This guest post from Mandy Walker is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success — or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes. Mandy writes the blog Since My Divorce, a collection of stories mostly from women about life after divorce — the challenges, the hardships, the accomplishments and the joys. She now realizes that her divorce was part of a much larger journey about learning to honor her feelings.
In January 2006, I sat in a board meeting for a non-profit health clinic and listened as one my fellow board members told us she was getting divorced after more than twenty years of marriage. “I’ve decided that if I have to support my husband for the rest of my life, I may as well be divorced and be happy,” she said.
For the next few weeks, her words reverberated in my head. I had been married for almost sixteen years. To the outside world, we could be the perfect couple:
- Beautiful home
- Nice neighborhood
- Two beautiful children
- Ski house
- Overseas vacations
- And so on
I’d taken a severance package from my corporate job in financial services a couple of years before and was taking some time off contemplating a second career as a journalist/writer. He was a teacher, but had been a stay-at-home dad for a few years while looking for something new.
From the inside however, it was struggle, a common story of two people who used to love each other who had grown apart. Until then, though, I couldn’t bring myself to consider divorce. No one in my family had been divorced, and I had no divorced friends. I had no role model. But I kept hearing my friend. I wanted to be happy too. What was holding me back?
I had been the primary breadwinner during our entre marriage. My husband had worked most of the time, but didn’t contribute to the household expenses. At some point many years ago, I got tired of reminding him to make his agreed payment, and so just let it go. Now it festered. If we divorced, that would mean giving half of all “our” assets to him. That could mean giving up on retiring early, giving up half the retirement nest egg, giving up the large house, giving up the no-budget lifestyle, and maybe even giving up on going to journalism school.
But still those words echoed — I just wanted to be happy.
Running the numbers
As the household bill-payer, I knew everything about our finances, so I put all our assets into a spreadsheet, estimated the current values, and what it would look split everything in half. I’ve used Quicken for many years, so I knew what our monthly expenses were, and from there I created a budget for myself — something I hadn’t had for many years. I compared that to what would be my half of the assets. I started to think that maybe this wasn’t so impossible after all.
No, I wouldn’t be able to keep the house. But I didn’t want the house — it was too big. My two children and I didn’t need 5,500 square feet and an acre of yard. I didn’t want the expense or responsibility of maintaining it. A smaller house in the same town would be better for us and would lower my mortgage expense. I didn’t want the ski house either. Those ski weekends had come to be work rather than leisure.
No, I wouldn’t be able to retire early, but if I was able to negotiate some additional funds in a settlement, I would be able to finish my Master’s degree and build a second career. It would allow me to work part time until our children were through high school, which I felt was important to their well-being (and was something I really wanted to do, having worked full-time even when they were infants). Yes, it would probably mean working until at least normal retirement age, but that didn’t even seem like a sacrifice.
The assets we had would certainly provide both of us with the wherewithal to cover expenses related to the children, but it would mean negotiating child-support payments each month. The thought of that produced a knot in the pit of my stomach. If I hadn’t been able to get my husband to make his agreed household contribution during our marriage, how would I deal with delayed and haphazard child support? I knew it would be a legal arrangement and there would be legal recourse but I’d come to realize I wasn’t good with conflict.
So again, I turned to Excel. I’m not sure what made me think of this, but I decided to project what the children’s expenses would be through the end of high school and college. I asked our financial adviser what I should assume for college expenses ($40,000 per year) and an inflation factor. Then I took the net present value of that large amount (less the value of their 529 College savings plans) and that was what I proposed to set aside in a trust to cover the children’s expenses.
Once I figured out how to protect the financial resources for the children, virtually all of the resistance and reluctance I’d felt to dividing the assets disappeared. Divorce indeed became a possibility.
According to my attorney, the trust was an unusual arrangement but there was provision for it under Colorado State law, and while there was inevitably some negotiating around the division of assets, my husband agreed with the concepts. So, how has it worked in practice?
How’s the children’s trust working?
I love the children’s trust. So far, it’s spared me what seems to be the typical child-support wrangling. My ex and I don’t discuss normal day-to-day expenses, and for non-routine expenses we generally see eye-to-eye. That’s pretty much the same approach to finances as during our marriage. I don’t mind that; it makes my life easy.
In practical terms, the bulk of the money is in mutual funds within a brokerage account. Day-to-day expenses are drawn from a checking account funded with periodic withdrawals from the brokerage account. I keep four to five months of expenses in a cash account within the brokerage account. That leaves enough flexibility to deal with unpredictable expense spikes so common with children.
The bad news is that because of the financial crisis, the trust is not likely to last until both children are through college. However, thanks to some extra cushioning, the trust fund will probably cover each child until they graduate high school — my daughter in 2011, my son in 2014. Their 529s will then kick in for college. Almost certainly, there won’t be enough. And while that’s not what I’d planned, I’ve come to embrace the idea that my kids will benefit from having some student loans.
