Money and Relationships: A Matter of Control?
Published on - April 30th, 2010 (Modified on - May 3rd, 2010) (by J.D. Roth) Last week I gave a talk at Powell’s bookstore here in Portland. During the question-and-answers session, one woman posed an interesting question. (I’ve forgotten her name, so let’s call her Kim to make things easy.)
Kim has been aggressively paying down her debt, and is pleased with her progress. However, her boyfriend thinks she’s doing it wrong. If I understand correctly, Kim’s boyfriend believes she should pay down each debt part way (perhaps a half or a third) so that none of her obligations is near its limit. He believes that this will increase Kim’s credit score. Kim wanted to know if this was a good idea.
Too much control
Obviously, it’s difficult to give a complete answer without knowing more about the situation. Still, I think this is a great example of how financial decisions are often about more than just the math involved. There are three basic approaches to debt here:
- Tackle the debts in order of interest rate, knocking off the high-interest debts first. Mathematically, this is the best option because — if you follow through — you’ll pay less interest in the long run.
- Tackle the debts in order of balance, starting with the debts you owe least on first. Psychologically, this is usually the best option because you can get some quick wins, knocking off several debts in a short amount of time. This is the method Dave Ramsey recommends. (And so do I.)
- Or, as Kim’s boyfriend recommends, try to coordinate payments so that each debt is paid down to a certain level before focusing on a specific obligation. For various esoteric reasons, this method should have the greatest impact on your credit score.
My recommendation during the question-and-answer period? No surprise: I told Kim that she should use the approach that makes her most comfortable, the approach that actually leads her to pay off her debts most quickly. I think it’s great that her boyfriend is eager for her to improve her credit score, but I think it’s dangerous to be dogmatic, especially if it involved becoming controlling about another person’s financial situation.
I believe it’s vital that both partners have an equal say in the finances, and that one person doesn’t take the role of “controller”, especially if, as in Kim’s case, it’s to move from a perfectly good option to a seemingly better option. If the option is good and your partner is happy with it, then leave well enough alone. Why pursue financial perfection at the cost of your relationship?
Not enough control
On the other hand, it’s important not to be completely ignorant about your partner’s financial situation. Recently, an anonymous user at Ask Metafilter posed an interesting question. She writes (in part):
My husband and I have been married for almost nine years and we have one giant recurring problem. For our entire relationship, even before we got married, he’s been full of nasty financial surprises.
[...]
The trick is that aside from all of the bullshit surrounding finances, Sam is a fantastic husband and father to our kids. I’ve got health issues — big ones — and Sam has been unfailingly supportive. He’s considerate, sweet, with unending patience with the kids, and just an overall good guy, except for this one, glaring area.
The full question describes the “nasty financial surprises” in detail. Suffice it to say that Sam, the man in this relationship, has accumulated some “surprise” debt, and has lied about his financial situation.
I’ve thought a lot about both of these situations. I feel like Kim’s story and Sam’s story show two extremes:
- In the first instance, one partner may be trying to exert too much control over a financial relationship.
- In the latter case, the partner isn’t exerting enough control over the financial relationship.
This made me wonder: How do you find balance in a financial partnership? I’m wondering how do you balance the fact that both partners are adults while recognizing that sometimes people need help?
Striving for balance
In my own relationship, Kris has always given me the space I need. Because we have separate finances, she’s had to exercise extreme trust that I’ll follow through on my obligations. Even when I was in debt, I did my best not to let her down. Sure, I may have been struggling to make ends meet, but I never missed a payment. I always paid my debts and other monthly obligations before spending on fun.
Still, I’m sure she was nervous at times. I remember that in 1994 she was reluctant to buy a house because of my debt. I think if she’d known the true extent of my financial problems, she might not have been so easy-going about the situation.
All of this is a stark reminder that money isn’t just about the math. There aren’t any magic formulas to help you decide what to do if one partner is a saver and another is a spender.
So, I’m wondering how you folks handle these situations in real life. I’m not just talking about the spender/saver dichotomy, and I’m not just talking about joint and separate finances. I want to know how you decide how much control each partner has over the finances.
Regardless of whether your finances are joint or separate, how do you handle situations like these? If you were dating, would you demand that your partner’s credit score be a priority? Would you insist that his debt be retired (or reduced to a certain point) before making a long-term commitment? Or are finances completely irrelevant?
This article is about Psychology, Relationships
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES




Shane, unfortunately, your girlfriend will probably never use those clothes, assuming she is the same age as you, this is a style transition period, from juniors-department type purchases during school years to working-woman type purchases, besides the weight issue. But don’t tell her to get rid of her clothes because she is now older and fatter.
That may just be an issue of saying you need that room and to fit her stuff into a closet, she’ll get rid of whatever or move it to her mom’s. Unfortunately, the issue of her paying down debt while living with you should have been clearer before she moved in. If she is the type who would move back with her parents while you are the type to purchase a house, you are at different points in life. You can’t go back, so she needs to move forward. It doesn’t matter what her living there is costing you, she is receiving a benefit of $X a month from you that you are gifting her to be used to pay down debt, and if she is not using that excess $X responsibly, you are not willing to continue allowing her that amount for purses and new clothes.
