College Is a Big, Fat, Hairy Rip-Off! (But Save for It Anyway)
Published on - March 9th, 2011 (by Robert Brokamp) This is a guest post from Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the adviser for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service. He also has a newly reinvigorated blog, and you can have your day interrupted once or twice by his Twittering. Robert contributes one new article to Get Rich Slowly every two weeks.
A few weeks ago, the proprietor of this establishment (J.D. “The letters in ‘Get Rich Slowly’ can be rearranged to spell ‘The Sly Cowgirl’” Roth) asked me to address a reader’s question — specifically, how should a parent save for college (perhaps because I once wrote a book on the topic, though it’s now outdated). But first, let me say this:
College costs too much, it saddles young people with too much debt, and it forces students to “learn” things they’ll soon forget — and it won’t matter because it wouldn’t help them further their careers anyhow.
As reported by InsideHigherEd.com, a new book (Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses) finds that 36% of students “did not demonstrate any significant improvement in learning” over four years of college. The authors (themselves professors) write that, for many undergrads, “drifting through college without a clear sense of purpose is readily apparent.”
Do you want to pay $80,000 to $200,000 for that?
Because that’s how much it’ll cost, assuming the fruit of your loins graduates in four years (only 53% of students graduate within six years). According to the College Board, it costs an average $20,339 a year for in-state tuition, room, board, textbooks, personal expenses, and transportation. For the average private school, that figure is $41,192. To be fair, some of these costs would still be incurred if kids didn’t go to college; they still have to eat, board, transport, and read (I hope). But they could do it much more cheaply on their own. Consider textbooks. The average student spends more than $1,000 on these annually updated tomes, because the student has to pay $50 to $100 for the most recent edition. Only people in college pay that much for a book.

Yes, many students get “aid.” But much of that is in the form of loans. Here’s a shocker: The value of all student loans now exceeds all credit card debt. Twenty-somethings are beginning their careers with thousands of dollars of debt that has to be paid back with low-person-on-the-totem-pole salaries (assuming they can even find a job).
Here’s the problem: College costs lack the normal market-based price controls. If you’re told you need something, and someone is willing to lend you the money to get it, and you’re told it’s a great “investment,” then you’ll do it — regardless of the price. The government wants to help, too, with grants, low-rate loans, and tax benefits. That’s all very well-intentioned, but it’s another reason why colleges can jack up prices and get away with it.
According to James Altucher (who’s passionate and articulate about what a scam college has become):
College costs have historically gone up much faster than inflation. Since 1978, cost of living has gone up three-fold. Medical costs, much to the horror of everyone in Congress, has gone up six-fold. And college education has gone up a whopping tenfold. This is beyond the housing bubble, the stock market bubble, any bubble you can think of.
Altucher also takes on the argument that college is a great investment. Yes, people with college degrees earn more over their lifetimes. But if a person invested the cost of college and stayed away from the Ivory Tower, she might have more than the person with the B.A. or B.S.
Save Anyway
Now that I got that off my chest, the truth is I have a student in college now, and I have 529 savings accounts for my other three children (more on 529s later). Like it or not, many professions require a college degree. Plus, it can be a great experience and all that. So if you’ve procreated, then you should save for your creation’s education. However, first make sure you’re saving enough for your own retirement, as I explain in this video I did for LifeTuner (AARP’s very hip website for the younger crowd):
(Quick summary: A kid can always find a way to pay for school. However, if you reach your 60s or 70s without enough retirement savings, you won’t be able to retire. There’s no such thing as a geezer scholarship. Plus, you can use some of the money in your retirement accounts to pay for college.)
Which finally brings us to the reader question:
My wife and I are expecting our first child this summer. In an effort to stay ahead of the game, I’d like to start saving for his or her college education. A 529 plan seems like the obvious choice here, but I know little about them.
What are the pros and cons to this type of account? Are there other options I should consider instead? How do I choose a reasonable amount to save so that I’m unlikely to end up either coming up quite short when it’s time for school, or overshooting and having lots of money left over in there? One final question: Can I start such a savings account before the child’s actually born?
Indeed, the 529 account is the obvious — and, in my opinion, best — choice. The programs are sponsored by states, who hire financial-services firms to run them. There are two flavors: savings plans and prepaid plans. I won’t spend much time on the latter — which allow you to pay for a future education at somewhere close to today’s prices — since most states don’t offer a prepaid plan, and many have experienced financial difficulties. Choosing a prepaid plan might be a good idea if:
- Your kids will go to a state school in your state, and
- Your state’s plan is on solid financial ground.
For more on prepaid plans, read this Smart Money article (which also mentions a private-school option).
The Pros and Cons of the 529
529 savings plans are like any investment account in that you contribute as much as you can, on a monthly or irregular basis (though most plans have modest minimums and all have huge maximums — from $235,000 to $380,000).
Here are the benefits of a 529 savings plan:
- The money grows tax-free as long as it’s used for qualified higher-education expenses at any qualified institution — in your state or elsewhere (that includes the overwhelming majority of schools in the U.S., and many in other countries as well).
- Some states offer benefits to residents who participate in the state plan. For example, here in the great Commonwealth of Virginia, I can deduct $4,000 per account annually that I contribute to my kids’ plans on my state (but not federal) income tax return. Thus, if you’re interested in a 529, start by investigating your state’s plan. However, you don’t have to choose your state’s plan, so if it doesn’t offer compelling benefits and the plan is subpar (e.g., too expensive), look at the plans offered by other states.