Where am I now?
My first reaction to being divorced — in school and freelancing — was to cut back on absolutely everything and to agonize over purchases that weren’t clearly essential. Each month, I’d just draw from my brokerage account what I needed to cover what I had spent. You’d think that would be a great, care-free way of living, but I was paranoid my nest egg would run out before I had established my second career and an earnings stream. In many ways, I was being irrational.
What helped has been to establish a regular monthly income that comes from my brokerage account to my checking account. Again, I used my Quicken data to figure out a budget and the monthly amount. (Interestingly it’s right around $75,000 a year.) This has created certainty, much like getting a regular paycheck, and makes me feel comfortable. I can take my savings balance, divide it by the monthly amount, and figure out roughly how much longer I can support myself. I can still draw additional amounts for unforeseen expenses or splurges, but I do so being able to project the consequences.
While an adjustment, being on a fixed income is actually refreshing. I’m more mindful of my purchases, but don’t feel it’s a hardship. There’s so much I’ve been able to cut back on and not miss. The mail-order catalogs no longer fill the recycling bin, and my house is less cluttered. These days I use coupons at the grocery store, and I enjoy seeing how high I can get the percentage of savings. I’m more of a comparison shopper, too, and less impulsive. That makes me feel I’m actually a better decision maker now.
The financial crisis put a major dent in my savings, as well as the children’s trust. That, the loss of my health insurance once I graduated, and the difficulty of getting well-paying freelance work, motivated me to find part-time work. I found a great twenty-hour a week position at the nearby university. My financial adviser calls it my “tranquilizer” job. And yes, the benefits give me peace-of-mind, and the additional income helps to stretch out my back to work deadline.
I work in the mornings so I’m able to be home in the afternoons when my kids are done with school and ready for various after-school activities.
Looking to the future
Thanks to an unexpected small inheritance, my savings should last me another three years, at which time my son will be a high school senior. However, with my daughter off to college next year and my son likely driving himself, I’m thinking of returning to full-time work by January 2011. This is very appealing: It would leave me with a healthy emergency fund, it would give me the earnings to start paying off my mortgage faster, and I would likely still be able to retire by sixty-five.
Clearly I won’t be retiring early, but I have no regrets about that. What’s more important to me is being able to be at home in the afternoon when my children come home from school. And I’m happy. At times I’m euphoric. I can be walking to work and find myself smiling for no particular reason. I love my life now — and I couldn’t say that before.
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Interesting discussion. Like many others, I have a lot of trouble relating to the article’s author.
To make some sense of it, I connect this article to the recent “Your health is your greatest asset” article. It seems like we should consider our relationships an asset as well. Given that divorce is financially and emotionally draining, it would seem that putting enormous effort into protecting our relationship assets would have financial (and emotional) payoff as well.
I’m not just referring to marriage counseling, I’m thinking of the bigger picture: deciding who to marry in the first place, developing a united view of household finances, letting your partner know that you value their contribution (financial and otherwise), choosing friends who help you make healthy decisions, etc.
Of course, this isn’t true for everyone, and I apologize if my comment offends anyone. But it helps me get some value from the article.
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I wonder why they didn’t just get some marriage counseling and make changes to their lives to make it work out. Is it really that hard to do?
I can imagine how a huge house (and payment) and a ski house (and payment) would add quite a bit of stress to a marriage.
I would say that the kids are really being punished by this selfish behavior, but I have a feeling they are used to it.
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@28.
I was just breezing through the comments and I came across yours asking what the purpose of marriage is in modern life and asking why you need an official document expressing love and commitment. What better way to express love and commitment than through legal obligation? Marriage is like saying to someone, “I want to make sure you are taken care of and we need to work together as a team the rest of our lives.” Marriage is not just some sort of religious belief, but it is combining assets and creating household wealth. My only advice to people out there is to NEVER let someone live under your roof unless you know for sure you will marry very soon (like the date is actually set) AND that you know for sure what you want out of a partner. If you don’t it will cost you.
I invested my time, energy and some of my money into one of these “marriage is a stupid piece of paper” louses and it broke my heart when the truth came out. I am sorry, but I guess I am old fashioned. If you love someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them you MARRY them!
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Thanks for posting, Mandy. My parents divorced. It was ugly. But it was for the best.
I’m not sure why everyone is freaking out. I think perhaps Americans cling desperately to this vague idea of Family Values. That phrase always raises an instant alarm in me. It’s a crutch. To me, Family Values are YOUR family values, and you have to do what you think is best. I don’t understand why everyone is getting so upset — it is NOT their duty, nor their business, to be Public Defenders of Their Perception of Family Values.
