Hello from Portland, Oregon! After nearly a month on the road, Kris and I are once again sleeping in the comfort of our own bed. Our wardrobes now consist of more than four shirts per person. (“It’s weird to have so many clothes to choose from,” Kris told me yesterday.)
We have no jet-lag to speak of, but I’m fighting a lingering sinus infection, and Kris went to the doctor to learn that she has bronchitis. This pair of illnesses put a damper on our last few days in Paris; we spent a lot of time sleeping in the hotel room instead of sight-seeing.
As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I made many observations about personal finance on our trip, but I’m not sure I’m ever going to collect them all into one place as a blog post. On Monday, I plan to discuss the Big Idea I got from this trip, but I think most of the little stuff will just remain in my head as fodder for future discussions.
For now, though, here are a few of the things that impressed me most:
A tiny produce store on the corner of a Florence street.
- Here in Portland, there aren’t many single-purpose food stores. In France and Italy, they’re the rule rather than the exception. As you walk along the streets, you constantly pass bakeries and fish markets and produce stands. I like it.
- In France and Italy, there were lots of short (day-long or hours-long) strikes. And, of course, France has had a huge series of strikes over retirement reform.
- In Italy (especially northern Italy), it’s customary for each person to pay to use a table in a bar or restaurant. You’re charged coperto as a cover charge if you plan to sit to drink your coffee.
- In both France and Italy, people don’t drink tap water — at least not in restaurants. They pay for bottled water. I’m not a fan of this custom. The water generally costs €3 or €4 per bottle! As a point of comparison, you can generally buy a bottle of house wine for that price — which is why when many Italians dine out, they drink wine in place of water. (We drank so much wine in Italy…)
- Italy has a delightful blend of transportation. People use Smart cars, scooters, motorcycles, bicycles, buses, subways, and their own two feet. There are plenty of regular cars, too, but most of them are small (lots of Mini Coopers!). I think we saw just two SUVs during the ten days we were in Italy.
Fun juxtaposition of transportation: scooter, Smart car (parked sideways), and SUV.
For now, I have a lot of work to do in order to catch up with the blog and its related tasks. I did a great job of preparing guest posts (thanks for all who contributed!), but there was nothing I could do about the hundreds of e-mails that have piled up in my absence, or about the other tasks involved with this site. The next ten days are going to be busy.
I’m excited about getting back to work. If you have any suggestions for topics I should tackle soon, please let me know in the comments! (And if you want to read the travelog of our adventures, stay tuned to jdroth.com, where I’ll be posting city-by-city recaps of our trip.)
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Part of the reason restaurants sell bottled water is because tap water in Italy is often not potable. My host mother had a filter installed on the kitchen sink and she made very clear that we were never to get water from anywhere else in the house. When I was studying in Italy, there were groups collecting signatures for petitions to get the government to improve water quality.
I know that in Florence, at least, you pay a tax to have a very large SUV or similar. Many of the streets in the city are so narrow that a Hummer in a spot at a 45 degree angle to the road can block the entire roadway. It’s a real problem.
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People do drink tap water in restaurants in France though if you ask for just water they’ll assume you want bottled. You have to ask for “une carafe d’eau” (a carafe of water).
Not sure about Italy.
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Glad to hear you’re back home safely, J.D.! Hope you and Kris get over your sicknesses soon. I’m looking forward to your “Big Idea” post on Monday.
I appreciate you sharing the differences you noted about the way things are in Europe vs. America. I find cultural differences fascinating. We can learn so much from each other if we’ll take the time to observe, reflect, and think!
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Just a quick note on the bottled water. I think you’ll find (at least in France, Germany and the like) that the bottled water is primarily water with gas, not still water. Its an aquired habit and one that says with you. I drink tap water (and did the entire seven years I was in germany, its extremely safe) but I adore fizzy water and frugal or not,now have pelligrino regularly with my meals. Sparkling water is also about ten times more refreshing than still water in the heat. the other thing you dont mention that was a reals hock when we moved to europe is that chain restaurants are almost non existant. theres a cafe or a gasthaus or creperie on every corner, the number of restaurants is probably tripled, but there are not chilis and olive garden and so on and so forth. After living in that environement for seven years, I dont eat ain chains at all, only privately owned restaurants, even if it increased my cost per dinner out. I could also comment on many other cultural differences, but many of them are “living differences” rather than visiting differences. For example, in germany there is no place you cannot take a train to.
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Welcome back, J.D! I’m anxious to read your Big Idea post.
