I have had to learn this in dealing with my own children. I reacted somewhat like your dad in the past. My children are ages 10 and 6 now, and although I have taken them out for ice cream since they were young, there have definitely been times when I quickly brushed off desires they might have had. Hopefully, I can help undo some of the damage. Thanks for your story. It has encouraged me to show my kids that their overall happiness is what’s most important to me.

And by the way, he definitely should have given in to buying you a treat once in a while. We all need to splurge a little along the way to our goals.

I dunno, in your case maybe it’s to rent someone’s ice cream truck for a day and give away the contents at your own expense

On another note, it’s true that kids will remember the most surprising things and really take them to heart. I remember being crushed when I was about 8. I was sick and my cat was sleeping with me, and I told my aunt that my cat always knew when I was sick and comforted me. My aunt completely ruined this when she said, “cats don’t know that, she’s probably just next to you because it’s warm.” There are certain things you can’t forget, and sometimes it’s the weird stuff. But I completely understand how Anna’s dad’s comment could ruin her whole vacation. The most random (and nonchalant) things can be the most damaging…

This is actually the same philosophy I’ve got now that I have a child. We don’t have tons of money leaft over each month, but I grew up with a dad who spent every dime on himself, never on his family, and a mom (they were divorced) who pretty much did the same. At a young age I started working to save up so I could leave, so for the most part, I didn’t really enjoy my childhood.

NOw that I ahve a child, I want him to enjoy things. I don’t want to be so worried about money I can’t get him a snack when we go somewhere and he says he’s hungry, or I can’t (or won’t) get him a toy for 41 at a yard sale. It makes me happy to soil him in that way. And while I don’t always say yes, on the small things like that, I do, because its enjoyable for him, and for me to do that.

Chipmunk, your post was interesting but it troubled me. I honestly believe you should see a counselor. It’s one thing to clip coupons or shop sales; it is quite another thing to put yourself in danger by showering in the dark. What if you tripped on something and hit your head on the sink or tub? You admit that you think about money all the time. This isn’t normal. Watch the TV show “Hoarders” about the people who save used pizza boxes and closets full of Tupperware; now picture yourself in their shoes, substituting money for pizza boxes and Tupperware. I am serious. Please get help.

I understand how hard it must be to live in that but i see that your parents upbringing made a great impact on you and this kind of upbringing do works on most. People are trained to save money rather spend a lot.

However, I’m following the concept of the law of attraction. In law of attraction, it basically state that you are the creator or your dreams or wishes and you need to think of your dream and think that you have achieve that dream now.

In law of attraction, you must feel good about money. Before I’m exactly on thinking like what you’re thinking about money now, that spending is a crime or it gives me guilt. I feel good about money, for me money is hard to find as i was trained that it does not just grow on trees. But when i learned of the law of attraction, I see that you must feel good about money and welcome it into your life. You donlt ned to spend and spend without saving what you just need to do is think that money is goood and that you need money to live hapilly and to do all you want to do. If you’ve heard about The Science of Getting Rich then read on it and you’ll see that earning money is easy. Donlt get me wrong, I know that being thrifty is important but I don’t see the sense of earning money yet limitting yourself to be happy because you have to limit money into your life.

beign ashamed of using money will not attract mor money at all. so you need to feel good about having money so you can attract more riches in to your life

To Chiomunk – “I have a bad tooth that I could get fixed quickly and very cheaply, but I’d rather just resign myself to chewing on one side of my mouth instead.” That’s bad. I can tell you from experience. I needed minor work done on my teeth and couldn’t afford it and didn’t have insurance. By the time I finally took a loan out to fix my teeth, it was 10,000. I had to have a lot of work done. I would seriously reconsider skipping the dentist.

Find the thing that makes you happy and don’t be afraid to indulge in it once in a while. You’ll have a few less dollars but probably more happiness. Then look for bargains on the things that matter less but still need to get the thrill of the bargain.

Growing up, we didn’t have a lot of “stuff” but boy do we have memories. Vacations were usually spent at relatives. 40 years later my siblings and I still talk about our vacation to West Virgina and the Blue Ridge Mountains. Going to McDonald’s or any fast food was a once or twice a year event.

Anna, your parent’s did the best they could with the tools they had. You need to forgive them and forgive yourself. If the money is such a burden to you, give it away to something or someone you are passionate about. Live life.

There are plenty of treats that are good for kids, the most precious of which is a parents’ time. Something doesn’t have to rot your teeth to be a treat. Treats can even align with a parent’s values (gasp) which is why my kid has so many books, among other things.

Money is a tool and it is very sad when money is equated with love. Money is not love, and it is a bad lesson to send to a kid that it is. Money is just money. It buys goods and services. I think it is really sad when people judge their worth to others by how much others spend on them.

