Reader Story: Working for Uncle Sam Overseas

The large private company that my sister works for often sends employees overseas for months or years at a time. The monetary and vacation benefits are huge. Though one of the locations is Siberia… not quite as nice as their other international assignments. Though they do provide full maid service on top of everything else. If one is looking to retire early and see the world it’s a great way to do both.

In her company, mostly the young singles take advantage.

Lucky You!

I have applied for many job postings abroad on usajobs.gov and never been considered for an interview.

Thanks for sharing your experience Mike!

The major turning point in my financial life was the two years my husband and I spent overseas with the federal government. We were both working and we have no kids — most importantly, there were few ways to spend money there.

Our jobs and living situation were stressful but the pain has faded and it’s satisfying to look at our fat 401K and savings.

PS To Stephen, it’s not just you, these jobs are hard to get! They use a strict (and somewhat inscrutable) points system. I missed out on several jobs because I had a 3.48 GPA and would have gotten extra ‘points’ with a 3.50.

My husband and I met in Germany- he was military and I DoD. We loved every minute of our time there. Our children (27 years later) have the travel bug since they spent half of their elementary overseas. My daughter is trying to get on to DoD right now. She wants her son to have the same travel experiences she had as a child.
Not so easy to get on though…DoD is a tough place to get a job.

How did you cope with the language barrier, or did you spend so much time with other government employees that it didn’t really get in the way?

I visited Japan and played tourist for a week in 2009 (part of a longer trip that included Portland and Hawaii). Next time I’d like to stay much longer, but I found the kanji a bit intimidating!

Uhhgh…the federal government! No ill will intended to individual employees, but I bolted out of there as fast as I could after several years. If you’re into EXTREME routine with often nothing to do, busy body bullies and all around existential malaise, join the federal government.

John, had my husband lived we were looking at retiring in Germany. We might not even have worked. But because we would be using Germany medical care (paid for by Fed Inusrance) we could have managed to get paid in dollars and spend Euros.

Marsha, I expect how regimented the job is depends on the department and the job, just like anywhere else. I mean there are all kinds of jobs in the federal government, just like anywhere else. In my husbands life time he was a recreation manager, an Officers Club Manager, a Budget department Chief, and eventually a Finance officer. While the last two were real “office jobs”, none of them were ever boring, and minimally regimented. On the other hand, I was a lowly admin assistant, and my job was extremely regimented by the fact of the job itself and who I worked for.

I lived in southern Japan for a few yrs and enjoyed the experience most of the time. On the flip side, it was the hardest 2 yrs of my life. As for the benefits and are they really necessary? Absolutely. This is an adventure, but a heck of a lot harder than everyone seems to think with the isolation, hard work, and stress. There is a reason people are compensated so well. They have to do this to get these employees. I was able to get ahead financially, but there was a price to pay. In the end, I’d do it again. Smart move and certainly a change from the everyday 9 to 5 stateside job.

I’m as liberal as they come, but I can’t help but think of this in the context of government spending, and find it all a little excessive. I can’t think of any good reason why non-military Federal employees working overseas shouldn’t cover the cost of their own living expenses, considering how generous their compensation is to begin with. Perhaps a cost-of-living offset is warranted in some cases, where the COL of the host nation is exponentially higher than it is in the US, but 100% coverage of almost all living expenses? It just seems a little absurd, wasteful and unnecessary. And the fact that these are tax-free benefits itches my bitch bone a little bit too.

@17 Michele: This is fairly standard compensation for overseas workers in the private sector as well. Living overseas is not easy. I’ve personally seen several people crack after a few months overseas and head back home–this is not cost effective. The incentives are intended to keep qualified workers living overseas. A simple COL adjustment is not going to provide incentive to get the right people to move half-way around the world from their friends and family. Further, private sector workers qualify for additional tax benefits such as the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (due to taxation in another country), that federal employees do not.

I agree that the reimbusement is normal for companies or anyone else. The reasoning is this-because you are overseas for often only a coupole years, you maintain your original residence. Ideally you would get a renter, but I can tell you tryhing to rent a house in many areas especially from afar is expensive and offten impossible. We did it, but we knew folks who left their houses empty, paid a mortage. It’s also worth noting that there are not enough people to fill those job, and most many necessary professional jobs overseas go wanting. My husband was the budget manager, doing and controlling budtets according to regulartions and monitoring cost effectivenss and his job was empty for almsot two years before we went overseas. There is a doctor shortage as well as other shortages. Hence the compensation.

Great story, thanks Mike! To be fair, his compensation/benefits sounds similar to military benefits overseas — so instead of focusing on this one job, consider the agency context. DOD usually has plenty of money to use, as evidenced by the “Death and Taxes” poster of the US budget: http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/

@22 Good luck not buying anything made from petroleum products. Just saying.

P.P.S. # 22 Tyler K’s cynical critcisms are always entertaining to say the least lol…

@22 and others who are cranky that somebody is getting a good deal out there. You seem to have forgotten that government jobs don’t exist in a vacuum. These jobs are competing for candidates with the private sector, so the government does have to offer comparable benefits so that they can attract top people and, you know, do that excellent job you seem so keen that they do while over there spending your tax dollars. Is it really helpful to the discussion here to sidetrack it with a whine about how your tax dollars are spent?