Adrian, I assume you are talking about me, but I do not understand? I make a good income so have never had the issues about making a significant amount less than a partner, and I have never been “scorned” by a man due to finances. I also am the same Kat who told Shane his girlfriend is using him. If you were to take Brett’s situation, but have the woman be the higher earner, telling her boyfriend that she will sacrifice something once a week, he must sacrifice something daily, and this is to test if in 10 years he’d be a good father, I’d say she was nuts. I’d say a woman who won’t spend $3 on a gift to her boyfriend because she isn’t obligated to spend money on him is selfish. It’s only a war of the sexes if all you focus on is gender instead of the point of the arguments, in this case my point remains, regardless of the gender of the people in the situation.
loading....
It seems there is a mixed view point on my little experiment. I want everyone to understand that this was a mutual decision between her and I. Somehow, it has been misinterpreted as some that I forced her into giving up coffee which is her daily pleasure. There are other ways to help one get through the day and I hope she finds them. She and I talked about her purchasing a mini keurig for her desk which would be a large initial cost but far cheaper than the daily trip to Starbucks.
Having “allowances” for each other in a marriage with combined incomes is a great idea. I believe the allowance should be equal regardless of who makes more, but the amount should fit into your budget. If she were to spend her allowance on a daily coffee, that’s fine. It’s her money to spend how she sees fit. However, some people don’t learn a daily habit like that adds up. So if you also want to buy a new pair of shoes or a new dress (or in my case I splurge on my hockey equipment sometimes) that you shouldn’t spend your money on a temporary daily pick me up.
@Nicole
She admitted it was a bad habit, I offered a suggestion. When I have a problem, I also talk about it so someone can help me. Sorry it pushes your buttons that someone wants to help you with your problems. I know many people who are that way, but that’s not my girlfriend. I personally never understood such a mentality because if you don’t want help, then why complain? It doesn’t really make you feel better, it just brings down others around you. If you don’t want me to offer you any help, that’s fine – lets not ever go out then.
@Kat
It’s a good thing we don’t date either. You seem to be judging my worth as a partner based on the fact that I won’t buy her $3 of processed caffeinated beverages. I would prefer she does that and sees the $$ difference herself. OR she may realize that she doesn’t need the soda at all.
loading....
I am in a 2 year relationship right now and we are pretty different when it comes to money. I like saving alot and she likes to spend. Obviously it brings up fights randomly, but its something we have worked at to compromise. I spend more than i used and she spends less. It has worked out pretty well, even though i too get the urges sometimes just to save! when it comes to deciding relationships, i dont think debt should be anywhere near the top of things to worry about. As long as its not a secret, i think you should be able to judge if the person is worth it or not. If you really love the person, a 10k CC bill shouldnt stop you from moving ahead in the relationship.
Preferred Financial Services
loading....
Be on the same team – that’s critical in my opinion, when it comes to marriage and finances. Keep your money together (not separate), working toward the same goals. There is equality between partners – what’s his is hers, and what’s hers is his. Agree upon long-term goals, and short-term budgets. Give each other some latitude for individual decision-making, except on big purchases. And remember that your relationship comes first, not the money.
All of this should be discussed ahead of time, in advance of marriage. If two people have issues, then there will be trouble. Alleviate that by being open and honest, starting before being engaged.
loading....
Brett, I was talking about HER complaining about money and not doing anything about it. I have no idea why you’re yelling at me– did you not read what I wrote? Though reading through the rest of your comments, I see that that comment applies to you too– you’re doing a lot of complaining about your girlfriend and then yelling at people who offer support or suggestions. Very unpleasant.
loading....
In my experience it all depends on the material you start with.
Like Erin, my first marriage was to an irresponsible man. Thankfully I knew enough to keep his name off my accounts and not enter into any joint loans until he proved himself able to save. He never did.
After our divorce I wouldn’t consider dating anyone who wasn’t financially responsible. My current husband is careful about spending, so I never hesitated over merging finances . Since our marriage 12 years ago, I manage themoney and have never had a “surprise.”
loading....
I actually did basic approaches 1 and 2 with the help of my spouse… who was still my girlfriend back then. Adding to the approach of tackling the highest interest debt, in my case were all credit cards, I looked for new ones that offered 0% APR on balance transfers and moved everything I could to that new card. It allowed me to pay off balances without incurring interest. Soon enough I was debt free. Now I have excellent credit and only spend money that I have.
It’s important to note that when things are going bad and you’ve been dealing with it your way and yet you’re still getting negative results, it helps to have a supportive partner who is strong enough to tell you that you’re wrong. And you have to have the will to set aside your ego and trust your partner. If I didn’t listen to my spouse back then, I probably would still be in debt.
loading....