- The investment choices vary by plan, but most are generally low-cost mutual funds, and most offer age-based portfolios that are more aggressive when kids are in the single digits (owning more stocks than bonds), but gradually get more conservative (all on their own — no rebalancing required!) as the Big Day gets closer.
- The assets in a 529 are considered property of the account owner (usually a parent or grandparent), and not the student. This helps when it comes to determining financial aid since assets in the student’s name have a more negative impact on aid eligibility. Also, the kid can’t decide to take the money and blow it all in Amsterdam.
- When you open an account, you have to name the beneficiary, which is usually the kid who will eventually go to college. However, if she/he/it decides not to, the account can be transferred to another qualified relative. This is actually how you can begin saving in a 529 before your belly of joy is born. Open an account with yourself as both the owner and the beneficiary, and then transfer the account sometime after your offspring is womb-sprung.
Now, the not-as-good stuff:
- If you use the money for anything other than qualified expenses, you’ll pay income taxes and a 10% penalty on any earnings (though not the amount you contributed).
- You can only change the investment choice once a year. No biggie, really, but disappointing for you market-timers, and nerve-wracking during a crash (as in 2008).
- You can invest only in mutual funds and, in some plans, exchange-traded funds (ETFs). If you prefer individual stocks (i.e., shares of individual companies), the 529 may not be for you.
- “529” is a boring name. Boring! It’s named after a tax code, just like 401(k) and 403(b). But what would you expect from a country that names the mansion in which the most powerful person in the world lives, the “white house”?
How Much to Save
Determining how much to save is difficult, because it depends on future investment returns and college-cost inflation. However, a place to start would be to find out the current cost of attending a school your future Einstein is likely to attend. Then, fiddle with a few online calculators, such as the ones from the College Board and Savingforcollege.com. If you’re asked for investment return and inflation assumptions, choose 6% for both (you can ratchet down the former and/or increase the latter if you want to play it safer).
Finally, the absolute best source of information about 529 plans is Savingforcollege.com. You’ll learn plenty about the general rules, but also the particulars about each state’s plan. But hurry — you’ll need to start saving soon to afford a big, fat, hairy college rip-off.

Kris and J.D., back in the Olden Days when college was cheaper
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After putting $ in a 529 for the past 6 yrs we’ve stopped and put the $ to the mortgage instead. My reasoning is if we do that we can have the house paid off by the time they go to college (and be able to pay a significant portion – if not all from the $ we used to pay the mortgage with). Also thinking about aid – the 529 is counted (as a parental asset) but house equity is not counted at all. Our other plan is to meet with financial aid people when our oldest starts high-school to see if there are any other changes we should make.
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#40 Jen
I remember those FAF’s from way back in the 80′s when I went to college. My parents expected contribution one year was a whopping 32 dollars, which even then was far less than 10 percent of the tuition. That didn’t mean my college didn’t expect me to take out lots of loans to supplement the financial aid grants.
I have heard that some 50k schools like Princeton are aiming to have their students graduate without loans and that’s wonderful, but we’re still not going to pay 30k or 40k just because some financial aid guy thinks we could afford it.
If our kids don’t want to go to state school then they’ll need to work hard and get a scholarship to a school that does like Villanova or Drexel. We have told our children we are maxing out our contribution to their college educations at whatever state school tuition happens to be the years they’re attending college.
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Could we retitle the first half of the post “Kids need to work harder to get their money’s worth out of college?” My undergrad was extremely expensive and I’ll be paying for that for a couple more years still. But I got a TREMENDOUS amount out of it – I am an excellent writer, analytical thinker, researcher and well-versed in several of the fields I studied, which contributed directly to my current career. If 36% of students don’t demonstrate advancement in learning, that is 1000% their fault and I feel not even a little bad for them.
I also disagree that there are no market price controls for college. They’re distorted by subsidies and loan structures, sure, but at the end of the day, a lot of people line up down the block to pay full price at expensive schools. The demand is there.
I realize this is primarily about the 529 and savings, but college is a financial AND mental investment. You need to put in both to get the full result, and a lot of people don’t bother with the latter half.
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I went into the military straight out of highschool. It was `peacetime’, so there was no GI bill, but I fully contributed to a matching education fund that gave me $2 for every $1 I saved.
After my service, I took those health care admin skills (my military work) and worked 24-32 hours a week in that field while I went to a full time Health Info Technician program for 2 years at a community college. I worked my butt off, had the VA education benefit dollars to help, and graduated with my A.A.S./Certification without a nickel of debt. I paid cash for everything, and had no credit card.
After graduation, I moved upward in my career, and finished my B.S. using employee tuition assistance. I didn’t finish my B.S. until my mid 30s, but that didn’t matter because I had a lot of experience in the field and had that crucial vocational education and certification. Again, no debt, no student loans.
My husband has no college, but does have extensive OTJ training & certifications, and he now has many years of experience. He is regularly contacted by head hunters, and just accepted a fantastic new position with a company that is experiencing explosive growth. This is in the high tech telecomm field, which is experiencing a crucial shortage of experienced engineers & technicians. New company is paying for even more certification & training for my hubby.
You CAN find good work, good pay, and a great career without getting sucked into crippling debt. If you’re smart and willing to work hard, there are lots of options out there.