Same thing with food, which provides nourishment. Food is not love, but a lot of people are taught to believe it is. That leads to emotional eating.

This story isn’t about the father not thinking she was worth a soda or an ice cream cone. This story is about a messed up relationship with money and viewing spending as shameful rather than as a (limited quantity) tool to get goods and services.

Personally I think my son is too valuable to feed junk food to (though if that’s what he wants to spend his own money on when he’s old enough to get an allowance, so be it; he gets to make his own decisions with his own money).

Even though it wasn’t from my parents, I too share your extreme feelings towards spending. For years, I have felt guilt for wanting to buy anything for myself that wasn’t an incredible deal or a necessity.

I am slowly starting to get past some of that, but I am nowhere near feeling “normal” about money. One thing that has certainly helped though, was to give myself an adult allowance. Sure, I just saved it up, and even started investing it… but, every now and then, I buy myself a little present, and I not only don’t feel guilt about it, I am proud that I earned the money, and can freely spend it.

I wish you luck in dealing with those demons… I know exactly how you feel.

It’s the gesture, not the product, that is important. Money is an emotional thing, and sometimes spending it on someone else IS an example of love. I work very hard and spend a lot of time to earn what little money I make right now, so being generous by spending it on my loved ones occasionally is definitely one way (just one way, of course) to tell them I love them.

Wondering what I was saving all that money for forced me to increase the amount I spend on entertainment and fun in my budget. While I still feel a tinge of guilt when I get that ice cream cone, between my sweet tooth and my determination to not be *quite* like my parents helps me get over it. I also find comfort knowing that I’ll never find myself in over my head in credit card debt not because of how much I’ve saved, but because of the habits my parents ingrained in me.

Some things that helped me: start off listing some of the things you want to buy in the future (big things! like fun trips or a big TV). Think about them every now and then while doing more and more research on quality and pricing. I found that it helps knowing you got the best deal possible and the delayed spending fends off the guilt of potential impulse buys. In the end, there really is no “normal spender” despite what advertisers tell you. Good luck and have fun learning to spend!

And while I agree that no parents are perfect, I disagree that all of us have something to forgive our parents for. Barring doing something illegal or immoral, a parent IMHO should have free reign to parent their way. They are the parents and they have authority. I don’t think children have the right to seek forgiveness for grudges they carry because they disagree with the way they were raised. “Because I said so” used to be a perfectly reasonable and unarguable response from a parent to a child, but in our current day and age too many kids feel they have the right to question authority figures and complain freely, without reprocussions.

This entire story reminds me of a girl in my high school, who on her 16th birthday got a beautiful brand new Jeep Wrangler gifted to her by her parents. She cried the entire day, because she had wanted a cute convertable red BMW.

It is difficult to feel empathy when there are far worse circumstances that folks deal with all the time.

Acknowledging where one’s parents were misguided – even criticizing them for it – is not necessarily the same thing as resentment. It’s the start to understanding where you got ineffective thinking, and then changing it. It’s also the beginning of forgiveness, if that is the chosen path. I think every single adult has something they need to forgive their parents for, no matter how loved they were, because no parent is perfect.

And once on that journey, getting that “monkey off your back” is not an event, it’s a process. And one that is easier for some than others. Depending upon the depth of one’s emotional wounds and their personality, it takes some people more time and more effort to find their adult selves. Some are not even brave enough to start the journey.

Anna appears to be in the middle of that process. But there are many here who are bashing her for either having to do it at all (“ungrateful”), or for daring to write before she had integrated all her childhood demons (“victim mentality”).

But by writing her story, Anna has shown she does have courage to acknowledge where she came from and start her journey, and for that, she should receive support. And if I’m wrong, and she’s not someone who has the courage to start on that journey, berating her is no way to encourage her growth. When someone tells you about their pain, the right thing to do is to be compassionate and constructive, not tell them they have no right to that pain or worse yet, belittle it.

Spending-wise – one-time when we were on vacation we stopped for a meal and I wanted a steak. My parents and I negotiated – they’d pay the price of a hamburger and I would pay the difference – smart parents, one happy kid.

Wish my brother and I had realized that while my parents used credit cards, they paid the balance off each month…took me until ten years ago to realize that one.

Good luck Anna – you’re worth spending money on yourself.

and @ 166 chacha1 who thinks some of us missed the point:

We didn’t miss the point, but many of us disagree with the conclusion. Obviously, it isn’t about the ice cream and soda, it’s the emotional burden that was created by her dad’s stinginess. We get it.

The problem with the critics (myself included) is that YES, most of us have some emotional scars from otherwise normal childhoods. But I’d argue that most of us also took control at adulthood to remove the metaphorical monkey from our backs and appreciate the lesson, regardless of the journey.

This story reeks of “woe is me”… the typical victim mentality. Let’s see: Dad teaches frugality (albeit in a very guilt-driven way) while saving his butt off, which at Anna’s adulthood results in her having a boatload of money and a frugal mentality.

