Ask the Readers: Should We Move to a More Expensive Part of the Country?
Published on - January 28th, 2011 (by J.D. Roth) The Friday “Ask the Readers” column generally follows a set format: I introduce the topic, share a reader e-mail, give my best advice, and then ask for your feedback. Today’s column is a little different. Jennifer sent me a 1000-word question, and rather than write any sort of response, I’m just going to let her have the entire space. Everything that follows is from Jennifer.
My husband and I are in our mid twenties (no children yet), and currently both employed full time with good benefits. We live in Phoenix, which has a relatively low cost of living (our rent and utilities total about $800/month).
Before taxes, we probably make a combined $75,000 per year. While this sounds great, a large portion of our income (about $1300/month) goes toward aggressively paying down our large student loan debts (~$120,000 combined, most at 3%). Although our loan terms last up to 20 years, we’re on track to pay them off in ten years — quicker, if we increase our payments as our incomes increase. Other than our student loans, we have very little debt, at very low interest rates: I have about $6000 on my 0% car loan, and my husband has about $1000 in 0% credit card debt.
We’ve also managed to save a good amount of money in the two years since graduating college. Although we can’t yet max out our retirement accounts, we both have tax-advantaged accounts. (I have a Roth IRA and Roth 401k, he has a 403b and a state retirement plan.) Since the beginning of 2009, we’ve managed to save over $15,000 in cash (emergency fund contributions and wedding gifts), and about $20,000 in retirement savings.
Now that you know our background, here’s our question: Should we move to an area of the country that has a much higher cost of living, but better intangible benefits? Or should we stay where it’s cheap and pay down more debt?
We’ve agreed that we want to be out of the Phoenix area within three to five years, but we aren’t sure if now is the right time. I finish my Master’s degree in a few months, and it’s the only thing really anchoring us here at the moment other than our jobs.
These are the benefits of moving:
- Living much, much closer to family and friends. Our travel costs will drop significantly, since we currently spend anywhere from $2000 to $4000 on flights every year, plus insurance and car expenses for this road-loving city. We both really miss our family and friends, and they all live within a day’s drive of New York City. We met in Ithaca, NY, and would love to have the option to travel there for some of the key weekends, like Reunion, Slope Day, Apple/ Chili/ or Ithaca Festivals, etc.
- Phoenix is too harsh an environment to raise a family. No offense to those who love it, but we don’t want our (future) children living in such a polluted, dry environment — we can barely handle it, and we’re adults! We want trees to clean the air and grass in the yard or the park, not rocks, sand, and scorpions. Also, we want to be closer to family by the time we have kids (in maybe five to ten years). My fitness level has declined since moving here as well, because I can’t run outside due to the pollution levels.
- Driving in Phoenix is terrible and dangerous. We also love the idea of living in an area where driving a car isn’t required, so we could potentially get rid of one vehicle. (Ideally, we’d live within walking distance of a train line that connects to Grand Central.) Getting rid of a vehicle would save us a few thousand dollars per year, and a lot of headaches. I grew up in Connecticut, so I’m used to NYC rush-hour traffic, and trust me, it doesn’t hold a candle to the chaos of the drivers that hit the road (and each other) in Phoenix every day.
But moving isn’t without its drawbacks, which include:
- Expensive housing. Right now, we pay only $650/month for a two-bedroom apartment with a washer/dryer in the unit (plus utilities). Similar units where we’re looking to move would run about $900-$1200 per month. I might be able to convince my employer to give a small cost-of-living raise, but we’d still have less wiggle room in our finances. Luckily, our debt payments won’t increase based on where we live, so not all of our expenses will rise.
- Jobs situation. My employer (an engineering firm) has offices back east, and I’m looking into getting a transfer to an office they’re expanding. But my husband works for ASU, and clearly Arizona State does not have any east coast offices. He wants to start his own cleaning company someday, but in the meantime he’s getting hands-on experience working in the facilities management department of the university. This also affords us both free tuition, and clearly (as evidenced by our student loan debt), we place a high value on education rather than on material possessions. He’d have a wide variety of schools to apply to, if we lived near New York City, but we don’t know what the job market for universities is like back east yet.
