Reader Story: Since My Divorce

Divorce sucks, and it’s my impression that it would have taken the writer less effort to work on her marriage than to sort out her post-divorce life. Then again, she’s making money from her divorce (as a journalist/blogger–see her website) so it serves her ends to paint it as a desirable thing to do. Much like divorce attorneys.

She mentions the husband didn’t contribute to the household expenses– so where did his money go to? The ski house? The vacations? Strippers? A crack habit? Retirement? We don’t know. Seems to be an unfair portrayal. Money has to go somewhere. DId he have a gambling problem he refused to address? Did he pay for his mother’s nursing home? Here’s the case of a couple who would rather split than work on setting their financial goals together.

Then there’s the stupid notion that one marries for “love”. Marriage is an economic enterprise to run a household and raise children. It requires a strong emotional bond, but it’s not a perpetual honeymoon. The love you have for your family is not the temporary hot “love” you have for your teenage crush, yet people with a middle-age crisis keep chasing the ghost of “romantic love” as if it alone were enough of a foundation to build a life on. It is not. Why are so many homes wrecked by fools in pursuit of mirages?

Nevertheless, sometimes things are awful (abuse, insanity, irreconcilable differences that were initially obscured by “love” aka hormones), and at times divorces must happen. I didn’t get that sense from this article. It was more like “let’s see if I can throw this guy out of the boat”. How she coped, blah blah blah, does not interest me– I’m not interested in the lives of the self-absorbed.

@Karen in Minn– I agree with you 100%, divorce happens and it leaves a trail of financial devastation in most cases, and it’s good to discuss how to deal with money when it happens. I just didn’t appreciate the point of view of this particular writer.

I have an acquaintance who was unexpectedly dumped by her husband for a young floozie he met on the internet. He quit his job, took some savings, left the country, and spent 4 months traveling with his new fling. He left his wife and kid the house, but not the means to pay for it, much less when she had an emergency with the roof. Luckily she’s fully employed but it was a stressful time. Now he has to contribute to various expenses related to their son, and last I heard no longer has the means to do it.

How is she managing? How much money is going to the lawyers? What changes has she had to make?

That’s the kind of story I’d like to hear about, not “I’m a yuppie who figured out the numbers to throw Mr. Mom overboard”.

@JD – I appreciate your comments; if that’s the case, I think she did a poor job of defining the causes of her divorce. “We had a ski house and my husband worked never contributed any household expenses”. He “stayed at home looking for something new”. Uh??? Something does not compute. Did he suffer from depression? Did they look for treatment? Did they exhaust all options? “I did not love him anymore” is a pretty flaky explanation for such a heavy subject–she’s not breaking up with her boyfriend, she’s wrecking her family– if so, what is the higher goal worth this kind of trauma?

I know that it sounds like asking for TMI, but the article could benefit from either a) presenting the full argument for the divorce, or b) skipping the finger-pointing and gory details altogether, and simply say “I had to get a divorce” (let the reader guess), and go straight at how she dealt with the financials.

The problem with the half-baked explanation is that it puts both her and her and her ex in a very bad light, and I think that’s where the reader’s reactions are coming from. Since a blog post can’t be a book, the “unexplained” option with 100% focus on the money would probably have been best for this blog.

J.D. and Mandy, “Illegitimi non carborundum.” It’s not whether you agree with the story, or you would have done it that way — it’s Mandy’s story, and she has the right to tell it!

There is a huge difference between a partner who does not contribute to the marriage, whether financially, physically or emotionally — and a partner that cannot at any set time. DH has had a few periods of terrible sickness, during which he wasn’t working — and wasn’t contributing much of anything else, for that matter.

Should I have kicked him out? Walked away myself? I meant it when I said those vows — BUT SO DID DH. He felt terrible that he wasn’t contributing, and said so, many times. He also thanked me for picking up the slack, and tried hard to make it up to me when he started feeling better.
I’ve worked ‘just’ as a housewife (which is a crock, as SAH people know — you work your tail off). But much of the time, I’ve also had my own business, as well. In any given month, I may make more than DH — but he has consistently earned more than me over the years.

Despite the tone, in many ways, this post is less about money than it is about treating a marriage as a working partnership.
In a good marriage, you learn to adapt. Sometimes you’re the one to do the lion’s share of a chore — sometimes you have the flu, or have to take Jess to the game, and he picks up, instead. Marriage is give and take, based on trust and commitment. Oh yes, and love, too!

