This is a guest post from Jeff Yeager, author of the newly-published The Cheapskate Next Door. Yeager calls himself the Ultimate Cheapskate — and his wife agrees. Yeager is also a contributor at Wise Bread and on the Early Retirement forums.
“Sure, we could afford to spend more, but why would we? It wouldn’t make us any happier.” — Those are the words I’ve spent the last two-and-a-half years traveling the country to hear. It’s a simple but rare statement, given that nearly half of all Americans say that they literally live paycheck-to-paycheck and have little if any savings.
How can some people live not only within their means, but substantially below their means — even when their incomes are often less than the national average? And here’s the biggest question of all: How can some of those same people insist that they’re happier — joyous, really — because of their thrift and frugality?
I traveled thousands of miles — nearly 3,000 of them by bicycle! — and surveyed more than 300 of my beloved “Miser Advisers” to find the answers. In my new book, The Cheapskate Next Door, I share what I discovered about people and families — many of them just like you — who not only know how to stretch their money, but who are more content and happier because of it. The book also includes hundreds of their practical, money saving tips — ideas that anyone can use every day.
Some of what I found may not surprise you. These frugal folks:
- Despise debt and have found creative ways to eliminate it from their lives.
- Differentiate between “needs” and “wants,” and between “affordability” and “borrow-ability”.
- And, yes, most own and still wear at least one article of clothing dating back to the Carter administration (or earlier).
But other findings surprised even me, The Ultimate Cheapskate.
For example, only about 10% of the thrifty people I talked to have a written household budget (“we live our budget — it’s second nature — we don’t waste time writing about it,” one cheapskate said). While they have savings in the bank, less than 15% have a formal “emergency fund” (“an emergency fund is for people who don’t have their financial house in order otherwise,” another cheapskate said). And more than nine out of ten say that they think, worry, and stress-out about money less — not more — than their non-cheapskate peers.
The Cheapskates Next Door are 100+ times more likely to have a dog or cat adopted from a shelter than one purchased from a pet store, are far more likely to own a crock-pot (or several) than an IPod or flat-screen TV, and they divorce at less than half the national average.
These aren’t your miserable, Scrooge-like cheapskates. These are folks who know what’s important in life, and they skip the rest. Here’s a glimpse inside the mind of the Cheapskates Next Door:
- Cheapskates say, “The Joneses can kiss our assets.” Cheapskates are highly self-confident and proud of their frugal lifestyles, caring very little about what others think of them and even less about things like buying designer brand names and keeping up appearances with the Joneses.
- Cheapskates are immune from buyer’s remorse. Most shoppers eventually regret nearly 80% of the discretionary items they buy; but cheapskates are “premeditated shoppers” and, because of it, are largely immune from buyer’s remorse. Nearly 90% of the cheapskates surveyed say they “never” or “rarely” regret a purchase. And they don’t shop for “recreation” or “therapy,” which is one reason they prefer shopping at thrift stores (with a more certain selection of merchandise) than wasting time shopping at yard sales.
- Cheapskates appreciate appreciation (and depreciation, too). Other than when buying a house, most people usually don’t think about whether something will increase or decrease in value after they buy it. Cheapskates are tuned into appreciation/depreciation, often preferring to buy antique furniture (like the Amish do) that will retain/increase in value, and buying everything from cars to computers to clothing used, rather than new, so that the first owner pays for most of the depreciation.
- Cheapskates know that the best Things in life aren’t things. Social science has shown that Stuff tends to disappoint us over time, but experiences — how we spend our time — is what adds true value and meaning to life. Cheapskates value their time, and the things they can do with it, more than money, and the things they can buy with it.
- Cheapskates answer to a higher authority. For most of the cheapskates polled, it’s truly not about the money. Nine out of ten cheapskates say that their decision to live a more frugal life isn’t about trying to amass a big savings account; rather it’s primarily grounded in some higher ideals, such as religious beliefs or environmentalism. That’s why, of the cheapskates polled, they donate nearly twice as much to charity as the average American.
While most of the cheapskates I surveyed are lifelong devotees — having practiced frugality since long before the recent recession made it more fashionable — I kept asking myself while I was writing the book whether or not thrift is truly here to stay, particularly for the nouveau cheap. Will conspicuous consumption spring back to life faster than you can say “bailout” or “liar loan?”
I’m not at all confident about the answer. But the very last question in my survey was a hypothetical: Someone drops a million bucks on you tomorrow, how would it change your life? More than 9 out of 10 cheapskates, in so many words, said that it wouldn’t change their lifestyles in the slightest.
“Honestly,” one couple told me, “it would just serve to reinforce what we have already learned — that we have Enough right where we are, and we realize that is a gift most people don’t ever choose to receive.”
J.D.’s note: Though I haven’t had a chance to read The Cheapskate Next Door, I liked Yeager’s earlier book, The Ultimate Cheapskate’s Road Map to True Riches [my review].
Also: By a happy coincidence, Mr. Jeff Yeager, the Ultimate Cheapskate, passed through the Portland area on his cross-country bicycle book tour yesterday. He and I spent a couple of hours cycling through the Oregon countryside while chatting about frugality and other related subjects. Here’s a poor-quality photo of us crossing the Willamette River by ferry:

Dig my gigantic helmet and my awesome reflective vest. We sure look like a couple of dorks!
This article is about Books, Frugality Wednesday, 28th July 2010 (by J.D. Roth)


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Neat!
Awesome picture.
I guess by most of those definitions and characteristics I’m a cheapskate. Except, if I got a certain amount of money my lifestyle would change drastically. And I’m not sure that my spending is because of environmentalism or spirituality etc.
So according to cheapskates, having an “emergency fund” is predicated from poor financial planning and management? I wonder what Ramsey and Orman would think about that. So what do these cheapskates do with their money if they are not spending it or throwing it into a savings account?
AC:
If they’re like me, it is in longer term investments, like stocks, bonds, or back when interest rates were good, laddered CDs. Possibly some pre-pay the mortgage.
In a true emergency it could be sold, potentially at a loss.