So, GRS readers, what should we do? Do we stay here a few more years and pay down debt, but possibly losing the opportunity to transfer to another office within my company and miss out on visiting family/friends for a few more years? Or do we move when we have the chance, even if it reduces our capacity for savings/debt repayment for a few years? We’d love opinions from people who have made similar moves in the past, or from people who live in the greater NYC area.
J.D.’s note: This is a tough one. I can see arguments for both sides. On the one hand, I think it makes sense to stay put for a few years so that Jennifer and her husband can be aggressive with debt. But if they’re miserable, what’s the point? One possible solution would be to find an interim place to live — someplace inexpensive yet liveable — for a few years while they aggressively pay down debt.
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Speaking as someone who lived *in* NYC, just *outside* of NYC, and two hours away from NYC, your question is impossible to answer without more details. There is a huge difference in economies, job opportunities, and costs of groceries & utilities depending on your location. When we lived right outside the city, we paid $1350 for an apartment within walking distance to the trains, but we paid a huge amount in train passes. We also paid a lot for every other cost. Now we live a good distance from the city, and the rents are not much cheaper (utilities are), but we still pay around $450 in train costs during the months where my husband is traveling regularly in to the city (1x per week). Both of those locations also demamded we have a car, as while the train was walkable, grocery stores, laundromats, etc aren’t always. And there are some towns, such as where my in laws live where there are essentially no jobs. You can get a cheaper rent, but may not have the guarantee of a second income. It’s hard without some clear information like general region (Westchester, Jersey, NYC, Ulster County, Lower CT, etc), expected lifestyle (daily commuting into the city, occasional city visits, etc) and relative size of apartment (1 BR, 2 BR, house) to even begin to guess if your plans are reasonable or dangerously short-sighted, let alone offer any solid advice.
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Moving will add another $2000 of expenses up front. Once you pay for the actual move, deposits, and multiple misc. expenses you will shell out quite a bit of money. Is your employer willing to cover moving expenses? We moved five times is six years. All but one of the moves were employer paid. The last few moves had the same objective as yours, to get close to our roots.
Still, you’re looking at this as an “either, or” situation. You said you’re both single. What prevents you from moving now, picking up some extra income (JD has several posts on legit ways to do that)and continuing to pay down debt? You are already in the “bust your ass” mode from college. You could just apply that to a second job and be closer to home now. I don’t see your situation as only having two options.
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I agree with J.D. Stay put for a couple of years and pay that student loan down as much as possible while you are without children and have no large expenses.
My wife and I are in the same situation. We are both in our mid 20′s and I got a job 1,400 miles away from our home. It was exciting at the time, but a couple of years later, and we’re really itching to go back. Luckily, we were able to live cheaply and pay off about $15,000 of our student loans so far. Only $4,800 to go! Once we pay off the last chunk, we will consider moving back.
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I live in NYC (my wife and I both born and raised, we’re in Brooklyn now) and, if I were you, I would stay in Phoenix as long as possible. Get rid of your debt. Assume rent is going to cost you $1800/month and save up enough cash to cover a years worth of rent (this should not be your emergency savings, leave that be). And make sure you have work when you get here.
Our combined salaries are in the low 120s, yet it is still very difficult to have any savings, invest for retirement, etc (we don’t have a car, and our expenses are stripped bare,damn you credit card debt!) Rent, childcare, and groceries taking the biggest chunks out of our cash flow.
NYC is a great place to raise a family; you have access to so much, and I feel like my children are more savvy growing up here (sorry, little NYC snobbery sneaked in there, I can’t help it, I am from here!) My 3yr old daughter knows what trains to take to get back home! But I wouldn’t come here with kids; if you do move here, wait a couple years before the kids come so you can build a nice cash-flow first.
FYI, my wife and I want to move out west; we want a slower lifestyle and lower cost of living, but our careers are just starting to take off, so that is keeping us here at the moment.