I think it’s fantastic if you can help your kids with school, but think outside the box – the 4-5 year university plan isn’t the only way to go.
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Well, college was great for my husband and I, and we are fairly recent grads. I earned a BS in chemistry from a well-regarded state school. My first job out of college paid 50k per year. My husband earned his PhD in theoretical physics, and he makes 80k per year. I realize that personal anecdotes are not statistics (stats class was useful!), but hey, that’s what the comments section is for.
Needless to say, we could not have done our college labs in our garage! Particle accelerators aren’t exactly DIY. Organic lab would have looked like a meth lab! We both very much enjoyed the liberal arts portion of our degrees, but you get out what you put in.
We both paid for our entire education, room, board, and textbooks ourselves. We worked part time during the school year, over full-time in the summer, donated plasma, etc. I graduated with 16k in debt, my husband with 40k. Not too bad!
I’m not sure parents are doing their kids a favor by paying for college. When you don’t have to work for something, you take it for granted. My personal experience with people whose parents paid for school wasn’t positive. They were for the most part quite spoiled, and weren’t taking full advantage of the experience.
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Private, out-of-state college is a big fat, hairy rip-off however your local public college and community colleges are expensive but worth it.
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“Can someone explain what I’m missing here?”
This is regarding the question of whether it’s better to save for college in a taxable account and take a tax deduction on any tuition paid.
I think that’s a great question, and one I hadn’t really considered. I do know that, in our situation, my wife and I earn more than the maximum income for deducting educational expenses. Assuming that wasn’t the case in your situation, I’d wonder if there is a maximum allowed deduction in a given year, and whether or not un-deducted expenses can be carried forward. I might also be concerned that, considering the current economic and political climate, if educational deductions will be less generous in the future than they are now. Rules for 529′s, of course, could always become more stringent (income limits on contributions, perhaps), but it’s probably a safer bet that the balances already in them would be effectively “grandfathered” in some way.
Finally, it depends on your state, but like Robert pointed out, many states allow deductions on contributions. In this case, the 529 becomes a clear winner over other tax-advantaged vehicles (Roth, 401k) because state taxes are paid neither on the contributions nor on the distributions.
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Wow, this is an excellent post. You really lay out the hard truth of the matter. I’m on the verge of finishing a Ph.D., but I’m still paying for the first semester of college! This post reminds me to get serious about planning ahead for my younger kids, but also thinking through alternatives to traditional 4-year colleges for seeking out an enjoyable, viable career. Thanks for the eye-opening post.
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How about college here in Mexico? My husband goes to one of the top public universities in the country, which has tons of internships, business building programs and great resources… and palm trees haha
Cost? $200 a semester.
Not for everybody (obviously), but you’ll come out of it with tons of experience in your field and fluent Spanish.
I went to a well-known private university here in Mexico for about $6000 a year in tuition. Not sure how a degree here is seen in the rest of the world, but I’ve interned at several large luxury resorts (thanks to contacts at my school), I got a job right out of college at the largest travel agency in the country, and I have fluent, almost native Spanish thanks to all-Spanish classes… can’t beat that for a resume
Again, obviously not for everybody, but for me it has opened many, many doors.
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I agree with the commenters who say that some students shouldn’t be in college — they’re immature, or indecisive, or simply not interested but there anyway because they’re SUPPOSED to be.
I had one year at age 18 and things went very wrong, but eventually and went on to have a newspaper journalism career. About 30 years later, after things went very wrong again, I went back to school. Didn’t pay a dime thanks to work-study, grants and scholarships.
Right now I’m choosing NOT to work a square job. But here’s the difference I would see were I to be applying: I got decent jobs in my 20s without a degree but were I to have looked for work in my late 40s (or now) without a degree I’d likely be in a world of hurt.
Incidentally, I myself saw students who were just goofing off. But I saw plenty who were working hard both at their studies and part- or full-time jobs.
And: I wrote about this subject for MSN Money, “Finish college with zero debt”:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/finish-college-with-zero-debt.aspx
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To the future medical student who was complaining about the “irrelevant” classes they had to take for their undergrad degree:
Those liberal arts classes and science are absolutely critical for you to be a decent medical doctor. I’m a prof at a med school and we don’t want tech-heads for doctors who can’t think their way out of an ethical conundrum, contribute to biomedical research, or communicate. If all you want a good paying job as payback for your hard work, please take your “useless degree” and go into some other profession.
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Just like everything else in the world college is what you make it to be. At 18 I was sure I wanted to be a teacher. 3 years later I realized teachers what teachers made and that I did not want to teach! A year later I decided I mat like nursing. I went for a one year degree as an Lpn and loved it. Now at 28 I will graduate with my Bsn in July 2011! I went from an Lpn to Rn and now Bsn. I think an educatation is a valuable tool but must be customized to each person. Because I switched majors big time I have $15,000 in student loans current licked in at 4%. We just paid off our credit cards and now plan to attack the student loans. I currently reside in Florida and work for a nonprofit making $60,000 before taxes. After my Bsn I will get maybe $2000 more at my job, but more doors will open for different positions elsewhere. Now my husband has his class a commercial truck driving license, class was a month long and $5,000. After 4 years doing it he makes the same amount I do. So college can work for some and may not work for others.
Side note I have a friend with $60,000 in student loans and she now has a bachelors degree in arceology which she has yet to find employment with
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I am astounded at how much some people are saying they went into debt to get their undergrad degrees. I know lots of young adults who recently finished college with only a little debt.