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Interesting trivia — at least for me. After spending an hour weeding out the spam, receipts, and other non-essentials, I have 113 real e-mails that need responses. (That’s about four real e-mail messages per day, and lots of junk that I have to filter through to find the real stuff.) I figure each real e-mail takes about ten minutes to answer, so I’m looking at about 20 hours of e-mail alone to catch up!
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I glanced at the photos before reading the post, and i thought – oh, i remember seeing the smart cars parked like that in Italy. And, gosh, that market looks JUST like the one we picked up strawberries at in Florence a couple of years ago. So funny to see it IS, in fact, in Florence!
I couldn’t drink wine while I was in Italy (pregnant, poorly planned, i know), so I drank lots of Pellegrino (yum!).
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My girlfriend and I will be following in your footsteps in a couple of months, from Paris to Italy and back, and I’d be interested in how you felt about navigating the train system. Did you take overnight trains? Was it simple to just get on and go to the next stop? Did you buy a Eurail pass and was it worth the money?
Glad you made it back in one peice, though a little sick. Get well soon!
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Welcome back! Just FYI, people do regularly drink tap water at restaurants in France and Italy. (I’ve lived in both.) You just have to ask for it, and it’s a very normal thing to request. If you’re a tourist – and I promise you’re easy to spot – they will usually either assume that you want bottled water or they will bring you bottled water unless you very specifically say otherwise because they make more profit that way.
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Not potable? Really? I always drank the water in Europe!
We are thinking of traveling in Europe in a few months….
any great ideas on saving money- but still enjoying?
Welcome home!
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Welcome home, J.D.!
I loved the way you went about documenting your travels — still keeping us, the readers — in your thoughts and sending fabulous timely photographs — allowing us to live vicariously through your tales!
The guest posts (as you can tell) were mostly englightening, but they didn’t seem to garner quite the amount of comments or attention as your very own articles do. (2-3 articles a day were quite suprising!)
My favorite, ofcourse, had to be that of Gail-Vaz Oxlade, and not only because I have the pleasure of personally knowing her, but because I consider you both the father and mother of personal finance blogging — your caring and very personalized apporoach alongside her chastizing and informative nature really helped me completely alter my perception of and respect towards my money.
I would love to know what you enjoyed the most as well as the least about your vacation?
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Can’t wait to hear of your adventures, that should be nice at least. Getting back to work is definitely a pain for at least the first two days.
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I lived in Germany for 3 years and could never get used to the carbonated water. It just tastes weird to me. Give me a some good old-fashioned tap water any day.
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I’m looking forward to hearing what you learned personal-finance-wise from your trip. I married into an English family, and I’m forever fascinated to learn how Brits “do” anything: money, healthcare, food, whatever. Sometimes, it makes me thankful that my culture does things differently; more often, it teaches me something new that I can use to improve my own life.
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Welcome back to the USA!
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I loooooooooove sparkling water. It was the gateway drink to kick soda forever.
Don’t get me started on French charcuteries & patisseries or I’ll shed tears… how I miss them!
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Welcome back! As others have said you have to ask for “a carafe d’eau” in France, otherwise they will bring you bottled water because restaurants make a great profit on it.
Just curious: I thought Kris was a teacher (I could be wrong). How did she get so much time off?
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@ Steven@hundredgoals ….
My own short experience (mainly Italy) is that it is easy to get on a train and go. I did not have a eurail pass so I cannot say whether it would be a good deal or not. One thing you want to remember in Italy is that there might be multiple trains to get to the same destination but they might make more/less stops. Pick a train with fewer stops, it can make as much as 2 hours difference in how long it takes you to get somewhere depending on how far you’re going. Generally, I think Eurail trains make fewer stops, may have food compartments and have a/c but I think you can also use your pass (maybe with an upcharge?) on the more regional trains as well if that’s all that’s available to wherever you want to go.
Also, if it matters to you, the more regional the train the less likely it will have a/c. Also, don’t use the bathrooms while the train is in station – usually it just drops waste on the tracks as it’s moving so it’s bad form to stink up the station.
One last note, a particular difference from the US – on the weekends, especially Sundays, you might find fewer trains running. Just because there was a 9pm train running Sat night, does not mean there will be a 9pm train on Sunday. If you decide to extend a stay in a particular spot (ahem, Cinque Terra), you might find that your travel options have shrunk as a result.
Good luck and have fun! It’s not difficult, just go with a spirit of adventure and flexibility and any little hiccups will be more like funny stories for when you get home rather than episodes of anger and frustration.
