Reader Story: Rich Dad, Stingy Dad

I’m very happy for you and your good fotune. I’m not a big advocate of counseling, but I would hope you can see that you may be helped by seeing a counselor. If you feel uncomfortable paying for it (and I gather you might), maybe your insurance could cover most of it. There are several issues in your life that you may be able to work through. Best wishes.

Anna-

Frugality can become like anorexia. Can you enjoy food without thinking about weight? similarly, can a person spend money without obsessing about it?

I was a champ of a saver up to age 40 but found that after a while, I was a little too attached. So, while continuing to automatically save for retirement and kids’ college, I loosened up and had fun spending on family vacations, courses I always wanted to take, and new hobbies. Now , for the first time, I have a credit card balance (for one month). This doesn’t feel good to me, so now it is time to find a middle way!

I am LUCKY to have the freedom and means to explore this relationship to money without undue stress. really lucky. One thing that allows that freedom is basically living below means

Anna, I’m glad you’re not taking many of the “get over it/how dare you comments” to heart.

One of the hardest things for us parents to remember is that what we say is not necessarily what our kids hear – especially since kids, being kids, tend to think of themselves as the center of the universe. If I complain about having to spend a ton of money on kids’ clothes, I may be thinking “I wish I had more money to buy my kids nice things,” but what they are probably hearing is “You guys are costing the family money and making things hard on the parents.”

I think a lot of folks are also confusing teaching kids frugality with teaching them that spending money is bad and will never make you happy. That latter is a very ugly and anxiety-producing message that does nothing to teach a prudent attitude about money.

My parents taught similar lessons on frugality. I too resented them as a child, but now I see that these lessons are a real gift. These are a gift that not everyone gets them, even within a family. Two siblings have always spent money they minute they get it while two save. Now that we are older and nearing retirement, guess who is prepared for the end of our earning years? Working in an industry cyclically impacted by recessions, I have seen peers struggle with the impact of spending too much in flush times only to regret it in the lean. Having frugal skills helps you weather economic storms. It gives you a cushion and it gives you power. Frugality helps you know the difference between a need and a want.

Cokes and ice-cream are wants. Why even buy a soft drink or ice cream when you know that these are unhealthy and are impulse purchases anyway? I understand wanting a treat, especially when you are a child. You feel you are being denied something that everyone else has (not true, but it always seems that way to a child). This is immature and self-indulgent perspective. Your parents were the adults and they had a responsibility to show you how to make good choices. It sounds like they did and even told you the reasons why. I would argue that the discipline you acquire through these experiences is a good thing. Sodas, ice creams and even new clothing are ephemeral. It’s just stuff and the happiness they bring is fleeting. You are worth getting a treat, but realize you now have the power to make the decision to actually act on your impulses. If you know something doesn’t fit your goals, or it isn’t healthy, or whatever reason, isn’t really a denial at all. Rather than whining, make a paradigm shift (to use a very dated phrase) and see it for the mature and self-loving act that it really is.

An interesting exercise is to add up what a coffee at a coffee shop would cost you if you purchased one a day for a year. Then determine if this is an expenditure you are comfortable with. If not, maybe you can compromise and buy a coffee out just once or twice a week instead. Or form a study group at your place by inviting a fellow student(s)over for coffee. Be creative and sharing with your frugality.

As for clothing, you can find very nice clothes at thrift stores and garage sales. As an adult I now have the ability to buy new, but why, unless maybe it’s from Target or TJ Maxx? I grew up with double hand-me-downs as child #3, so I do get the angst. But I now see that clothing is dated so quickly. Incidentally I do get compliments on my clothing and I wear brand names. I have found three Coach purses purchased at garage sales ($5 each) and have them cleaned and restored as needed. They are classic and never seem to go out of style – one reason Coach bags have the reputation that they do. I do have high standards, keeping up with the latest styles and brands, but buy thrifty. I can also sew, but find it doesn’t save me enough to be worth my time unless it’s a special occasion (LBD) dress. I enjoy the design process and knowing my dress is custom and one no one else will be wearing. This site has great links on what clothing to buy and why.