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This one is tough. A great case study on how debt can be an albatross affecting your every move.
I’m inclined to say move anyway. You guys obviously hate where you live, so just do it. It sounds like you have some flexibility on where you move to, so try to keep your costs down.
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The one thing that stands out to me is that very soon you will have a masters in engineering and a few years experience. That would put your pay on the east coast near 65000 or 70000, without considering what your husband is able to bring in. You may double some expenses, and cut others, but he easiest way to cut debt faster is to make more money. I would move once your degree is finished if there will be a pay increase to do so!
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I say finish your education and then have your DH start applying for jobs out East and make the decision when he’s got one.
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I’ve lived in London, NYC, and now Chicago. Obviously, I enjoy city life. But now I’ve got a slower lifestyle (and better weather) out West on my mind, though probably still a major city. If you’re seriously thinking about moving to NYC, know that your return on that investment will be cultural… it takes a lot of work to truly get ahead there and after a while, you might get sick of all the inherited affluence — I couldn’t stand Manhattan after being there a couple years. Brooklyn, however, is one of the best places on Earth.
These decisions shouldn’t all be logical and everything can’t be based on finances. At some point, you’ve got to stop worrying and live your life. You’re young and you will never get this time back. Follow your heart, try to stay true to your goals, but don’t sacrifice everything… or you’ll wake up one day in your 70s, on a pile of money but no fulfilling memories. You can’t take it with you.
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One piece of advice from someone who is only a few years ahead of you in life…
Once you live somewhere for about 5 years, it becomes harder and harder to leave.
– You start to gain significant career momentum and it is harder to consider leaving.
– You might have purchased a house by this point, which ties you down a bit.
– You have really good friends, which it is hard to consider leaving.
My advice – life is too short to live somewhere that you don’t want to live. If you want to be closer to family – do it. If you want to live somewhere tropical, cold, in the mountains, whatever – do it.
You’ll only regret staying put because you were too scared to the pull the trigger and take action. Take action.
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We lived in NYC (The (lower) Bronx) for 9 years, and in Westchester (Dobbs Ferry, train commute) for 2. Our combined salary before tax was between 38k (grad school) to 100k (last 2 years, Westchester). We had 2 small children (babysitter, day care, afterschool, private school…). We also traveled. Granted, we lived in subsidized place for the first half of the time (1/2 usual rent, University), afterwards it was steer and clear. It is possible to do. Everything is possible to do. Here, in US, lots of things are considered as “having to give up”. What helped us – we never got used to most of “US life” to begin with. But – my point is, figure out the exact reason you want to move – and if you’re willing to stick with it. Oftentimes (and I am not saying always, or almost so) youth friendships fade, and while love for relatives doesn’t go away, living too close puts a strain on relationships. I think at 20-something we, for the most part, simply have no clue what we want in life. So, if both of you agree you need to move, tighten the belt and move. Just don’t treat it as a dream that will never fail. Be ready to face dissapointments and another move, along with financial strains. Which, by the way, are not the end of the world. Just manage better:)
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There are a lot of other places that are beautiful areas which cost a lot less to live in than New York City. For example I was recently talking to a lawyer who lives near Miami, FL. He said he had dinner with a friend who is part of an NYC power couple making in excess of $800K who owns a $3.2 million penthouse. He probably makes 1/4 to 1/3 of that – which is hardly bad, but less than he could be making in New York City. His conclusion was that his life was better in Florida.
There are lots of smaller cities dotted around this country with much lower costs of living than New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, and the rest. Speaking as someone in a high cost of living area with no debt and a good income stream who is looking with extreme nervousness at a housing market where the average detached home sells for $621K and an inexpensive 1 bedroom place to rent costs you $1300/mo (not including any utilities but water), I’d say look elsewhere.
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I think you should decide where to live based entirely on non-financial factors, like being near friends and family and enjoying your surroundings.
I am also in the middle of very aggressively paying down six figures of student loans. I am a proponent of delaying lots of things to get out of debt (we are not saving for retirement or buying a home until the loans are gone, for example, and our emergency fund is a mere $1,000 – we’re basically doing the Dave Ramsey plan).