There’s lots you can do to minimize college costs. State Univ’s offer great value. 2 years of community college, working part time during the school year and full time during the summer, and/or living at home, does a huge amount to keep your costs down. Also, “study abroad” quarter/year is a pricey luxury, and is not by any means a necessity.
I wish people would stop bashing college in general, when what they really want to say is they overspent for their degree.
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I agree with Life and My Finances. It is a double edged sword. The thing is, professional companies like to hire professionals. What I don’t think is right is how much you Americans have to pay for education. It is like 4x the cost Canadians have to pay which makes it so hard to afford.
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My oldest is in Grade 11, so this is a hot topic in our house these days. This is what I tell both our kids about higher education: There are two reasons to go to college/university – because you want to take something you love, or in anticipation of going into a specific career that requires it. Runner up reason – making contacts in your chosen field. Reasons that don’t cut it – the elusive and mysterious degree that guarantees a good job, or because you don’t know what else to do.
Otherwise, I advise them to learn a trade and/or the family business (which would enable them to run their own small business).
FWIW, my biggest regret is not finishing college, although I did listen to Good Will Hunting and learned a hell of a lot as an adult about business, investing, and real estate, and it only cost me a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.
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To #51–be careful with the house payoff. True, it’s not considered on the FAFSA, but house equity is most definitely considered by private colleges. Uh, they’re probably on to the fact that some of their applicants come from families with multi-millions in house equity, don’t ya think?
The FAFSA only determines eligibility for federal aid, and is only the “last word” when applying to state schools. Otherwise, the forms and formulae from the College Board are used for private financial aid.
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I think it’s worth voicing that it IS still possible to graduate from school without loans. I went to a private 4-year college and graduated (in 2007)with no debt and without my parents picking up the bill. It takes a lot of work but there are scholarships out there if you’re willing to work hard and write a lot of essays!
I’ve often wondered what I would advise my kids to do (if I had them). I don’t know if I would encourage them to take on extreme debt in the name of a college education, but I also feel that college is a very important and formative stage of life. I hope if I ever have kids I’ll be able to foot at least the majority of their college bills, but they need to earn that, too. I saw a lot of my classmates taking advantage of mom and dad’s generosity, and I think those are often the kids that don’t get much out of college.
I agree with some previous commenters – I wouldn’t trade my college years for anything. Even some debt.
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One way that I saved half a year’s worth of tuition costs was to take Advanced Placement classes in high school (math, chemistry, english), and my local community college gave me college credit for them. I was able to transfer them to the private university I started attending sophomore year, and that combined with a couple inexpensive online courses I took over the summer allowed me to graduate a semester early.
Also, my husband’s sister has discovered a great way to go to college for free (although this would probably only work if you’re homeschooled). She’s sixteen, and her local community college allows kids under 18 to take classes for free, as long as they take a qualifying test. Because she finished high school so quickly, she’ll now get almost a year and a half of free college education.
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@Coley, 57:
Thanks — I hadn’t considered the income cutoffs (we were nowhere close when we were still paying for my wife’s grad school tuition). I’d love to be above those cutoffs, and might well be by the time our kids are in college. Also, given the economic climate, they might tighten.
Also, I hadn’t considered the limits on the deduction (first $4k of expenses). It probably makes sense to save the majority in a 529 plan and hope that the balance is deductible at that time.
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I do not agree that college is a “rip off”.
Saying college is a rip off is like saying houses are rip offs. Depends where you bought, how much you paid and what you do with it.
For myself and many other people the time and money put into college is very well worth it. My degree was a bargain considering what it got me.
For some people college is not a good financial choice. That doesn’t mean its a rip off in general.
Some colleges are certainly not worth paying full sticker price. Some college degrees are not going to pay off well financially. (Bachelors in Psychology comes to mind) Some people would do better starting a business or pursuing a skilled trade. Some people don’t graduate or take 6-7 years to graduate but thats because of their own actions.
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Colleges offer different educational experiences and most of us do not know how to shop for a a college. I got lucky. I know many people today that did not get lucky.
For example, I attended a community college. My classes were small, my instructors knew my name, instructors taught, and the college provided multiple learning labs for support. I then transferred to a small private liberal arts college. My instructors were once again required to focus on teaching. Classes were small, student learning was a focus and I received a great education. For my instructors, research and publishing came after teaching.
Today I teach at a community college that is a feeder school for a state university. When students transfer to the university, they are often one of three or four hundred students in class – and the class is being taught by graduate students! One of the disadvantages of state schools is that much of their focus and mission is on research (not a bad thing) but teaching students is often a secondary notion and students can be seen as revenue stream.
This article asks us to question the value of a college education – I wonder if there is a follow-up article that would help folks determine how to chose a college?
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Yeah, I gotta disagree with this author. GRS has always been about how to pursue your goals, not preaching about what those goals should be.
Getting the most out of continuing education is a matter of career choice and self-discipline. If anything, you have far more control over the ROI than you would over a faceless mutual fund. There are certainly other educational options that people should be aware of, but I wouldn’t rule out college just because some people screw it up.
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Just in case anyone was wondering: My own position is that in general college is a great investment. I realize this isn’t true for everyone. But college graduates tend to make more than those who never go. So, while I know college is expensive, I don’t think it’s a rip off. (Plus, I’m a huge advocate of pursuing scholarships, which is one way to make college more affordable. Both Kris and I managed to pay for most of our schooling through scholarships. If your kids work hard when they’re young, college can be less expensive.)