I certainly identify with this article. I’m with Nicole as I invest in stocks and if it were a true emergency I would sell at a loss. While I don’t like the term cheapskate I do operate in a manner with very similar traits. Sure, my wife and I spend a little more at Whole Foods and I do have some nice things but I simply don’t care what other people think. If I did I would be broke. I have a couple of friends that I try and mentor helping them establish a more prudent philosophy for personal finance but it is a slow road. In my life there is no need for budgets and no need for coupons as long as your living and car expenses are reasonable. Always pay yourself first and respect/appreciate what you have.
You look like Dark Helmet from the movie “Space Balls” in that brain bucket. But hey, you’re out there and doin’ it. Party On!
AC said [having an “emergency fund” is predicated from poor financial planning and management? I wonder what Ramsey and Orman would think]
They would probably say that if you truly have your financial house in order, you already have plenty of available cash.
I have been reading this site for quite a while and rarely comment; most everything posted here is good information and most frugal people already know and practice it.
Orman and Ramsey are there for those of us not already living well below our means. The only way they push people to succeed is to have them live below their means while offloading their debt (and then to stay there). The rest of us have already done that.
There is an inherent danger in getting 100% of people debt free: Financial institutions need to make their money somewhere, and if they can’t prey on the weak, then they will turn to the strong (us) and start devouring. While I wish everybody the best, I also know that when the human factor is injected into the equation, there will always be a losing side somewhere, and (sad but true) they are the group that will suffer while eking out a bare subsistence.
Kind of ironic, isn’t it? The people that can least afford to pay usurious rates are the ones that do.
I have the book and am loving it, although not all the way through it. I think the point, AC was that cheapskates dont have an “official” emergency fund. They have savings that they can access that simply happened because they lived below their means. While I like some of ramsey, much of it is directed at overspenders or people who spend most of what they make each month-these people would not fall into that demographic.
That really surprises me that the majority of what defines as “cheapskates” do not have a budget. I guess I’m not a cheapskate then! Of course I my wife and I do not fit the bill in other areas either - I have a flat screen TV! (paid for with cash at a deep discount on black Friday). But we also have a crock pot. So I guess I’m half a cheapskate.
@AC: I think it’s not so much a matter of not having savings as the cheapskates object to terming some of their money as an “emergency fund”. I suspect that many of the things most of us consider “unforsee emergencies” often have some warning signs, but we either miss them or briefly consider them and hope that we can put off responding to them until a later date (when we have more time and/or money to devote to the solution).
To one of these cheapskates, ignoring the warnings and then needing to respond to a problem as an ‘emergency” rather than taking care of it when you see the first sign would probably be considered poor planning. For example: They would insist on having their car’s various components thoroughly checked regularly by a trusted mechanic, and then deal with all of his recommendations immediately, rather than putting it off until later.
Of course that assumes that you have the knowledge (or the assistance of a trusted repair person with the knowledge) to spot these warning signs. And you have to have the resources (money/time) to deal with them immediately, rather than put off things off until later and hope you can get to it before the part breaks.
Really interesting topic.
Just one complaint: Can we please stop using “flat-screen TV” as a scapegoat for frivilous spending? It’s 2010. All TV’s are “flat-screen” TV’s. Just because someone owns a flat-screen HD TV doesn’t mean they waste money. It just means they’ve bought a TV in the last decade.
Seeing that helmet made me think of “The Great Gazoo”. Although, I would rather look like a nerd than end up like Gary Busey. Wear those helmets please people. Anyway, great post.
Unfortunately, the word “Cheapskate” can have such a negative connotation in some areas. When I was younger I referred to a neighbor as a cheapskate because of his frugal ways. What I did not realize is that he spent wisely and only spent money on what he really needed and what brought him the most value and pleasure. I have to give ol’ Jim credit, he has weathered this economic storm better than most.
I laughed at this article because I have 3 crock pots..all purchased at tag sales.
Also, I agree with #10 Kevin’s comment. Our TV crapped out last year and they don’t make CRT’s anymore. So yeah, I begrudgingly bought a flatscreen TV but only because our old one died an un-fixable death. We have a 1 TV rule in our house, so it’s not like we could just move another one from the spare bedroom.
We fit the profile of Jeff’s subjects but we don’t have a written budget either. We don’t need one because we’ve always lived below our means.
We do, however, track our spending. There’s a difference.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that these people are adopting pets from shelters instead of buying from pet stores! Good for them!
I’m glad you ran this review — as I mentioned when you were soliciting blog topics, I’d really love to hear more exploring that first point — because I think that high self confidence is SO extremely critical to being successfully frugal.
I wish this was something that was easier to teach or be learned - as I really think that insecurity leads to so much conspicuous consumption. But then I guess that is what we need more of in this economy!
I think I’m getting hung up on the use of the word “cheapskate” in Yaeger’s world. There’s a huge difference in my mind between the people I’d classify as frugal (which is what this article seems to refer to) vs. the people I’d classify as “cheapskates”. The cheapskates *I* know are people who destroy many of their personal relationships because they see no problems with exploiting their friends’ assets if it means the cheapskate will save money–to the point where their friends resent being taken advantage of and eventually pull away. The cheapskates *I* know have ended up in the hospital bc they think it would be wasteful to throw away a leftover fish dinner that sat in a hot car all afternoon. And the cheapskates *I* know tend to value money above and beyond ANYTHING else in their lives–there is no higher belief such as environmentalism or spiritualism providing context for their actions, especially if there’s some way they’ll get something for free.
I’ve known many frugal people whose company I enjoy immensely, and they seem to embody all of the traits that Yaeger is referring to. I’ve also known a few true cheapskates, and to a person, they are all miserable, unpleasant people to spend any length of time around.
I’m with Nancy L. I don’t like the term “cheapskate” in this connotation. Cheapskate implies someone who will mooch off their friends and family so they can say they got an item for free. Frugal - which is how I’d describe the people in the article - implies that you are careful about your money and where you spend it.
I guess “cheapskate” will get more attention than “frugal,” though.
I’m another frugal person with no budget or emergency fund. I used a budget in my early years, to keep track of saving, not spending! And just like the debt snowball effect, there is a savings snowball also. The more you save, the more you can take advantage of more savings - stock up on sale items, pay cash instead of financing, put more down on a house purchase, start a business, etc.
