Last Sunday’s reader story caused quite a stir. While most readers were supportive of Mandy and her decision, some were not. Many folks raised valid concerns over her guest post, its relevancy at GRS, and my editing of it. I’ve taken those concerns to heart and will consider them in the future.
However, a small handful of commenters went too far. A few people took it upon themselves to make assumptions about Mandy and her marriage, and to leave rude comments. As I’ve made very clear in the past (and at the bottom of every reader story), rude comments on reader stories will not be tolerated. I delete them out of hand, and I feel no remorse for doing so.
There are certain things I don’t allow at GRS. You can criticize me and my guest posters all you want, but I’m not going to let you do it in a nasty manner, and I’m not going to let you spread misinformation and hysteria at Get Rich Slowly. If you leave a comment and it doesn’t appear, it’s not because I’m trying to squelch your opinion. Either the comment is stuck in the spam filter (in which case I’ll rescue it when I notice it), or you’ve crossed the line from constructive criticism to personal attack.
How do you tell the difference? Here are a couple of examples. This comment is critical, but it’s constructive. It’s perfectly fine:
This is a really poor story to post on Get Rich Slowly. There are so many financial holes, things apparently left out, and personal justifications and excuses by the writer that I can’t take a single thing from this to apply to my life.
[...]
Again, I don’t know what the purpose was in this post other than to show that a full financial analysis should be done to justify a divorce. Sorry to say it, JD, but poor choice of posts. I understand your motive in the Reader Story weekly posts, but they are not consistent with your blog and maybe should be dropped.
In this case, the commenter isn’t being emotional, and he’s not attacking anyone. He states his argument and provides constructive feedback. This is a Good Thing, and demonstrates that even people who disagree can have a polite discussion.
This comment, on the other hand, is way out of line, and will never see the light of day at Get Rich Slowly (well, except as an example of what not to do):
He’s probably better off without this callous bitch. Too bad she has children.
Last week, I deleted several such comments, which made a couple of folks angry. Tough beans. These deletions should have come as no surprise since I’ve provided ample warning that this sort of thing is unacceptable on reader stories. (And you know what? I’d really rather not see these sorts of comments on other posts, either. If you want to give this kind of feedback, send me a private e-mail instead of posting it in public.)
Here at Get Rich Slowly, my goal is to foster smart and civil conversations about money — even when we disagree with each other. If that sounds good to you, then please hang around. If this bothers you, then maybe we’re not a good fit. There are other sites you can read if you want to get your hate on.
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People who have nothing better to do than leave comments such as that drive me crazy! It’s okay to voice your opinion. You have a freedom of speech. However, there is a such thing as consequences for ones actions.
For example, I can tell my boss that I disagreed with something that he did. But if I call him a stupid, bald-headed man who can’t make any decision right, I might find myself on the unemployment list.
Is there a way to ban such commenters by their email address? That sure would be nice.
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I thought that story was perfectly appropriate. Money is complex and decisions about what we do with our money is not always cut and dry.
And thanks for keeping the trolls out.
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Well said J.D. I had a feeling last weeks reader post would evoke strong feelings from lots of people. I, personally, appreciate your request for respectful commenting. Let the haters go over to Yahoo or Fox Sports.
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Thank you for clarifying what the standards are for commenting. Just telling people to “be nice” was not clear enough. I took it to mean than any negative comments would be deleted, even if they were expressed politely. I’m glad to see that is not the case.
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I agree. You have a classy blog. As you say, there are other sites to post meaness. God, Mother Theresa and Ghandi could conspire to write a post, and there still would be nasty commenters.
As a commenter, imagine you are respoding to your mom. People have feelings. That is why I do not allow comments on my blog.
Btw, one of the things I noticed about commenters, is that often these mean comments are ignored. That is a good thing.
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Good job making GRS a troll-free zone. Being able to disagree without being disagreeable is a sign of a well-developed mind.
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I think you are completely right. Keeping the discussion clean encourages the commenters to act in kind – and so does not doing it. So thanks for weeding out the bad ones.
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Good job JD. This is the best policy. Personal attacks add nothing to the conversation.
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And this is precisely why your blog is my favourite PF blog, hands-down. I hate the trolling and insults that fly on so many other blogs by people who seem to have nothing better to do than insult people they don’t know, over topics they know little about. I dont understand why people choose to embarrass themselves that way.