This was a highly tailored post aimed at a PF blog. It was great. It did exactly what it should have done. You probably could have written 300 more pages on the real reasons for the divorce, but is that necessary? No. Maybe it was as simple as him not paying. I suspect it was more than that, though. Even if it was that simple, that break in trust is a good enough reason for me.
The truth is, we don’t know enough about your marriage to judge your divorce, so I really don’t understand what standing all these commentors have for doing so. This kind of attitude is a good reason why we’re going to lose talented writers who might enlighten us about their approach to tough PF subjects because they know they’re going to get judged so harshly. Cripes. Sorry you had to read through all this.
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@zach (90,91,95) & @94. The reason for the “discrepancy” you note is that those are before and after figures. She could afford the house UNTIL she had to split half the family assets. (Those “family” assets seem to have come entirely from her income.)
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I’m so happy that this has worked out for the writer. I had a similar experience with my first marriage (but without the kids), and enjoyed similar success and happiness. Sometimes the right answer to being told someone is getting divorced is, “Congratulations!”
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I agree with several points that have already been made:
- Why is it OK for a woman to not contribute financially to a family, but not OK for a man? If a man had complained that his stay-at-home or part-time working spouse didn’t pay her share, he would be skewered. The statement was made that the husband worked but didn’t contribute to household finances – it would be good to know exactly what he did, what he earned and what he did with the money if not pay bills. And furthermore, why they didn’t discuss a joint financial plan and budget very early in the marriage?
- Why were finances not combined for the household? This would have removed the issue of “he didn’t pay his share of the expenses.” I make more than twice what my husband does, but there is no mention of “your money” or “my money” – it is all OUR money. I do find it interesting that she combined all the assets and income only when she was ready to walk. Why not do that years earlier?
- It’s generally not for me to judge another’s marriage, but I will say this – if you haven’t been to counseling or otherwise made a real effort at making it work, I don’t think “we just grew apart” is a reason for divorce. Lots of people grow apart, but they realize they made a commitment for life and they put effort into getting back to a place where they are happy.
- I do commend anyone who puts actual pencil to paper when making a major life decision. While I may not necessarily agree with some of the things in this post, it is clear the author put effort into figuring out the financial realities.
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Not commenting anything on “being rich”, ex-husbnad’s life or divorce itself, just want to say I wish I had any clue how to go about it (divorce) financially 3 years ago. Even with havign a lawyer (albeit the cheapest agreed), I got so financially down – and, frankly, sos did he, though not as bad. Our relationship (whichever civil left) is whacked because of child support (which was agreed by me at 1/2 of calculated by state), nothing in decree is stated clearly, our house shortsaled 2 years later when he couldn’t pay anymore (and my name was never taken off), and so on. Many things wouldn’t fly with my ex, but at least I would have known what exists. Again, without any comments on emotional side (mine or Mandy’s).
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After reading through the comments, I do have something else to say…There is an ENORMOUS difference between a workign spouse who won’t contribute, and a stay at home spouse.
In my first marriage, my husband worked full time but contributed nothing to household expenses. There was definitely a feeling that he did not support me emotionally. Everything in his life was about him.
My current husband has voluntarily been out of the workforce for several periods during our marriage, including now. Although I am now the primary breadwinner, MrP makes it clear he supports me emotionally. He takes amazing care of our children, does errands, etc. Although he doesn’t like dogs at all, he now walks my dogs for me during the day. (When your canine-loathing spouse is willing to scoop poop for you, that’s evidence of love.)
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This is a very hard article in which to relate or obtain any useful knowledge. By editing it only to focus on financial aspects, and leaving out the feelings/love/lack of love, the writer comes off as cold on one of the most personal decisions ever. I understand that this is the fault of the directed approach.
I am also troubled because it feels as if one’s value in a marriage is each spouse’s balance sheet and devalues one’s effort if that spouse is a stay-at-home spouse or HH (house husband). Again, this is likely based on the directed attempt to focus only on the finances.
Finally, it is difficult as a reader to obtain anything out of this post because the writer had so many assets before the divorce that it is hard to even contemplate how she believed that she couldn’t afford to divorce. I don’t see where the struggle was in learning how to deal with divorce–if you have this kind of wealth, you simply turn to your financial advisors to do what they did in this case.
I wish the writer and her family well. I just wanted to comment that the direction given in how to write this type of article doesn’t seem to contribute to this type of blog, but instead takes the reader off of the topic onto more heated areas (like does the reader agree/disagree with the writer’s decision to divorce–in fact, even the positive comments are focused on this area and simply agree with the decision made to divorce)
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Wow, that really resonated with me: “I’ve decided that if I have to support my husband for the rest of my life, I may as well be divorced and be happy.” I, too, am realizing I am tired of being the only one who pays household expenses while my husband uses his paycheck for his own entertainment (boat, etc.). I did tell him this morning HE would now be responsible for buying his family’s Christmas gifts–I’m tired of the grief of doing all that for him and he sleeps on the couch.