If you keep living frugally (because you honestly enjoy it!), the more opportunities keep coming to save, eventually maybe even financial freedom, whatever that means to you.
Unless you make big bucks, this process can take some time, so it helps to enjoy the journey as well as the goal-setting. My husband and I are in our 40’s and we can really see now the power of saving, even slowly. We have many options available to us (helping kids with college, early retirement, mortgage paid off, etc.) that our age-mates who still live paycheck to paycheck just don’t have.
@kevin… not everyone has all flat-screen tvs. A true cheapskate like my husband has a collection of old tvs (and VCRs) in their basement. Every time a friend or family member purchases their new, flat-screen tv to replace an older, working tv, MrP takes it. Whenever one of our old tvs dies, we bring one up from the basement collection. So while our loved ones spend on their new tvs, the P family watches tv for free. (And yes, we also watch over-the-air tv.)
Cheapskate is a really negative word. People can live within their means, save enough for retirement, and still buy something as horrific as a “flat screen tv”.
And yes, its 2010. A lot of good quality flat 30″ screen tvs can be bought for less money than a mid grade CRT 30″ tvs in the 80s and 90s adjusted for inflation.
I really hated the first book, it had many crude parts that didn’t sit well with me; on top of I personally hate the “nickel and dime your way to riches by brewing your own detergent in a crockpot” type PF advice. Won’t be picking up the second book.
I have friends who are cheapskates, they pirate movies and songs off the internet, they don’t tip properly, quibble over bill splitting differences at dinners with friends, trade off large sums of time and convenience in group outings/trips for tiny sums of money…and they drive me absolutely mad.
I also associate the word “cheapskate” as a negative term and view that person as a more or less kind of “scrooge”, not a frugal person to be emulated.
I would love for JD to explore #14’s idea about the correlation between self condfidence and the ability to be frugal in spite of what everyone else is doing.
There is something very dispiriting about articles extolling cheapskatery……It is not a lifestyle I wish to pursue as it seems as if it would take up all my spare time (I have very little as it is). I dont own a crockpot because I can COOK! Cheaply! And I cannot say I find it helpful to keep reading this hoary advice. Also cannot shop clothing from thrifts-it might save $$ but it sure wastes A LOT of already precious time. There is a reason that stuff is so cheap. We have a cheapskate in the family and she mooches off everyone and gives nothing in return, as in #15-16. We avoid her. It is a very unattractive trait. However, that said, I the real annoyance for me) is the smugness and self satisfaction of the folks depicted in these articles.
As for an emergency fund-I was burgled in January-Im glad I had the cash to cover it. It was completely unforeseen-this stuff happens to everyone. Its just stupid to say you dont need one “because your financial house is in order”. You could get cancer despite all your efforts at leading a healthy lifestyle.
At the very most, I might use a few tips from these folks, but that’s all as the lifestyle is not appealing. I no longer shop for “fun”, which takes care of a lot of the wastage right there. Budgeting helps me spend mindfully and attain my goals. Money is just a means to an end so whats the point of dying with a million bucks in the bank you could have used to enjoy your life more? These people seem to have made money more of and end than a means.
“A true cheapskate like my husband has a collection of old tvs (and VCRs) in their basement”
Your husband sounds like a hoarder to me, filling his basement with discarded junk. I’m sure your loved ones are very happy “spending on their new tvs” if it means they don’t have to keep a stockpile of old discarded tvs in their basements.
While there is nothing wrong with the article itself it appeared last week on the Dollar Stretcher website. Many of us who read pf blogs read more than one — I usually look forward to original content here, dissappointed to see a copy.
I truly enjoyed this post, and I ‘get’ what the cheapskates are saying. If you are already living well below your means and it is a core value to who you are, what is the point of fretting about emergency funds and such? Apparently they are saving as much as possible already and their core values reinforce frugality. It is just who they are, so why screw things up with spreadsheets and such. They have money in the bank, so no need to divide it up into an emergency fund, a this fund, a that fund. They only spend on what is absolutely necessary, so what is the point of an emergency fund?
Good for the cheapskates!
Yeah, I might have to read this just to see why someone would need more than one crockpot!
Most of the crockpot food I have eaten is simply gross. I run screaming when I see those things.
Cheapskates say, “The Joneses can kiss our assets.”
Awesome quote. Go cheapskates Go.
JD, you have lost a lot of weight man. Keep it up.
I got to read this book, but it will be a while, since our library might not have it this soon.
I read Jeff’s article in AARP magazine. I loved it there and I loved this post, so I think I’m going to have to get the book. (I know I’m in my 30’s, but my mom gets AARP, and it is actually full of great tips on frugality as well as how not to get ripped off. I’d recommend it for anyone.)
Lisa @ 22
We have 2 crockpots for different reasons. one is that one is very big for larger dishes/meats and the other for smaller amounts. It is also helpful when you want to make 2 different dishes like a meat and a side-type.
And to maharani @ 20, well, having a crockpot IS cooking and not necessarily about being cheap. It’s just longer cooking and helps when both people work and frees up time to go to a museum on the weekend or pursue hobbies instead of worrying about what to eat.
I love Jeff Yagers last book and am so excited he’s come out with another!
Growing up we lived next door to a self-proclaimed ‘cheapskate’. His kids (my friends growing up) are also cheapskates while my siblings and I have had a life long struggle with defining what is ‘enough’.
My neighbor came over as I was mowing my lawn with a gas-powered hand lawnmower and wanted to know why I hadn’t purchased a riding lawnmower. He asked me if I was cheap. I said no, I was waiting for the end of the season sales. I saw this book (online, I believe) and picked it up at the library just this past Monday. I’m on chapter one. I thought it was cool that he mentioned J.D. I thought, hey, I “know” that guy. I felt like I was part of a community. I will say that Yeager mentions that Cheapskates do not go to yard sales because it makes them buy stuff they don’t need. I venture to yard sales once in awhile but after reading that comment I thought, my God, he is right. I like to think of myself as frugal (that’s what I told my neighbor too…I was frugal) not cheap. Someone mentioned reading AARP, and they were only 30. I am 45 and I read AARP too (from my Mom). It really has a lot of interesting financial topcis. I would reccommend it.