@Brett:
Testing someone to see if they’re quality material usually leads to a lot of resentment and results in one or the other leaving.
Personally I think your standards are way too high for the length of your relationship. 10 months, and you’re wondering how she’d behave with a kid 10 years from now? You’re putting the cart way before the horse here. A daily coffee is not something to nag about, or something to judge her parenting skills by.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re trying to control what your gf does in order to make her more like you. Trying to force someone to become someone they’re not never turns out well.
loading....
I’ve been Married 17 years. Hubby was a spend thrift and in Debt when we married. I made twice the money he did. We moved right after the Wedding so we opened new joint accounts. even as I struggled to pay down Credit card bills (Working a casual second job while he worked nights) he went out and bought new Golf Clubs. I handled the finances, we did buy a house, have 2 kids and paid off the Dang CCs. During this period we evolved so we had the joint checking account for all household bills and we each has a credit union account (legally joint accounts) for our own spending. Then he decided to go back to school and finish his education. We built up some credit card debt during this time. When he graduated, he decided he wanted to be in charge of his own paycheck. So I started hadning him bills to pay. I also begged him to pay off his cc debt. We both changed job within a year and moved 30 milesx to a bigger house. He started traveling for work and paid his credit cards using his work reimbrusements and nothing extra while eating out everyday, buying our boys good sporting equipemnt and stuff for the new house. We had been sending our boys to PArochial school and high school tution was going to be 3x the cost we had been paying. Hubby said “That sould be no problem on my income.” Finally, after me begging he took a good hard look and discovered the “money mind games” (his words) he had been playing with himself. Eventually I got him to turn his checkbook over to me to handle. He had money from each paycheck going to a crdit union account to cover gas, lunches, eating out and spending money. I am snowballing the credit cards. We’ve got 28 months to pay and then I can tackle his school loans. We do have our oldest son in Parochial high school. That slows us down but that was a conscious choice. And we make good money. He’s an Engineer and I work in IT as a manager.
Meanwhile I am working with my High school son on money management. I get paid once a month and I transfer his lunch money for the month when I get paid. It’s a generous $75 a month. He can pack his lunch and keep the money for spending if he wants. I am dumbfounded when every month he writes a check for the whole thing and deposits it into his school meal account. This past month he tells me he is low on money. He was off for spring break 6 days and still go the full amount. He bounght breakfast one week. I explained to him that this was the lesson he was to learn, he needs to make choices. He packed his lunch several days. Then he had the gall to complain that I did not make his sandwich one day.
loading....
Shane, I agree with the person who said it’s a bit awkward at this point to change the agreement, but you do need to discuss with her that there has to be some financial accountability on her end. Basically, you’re giving her a free ride, and she’s taking advantage of you. Sounds like she’s never had to stand on her own, so it really might not be a bad idea to have her move out. Of course, that might cause some major relationship issues for you…
Also, I’d like to respectfully suggest that if you feel like marriage is still years away, then perhaps she isn’t the right girl for you. The right one will hit you like a ton of bricks, and you’ll WANT to spend the rest of your life with her. The timing in terms of your age won’t really be an issue.
Brett, if your girlfriend is struggling with the no-Starbucks thing, suggest some alternatives to her. They make some really nice creamers these days. Also, you can buy big bottles of coffee additives at grocery stores or Sam’s Club. Stuff like French vanilla, caramel, etc. (Personally, I buy vanilla, cherry, and raspberry because I love Sonic-style soft drinks.) She doesn’t have to feel deprived; it’s really about finding less expensive ways to enjoy things.
As for us, I handle the finances. I’m privileged to be a SAHW most of the time (I tutor every spring in a local middle school). I’m the one who is anal about our finances, so I handle them. I also do my best to pay the least for our expenses (using coupons, finding ways to cut down on electricity, finding less expensive options for our sick cat’s meds, etc.). We did have an issue early on with my husband’s use of the debit card. He’d lose or forget to take his receipts, so I wouldn’t know what he’d spent. This was also back before everyone started x-ing out account numbers on receipts. His debit number was stolen TWICE, and that was a nightmare to deal with. So, I get a certain amount of cash out each payday and divvy it up into various categories. We each get an allowance. If he finds he has an emergency or whatever, he uses the credit card. He no longer carries a debit card. This works for us, as it saves my sanity.
loading....
If anything, I feel guilty that I am controlling my family’s finances too much. As I said above, my wife’s just not interested. I certainly don’ try to block her out of the decision making, and we trust each other wholeheartedly. At the same time, sometimes she can’t buy me a birthday present without me noticing. She doesn’t know the pin # of her ATM card so she has to get cash from me. Stuff like that. She doesn’t seem frustrated or anything, I just want her to be free to make her own decisions. I did push her to close her checking account right after we were married, but I have since asked if she wants her own account and she does not. I have mentioned other ideas, e.g. an allowance for each of us, but she thought it was silly… We generally don’t budget, we just rely on each others’ good judgment and shared frugal (cheap) nature (which I have jokingly referred to as the bedrock of our relationship
Anyone have suggestions how I can really verify that my wife feels she has control over our finances, and encourage her that she is free to exercise that control?
loading....