There are three areas of life where I wouldn’t let financial goals influence my decisions: when to get married, when to have kids, and where to live. I feel that those three things are so central to quality of life that your finances should be planned around them, and not the other way around.
Also, congratulations on being in such great financial shape so early in life!
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IMHO, you should not move yet. Find a job that pays better at your destination then move.
If the cost of living is going to rise, then you need more income to help with that. Meanwhile, pay down your debt and keep looking for better opportunity. Don’t get tie down with your company.
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This is the sort of issue my wife and I are struggling with to some extent. Where we are now is not where we want to be, but we don’t hate it, and the career prospects here are very good for me at the moment. Despite all of that, we may very well move in the next 1-2 years depending on how life turns out.
In your case, it’s obvious you don’t like where you are at all, but you’re struggling with the financial impact of making a move that big. Here’s what I would suggest doing:
1. Save the Difference in Current vs Expected Living Expenses.
Take your rent, utilities etc and add it all up for the month. Then do a bit of digging and get an estimate of how much more it would cost in NYC (or wherever else you want to go). Take the difference between the two numbers and start saving it. Build up a 12-18 month difference fund. This way, when you’re ready to move, living expenses aren’t going to be a huge strain for the first year or so.
2. Save The Equivalent of 6 Months of Your Husband’s Take-Home Pay
While you may be able to transfer jobs, it sounds like he may not be so lucky. To give you a buffer, put away 6 months of his take-home pay into another savings account. While you may be able to live extra frugal on just your income, essentially having his income for another half year can help the transition a lot. This gives him a good cushion of time in which to find new work.
3. Reduce Your Student Loan Payments For a Short Time
You’re paying down those loans at a really aggressive rate. If you’re dead-set on moving, reduce your payments for a short while to fund the difference and salary accounts. As soon as you hit those goals though, go back to your current payments.
I personally feel it’s far more important to be happy than to have a lot of money. That said, if you’re in a position to make the transition smoother and more secure in financial terms, I highly suggest doing so. Moving that distance and making that big of a life adjustment will be very expensive beyond your new housing costs.
It may mean waiting a year or two, but moving with some security will help immensely. When I made my drastic career/location move, I went deeper into debt and it impacted my life for years. The next time I move, I’m going to be in a much better position.
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Also… if you haven’t yet, read Your Money or Your Life! It will help you plan for your decision.
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My support network is a HUGE priority to me (even bigger than money and I love money, lol), so I’d move. It all depends on what’s your top priority. If you crave debt freedom like a monkey craves a banana, than you should stay put. If you think you’d be a lot happier with your friends and family, get packing, lol.
Good luck with this very tough decision!
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OMG!!!! DON’T DO IT!!!!!
I live in the greater NYC area and let me tell you–my husband makes well over 6 figures and we still struggle!!!!! Unless you are a millionaire, you will always struggle here. Everything costs more around here, EVERYTHING. Gas, groceries, eating out, shopping, EVERYTHING. Any activities for future children cost an arm and a leg. We are looking to move elsewhere just so we can afford a HOUSE!!!!
Also, if you have that much debt, believe me, you will struggle here. Your cost of living will SHOOT up. UPstate NY is a whole different ball park—if you can get a job upstate and start his company there, I’d look there if I were you. IThica is pennies to the dollar to live, but if you have never lived in NYC area, look very very hard before you leap.
and yes, it is cultured, and there is lots of fun stuff to do–but here’s a newsflash–you need the disposable income to DO THOSE THINGS. Most people who do those fun things do so out of net income they shouldn’t be using and that’s why most people in NYC don’t own a home–who the hell has half a million in the bank to put down on a house?
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Stay put, pay down your debt. I’ve lived in NYC – my favorite city in the world – but you will hemorrhage money there. It’s relentless. It’s one thing to know this on paper, another to live it.