Dienne - crockpots also help tenderize cheaper cuts of meat.
Maharani, I understand what you mean about crockpots. I think you just haven’t had anything good! My DH makes a lovely applesauce in it. You can also tenderize meat so you can make pulled pork sandwiches. Delish!
Can’t say better than Kevin in #10. Not all who has flatscreens are spendthrifts or those with older TV are cheapskates…or frugal.
Onething for sure is one’s junk is another treasury. so one’s frugal habit may seem vile by another. Are we spending the money and time wisely enough satisfying your core values and necessity?…is all that matters in the end.
Don’t get hung up on the title.
Sounds like The Tightwad Gazette for the teens (2010+). No one wants to be a tightwad either, but the books were hits. I used to own a few copies, and stole the ideas that worked for me.
When this book shows up at the library, I’ll probably take a look, and borrow what makes sense for us.
DH thinks I’m a cheapskate, but I think I’m just frugal. POV, I think!
Food from a crockpot is nasty. Reminds me of going to Church pot lucks when I was a little kid, where there were 85 kinds of potato salad and no chicken fingers.
Anyway, I agree with several of the above comments about cheapskate being a negative word and the fact that owning a flat screen TV doesnt make you some kind of terrible sinner who cares too much about material and vanity. (I actually dont own one, but I’m planning on buying one in the not too distant future.) I especially agree with #20, Adam, concerning his dislike of the “brewing your own detergent in a crockpot” type of PF advice.
Reading the book now…….
I get the feeling from some people who comment here (please don’t get mad at me)they feel that you’re bad or socially less valuable if you buy expensive items. There’s nothing noble about depriving yourself. Yes, living within your means IS commendable. However, buying a high dollar item is not irresponsible IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. Being financially responsible doesn’t mean never buying yourself nice things that are essentially “wants” and not “needs.” It means saving up for them and buying them without putting yourself in a financial bind.
I’ve been following Jeff on Facebook and it’s nice to hear a longer post about him. Look forward to the book that he hopefully will write about his biking adventures. I’m sure that will be interesting also.
@ AC - I’m guessing that some of it also has to do with the fact that if you are living far enough below your income, if you have a regular ‘emergency’ you don’t need an EF because you can just use the extra cash you would have otherwise saved that month.
Okay, I absolutely loved the line: “The Jones can kiss our assets.” That’s the point that I’m getting to right now and having a quippy one-liner to describe the feeling is great!
The flat-screens and ipod comment leaves me wondering about the age bracket of his cheapskates. I’m 27 and by the time I finally purchased a television, flat-screens dominated the market. Likewise, digital music was already huge when I was in high school and CD players were outdated by the time I had any kind of purchasing power.
‘Reminds me of going to Church pot lucks when I was a little kid, where there were 85 kinds of potato salad and no chicken fingers.’
Well, chickens don’t have fingers naturally
I think of our family as reasonably frugal, although we’ve scaled back on that somewhat in recent years as our income has increased–we’ve used that money to buy some extra time with our kids.
However I’m a little turned off by the attitude I sense from some of the cheapskates quoted, which seems judgmental and off-putting. E.g. “…we have Enough right where we are, and we realize that is a gift most people don’t ever choose to receive.” People have different priorities, and there’s nothing wrong with choosing to spend money in many circumstances, or with desiring more than you currently have sometimes.
Although the flat-screen TV question has already been beaten to death, we recently bought one after having no television at all for 15 years. Obviously we could live without a TV. But we thought it would be nice to have one now, and we could afford it. So am I a model cheapskate? Probably not, but it’s okay with me that people have different priorities. If that’s not okay with other people, who really has the problem?
One thing that struck me about this article is that some people are inherently “cheapskates.” It is not a lifestyle choice or a difficult decision, but it’s who they are and/or how they were raised. In some ways, I feel sorry for them, because if you cannot even fathom spending money on certain things, then you are locked into a boring existence. As financially prudent as it may be to wear things forever and never buy new gadgets, following that maxim too far can make you look like a clown. Walking around wearing a stained shirt from 20+ years ago is not the way I want to live. Saving half-soiled paper towels is also not the way I want to live.
Cheapskates say, “The Joneses can kiss our assets.” But assets are not experiences. And if you really have your financial house in order, who cares about the Joneses? Why keep score with respect to outsiders?
For the record, I like my iPod. It makes my commute tolerable. I listen to free podcasts, audiobooks from the library, and have my entire music collection at my fingertips. It’s awesome and I don’t feel bad about having that gadget. There are lots of other gadgets I don’t have, including a nice TV, and I am fine with that.
I do not like debt, but let’s be honest and admit that it’s a tool, and sometimes a useful tool (a mortgage is debt). The more I read GRS, the more I try to be sophisticated and nuanced about my relationship with money — not view everything as all or nothing. I don’t want to be locked into a narrow cheapskate existence, even if it is ultimately effective. But that’s just my perspective.
“But the very last question in my survey was a hypothetical: Someone drops a million bucks on you tomorrow, how would it change your life? More than 9 out of 10 cheapskates, in so many words, said that it wouldn’t change their lifestyles in the slightest. ”
Let me suggest that “cheapskate” may be the wrong term here. “Ascetic” would be more accurate. Anyone who has no idea of what they would do with an extra million dollars is either completely lacking in imagination or dedicated to self-denial as a value in itself.
Focusing on money and material goods is just as distorted whether it is to building your lives around wanting more or around needing less. Both obsessions miss the point. Money is just one useful material in building a fulfilling life.
“Honestly,” one couple told me, “it would just serve to reinforce what we have already learned — that we have Enough right where we are, and we realize that is a gift most people don’t ever choose to receive.”
I took a different POV off of this quote than #43. To me, it’s a wonderful illustration about how many aspects of your financial well being are within your control. The choices you make about your spending, your financial literacy, how you live your life and how you perceive your life make huge differences and are all under your control.
So many times when people I know are poor money managers or have huge debts, they have abdicated all personal responsibility for their choicse. “I’m just not good with money.” Excuse after excuse about how they “can’t” change and how their situations are not their faults. Sometimes life beats you up, no argument there, but most times it is our own past choices that set us up to be ready to recover well or sink under the waves when that happens.