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@105 tas: “The reason for the “discrepancy” you note is that those are before and after figures. She could afford the house UNTIL she had to split half the family assets. (Those “family” assets seem to have come entirely from her income.)”
I which is somewhat like saying “I could afford my lattes every day… until I sold my car and canceled every non-important bill.”
the logic of it simply doesn’t make sense: one cannot label a person a non-contributor and be in a worse financial situation without that non-contributor sucking up money.
Even splitting assets (read: already accumulated, in a safe place somewhere, something you don’t need to eat), she showed that she was quite wealthy, so I’m unclear about the point of this article as it relates to others… anything I come up with as an excuse just seems… not appropriate.
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Another thing about this is that people are criticizing Mandy for this sentiment she latched onto — that if she has to support her husband forever, might as well do it divorced and happy. And folks are saying “well of course, when you marry you agree to support your spouse forever”.
Well, it sounds like hubby wasn’t supporting his wife at all. Why are people saying he was a stay at home dad? She states clearly near the beginning that he was not. It sounds more like he was frittering his cash away. Or something… we can’t know. But people are getting all up in Mandy’s grill about role reversal and how she should be more considerate of the contributions of her husband, but it sounds like he wasn’t contributing anything!!
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Ive come late to this post, but its very disappointing. I have to disagree with JD with the “all things being equal” comment. Rarely in a marriage do both spouses make close to the same amount, and in many marriages only one spouse works, for good reason. I was an at home spouse, even when my children were not at home. That was a viable choice and it worked for bothy of us-it actually enabled him to make more money and work longer hours, not having to do his “share” of all the non working things. It sounds very much to me like he was considered a “second class citizen”
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thanks for your openness about your financial strategy. i knew part of your story, but i am impressed with your strategically planning your happiness.
i am amazed that people feel the need to comment on the validity of getting a divorce. sheesh. isn’t this blog about personal finance?
again, thanks for sharing.
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I’m upset by the judgmental attitude expressed in many of these comments. Can anyone really judge another person’s marriage from the outside? If it isn’t your relationship, you can’t possibly know all the complexities related to that marriage for the two people involved. Divorce can have a tremendous impact on the financial well-being of one or both parties and is a very relevant topic for GRS. Thanks J.D. for broaching this topic, and thank you Mandy for sharing your story.
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I agree completely with zach (112) and I had a hard time understanding the logic given too.
I’ve seen bums here in Poland and the faster the women dumped the leech, the better they were/are and can get on with their lives.
There is obviously something left out of the story. And it has nothing to do with whether or not we believe divorce in this case is right/wrong.
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I am really surprised at all the critical comments here. It sounds like she was not happy for a long time, metaphorically and fiscally pulling the weight, wanting to change how she worked, time she spent with her children but did not feel she could accomplish this within the marriage, and feared consequences of divorce (for example how could she expect child support after divorce if he did not contribute during the marriage?). She only proceeded with divorce when she found a creative way to take care of her children within a divorce. Obviously she has financial resources most of us don’t have. But I don’t think it was a case of yippee, I can afford to divorce my husband.
Both partners need to contribute to the marriage, whether it is financial, emotional, domestic, etc. Most people who have a non-working spouse, their spouse still contribute. I’m going to assume that was not the case in her marriage, judging from the fact for example even when he was working, did not contribute to the household. Regardless if the spouse is male or female, Why in God’s name should one spouse be required to make all the sacrifices?
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My guess is she could no longer afford the house because her assets were reduced with the divorce. The trust addressed the issue of child support, but the remaining assets would have been split. That likely did not leave her enough to keep the house when her income is from a draw on her brokerage account (would have drawn down too quickly and lost the principal).
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Read the article, people:
The husband WAS WORKING FULL TIME and not contributing to the household expenses (so, even if we assume that he contributed a reasonable amount of time running errands and with the kids, his available time to do so was as constrained as hers was).
She WAS TRANSITIONING INTO A LOWER PAYING CAREER and spending money to gain the skills to do so. They likely wouldn’t have been able to afford to keep that big house, the ski house, etc. even if they had stayed married, plus he was entitled to half of the assets (so, half of her emergency fund plus half of whatever equity had been built in both residences).
They went to THREE ROUNDS OF MARRIAGE COUNSELING prior to the divorce. It also sounds like the divorce was pretty amicable, since they basically agreed to invest a considerable portion of the assets into a trust for the children rather than keeping it themselves. We don’t know what he did with his half of whatever was left, but it looks like she used hers to fulfill her educational dreams and spend time with her children, so she sounds like a decent person to me.