Moving for children you don’t have yet only adds to the considerable costs of them before they are even born. Have you calculated how much it would cost to move (including a deposit, utility set-up, furnishings)? The expenses of moving alone could knock you off your debt repayment track.
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In agreement with others, it is quite difficult to move once you have lived in a city and begun making friends, professional connections, etc. If you don’t like where you are, move once you complete grad school.
However, as one who lives in a high cost of living area, be careful about choosing such a location. The paychecks rarely make up the difference.
Consider all the things you want in your life. A house, children, travel, additional education, being debt free for life, living near family, raising chickens. Whatever. Now realize that you may get half of them and start deciding what is really important.
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It sounds like you’re turning this move into a fairy tale- you will live without a car, yet take frequent car trips to visit family, magically start exercising more, etc. If you don’t want to live in Phoenix, don’t live there. But if neither of you has lived in NYC before, it’s going to be a culture shock. You will have to make some huge lifestyle changes to be able to live there and still save enough to cover your loan payments. I would definitely move, but I would settle somewhere temporary for a year or so before making up your mind about the area you really want to live in. Don’t go in blind.
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It sounds like the only real reason you want to move is to be closer to family. OK. Have you considered other non-NYC locations that might fit the bill? Depending on what kind of engineering you do, there are jobs in NY and outside the City. Since you don’t have alot of time invested in your current employer, maybe you should start looking for jobs that are much closer to your family.
And keep in mind — if you want to visit NYC its not a big effort to do so.
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I live in NYC (Astoria, and as Elizabeth says below, Astoria really is great! Cheaper than Manhattan, but very convenient), and I think you can make it work, particularly if you worked out your living situation so you didn’t have to own a car at all. You’ll make more out here because salaries are generally higher. You would have to sacrifice space (maybe go to a one-bedroom instead of a two) at first, but it could be worth it. As for the student loan debt, I’d maybe back off paying it down “aggressively” and just pay the regular payment.
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I think you need to reframe your thinking. Don’t ask whether you should move to NY, but rather how you can make it happen. That said, NYC is not one of those cities you want to be broke in. What good is being around all the culture if you can’t afford to participate in any of it.
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You sound kind of miserable in AZ. I would vote for finishing the degree and moving with a secure job with your present company ideally. And just in case kids don’t pan out, don’t plan your entire future lives around them.
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Can you get a relocation package if you transfer with your engineering firm to the East coast? Have you considered looking for a new job on the East coast?
I just moved from Texas to Maryland for work. The relo package covered my up front expenses and I did get a ‘cost of living adjustment’, which I thought was extremely cushy, but then MD charges state Taxes that TX doesn’t, so I’m pretty much breaking even.
Sounds like your home is on the East Coast, so I would say move, but it also sounds like you have lots of time to figure out the most cost effective way to do so. Even if it’s pay less on your student loans for a bit, so you have a nice cash cusion to cover the many expenses associated with moving (deposits, car registration in your new state, restocking the pantry, utility deposits….so many little things!)
Good luck to you both!
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Family should always come first. 14 years ago I turned down a job offer that required a 4 hour round trip commute,and chose to work from home. This choice has cost me any advancement opportunities, but I rarely miss any family events. I have had family members move away from our area, and I miss them terribly. Visiting a few times a year is not the same as being there for each other
It seems that you have developed very sound money habits, so a change in location may require an adjustment but one you can handle. Good luck.
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I live in Astoria, NY. Groceries are cheap (& there’s access to farmers’ markets! Not as crazy as the Ithaca one, but still). Rent is affordable. Transportation is no more expensive than the cost of a monthly Metrocard ($104). Jobs are plentiful (hey, it’s NYC). With the exception of the 1 1/2 feet of snow on the ground, it’s perfect.
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If you decide to stay where you are, put down some roots. Don’t live an isolated life for the time you are there. Yes – work hard. Yes – pay down debt. But yes – have a life too! You do only get this time once – where others might say that means just go have fun in the short term…Use it to get great momentum so life can be not bogged down by debt for the long term. My husband and I took a year where we lived just on his income and put my income toward debt. Now that we have a 4 month old I’m able to be home with him with little to no effect on how we live. Putting the effort in before helped us to prepare. Even if you have a great career now and a master’s degree, you have no idea how having kids might change your plans. It’s better to be prepared instead of feeling shackled to having to work, instead of wanting to/choosing to work.