And if you don’t have that, it can, instead, be a very lonely and empty place. Thanks, Mandy for telling your story.

@jim # 158 and @JD #154

JD, I think Jim is right about that. The frugality seems to have stopped at some point. She can do whatever she wants with her financial resources, but 5500 sq ft. home and 75K yearly budget is not “frugal.” Isn’t one of the GRS tenets, “you can have anything but you can’t have everything?” The OP actually said she pretty much had everything.

Also, why is she so concerned about retirement if she has been working for 30+ years and “has always maxed out retirement” per JD in #154? That’s a lot of tax-deferred retirement earnings, not even counting the other assets (ski house, mansion, etc.).

Finally, to JD, divorce can be really financially devastating to some people. If you are going to have posts like this, how about a few posts with different perspectives and include some stories where it was actually financially challenging/devastating?

Also, I have known some people that got divorced and were fine for 5 or 10 years, but then went into a downward spiral because they didn’t have a second income when they lost a job or got sick. How is the ex-husband faring after the divorce? Is he living in a van down by the river?

Wow, I wonder what would have been if the same effort of calculating the numbers would have been spent on working on the marriage and even attending counseling. Hmmmm…one never knows.

#161 Jana,

I think a major financial part of the article was to point out that when one uses a program like Quicken consistently there is very little effort involved in calculating the numbers. Still, perhaps some consistency in tending a relationship would not be much more effort.

JD & Mandy, further to your post 154, I think a lack of emotion in talking about the divorce while still disclosing some personal details has rubbed some people the wrong way. Personally, I liked the matter of fact tone and the financial focus but clearly others did not.
The ‘I just want to be happy’ statement is simplistic – I am certain that your divorce was a lot more complex than that. But people don’t want to hear about happy divorces – even if you don’t miss the man, you are expected to still mourn for the marriage. To be fair, you probably did and the details belong on your blog, not a personal finance blog.
I also think that some posters have not read the article carefully – for example, comments about a SAHD, when you clearly stated that you have both been in work and out of work during the course of your marriage.
But still, I found it well written and interesting. Just wish I hadn’t read the comments!

JD, you should stop commenting on this post, you’re getting into Trent territory here…everything you say makes it worse. This lady did well for herself which is commendable. But calling her frugal is a huge stretch – a 4 person family needs a 5500 sq ft house, ski house, “and so on”? I wonder if working all those years as an exec cost this woman her family?

A $75k yearly “allowance” works out to about $2 mil nest egg assuming 4% SWR. That puts her in the top 5% of households in the US.

@Kevin M, I am pretty sure that she is not living off the interest on a nest egg, she is drawing exclusively on principle both for her own yearly “allowance” and the children’s trust. She’s pretty much said once the money’s gone, it’s gone – and while she did max out her retirement accounts as well, she’s not going to be able to draw on those for 15 more years so she will have to go back to work full time at some point.

So yes, she’s still really well off, but not at all what people are projecting.

@Jon, #168, are you really saying that if the situations had been reversed we would have been all about a woman who worked during the vast majority of the marriage but kept her money for herself and lived off her husband’s high-paying career?

Yes. Because nothing is more important than liberating women from the evil patriarchy that has oppressed women for all of civilization.

#173 – Jon, the irony in that statement is dumbfounding.

Michelle and all women on this board, I suggest you inform yourself and read this post:

The real truth of feminism

Michelle, isn’t it ironic that this woman was the primary breadwinner in her marriage? Isn’t that what the modern women wants: equality and then some? So she complains about her husband not contributing enough money (i.e. resources in these modern times) to household expenses. YET, men have uncomplainingly been doing this since the earliest pre-civilization ages. So now that the roles are reversed, she had the power, the job, the money, the house, the vacation house, the kids and SHE’S complaining?

Shouldn’t she be happy that she’s the modern grrrll pwr woman who has everything and that man is finally in his place after thousands of years of misogny? Isn’t this what the modern woman wants?

THAT is irony. We women have what we want, men have the lower status roles that women used to be in, yet you are basically still complaining about the man not living up to his role. Oh. My. Gawd.

I suggest you read my link with some humility and introspection.