Equally it seems that a lot of people are forgetting that “government” is a pretty large entity doing a lot of different things. Your experience and knowledge of one tiny aspect of goverment workings is not necessarily reflective of all the work, and its relative efficiency and importance, that is being done by goverment employees. I sincerly hope that nobody here is arrogant enough to suggest they have full knowledge and oversight of everything that the US government does.

How about we focus on the idea presented in this article – that taking an overseas job with great benefits is another way to do well financially. A lot of people haven’t considered this before.

I have studied and worked in Germany before and currently reside back at home in Australia, but I do think often about taking a job in my industry (oil and gas) overseas where I would get paid a lot more and pay less tax.

My take on the advice above is to make sure you get very, very good tax law advice and make the most of your situation. I know in Australia your tax status and how different income earnt oversesas is treated is quite complicated and I imagine it is the same in other countries.

You also need to factor in the additional cost of extra travel in your budgets. Will you be buying expensive flights back home for the family to attend Christmas? Will you suddenly want to spend way more than normal on weekend travel adventures now that you’re living somewhere exotic?

@Marcella:
You hadn’t posted this when I started writing my last comment.

You’re right. The government has to offer competitive compensation to attract employees. Like I said, I’m fine with that, as long as these people do good work.

You’re also right that my experience in a single branch of a single federal agency is not necessarily representative. It could be the only agency in the entire federal government that’s not very efficient. I’ve heard a lot of other stories from other branches of government that are similar, though, and I bet you have, too.

Is it *helpful* to discuss our tax dollars at work here? I don’t know, but it at least seems *relevant* in a post on government employment. Comments can just be food for thought, there’s no criteria that says they must be helpful directly.

To Fontaine: I’m currently serving as a Civil Servant in Afghanistan. Trust me, it isn’t the lap of luxury. They do pay me Hazard Pay, (imagine that) and relocation allowance but I live in a metal container that is virtually a closet. My bathroom is down the hall and shared. I’m confined. I wear bullet proof vest and travel with shooters. So depending on the area, there can be perks at little cost to the gov’t. (We have someone who cleans our bathrooms, halls etc.) It is incentive for those of us who leave the US, our families, Friday night happy hour, and the conveniences of our lives.

To: Stephen, if your resume is not using the same “keywords” as the announcement you aren’t making it thru the computer scanners to get an interview. Rework the resume as many times as you need using the same key words…if your resume says Responsible for and the job announcement says In charge of, change your resume. If you are qualified and haven’t gotten an interview I’m betting that is the reason.

@33-Patti – That advice about using the right keywords is helpful. I’ve applied to several jobs through USAjobs.gov and never gotten a response despite being qualified for the position. The site is a bear to set up, but it’s helpful to know what I can work on for the next opportunity I see.

Government jobs no longer compete with the private sector…that is to say, they compensate far above what the private sector offers when combining pay and benefits.
In my field, everyone desires a Government job, but it is indeed very difficult to enter the civil service. Hundreds compete for the same job, and usually, the job recs are designed for a specific person, but the rec most be opened publically. Further, various classes are given priority over others. So, yes, it’s a dream job in many cases – the pay and benefits – the possibility for a PENSION! are fabulous. “Service” should be taken out of Civil Service at this point…now it’s a luxury job from which it’s very difficult to be fired!

My dad’s job transferred him overseas. We lived in France two separate times and he also spent a few years in China. In France he received a larger salary to compensate for the greater cost of living there; in both places he received additional compensation for working overseas. His employer also paid our tuition to the private American School of Paris. And I think he got more vacation time. It’s challenging moving to a foreign country as a child, and it can be difficult to be so far from friends and family, but it’s an amazing opportunity; if there’s a financial bonus too, so much the better.

I find this fascinating… I work for the Fed gov’t and really all you have to do is have an applicable education, maybe certifications, a good work history a decent personality … it was not that hard to get my job. I am also intrigued by the possibility of growing my career by working for the DOD someday Japan sounds awesome !! What the writer did not mention is your GS salary level is static when you are overseas with DOD– I don’t believe you get step raises, and the jobs that I have seen posted that I would qualify for at that static level is about 20K lower than my US level– so really great to have costs of living covered, but you may be earning less cash per month…
@37 — Really ? the “service” should be taken out of “civil service” ??? You need to follow some VA counselors and social workers around for awhile. We serve. All Day every day. Plus I know people without degrees and certs (and the student loans) who make way more in the private sector in cash, stock options etc.. etc… then I ever will.

I’m the “Mike” who wrote this post.

To those that criticize the benefits for civilians overseas, I agree that it is healthy to question where tax dollars go. Fed employees are tax payers as well! The cost of living in Yokosuka, Japan, was very expensive and would be prohibitive for the majority of civilians without the benefits Uncle Sam provides. And until the economic downturn, not many people criticized our salaries, which (at least in my field) were not even close to the salaries of our counterparts in the private sector. We accepted lower salaries for the security and stability of government work. Now, we’re at a time when that stability and security mean something, and private sector folks have begun to criticize the salaries. Year over year, though, our salaries don’t fluctuate much – and a holiday bonus is a rare treat, and a fraction of what some of my private sector friends have admitted to receiving.

