your sister doesn’t read it right away.
My dad gave me a copy of “The Automatic Millionaire” a number of years ago. I had other (stupid) priorities at the time, but about two years ago I finally sat down to read it. It had been in the back of my consciousness all that time, and when I finally sat down, I was READY for the information.
Did I make some financial mistakes before getting around to reading the book? Absolutely. But the book was already on my shelf when I was finally ready to actually put the concepts into practice.
If you combine those approaches, your sister will be ready to read the book you choose even sooner than I was!
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Every Parents should know how to talk to therir teenager about finances.Thanks for sharing this post.
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