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I think part of the reason was that she as a writer needed to clear up some things, and a lot of readers seemed confused like she divorced on a whim. I liked her story but like other readers yes there was some vagueness to it.
Anyway, this is why I like your blog, you allow constructive criticism even if people don’t agree. I agree that rude/hateful comments are different from constructive criticism.
One thing about the internet that I hate is just because people are hiding behind their ISP they think they have a reason to be rude. I don’t go to many forums and the ones that I do go to I can count on just one hand.
I used to go to this forum where the moderators wouldn’t reprimand a rude poster and he was obviously rude to everyone but he was allowed to insult people. I left that forum pretty soon.
So thanks for taking a stand, I appreciate that.
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well done JD, that was the right thing to do.
And after all, this is *your* blog, your site. You can moderate all you want – and if people don’t behave with their comments, then those comments deserve to not see the light of day.
I love your blog, I recommend it to my friends – it is a great place to read personal stories about personal finance. Keep up your GREAT work !!
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I am so glad you are willing to make an effort to keep the nastiness off your blog. This is one of the reasons I will keep reading it. I really get turned off by all the vitriol I read on other sites.
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Good for you! I really enjoy this blog, but tend to avoid comment sections for just this reason, good to know you don’t tolerate that kind of stuff. Thanks!
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I actually ran into a similar (but not the same) situation on another blog. It was a multi-author blog owned by a couple who started it as a blog targeted to real estate professionals. It really ran the gamut but mostly stayed on point.
They tried to slide some political blog posts in and it caused a reader uproar. Some comments were courteous and thoughtful. Others were downright nasty. Eventually, they ended the topic stream.
So….two things come to mind that may seem contradictory but really aren’t:
1. It’s your blog and you can do what you want, when you want and how you want.
2. The purpose of good blogging is to engage and encourage readership and dialog. It’s important to listen to readers.
From my seat, GRS does a pretty good job.
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I’m kind of sad you had to explain this.
I support your efforts to keep the tone here civil.
I appreciate that you selected a story on divorce and finance as part of a comprehensive education of basic finance. Divorce is personal, emotionally messy territory. Unlike term insurance, hard to lay out the terrain of that decision in a few paragraphs.
Links to relevant, thoughtful source material and helpful articles on financial issues surrounding divorce would be appreciated. Enough people that I know and love have experienced divorce or separation that avoiding the topic is no longer optional to me.
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Well the drama was quite exciting even to those who came late to the party! There actually was a fair amount of financial information in the post and many things I would like to have known more about how everything was handled post-divorce, but as you read through the comments, it sort of got blurred.
I could almost see something like that scaring off others from submitting reader stories. Which would be a shame.
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Huzzah for J.D.! Count me as another of your readers who really appreciate your guts and effort in making GRS a troll-free zone. This blog’s comments are some of the best around, in large part because they aren’t poisoned by venomous trolls, off-topic rants, and spam. Keep up the great work.
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How dare you have standards for your blog! hahahaha
Thank you! I wish more folks ran their sites with the same integrity.
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I think you are doing a good job on the blog and I think your policies are sound. You will never please everyone. As Heather said you have integrity and that is commendable. I read your blog every day and enjoy it. Some posts are of more value than others, that is the way it will always be. I support your policy of removing negative and impolite comments. Thank you for running a good blog and maintaining good standards!
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I didnt read the story when it was originally posted, I just saw something about how to deal with divorce and moved on, since it didnt apply to me nor does the topic really interest me.
However, after this I decided to go back and see what the fuss was about. Clearly, the posting of vitriol like your example shouldnt be allowed. On the same note, though, that story was entirely inappropriate for this site and I’m glad that people communicated that to you. Divorce isnt something that should be taken lightly, nor should it be considered in terms of a “good financial move” or a “bad financial move”.
@#18 – Integrity would be not running a story glorifying divorce.
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Thank you for your position on negative comments.
On a note regarding the issue in question – they should read web-boards that are anonymous and predominately female (mom-boards). The sheer number of women whose financial situation is a major factor of why they are staying in everything dissatisfying to dangerous relationships is boggling.
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I just discovered your blog about a month ago and really enjoyed it! I read it through my blog reader so miss the comments however, I appreciate you taking the effort to keep it a great to visit!