My folks, who sucked with money (and still do), used passive-agreesive communication to try to coerse me into doing things their way as a child. As I matured, I learned to distinguish the good lessons from the bad, and now I fully appreciate all the good things they did for me and sacrafices they made. But more importantly, I remember the negative moments so that I do not repeat them – without carrying any sense of resentment to my parents.

Why waste money on a nice hotel, when you shouldn’t be spending your time in it ANYWAYS if you’re on vacation?
If it had a bed, it’s good to go!!

As a parent, I do strive to save every penny I can. But I want my kids to feel like their lives are full of riches. We went out for ice cream yesterday in (secret) honor of this post.

Thanks again!

This is the exactly the kind of upbringing I had. As a child, I was frequently made to feel guilty about the most basic things, like wanting an occasional can of soda. Even when my mom would take me shopping for a Christmas dress that she insisted I needed, she would never let me pick anything that wasn’t “on sale.” This normally resulted in me getting clothes I hated.

In fact, my entire life, I attended school in mostly garage sale-bought clothing, which baffled my other friends considering the size and splendor of our house.

Like you said, while it’s nice to have learned the lessons of frugality, which I too am good at now, I still feel incredibly guilty buying anything! Even things that are two measly dollars, I will agonize over the purchase and whether or not I am getting the best deal. And clothes that aren’t on sale? I still cannot bring myself to buy them.

I guess you could say I resent it a little bit. It’s an anxiety over money that was taught to me, and I would appreciate not having that anxiety in my life when it’s not necessary.

This is why its so important to teach children a healthy mix of saving + spending.

The sad thing is so many parents want their children to be so much like them and when they aren’t the parents end up disappointed. Children aren’t clones. They have their own personalities, interests, desires, they’re their own individuals.

You see this with religious parents, a lot of kids end up rebelling against their faith. Those who let their children make up their minds, usually those end up better adjusted than the kids who were forced to go to church growing up.

Its great that a few people here say that their frugal childhood didn’t make them resentful, but not everyone is like that. Maybe your parents knew how to balance their frugality with treats now and then. Growing up my parents said no A LOT, that I just gave up asking them.

They loosened up over the years and have offered money to help me out and then but still you remember stuff from your childhood because when you’re a child you’re so vulnerable, impressions and experiences stick longer, as an adult, you can shrug things off and choose your path but that’s not the case when you’re a child.

For once someone is being honest, and yet all people want to do is judge them for their honesty. So what if she hadn’t written this story and sent it to GRS, does that mean her thoughts wouldn’t exist? I don’t think so. Ah but you can’t judge her thoughts can you unless she writes them down and that’s where the difference is that she actually spoke.

I thought this was America and not Burma.

The most fitting analogy I can think of is over-saving is to over-spending what anorexia is to morbid obesity.

But asking “how much” is looking at it wrong. Life is not about how much you save or how much you spend. Life is about what you do. Money is not an end. It is a means. It is a tool.

Don’t squander your money. Don’t throw it away thoughtlessly, don’t spend it accidentally over many years on things you wouldn’t have bought if you’d stepped back and thought about it. Don’t let desire and debt rule your life to the point that you can’t do anything.

Don’t hoard your money. Don’t save it over many years without thought or purpose, all the while avoiding experiences that really WOULD have been worth it to you if you’d stepped back and thought about it. Disaster may strike; you may die at 35 and leave all of it to someone else, and then what will you have to show for your life? Don’t let money rule your life to the point that you can’t do anything.

Use your money. Step back and ask yourself what you want in life. Freedom? Save for early retirement. Travel? Save for it and then spend on it. Life near family? Education? Great achievement? Security for your children?

Save ruthlessly for your goals. And spend ruthlessly on your goals.

You only get one shot at life.

I spent 2 years being extremely devoted to debt. It’s gone. I’m still frugal, but I draw the line when it makes a negative impact on my friends and family. So I hide it by having 1 drink at dinner instead of 2. I bring my lunch but if someone asks me to join them out, you bet!

Balance is key.

Anna — Hopefully your (new?) awareness of when you hear your father’s voice in your head can help you move beyond it.

20 years ago, my therapist taught me to rewire some of my automatic reactions by identifying and questioning assumptions I had learned from my family and community: “Who told you that?”, “Does that make sense?” and “Why do you think they told you that?” I had to remember and identify where I learned things to be able to decide whether to keep them, or realize that I didn’t have to hold that particular belief.

Money was a very complicated issue in my family of origin. DH and I talk about it a lot, to make sure we’re living by what we believe, not just what we were taught. You mentioned that you had a few discussions with your siblings about your parents’ money habits — that sounds like a great idea to compare perceptions and coping strategies.

Good luck!