I forgot to mention that debt really wasn’t an issue for us when we married. Neither of us had students loans or credit card debt. He was paying back a loan to his dad for his car, but that was all. We put all our financial cards on the table before we married and discussed how we’d handle finances.
If he’d been deeply mired in debt, I don’t know what I would have done, to be honest. At that age (I was 24), I really don’t think I had the financial savvy to know marriage to someone in serious debt is a dangerous thing.
loading....
@ Steve
At the very least she needs enough knowledge to be able to function if you die or are incapacitated. Looking at your will and life insurance is important to do periodically and it is a perfect segue into “Honey, I want you to understand the system I have going here.” She might still resist the knowledge and responsibility, but sometimes you need to pull her in.
You can also just call a meeting. I often make an appt with DH to sit down and say “we have to make this decision [new appliance/car, investments, etc] and I don’t want to make it alone.” So we talk about it and then I do what we decide.
loading....
It amazes me how resentful some people seem of their spouses. Everything has to be tit-for-tat, and everyone’s keeping score all the time (well, not everyone, but enough people).
My wife is currently working part-time. She’s free not to work at all if she likes as long as I am working. If I were to want to stop working we’d discuss that (although I don’t see that happening anytime soon). I don’t feel like she owes me anything because I pay all the bills. I don’t make her pay half the rent for the sake of ‘fairness’.
As far as ‘control’ goes, we generally discuss with each other before buying anything expensive (say, more that $200 or so), but neither of us is irresponsible, so we probably wouldn’t even bring up a large purchase unless we already knew we could afford it. I don’t care a bit whether my wife spends $4/day on coffee or not. Even if I did, it’s such a small amount that it wouldn’t be worth fighting over.
I guess in general I make most of the decisions regarding the money because I earn most of it, but my decisions tend to be things like “I’m putting $10,000 into our house down payment fund and $5,000 into our vacation account.” My wife generally has no problem with these sorts of things, although I tell her before I actually do them, in case she has other ideas.
I just don’t get the demand for equity, and the bitterness over things like “I make more so I have to pay more of the bills.” So what? That doesn’t make me bitter, that makes me feel like a good provider and caretaker. It’s I can be proud of — the ability to support my family.
My wife can pretty much have anything she wants. Although I asked her yesterday if she wanted anything special out of a chunk of money that’s becoming available to us in the next couple weeks, and she really couldn’t come up with anything. She wanted an ice cream attachment for her kitchen mixer. Absolutely she can have that, and I’m not going to be resentful about buying it for her. When I ask about buying something for myself, she always says it’s ok if I buy it as long as I can pay the rent and put food on the table, she knows I’m not going to do anything ridiculous.
A lot of this is based on trust and similar viewpoints, but a lot of it is also based on being responsible for a unit larger than yourself. I don’t earn “my money” and she earns “her money” — we earn money that funnels through each of us into a partnership. If you make an analogy to a business, I think that claiming part of the money belongs to her or me is akin to saying the sales department gets more of the profits than the manufacturing department because they “earn more” — it makes no sense. The goal is to build a stronger company (or marriage) by allocating money where it can be best used, not to keep tally sheets of who earned what and who owes who.
loading....
To answer the original issue, each couple needs to find a balance. My gut says that Kim’s bf should make his suggestion and back off, since they don’t have financial obligations to each other, yet.
However, Sam’s wife might want to seek some outside couple’s counseling and/or (if not in a community-property state) set up independent accounts of her own to insulate herself from her husband’s bad financial management. In a community property state, it doesn’t matter whether accounts are joint or not — debts and assets accumulated during the marriage belong to both parties. Basically, her husband is fantastic except when it comes to the family’s safety, and that needs to be addressed.
Our family’s financial control story is pretty much the same as most of the folks who are long-married with kids. When we married in 1994 (!), DH and I both had slightly negative net worth and no savings, and made equal amounts of money. DH had a fiscally irresponsible first marriage, so his credit was bad when we met. Turns out that I was better with personal finances, so I took that role on. When we married we made approximately equal salaries, but we figured that over time we would each have periods of time when we’d stay home with kids, go back to school, take a sabbatical, retire, etc., so we immediately pooled our finances to make everything OURS, not mine or his.
In detail:
1. We have a joint vision of how we want to live and what we’re willing to do and give up to get there. This is regularly renegotiated. We call it the “5 year plan”, but some parts are up to 20 years, as that’s DH’s likely retirement age, and when the kids will (hopefully) be self-supporting.
2. All accounts are either joint or rarely-used.
3. We each get a “no questions asked” allowance every week. This is absolutely necessarily when one person is not drawing a salary (now both, but DH for several years as a stay-at-home dad).
