I’ve been stewing over something for the past few days, and I’m finally ready to write about it.
I’m not a fan of judging others and their actions. Like Atticus Finch, I believe you never really know a person until you stand in their shoes and walk around in them. But I’m human. Like everyone, there are times I can’t help passing judgment. And although I know that judging others isn’t productive, sometimes I’m at a loss to do anything else.
Rock bottom
I had dinner with my buddy Michael last week. Michael’s moving back to Portland after several years away, and his financial life is a mess. He’s had a rough couple of years:
- He lost his home to foreclosure.
- He lost his job.
- His wife is out of work, too.
- And, last month, Michael filed for bankruptcy.
Not all of Michael’s problems are due to the economy. He’s brought plenty of woe upon himself due to a typical consumer lifestyle. He knows that.
Over a meal of southern-style fried chicken — my treat — we talked a lot about his financial situation. We’ve chatted some in the past, but I never feel like what I say makes much of an impact. I don’t want to be too pushy, for one thing, but I also get the impression that Michael isn’t ready to hear the message. Now, however, that may be changing. He has a haunting, hunted look about him.
Michael told me about the mistakes he’s made and the lessons he’s learned. He also confessed that he borrowed money from a family member, but had never repaid the loan. “It tears me up inside,” he said. “I feel so guilty.” Once he gets everything worked out, his goal is to pay that money back as soon as possible.
Michael explained how he’s hoping to set up a budget; he wants to set money aside for things before buying them. “Plus, I want to pay myself first,” he told me. “I’ve been reading about saving. I want to open a savings account and set aside $400 per month. My wife thinks we should use the money for other stuff, but I really think we should save.”
Old habits
Because Michael is a good friend, I want to help him and his family. (Michael and his wife have two kids.) I’ve been watching for cheap rentals in the Portland area, and even found a house where he could stay for $500 a month (which is incredibly cheap). There are some drawbacks to the place, and I wouldn’t suggest that he and his family stay there long term, but it’d be an awesome temporary home be while they get back on their feet.
“Thanks for finding that place,” Michael told me as he took a bite of mashed potatoes and gravy. “But we’ve decided to rent someplace else. We found a place in Rock Creek for $1300 a month.”
“Wow,” I said. “That seems like a lot.”
“Not really,” he said. “That’s pretty good for similar places in Portland. Plus, it gives us space for our two dogs.”
I sighed inside. Sure, that may be a good price compared to similar houses, but I know there are tons of places to live in Portland for less than $1300 a month — if Michael and his wife are willing to make some sacrifices. I wanted to pursue this line of questioning — What about getting rid of the dogs? Why not look at the $500/month place I found? — but I let it go. You can only argue with your friends so much, right? We moved on to other topics.
Michael mentioned that although his wife is still looking for work, he’s managed to find a job. (He was vague about what the work entailed and how much it paid.) He even has transportation. “I’m borrowing an old beater until I have a chance to buy a new car,” he told me. Michael’s last vehicle belonged to his employer, so he came to town not only homeless and jobless, but carless as well.
“You might want to wait to buy a new car until you’re more sure of your situation,” I said. “There’s nothing wrong with driving an old beater. Heck, where you’ll be living, you could ride the light rail into work.”
“I hadn’t thought of that,” Michael said. And from the way he said it, I could tell he still wasn’t thinking of it. In his mind, he needs a car — and a new one, too.
Further to fall
Before we parted ways, Michael gave me his new cell phone number. “What happened to your old phone?” I asked.
“It was the company’s. I had to give it back,” he said.
“That makes sense,” I said. “What did you get instead? Did you go with a prepaid phone? That’s a great way to save money.”
Michael evaded the question, but when we stood up to leave, I noticed the phone hanging from his belt clip: a brand-new iPhone. Later I learned from a mutual friend that Michael didn’t just buy a new iPhone for himself, but he bought one for his wife and for his 11-year-old son as well. (And he bought his 9-year-old son an iPod Touch so he wouldn’t feel left out.)
This is the part of the story where you now have to imagine a little black squiggle hanging over my head, like in the comic strips. This is the point at which I go from being sympathetic for my friend to judging him — and not favorably.
