Ask the Readers: How to Negotiate with Credit-Card Companies?
Published on - November 19th, 2010 (by J.D. Roth) A reader calling herself Florida Girl dropped a line recently to share her story of financial woe. Though she’s beginning to get a handle on her finances, she’s struggling to cope with the cost of her past choices. She needs help.
I’m struggling to keep up with the minimum payments on my credit cards. Unfortunately, I’m paying for past mistakes. I no longer shop and spend recklessly, but the aftermath of my past life left several cards with balances and very high interest rates. Due to increases in the cost of living (rent, insurance, groceries, etc.) I’ll soon be unable to make even the minimum payments on some of these cards.
I’m prepared to call each card company individually and try to negotiate some payback plan, but am unsure exactly how to go about that. What should I say? How demanding should I be? What shouldn’t I say? What should I do if the banks won’t work with me? Should I pay only what $30 when the minimum is $120 — or not pay anything at all?
I’m well aware of my mistakes and I’ve learned from them. I’m trying to find part-time work, but in the area where I live there’s a lot of unemployment, so I’m lucky to have even one job. I won’t give up trying, but it might be some time before I can increase my income. I’ve cut my living expenses as much as I can. And as I get some of these smaller balances paid, I can apply more to the bigger ones.
I’m not asking to have my debt erased or forgiven. I plan to pay every dime spent on credit (and never use credit cards again), but 24% and 29% interest is making it almost impossible!
The burden of credit-card debt can be soul-crushing. If you’ve never had to struggle with thousands of dollars of self-inflicted wounds, I’m not sure you can really appreciate how awful the experience can be. (All the more so since you’re usually aware that your own actions are the source of the problem.)
When I was drowning in debt, there were times I felt like giving up. In the end, though, my solution was use a home-equity loan to pay off my credit cards (not necessarily the smartest choice), and then boost my income to pay it all off. It never occurred to me to call the card issuers themselves to ask for help. Today I realize that many people have done this, often with success.
First actions
My first thought was that Florida Girl should call the credit card companies and ask for lower interest rates. Bob at ChristianPF has put together a short guide that explains what he did get lower card rates. Jean Chatzky’s Pay It Down! (which may be available at your local library or used bookstore) also describes how to negotiate lower rates. (Ramit at I Will Teach You to Be Rich also has some info on negotiating bank fees that might be usable in this situation.)
But while asking for lower rates may help in the long term, it doesn’t change the fact that Florida Girl has trouble making the minimum payments now. I’m not certain that’s something credit cards are able or willing to budge on, which means she may have to look for other solutions.
What sorts of solutions? If she has good credit, Florida Girl might consider transferring her balances to a card (or cards) with lower interest. Believe it or not, if you have good credit, there are still 0% balance transfer credit cards to be had. Though these rates are temporary, they could buy time for Florida Girl to pay down her balances so that when higher interest rates do kick in, the debt is more manageable.
Desperate measures
Since Florida Girl isn’t struggling only with credit-card debt, but also having trouble just making ends meet, it may be that she doesn’t have good credit. What should she do then? For advice on last-ditch scenarios, I turned to credit expert Liz Weston, who writes a popular personal-finance column and is the author of the excellent Your Credit Score. Liz wrote:
Anyone who is struggling to pay the minimums on credit cards needs to make two appointments:
- One with a legitimate credit counselor (one affiliated with the National Foundation of Credit Counseling)
- And another with an experienced bankruptcy attorney (who often offer free or discounted initial sessions)
The credit counselor can let you know if you qualify for a debt management program, which would allow you to pay back your debt over time at a reduced interest rate, but he or she probably won’t talk to you much about whether bankruptcy might be a better course. The attorney can do that. By talking to both of them, you get a much better picture of your options.
Some people are able to negotiate workout programs directly with their credit card companies. My concern is that by the time you realize you’re struggling to make your minimum payments, you’re already in pretty darn deep. It’s not just the interest rates that are killing you — it’s the amount of debt you racked up. People in that situation often aren’t realistic about what they can really afford to pay. They may start out with good intentions but then fall behind on their new payment plan at the first bump in the road. (I’m talking here about the workout plan with the creditor, but the same thing is often true of debt management programs with credit counselors.) Then the borrowers may be worse off than if they had filed for bankruptcy, because the creditor may revoke the program and they’re still stuck with the debt — plus the payment plan means they’ve thrown more money at a debt that may have been erased in bankruptcy.
But all of this advice is just theory. I don’t have real-world experience with this stuff, and I don’t think Liz does either. What Florida Girl needs is feedback from folks who have been there.
Have you negotiated with your credit-card company? Have you convinced them to lower your interest rates? To drop you monthly payment? To set up a payment plan? How did you do it? What did you say? What did you do wrong, and what did you do right? What can Florida Girl to in the short term so that she can buy time to let her new financial habits do their thing?
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Before I called the credit card companies, I decided I wasn’t taking ‘no’ for an answer. I needed to have the interest rate reduced, therefore reducing my minimum payments, so I could get back on solid ground again. I explained that I would rather not have to file for bankruptcy, but was prepared to do so if they weren’t willing to work with me. Most card companies have some sort of a hardship program that will reduce interest rates, even if for only 6 months. Be sincere and genuine about your situation when talking with them. And if they say they can’t help you, ask for a supervisor. If he says no, ask for his supervisor. Eventually, you will find a person who can, and will help you.