As for my job, I worked for an engineering command, which allowed me to assist with construction projects and compliance requirements. I provided much of the coordination between our military customers and the contractors that worked with us. I additionally managed as much of the effort as we could muster in-house with the resources we had available.

@9 Roo and @26 Adrian – Coping with the language barriers was difficult at first. We lived off base (on the economy), and had to adapt to the kanji, katakana, and hiragana characters as best as we could in the limited time we had. I had Berlitz Japanese on my iPod the entire tour there, and picked up very limited conversational Japanese. More often than not, Japanese who were interested in talking to me approached with English, as it was a great opportunity for them to brush up on their foreign language skills also. Culturally, Japan is a wonderful experience from my Western perspective. In so many ways, Japan has adopted the Western culture and in others, Japan is doing its best to preserve its unique history. There are always challenges and differences of views, but I feel that way about my neighbors and friends here in America, too.

@11 Marsha – I have been in various jobs within the fed gov. Not all of them are created equally. Sounds like you might have experienced one of the awful ones.

@14 grrlpup – Looks like comment #34 provided you an accurate response, and I agree that it is still not equal. Perhaps in time…

@36 Vernor – Sometimes it is difficult to know who is going to “crack” when they get overseas. The government has agreements with our host nations that spell out how to respond when individuals don’t represent well the intended purposes of their overseas tours. We can be told to leave at any point, which is generally enough of a motivator to keep us all minding our P’s and Q’s.

Your comparison of ESLs (in S. Korea or even in Japan) to civilians is a comparison of apples and oranges. Generally, ESLs go overseas right after college graduation with the intention of fully indoctrinating themselves into the host nation environment. I would argue that ESLs accept the lower pay and lack of American benefits as part of their “easy in” to the host nation. Some good friends of mine are ESLs in Japan, and they have absolutely enjoyed it – but they are also Japanophiles… people who just had to be over there regardless of wages or benefits.

@37 Becky and others who mention the challenges of finding government employment – I don’t know what to tell you. USAJobs isn’t the easiest of websites to navigate, but I would double check to make sure you’ve listed your resume properly. If you don’t indicate exactly where you’re seeking employment (I keep mine open to worldwide opportunities, pretty much everywhere where kids are allowed), you might run into some difficulties. Also, someone mentioned “keywords”… very important.

Another tip, start calling and emailing possible “ins” that you might know. I’ve interviewed folks in the past who simply “knew someone who knew someone who was in the system”, who created a networking opportunity (much like in the private sector). I’ve seen all kinds of turnover this past year in my current job, and we’re picking up new people all the time from outside the fed gov. If it’s something you’re interested in, just keep trying!

What a cool story! Thanks for posting. I’ve kind of had government jobs in the back of my head during my job search, but I never really gave it much though until you posted this. I have been wanting to go abroad my whole life, and doing it concurrently with an awesome job (I’m one of those adventure seeking young singles) sounds like my kind of venue.

Thanks again!

I’ve lived in quite a lot of places around the globe now.

Just thought I’d add; there’s not much of a point specifically looking for a job somehow related to a U.S. government.

You get the same type of benefits in the private sector, albeit I think they’re a bit more accommodating. When I lived in Zurich, my company gave me a “personal travel allowance” equivalent to the value of 4 round-trips to the U.S. on business class. Any business-related trips were on a separate post, this cash allowance was purely for personal travel.

Most companies will cover all your living expenses in the foreign country, including car costs, but they will discount your salary level with a given percentage. You’ll still probably get an effective 75% raise out of it.

It’s not so much about working for the U.S. government abroad, it’s just about being willing to work abroad. Most major companies will want to bring in some of their own nationals to be a part of international teams, so you can get a job on virtually any level.

I’m in private banking, and these kind of deals are quite usual. Most of the time, telling the boss you’d like to work internationally is enough to get you a transfer. Some of my friends in the oil business describe similar accommodations, although in my opinion, they have a tendency to end up in some … interesting places: Nigeria, Angola, Iran. Private banking will take you to Mauritius, the Caymans and Switzerland. Take your pick.

I am a DOD nurse at a base overseas and love the opportunity. There are negatives if your are near, as I am, retirement age. The base pay is lower than in the US because you are not paid locality pay. Our retirement is based on the top pay we earn for three years-and our LQA is not figured into this like locality pay is in the US. Of course it pays to be frugal and bank as much as you can since you have most of your housing costs paid for. I find I have pretty expensive out of pocket expensives since the utility, water and waste disposal is always above what they recommended I should be alloted. That money can be recouped, but only on a yearly basis with stringent record keeping. I always have to laugh when I see people remark about how much government employees are making vs. people in the private sector. Most of us are here because we love working with military families, not because we are getting rich off of the tax payers. I could get paid much more as a nurse (with almost 20 years experience) in the “outside world” but I have both time invested and an emotional investment in my job.