The mote in my eye
But as I began to silently judge Michael’s choices, I thought of my recent trip to Alaska. I spent ten days on the boat with my neighbor, the “real millionaire next door“, and in those ten days I often felt like I was being judged.
- Before the trip, I bought a $120 backpack at REI. My goal is to use this for much of my travel during the coming years. It fits in an overhead compartment, and is a great way to limit what I carry. John frowned when he saw the new pack and asked, “What’s wrong with a duffel bag from Goodwill?”
- On the first day, Mac and I tore a paper towel in half, and we each used our half as a napkin for several days. Eventually my napkin became grimy and gross, so I went to tear off another half a paper towel. When John saw me, he scolded me and told me I ought to use a cloth towel instead.
- Near the end of the trip, I threw a molding orange overboard. “I wish you hadn’t done that,” John said. “I could have cut out the bad part and eaten the rest.”
- On the last day, I went to the bookstore in Sitka and bought a copy of Bruce Chatwin’s In Patagonia, which I’ve been wanting to read for a long time. (After our trip to France and Italy this year, Kris and I hope to save for a trip to Argentina and Chile in 2012 or 2013.) When John saw I’d bought a new book, he shook his head. “I’ve got a lot of perfectly good books here on board,” he said, indicating his library of old paperbacks.
Throughout the trip, I felt like I was under pressure to, well, be more frugal, to make the same choices John would make. And you know what? That pressure sucked. It felt awful. I didn’t like the feeling of being judged, especially by somebody I look up to.
To judge, or not to judge?
So, I’m torn. As much as I hate to judge others, sometimes I can’t help it — and now I’m judging Michael. He says he wants to change, he says he’s learned his lesson from his bankruptcy, but his actions say otherwise.
He has no savings, no car, no home. His wife is out of work, and he’s only just started a new job himself. Yet he’s decided to rent a $1300 house, is looking to buy a new car, and has signed up for at least $180/month in cell phones. (I’m ignoring the start-up costs of the phones.) These are just the things I know about. Michael is talking the talk, but he’s not walking the walk. (I’m reminded of a previous conversation with another friend.)
I know how tough it can be to change your behavior. I’ve been there before. I used to talk about changing, too, without making any actual change. I’m sure my friends just shook their heads at me. (In fact, I know that some of my friends used to wonder at my foolish choices — they’ve told me so.)
I hope Michael turns things around, but I can’t help but judge his actions right now. And I don’t know how to help him.
Footnote #2: Okay, folks. No need to leave any more “I can’t believe you said that about the dogs” comments. You’ve made your point. In fact, I’m now whipping up an article for Friday where we can spend all day talking about the relationship between dollars and dogs. (And cats.) So, please: Save your pet-related discussion until Friday.
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Your friend is an idiot but there’s nothing you can do about it. I’ve got friends like that too.
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@Kate 198
I understand your point and wish you luck on your journey. However there is a big difference between how JD was and how Michael is. Michael has already hurt others with his spending habits by declaring bankruptcy. We can get into the old argument about who is hurt and how much, but the fact is someone has to cover that loss even if it is spread over a whole bunch of people so they don’t individually feel the squeeze. This fact distinguishes weight loss from finances. JD is only hurting himself if he doesn’t lose weight. If he had kids who were dependent on him and his weight threatened his health and life then I would say he has a responsibility to lose weight. In that case I would also say he has a responsibility to not engage in other potentially life threatening activities.
If someone manages to be autonomous while doing stupid things I completely support their right to stupidity. However if others have to cover the cost of failure then that’s not okay.
As an aside (I am NOT trying to bring this up into conversation but simply pointing out the logic), that is why a lot of people are opposed to socialized health care. When the expenses for your bad health decisions have to be covered by society at large your bad choices become the business of everyone.
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As an aside: universal health care fixes several problems with market failure, thus improving outcomes for everybody, including insurers. People who have made bad health decisions are the ones most likely to be willing to pay what they can for insurance. Those who have made good health decisions are most likely to be the ones who end up stressing the system when they get hit by a bus without insurance. People who call it “socialized” health care and who say it hurts everyone don’t understand basic public finance. No, we shouldn’t offer free unlimited health care to everyone, but there is a role for copays and coinsurance to reduce moral hazard problems. The logic is bad, so don’t bring it up as an aside as if it were the truth.