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I have no personal experience of this exact situation (I’m currently trying to snowball on my wife’s debts that I married into) but a co-worker of mine was in a similar situation after a divorce and was unable to pay his minimum payments. From what he told me, he went through a debt-consolidation program which combined his debts and reduced the overall amount giving him a smaller monthly payment, but his word of advice was that any reduction in your balance through such a program will be reflected on your taxes as “income”. Thus, it could potentially put you into a paying situation instead of a refund or break-even scenario, depending on your current withholdings and how you file your taxes. Overall, he ended up having to pay more- the reduced credit card payment, plus the fee for the service, plus the payment in taxes after some of his balance was reduced. Just something to keep in mind.
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I was in this situation 2 years ago with several credit cards. I called each one of them to see what they could do and as it turns out, all of them had some variation of a hardship program. I gave them some basic information about my monthly income compared to my monthly obligations and based on that, they would fit an appropriate progam to me. For example, my Discover had a 29% interest rate and a minimum payment of $120/month. After I called, they lowered my rate to 12% and a minimum of $49 for 12 months! The outcome was similar for my Chase account as well, and now I’m fortunate to be debt free.
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When I was in serious credit card debt with all my interest rates above 20%, I struggled for years to just make the minimum payments. I called several times to ask and then plead for a lower interest rate, but none of the companies would help me. Basically they know if you are still making payments, they are making money off you, so you have no real bargaining power with them.
What I eventually did (and wish I had done much sooner!) was to contact GreenPath which is a credit counseling agency. (NOT a debt consolidator! Those are a complete scam!)
What made the difference was lowering the interest rate. I was paying over $1300/month before and not seeing a dent in the debt. With the plan I set up I was paying $900/month and even adding in the $50/month fee from GreenPath, I still saved $300-400/month in interest alone. This allowed me to pay off my debt in less than 3 years. I wish I had done it sooner. The best part about a certified credit counseling agency is that they let you know if they can help you or if bankruptcy is your only option. Just know that it is a commitment to live pretty meagerly for a few years and if you stop making payments, the credit card companies can raise your rates again and charge huge fees.
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Although I have not personally been in this type of situation, I’ve worked with people who have and overcame it. Florida Girl, you are taking the right steps in changing your spending habits and being willing to communicate with your creditors.
Check out this article for some great tips on how to negotiate your credit card debt – http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/help/step-by-step-credit-card-debt-negotiation-6000.php
I’d also encourage you to take a closer look at how you can reduce your living expenses. For example, items such as groceries, phone and other expenses. Shopping smarter (e.g. coupons), shopping around and downgrading services (e.g. cable packages) will help you save more money.
I wish you the best.
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When my business failed in 2009 I had a mountain of debt left over from the business (all in my name) as well as personal debt from living on credit cards when the business wasn’t doing well. I was newly unemployed and making the minimum payments on my cards (combined, over $1500 monthly) was impossible. I called the various card companies (Citi, Discover, AmEx, USAA and others) and most were unwilling to do anything for me. After a month or two of non-payment they sent very nice offers to settle the debt or give me a lower rate if I would pay them, but by that time I was already working on bankruptcy proceedings.
If FloridaGirl has a good job and room to slash the budget and make payments, great – but at some point you’re past that point and need to seriously consider bankruptcy. I wish I had done so months or years before I did.
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Whatever you do, don’t pay less than the minimum payment without consent from the credit company. I tried this a few years ago and my account was “written off” and I was contacted by a collection agency. While the (second- first one was a horror story) collection agency offered a pay back plan with 0% interest, late payment fees and over limit fees from before the account was canceled, and attorney fees almost doubled the amount of debt I had just for that card.
Also, if your working directly with a credit company and they get bought by another bank, call the new bank immediately to make sure they will honor the agreement with the old bank.
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I tried asking for a lower rate once for the hell of it – just as a smart thing to do while handling other actions. I got stone-walled immidiately. They wanted me to sign up with different cards they had available and wouldn’t even discuss lowering a rate on my current one.
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I was in a similar spot just last year. I was able to secure a loan thanks to my mom, and in doing so, was able to pay off my credit card debt, had only one payment and a much lower interest rate. I also paid over all much less because I called and settled with my credit card companies. I had three.
My $6800 card was paid off with only $2500 and my $4000 was only $3000. The other card was a $1000 card I paid $300. This automatically closed all the accounts and removed all debt with each of the companies. It did require me to claim the “savings” as income on my taxes but I did not end up having to pay in and still recieved a refund, although much smaller than I normally would have. I used the refund to pay down my loan, and will continue to do so until the loan is paid in full (along with my monthly payments of course).
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Do you still get those 0% (or any% better than what you have) offers in the mail? Most credit cards will offer to match a competitor’s deal (you have to fax a copy of the offer to them) rather than lose your money to a balance transfer.
Good luck!
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Having been in the same situation a few years ago, I got myself out of debt by following the Dave Ramsey plan. Read the book, follow his plan, and you will be debt free.