WOW, I wonder what would have been the reaction here if the writer was a male and he said
““I’ve decided that if I have to support my wife for the rest of my life, I may as well be divorced and be happy,”

Emasculation is a choice? That’s like saying a woman chooses to be in a relationship with domestic violence. BS. Emasculation isn’t a choice but the current social paradigm. What kind of men are featured in movies, television shows, and the omnipresent media? Bumbling, awkward, unconfident men who are usually saved in a harrowing situation by the woman who has all the smarts, savvy, and confidence to handle the situation.

Perhaps, the post I linked to overgeneralized things a liiitttle bit, but anyone who says there isn’t any truth to it, well, they’ve got the rationalization hamster spinning around in their heads looking for ways around it.

I don’t deny a woman’s or man’s “place” in society at all. I never even said that a woman “belongs in the home and that’s it!”. Yet you assumed I did when you said that women “ALWAYS worked outside the home”. Both have extremely important contributions to the family unit that they are naturally attuned to. Gender is not only genitalia but hard-wired as well.

It sounds to me like the real problem is that neither gender is willing to be human, and thus fallible. Many people, of both genders, are bumbling, awkward, and unconfident. Many people, of both genders, are charming, competent, and confident. I watch a lot of TV and don’t think portrayals of either gender are skewed completely one way or the other. For every Urkel there is an Ugly Betty. And I also don’t know anyone whose self-perception is tied to the portrayal of their gender on television shows.

Considering how overpopulated the world is, perhaps fewer families having children (and those that do, having fewer children) isn’t such a bad form of social engineering.

@ 180 Honey- Now THAT’S interesting material for a personal finance blog: personal finance from great, great grandparents. (Economics and budgeting in the 1800′s).

Got any links or references?

I just read this post because of the tweet leading to the post on comment policy. I just read all the comments.

I’m sure no one knows why Mandy really divorced her husband. I am sure there is a lot more to it. There ARE a lot of married people who have a sort of mid-life crisis and throw away their marriages, but we can’t really jump to that conclusion here.

Like others, I think there is a lot missing and something that doesn’t add-up, even strictly from the financial standpoint. I have been in both positions in relationships. I have been a “non-contributor” as well as the one paying for everything. When I was a “non-contributor” what that really meant was that I either did not value spending on the same OPTIONAL things or I simply could not afford to. Sometimes it was an agreement/arrangement. For example, maybe I agreed to pay for the dinners out or furniture or weekend vacation or whatever it happened to be at the time, but my GF/wife understood that meant she would have to pay the electric bill or the car payment on her own. At other times I have been married and paid all the living expenses myself. In fact, when my wife did work, it cost ME more. Because I still paid all the bills and then had to pay for her work clothes, makeup, transportation,etc. Then when she got a paycheck she certainly didn’t want to use it to pay the gas bill or food or something. She needed some girly thing or entertainment. I suspect this sort of thing happens a lot. I saw an earlier comment about a wife’s net earnings going to pantyhose- not far from the truth in a lot of cases. Yet, there is not a lot of complaining about that double-standard. When the low earning husband/BF does that ( he’s probably not spending it on makeup but maybe he likes video games or comics or music or whatever), he’s a deadbeat. If I CHOSE to live a lifestyle that I knew my spouse could not reasonably contribute 50% toward, that’s my choice. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t contribute. Again, I know nothing about the ex-husband. However, I really suspect he did contribute in ways that may have been too easy to dismiss for someone with a high income who does not make a big deal out of expenses a lot of people can’t afford. Maybe he paid for “small” daily expenses that add up. Maybe he had other issues. Or maybe he bought “stuff” for himself the way that most low-earning or non-earning wives do.