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I judge people’s finances (privately) all the time but I’m willing to accept that people do the same to me.
My partner and I were sitting on facebook earlier and one of my old school friends had posted an image of her shoe closet (yes closet filled with shoes!), the same friend who works full time, lives with her parents and complains that she has no money. We both looked at each other and said “this is why we can afford to live in a great apartment on a single part time income”.
She might think that I lead a boring frugal life or perhaps she believes that I’m in debt or maybe even that I’m selfish for quitting my job to study while my partner works to pay the bills while he also studies.
*Shrug*
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these 2 scenarios happened for a reason. first off, judging is human. you cannot stop it. the only thing you can control is what you choose to do with these feelings.
regarding michael: experience is the best teacher. it is frustrating to watch someone heading towards disaster but he’s the one who needs to realize there is a problem. beyond giving him a copy of your book (“hey check out my new book”) coupled with “if you need me you know where to find me” you’ve helped all you can. part of the process beyond recognizing there is a problem is learning how to find help and ask for help.
regarding your neighbor: i’m sure his intentions are well-placed but frankly people like that exist to remind me how NOT to act. from your descriptions, he sounds very unpleasant and someone i personally would not want to be around. i think the most striking comment was regarding your book purchase. this was a book you wanted to read. sorry but unless he had the SAME book in his library he had no room to scold. his behavior comes off as aggressive and condescending. please don’t be that guy.
great post, JD. wonderful food for thought.
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Shara @202 –
I’m confused. At one point, you say that J.D. would only hurt himself by being overweight, but then later you use the argument socialized medicine requires that the group be responsible for an individual’s poor health choices. Your argument seems to conflict itself.
While I actually think that your greater argument about Michael’s bankruptcy and the idea that one person’s ill health and the impact of both on society are complimentary arguments, that wasn’t my point.
[I am not interested in a debate about health care. I brought up the weight issue as it's a struggle that relates in a lot of ways to money. Taking control of it takes consistent good habits and a lot of self-control.]
My point wasn’t meant to bring up generalities, it was to bring it back to the personal. It’s normal for people to judge, but it’s not really all the productive. If J.D. wants to truly help his friend, he needs to find a way to either avoid conversations about his money woes or support him through it patiently. It just comes back to the golden rule. When you’re working through a challenging personal situation, how would you want your friends to support you?
Personally, I would want the truth told to me in a loving way from somebody that I trust. It may be something I don’t want to hear, but if I know that person has my best interests at heart and tells me in a way that doesn’t make me defensive, I’m more likely to listen.
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From foreclosure to 3 iPhones – gotta love America!
“What about getting rid of the dogs?” you know JD people look at their dogs as children.
I would never pay more money for dogs to be comfortable when I’m in a crisis mold.
By the spouse and kids having new gadgets I doubt if they even notice a financial crisis.
Nothing seems expensive on credit
-Czech proverb
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Like Kristin, I think your situation and your friend’s are not entirely analagous: you’re stable and frugal and investing your money. If you choose to enjoy some of the excess now while your friend chooses to save more, that’s very different from putting yourself and your family in peril with poor spending choices.
As far as judgment, I think it’s best to stay within your own boundaries. You can say, “I wouldn’t make the choices you’re making, and I can’t continue to put resources into helping you if you’re making choices so different from mine.” etc.
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This was an awesome column – very observant and relevant. Thanks!
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@Nicole
Socialized health care in its purest form doesn’t HAVE premiums. Therefore there wouldn’t be people “willing to pay more” because no individual pays more, that’s part of the point. Nor was I saying the argument was right or wrong, merely that it exists and the logic behind it. And the logic is sound because, right or wrong, that is the argument used by many politicians as they pass laws to restrict food choices etc. Just because something isn’t true doesn’t mean people don’t believe it. And just because you contradicted it doesn’t mean you’re right either, but that’s beside the point. While what you said is interesting I don’t care enough to dig it up myself. It doesn’t advise my philosophy since my philosophy is far too libertarian to be effected either way.