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What Chad refers to is a settlement program, where payments made monthly to the agency are held in escrow and the actual credit accounts go into default. At this point, the agency then goes and negotiates a settlement – reflected as “Settled In Full” rather than “Paid in Full” on a person’s credit report. And yes, the difference between the original balance and the settlement amount is counted as taxable income for that fiscal year.
DMP’s or debt management programs work to negotiate lower interest rates and monthly payments with your accounts, but the accounts typically need to be closed in order for the lender to accept the program. This will have a negative effect on a person’s credit score of course, but allows a person to pay off the debt faster, paying less interest, and without going to collections status. Credit counseling agencies typically charge a monthly fee for the service included in the monthly payment which the agency then distributes to creditors according to the plan. The payment amount stays fixed, which means that a debt “snowball” strategy is in effect.
Typically, after going over a person’s monthly budget and liabilities, we would make all possible budget adjustments to see if they would be able to pay the DMP monthly. If not, a settlement was the next preferred option, with a suggestion to consult a bankruptcy attorney if they couldn’t afford those payments either.
When contacting any credit counseling agency or a company that does settlements, it is important to check their credentials. Are they on the BBB? Have there been a lot of complaints? They may have more than one address listed to hide complaints, so be through.
If a person is disciplined enough, balance transfers and direct negotiation with the lender can do the trick. Lower APR’s mean lower payments monthly, and much less paid overall. But defaulting on the terms of a 0% balance transfer or terms negotiated with a lender can put you back in a tight spot quick.
One last thing to consider if you can’t meet your debt payment obligations is that if the *bleep* hits the fan, you’ve got no credit as a recourse…so even though typically you want to pay high interest debt before establishing an emergency fund, it’d be ideal in this scenario to both stash away money for unexpected expenses as well as send out your debt elimination plan payments.
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I also don’t have real-world experience with credit card negotiations when you’re maxed out, other than vague knowledge of troubles from friends (I don’t pry). But it seems to me that Liz Weston’s comments are spot-on. Once you’re at the point where you’re having trouble making the minimums just negotiating with credit card companies isn’t going to be enough. Filing for bankruptcy may not be the best option, but a complete and total overhaul of some kind is probably necessary.
She also mentions increases in the cost of living including rent. When we were renting we had a lot of success talking our landlord out of rent increases because we were good tenants who always paid on time. If she’s been a good tenant, that might be a way to stop some of the bleeding if she can’t take in a roommate etc.
Similarly it’s worth a try shopping insurance companies and scaling down on groceries. (Next Monday our blog will have a piece on grocery shopping and cooking when you’re really broke. Not just beans and rice… also split peas!)
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I’ll be honest. File for bankruptcy. If you cannot make the minimum payments, its the best option for you and is completely legal. People might tell you its immoral or unethical, but bankruptcy laws exist for a reason. You wont be able to get credit for awhile, but if you cannot afford to pay your bills, then you probably werent going to get a loan anyway.
The worst option is to just not pay your bills and let them go to collections. You will just end up getting harassed and probably sued by the companies, and then comes the wage garnishment.
Speak with a bankruptcy attorney ASAP.
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I disagree with your “expert”. She’s hurting and courts would likely allow her to declare bankruptcy; but she’s not really out of all other options yet.
Make a budget, listed most important to least important. So your list should look something like:
* Saving (save just a little bit each month, until you have an emergency fund of $1,000 — Don’t touch it, except an emergency)
* Food (Groceries. Until that debt is cleaned up don’t enter a restaurant unless your working there.)
* Shelter (rent, utilities — dump cell phone for land line depending on cost of breaking contract)
* Transportation (Gas or bus)
* Clothing (this should be empty right now, if you have anything you can wear)
* All other needs.
* Credit cards. (yes, last)
Start at the top of the page, and allocate the money you have coming in to the categories, where you run out of money, you run out of money. Dray a line on the pad. That might mean someone doesn’t get paid.
If you have “found money” or unexpected income sometime during the month, go back to the budget and continue down the list.
Sell some stuff. Sell so much stuff your kids (if you have them) things their next.
Right now, your lawsuit proof — that doesn’t mean they can’t sue you, it means that if they sue you, you have nothing to give. Talk to credit card companies every month, and explain the situation; but, don’t let them bully you. If you happen to have a card or two get far enough behind, you may be able to get them to settle the debt for less than you owe. Never give them your account numbers or agree to automatic transfer.
Swear to take on no more debt, forever.
The big problem is the lack of income — Go to the library and take out Dan Brown’s 48 Days to the Work You Love.
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#2 – While it is true that forgiven debt is treated as income and the credit card companies often send you a 1099 showing it, you don’t always have to pay taxes on that amount.
If you can show you were insolvent when it was forgiven it isn’t treated as income. A tax prep person (or even a good tax book) can help your friend or the letter writer figure out how to show this on a return. Many people who are overwhelmed with credit card debt and making settlement payments meet the definition of insolvency.
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Ramit has scripts for exactly this sort of thing. They are in his book, which is probably at the library, and probably also on his blog which is free. Both are called I Will Teach You To Be Rich.
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I’m with Brent in #9.