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This warning must be because of my *super* controversial reader post tomorrow.
(Can you tell I’m excited?)
“101 Ways to Abort Your Gay-Married, Al-Qaeda-Loving Baby for $39 or Less”
(Kidding! That’s actually Hyperbole and a Half’s post.)
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The rudeness, audacity and self-righteousness of people never fails to amaze me. Sorry you had to play courtesy traffic cop. Hopefully, you can now get back to your regularly scheduled program (which is a really good one, by the way).
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Haha at Nicole! That made me smile.
I don’t see how the post in question glorified divorce. I don’t think anything can glorify divorce. It’s usually something nobody wants to happen if it’s possible to avoid it (or that’s my hope, anyway…perhaps I’m naive). But pretending it doesn’t exist doesn’t do anyone any good, either. It does exist, whether you want it to or not, and it’s quite common, whether you want it to be or not.
I don’t understand the people saying that it didn’t belong on this site. It was about the financial considerations of divorce. Why doesn’t that belong on this site? Because it was about divorce, or because the author appeared to already be rich (in contrast to getting rich slowly)? I really don’t get that.
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@1… >>Is there a way to ban such commenters by their email address? That sure would be nice.
Please, no! If one day I get hot under the collar about something, doesn’t mean that the next day I might not cool down. Happens to everyone once in a blue moon, no?
I guess if someone is perpetually bad news, ban ‘em. Otherwise, just delete and see what happens next time.
(As it is, I didn’t comment on that post in question. ‘Twas quite the tempest, eh?!?)
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Sorry, JD, I’ll be one of the few who will probably get deleted on this comment thread because I don’t agree with you.
When one attempts to establish themselves as a leader and authority on a topic, there are going to be people who disagree with you. More than that, there are going to be people who disagree with the position of your guest posters, particularly those who use a spreadsheet to determine if it is time to put an entire family through marital separation.
The righteous leader knows that criticism will come and when it does, they will hear it out.
Deleting posts and censoring feedback – even if it becomes personal – is no less censorship than what China did to Google.
If suppressing free speech – and this was not a matter of yelling fire in a crowded theater – is what your “community” is all about, then that really says something about your core values.
I hope that one day you will understand what the heck I’m talking about – being a leader and taking the heat for a decision.
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JD, I wish the Oregonian would adopt some of your policies regarding comments. ;o)
The article in question made me very uncomfortable – downright creeped out, actually. It was the first time I’ve felt that way reading something on this blog. One of the things I love about GRS is that the topics are approached from a very personal and honest perspective. That perspective was lacking in the divorce article – the author seemed completely detached.
Upon reflection, I think there were some powerful messages that got lost because of the way the post was written. Female disempowerment with regard to money matters is a real problem. I volunteer with a shelter that has begun teaching financial empowerment classes to victims of domestic violence, because it is often a barrier to leaving an abusive relationship. I would love to see GRS explore that topic further.
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I’ve largely been a passive reader of GRS till now.
I’m just letting you know that I’ve liked your blog, and I support the way you have handled this particular issue.
There is no use getting emotional on a forum (blog) that is only supposed to help us move forward, and you are right in removing nasty comments.
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Where on earth are we as a society that you even need to explain this distinction and why some comments were deleted?! So pathetic.
I’m so grateful that you allow so many critical – yet constructive – comments. You are great at allowing comments with constructive criticism toward you. So many other blogs try to stealth-delete any comments that are critical of the blogger, or the blogger gets ridiculously defensive. You have a perfect balance.
Also, I actually laughed when I read comments that somehow that blog posting didn’t belong on GRS. Given that about half of all marriages end in divorce, and given the endless financial issues tied to divorce, it’s amazing that there are more similar posts on financial blogs. I was also incredulous that people self-righteously demanded more details from the author, as if her blog posting was supposed to detail every aspect of her marriage, divorce and finances all while being the length of a standard blog post. Please! Finally, it was pathetic to see so many people claim that they can’t learn anything from the author because she is wealthy/rich. Really? Does envy really make people block out reason that much?! You can learn a lot from someone who is wealthy and you can learn a lot from someone who handles divorce (or any form of conflict) with grace. Also, a side note for readers who don’t think they can relate to or learn from the wealthy — statistically speaking, I’m guessing that JD’s income and networth place him in the “rich” category
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“Get Your Hate On.”