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NC…one of the greatest kept secrets on the east coast. extremely cheap cost of living (comparable to where you are now), green, trees, full seasons, mountains, oceans, cheap easy amtrak ticket into new york…
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Someone said don’t move for kids you don’t have yet. Well, coming from someone who has one in elementary school and been thinking about a move, the decision to move gets harder as they get older, are doing well in school and making friends. If you think its hard to leave from your own friends like another person stated you can’t imagine what it’s like to try to think about how it’s going to affect the kids. We made the decision to move closer to family before we had kids and before our parents got too old to travel to us. Since we couldn’t afford the move ourselves, my husband was lucky enough to get a promotion and transfer with his company back to his home state. That said, you still have time to wait a couple of years to pay more down before you actually leave and who says you actually have to live right in NYC. There are many states surrounding it and many have train service into the city. It’s less stressful to be able to hop in a car to see someone than “have to” take a flight.
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Like other commenters have mentioned – it’s not simply a financial decision. Since it’s also (probably largely) an emotional decision – I say do it sooner rather than later.
Recently I moved from the Midwest (inexpensive!) to the L.A. area (quite expensive!) The reasons were many. But I made the move, in a fully loaded pickup truck hauling pretty much all of my life’s possessions, during the exact month in ’08 when gasoline hit it’s all-time high, drove 2,500 miles, then promptly landed in the state which would soon develop one of the highest unemployment rates in the country during the nation’s financial crisis. Since then, my fiancee and I have dealt with enough financial nightmares for a book.
Here’s the kicker: would I do it all again? That’s non-negotiable to me. Absolutely (for reasons that have little to do with money).
The moral: you can try to time your life to a degreee. But you owe it to yourself to be happy. Sometimes that requires putting away the spreadsheets, calendars, and calculators and just going for it.
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My two cents worth:
I am 24, and am Electrical engineer with a Masters Degree (I actually got my Masters in Cornell in Ithaca, so I can totally understand you wanting to go there occasionally), I have about 1.5 yrs of work ex., one year of which was in the NE. I am now working in Houston.
If I were you, I’d focus on finishing my degree and move to a lower cost city, like Houston/Austin, where most kinds of jobs are still available and where cost of living is much lower than in the ‘big’ cities. I love Houston because it gives me all the different options that a NYC would, but at the same time I don’t have to put up with the high rents and expenses that go with living there. I agree, Houston isn’t as pretty as New York is, is more spread out, requires some adjustments to get used to, but I am a lot happier knowing that I am able to save more while being here than I was able to while in the NE.
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i agree with #22- the cost of living in nyc is higher but you make more $$ just by being in the city.
i’ve lived in brooklyn about 5 years as a starving artist, and while it’s possible to squeak by, i’m certainly not going on any big shopping trips on fifth ave. once you do get here it’s easier to stay though- i’ve found my rent & cost of living has declined since my first newbie apartment. personally it’s worth it to me to be broke all the time and still live in brooklyn. i know i could save money moving back with my parents in the suburbs, but dear god why? i’m young and resilient, if anytime is the time to be poor and happy it’s now.
many of my friends have “stayed behind” to save on money and bills or whatever, and i agree with #9- it’s become harder and harder for them to leave as the years go by. i tried to get a friend hooked up with a job, but he just had a baby and thought about staying… then got married and had 3 more. he’s not going anywhere. similar situations for other friends- the longer they stay in their “interim” location, the more situated they get.
good luck either way. new york is a great and inspiring place to live, poor or rich.
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Stay in Phoenix, get super agressive about paying off your loans, pile up a bunch of cash both for emergencies and to move. Emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses in the *new* location.
THEN move.