I had a similar experience when I first started to move towards a healthier lifestyle. Turned out that the healthiest people don’t track their calories or obsessively go to the gym. They just live and enjoy a healthy lifestyle filled with physical activity and healthy food. It’s taken me a while to get there with health, now I’m working on the money side.
I guess I’m more of a Cheapskate that I originally imagined!!!
But it works for me
I’ll look for both books!
I can understand what they said about having no efund; for the longest time my husband and I did not have an emergency fund; despite job loss, medical emergencies, etc we adjusted our budget during those times to conserve money. One point I estimated our fixed “needs” were 45% of our income so we had room to move if need be. We also never had an explicit budget, yet lived within our means. Now that I am older with children and higher expenses I do want a dedicated emergency fund.
@22 - Re: “Also cannot shop clothing from thrifts-it might save $$ but it sure wastes A LOT of already precious time.”
[Citation needed]
A couple more thoughts-I agree with Rob (I think). There are very few true emergencies if one handles money wisely. I understand that the Ramsey advice is about getting out of debt and directed twoards people who like to spend. For them haqving that ef is worth while. But in my world, car repairs, back to school purchases, home repairs and maintenance and so on-none of these are emergencies. These are regularly recurring items that I know will happen and I know I need to have funds for. As for the budget, well, I know how much comes in, I know how much things cost, and I know about how much we regularly spend on certain things. So no, I dont have a “budget” per se. In general, I know where we are. I do however, track allm y spending (using a debit card and quicken) and compare spending to previous spending and so forth, so that I can adjust month to month if there is a large financial goal that I want to handle without taking money out of savings or investments.
Ill also agree that targeting on specific item as being “bad” whether it be financial or otherwise makes no sense. I have a three thousand dollar sewing machine. I paid cash for it, could afford it, and use it to make gifts, make money and have fun. Now, if I had a huge wall tv AND an expensive TV AND fifty other top of the line things, there would certainly be a trend. But having a couple of things just talks about my lifestyle priorites, not my money management skills.
I think I get why the EF is not as big of a deal to the cheapskate. For example my fiance and I have been living perfectly fine on his income. He now got a raise and I finally found a full time job. We also have a rental property. All of those bring in income, if I was not working or the rental was not filled we are living fine. The money from the rental and my job will pay for saving, paying down the debt (SL and mortgage), investing and paying for our wedding. All of these are important but if an emergency happened we could mostly pay for it out of cash flow not a separate EF. I still want a small EF (3 month) but otherwise I’d rather invest.
You don’t have to keep TV’s in your basement to avoid flat screens. My friends keep upgrading and giving me bigger and bigger TV’s. I upgrade too and give away the old one on freecycle. Though, so far I have been lucky in that none of them have broken. If one did, I guess I might get a flat panel (flat screen is commonly used but in fact that refers to a type of CRT with a flat and not curved surface).
I agree that you don’t need a budget if you’re naturally frugal (I’ve never had one.) I disagree that frugal people don’t need an e-fund of some kind. Especially if they’re driving an older car that is likely to need more repairs. Water heaters go out, people lose jobs, and it’s as likely to happen to a cheapskate as anyone else. The people quoted are just sticking their heads in the sand.
@ #10 Kevin, I have a CRT TV is not flat screen. My other TV is a CRT with a flat screen. The real misuse is because 2010 TVs were supposed to be distinguished from CRT “flat screens” by calling the plasma and LCD variety “flat panels”.
@ #12 Sandy L, There are plenty of great CRTs on craigslist. Some of them are barely used, and easily $300 less than a plama/lcd of the same screen size (not overall size, of course). It’s a matter of getting over the “buying new” mindset.
49 sounds like these cheapskates are flush with cash to the point they don’t have to set $ aside like us frugalites who spend the money we do have on things we like. I probably won’t buy a flat screen TV. Ever. It’s not important to me. I try to limit my TV time to less than 5 hours a week. But, isn’t the point of being frugal to save money on dumb stuff (like laundry detergent, which I make, but not in my crockpot
) so we can save up and buy something we truly value?!
I’m proud of being frugal. I also happen to love my 50″ plasma TV…bought used on craigslist, of course.
(I saved $800 over buying the exact same model new!)
I also bought an iPod recently–to control the Sonos system I received as a gift for my birthday. I didn’t want to buy the $350 Sonos controller, so I bought a $150 refurbished 8GB iPod touch instead and installed the free Sonos controller app.
Richard (my boyfriend) said, “Boy, I think it is really ironic that the only time you will buy an Apple product is because it’s *cheaper* than the alternative.” (He knows I’m frugal when it comes to computers, too…for laptops I used some connections I have to get the Lenovo employee discount, and I still build my own desktops!)
-Erica
@ Nicole #1 - It shows you are among the “one of ten” statistically. That’s all
I think many of the people that read this blog are those that have taught themselves to be frugal, and have learned the hard lessons about debt first hand. I think the cheapskates that the author is describing are those people who have been saving/living frugally since the day they were born. These are the types of people who don’t need a specific savings account labeled EF, because all of their money in their accounts is their EF, long-term savings, and short-term savings combined. They also know within a few hundred dollars how much money is in their bank account at any given time, and do not require a budget to estimate their monthly spending. For these types of people, money accumulates in their bank accounts without trying because they have very little desire to spend money on stuff. These are the same people who can cruise the mall, or stroll through wal-mart several times and never buy anything. However this does not mean they don’t spend money on the things that they care the most about. Like Barb mentioned, they spend their money on a handful of things that make a significant difference in their life, and spend a minimal amount on everything else. In regards to being given a million dollars, once all of your bills and debts are paid, you already own the few things that you truly want and use, and have $30,000 dollars in the bank, what difference is an extra million dollars going to make. After buying a bigger house, and a new car, what else is there to buy with a million dollars?
I realize the use of the word “cheapskate” may sell more books, but like others have probably said above (haven’t read the comments yet), the word cheap is not a synonym for frugal in my opinion.