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I wanted to chime in to second Shauna’s (26) request for more articles on the impact of finances on families in unstable situations and how to assert control over their welfare by asserting control over their finances.
I worked briefly as a lawyer in domestic relations cases, and both the men and women had trouble understanding their finances and how divorce (and, for that matter, a contentious legal proceeding) would impact them. I have read and heard and seen many instances where one partner (usually the wife) had no clue where accounts were held, how much money came in/out in a month and how their current lifestyle choices could affect their ability to live happily. This was true regardless of income level. I even have lawyer friends who, due to maintaining separate accounts, have no idea how their partner manages their finances (which I suppose is a whole ‘nother issue). Lots of potential seeds for future posts.
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Discussing the financial consequences of divorce and how to deal with them is a perfectly acceptable topic. The post in question did not do that. Instead it quite clearly *advocated* despite its financial consequences without any qualifications. That is what made people uncomfortable.
Its not you need to provide personal details or anything to justify your divorce, but more so that you promoted divorce without any qualifications othter than it might make you happier.
The fact that JD knows the author personally, or at least knows the whole story, of course skews his view of the article posted.
The article could have been prefaced with a simple paragraph along the lines of “divorce sucks, and no one wants to go through, but if you do it doesnt have to ruin your financial life or that of your children”.
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Brenton, your final paragraph may be the best summary of exactly what went wrong with that post. Thank you.
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I agree with your article. People have the ability to disagree politely!
I think Brenton’s first paragraph was better. I agree with other commenters that an article discussing the financial ramifications of divorce, including resource listings, etc. would be useful. However, keep the emotional part out.
I would have read and enjoyed an article about divorce more along the lines of ‘I’m divorced. This is what I wish I knew…’ I know the “reader stories” tend to be more emotional and go into some personal details but does it always have to be that way?!
I must say I didn’t bother commenting on the story in question or any of the comments because I didn’t read the article. After it got to the part about her thinking she should get divorced because other people were I couldn’t do it. The statement she made goes so far against my personal beliefs and I hadn’t noticed any element of financial info I could use up to that point that I couldn’t take it.
I also think the guest poster chose a bad way to make a decision or at least the thought process leading up to her decision. Relating to money, that’s how a lot of people get in debt!!!!! So, if we shouldn’t “keep up with the Joneses” financially is it really a good principle to follow in any aspect of our life? I felt it was not in line with the general principles taught on this site.
Thanks for the ability to comment. I’m sorry you have to weed through such filthy comments but I’m glad you do it for us! I usually enjoy reading the comments. Disagreements are what get discussion opened up and we can always learn something new or a way to show respect for others point of view from this.
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Well, yay! I do wonder why more blogs don’t just delete the trolls.
I also wonder why so many people feel like they have some kind of a right to fling insults at any poster they personally don’t agree with. Does it make them feel better about themselves or something?
I find it strange that divorce, which occurs in 50% of marriages, is controversial for a lot of people. I wonder–don’t these people have friends or family members who have struggled through divorce? Or struggled with bad or abusive marriages?
I also find it strange that anyone would think that they should or could get a full explanation of the reasons behind a divorce, apparently so they can judge the person, in the context of a post on the financial aspects of divorce.
Maybe next time, JD, you should have someone write a post about the financial aspects of being in a long term relationship with a same-sex partner!
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@27 – Ted, I fear it is you who is missing the point. If you want free speech, go stand on the street corner. But when you are in someone else’s home, you play by their rules. If you don’t like the rules, you are free to leave.
JD does do a remarkable job of keeping things civil. And it is greatly appreciated. Voicing one’s opinion is always encouraged here, but egregious rudeness should not and will not be tolerated.
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Amen. The occasional scroll through the comments section of the average Yahoo News (or many major news sources) article makes me wonder what kind of people are out there…
Kudos for maintaining a high level of discourse on this blog. There is certainly a way to voice disagreement without resorting to sad inflammatory statements.
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I also want to state my support for your decision J.D. GRS is my favorite blog and fully support your Troll Free Zone policy.
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JD;
I agree that it is wrong to post hateful comments instead of civil, well-thought out opinions. But for me, as an regular reader, this post in question was THE worse post I have read on your blog. And I read through everything that comes across your boards. Marriage/divorce is a very emotional aspect that affects many people. The two people separating, kids, friends, and so on. What was disturbing was the calculations she took into getting a divorce. If the story was on the financial repercussions of getting a divorce, I can understand that, but it felt like she was writing to say check with your financial adviser before you get a divorce. I think this way of thought hit a cord with some people and they did not know how to handle it in the proper manner.