4. One of us handles daily finances (me), and one of us focuses on our investment portfolio (MBA DH). We make sure the other person understands what’s going on and would be able to cope if something happens to the other.
5. We talk about significant purchases or recurring expenses. Sometimes heatedly.
So far, so good!
loading....
This is discussion is so fascinating. I think about a lot this topic, though, I’m currently single. I have a lot of debt from graduate school and a little bit of credit card debt. I have actually made a decision to not date too seriously until I’ve paid down X amount of my debt. I’m not necessarily avoiding dating when presented with the opportunity, but I’m slow to get serious with anyone, because nothing in me wants to bring a massive amount of debt to a serious relationship. All the comments and reading other people’s perspectives on the topic have been really interesting and helpful. Thanks, J.D., for writing the post that got the conversation started.
loading....
@Tyler: I think you have it completely right. I completely agree with you and think your marriage sounds great.
loading....
@ Tyler
I think you have summed up my marriage as well. Love of and for each other is first and foremost. We don’t keep score (he earns 3 times what I do) over who spends what and don’t fight over money or purchases. So many of our married friends always fight over money and we just don’t get it.
I have to admit that I get tired of hearing stories from my girl friends related to the “tit for tat” idea. They always sound so unhappy, and then I feel guilty because married my sweetheart was the best thing I’ve ever done. I wish I had the secret to how my husband and I funtion in regard to money to share with them, but I think it is just our personalities???
I should add that I handle all of our money and he gets once a month updates….because that’s all he wants. I do however wish, that I could find a way to make him more interested in our finances. But no matter what I say or do his only answer is “ok”…..any suggestions?
loading....
…how do you handle situations like these? I don’t know yet! I didn’t handle it well the first time around, and now that I’m in a new relationship, it’s a big concern for me. I think this guy’s got a great handle on finance overall, but the devil is in the details.
If you were dating, would you demand that your partner’s credit score be a priority? Credit score is not as all-fired important as I used to believe. I’m thinking if the good habits are there, the score itself is not critical. It’ll come up eventually.
Would you insist that his debt be retired (or reduced to a certain point) before making a long-term commitment? Consumer/student debt should be minimal or non-existant and house/car debt are acceptable, though preferably not brand new debt in either case.
Or are finances completely irrelevant? Though in a perfect world they would be, we’re most definitely NOT in a perfect world. Thus, they are not irrelevant.
loading....
I handled all the bills and finances with my ex-husband because I was more responsible and more comfortable with bills, and he was happy to let me handle it. We shared accounts, credit cards, etc. (We split up for reasons not related to finances.)
But it’s interesting because with my current husband, he wanted to take over all our finances. It took some time and a lot of discussion to adjust to that because I was used to being in that role. We have seperate accounts and credit cards, which I am not crazy about but it’s a small concession that makes him happy.
When we first got together, we had an incredibly painful “come to Jesus” talk about spending habits and my personal debt. But since we both put all our cards out on the table, our finances are healthy and on the road to recovery. The only your personal arrangement will work is with lots of communication and agreements and commitments to your shared goals, expectations, and plans.
loading....
I’ve been with my boyfriend for almost 3 years. We graduated college last year with a lot of student loans. I’m paying them down by myself while his parents are helping him out with 2/3 of his loans. He’s currently living at home and trying to get his business venture off the ground, but he’s not employed in a full or part-time job.
We have different views about spending. He likes the best of everything. I used to be like that but now I practice frugal living and cut back on unnecessary expenses. We are pretty open about our finances so no nasty financial surprises for me. He definitely has potential to earn a lot of money but the question is when?
As for a long term commitment – I would like to know that he can help pay for expenses and it’s not a one sided deal. If we were thinking about marriage, I would like for him to be in a stable financial state – making an income, paying off some of his student loans and credit card debt, and saving more (I don’t think he has a savings account or emergency fund at this point since he put most of his money into his business).
I would love to say that money doesn’t play a role in relationships, but I believe it does. I don’t want to control how he spends his money, but I want him to realize that saving for the future is important to me if were to have kids and be able to plan for retirement.
Ideally my future husband and I will have a joint account for paying off household expenses (we each put in a percentage of our income) and keep the rest in our separate accounts. As long as both parties contribute fairly, then I think it should work out. Ideal, but maybe not too realistic. Open communication about finances is a must in relationships!
loading....
Andy: “I have to admit that I get tired of hearing stories from my girl friends related to the “tit for tat” idea. They always sound so unhappy, and then I feel guilty because married my sweetheart was the best thing I’ve ever done.”
This has totally been bothering me too! I don’t know if I should feel lucky for me or sad for them. I’m always feeling guilty about it even though I shouldn’t.
re: suggestions: Talk about life goals. Read Your Money or Your Life. Talk about the path you will be taking together and dreams for the future, even if they’re not set in stone or you don’t know what they are yet.