As a stay-home parent, these skills continute to be tools for my job of creating creating a comfortable home and healthy meals for my family. I make every penny count so I can stay home as long as possible. It’s my creative and industrious endeavor. Having freedom from financial worries is a joy too few achieve. I hope you can learn to see your parent’s lessons as a gift too, one you can keep or alter as needed and when needed. Your frugality and upbringing is causing you pain, so please get therapy, especially if your school offers it. My heart goes out to you. Be good to yourself.

I’m not sure what Treasury Notes are, but I remember my mom debating whether to buy this $100K note or to keep it in savings. A 1/2 of a percentage point difference in an investment consumed her thinking.

I remember the note paying less than 1%, my mom driving down to the big bank in Washington DC to purchase it, and who knows what to cash it. With all said and done, after taxes, worry, and gas, I don’t think it was worth the trouble.

When traveling she also brought her cooler and oven to make sandwiches. While I admired her frugality, she now has Alzheimer’s and never enjoyed her hard earned money.

She’s taken care of for life but oh how I wish she had a bit more fun.

Anna,
Thanks for sharing your story. I can relate to it. Please ignore the “bragging” and “get over it” comments – they aren’t seeing things through your eyes.

My parents had similar attitudes toward money, but never amassed any money themselves. Any dime spet on me made me feel guilty.

I knew from a relatively young age that I wanted money and I wanted it badly. I’m in my mid 40′s now, no debt, money in the bank, and a very nice income, but I rarely spend money on myself. (BTW, I worked my backside off to get here so I guess I am bragging)

I am very conscious of the money messages I send my kids. They have an allowance plus the opportunity to earn more if they are willing to work for it. They can spend it on whatever they want. I’ve found myself biting my tongue on more than one occassion…

Go slowly and let yourself spend some money on something that makes you happy. If you find yourelf much further downt the road and feeling the same way, please seek someoneon to talk to. I wish I had 20 years ago – money is not a means unto itself. Life is short, enjoy it. I wish you the best.

I read articles like this and try to think how to apply them to my own life. I try to see what this article can teach me about rearing my daughter.

I think it’s really important for us parents to remember that the manner of instruction is as important as the content.

I do think Anna’s dad had some really good lessons to pass along – and as at least one commenter pointed out, frugality lessons are far more helpful than hog-wild-spending lessons are. Kids are natural narcissists, and are inclined to make everything be about them. Yuo take that natural narcissism and throw comments at it like “we can’t go on vacation because we have to pay for David’s college tuition” or “we’re never going to retire, these kids’ clothes cost so much” – well, you are creating a painful connection in the child’s mind.

It’s critical that we teach frugality, but we need to show our thought processes behind what we do. We need to explain what we’re saving for. It’s not that we love money more than we love the child (which is the unspoken lesson some tighwad parents convey), it’s that we love the child so much that we want to give them a quality education, and that may mean that we spend less on clothing. Or whatever.

I also think it means being honest about our general financial situation. My mom would ridicule my desire for the “right” clothes (she’d say things like, do you really think people will like you better if you wear something like that?) and say I was being wasteful. She also told me that I would “nickel and dime myself to death.” The truth was, money was really, really tight, but I didn’t know that. My parents were trying to teach me to watch expenses – to be careful and frugal – but what I heard was that I was hopelessly greedy and pathetic.

Yes, you have to grow up and make your own decisions, and yes, most of our parents loved us and did their best. And yes, probably we’ll all say something damaging to our kids as some point or another. But stories like this are reminders of some ways that we can damage kids, and by being aware, maybe we can avoid at least some of it.

Very touching story. A big part of learning financial responsibility includes when to spend your money as much when to save it.

Hoarding money is different than saving. Saving implies that there is purpose behind what you are doing. It sounds like what your father was doing was hoarding money with no goal in sight.

As a second thought, much like my own father, he may have been saving all that money so when he is gone, you will still be taken care of. To him, your safety and security with your finances is more important to him than spending money while you were together.

Whether that is the case, or whether it is right or wrong, it is something to consider.

Thanks for the post.