Get the Elizabeth Warren book from the library and read her thoughts on bankruptcy. If you qualify, this is probably your best bet. If you truly feel the need to pay back the card companies, keep a list of what your balances were and when your financial situation stabilizes decide if you want to send them payment. They’ll take the check.
I know people rail against bankruptcy but sometimes it is the best option. If you can’t figure out a way to pay your living expenses and pay off this debt over 3-5 years, it may be the best thing for you.
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i second ramit’s scripts! they were a little forward for me, but i called my credit card companies with variations in the scripts and was able to noodle a few rates down. some cards wouldn’t budge, but most of the operators were helpful took off a few points (or told me when i could call back to have a better chance at negotiations).
it’s intimidating to call, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. just remember you’re arguing for your money and your future
(checking your account balances directly before you call can add a nice authentic tinge of desperation to your voice)
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Years ago I was in the very same situation as Florida Girl, only I was a student. The financial aid office in my college recommended to me that I look into debt consolidation. I found one company that helped negotiate with my credit card companies lower rates (three went down to 7% while the fourth went down to 10%). The consolidation company basically guarantied to the cc companies that I paid my debt monthly without falter or I’d be dumped from their program. I paid down ALL MY CC DEBT in five years. They also guided me when I found that my identity had been stolen, telling me what steps I needed to take.
Ameridebt was brought into a class action suit not too long ago because of charges they’d made to their customers which were considered to be ‘donations’. These charges were more like fees to me – they charged me $7/month. I wholeheartedly agreed to these charges whatever they were legally considered. I thought they were low, but didn’t know how their company was run, so didn’t question it. They lost the suit and I don’t think they exist any longer as a result??? I was surprised to receive a check in the mail one day refunding all the fees I paid to Ameridebt while paying down my debt – a whopping $65.
Not sure how debt consolidation companies can be evaluated now – there used to be a lot of scams out there.
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I don’t see a problem with trying to negotiate with creditors, but before even thinking about bankruptcy, I would take a hard, hard look at my finances. What can you cut out? Is she paying for cable tv? Internet? Eating out? New clothes? If she has a bare-bones spending plan with no luxuries, and STILL can’t make the payments, then bankruptcy might be the way to go but I wouldn’t think of that until you took a hard line at finances.
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I work for a settlement company, so I believe I can speak on the options available for people who are struggling to pay unsecured debts. Payments for debt management are usually in the neighborhood of 2.5% of your balance. Many financially challenged people will find that difficult to afford. It is a better option for people with high interest rates who are having trouble paying down their cards. It will have a negative affect on your credit as it is reported to the credit bureaus. In debt settlement, a professional negotiator or attorney will negotiate with your creditors to get the principal balance of what you owe reduced by about 40-50% (or more), and you make monthly payments into an escrow account which accumulate and are used to make those payments. No creditor will negotiate unless you are late by at least 90 days. Obviously, that will also be reported to the credit bureaus and your score will take a hit. Debt settlement companies are NOT fairly represented by the BBB, in that all companies are now being rated “F” with disregard to their track record, making the BBB an unreliable source of information. New rules instituted by the FTC at the end of October state that DS companies are no longer allowed to charge upfront fees. That means they can only charge you a fee once they have settled your debt and you have approved the settlement, so if any DS company tells you they charge an upfront fee, that is a red flag. If you have assets, you will have to file a Chapter 13 bankruptcy which will have you paying back most if not all of what you owe to the creditors under the watchful eye of a court trustee. Thanks to the credit card companies, a law which used to help people get a fresh start is now another option that people can’t afford. You do have the protection of the court however. I do believe that some people need help with their debts, however, I find that most people are not willing to make sacrifices and are looking for a way out that doesn’t require them to give up too much. All these options should only be considered if you are experiencing a financial hardship and can’t pay even if you cut your budget to the bone. You should investigate all three options and decide based on what works best in your situation and comes with a consequence you can live with.
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I was in this position a few years ago, but I wasn’t able to get out of it without some serious knocks to my credit. I’m slowly rebuilding, now, and with the help of a family member who knows all the tricks of the trade, I’m finding out that my credit is actually not as bad as I thought.
The biggest thing that helped me was getting on the credit cards’ hardship programs. Even if it doesn’t help you pay it off in the long run, it might help you to continue making payments while you get over a hump. In my case, it helped me knock out the smaller debts by reducing the minimum payment on my much larger debt.
Unfortunately, you might have to miss a payment or two to even get them to talk to you about getting put on the hardship program. However, it can help if you have a written budget and know exactly how much you can afford to send each one. Saying things like, “I’ve got x dollars to spend, and I’m planning to send it to the one who is willing to work with me” can get your foot in the door. I even offered to send them a copy of my budget so they could see what I was working with. None of them took me up on it, but it did seem to get them willing to talk to me about lowering my minimum payments, at least in the short term.
She may also want to look at other housing options. I was able to live in a rental properly owned by a relative rent-free in exchange for doing maintenance work on the place where I was living (it was trashed by previous tenants). I also lived in a friend’s spare bedroom for about a month, when I needed to move for work. One thing you should definitely do, at the very least, is get roommates or move into a spare bedroom that someone is trying to rent out. You will almost always do better, rent-wise, than you would renting from one of those managed apartment communities.