Also, like Tyler, I’m the breadwinner this year. But … most women professors I know are so grateful that her spouse is willing to be a trailing spouse and support her career, that whether or not he brings in additional income seems like a very minor point in the grand scheme of things. (Excuse the messed up grammar in the previous sentence.)
loading....
Very good post and I enjoyed the comments too! Most people had a lot to say about it whic is good because that means it was beneficial.
loading....
Tyler, your situation sounds great. It also sounds like you have a nice gap between household income & outgo, which surely helps a lot.
I can think of four couples I know who are roughly in their mid-30s, do not have kids, don’t seem to be planning on having any, and only one person works. I confess it seems weird to me, and not something I’d easily embrace.
However I think Dave’s comment (#34) is the most important point – values (and interests) are more important than money. Plus, we obviously don’t know how people are going to change over time anyway!
Anyway, I’m single and when I date I do pay attention to money clues (type of car, type of job, amount tipped, style of living), but it’s all part of information gathering – I don’t make hard and fast decisions based on what I observe. I suppose if I were in a serious relationship I would want to have all information out on the table long before getting married or living together. It’s really hard to imagine sharing all that with someone, but at least I know I’m in good fiscal shape.
loading....
I guess Brett is also testing whether his girlfriend is the type of person who can put up with being tested!
loading....
I don’t think money issues should make or break a marriage necessarily, though sometimes they do. Complete compatibility on all fronts just doesn’t happen. Someone spends more, someone does more dishes. You can seethe in resentment, or you can talk about it. The important thing is communication, I think. Talking, and listening, trying to focus on mutual goals – and having some empathy. For instance, from my perspective, the Netflix subscription is a waste. My husband loves it. So as long as we’re solvent, and slowly improving our financial shape, why worry? There’s a lot more to life than your account balances. Oh – married 23 years. He did the finances at first, and was very bad at it. I do them now, and we’re both much happier.
loading....
Tyler (@64) – Thank you! I agree, & our marriage finances work similarly.
——————
I also want to speak up about this idea of evaluating potential life partners to see if they’re good financial matches. It sounds like good (and obvious, really) advice to have a completely open & honest discussion up front, and to choose someone with goals and habits compatible with your own.
Here’s my contratian perspective: I am forever grateful that my husband didn’t do that with me!
He is frugal, and simply doesn’t want very much. I like to spend, and I like pretty things. I also had over $70,000 in combined student loan and credit card debt when we married. He knew I had student loans, but he didn’t know the totals and he didn’t know I had credit card debt. We just never talked about it before marriage. I have handled our finances since we were married, and I didn’t tell him the full extent of the problems until I finally felt like I had to.
When I eventually did a full financial monty, he could’ve, justifiedly, done the whole angry you’ve-misled-me meltdown, but he didn’t. I was completely in the wrong, but he approached it as a joint problem for us to solve together. And we did.
We’ve been married 15 years now, and we paid off the last of my debts a dozen years ago. We’re doing fine, we’re debtless except for a tiny mortgage, and we talk regularly about finances. We’re happy, even though my natural inclination will always be to spend and his inclination will be to make do.
To me, these litmus tests (will he succeed at giving up soda? will she ever pay full price for something?) aren’t the way to go, because people and relationships are far more complex than a test like that can measure. Attitudes matter. Values matter, intentions matter.
I could’ve dismissed my husband-to-be as a ascetic tightwad, and he could’ve kicked me to the curb for being a frivolous spendthrift. But we’re each more complex. What matters is not the one-off mistakes, the bad habits and lapses in judgment; what matters is what kind of people we are in total. . . . are we kind, and generous in thought and action? And are we willing to change if we learn better ways? And are we absolutely each committed to the good of the marriage? Yes, I think so.
loading....
Fascinating topic and conversations! I’m blessed with a husband who shares my money ideas pretty much. We could have used more smarts, but bought into that whole starving artist thing.
loading....
I think its a matter of communication, but not butting in.
Finances should be an open topic of discussion, which is easier said than done.
However, you can advise on the other’s situation, but not butt in.
loading....
Very interesting post & comments! I’m 50 and got divorced for the 2nd time a few years ago–this time with kids–and this has been on my mind lately.
Although I was raised to have sound financial principles, during most of my 2 marriages I was a “financial martyr”.
I felt when I was married that I would be being “too picky” and “not a team player” if I expected my DH’s to control their spending or contribute to household expenses or savings. I somehow felt that expecting my DHs to deal responsibly with our finances wasn’t romantic or might be evidence of my own lack of committment to the marriage.
So in both marriages I tried to deal totally on my own with our (his) debts as well as all the household bills and any financial emergencies—so stupid!
During my last divorce (which was the first one I had a lawyer for), my lawyer gave me a real “talking to” about how I was letting my romantic life screw up my financial life. Also with the kids’ college and all in the future, I finally woke up about all this.
I’m determined now to be sensible about money and not to let it all go out the window when I get involved with someone.
I still struggle how to bring it up, though, and when to do this in a dating relationship. I have a BF now for 10 months and we’re getting a little serious. But we haven’t talked about money yet…I’m scared to bring it up!
loading....