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In my opinion you both are way ahead of your generational cohort regarding financial responsibility and I believe you will do well economically wherever you live. That said, go with your gut. Choose what will make you happiest and not what you think you “should” do. Time spent establishing friends, being with extended family, and developing community relationships in an area you plan to raise your kids will pay off in huge intangible dividends for years to come. I say don’t be short sighted and stuck on the monthly balance sheet. Enjoy your life. Best of luck to you.
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If you really don’t like where you’re living what are you waiting for, move. As others have said, it gets harder the longer you stay. In many ways, now is a time to move before you have kids or long term commitments.
Other than you having a job in NYC to move to, I’m not seeing the requirement to move to NYC to be near Ithaca or within a “day’s drive” from NYC. Philedelphia and Baltimore, even DC are a day’s drive away (six hours or so) from Ithaca, and 3 to 4 hrs from NYC. Not to mention other areas in NY like Rochester, Syracuse, and Binghamton.
With respect to university positions. I will say that the SUNY system is hurting a bit from what I hear given the NY state is trying to bleed everyone tax wise and shrink the univerisities budgets, but that may not prevent you from getting a job there or at one of the many private universities in the area you might be looking at. I’m just thinking promotions in that area might be limited.
So the upshot, my take would be move to NYC or somewhere back closer to family if that’s what you want to try. Do it now while you are young and can recover if the costs are too great. If you find you don’t like it or it’s too expensive, you can move somewhere cheaper and recover. Best of luck.
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Why don’t you split the difference? Move half way to NYC to a place with weather more to your liking that’s affordable, too. Dallas and/or Chicago come to mind.
Then you can reach your goals in an environment more to your liking. In a few years, pick up and move the rest of the way to NY.
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Depends how much you hate living in Phoenix and how much you’d love living in NYC. I mean, you could even live somewhere with a lower cost of living than Phoenix and save even more money but to what end? You could live in a really cheap studio in a horrible part of Phoenix to be able to save even more money. You could take public transportion instead of driving. You could eat just beans and rice and on and on. But is the monetary gain worth living such a lifestyle? Life is more than about trying to maximize the amount of money one has.
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My husband and I are in a VERY similar situation, except we have no debt, make about $25k more a year, and have more in savings ($100k in cash, $45k in retirement accounts). We live in Ohio and are looking to move to the metro Boston area in the next year, since we both hate Ohio and want to move closer to family and friends. My husband’s company is also planning to transfer him in the next year to their Boston-area office. I, on the other hand, work for a local firm with only one office. However, my field is in demand and I am sure I can find a job in the Boston area. My concerns about moving to Boston are the high cost of housing, the terrible snow in the winter, the traffic, and me finding a job as great as the one I currently have. However, we’re almost certainly going to do it even though it’ll push back our retirement a few years due to the cost of housing.
Happiness>Money in this situation.
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If/when you do decide to move, just make the financial sacrifices necessary to keep your expenses as low as possible — make that your trade-off for getting to move to a more expensive, more desirable place. The main area that this applies to is housing. If you move, expect to take a huge it in the quality of your housing so that you can keep rent low. Get a one-bedroom apartment instead of your current two-bedroom, and make other sacrifices in terms of amenities and neighborhood to ensure that your rent in your new area is as close to your current rent as possible.
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Let me say up front that I’m someone who’s moved several states away with significant debt, no savings and no job prospects before, so take what I say with a grain of salt…
While I think that focusing on paying off student loans early is great, there’s got to be a balance in life. If you’re really that miserable in Phoenix, you’ll find a way to make it work in NYC. It may not be the smartest possible financial move, but if we all made every decision based only on the financial ramifications, we’d be a bunch of boring, unhappy people.
It sounds like Phoenix is an unhealthy environment for you anyways (pollution, travel/driving stress, etc), so don’t forget to factor in the impact that staying in that situation has on your health as well.
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Since you are already married, this is an easy one. You have already thrown away any chance of having any fun with your life, so go ahead and suck it up in a boring, miserable town with horrible weather like Phoenix and work as hard as you can to pay off your debt. Once you have paid down your debt and are ready to get divorced, and really start living your life, you can go and relocate to a more exciting locality where you can live it up.