@Kate
There was no contradiction. My point about socialized health care was that the argument of shared cost is used to restrict choices and attempt to make people make better choices. As things stand right now JD, not his tax paying neighbors, bears the costs of his own health decisions and therefore doesn’t burden others with the consequences of his choices. It is analogous to the difference between Michael making bad choices (according to JD) and filing bankruptcy out from his debt and JD making bad choices (according to John) but being able to pay the costs out of his own bank account. One is autonomous and I think should be able to make as many *bad* choices as he can pay for. And the other is turning the expense over for others to absorb which I think opens him to condemnation in a way JD is not.
By not paying the consequences himself I think Michael has opened HIMSELF to judgment. Just like I think a parent who pays for college can demand specific behavior and grades from their adult child. The person(s) bearing the cost earn the right to judge the behavior. Michael turned over responsibility for his debt to the ether of bankruptcy court. Morally I think that’s all of us. He converted his finances from a private issue to a public one.
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I judge all the time. Mostly silently, sometimes vocally.
Just this week my daughter and her bf rented an inexpensive, incredibly tiny studio+ apartment in a very good area where they hope to find work. They have asked me to help them move there stuff so I did what any rational person would do and told them when I thought they should leave behind, due to space and financal considerations. But they insist they take the large entertainment unit with a giant CRT television,and tons of video game equipment, and a new speakers system purchased with graduation money … and they are currently shopping for two computer desks to hold their desktop and laptop for the required two seperate work areas. When I point out that there is physically no room and rationally no reason to have all that with them right now they don’t want to hear it. Somehow, they will live amidst the electonics and find a way to pay for it all dispite the fact that neither one has a job yet, and find a way to plug it all in even though there are only 2 outlets in the room.
I’ve decided to let other family members take the actual trip with them and their stuff because I already know it’s going to be a disaster and I don’t want to subject myself to the frustrations.
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I don’t think you’re judging. I think a judgment is a verbal pronouncement and/or a change in the way you treat someone (or something). You simply have an opinion on something your friend brought up. You didn’t call him out of his fantasy, and I assume you’re not treating him differently because of his situation, so you haven’t judged him. And kudos for worrying about a friend when he himself can’t be bothered to do so.
Most people don’t appreciate criticism, no matter how well earned. And it really stinks when the people in question are close friends. So just give him good advice and hope things work out for him.
And all you people dumping on the neighbor, work hard, save up for retirement and THEN show the world how it’s done. In the meantime shut up let the guy be however he wants to be. He’s earned it, and you haven’t.
There I go, judging …
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I have yet to see how one person judging another person is helpful.
Maybe consider why you feel a need to judge.
It sounds like Michael might need compassion and prayer. Enabling will not help. It sounds like Michael is not interested in the help you are offering anyway.
Each person has their own path and is responsible for themselves. Live and let live.
A good resource for people who struggle with debt and money issues is Debtor’s Anonymous. http://www.debtorsanonymous.org/ But it’s only for people who want to change.
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I read GRS sporadically, even though it is on my homepage. It is a great website and I enjoy it thourogly when I do read it.
My three kids owe me a total of just over $7200. My life was constant stress and worry over their finances. I offered budgeting services, intermediary bank account services, to pay for counseling, bought them books, emailed them articles (some from GRS), etc. I engaged in bribery, pleading, yelling, ignoring, judging, mean-ness, sarcasm, and general bad behavior.
We have family game-nights a few times a year. My entire night would be ruined when one of my kids would mention something about buying their friend an expensive birthday gift. Telling me about driving to another state for dinner with their friends and buying $8 shots was sure to invoke a response.
Finally, I said no. NO! I told them the bank was closed and I would be loaning no more money. No deals, no bargains, no pleading, no negotiations, just no money. I said if I “CHOSE” to I would give them money, picking up the tab for lunch for example, but no more loans.
It was difficult to make that step, but I am much happier for it. I have a distance from the situation which reduces the stress and anxiety. Now, if they mention their poor spending habits, my DW and I look at each other and roll our eyes.