The most important thing to remember is don’t give up! This too will pass. The world won’t end just because you got started down a wrong path. I know it sounds trite, but it’s true.
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I have been on debt management plan for three and a half years and it’s not easy, but it works. You wean yourself from credit cards completely, learn to live on cash, make your monthly payment to the counseling service who pays your bills down because they’ve negotiated your interest rates so low you can actually pay the debts off. Each month I get a statement from EACH credit card and also from the counseling service showing my balances. So I know they are getting the payments and I am paying down the debt. The best news is mine was a five year plan and I am on the downhill side. I highly recommend one called Consumer Credit Counseling Services, and I highly recommend doing this and getting rid of credit cards once and for all.
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ONE MORE THING ABOUT Credit counseling payments- it does not reduce the overall amount therefore there is no tax hit. You pay what you owe. Nothing is forgiven, only interest is lowered to very, very low.
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Dave Ramsey has a good step-by-step for people in this position. Basically, when you get paid you set aside the money you need for food, shelter, and utilities in that order. Whatever is left you divide up between your creditors based on how much you owe them. So if 50% of your debt belongs to Company A, then they get 50% of what you have to give, even if that is less than the minimum. You call and explain that you can’t make the full payment, but that you are committed to paying your debt as quickly as you are able. Then, when you mail in your payment to each company, you include a copy of your plan. This way you are as fair and on the up-and-up as possible.
It goes without saying, but obviously your budget has no room for extra expenses (entertainment, clothing, etc.) until things loosen up. I know you’re already working on this, but you need to be looking for extra income from any source, even if it is minimum wage or less (newspaper delivery, babysitting, etc.) Anything at all to loosen things up.
I think Ramsey’s site has blank forms to work out your plan, and scripts for what to say. You might check there.
Yes, bankruptcy is an option, as others have mentioned. But some people (like myself and, it sounds like this writer) would prefer to exhaust all other options before turning to that extreme.
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I’ve faced a similar situation as Florida Girl- past mistakes and a move for a new (better paying) job put me in an extremely tight spot where I was having trouble paying even the minimum balances on my credit card. A friend of mine had a good experience with Debt Reduction Services, and after talking with her, and working up the courage to go there (and throwing up in their bathroom during my appointment because I was so nervous!) I signed up for a debt reduction program. My interest rate is now 1% and I’m slowly paying down my debt. I should be free in three years, and it’s the best feeling ever. I’m now in control of my finances and am working every day to break myself of bad spending habits.
Getting control of my money has been the best feeling ever, and I’m thrilled every day that brings me closer to my goal of being debt free. I can’t say enough good things about the help I got from DRS, and I hope Florida Girl can do the same!
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Perhaps she could get a loan to cover some or all of the debt through a peer-to-peer lending program. Does anyone have experience with that?
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With 0% balance transfer offers be aware of the minimum 3%-5% transaction fees! This is an upfront cost you pay before funds applied will go toward your principal pay down.
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On bankruptcy, one thing to keep in mind – there is the federal bankruptcy law, and then each state has their own version. You have a choice (at least in many cases) to go through the state *or* federal process. So what holds in one state may not match another one exactly.
If you get to that stage, a lawyer can help you choose which type of bankruptcy (federal vs. your state) is best for your specific situation.
Also, “assets” in bankruptcy are the ‘estate value’ (what you/or the bankruptcy trustee/ could sell them for, not what you paid for them), so unless you have a lot of cash assets, home equity, or collectibles, your assets may not be worth so much.
Different types of bankruptcy have different rules for what counts as an ‘exempt’ asset – that is, stuff you are allowed to keep (not sell to satisfy creditors) – the exemptions aren’t huge, but they do exist. again, if you get to that stage, your lawyer can guide you.
Can you tell my spouse & I have talked to a lawyer about this?
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For more on Dave Ramsey’s pro-rata payment plan, see http://www.biblemoneymatters.com/2008/06/dave-ramseys-financial-peace-university.html.
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Many years ago when I was in a similar situation I tried to negotiate with the credit card companies but they wouldn’t do anything. I contacted a credit counseling company and the counselor told me I wasn’t even making enough to bother setting up a payment plan. With the credit cards adding on late fees and over the limit fees every month I went ahead and filed. Now that I have the benefit of hindsight I know I could have gotten out of the situation without filing bankruptcy but at the time it seemed like the only option.
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I had to file for Chapter 7 early on in life. If they won’t work with you, and it’s the only thing you can do, do it. Almost 7 years later my credit score is now over 700.
It’s not ideal, but you deserve a second chance. Other things would bother me, but the way the debts I had worked out it wasn’t too bad. Again though, grill the attorney on what you’d lose. I didn’t have anything worth keeping, no 401K, no other assets, if you’re renting and only have an old car and some clothes, it’s not too bad. But it’s a state by state law on what you can keep.
Second chances are a part of the foundation this country. Take it if you need to, life will go on, your credit will rebuild if you’re smart about it. The biggest concern would be what you have to lose by filing.