Thanks for sharing your story, Anna. While many of us (including myself) have struggled with a lack of discipline that has led us into financial bondage (aka debt), it seems like there is an equally vicious bondage on the other side (aka hoarding). It highlights for me the very purpose of money. Why am I saving? Why do I want to be rich? If it is ultimately for selfish purposes, or out of fear, then I’ll never enjoy it. But if I save so that I can invest in relationships, or a good cause, etc, then it can bring joy that money in and of itself never can. I was reminded of this the other day by my 12 year old daughter, who got some birthday money but didn’t want to save any of it, because Dad “never her let her spend anything from her saving account”. Ouch! Good luck to you.

Thanks for the story, Anna. I think it *is* valuable to get a perspective from the other side even though it brings out the judgypants.

Dear Anna,

Thanks for sharing your story! I have also had a challenge balancing spending for pleasure (love coffee out, it’s a whole different experience!) with saving… my money life is in order, no debt except half the cost of my recent grad school and 9 years left on a mortgage on my modest home…

I earn over $65K yet often choose not to buy things that give me great pleasure — I used to often think I shouldn’t buy coffee out, even though the amount of pleasure I got from spending $2 at the coffee shop is proportionately a very high bang for the buck! I’ve overcome that one and now I very peacefully and happily go out to coffee.

My new project is choosing to spend on body products, my personal guilty pleasure… I love lotions, bubble bath, and conditioner from the co-op and an upscale salon nearby, yet often viewed them as indulgences I couldn’t or shouldn’t buy. Using them makes me feel like I’m living in luxury, and refusing to buy them for myself makes me feel deprived. I’m plenty frugal in other areas, and I also seem to be able to indulge myself, in balance, in other areas too, but somehow this was a bigger challenge for me. Now I’m buying something like that regularly… just finished grad school, and I’d been resisting spending $25 for a small bottle of lotion that I had wanted for months, so I bought it. Total luxury! A person doesn’t need a ton of these, but now when I’m running out of a product, I buy something I really want.

Don’t know if you want a project, but if there are things that for you make the difference between feeling like life is full of delight and fun surprises, and feeling deprived… make a short list and start doing/buying those things regularly. It was kind of hard for me at first and still sometimes is, but it also feels really good. It’s like I’m proving something to myself, in a good way.

Anyhow, don’t know what those things are for you but it’s never to late to buy your inner child ice cream cones and sodas, and maybe you literally want to take your little self out for ice cream every week or more this summer…

Thanks again for your story, life is good!

Enjoyed the post & comments. Some guiding principles that help me find my way every day in hopes of striking the delicate balance:

You can always make more money, but you can never make more time.

Neither love nor good health can be bought.

Experiences can last a lifetime and become priceless with time, while possessions fade away (Where is that beloved childhood bicycle? Long gone, but oh the memories & the freedom!)

largebill @120: what’s “wasteful”? It’s a matter of perspective, and that’s what Anna’s post is really about.

The comments about ‘you can get X at home’ or ‘but that’s a fleeting pleasure’ seem to miss the point. If all you want is your morning jolt of caffeine, indeed, it makes sense to brew at home rather than to go Starbucks. But if what you really want is to be out of the house and to have some peace and quiet to sip your coffee without toddlers underfoot, the dog barking and your spouse asking you where the car keys went (again), then perhaps “I have coffee at home” is not the answer.

Teaching kids to be frugal ought to have nothing to do with teaching kids to feel shame for asking their parents to spend money, or teaching them that spending money is a measure of (a lack of) smarts and moral worth.

Anna, thanks so much for sharing your story. It certainly reminded me how very fortunate we were. My circumstances were very different growing up, we didn’t have a lot, my dad was supporting his ‘first’ family, but for all we lived close to the bone, I remember with great happiness the times we would be treated out to ‘the milkshake shop’ as a family and share milkshakes between us to keep it affordable. There wasn’t much money, but there was heaps of love, and that meant we could make mistakes and know we were still precious and worthwhile.