I still offer budgeting services and advice to them on a regular basis. Perhaps two or three times a year. Other than that, I’ll wait for them to ask.
One of the posters used a mountain analogy, with Michael at the bottom, JD in the middle and some guy on the top of the mountain in a lioncloth! I am somewhere between Michael and JD. While I do well with my finances, I am prone to the occasional spending spree. My wife and I have a mortgage and one car payment, I have one student loan. We have a LARGE emergency fund and pay off credit cards in full each month.
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Shara– You’re wrong. There’s no definition of “socialized health care in its purest form.” “Socialized medicine” is a jargon term used by people who don’t understand the role for government in market failure. It doesn’t have a standardized “pure” definition, at least not in economics or public policy circles.
You’ve hit one of my pet peeves of people who are ignorant about a topic trying to push a political agenda “as an aside.” I strongly recommend reading the textbook “Public Finance and Public Policy” by Jonathan Gruber as a primer. It’s at a college undergraduate level and should be readable.
You are right that just because something isn’t true doesn’t mean people don’t believe it, but by stating it as a throwaway aside as if it is so true it doesn’t require any explanation or qualification doesn’t help the matter– it just spreads untruths.
Now back on topic to complaining about people throwing away their pets.
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I’ve only read the first 100 posts, so hope I’m not beating any dead horses here….
First off, each member of a society has a moral imperative to call others on “bad” behavior. Yes, our individual value systems will determine what is bad. Howevere, in my book, silence often is received as tacit approval. When I see someone belittling a child in public, I will call them on that behavior — polietly and with compassion.
That said, what struck me the most about this article is that Michael’s bad decisions affect not only himself, but his whole family. And even if he changed completely today, his past bad decisions are going to continue to affect his whole family for several years.
As a previous poster stated, Michael’s right to be an idiot and irresponsible stops the moment those decisions begin to affect others.
In this particular situation, I don’t believe JD went far enough. Ethically, since JD cares about Michael and his family, I think JD needed to bite the bullet and state some hard truths to his friend, even at the risk of alienating Michael. Hard truths can be relayed with compassion. But Michael needs someone in his face on this — and ultimately, Michael will be more receptive to hard truths from someone he views as a good friend than say the guy who refuses his car loan (or rental contract).
The comparison to an addict is very close. Funny how we never want to judge others about money. However, if Michael were gambling away hugh amounts of money every week, I’d bet JD would be far more likely to offer to get him to counseling, etc. and risk the loss of the friendship.
Just for the record, I’m a recovering alcoholic myself and do not buy into the predominent mentality that it is “beyond my control”. It wasn’t until my family stepped up and said either enter treatment or never call us again that I was finally able to recognize my own drinking as definitly a problem that needed to change. Without this “in your face” intervention, I probably would have continued to abuse my body and my finances for several more years before hitting bottom. Because of my family, hopefully I never will hit bottom.
Michael needs to stop the spending and live within his means. If JD feels love for him and his family, he needs to call Michael on his behaviors. More than subtle suggestions are necessary here.
Just my own little judgment and two cents.
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JD, the real issue is, Michael doesn’t want help – from you or anyone. I’m sure that’s a difficult spot for you to be in, because you’ve got a self-developed and widely-acknowledged streak of expertise in the very matter that Michael is obviously struggling in – but the fact remains, no one can help another person unless that person *wants* to be helped. Resign yourself to the fact that Michael isn’t ready for or doesn’t want your (or most likely anyone’s) advice, and move on.
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Re the mention of buying “In Patagonia,” I hope you do get a chance to go to Argentina/Chile in a few years. Patagonia is one of the most incredible places I’ve ever been, and while it was a little bit expensive, it was a fantastic experience!
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People’s crappy financial decisions always have a way of impacting their friends and family. For example, you likely felt obligated to treat your friend to dinner, whereas you would not feel that way if he was in better financial shape. Does this mean you have a right to judge? Not *really*, but it is natural to resent someone when you sacrifice for the sake of responsibility and you are then burdened by someone else’s wastefulness.