It sounds like they were both reasonable people who tried hard to save their marriage and who made the best of it when they did split. Kudos!
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Good for you, Mandy, for having the resources to support your children and to successfully getting out of a situation where it sounds like your husband was not contributing. My rule is no romance without finance! (of course I only learned this after supporting a boyfriend for 4 years, so better late than never).
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I don’t think that this particular situation can be extended to the vast majority of divorce cases, in order to take advice about financial planning when divorce occurs and or is on the horizon. How many of us have ski homes, big houses, the ability to stop working (for years), “And so on”.
I also would have to agree with a lot of the replies left that if the genders were reversed more people would be crying foul.
How many wives refuse to work, or not contributed financially in marriages where the husband is the primary owner, should he just get a divorce?
And yes I realize that this story might not contain all the facts, but why then even mention any reasons for the divorce?
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Thank you Mandy for this story. Divorce is a hard topic that some people consider, and although you left a lot of the emotional stuff out, could tell you went through quite a time trying to decide what to do. I am in a similar situation, and although I don’t think I will end up at the same decision you made, I know how hard it can be. Thank you JD for posting this!
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@ 100 Nicole
I think I understand more clearly what it is that you find “insulting” – I do not think that it is inherently insulting for someone to fail to define themselves as “rich” – But it is insulting for someone who is very well off to act (and think) like they can relate their challenges to the financial issues & reality of people who are not rich.
Additionally this outlook impacting policy, taxation, etc. etc. based primarily on their high-earner perspective is an issue.
I have two thoughts about this: 1) makes perfect sense that it is a problem 2) that said, many (though not all) high earners were not always in that position, so in some ways should be able to have a reasonable point of reference for the other “99%”
In line with the articles you quoted, I think you would love NPR’s Marketplace Money from Oct. 22nd: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/10/22/mm-question-is-250000-rich/
I just find the whole concept of “what is rich” really interesting – I hope I didn’t offend you. FWIW, I don’t have an opinion on people “finding themselves” – to each their own as far as that is concerned.
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I read this post yesterday, and kind of scratched my head. It doesn’t belong here, it’s not the quality that I expect from GRS. It seems to be here merely to infuriate people and get people posting and stirring up drama and controversy.
I could pull apart the article and pin point areas I find in poor taste and ethically dubious and speak out as a child of divorced parents, but I think that’s been done already.
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@sam #62 actually, yes, J.D. DOES get to decide what people are allowed to say here. It’s his blog. He owns the content. If you don’t like it you have the option to not read. And actually it’s pretty clear you DIDN’T read.
I thought Mandy’s story was interesting BECAUSE it was so different from the usual divorce story. With useful information.
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I like how this post shows in a detailed way how to make finances a part of decision making in your life. Just like the posts about being an entrepeneur, quitting a job, etc., money has to be a part of that. I’d like to see some posts on the financial implications of having or not having children, and some posts on the implications of getting married vs. staying legally single. Also, some guest posts on financial issues for same sex couples who can’t get married would be great, too.
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I’m not surprised there was a lot of negativity involved since Mandy is relatively well off. There seems to be a stigma in the US nowadays that if you are relatively wealthy, you did not work hard to earn your money, and your problems are not worth listening to or learning from (#29,33,35,47, 52,62,65,72,88,91,95 and more). This is highly hypocritical since the “poor” complain the “rich” do the same thing.
I find it quite useful to read about people in all circumstances, whether I can relate or not if merely to gain an understanding of the different troubles people encounter. After all, isn’t the purpose of this blog to “Get Rich Slowly”? This posting happened to talk about some financial implications of a life changing event after the poster has gotten rich slowly (she is 50 after all, which is nearly 30 years in the workforce). While it’s a circumstance (divorce) I hope to never encounter, learning about some of the financial aspects (trust for children, etc) is enlightening as those were things I would not have thought of.
I would also like to say, thank you JD for editing out the vile comments of the internet trolls. Constructive and thought provoking criticism is great to read, it helps me to really consider other viewpoints. But the trollish judgmental negativity present on so much many of the open comment threads out there just make me stop reading them for all their vile drama. How is it constructive? How is it a learning experience to bash or marginalize someone’s story? It’s not, it’s close minded and reflects the dregs of societal behavior. So again, great blog, and great thought provoking post.
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I will assume that it wasn’t a loving marriage and there were considerable reasons for the divorce outside of money. Mandy doesn’t go into the details so I am not going to question if the divorce was a good idea or not.