This is a story from one of your fellow readers. Please be nice. After nearly a decade of blogging, I have a thick skin, but it can be scary to put your story out in public for the first time. Remember that this guest author isn’t a professional writer, and is just learning about money like you are.

It makes me happy each time I read these words.

The wonderful thing about the internet is that it permits us to hear what ordinary people think. But lots of people don’t speak up because of the snarkiness of a few and its intimidating effect. We all benefit from expressions of support for warmth and civility like this one.

Rob

Hi Anna!

A lot of people seem to be really jealous of the amounts you mentioned, don’t let that throw you off the point you were trying to make.

My parents really didn’t have a lot of money while I was growing up, and I experienced a lot of the same things that you did. It’s not about how much money you or your dad had, it was the life lessons that you learned.

I remember a downtown festival we went to and I had a certain number of tickets to spend and that was it. I carefully planned and spent all my tickets, but when I realized the ferris wheel was the same number of tickets as the crappy fun house I remember breaking down and crying (I was probably 6 or 7). Fortunately, my dad was understanding and I was allowed to ride the ferris wheel, even though I know we probably didn’t have enough money (My parents used the envelope system, and we lived off of one salary from a retail store).

That experience hasn’t left me. I strongly hesitate to spend any money, because there could be a “better opportunity”. It can make my life miserable if I let it. One thing that helped me was finding a soul mate who has opposite tendencies to me. We balance each other out (he no longer buys 100s of CDs/DVDs, and I no longer hoard money like a miser). It has really helped me to free up a bit and not be so down on spending money all the time. I still budget and plan (we just bought a house and are planning $4,700 worth of minor repairs/furniture/appliances). But I don’t feel quite so bad if the doors we bought were $10 cheaper at Lowe’s rather than Home Depot. Sometimes you have to just buy something you need, when you need it, and gradually learn to not feel guilty about it.

I think there’s a lot being overlooked here.

You weren’t allowed to buy soda or ice cream because you had it at home.

You had soda and ice cream at home? What luxury! We had water and freezies. And not because my parents were stingy, but because that’s all we could afford.

You seem to begrudge your parents for not spending money, saying they had “millions” and thus should have been more willing to indulge your childhood whims. But what you seem to not understand is that the way the got those millions was by being frugal and conservative. And just because someone has millions doesn’t mean it’s time to open the floodgates and spend like crazy. Have you ever read “The Millionaire Next Door?” A million bucks ain’t what it used to be. In these days where defined-benefit pensions are harder to find than a politician with integrity, it takes millions to be able to retire with any sense of dignity.

You depict your parents as ultra-rich misers, hoarding excessive piles of cash. But when I read your story, I saw two people who were wisely and diligently saving for a comfortable retirement, while their neighbors blew their paychecks on SUV’s, swimming pools, vending machine soda and store-bought ice-cream cones.

I agree with the others. I think your issues are YOUR issues, not your parents’.

I hope you find peace.

I don’t know if you’ll read this, but personally I worry about cash flow more so than the amount. That’s how you know if you’re in trouble, or if you’re leaving enough of a buffer to recover from a set back or a splurge. I still have no Data plan on my phone because another $400 a year in data plan doesn’t appeal to me, but I’m buying NFL Sunday Ticket to watch the Bears with my wife .

I also feel the buyers remorse, and most times I think at times I should. That gut feeling that you don’t need something, like me thinking about a new car now when my corolla runs perfectly fine even if there is a bit of extra road noise, is healthy. It keeps me being sane, which keeps me able to do what I really want later.

Just like my talents, the money you inherited is a gift not everyone has. But it is a gift you were given. The key is to figure out what is important enough to spend on. I generally will splurge on my kids. Or if after 3 months or more my wife and I still want something we can afford, we’ll do it. You can always be generous and share too, which may help as well.

Also, remember you can’t control everything. A better deal always exists, but you don’t have perfect information. So as long as you did your due diligence you’re good. We recently wasted $100, but life goes on, at least we can afford that mistake without blinking and move on. Life is just too short to worry, and it doesn’t add anything to your life, as a smart Jew pointed out once. Learn from it, and be thankful you can move on.