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I used to have more sympathy for people going though hard times, but no more.
I have always been frugal in my spending ,handling debt (STAY AWAY!)and have looked clearly at options before I invest. I am 38 and have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in boring index funds, bought my home in Florida in 2004 and am not near underwater, have my kids college prepaid, emergency fund fully funded and my marriage, and family life are awsome to go with this- go figure!
Am I bragging? Mabey, or mabey I am just telling it like it is, just like all those d-bags, WHO MESSED UP FINANCIALLY, whom I have seen and heard over the past 20 years. One uppers who bought or leased better, newer cars and bigger houses than I had. People who bragged about their internet stock,that hadn’t made a dime yet, that doubled in a week. People who said mortgage debt is OK, especially if you do a 2nd on your home too buy another house to flip! People who like Credit cards for the miles. People who wouldn’t lower themselves to use a coupon, buy something used, buy a boring index fund or hold off on buying every cool electronic gadget just to ask me how I can live my life is without it. I say “I don’t know, I just do not need to tell 439 phony facebook friends, what kind of doughnut I just bought just then on my Iphone”.
All of these people made and lost alot of money over the years, but most of them are not making money now, they are making excuses. It is not my fault, it is the bank’s, credit card company’s, car dealer’s, realtor’s, stock broker’s, wall street’s, subprime lender’s, George Bush’s, rich people’s, my boss’s, my customer’s, the economy’s, China’s, health insurance company’s, or my spouse’s (did miss any?). It is any or all of these reasons that made them fail. Not them being one-uping, know it all d-bags for the last 20 years.
THE ONLY WAY TO GROW FROM THESE THINGS -FORCLOSURE, SHORT SELLING, DEFAULTING, BANKRUPT, REPO, NO MONEY TO FALL BACK ON, ETC. IS TO SAY ” YES I MESSED UP, I AM SCARED, BUT I AM FROM NOW ON GOING TO STAY WITHIN MY MEANS, LOOK AT RISK IN MY INVESTMENTS, WORK HARD, SAVE, AND FORM REAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH POSITIVE PEOPLE IN MY LIFE AND WILL BE OK IN THE LONG RUN….Oh and not be a one upping D-BAg!
Alot won’t change and will go back to finding the next best thing to delve into. If it makes a dime you will hear about it. Just hope they do not involve you in the deal. Those people – No sympathy!
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The difference here is that Michael asked for advice and JD did not.
The Millionaire Next Door was offering unsolicited advice and nobody wants that, really. Michael came asking for it and still ignored it. No wonder JD felt uncomfortable…he felt manipulated and foolish for even wasting his time with Michael.
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Ya know…I think sometimes, people have been brought up a certain way or they are used to living a certain way, and they just have no idea how to differentiate between wants and needs. could you maybe post some kind of sample budget (with percentages, since everyone’s salary is different) so we would have some idea? my husband and i have been trying to put together a budget for some time now. he makes 31,000 annually, but the job provides a home and all utilities. we feel we should be doing better than we are, but we can’t even make a budget without being in the negative. want to use our budget as an example??? I’d love a re-do but do not know how to do it.
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Judging? Or observing a pending hurricane in slow motion and accurately describing where and how the storm is going to hit?
I think JD is doing the latter. The sad truth is that Michael is immature, lazy, and foolish. Here’s the breakdown.
1. IMMATURE– because he can’t manage delayed gratification. Last summer, I wanted an IPhone, too. So did my pregnant wife. But we had just bought a bigger house and had yet to sell our condo, and were living as “low on the hog” as we could go. In early November, we sold the condo.
I bought my wife an IPhone because she was getting less mobile and had trouble getting upstairs to use the computer. Not knowing what type of baby delivery expenses we would have, I kept my older phone, which I bought refurbished from AT&T in 2007 for a while longer. After we paid off the hospital bills, I bought an IPhone- in March 2010.
This type of thinking is anathema to Michael, but is a core building block of creating and keeping wealth, or at least a modest emergency fund.