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My husband joined the military and started his college degree while he was enlisted. He worked in the IT field while he was enlisted and got a job as a contractor doing the same type of work once he was out of the military. He was able to finish his degree in IT Management while he was a contractor using his GI BIll and tuition reimbursement through work. He didn’t have to take out any student loans and we are grateful for that. Paying for college would have been a burden if it weren’t for my husband’s military service.
I didn’t finish my four year degree, but while I was enrolled, I worked full time and got as many scholarships as I could. I left school with less than 5K in student loans.
Our son is almost 2.5 years old and we have another baby on the way. We aren’t saving any thing for their college years and don’t plan to, and we honestly do not feel bad about it. Saving for our retirement takes priority over college savings. There will always be ways for our children to get scholarships, grants, or loans, but we will all suffer if we haven’t saved enough for retirement. We do plan to help them pay for school as much as we can once they are enrolled, but we don’t have any specific funds set aside to do so. They will also have the option of joining the military and starting college and a career that way.
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@ Christy;
Ha ha, I was a graduate student instructor– I was officially a teaching assistant, though the students called me “professor” because they had no contact with anybody else. I taught on my own, wrote the exams, dealt with their personal problems during office hours, all with no support–there was supervision, but only to make sure I did things according to plan and the department’s methodoogy. I’d like to think I did a nice job, but juggling teaching and my own classes and research was very rough.
Anyway, while involved in negotiations to raise TA salaries, I was told candidly by the Provost (a very nice man, and a straight shooter) that the majority of graduate students in the humanities were admitted to the university so they could teach all the low-level courses. Yeah.
That reminds me of The Profzi Scheme
Ha ha ha ha… yes, that’s academia today.
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I teach at a hideously expensive private liberal arts college, and I can say that I too see a number of students every year who are wasting their parents’ (or their student loan) money. Kudos to Elizabeth (#14) who suggested taking a year off, and to the poster who suggested a couple of years in the army, before college. If you come in knowing what you want to get out of it, focused, and disciplined, it can be worth every penny. If you think you are just there to drink and mess around, you are wasting EVERYBODY’S time and money. And thanks to the doctor who wrote in in favor of critical thinking skills. They are crucial.
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Oh, goodness, people think about what you want and how you are going to get it.
Hubby has degree at 22, engineering, makes six figure income, retires at 57, pension, health care, you name it, he gets it.
I goof around, don’t get degree, do get culinary certification, make 22 thousand tops (in the 1980s) Flash forward, back to school complete degree, double income immediately and get retirement and other benefits.
Two kids, wonderful kids, smart with scholarships galore, both go to state university, stay home first year, then into dorms and both graduate without debt, having worked wonderful jobs on campus plus resume shining internships. We saved for both, putting away close to seventeen thousand dollars for each and my son will graduate with ten thousand still in savings. Daughter going for her associates degree in accounting technology, which will open up management positions at her work.
Save for it, test and see what skills they have in high school, promote moving towards independence and teach them from day one that everyone has a purpose in life and you are meant to find it and polish it and make your world a better place.
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Why is it, that every time paying for college or university comes up in a discussion, people immediately talk about how they payed for it, and anyone who got help from their parents just wasted it all away?
There’s this weird mentality that those who worked for it must have benefited much more than those who had help. That they worked harder and deserve their degrees more.
I’m not sure why this is, or why people keep insisting on it. I’ll admit, I had some help from my parents during my undergrad. But I also had many scholarships. I did work part-time as well as a couple of semesters of co-op. I graduated with no debt.
I’m working on my PhD right now (I did a Masters first – I’m in Canada, so a masters is a little different then in the states). I haven’t had a single bit of help from my parents since I started grad school. And I’m still debt free. And I have savings and an RRSP.
I don’t think I valued my education any less than someone who had no help from their parents or any more than someone who has never worked. I have a friend who had no help, and still got through debt free and got a great education. I have other friends whose parents helped and they all did super well. I have friends who got student loans, took out the minimum and were careful and graduated with as little debt as possible. And I have friends who wasted every single cent of their education – whether it was the student loan or their parents paying. I believe attitude matters more than the source of funding.
I fully agree with the comments before me that say university is not for everyone. I wish people would realize that going for a job in trades, or diplomas are just as good alternatives. If you hate what you’re studying, it’s not likely you’ll do well and want to do it for the rest of your life.
But, if you’re eager to learn, university can be an awesome place. And as long as your eager, where the funding comes from should not effect how well or what you can learn. The most it should do, unfortunately, is limit some of the opportunities you will have.
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bwt, really cute pic of JD and Kris!
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Sorry if this has already been asked or addressed previously, but….Can the beneficiary pay for school via loans, and then AFTER graduation, use the 529 money to pay off the loans???
The reason I’m asking is because I know several coworkers who have saved for their kids education, and their kids take it for granted…not thinking twice about the fact that they will now be able to save & buy for a home at least 10 years sooner than their debt-laden peers. Wouldn’t it be nice to secretly save for your kids education, make them think they’re going to have to pay off loans themselves (so they do all the loan calculations/repayment plan/etc etc themselves, and budget for payments once they land the job, and realize it will take forever to have money for a house downpayment), then *surprise!* you can pay it all off for them, and they will have a sense of appreciation & gratitude for what you have done for them?