Keep doing what you are doing JD.
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Acknowledging the reality of divorce is not glorifying it. Demanding civility of adults should be par the course. Free speech, while a constitutional right, should not be equated with a blanket acceptance of language that’s divisive, inflammatory, and belligerent. Moreover, such commentary derails discourse. I find the commentary sections of “You Tube” and virtually every “news” website repulsive and intolerable. GRS is a thriving community for a reason, JD you are to be commended. Thank you for sticking to your guns on this. I revel in the discourse on this site for that very reason!
One last observation, it seems like the “rich” are maligned a lot on this website-that’s pretty ludicrous. They are berated for having more options. They are chastised because others are in “mountains of debt.” They are reminded that other people have fewer options and they should be grateful. Their lifestyles are often questioned as overly indulgent or unrealistic. I do not frequent this site because I want to remain stagnant financially. Content should be kept fresh and not become redundant. I love to hear from relatively wealthy people, they are where I am striving to go.
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@39… I didn’t see maligning of the rich on that post. However, the rich DO have options that folks who aren’t rich don’t have. It’s a good incentive to become rich, but what a wealthy person can do in a situation does not apply to what the average person can do. I don’t think that making that point maligns the rich at all, just adds a reality check. Mentioning the rich and that they’re in the top X% of the population isn’t maligning the rich.
Yes, it’s great if you have those options, but don’t assume everybody does. Acknowledge that the situation is unusual. Point out the lessons learned (saved money can ease a divorce).
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Thanks for keeping it civil, JD. You’re doing just fine.
Maybe you should have more articles dealing with divorce and finances, though. It’s obviously a “hot button” and a common problem in “real life”.
#38–I don’t think that people villify the rich on this blog–not at all. I think that many who read this blog ARE well-to-do.
I think in general (in life), the rich probably get “villified”, but the readers here seem pretty civil to me. But then, I’m not “rich” as the USA defines it, but I’m probably “rich” as the rest of the world defines it.
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As an attendee of Jon Stewart’s rally last weekend, I’m glad to see we’re all “Taking it down a notch”. Civility is possible.
Also wanted to add to JD’s list of site’s where frustrated people can spout their nasties: Youtube. Oof, those people are mean.
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Thank you for keeping this a positive space (not a space free from criticism, but one without personal attacks).
I think a lot of people misunderstood the reader’s story about why she divorced. Divorce is painful. Should go without saying, but maybe people expected her to show a bit more pain to us in her post.
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Hello,
Is it ok to drop a link in my comments? I’ve only done it once so far and it was related to my comment. I’m just wondering if it is ok to put a link at the end all the time like this.
Thanks!
FROM J.D. — I EDIT OUT FOOTER LINKS WHEN I NOTICE THEM (unless they’re relevant)
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Thank you JD for keeping your site mature. Like others have said, it is one thing to politely disagree with what people say, but to personally attack them is unnecessary here. But I also think people need to realize that they can take what they like and leave the rest. The post you mention didn’t really apply to me. So I chose to leave it. But there are many ideas you post about here that are pertinent to me, and so I bring those with me. Like the car post today. I really hope you don’t get rid of personal posts. I think it adds a depth to your blog that you couldn’t provide on your own.
Thanks for the fabulous work you do!
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Sounds good, Thanks for answering.
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You go, JD. I think I understood that the OP was talking only about evaluating the financial ramifications of divorce, and that surely the emotional issues had already been dealt with. This was simply a mature, rational person deciding to look at the full picture.
I appreciate your efforts to keep the conversation civil, it’s not ‘suppressing free speech’ it’s requiring everyone to play nice. You are free to be a mean nasty person, but I don’t have to play with you or let you in my house. Hang tough!
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Hi! I never comment on blogs, but I thought that I would this once. I have read appalling things posted in the comments on other websites and I am glad that hate speech and personal attacks are kept off your website.
I think that it’s good to see a story from a woman who is putting her own needs first. We don’t know from her story what her relationship is like, but I don’t think that a woman should always put others first (such as by keeping the family together at all costs.)
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