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I’m currently in the same position as Florida Girl, or at least I was a few months ago. I have a decently-paying full-time job and had 5 credit cards, plus a student loan. The amount of my debt isn’t huge, but the interest rates were killing me. The finance charge alone on just one of my cards was in excess of $400/month. The only one which had a decent APR (~12%) was a card I had already closed. The others were all 19-27%. I was literally drowning in debt.
When I tried calling one of my cards to ask for a lower interest rate they instead referred me to a debt management company called Take Charge America. I think that phone transfer will wind up being a life-changer.
Take Charge America is a non-profit debt-management company, meaning they work *with* the credit card companies to pay back all of the debt owed, but at a much lower interest rate. They charge a $35 monthly fee along with a $50 one-time set-up fee. They also stipulate that all accounts must be closed for the duration of program enrollment. However, they don’t just stop there. Yes, it’s great that they were able to reduce ALL of my APRs to lower than 10% (range of 6%-9.9%), and it’s great that this program will pay off all my debts within 5 years, but they also work with you during an initial phone call to look at all your options. They take a look at your income versus your debt and tell you straight-up if the debt-management program or if bankruptcy is the best move to take, as well as the ramifications of those choices. They also work with your income to set up a liveable, workable budget. They also offer a host of financial tools and advice on their website. They make it plain that you are the one who has to make the hard choices, but they give you all the tools you’ll need and offer a helping hand along the way.
The result? Right now my monthly payment to TCA is less than my monthly payments to just two of my five creditors was. I will be debt-free in about 4 1/2 years. And by the end I will have paid TCA about $2,000–which will be a huge bargain if it sets me up for financial success from here on out.
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I am currently paying off the balances of two credit cards — balances I haven’t added to at all in a couple of years. They total about $7000.
They both had high interest rates: 24% and 27%. I was able to make the minimums but I couldn’t pay extra and I was getting NOWHERE. Rather than trying to negotiate for a slightly lower interest rate (I am very non-confrontational and I didn’t think they were going to lower it drastically enough anyway), I opted instead to apply for a loan at my credit union, for the balance of one card. I got approved and they transferred the balance for me, just as a balance transfer credit card would do. Now instead of paying 27%, I’m paying 7.5%, and I’m much happier giving interest money to my local CU rather than a huge credit card company. Of course I am always free to pay extra on the monthly payment; the payment, which doesn’t fluctuate month-to-month, comes automatically from my checking account each month. (And they let me choose the day of the month). They were incredibly nice about setting up the loan and I’m happy I did it.
I kept the second credit card balance on the card, but I am now hoping to transfer it as well. I was making extra payments on top of the minimum on that card, using the snowball method (and paying the minimum on my loan), only to have AmEx continue to up my minimum each month! It got to the point where I could only afford to pay the minimum because the minimum payment had gone up by about $40 a month. I didn’t understand, since I thought the minimum payment was calculated based on a percentage of the total, and the total was dropping. I requested my cardmember agreement and discovered a clause that said that if you repeatedly pay a certain amount over the minimum, AmEx will change your minimum payment to reflect the total average you pay. I was pretty upset — the extra I was paying was not something I could always afford every month and now I was locked in to that payment. I started paying the minimum only and now the amount due t is slowly beginning to go back down. It’s outrageous. They obviously just want you to pay the minimum so you’re paying the largest amount of interest possible over the life of the credit card. NO THANKS. So I am consulting with my credit union about the possibility of a second loan.
Even if I transfer both cards to loans, I will keep the cards open, as I have had the one card for a very long time and it has a high credit limit. I don’t want to hurt my credit score, and I haven’t used the cards in several years so I’m not worried about adding to it. But each person is different; it might be easier for some people to close their cards.
Of course, the CU loan opportunity was available to me because although I’m struggling to pay my CCs, I still have good credit. I don’t know if that’s the case for you, but it’s something to think about. If I transfer my second card, my minimum payments will be about $50 less a month than I’m currently paying, and I feel safer and better owing the money to a local credit union, whom I feel I can work with in times of hardship, rather than the credit card companies, who, in the end, are mostly just out for my money.
Good luck!
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When I called Citicard to warn them that I would miss a payment I was actually offered to participate in a program that would reduce my interest rate for 6 months, and lower my monthly payments with it.
They also close the card’s remaining balance off.
After 6 months they review your credit rating again, and if you’ve been paying steadily for the 6 months without incident they will adjust your interest rate to something lower than what it was before.
I’m still paying the balance down on that card, but at this point my interest rate has dropped from 30% to under 10% over 2 years.
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I used to call them up once a year and either ask for an available balance increase or a lower interest rate and as long as you have not missed a payment or been late most of them have no problem giving you what you ask for without a fight. The most important thing to do is to call and ask.
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RE: Debt Settlement
I erased about $60,000 in credit card debt this year by approaching the companies directly and negotiating settlements and then living very frugally to fund the payments. I am lucky to have a healthy income though.
Negotiating may not even be the best word for what I did, since I really just asked the collectors who called me if they had a settlement offer and took what they offered me. I did have to let everything get at least 90 days behind before they would consider settlement so it is bad for your credit, but most people considering debt settlement plans probably don’t have good credit anyway.