My other question - how is this book different from the Millionaire Next Door? I haven’t read that one either, but just by the descriptions it sounds like the same folks could have been interviewed by both authors.
The most important point is know what the difference between being “cheap” and being “frugal” is.
Being frugal is *trying* to spend money on only things that you will continue to value once the purchase is made.
Cheap is just being cheap, almost like a milk OCD.
IMHO this is the pivotal quote in the article:
Cheapskates know that the best Things in life aren’t things. Social science has shown that Stuff tends to disappoint us over time, but experiences — how we spend our time — is what adds true value and meaning to life. Cheapskates value their time, and the things they can do with it, more than money, and the things they can buy with it.
Those same social scientists keep finding that the happiest people in the world are people living on the edge in the 3rd world who have their health and who have enough for their basic needs.
The opposite tends to be true of people going after the latest overpriced toys.
Interestingly, the list of factors for happiness tend to be the same for long life so you can find out what they are by googling on what the longest living populations have in common ( Loma Linda, California 7th day adventists, Okinowans etc ).
Basically, they have a sense of order about the universe, many & strong relationships with people, a sense of purpose about life, they physically exert themselves and they eat clean.
If you have all of that going on you will be able to wait to get the new iPhone or big screen TV when it comes down in price.
@Kevin M — The Millionare Next Door concentrates on the differences between “high earner” and “wealthy” people, and studies the differences in lifestyle.
Keep in mind also that TMND was written when being a millionaire was far less common. Many people who have worked hard and saved and are retiring now (or certainly in 10 years) will be millionaires. If it were being written today, it would likely be called “The 10 Millionaire Next Door” or “The 50 Millionaire Next Door”.
The underlying “reveal” of TMND was that these wealthy people live below their means in normal homes, drive normal cars, cheap hobbies, travel cheaply and so on. They don’t advertise their wealth by living in ginormous homes, drive expensive cars, spend thousands on golf, go to Europe yearly or all work as movie stars/sports figures/lawyers/doctors/etc.
It’s a good read, as it shows that the perception of being rich has little to do with the reality of someone’s financial position. There have been a lot of derivative works that echo the same overall message. Being frugal, I got it from the library
I’m apparently only a partial cheapskate, but that’s okay too. I like my budget and about $15,000 cash on hand…
We also have shelter dogs, a crock pot, and a 47″ flatscreen tv and surround sound. I don’t care about the Jones’, but I do have buyer’s remorse sometimes if I find out that I missed a better deal elsewhere. I value experiences over stuff, but we don’t save because of religious or environmental reasons…
Yep, partial cheapskate, that’s me.
I’m surprised by the extremely negative reaction to the word “cheapskate.” Like someone above, I think it’s being taken too literally, and is used here in the same context as the “Tightwad Gazette.”
I don’t know what I would qualify as. I have started to budget for the past year or two, we have a flat-screen TV, and I am hopelessly addicted to sushi, but on the other hand, I bought an owl necklace a few weeks ago, and I still feel a bit guilty about it. Why? Because I didn’t need it and I probably won’t use it enough for me to consider it to be valuable. It only cost $12. I guess for me, I have to find it personally valuable in that I will use the item, so the TV, trips (oh, how I love trips!), um, sushi, were all okay, but the necklace caused some buyer’s remorse.
I’ll add on to the excessively repeated subject of the flat screen TV…
My other half is a cheapskate by definition, he makes well below average salary but is one of the happiest guy ever. But there are a few things that he owns, I think more for the experience than the object itself:
1. Big flat screen TV - For his sports, which makes him very very happy. I agree with him that watching sports is just so much better on a big TV.
2. MacBook - He is glued to the laptop, and he like to be up to date on what is going on with the world. I’m sure a lot of you have this same addiction.
3. Car - The car for him is freedom. He can go visit his family, roam around town, whatever.
I am reading my personalized autographed copy right now (I know you all are jealous) After I finish reading it, I will be selling it if anyone is interested. Just kidding Jeff!
p.s. I also answer to a higher authority. I pray to the yardsale gods!
Interesting that so many “cheapskates” live without a formal, written savings plan or emergency fund. I’m way too anal to live like that, no matter how much money I have. I give them credit. Wish I could live each day not just not worrying about money, but not thinking about it!
This article sort of makes me ill. I feel that these people are toooooooo focused on money, and reduce everything to the monetary value i.e. appreciation/depreciation — what about the practical or sentimental value? For example, buying a computer used. I know this has been discussed and some people have good experiences, but what about the practical value of knowing for sure that you have a warranty for repairs, no one has fooled around with its insides (unless you can verify this personally?), etc.? To me, it’s worth paying more sometimes, instead of worrying about the resale value of a particular item. Especially clothing!!!!! Seriously?? Calculating the depreciation of an article of clothing? Nevermind how much use or wear or pleasure you got from the item?
So ultimately, it seems like these people realize that “things” don’t determine happiness, and they are content with what they have.
I can understand that people are turned off by the word “cheapskate”. This usually brings a negative image - a miserable person who is hoarding every dime he finds.
While “frugal” speaks to wisdom and self-control, and still being happy!
However, since “frugal” became a fad as a reaction to the Great Recession, I can understand the use of “cheapskate”.
Well I am generally frugal but one exception was spending $3,000 on a puppy, and then several hundred more to have him shipped across the country. For me, this was an example of the “spend money on what you care about the most” philosophy.
There were a few comments that said they don’t have a budget but they do track their spending. How exactly are those two things different from one another? Because they don’t plan how to spend their money?
@Rob: We don’t budget, but we track our spending in Quicken.
The difference is that we don’t spend a lot of time ahead of time deciding where our money should go, then trying make our spending fit into different categories. Feels like being “on a diet”.
Instead, we spend according to our needs or habits, then take a look at where the money is going, and make adjustments as necessary, according to our goals, values, shortfalls, etc.
I think of our approach as starting with reality, and evolving our spending, rather than starting with an idealized plan and trying to avoid screwing it up.
It’s all psychological, eh?
I agree with Ross Williams in that I think the real term is Ascetic rather than cheapskate. Ascetics have a relatively simple life and they deny themselves of material satisfactions. Cheapskates try and get the material satisfactions and normal pleasures at the expense of others.