2. LAZY– When JD found Michael a $500 rental, he should have been thrilled. When he found out it did not fit his family’s requirements, an even moderately industrious person would either ask JD how they found the $500 place and ask for help in learning to search for other low-cost places, or ask JD directly to keep searching for him. Michael just went out and found whatever fit his requirements, none of which were financial. Surely in all of PDX there is SOME rental in the city that can accommodate his family and dogs that is less than $1300/month. But he didn’t want to do the legwork to find that place.
3. FOOLISH- at $1300 month rent and $180 in cell phones, he has established a base burn rate of money at $17,760 per year without touching electricity, water, the digital cable package that Michael will probably order, gasoline/transit passes and oh yeah, FOOD. The median family income (usually a two-income household with married adults) in PDX is about $50k according to Wikipedia. Did the guy who just moved to town with no job pick up that type of salary on his own? I doubt it. So let’s say he’s making a little over half that at $30k.
Coming out of bankruptcy, with $12000 and change left BEFORE taxes to take care of his family this year, with only shelter and phone service covered otherwise?
The real potential problem is three to six months down the road. If his monthly cash flow is already underwater as he starts the new job, things are only going to get worse later on.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh but this type of behavior has cascading consequences for family, and Michael’s immediate and extended family are probably already suffering from it. I’ve seen my father-in-law do too many similar things to waste money.
He’s twice my age, has worked as a lawyer for 30 years, and has no retirement savings, but he did take a transatlantic luxury cruise a few years back and is vacatoining in Texas this week.
Half of my financial life is worrying about what happens if he gets seriously ill before he is eligible for Medicare. I fear that they will need to sell their house to pay bills, and they will come to us for money to live on. We are savers but the only way for us to do this is to basically raid our own retirement funds.
So is JD judging Michael? No. There are real and visceral consequences lurking for Michael’s wife, sons, and any other family members who will be asked to forego their dreams (or perhaps already have) to save his wasteful behind at some point.
So Michael, if you’re reading, it’s time to man up.
1. Keep your dogs, but go find shelter for somewhere under $800/month. Better yet, find that shelter somewhere along a bus or a train route that gets you to your job easily, and save money on both transport and housing.
2. The IPhones go back. ASAP. Go hit an AT&T store and tell them you thought you could afford them, but can’t, and ask how you can return them and replace them with the most basic but functional cellphones they offer. Then drop the data plans and get a monthly family plan that is far less expensive.
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Holy mackerel! This guy is hopeless. And you need a friend like that moving to your city about as much as you need…another dog! Watch out. He’ll be at your doorstep asking to sponge off you one of these days.
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A friend of mine was always in shaky financial shape, partly because of life circumstances and partly because of poor life decisions. She wasn’t a bad or irresponsible person, just someone who never could achieve long-term stability.
I never judged her because it took me a long time to realize how her own decisions had contributed to some of her difficulties. For instance, I didn’t recognize her poor choice of a husband because they were already engaged when I met them. Years later when the marriage broke up, she had every opportunity to sell the marital home, and she should have. Instead she tried to keep it, and eventually lost it to foreclosure.
Not judging was undoubtedly easier for me because I ended up moving away before her marriage really hit the rocks. Nothing I or anyone else could say would have mattered anyway. This couple got themselves into a huge financial and emotional mess that no one else could get them out of. We lost touch over a year ago, probably for good.
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i post on frugal village and living like no one else. i also went “scorched earth” intense when i did debt repayment.
i get super frustrated when people post that they can’t feed their kids or pay their bills, but won’t cut off karate lessons or cable. after one suggestion, maybe two, i leave them alone and won’t respond to their posts anymore.
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I have two comments to make:
1. As a pet owner I can say that getting rid of the dogs is not an option because pets are a part of your family. Asking to get rid of dogs is like saying getting rid of a child or sibling. I know this sounds crazy but many pet owners will agree.
2. Why do you not like RIch Dad Poor Dad? I would really like to hear your side because I really liked the book.
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When you mentioned you threw a moldy orange overboard, I thought your friend was going to admonish you for not only tossing out something that still had edible value, but also for littering. At the risk of sounding judgemental, why in the world would someone (and an Oregonian at that) go to Alaska and LITTER?