I am curious how exactly they were supposed to be dividing their household finances. From the sounds of it Mandy was very highly compensated. She was in “senior management” for 20 years and talks of “significant bonus payments and deferred compensation”. They had money for a 5500 sq ft house, ski house, overseas vacations, etc. And her husband worked as a teacher and had been a stay at home dad for some time. It sounds as if the vast majority of the income came from Mandy. Was she expecting hubby to pay half the bills for their mcmansion on his meager teacher wages while she paid the other half on her high 6 figure salary? Or was she just wanting him to contribute *something* and he then ran off and spent any money he had on gambling and booze? Or is it somewhere in between? I don’t expect Mandy to answer this, but I do wonder.
From what I’m reading, Mandy was ‘rich’ by most any normal measure. You can’t be in the top few % points of income earners in the richest nation in the world and not be rich. People should be honest with themselves and recognize their affluence and how it sets them apart and makes their lives very different as a result. People need to know how good they have it and not take it for granted. For their own good and to keep from being inconsiderate to those around them.
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I agree with the sentiment that this blog post isn’t appropriate as-is. There might be a kernel of financial wisdom somewhere in there, but the focus definitely isn’t on the financial aspects of divorce to consider, and it is instead overshadowed by the situation around the divorce.
An example of an area that could be improved: several commenters expressed interest in more elaboration on a divorce trust settlement, which does sound unusual and would be interesting to learn more on. Not enough finances and too much emotion in the post as it currently is.
JD, I would be curious as to what your average reader’s age/financial status/etc are. I’ve been reading this blog for the past few years and I overall get the impression that the audience is young enough to not have the personal/third-hand experience of divorce to take Mandy’s statements as a matter of fact, as you stated you did. I’d guess your prime reading market is ~26-36, younger than the audience this might be more appropriate for, ~40s-50s+.
I think the reader’s story should either be more focused on financial considerations she approached when considering a divorce or not published at all. Even then, as Nicole and others have mentioned, as-is that aspect of the story as told is very hard to relate to, with ski houses and a $75k annual stipend from savings.
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First off, congratulations for coming to such a huge realization. A lot of people are miserable and either don’t know it, or know it and do nothing about it. You took action. You didn’t do it blindly. You planned it out accordingly. You took a HUGE risk. You made sacrifices. I commend you whole heartedly for your strength.
I’m glad you don’t mind waiting for retirement. I’m glad your kids are still your priority. It’s great you didn’t have too much pride to get a part time job.
This story is so rare, and even though I don’t know you, I’m just so glad that you took the initiative to make a change in your life to benefit you in such a positive way. I’ll be rooting for you!
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The comments are too personal and judgmental? Hellooo, it’s a blog. If you don’t want people to comment, don’t air your dirty laundry in public. Gotta take the bitter with the sweet.
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@MT (#130)
See, now that is constructive criticism. Thank you.
I especially like your question about the age of GRS readers. I don’t have any real way to know, though there are some third-party services that provide estimates. For example, Quantcast compiles statistics (I don’t know how) that indicate, for example, that GRS readers are generally well educated and more likely than normal to be childless. Readers generally fall into one of two categories: high income and low income. (Strange, huh?) Age looks pretty even among adults, though.
I love sharing a variety of opinions and viewpoints, but I do need to remember the audience!
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This post was disappointing. I know it’s supposed to be about personal finances, but it is impossible to ignore the divorce and its effect on a family. For Mandy to say that the deciding factor on whether or not to get a divorce was derived from her excel spreadsheets sounds cold and heartless even though I am sure that other factors contributed to her decision.
The last paragraph of her story says how happy and euphoric her life is now. All I want to know is how about her children and ex-husband? How happy and euphoric are they now that their family is no longer intact? The way this article is written it seems as though Mandy is selfishly only thinking of herself and her bank account.
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Mandy, you go, girl! What a terrific story! You didn’t succomb to the pressures of a crumbling marriage! You took a hard look at the situation and reassessed your finances. You weighed the pros and cons for you and your children of staying in and getting out. And, then you made the difficult decisions that had to be made in your own and your children’s best interests.
You wrote an encouraging story for any parent facing and impending divorce and you’ve done it with class. You haven’t beat up on the children’s father; nor have you claimed martyrdom on your part. You’ve simply made healthy, responsible, mature choices in a less-than-ideal situation.
BRAVO to you! I’ll be happy to pass your blog post along as an example of what is possible when faced with unwanted choices!
So happy that Beth H. referred me to this post! And, thanks for sharing your journey with us!
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@ J.D. #133 — That’s my favorite post so far in this thread: showing the estimates of GRS readers in age, income, etc. Ha!
Regarding the original post, I think the criticisms as well as the defenses are somewhat valid. This isn’t “Get Divorced Quickly,” it’s “Get Rich Slowly.” If all I had to do to achieve my financial goals was to sell a ski house, mansion, or cancel a few overseas vacations, that’s not that difficult. Pretty much right out of the gate, the original poster came off as out of touch with the audience.