The author should have wrote a book about the Tolstoyian or Emersonian next door.
I am glad I opened the discussion about the emergency fund. I personally, couldn’t imagine having 8 months of income sitting in a savings accounts not making dividends or growth beyond simple interest.
JD-
you look soo cool! can i be like you
@ Ross #45 “Anyone who has no idea of what they would do with an extra million dollars is either completely lacking in imagination or dedicated to self-denial as a value in itself.”
Couldn’t agree more. If they don’t want the million themselves, there are schools to build or improve, kids on public assistance who can’t get the braces or eyeglasses they need, libraries to endow, shelters of all kinds chronically short of funds, millions of acres of land to protect from development … .
Whether they are frugal or cheapskates or misers or tightwads or pennypinchers or whatever term is preferred, if an extra million dollars wouldn’t change their lifestyles, that means they are content, which is great for them.
And you know, the funny thing is, it wouldn’t really change mine! It would just remove 100% of the financial worry from my view of the future. I guess the people in Jeff’s book don’t have any financial worry. Yay them.
I think it’s just that whiff of sanctimoniousness that sets some of us off … as in the discussion about J.D.’s real millionaire next door and their boat trip.
This post rocks! It would be great to see more of this type of post. I would just request that this could be done in a series of articles on thrift. Perhaps, including more practical tips/information, where to start for the overspent/keeping up with the Joneses types, ask the readers for there best frugal tips.
Thanks!
@28. I love Craigslist, but am not a big fan of used electronics. I did check CL before we bought the TV and the used prices weren’t much better than the new ones for the size we were looking at.
Our TV happened to die 2 days before the superbowl and although I’d be okay with it, my husband wasn’t going to be without a TV during a superbowl when his team was in it.
I love used stuff, but I spend money too. I much prefer earning a living wage and splurging on some things. I still think buying 1 new TV 14 years is more than reasonable.
Ron, as far as budgeting, I guess it depens on your definition. To me, having a budget is figuring out your income, looking at your spending categories, allocate the money coming in amongs those categories and compare what is spent at the end with what was allocated. I dont do that (even now on a pension). I do track my money on a pretty regular basis to ensure the safety of my accounts since I use a card for everything, and other reasons. I also do a monthly summary. Now, if when I do that summary I see that I have spend what I consider to be a large amount in that area, I may make a mental note to try and adjust that. but thats it. Admittedly at my age Ihave a real good mental image of what things cost overall, which helps a great deal.
@67 Anna and those against thrift clothing
I fully understand those who do not want to shop for clothing at a thrift store. It can take time, sometimes it is hard to find even one thing or maybe you have an aversion to clothing that may have been worn before. That’s fine (more for me-yay!). No one’s forcing you to do it or even like it. I’m sure you do frugality in your own way and that is good. Maybe, just maybe though, you could make the leap that others get huge value out of shopping thrift for any of the following reasons…
Thrift store clothing:
-is cheaper monetarily and every little bit counts.
-may include some amazing deals on designer items and/or classic items that have NEVER BEEN WORN.
-may include the size clothing that works for you (I cannot emphasize this enough when it comes to women’s clothing).
-can often last longer because it is older. Clothes, in general, were made better than the average cheap clothing of today (see any Urban Outfitters shirt that fades after one wash.)
Everyone should be frugal in their own way. We are talking “personal” finance… so everyone probably has a personal frugality view and do what works for them. Awesome!
As for thrift clothing and depreciation not being worth it? My never worn 10 buck Ferragamos and 5 buck denim dress that fits like a glove beg to differ.
your poll is broken, I chose #1
Yes, my bank offers free checking with no strings attached.
The results show 100% chose,
Yes, because I use certain account services regularly (debit cards for purchases, online bill pay, electronic statements, etc.).
Just fyi so you can fix it.
Another thought on thrift clothes. Does it take less time to shop in a department clothing store? I find the time is equal for thrift and new clothes shopping.
The reason us real, true tightwads or cheapskates (the ones who are already living well and wouldn’t change much with an extra $1 million) have to keep reclaiming former pejoratives is that the neutral words get used up by trendy frugalistas who think eating out only one meal a day, or only going to the stylist every 5 weeks, is a radical frugality move.
P.S. the reason these folks don’t budget, don’t categorize their money, and give more than average to charity is that they *aren’t* focused on money, contrary to all the commenters saying it’s a sign of hyperfocus on money. People are tripping on the word “cheap” and missing the meaning.
My Dad bought the latest gadget when it first came out (not talking electronics, but things like foot massagers, immersion blenders, food processors, electric ice cream maker), but wouldn’t fix the plumbing. My mother wanted to build a deck, and my husband agreed to build it for her if she bought the materials. They had plenty of money, but my father wouldn’t let her buy the materials. He paid the mortgage off in less than 15 years. But he didn’t replace the linoleum in the kitchen even after it was cracked and peeling after 40 years of use. He kept his car mechanically sound and put new tires on it, but never repaired the dents, cracked windshield, etc. We bought him a new mattress because he didn’t want to spend the money. I put my foot down when he wanted to have an assisted living apartment with a shared bathroom. So is that considered a cheapskate or what?
About thrift stores; one of the reasons I shop at them is that you have a much wider selection than all of the trendy stuff that looks the same.
About emergency funds; we have no labeled ‘emergency fund’, we just have a big pot of savings. We routinely set aside about 30% of our after-tax income. That money is available when needed for trips, large expenses, whatever. When the pile gets too big, we buy a CD. Or put some into Roths, if I have enough earned income.
Also we have no budget, but I do track everything in Quicken.
I’m a pretty good cheapskate. I despise debt too, and I’m very intentional about spending. The only spending I regret is the random spur-of-the-moment stuff I do in social situations, and I’m getting better about it as I realize that it’s not a huge budget buster.
I also don’t write out more than a rough budget of how much I want to spend, and I don’t bother with that “emergency savings” fund — I just have a big savings account that I throw everything in, and I have an internal monitor of when I can splurge out of it and when I can’t. I very rarely do — I usually pay for everything, including travel, out of checking. If I want to take a big trip, I save up for it in the checking account.