Great post and comments!
Openness, trust, accountability, honesty. These are very important and I’d like to make them a priority in my next relationship.
If you enjoy your work and you are far from the edge, I can see how having a SO not contribute financially won’t be stressful. If money is tight and you are the only one responsible for everything and your partner is acting entitled and irresponsibly, that’s a recipe for disaster.
Shane, I’m a woman and my first instinct is to tell you to RUN, far, far away. She’s not keeping her end of the bargain (which is grounds for renegotiation of your deal) and you can’t talk to her honestly without her accusing you (unjustly) of being unfair or not generous enough. What exactly does she bring to the relationship?
You are being USED and that sense of entitlement is only going to get worse. How long is it going to be before her weight gain becomes an issue and she makes you the bad guy for being “shallow”? What happens when she loses her job, doesn’t lift a finger to find another and blames you for not being supportive enough? Is there any facet of her life where she’s taking responsibility for herself?
loading....
In my marriage, we have joint finances I run all of it except our individual stock investments. This pretty much means that I follow through on all our JOINT plans. I know exactly what stocks we own and hubby knows exactly how much we have in every account I manage (well, when he wants to know…that’s every few weeks).
I don’t think it matters who runs what or what system a couple has as long as it works for both involved. I personally would have been uncomfortable if my husband wanted separate finances, but so would my husband, so joint everything works for us.
If you are in a loving and trusting relationship, you can operate well as a couple when it comes to money (usually). If one person is just way cruddier with joint goals than the other, I personally don’t see a problem with letting the person with the most fiscal willpower running the savings plan…as long as both people participate in the planning and agree on mutual goals.
loading....
@ Shalom, #77 – Yes!!!
loading....
For some people it really is control – my mom has this (after years of battling the chaos of being a SAHM with an intermittently-employed husband, I don’t blame her). My partner has it to some extent, too – having money in the bank makes them feel safe, like they can control their little corners of the world. It’s like the bubble of happiness spenders get from new purchases.
That isn’t really something you can see, before you commit. What’s the difference between boho and Scrooge McDuck? Things don’t show up for serious until there’s some stress – marriage does it for some people, for us it was having a baby.
Oversaving is just as irrational as overspending, if you’re doing it for emotional reasons. It won’t land you in the poorhouse, but it can still disrupt your life.
Now, we don’t have any actual value disagreements; we both eat cheap but tip well, buy mostly used but spend real cash on ethical purchases when we buy new, etc. When we met, I owned a car and he didn’t; when that car died, the next car was his.
Still, after 8 years together, we actually went to a therapist about my wish for a $400 couch. The therapist didn’t believe that was a real issue, he kept wanting us to talk about our families. But it really was the couch – after 4 years of negotiating, as our dumpstered couch disintegrated, I lay down an ultimatum: buy the damn couch, go to therapy, or watch me walk away. He chose therapy, and we figured out some practical solutions – I gave up my dream of being a SAHM til our son went to school, and got a job. He finally started putting more money in the joint account to cover the difference from my old, pre-baby, high-commitment job.
ETA: I forgot to say! Money styles don’t have to affect relationships (though lending/supporting a person you think is irresponsible will ruin a relationship over time). But they can ruin a marriage, and they can totally wreck your life as a divorced person later – I have a bunch of friends who wouldn’t marry until the guys cleaned up their debts, and I think that’s smart – live together, fine. Get married in the religious style you prefer? No problem. Sign on the dotted line to co-own half that debt? No, no, no.
loading....
Brett: you are a total control freak. It’s okay to have these feelings of superiority (processed beverages?!) (admitted to me) (my little experiment) but don’t share them with others or you will be properly humiliated.
My father was exactly the same kind of jerk, and the rest of us just found a way to work around and ignore him. That’s how you’ll end up by trying to control a woman’s thoughts, feelings, and spending. Good luck with that.
loading....
Interesting comments on this topic. My GF and I have, I think, similar views on how things should work but very different financial situations which can make things hard. She earns twice as much as me, and has a lot of family money (we own our house outright so no rent/mortgage etc, she has great views on buying quality stuff but only what we need and after plenty of research) which is awesome and I am very, very lucky.
But I do have a hard time when she wants to pay off my debts (I don’t have any now, but I did have student loans (maybe £5k) which I paid off soon after we met) or make sure that I would be ok financially if we split up (I wouldn’t want her family money, it should stay in the family). I want to pay my way but I can never ever match up which can be hard (in case you think this is a guy playing macho…I’m also a girl so it’s not a sexist thing
On the other hand, I’d love not to work and my GF would also love me not to work so I could run our home and look after the dog etc but we’re both worried I wouldn’t feel like I was contributing enough plus we don’t want her family to think I’m taking advantage of the family money. Not sure how to proceed with that one!