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@Steven
I used the Eurail 6 day pass this past May when I went to Italy. It was great for my first European solo trip but for future trips to Italy, I wouldn’t buy it.
The pass pays for your ticket but it doesn’t guarantee you a seat on the train. You need to buy a reservation (usually around 10 euro) for most trains except the Regionale ones. I went to Italy during the shoulder season so I never had a problem getting a reservation/booking a ticket. This might be different if you went during the high season.
The Trenitalia website will show you the prices of all the trips except the Regionale ones. When I got there, I found out that those trains were much cheaper than I anticipated and not worth the $ I spent on the Eurail pass.
It all depends on where you are going, how fast you want to go, and how much you are willing to pay to get there.
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@Jaime B: Thanks for the tips! I’ve done the train in Europe before (Germany/Luxembourg) so I know a little bit about how to navigate the trains.
This time I’ll probably get a Eurail Pass because I think I’ll end up saving money with it. I guess we’ll find out in a couple months!
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Another way for some of you young’uns to save money is to join the Couchsurfing site. I am too old for that LOL, but my DS1 has done it many times and has always had great experiences.
When he was in grad school he did it before arriving for his internships abroad. He says it was a great way to arrive in a new totally unknown country and make friends and tour guides along the way. I remember calling him his first weekend in one of the Stans, I said poor thing you are all alone there, what are you going to do this weekend? He said no worries, Mom, I’m staying with new friends and we have a great weekend planned.
I said wow you already have friends there?! He said yes. Then he told me about the couchsurfing site LOL.
Now he’s out of school and employed and he lives in guest houses instead. (He is a humanitarian aid worker.) But he has great memories and friends from those places and periods, and knowing him I’m sure he’ll sign up to be a host rather than a guest as soon as he can.
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Welcome back! Get better soon!
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As I understand it from my time living in Germany 30 years ago, the aversion to tap water is a holdover from when water was piped in with lead pipes and really was unsafe to drink. Someone once said to me, “You drink SINK water?!” At the time I hated fizzy water. I was just there recently and finally learned to tolerate it; then suddently I was hooked.
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Welcome back! Looks like you had a awesome time. I am curious about the strikes you observed in France and Italy. Were they big and fierce like they were portrayed on TV here? Do you think the U.S. will have any similar situations arise here? Living in Las Vegas the battle between Harry Reid and Sharon Angle is quite fierce. It seems there is much discontent with the current government if an extremist like Angle has a chance of winning this election. Maybe I need to move to a more peaceful city like Portland
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@ Steven@hundredgoals.com – I think Eurail passes mainly makes sense if you are planning to travel large distances. Especially if you’re over 25, a single day/ride costs up to 40-50 €. It makes sense if you want to travel Berlin-Prague-Budapest-Rome (several long distances), but less so if you do Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, and even less if you do Brussels. Cologne, Frankfurt, Munchen etc,
So it depends on your travel behaviour – if you are a slow traveller, travelling many short distances each day, then it doesn’t make sense. If you are looking to focus on a couple of big cities that are far apart, then it may make sense. If however you plan each day of travelling in advance (which I don’t like as a way of travelling), there are often cheap option available on trains, and flights are also quite cheap on low cost carriers
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How is that Black SUV supposed to get out?
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Welcome back, J.D.!
I totally agree with you on the weirdness of going back home after having been gone for so long. I’ve spent some time traveling in Europe for work for 4-6 weeks at a time and even though I stay in apartments instead of hotels, it’s still really nice to get back home. North American apartments are much more spacious and comfortable than European ones!
You forgot to mention the frequent transit strikes in France! It’s mostly the regional (RER) trains, but the metro has been hit a bit as well this fall.
Also, as another commenter mentioned, in France, you can ask for “une carafe d’eau” and then they’ll bring you a large bottle of tap water and they’ll usually bring you further ones as well!
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Ah, they got you! In France, you have to specify that you want tap water (well, you can just say “une carafe”, a jug). Otherwise they “assume” you want bottled water, and make you pay.
As far as I know, that’s just really a way to get the tourists who don’t know.
(I see other people have mentioned it before. Oh well, let me confirm it, then.)
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To #17 (Debtheaven): I used to be a teacher, but no longer. I was able to take this long trip due to a combination of accumulated vacation time (I rarely take days off) and some mandatory unpaid leave that is part of my employer’s budget trouble.