I’d also like to add that I’ve never made more than $23k in a year. Last year, I made $11k (tho I did creatively manage to avoid paying any rent and also didn’t live with my parents or couch surf).
I feel like my spending is the equivalent of the people that can eat “whatever they want” and not gain any weight. I just have a good internal monitor. I don’t buy everything — I weigh what I do and don’t want and always make it work. Now if only I can do that with food — that’s the area where I do have to chart, track my progress, and agonize a bit to stay on chart. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, I suppose.
About thrift clothing: I don’t have a citation, but I do have personal experience that it takes more time to shop there. Some stores don’t categorize by size, so you have to look at EVERYTHING. Once you do find something, unless it’s obviously new, you have to inspect the whole thing. It’s time I don’t feel like spending (oh, and there’s the issues from my past. I’ll claim them) If you enjoy it, great. You can thank me for buying new so you have a second-hand market.
About flat screens TVs (or whatever your vice is): When we lived in Turkey, people would obsess whether or not they got the best price for a rug. Guess what? If you found a rug you loved, you had a good time buying it, and you paid a price you were satisfied with, then move on. Same thing with a TV; if you love it, you are happy with the price (and you are okay with the method of payment) then move on.
About the word cheapskate: Like others, it does have negative connotations to me. There are 2 kinds–the better than thou because I don’t spend money and the truly, embarrassing take-advantage-of-everyone kind. But that generates discussion, which generates buzz on the Internet, and what’s the saying among publicists? There is no such thing as bad news?
I’m a cheapskate wannabe!
Great stuff–its nice to know that there are so many more people out there like me, and also, that there are so many people that aren’t simply stupid with their money.
Bravo cheapskates of the world!
Super advice! I think I’m much closer to a cheapskate than I thought. I still have more progress to make in my life-transformation process.
Keep up the good posts!
Few comments:
1. If one has transitioned from “having” or “owning” to experiencing, then the value of something you “own” is irrelevant. Take a car. If you can SUSTAIN a monthly payment, and you enjoy and like the experience of driving the new car, you do it. That a car loses 20% of it’s value as soon as it’s out of the lot is irrelevant.
2. Penny pinching is good to learn financial discipline. And also to learn to buy based on quality rather than quantity. Once one gets disciplined though, I think you don’t have to be as tightfisted.
3. For me, saving for savings sake, i.e. endless savings is not the idea. This blog speaks of social capital. Social capital in a way is a an “emergency fund”, I don’t think people need a ton of savings really.
All in my opinion–and this is all assuming someone’s become financially disciplined.
Intriguing commentary as always GRS community! Poster # 82 (Wondering) - I especially found your post thought provoking. Family relationships and money management go hand and hand. On so many PF blogs, every post is from the perspective of an individual-when the reality is a lot if not most money decisions are joint decisions.
JD-I would love to see more articles exploring the relationship between money and family. Is it fiscal abuse when one spouse is completely beholden to another spouse financially, to the point they have to beg incessantly to get house repairs? Has frugality gone too far when your house becomes a safety hazard? Do women that work or are career minded generally have more leverage in their households-is that fair to hardworking stay at home mothers? What about SSN and retirement for women, etc.? Actuarially speaking women live longer -are they prepared to retire? What about decimating your savings and retirement to put a child through college? Is that wise? If you are going to touch on any of these, please no salespeople - and reputable statistics. A series may even be appropriate if you are so inclined JD.
No one on here needs to be offended over the use of the term “cheapskate” any more than one ought to be offended by buying a big yellow book called “Windows for Dummies.”
They’re both tongue-in-cheek.
Thank you Dienne @ 30, that makes sense to me now! I love threads like this because it’s so fascinating to hear about what works for other people as far as keeping a household going. For instance my first impression was that a basement full of old TVs qualifies as “hoarding” … but then I remembered that we’ve got 4 vacuum cleaners and about 15 pairs of scissors in this little house, all of which get used.
We don’t have a budget either, we use a spending plan/allowance system which works for us.
We do have an emergency fund, which is labeled summer home in the idea that we’d like to use the savings for a summer home at some point. I find savings for summer home easier than saving for unlucky events.
Regarding flat screen tvs, we got one this year and only because our old 1980s tv finally died. I think the author uses flat screen tvs as an example of overspending b/c they used to be so expensive and those that had them often just bought them to replace perfectly good tube tvs.
I agree with #58 asdf. The folks he’s interviewing likely are quite far down the path (or have always been on the path) of good money management. For those of us over our heads and clueless it’s very helpful to learn from those to whom money management is second nature.
And to all those negative comments…geesh, lighten up a little!! What works for one person doesn’t have to work for another, and what is good for one person to purchase doesn’t have to be good for another.
@Shash, 78
I definitely understand shopping for thrift store clothes– I have spent some time and money in Goodwill, believe me!! It’s not at all that I’m opposed to buying used clothing, only that to worry about the depreciation of clothing is ludicrous.
I’m a cheapskate and proud of it!!! We have an old television we bought for 50.00 and the screen minimizes to half while watching but we are waiting until it burns out before we buy another. My Dentist once asked me how we live on a teacher’s salary and I asked “how do people NOT live on a teacher’s salary”. I’ve always thought we lived well and happy with everything we need, not a materialistic life, a good savings and able to enjoy life.
Well there’s a big difference in being a cheapskate versus saving and getting good deals on things. I absoltuely hate it when like you’re invited over to a friends house for dinner. Great then once you get over there there’s all the OOPS can you quickly run to the store and grab me this and this… NO you simply invited your friends to come over to say hi and eat… They invited you for dinner, drinks or whatever… I’m not gonna be you’re go getter because your either to lazy to go grab it, it’s your damn fault you didn’t think ahead and then just expect your friends to always pitch in for something…. Yeah of course beer is obvious to bring along but don’t be a cheapskate and then have this plan to have your friends over and then go oops.. People and friends will distance themselves from you if your such a pinny pincher, your so overly frugal and such a cheapskate that you always ask for your friends to bring this, buy that cause your too much of a cheapass and believe me friends and people will catch on quickly to your being a cheapskate and then to add to the insult is when the cheapskate easily has money.