Oh, and much as she is totally open and honest about all our finances, there is no way I can follow the complexities of trust funds and shares and legalities which exist in her family finances! I keep my stuff fairly separate, pay all my own expenses plus buy food etc and we have a normal joint account for ‘bills’ which I pay into each month (although often she pays all the bills and we use the joint account for more fun stuff like dinners if we’re feeling slightly skint, or house purchases, or holidays).
Odd way of managing things, but I think it works for us!
loading....
I’ve read a few of the comments above with mild amusement. It’s common for couples to bicker and attack each other’s habits. My husband nags about my numerous purchases (purses, being my vice) and I nag about his incessant need to eat at restaurants and at how many dishes he needs to order…
I also complain about how although his family told him to just hand over his paycheck to me (as is custom in their culture that men give all their money to their wives as soon as the paycheck comes in and this is a way to ensure that husbands behave themselves for there is little they can do without money) and I’ll give him an allowance. The allowance I had in mind (for the future, when he has a more steady income) is about 20% of his income. He has sort of agreed to this “future” idea, but he’s a little shocked about the percentage. But truthfully he only needs 10%, 20% just means that he can indulge in cash since he doesn’t like using plastic.
And I do think that one person needs to be in charge of finances and exert “control”. Although I don’t think I’ve been very successful at doing so, I think I have managed to put him on the same page (or at least close) to me in understanding our financial situation. We have divided up our expenses so that he pays for rent and everything that has to do with the car, and I pay for utilities (which currently are free) and food. Of course sometimes he still has to pay for food, and sometimes he asks me for gas money, but generally this is how we divided it up. What this means is that until he started actively using the joint account and I stepped back and put him in charge of it, so he could no longer ask me how much we have left (because I wouldn’t know) did he find out how much we need to use each month for food. Now he knows to cut back.
I tried stepping back and giving up control of credit card payments, etc. but he forgot completely. We agreed that I should pay the bills and just take the money from him.
loading....
DH and I work well as a team when it comes to personal finances. For the record, we didn’t always work together on with our finances, it just evolved this way over time and has proven to be beneficial for both. It also helps to have a committed and trustworthy relationship where both are equally as concerned for the other’s well-being. That said, I have main control and responsibility for bill paying, budgeting, savings, investments, etc. and DH is the main breadwinner. (Although I work periodically when there is opportunity i.e. the next 2 weeks I’ll be working on a paid project; I recently completed a 5 week paid project- these jobs are temporary and not consistent.) We both had active careers for most of our lives, but 5 years ago I “retired” (health issues, etc) and now I mainly take care of our home life. So, this meant making major lifestyle changes and more discipline with finances. The surprising thing is our net worth grew dramatically as we spent less, saved more and made improvements to our home over time without incurring debts. We downsized, cut overhead costs, got rid of CC debt, gardened and cooked healthy meals at home, reduced travel and found cheap/free ways to have fun. The recent down-turn in the global and local economies only serves to validate that we made the right decision 5 years ago to simplify our life. Our lifestyle has not seen any dramatic changes since then, although we upped our bank savings (to increase our EF to 8 months income) and had to temporarily lower the amount going to retirement investments. Even so, our financial goals remain the same: pay off the mortgage before DH retires in 5 years and keep contributing as much as we can to the 401(k) and IRA.
loading....
I see nothing wrong with having separate bank accounts even that so many people don’t like it. I think separate accounts can work just fine.
This way everyone knows how much they have at any time and never have to be ashamed or embarrassed why they want to buy something and have to explain. Sometimes it’s not comfortable trying to explain why you want certain little unnecessary thing if the other spouse doesn’t have the same view.
It can be much easier for both when each person is in charge of their own finances.
loading....
I’m sorry if i’m getting to this discussion a little late but money issues between my fiance and I are probably the key thing that makes our lives hard.
He is a student and I work full time. I remember what it is like to be a student and I don’t really expect him to have much money at this stage towards our future goals.
However I am currently saving up for a deposit on our first home and being as stingy as I know how while he is travelling. His trip is huge and has been planned before we met so I have always expected this but it is expensive and means 9 months with no income at all. He has money for this but nothing else.
I on the other hand have moved in with family to save and still find he makes controlling comments about how I can and can not spend my own money. I can’t help but be really annoyed when he does this. He often does this in front of other people which i feels gives them a completely false view of our relationship.
Now I feel this has become a sore spot for me but in many other ways he is a great guy. We seem to have similar values etc. Thing is – apart from putting money towards property because although he owns none now he wants to retire early through property investment – we don’t really agree on much financially at all.
He’s wants to have a nice weding but no real honeymoon. I want a very basic wedding and a great honeymoon – not thousands worth but a good one.
He can eat out at a fast food place occasionally which i’m not so into but if I buy salmon to cook at home he sees it as a waste.
He will spontaneously decide we should go to the movies or eat out etc but disapprove of me spending the same amount on a book.
He has such fixed ideas of money that doesn’t leave me much room to breathe sometimes and I don’t know how to get him to relax about it!
loading....