I also find it telling that the “cost of the divorce,” “cost of setting up the trust,” including the attorneys, etc., was not even really acknowledged. For a lot of people, just the attorney cost, cost of setting up the trust, and the cost of dividing up the assets (selling a home at a loss, etc.) is a huge problem in divorce. People don’t realize how costly divorce can be (as a one-time transaction and also after-the-fact).
The minor comment about insurance coverage also was a little bit flippant. Some people struggle to get adequate insurance coverage and that is a serious benefit to marriage that may not be reflected in Excel. There are lots of things that married people do for one another and that have a financial impact that are not always reflected in Excel.
I don’t have a problem with the original poster or her decisions, but it seemed like there were a lot of assets available and that the financial/logistical side were pretty easy. Living on a 75K bank account budget and letting the kids ride out the trust fund does not sound that rough.
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I’m coming late to this story, it seems, but I will add a few things:
1. My parents should have gotten divorced 20 years. I still wish they would.
2. Finances are a BIG reason they won’t get a divorce.
3. Even those who are firmly in the middle class have assets to divide, and dividing that can be a headache.
4. I think there should definitely be an article about stay-at-home spouses, part-time spouses, male/female stay-at-home parents and money. I have seen this played out in a variety of ways.
- a friend whose husband was called a “stay-at-home dad” but who really was an extremely clinically depressed, semi-violent individual who used his “stay-at-home” status to avoid work and addressing his mental illness;
- a friend who made more than her husband and planned to finance his return to another country via her (their) savings, only to have him bail 6 weeks before their formal wedding ceremony (they’d been officially married 2 years before) and run off with another woman. His reason? My friend made more money than him, and he hated it.
- a friend whose husband stays at home with twin 18-month-old boys, but whose arrangement has been a happy one and seems to be working out well.
This is a HUGE issue today. Never before has there been such animosity, pride, humiliation, happiness surrounding who stays home and who doesn’t. I think it would be a great subject to address.
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Interesting article and approach. BUT, it does sound like it wasn’t a huge struggle financially for her to make the transition. Given the focus of this blog, it seems that another POV from someone going through divorce and actually struggled more financially would be good.
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@136 Lincoln. You’re missing part of it. All you have to do to achieve your goals is work hard for 30 years, seemingly without equal partnership from your spouse (and regardless of disparity in income, I see lack of any financial contribution despite working as a hostile act), save a very significant part of your income (what this blog is all about, right?) and THEN sell your homes, etc. It’s not like the ski house fairy left Mandy a chalet key under her pillow.
It might not seem to be a difficult choice to you, but for someone who has spent 30 years building a certain kind of life it is difficult to give up all that you have achieved. I actually applaund Mandy for understanding that while these luxuries are nice, they cannot create happiness. I know many who are not that enlightened.
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There are a few things in this article that I can’t quite wrap my head around. First, like Zach has mentioned, the math just doesn’t work. If her husband was not contributing toward the expenses, then she should’ve been at worst exactly where she was before the divorce. If I had a no-good layabout friend mooching off me, paying nothing for rent, utilities or food, and then I kicked him out, it is impossible that such a change would be anything but positive. So either she is exaggerating about his lack of contribution or she is really bad at math. Otherwise, there should’ve been no question whether she could “afford” the divorce. If an asset generates no income and may or may not incur costs, getting rid of that asset cannot be anything but positive on the bottom line.
Second, she said: “If I hadn’t been able to get my husband to make his agreed household contribution during our marriage, how would I deal with delayed and haphazard child support?”
She was the primary breadwinner throughout the marriage, she earned considerably more than he did, why would he have to make child support payments at all? Is it just because he’s the man? While that may be true, it doesn’t make it any less sad.
Finally, I just find it comical when she says “No, I wouldn’t be able to retire early,” then goes on to talk about how she quit her job, lived off savings while she went back to school, and planned to work part time. What does she think retirement is? She is retired right now! The fact she is taking her retirement in stages doesn’t change the fact she is spending time not working and living off savings before 65. That is the definition of early retirement.
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I love GRS, but I can’t relate to this article at all.
In a blog that typically covers topics like growing your own vegetables to save money and stories of couples working together to pay down debt, the story of a woman who wasted her extraordinary wealth on a huge home, a ski home, lavish vacations, and other outward signs of wealth and then was *genuinely concerned* about whether she could make it on her own is really out of character. It’s no surprise to me that it drew so much ire from readers. The author comes off as a rich brat more focused on flashing her wealth instead of nurturing her partnership with her husband. Congratulations to her husband – he’s much better off without her!
Divorce stories are fine, and there are plenty of divorcees with *real* problems GRS could feature instead!