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“belly of joy”? LOL!
I would have made a great electrician. However, my M.A. degree and I also make a pretty good secretary. And I don’t have to crawl under anybody’s house or up any power poles.
This is one of those debates that, even in my own head, never ends; the control freak in me says that degrees should be priced according to the average first-year salary that the average graduate is offered. The socialist says that the first two years of college should be free, because hardly anybody knows what they want to do for a career at age 18 and at least society will benefit by having a lowest common denominator of education that is not *abysmally* low. The free-marketer keeps her mouth shut because capitalism, in the case of higher education, has clearly run amok. The skeptic says that the system should be left alone and it will either collapse under its own weight or be reformed from within.
In any event, I agree with Robert. If you plan to have kids, plan to save for their college education … but not before you save for your own life after work.
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I didn’t have the luxury of having parents to pay for my college education. I paid for it myself using a GI bill. So forgive me if I find it odd that the majority of parents today feel like they are obligated to pay for their kids college education. Is it a guilt thing? I made out just fine with no college debt.
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Graduating debt free from college can be done. My siblings and I all managed to graduated debt free with minimal financial support (but lots of encouragement) from our parents. It was not easy, however I think we are all grateful that we don’t have any college debt.
#1- Lived at home at went to community college for 3 years and worked to save money. Transferred to small private school with some scholarships and worked part-time. Did extensive language training abroad. Graduated in 6.5 yrs.
#2- Attended good state school on full-ride scholarships. Worked part-time during college for expenses and had also worked 20-30 hrs per week in HS to save money for college. Took classes at community college in the summer. Traveled abroad for 6 months. Graduated in 4.5 years.
#3- Attended good state school on a combo of scholarships, grants, and working 30 hrs per week. Graduated in 4 yrs.
#4-Went to good state school but lived at home. Worked 30 hrs per week (also saved up money by working 20-30 hrs per week in HS). Graduated early in 3.5 years from AP classes taken in HS. Was able to land a job just before the economy tanked.
My advice to future college students:
1) Take as many AP classes as possible.
2) Take community college classes in summer.
3) Work to save up money in HS.
4) Apply for all the scholarships and grants you can find.
5) Don’t be afraid to go to a good state school, but make sure your program has a good reputation and hiring rate of graduates.
4) Work part-time job during college.
5) Choose a degree with tangible skills in a job market that is currently hiring (I think this one may be the most important).
6) Do internships in your field (even if you have to work for free).
6) Live at home during college if needed (or at least for a couple years to cut costs). This may mean living at home during the summer and taking a few community college classes so that you can graduated early.
It may seem tough to balance work and tough course load. It is. However, balancing a difficult schedule during college instills invaluable skills for life.
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@Jen re: Harvard’s “financial aid”
It is important to remember “financial aid” does not mean “you don’t pay it” it often means “student loans”. I just graduated and I got “financial aid” each semester and that simply meant “sign here for a loan”. Scholarships happen, it is true, but they are their own thing, often separate from your financial aid application.
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My brother is a Junior now majoring in Mechanical Engineering. So far it has been affordable because:
1. He took as many classes as he could in the local community college. (He is now attending university)
2. He continued to live at home with my parents and eats at home.
3. He bough used books, calculators, and other required materials.
4. He continues to applies for grants and scholarships.
5. He drives a reliable low mileage car.
I personally cannot imagine anyone spending more than an entry-level salary for college.
I was blessed as my parents paid for mine 100% but it was outside the US.
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Well we are doing things a little different. We are paying for the last two years of our son’s college education. Even though we had no reason to believe he may not put forth his all, my husband & I decided to take no chances. This way we feel he will definately graduate with a degree. We have seen too many of our friends children start college & drop out for various reasons.
That said our son is attending a private college, where he received a very nice academic scholarship. He does play a sport for them and if one of his grades drop to a C he is required to get a tutor to continue playing. There is no way the local university within 20 minutes of our house would have cared about his grades like this. When people hear our son attends a school two hours away when we have a very reputable state university in our backyard they are in shock. However, because of the scholarship our son will graduate from a well known private college with student loans way less than one year’s tuition at that local university.
YES, with college as with so many other things in life YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
My husband did not attend college, but has a trade. I entered the work force after high school, worked for same company for 14 years
making my way from front desk entry clerk to marketing management, but still was laid off in September 2008. I returned to school & received an Associates degree & have been able to enter the work force at the same pay level that I left it. Sooooo lucky.
We have always taught our son good money making skills, it will be interesting to see how he makes out in his life.
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I’m still paying off my student loan debt. It is some of the last of my debt, and carries a fairly low interest rate. Although it is burdensome, and one of my top priorities to pay off, I would not have my current job without having gone to college. For me, it’s been worth it. But for others, the expense has not provided a good return on invested (and leveraged)capital.
The BLS did a study recently of average salaries and unemployment rates for Americans with different levels of education. It makes it clear that education is extremely important.
But there are ways to soften the blow. Online courses, trade schools, junior colleges, and state schools can save students a bundle. Not to mention little things like working while in school and renting your text books. If you control costs in college (like in life) you can do it on a budget, and reap the benefits.
Pat
http://compoundingreturns.com
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Son- Four years at military school. Took every classes he could and graduated in the bottom part of his class with many, many hours. Now he is flying with people who did high school to flight school. Making good money, not in debt – will return for a Phd in Physics or a certificate to teach high school if he is “downsized”.