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I can’t get past tearing a paper towel in half for personal use. Was it one of those brands that gives you the option of tearing off half for the sake of efficiency? If so, were you actually using a quarter of the paper towel? That doesn’t seem frugal. It seems cheap.
Still….I REALLY can’t get past using that same half-of-paper-towel (that actually could have been a quarter of the paper towel) until it becomes gross and grimy.
Maybe you can share your neighbor’s identity with us so that we never eat at his home should any of us have the misfortune of meeting him, befriending him, and being invited to dinner.
The scenario you described would have made me jump off the boat and swim back to shore.
It’s a beautiful post, by the way. Both of your friends appear to live at extremes while you come across as well-balanced. My opinion is that THEY have a lot to learn from YOU – except for the bit about the dogs…
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an orange will biodegrade, not litter. geez!
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I think your solution suggests itself – just introduce John and Michael. The one will get to judge someone who actually needs it, and the other will get what is probably a totally new perspective to him.
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Very interesting article. It connects well with the financial blind spots article that followed it. I think this is symptomatic of a wider problem than making bad financial choices–our capacity to lie to ourselves. Your friend really needs to take an honest look at his life , not just in terms of his day-to-day spending, but overall. There is some serious denial here. As a friend, although this kind of thing can be painful to watch, sometimes all you can do is gently nudge someone in the right direction and be there to help pick them up when they hit bottom.
As a total side-note, the bits about the half paper towel you used for a few days and your neighbour wanting to eat part of a moldy orange are borderline vomit inducing. You’re a reasonable guy, you should not feel the least bit guilty about this (except maybe for repeatedly using a slimy, dirty paper towel). Truly sickening.
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Three iPhones?!? Seriously?
Hell, I’m nowhere near being in trouble financially but I use a very simple prepaid phone (on NET10) and it costs me $20 a month. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done and the service is actually quite good.
Michael is really not ready to make any kind of sacrifice to get back on his feet…
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Since someone mentioned “The Sermon on the Mount” Matthew 5-7 I thought I’d mention something I was recently shown. In Matthew 6:19-34 it talks about simplifying our life in order to put spiritual things first. Why, in this 30 minute sermon did Jesus spend so much time on $$?! Do you think he knew it’d be hard for imperfect humans?!
I can’t wait ’til Friday. I don’t see pets as a necessity for people in financial trouble!
I’m having a hard time with my parents and judging them about money… Mostly my mom, but my dad doesn’t do much to help control the finances.
I liked an idea I read recently (on this web page?) that gave the idea of making a person buy back their items to find out what’s most important to them.
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this situation is tough for both sides as im sure he isnt feeling to good about himself for the situation he is in. as for you, whatever advice you give him is still only advice, he can take it or leave it. it really is too bad though that you werent more forceful with him over the home and cell phones. your friend hasnt learned anything, continues to make the same stupid money mistakes and will never really fix his situation until he gets his spending in control!
Preferred Financial Services
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I really enjoyed reading your article. It was refreshingly honest and I could relate. I am your friend… I’m in his shoes, with he exception of the spending on unnecessary things (iPhones?) No thanks not me. But I am struggling, and worse yet, I’ve been unemployed since May 2010, and going through a divorce that should be final this summer.
What do I do? I don’t know, but I am finally paying off my last credit card debt ($10,000.00) and CLOSING it. Not just putting it on ice or cutting it up. I will resort to strictly living from what I get from the divorce settlement and my future writing job (my goal), using a debit card only. No more credit cards, no borrowing (although I never did that), no shopping sprees, no unnecessary spending. I need a job more and financial stability, not fancy phones, or dinners. For a while it might be a bit hard, then I’ll get bored. But Ill survive. The one thing I wont give up is my fitness. But that I found a solution to as well, I have located through Meetup FREE exercise groups. It’s fantastic! We meet up at the beach (what better place!) appx 2-3 times a week, workout for 1 hr. then share nutritional shakes & I get to meet new people as well. Life’s hard, how much harder do you want to make it on yourself? I don’t. So, I accept my circumstances and deal with them accordingly, and in this case sensibly and responsibly as well.
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