I also must respectfully disagree with J.D. in comment # 154. One of the reasons I really LIKE this blog is I feel like J.D. tends to be pretty “balanced” when it comes to money/life and between cutting spending as well as increasing earnings. It’s never been one of these super extreme judgmental frugality personal finance blogs. There are a lot of those out there. That said, this blog has always been written by a middle-class guy for a middle-class audience. At least that’s how I’ve perceived it. If I’m not wrong J.D. has mentioned his regular job income was around $40,000. I have nothing at all against high earners, even those with vacation homes and paid staff. However when I think of “frugal” I don’t think of ski homes, 5500 Sqft primary residence, the expectation of $40k per year college, and so on. And while the “GRS Way” probably can include high earners with vacation homes- provided they spend less than they earn and contribute to retirement accounts, it is at the very least not relatable at all for most people. I doubt Mandy intended to, but when she said her income seemed normal for executives in managment, she pretty much said she doesn’t make an unusual salary- for a rich person. Most people no matter how well-educated, hardworking, and/or naturally bright will ever have the opportunity to earn what a low paid executive makes. I think most people can relate to this about as well as a Major League Baseball player who only makes $400,000 as a rookie. He’s not making Alex Rodriguez money, but he’s getting paid. I think most of us can relate more to the “GRS way” as getting rich slowly with a middle-class income, owning 1 house, saving where it makes sense, maximizing investments and income the best we can. A big reason we get rich SLOW is because we don’t have huge incomes. So we have to do it over time.

I approve of this reader story, because frankly there are too many people out there stuck in miserable relationships that think they can’t get out because of the money. It’s heartening to hear that someone who *does* have money can feel just as trapped.
(I thought it was interesting, too, as a way of handling child support from a potential deadbeat. In particular, for parent with less in the bank but with children and a potentially deadbeat co-parent, that can make a lot of difference.)

This post sounds like a summary of my parents divorce. And from that perspective I would like to comment. Just because the dad stayed at home with the kids and made less than the mom doesn’t mean he wasn’t contributing financially. Sure money didn’t change hands. But there have been plenty of studies that quantify the value of a stay-at-home parent. And its significant. And I have to say, that being the primary bread-winner does not entitle the mom to primary custody of the kids. I think its selfish and a little cruel. The kids most likely have a much closer relationship to the dad than the mom. And taking them away from the dad, especially in a timultuous situation like a divorce, is not in the kids best interest.

Also, it sounds a little like a mid-life crisis to me. This woman spent her entire adult life chasing the American dream. Accumulating wealth in various forms, and keeping pace with the Jones’. She suddenly realizes she still isn’t happy despite what she has but hasn’t fully made the connection that money won’t fix it. She tries to hide money away from her husband in the form of a trust for her kids. She doesn’t want to share half of her wealth with her husband because she doesn’t think he deserves it. Let me say this: Do you think the husband would have approached his career the same way had he not been married with kids? He made a sacrifice in the form of his career so that his kids could be better cared for and so his wife could continue her desired career path. I think its criminal to deny him his fair share just because his yearly income was smaller than the wife’s. And now the husband’s earning potential is handicapped by the fact that he hasn’t been able to advance his career in the same way his wife did. It takes a lot of trust and faith in your partner to do what the husband did. And now it’s biting him in the butt.

She also decided to change careers. So clearly multiple aspects of the wife’s life were contributing to her unhappiness. If it had been me, I would have made the career change first to see if that was enough to make me happy before persuing a divorce. I am not against all divorces, but this one is particularly disturbing to me. What makes this worse to me is that it seemed like she made the decision without talking to him about it at all. Did he even see it coming? Maybe he could have made a change.

I just got divorced in January 2010 with the same mindset as you, with that nagging voice in the back of my head saying “you could be happy ya know” so here it is, 11 months later. My ex-husband and I are in constant communication. As a matter a fact, it took us splitting up to learn how to communicate with each other. Now we are even closer since we figured out communications hang-ups and we talk for hours completely intrigued by what the other is saying.

BUT – Ya, you knew there was a but coming. After we divorced I moved back to Colorado (from Georgia where I lived with my husband) where I was born and raised. The other fact we learned from the divorce is where our priorities are, and how we took so much for granted. We figured out what was important to us, and realized, we were each others top priorities as distance often brings about longing. Than we started to question if we should have gotten divorced at all, and there is an easy answer for that. We both feel we made a mistake, and there is still 2,000 miles between us.

I bought a house when I moved back to Colorado so I’m financially grounded here in Colorado. His job grounds him in Georgia (doesn’t want to quit, jobs are too hard to find). I think we jumped the gun on the divorce since our relationship has never been better than it is right now. I think, at least in my situation, we should have done a trial separation (or legal separation) and marriage counseling instead of a divorce. We were running on emotion when we made that decision, not logic, and it’s something that’s been a life lesson.