Daughter- Four years of college- paid for mostly by moi. Thirty credits. Amazing at home mom after a stint in the Air Force. Maybe will use her GI BILL- probably not.
Son in law- linguist for the Marines. Working as a contractor making more than any of us in the family ever made. No college. But what a brain.
BTW- Government would never hire him to do the job he does now(for the government) without a degree- which is downright silly! They trained him. He wants to work- even for the lower salary- but they won’t hire until he has that famous BS. It is really BS:>)
College- not a total waste if you go into a “hard science”. Otherwise….just necessary if you are in a women’s profession (social Work, teaching) or high paying one (law.medicine). Total waste for most others. Finding a good mentor is much more important in most fields.
BTW- @80- my future daughter in law’s parents did exactly what you said. They paid off all her loans last week! It was a wonderful gift. She was frugal throughout college because she was taking out all the loans and tracking the debt.
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I would agree with most of this article that college is a rip off, but a bachelor’s degree is required for most jobs. Our current unemployment rate is around 9% with it being 4-5% for college grads. If costs are an issue, why not consider an in-state junior or community college. You can have lower tuition, be in smaller classes, and not have teaching assistants teaching your 100-200 level classes. And unlike BYU once in a while we take a tour group into a student show room who is shacking up with his boyfriend/girlfriend(I don’t think those visitors ended up attending). (Author bias: I am Dean of Enrollment Management for a junior college in Colorado so I am a little biased in my view)
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As much as I hated my parents for pressuring me to study subjects that would be useful in developing a career, they were so right to do. Don’t let your kid major in comparative lit or something unless they have a concrete, feasible plan on how to support themselves upon graduation. They have the rest of their lives to compare lit or study women on their own time/dime.
If I had a child, I would be encouraging him/her to go into health care or a skilled trade.
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@80 Flipping through the internet, if it is correct, the 529 can only be used for education expenses within one year. So no old loans.
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I’m one of those kids who resents their college education. I had a great time in college, and met my husband. I worked hard through school, didn’t slack off or party, and held a job all four years. But I went in with the idea “You get through high school with good grades, you get into a good school, and you get a good job when you get out. That’s just how it works.” That’s … not at all how it works, and I really wish I knew that before wasting my time on a History degree. I love history, and I love what I learned, but I don’t love the fact that I’m now working at Walmart trying to figure out how the heck to get myself into a career without a complete do-over of college and adding to my already huge debt (which I was told wasn’t a big deal, student loans are ‘good’ debt).
I went into college with a complete lack of understanding of how college worked, how the real world worked, and what signing my name on all of those loans meant. Sure I’m kicking myself now, but I had no idea there was anything wrong when I was in school.
So all of you who got through college with no debt and it lead directly into a good career – I’m jealous.
Those of you who are saving for your kids – Please make sure they have a realistic view of college, and a plan. Even if they tell you “Yeah, there’s lots I can do with that degree, it’ll be fine.”
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Laura said:
“@Jen re: Harvard’s “financial aid”
It is important to remember “financial aid” does not mean “you don’t pay it” it often means “student loans” ”
I think Laura is right for many private schools that a lot of the financial aid can often be loans. But I don’t think that is the case with Harvard specifically. Harvard is an exception. Harvards web site says “students are not expected to take out loans”. Harvard’s endowment (pile of money) is so large that they can afford to let the poor / middle class kids go virtually free.
But Harvard is an exception. Most other Ivy’s are very generous with aid and many also waive tuition for low income folks. But many other private schools pile on the loans a lot more.
I had the choice between a private school and the state university and the private school would have ran me $4k a year more in loans just for the 1st year and that was a couple decades ago. I chose wisely and went to the state school and got a better education too.
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I think college is needed for most professions these days but people have to be smart consumers. I’ll admit, I wasn’t that smart of a consumer when I went into college. I actually had loans my first year and when I got a check in the mail from the college for more then the loans, a financial aid person told me it was “free money” and I could do whatever I want with it.
Luckily I wasn’t that stupid and paid the loans off right away. After my first semester though I was able to figure out the system. After my first year I was able to max out my roth ira, buy a flat panel tv and xbox 360, with only a summer job and no debt. I didn’t even put much effort into it, just applied for the “low hanging fruit” scholarships and grants.
Also my sister did well enough in high school to get into an Ivy League school and they just gave her a full ride, she’ll have no debt when she graduates.
If I had to take out loans(especially six figures worth!) I would not have went to college until I could find a way to pay for it or find a cheaper alternative.
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@ Valerie -
Hello, fellow Humanities refugee! The easy way out of WalMart would be getting a teaching certification, but if you don’t like working with brats, forget about it. Still– some school districts will help you pay for your certification credits or employ you while you work towards them. You might have to relocate, but hey, might be worth the trip and you get to see another part of the country.
Or you could go to gradschool on a pile of scholarships and study library science– good job prospects as I understand. I have a friend who is an archivist. You won’t live like a Hollywood star but you’ll probably get a middle-class paycheck.
Non-schooling alternatives: become a freelance writer. Your knowledge of history will give you good perspective for all sort of things. Again not guaranteed millions, and you’ll have to hustle a lot, but it’s doable.
If you like more extroverted environments, you could hire a bunch of actors and run a Renaissance Fair, ha ha ha. OK, maybe not, but the trick is to think creatively about the possible application of your studies.