-MJG
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#140 Aleks, he’d have to make child support payments because he’s the non-custodial parent and is obligated to provide support for his children. The support is based on a percentage of his income. If she were the noncustodial parent, she’d be making child support payments based on a percentage of her income.
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I think much of the backlash expressed against Mandy and her story comes from anger and irritation that this article was penned by a wealthy person. Given the fact that many Americans are feeling pain and angst in a tough economy, there is little sympathy from a financial standpoint for someone who is able to live off a passive income of $75,000 and also separately fund her children’s support in the form of a trust fund.
Perhaps Mandy’s story wouldn’t have raised so many hackles when the economy was roaring a few years ago. But in today’s recession, the context is much different. There is also widespread rancor at the high levels of executive compensation relative to the salaries of the average worker. So the article unintentionally comes across as insensitive to the harsher realities faced by the majority of families.
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“”"To the outside world, we could be the perfect couple:
* Two beautiful children
* Beautiful home
* Nice neighborhood
* Ski house
* Overseas vacations
* And so on”"”
Not really.
Material possessions never equate to happiness. People that care so much about how they appear to others are usually miserable.
Just saying.
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When I started reading the comments, I wondered if people had read the same post as I had. It just goes to show what a difference perspective can make.
Divorce is an emotional subject and I appreciate Mandy taking the emotion out of her post and focussing on the financial aspects of the subject. (Although I suspect the reader comments may have been different if there had been more emotion in the article).
The trust fund for the children sounds like an excellent way to avoid disputes regarding child support and I am surprised that this is the first time I have heard of such a thing.
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#143 Michela says: “So the article unintentionally comes across as insensitive to the harsher realities faced by the majority of families.”
I don’t think that is the case at all. However,
if she had stuck to:
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Quicken: how it helped her to come up with hard numbers
Excel: (I don’t really see why you need Excel unless it it to export data from Quicken into – but she didn’t say that and most people wouldn’t know how anyway)
The Trust: and how (in her view) it helped her get money from her husband as advance child support so she would not have to later
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the comments seen as criticism would not have been made.
None of the stuff about what most of us see as her wealth was necessary to those points. Neither was her comment that her husband wasn’t living up to his financial obligations during the marriage – especially since the information she did give about him was sketchy. I’d like to hear from him about why he didn’t keep the kids and collect child support from her. That might be a better article here.
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The post could have been useful enough simply explaining how to set up these divorce trust arrangements. Sounds interesting. As a child of divorce, I know any method to cut down on the fighting about various payments would have been very welcome and would provide help to lots of people.
The you-go-girl-eat-pray-love-emotional-journey stuff is always pretty one-sided. I hate reading things like that because the one thing I keep thinking about is the other person’s version of the story (or the childrens version). As a child, I got to hear my parents versions of the story all the time, as they told it to me, and others. And believe me, they were extremely different stories.
I think the author perhaps should have considered separating the emotional issues from the financial (yes, that might be difficult, but that’s targeted writing). Two different subjects for two different forums. And then, within the financial issues, weed out things that aren’t appropriate for this audience, i.e., ski chalets, etc. Know your audience and make it relevant. As written, this post sounded like it would be more at home in a special ladies-only edition of Forbes, sandwiched between Rolex and Mercedes ads.
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@146 As I mentioned before, her wealth IS necessary to set up a trust. The reason that most people have child support payments is because there is no money to set up the net present value of those payments as a lump sum. That is a LOT of money. Most people cannot do that upon a divorce because they do not have that kind of assets.
It is great to have that flexibility. But it is not usual. I do not begrudge her for being rich, most of us want to be rich and she did work for it. But she should not say she wasn’t rich.
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Like comment #13, I can’t help but think if this was a rich guy deciding to divorce his stay-at-home wife after 20+ years of marriage he’d be catching hell in these comments.
It sounds like neither parent was working for the last few years prior to divorce, just because she had the higher income previously, she gets a pass now?
Not sure why but this line particularly bothered me: “If we divorced, that would mean giving half of all “our” assets to him.” The OUR in quotes really seems like a shot at your husband to me. Like it is YOUR money, even though it was earned while married. That’s what you signed up for when you said “I Do”, I guarantee if it was the husband wanting the divorce you’d be demanding your 1/2 of the assets.
My last comment is about the kids looming college expenses – why assume they will have to take out loans? Why not encourage them to work while going to school or seek out scholarships?
Glad to hear you are happy now, but this story was hard to relate to.
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As someone in the inner circle of a person that really should get divorced, I found this post refreshing. The OP recognized that it was over and the best for everyone was divorce and the trust (while not in most people’s finacial grasp)was a good way to good and an interesting way to meet everyone’s needs.
I am personally tired of hearing complaints that afformentioned friend “can’t afford to get divorced” while watching her mismanage her current income.
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