I do question whether debt settlement companies are worth it though. I paid on average 58% of the outstanding balances I had on my cards and, as I said, didn’t even really push hard to get to that number. I don’t see where it is worth it to pay a settlement company a fee to do what is in my experience fairly easy to do yourself. I suppose if you are very timid or nervous about being bullied by the collection agencies it may be worth it to avoid that?
But settlement only works if you can afford to pay big chunks of the debt off and I don’t think Florida Girl is in that circumstance.
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I was in a very similar situation about 5 years ago. I had racked up nearly $13k worth of debt on my credit card (that number still pains me) – it was mostly a by-product of being a 20-something and never having any money on hand for emergencies, such as car repairs and dentist visits. Over the course of 10 yrs, it really added up! I finally got settled in my career and started getting serious about paying it off. Although I was not making a dent, I did always pay my min. on time, so I had a good credit score. I used the “transfer to 0%” option and did this about 3 times (once one “0%” period would end, I would transfer to another “0%” card). Even with the transfer charge (and sometimes there was none) I finally started making progress! I was nervous my credit score would be affected, since people told me opening these card and closing other ones would affect it, but I saw no noticeable difference. You just have to be hyper vigilant that you do not make a late payment, b/c if you do, rates sky rocket! I now maintain a zero balance and am even getting the hang of using the rewards program on my primary card. It can be done, hang in there!
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Why not look into consolidating your debt yourself at a lower interest rate with one payment through 1) a home equity loan, or 2) a peer-to-peer loan such as from Lending Club or Prosper, or 3) if you are in dire straits — such as your credit is so bad no one will lend to you and you are having trouble paying both the rent and putting food on the table — check into ModestNeeds.com (or .org?) for the help to get you over the hump. Best wishes and don’t just give up.
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There is some great advice already on here, but one thing a friend did hasn’t been mentioned. Does your company reimburse for tuition?? My friend who was over her head in debt enrolled in one class at the community college, then took out the maximum amount of (deferrable) loans. She used the loan money to pay down the credit cards, and her company paid her tuition as long as she got decent grades. The company also paid for her books, which she would then sell after the class was over. It effectively lowered her interest rates, and gave her some breathing room. You will still owe the money though, and student loans can’t be gotten rid of with bankruptcy, I think.
A warning, though. Break your bad habits. She did great with this for about 6 months, then started paying minimums and buying more stuff, and if she loses her job it is going to be ugly.
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“How demanding should I be?” How demanding are you usually when you borrow someone else’s money, and can’t pay them back on time?
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Several of the responders above have posted that they have or expect to pay taxes on forgiven debt (difference between their balances and what they actually negotiated to pay) after using debt settlement.
Here’s a link to the IRS form you use to show that you should not have to pay tax on this “income”, even if you received a 1099 from your credit card company. You use this to show insolvency. Most people with lots of credit card debt meet the criteria.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f982.pdf
I regularly read PF articles that say taxes must be paid on the forgiven balances but that isn’t true in most cases.
If you’ve filed the return in question already (Hannah, #9) you might check to see how much extra tax you paid. Sometimes it is worth filing an amended return.
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I think it’s awesome the poster is trying to change. One commenter mentioned tryi g all the time to be better w money. All this saddens me. I wonder the % of people who go through credit counseling (w/ type co recommended by Liz Weston) go crazy as soon as their 5 years are up.
A friend has gotten a car payment, bought a bed on credit and taken a loan from a friend for a cruise since finishing her payment plan from past debt. I knew it was going to be bad as soon as she asked me this summer if I thought it was a good idea to get a secured credit card to rebuild her credit. I said no and she got one anyway. Then got a real cc and started spending more than she could pay each month. Seems like just a cycle to me!
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Best of luck to here, and here’s what I would say, based on what she said in the quotes except for the second paragraph (which is just questioning what to ask for). It’s an honest, forthright explanation, with the language changed to a slightly more positive tone:
I’m struggling to keep up with the minimum payments on my credit cards. Unfortunately, I’m paying for past mistakes. Though I have changed my shopping and spending habits, the aftermath has left several cards with balances and very high interest rates (24-29%). Due to increases in the cost of living (rent, insurance, groceries, etc.) I am having considerable difficulty making even the minimum payments on this card.
I’m well aware of my mistakes and I’ve learned from them. I’m actively seeking a second job in an area where there is a lot of unemployment. I’m lucky to have even one job. Because it might be some time before I can increase my income, I’ve cut my living expenses severely to have as much money as possible to put toward paying off my debt.
I’m not asking to have my debt erased or forgiven. I’m committed to paying every dime spent on credit (and to being very mindful if I use a credit card in the future), but the interest is making it a considerable challenge and I really need your help. How can we work together to achieve this goal?
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I have personally been in the situation where I have negotiated with the credit cards company in reducing my payments. I was young and used the credit card to its max. I simply called them and asked to talk to the supervisor and explained my situation. They declined at first as they were making money from my interest rates ( which was in 20). The next month I didn’t even make a payment and called back again with the same request and this time they put me 12 month fixed low interest rate program. It didn’t hurt my credit either as i wasn’t late for more than 30 days. I did that for 4 different banks. The key here is persistence on calling the bank.