Wow, there is a lot of bitterness in some of these comments.

Thank you for your story, Anna. It’s a nice view of a different perspective.

“Why even buy a soft drink or ice cream when you know that these are unhealthy and are impulse purchases anyway?”

Because it’s fun and tastes good to most people and in moderation is not going to make you unhealthy.

I really relate to Anna, since my parents were super frugal. Unlike Anna, I have no idea how much money they have in the bank. I’m guessing that it’s a lot, since they have never spent much of anything. Their only splurge over the years has been international travel, and even then they stay in the cheapest hostel or hotel in town and only eat from street vendors. I, however, want to be different. My mom’s frugality especially is so extreme and so ingrained at this point that she can’t even enjoy nice things even if they are given to her. She’s also convinced herself that her cheapness is philosophical and anti-consumerist rather than just being grounded in an inability to spend money without guilt.

And no, Anna, you don’t need professional help. But I’m sure you already knew that!

My parents and grandparents had very similar views and actions regarding money, and I was raised similarly to you. However, unlike you, I am grateful for it. Why not try to change your paradigm to be grateful? You sound very stuck and victim-like in your posting.

My grandmother was a tailor and my grandfather was a plumber. My mother was a public school teacher and my father was a house painter and was often unemployed. (He was a bit of a loser, and my parents divorced. My dad did not pay child support.) That’s the extent of my extended family. I’m the first in my family born in the U.S. No one in my family came from money. Yet given their modest incomes, I have never been poor and no one in my family has ever missed a bill or gone without basic needs. This is because everyone is frugal, respects money, understands needs vs wants, and doesn’t buy into excessive American capitalism and commercialism. This has been such a gift to me. I’ve seen that it’s possible to earn very little money in America and still be absolutely fine financially. I’ve seen that it’s possible to spend less than you make no matter how little you make. I’ve seen my grandmother economize with endless things – only ever buying $2 or cheaper shoes from Payless, growing much of her own foods or picking it at u-pick farms, making and repairing clothing, etc. But she liked doing this, and it makes sense. Why assume that paying more is better, especially when for many of us, it’s not what leads to happiness. Because she was frugal in so many areas, my grandmother could also spend money on what she valued – paying for things like school for her grandchildren, taking me on my only out-of-state vacation as a child, and her own basic expenses such as shelter and other needs.

In our culture, it’s so rare to have models that teach us how to live on whatever we earn, even if it’s meager. This is a gift. Most people are struggling to live within their means, and no matter how much more they earn, they will still struggle. This is a subtle form of slavery. I’m so grateful for the extremely frugal modeling I had from my mom and grandparents. No matter how little I’ve earned, I’ve always been able to save. This has given me freedom. I earn much less than my friends, yet I travel more than any of them. I know what’s important to me — I stayed in $5-10 hotels while in India, but I knew it was important to me to have more time in the country (3 months) rather than spending $300 on a hotel and only having a week or two there. I have three advanced degrees, and am fortunate that my frugal ways helped me get through school. I’m also glad that I’ve been working since I was 11 years old, which taught me good habits that I applied toward school and later jobs. I’m grateful that no matter how low my pay, I’ve always had a savings account while people who earn many times what I earn did not. I currently work for the private sector for the first time in my life and am earning a lot of money. I’m grateful that this has translated to saving lots of money, not scaling up my lifestyle. This equals FREEDOM. I can do just about anything I want. (So can you.) If I get fired or laid off tomorrow, I don’t have to worry because I’m frugal. If I hate my job and get inspired to travel through Costa Rica for 3 months, I could do it.

I also suggest that you start giving away money. It’s liberating. And it’s also important from someone like you who comes from so much privilege. I used to give in small amounts – $20, $50, $100. Now I force myself to give in big amounts – $500, $1000, $3000 at a time and to several organizations. It often feels painful in the moment, but I’m always happy afterward and I never miss the money. It’s also powerful to use my money – the fruits of being frugal and wise – to shape the world as I want it to be. So, try giving. Make yourself do it at first. Make it a habit. Get yourself out of your head and your self-pity and help humans or animals who need it a lot more than you do.