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Ithaca and upstate New York is a ridiculously cheap place to live. Don’t think New York City. There are tons of small cities and bedroom communities up there that will be cheaper to live in than where you are now. Do a little research and you’ll find gems even in the vicinity of downtrodden cities like Utica and Syracuse.
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JD I really can’t understand your advice at all. Moving to a new (undesired) place that is just as cheap to live but in the middle will set them further behind financially (moves are expensive remember) and will not increase their happiness at all (sure they will get out of one bad place, only to replace it with other things they don’t like about the new place that is not where they want to be, and still have to travel long distance to see family, Ithaca, etc.). I vote to move where you want to be. Sure you will find there are flaws once you arrive but at least then you will not just be California Dreamin’ (or New York City dreamin’, in this case).
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I agree with those saying you should stay put. $120,000 is an absolutely enormous pile of student loan debt, especially if it didn’t come with a medical degree. If you move now, you’re going to chip away at that debt for decades, and it’s going to impact every decision for the rest of your life (trying to buy a house, deciding when to have kids, wrestling with trying to save for retirement, etc.).
Stay where your expenses are low, and tough it out for 3-5 years, working down that debt. Maybe it doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to you, because you’ve been watching it grow over time, but for someone just reading this for the first time, looking at your situation from the outside, that’s a ridiculous amount of student loan debt. That should be your top priority.
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Being from Phoenix, I’d be offended if what she said wasnt mostly true…
On topic, I agree with #9. The longer you stay, the less chance you ever have of leaving.
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Just a quick thought, from someone probably headed to a situation like yours. (My SO is a medical resident, and next June will see us moving somewhere for a 3-year fellowship, location as yet undetermined, but further from friends and family than we are now. As you might imagine, we also have serious student loans. I see our situation as coming with the territory for the career he’s chosen, and I’m fine with that. I’m looking forward to an adventure in a new city, actually).
I’d like to suggest that you take out “The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous, and Broke” by Suze Orman.
Although sometimes Suze’s blanket advice doesn’t hold water for everyone, in this book I think she does a great job of tailoring solutions for the recent grad, no-money-yet, big-school-debt crowd. It was written in 2006ish, so while some of the info on interest rates and such is out of date, it still has great strategies and info. I’d credit it with really helping me sort out retirement savings.
Finally, Suze always says, people first, then money, then things. Your situation sounds to me like a people-first one, and you are looking for permission to make that choice over a money-focused one. I say go for it.
P.S. 3% is an enviable interest rate, and while I admire your drive to pay it off, keeping that debt won’t cost you much financially, but it may have opportunity cost.
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I’m strongly in the move the East Coast camp. Life is short and you should be where you want to be. I made a big move a few years ago (although to a lower cost of living city) to be closer to my family and it’s been the best thing I’ve ever done.
It sounds as though you are careful with your money so I trust you will make good decisions after the move. Finish your Masters, and keep paying down as much debt as possible, but then get out of there. It is great that you will be able to make the move with one job already set.
I’m with @Bogey, it will only get harder to make the move. It is so easy to let momentum take hold and stay living where you do not want to be. Good luck!
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Life is short, you sound like very responsible and smart individuals. You can stay a little longer and pay down more debt but it sounds like if you are making a huge emotional sacrifice. If you can still find a way to pay off your debt, shift things around a bit, your move closer to the big city and family may be optimization of your now, the present is just as important. We tend to live a little too much in the future, balance is what guarantees that you are not too hard on yourself now. I am not saying to go on a shopping spree and forget about saving. Once you can find jobs that cover the cost of living increase, go for it. On the bright side you always have more job opportunities in the bigger cities in case you should be laid off. It will work out for the best in the end, either way.
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If you like your employer, take the opportunity to get a transfer to the new office. It may never come up again and you may not be happy in another job. Your housing cost increase won’t be huge, and it seems that it would balance out by not needing 2 cars (if that’s the case) or buying flights to visit family.
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