If you aren’t really worried about your credit, you could stop paying the credit cards for 3-4 months (which you couldn’t have done it before) and call them back one at a time to settle on pennies for dollar. But this is the last thing you should do and only if you absolutely don’t have the money to pay the full amount. Integrity is one thing you should always maintain no matter what situation you are in.
I really wouldn’t advice bankruptcy. You can pay pennies on the dollar if you are in that situation. And please, do not fall for debt consolidation program. You can pay your credit card debts with the money they charge.
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There are various things she could do. Call the credit cards company and explain the situation, of course, they won’t listen on the first time. Then miss the next payment and call them, they are more inclined to listen to you. This is exactly what I did on 4 credit cards and they put me on a low interest program for 12 months to pay of my debt. It really helped me.
Please do avoid debt counseling as they are just scams to take you money and don’t even consider bankruptcy unless you have million dollars in debt which I seriously doubt with the monthly payments mentioned.
You can delay the payment 3-4 months and bargain to pay for pennies on dollars but only if you don’t have the money to pay for full. Integrity is one thing you should always maintain no matter how deep you are in debt.
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I know someone who several months ago renegotiated her 58k of credit card debt. She also could not meet her minimum payments. The credit card companies would not work with her until she threw around the word bankruptcy. Everything changed when she told them, quite truthfully, that they were leaving her with no other option. Chase even reduced her principle somewhat (that had incurred due to late fees).
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Whatever you do, you must think of these people as vultures who would happily feed on your entrails. Watch the movie “Maxed Out” and arm yourself with knowledge instead of caving to the pressure of debt collectors.
The fact is, unless you have a large debt that merits a legal case, there is nothing credit card companies can do to except “ruin your credit”. Boohoo. If they sue, it will usually be a bluff to get you to lose by default judgment. NEVER ignore a court summons. Respond to it within your 30 allotted days(or whatever they give you) and they will usually drop the matter. I did this with some $37 set of premade legal documents (fill-in-the-blanks). Best money we ever spent, if was from a site like this:
http://www.creditinfocenter.com/legal/ive-been-sued.shtml
(Not sure if it’s the same– just saying)
If you can’t pay your credit cards, DO NOT forgo of rent, utilities, food and medical care to satisfy these vultures and their 29% interest rates. There’s a reason why it’s called *unsecured* debt.
Then they start offering settlements, or selling your debt to other people for pennies on the dollar, etc. To see how your debt gets resold, again, watch Maxed Out.
Also the statute of limitations on legal action expires after X number of years (depending on your state, can be 3, can be 7). The moment you pay them a single penny, the statute of limitations begins again. Always negotiate from a position of power, which is: threaten bankruptcy, admit to nothing, pay them nothing, save your cash. They want to scare you but they don’t want you to go bankrupt, so they will quickly settle because they’d rather get something instead of nothing. Save cash if you can (or sell your 2nd car) to settle a debt.
Also, some of the people who claim to have bought your debt don’t even have the papers to prove it. Any time some debt collector ask you to pay them, sask for verification– or better yet, wait till they try to sue you and then ask them to verify the debt. They will often have nothing to back it up because your debt will have changed hands so many times– it’s a casino-type business. Horrible.
I *hate* credit card companies and their slippery ways, but he debt buyers/collectors are even worse. They will bury you if they can. Forewarned is forearmed.
I’m not encouraging people to commit fraud– lying in your credit application is fraud. Not paying when you have the means to do so is irresponsible behavior. However, too many of us are bullied into a lifetime of indentured servitude because we don’t know our rights when we are unable to pay.
Also, beware of bankruptcy lawyers: they don’t always have your best interests at heart, they want your case so they can make money, but you might not need bankruptcy. However, if you put a lawyer on retainer, the CC companies are legally obligated to stop harassing you — you can in fact countersue for damages should they persist. Just because you’ve put a lawyer on retainer doesn’t mean you will ultimately file. This puts you in a strong bargaining position and buys you time to save cash for your settlement, for example. Also, you can make demands that when you settle your debt they erase the negative feedback on your credit report (e.g report it “paid in full” instead of “settled”): http://debtprison.net/wordpress/41/how-to-settle-your-debts-on-your-own/
By al means do not start guilt-tripping if you can’t pay your debts. Do not let them vultures shame you. Yes, you signed for the debt and you were stupid, but it takes two to tango, so credit cards are also at fault with their phony fees, their impossible interest hikes, their check-shredding when you pay them (again watch Maxed Out), and their irresponsible lending. We are all human, we all err, but now you’re fighting for your life; get mad, go to war, and learn how to conduct this war. Nobody cares more about your money than yourself.
EDIT- oh, I found the documents I used, it’s from this site I think, looks cheesy I know but the thing worked.
http://www.howtoansweracreditcarddebtlawsuit.com/
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I recommend the wonderful book “How to Get Out of Debt, Stay Out of Debt, and Live Prosperously.” There are detailed scenarios for dealing with CC companies. Many of the seemingly “non-profit” or “consumer-oriented” “agencies” are businesses that seek to extract the last bit of cash out of people in trouble. The new consumer protection laws–luckily–prohibit these companies from taking a payment BEFORE they actually help you.
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