A final reflection on gratitude: I’m grateful multiple times a day – whenever I interact with consumerism culture – that I was raised to view finances somewhat like your parents view finances. It feels liberating not to have to fight the urge to spend every time I enter a store or see advertising. It feels liberating not to spend mindlessly to the point of debt. It feels liberating to know what a “want” is and to feel control over acting on it. It feels liberating to not give into sales tactics and to know that I’m almost always getting a deal. It feels liberating to know that my spending habits also help the environment and the world.

@ Rachel211

I’m sure there are some people who give to charity just because, as you say, “it can be looked at as heroic.” I don’t think that’s a good reason to give to charity. I think people should give because they genuinely want there to be fewer people in the world suffering for lack of basic necessities.

I also agree with you that people who do give a lot of money to charity shouldn’t spend their time looking down on people who buy sunglasses. Maybe they should try to gently suggest to those people to reconsider the next sunglass purchase.

I used to buy a lot of nice things “for myself,” so I feel like I understand the position of many people who do that–I don’t look down on them. I can tell you that for me, personally, my life has improved since I started redirecting money away from those things and towards something more important. So I try to let people know this, in the hope that maybe they will find the same is true of themselves.

I guess I think that there probably are too many retail stores and ice cream shops. I certainly think their owners deserve to exist, but I guess I think that in an ideal world, they would be making a living in some other way.

It seems like we agree about more things than we disagree about, though. If every single person gave a good amount to charity, that would probably be enough to feed every hungry person in the world. So I’m not trying to make people like you feel bad–I think it’s more important to try to get people who spend way too much money and give nothing to charity to reconsider.

The thing is I’m just not really sure how to do that. So for now, I’m just trying to do the best I can with my own resources.

Anna: What I don’t understand is, if you were getting a “generous” allowance since the age of 5, why on earth didn’t you just buy ice cream and other splurges yourself?

I applaud your dad for sticking with his convictions and telling you “no” – and wish more parents today did the same. And maybe, on vacation when he mentioned that the vacation spending was more irregular than he would like, you could have simply told him, “Thanks, dad. I’m really having a good time.”

I know some people cannot understand what you are saying and therefore they may be unreasonably harsh. I understand. I have always had that miserably guilty feeling about spending. When my husband and I got married, that translated into – I couldn’t tell him no when it came to spending because it made him feel bad and then I was miserable because we spent money that we could have saved for something we probably didn’t need anyway like shoes when one of us had holes in the bottom etc. or when we purchased something that was more of a convenience item than a necessity. It took years for me to come to terms with the fact that I don’t like to spend. I’m no longer afraid, I just don’t like it. He balances my dislike of spending by buying what is necessary even though I am cringing. I have learned to let him handle things like grocery shopping (have you seen the prices of food now days?)and he has learned to think about his other purchases before spending to be sure he is not wasteful. We are on a very tight budget right now due to medical expenses that will take the next several years to repay, but we are using our own likes and dislikes to make it easier to live within our budget. Lesson – I had to learn to have faith and trust that we will be provided for instead of letting fear ruin my life. A budget is a tool that people tend to use only when they do not have enough money. The fact is a budget is a tool that puts YOU in control of YOUR money. You could decide when budgeting that you WILL make X number of dollars available for spending and then practicing using that amount wisely to prove to yourself that you won’t spend wastefully and that you will contintue to save. You can do it! You really can!

I agree with Courtney, it’s the unhealthy emotional message. I thought the worst part of Anna’s story was her father complaining about “spending money like it grows on trees” when he was the one with the wallet! Parents should do their utmost not to pass off spending guilt–they are adults, responsible for financial choices, and their children should not have to carry that weight.

I felt guilty for years after my mom suggested that my dad hadn’t taken a(potentially more lucrative) job in another state because I, then a 14-year-old, hadn’t wanted to move. I’ve since realized that my parents had many other considerations besides the wants of one of their four kids, and in any case they were in complete control of the situation; I wasn’t.

All this to say that parents have control in life and need to own it instead of guilt-tripping their kids.