I have an MA in “Latin American Literature”, which qualifies me to be a Spanish teacher at school (“hola, mi nombre es paco. ¿dónde está la biblioteca?). I hate that stuff so first I applied my research expertise to do freelance research for documentary filmmakers. The pay was no good (most people don’t value research), so I used another skilled I had picked up along the way and started making websites. I grew to the point that I needed to hire people and become a manager, and I stopped enjoying that (I’m not a people person), so I took the video side of the website operation and grew it into videography, then filmmaking, where finally things are starting to happen. The literature part comes back to me when trying to construct a good story– in a screenplay instead of a video, or with pictures instead of words when editing. PHew! Long story, but if you keep looking, you’ll find it.
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@El Nerdo – Thanks for the words of encouragement! It helps
I am thankful that while I am working at WalMart, I’m working at WalMart as a cake decorator, getting experience and practice at something that I wouldn’t mind turning into a career. I’m actively looking at ways to get myself into the ‘real world’ of bakeries.
I also love research, and tend to do it in my free time, so I wouldn’t mind going down that road either.
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Someone said that liberal arts majors are better thinkers from the comments in the first page. I disagree that liberal arts graduates are much more intelligent and well prepared than those who major in professional studies (accounting, programming, nursing, medicine, law, etc.)
I respect the liberal arts, I think they’re important, however many of those majors can be learned by reading books at the city library such as art history. You should learn how to think critically before you go to college. That’s something my parents taught me. Its not an institutions responsibility to make people into critical thinkers.
From talking to people, to watching the news, I’ve learned that it doesn’t pay to be a liberal arts major. Its up to you to become a strong thinker no matter your major.
Grad school is filled with dozens of students, and while the grads from graduate schools are numerous, the jobs are very few. For the most part you should major in something practical and specialized.
Its very difficult to market a liberal arts degree, I also want to say that the liberal arts degree is based on the 17th century college model.
Which is fine, we should be well-rounded, we live in a very complex world, its important to know about various things but also come out of college with practical and applicable skills.
We live in the 21st century. No one in the real world cares if I know the difference between the Gothic Art and Greek Art or what happened to Alexander the Great’s empire after he died.
People in the real world want to know how you can help their business, how you can make money for their clients. They want to know if you have the skills to be a CNA, a nurse, a doctor, they want to know if you have the skills to defend them from a lawsuit. They want you to solve a real problem that they have.
They want to know if they can save for their kids college and pay off their mortgage at the same time. I’m paying my way through college, I’ve sent my application out there, I’ve interviewed for jobs, I know what employers want.
I think kids that have to work for their own college education are less sheltered and more realistic about the realities of the world and what employers want. I also think its partly the colleges fault for telling kids that any degree is fine.
Please understand I’m not saying that liberal arts degrees are useless, an education is NEVER useless. And yes liberal arts majors can make a living with their degrees but it seems to take them longer, either that or they have to pursue some other marketable skill on the side until they can work in the field they want.
But a professional study degree does put you to work immediately especially if you need money right away, and people do both. Sometimes people work as nurses or accountants until they can work as a history professor or until their artsy business picks up.
However I still disagree that liberal arts majors are intelligent than professional studies majors. There’s a certain perception among academic types that they’re somehow better than people that work outside of academia and that’s not fair.
That’s not a fair thing to judge another human being on.
btw J.D. One day you should cover CLEP testing, they’re standardized tests given out by the college board, available at most community colleges and state schools, if you pass the test, you get credit for the class. Its less expensive, and mostly available for general courses English, Sociology, College Algebra, etc.
Its more affordable and might help you graduate a semester early.
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html
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@ Valerie– You remind me of a friend/intern we had here a year ago. She worked at decorating cakes while studying history! Now I’m not sure exactly what she’s doing (I’m not a facebook person) but she’s more artist than academic– she’s great at drawing, sketching, etc.
If you like research, it’s a lot of fun when you find an interesting subject, but there is not a lot of money or jobs– highly competitive field in academia/museums/etc. if you pursue a graduate degree, make sure you get fully funded or else you’ll be inviting doom. I know a person who is over 60 and still paying student loans for 2 Master’s degrees– yikes!
Anyway best wishes & keep looking. Speaking of design (cakes) and history, here’s a woman who makes history-inspired jewelry:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/06/23/VI2010062302783.html (might require registration and what not)
@Jaime– yes, excellent points. And you are really are going to enjoy this video:
http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
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I meant to edit my post above but I got locked out. I meant to add that I do care what happened to Alexander’s empire after his death. Life without that kind of knowledge would be extremely dull to me– almost worthless. If all we had in life was practical knowledge, I would have died of boredom long ago. Anyway, my point is that I’d rather earn less but enjoy life. There are things that money can’t buy and the delights of knowledge are priceless when you treasure them. Much better than a stupid new car. But I agree with you, most of the world uses the humanities as a snotrag, won’t pay a dime for it, and would rather watch Dancing with the Stars than read about Greek art (they are missing out on a great pleasure, I think, but that’s their business).
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The important thing is to choose the right degree. I got an engineering degree from a school with great co-ops (paid internship). I got 1.5 years working experience in a 5 year program and came out with my M.S. My parents and co-ops (some paid over $20/hr)helped me out with 4 out of the 5 years of school so I only had to take loans out for year 5. That will be paid off next year (getting married this year so we made the decision to enjoy that instead of paying off the loans).
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