The part of the strikes that we saw in France was energetic but non-violent. Many marchers/chanters and interruptions in transportation services that meant a LONG trip to the airport on our final morning. It was interesting to see the global recession from another country’s vantage point.
We did take a night train from Rome to Paris, with tickets for a 2-person cabin with sleeping berths. But other than that, we didn’t do long-distance train travel, just short trips.
It was a great trip!
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Welcome back! The guest posters did great, but they weren’t you:)
I subscribed to your other blog to read more about the trip. That picture you posted from Venice was outstanding!
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I would like to know more about the situation of banks in the USA, with interest rate at 0-0.25% as set the FED. I hope they decide to up this rate soon to eliminate the same effect that give the financial markets in such a huge crisis.
The situation of the banks from my country is still (in case of small and some middle banks) “nervous”.. Spanish Banks. They still are paying around 4% for deposits without vinculation (“new” cash, you know), while the oficial rate interest set by BCE (ECB) is 1%.
In other way, now a lot banks and new groups of savings banks (SIP’s) from Spain are focusing in the USA retail market for expand their mothel of retail banking and financial business in global.
PD. I just saw this weekend the film Wall Strett (2).. very poor in comparation with the ones form the 80′s.
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Sorry, JD, but you don’t pay “coperto” in a bar! It’d be crazy… Actually it’s crazy in a restaurant too.
Oh, maybe you’re talking about espresso: some bars make you pay a bit more if you have a cup at a table, but not all of them.
Tap water is GOOD almost everywhere in Italy. But people are silly and obsessively afraid of germs, so they buy bottled water for home use too.
I wish we had long, effective strikes too like in France…
Our trains suck, eew, did you sleep on them?!
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so glad you’re back!
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I am Italian in Rome. The water in Italy is drinkable and of excellent quality.
Unfortunately, there is a big speculation on the sale of water. The collection of signatures for the referendum was to have public water and non-privatized (not to mention the quality that already exists).
In Rome there are many public fountains where the drink, and do not understand why tourists buy water paying dearly.
The car parks in Italy (especially Rome, Florence, Naples, Milan, Palermo) are a real scandal. The police does not control and the educated citizen lives experiencing the arrogance of undisciplined drivers. Italy has a strong car culture is also due to poor quality of public transport.
Greetings from Rome.
Alessandro
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Kris thank you so much for your response!
I hadn’t realized you had moved on from teaching. Since I did things the other way around, I was a journalist and I’m now a teacher, I did not get how you could take so much time off from a teaching job!
What a shame that you were both sick in Paris, it is indeed a lousy way to end a trip!
I find my limit for travelling abroad generally vacillates between two and three weeks. Two weeks when we are on our own and we know nobody, three weeks when we are hooking up with friends and / or family. Our longest trip was four weeks with very little internet access, about seven years ago. We could not do without regular internet access at this point in our lives.
I hope you are both feeling better now, and again thank you for your response! You could have saved the hotel fees and just been sick here instead LOL. Not quite spitting distance from Versailles, but almost.
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For “hacking” train travel in Europe, I highly recommend this site: http://europetrainsguide.com/ I don’t mean to sound spammy but I’ve been frustrated before spending hours breaking down the cheapest transit options which this site does. It runs down how to get the cheapest deals in each country and settles the whole issue of when a rail pass is worth it and when it’s not (ex. not recommended for Italy) plus it gives step-by-step guides on how to buy from foreign language sites when that’s the cheapest option (like for France – the English language SNCF site is a tourist site which will often sell more expensive tickets).
There’s also a trick about TCV Tariff tickets if you’re planning on both Eastern and Western Europe which lets you buy tickets on any domestic network from Eastern Europe for cheaper (I didn’t try this myself but looks cool). In detail here: http://europetrainsguide.com/Advice/Western-Europe/Western-Europe-%E2%80%93-how-cheap-it-can-be.html
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JD-
Stores in the US *used* to be like that (ie: not multi-purpose).
Thats the growth of the supermarket here. My Mom grew up in Chicago in the 30s-40s and still talks all the time about how they had to go to different stores to get everything. I really wish it were still like that as convenient as supermarkets are.
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Alessandro – I was told water was safe to drink when I was in Italy, so we regularly refilled our own water bottles from the sink.
However, I think it’s crazy there were absolutely NO water fountains in the airports. I actually went to the bathroom to fill my water bottle, since I couldn’t find any water! Whether it was safe or not it tasted lots better than the stuff I get from my own tap here in Chicago. Or that I used to get in Tucson, Arizona.
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