I’ve tried something new at Get Rich Slowly lately.
Several years ago, my friend Sparky gave some feedback about the site. “There are lots of great discussions in the comments,” he said, “but you never really make that obvious on the blog itself. If there’s a good conversation, you should let everyone know.”
I’ve never done that — until now. And I’m still not really doing what he wanted. What I’ve been doing instead over the past month is posting follow-ups to certain posts. So, for instance, Donna Freedman wrote about having it all, but not all at once, and a great conversation broke out in the comments. So, I responded the next day with an article about how to spend your money, which then prompted a reader story about saving for something close to home.
Or, two weeks ago Robert Brokamp spurred debate by arguing that college is a rip-off. Crystal responded by sharing how she avoided student loans (which caused a debate about what qualifies as a student loan). This Sunday, I’ll post a reader story responding to Crystal. See how there’s a sort of continuity going on?
Anyhow, this is an experiment. It’s not something I can do for every topic. But I can do it for certain topics where there’s a strong reader response. How do you feel about this sort of continuity? Do you like it? Hate it? Not care either way? I think it’s kind of comic-book-y, so I like it. But I can also see how it might get old. Let me know what you think.
Meanwhile, here are some interesting personal-finance stories from around the web:
First up, Jeremy at Gen X Finance explains why you can’t make money in the stock market. It’s the same reason your programmable thermostat doesn’t cut your energy costs. It’s you. Jeremy’s point is that after the crash in 2008, a lot of folks pulled their money out of the stock market. Now they’re putting it back in. This is dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb — with a million dumbs. Folks are selling low and buying high, which is exactly how you lose money at the stock market, not make it. This is a great article. If investing confuses you, read it. If the stock market scares you, read it. Heck, read it even if you do understand how this stuff works.
Moving on, Tracy at MoneyNing lists five of the worst ways to save money. Being frugal is a good thing — but be careful not to take it too far. Don’t rule out the most expensive option, for instance, if it’s also the best quality option. And never sacrifice your health for the sake of saving a buck. For that brief period that I crossed over into the land of cheapskates, I ignored some of these tips. Not anymore.
At Wise Bread, Kentin Waits explains why recycling is his lowest priority. No, he doesn’t advocating just throwing stuff in the trash. Instead, he stresses the importance of the first two parts of the phrase: “Reduce, reuse, and recycle.” The first two have a much greater impact on resource consumption. I agree. In fact, I made this same argument for Blog Action Day in 2007.
Finally, Jason at the Frugal Dad recently wrote about why we crave more Stuff. “The value of having less Stuff to worry about is worth far more than your collection of things,” Jason writes. I was just thinking about this today. What if Kris and I were starting over, moving into a small apartment? What if we had weeks or months to move in? What if we could get the space exactly right by only bringing over the essentials as we needed them? What would we keep? What would end up left behind? Why can’t I leave that Stuff behind now? (Related: Another Kentin Waits story at Wise Bread: The Zero-Accumulation Household.)
This article is about Spare Change
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I appreciate it when you follow up on stories and add your comments. GRS is my favorite personal financial blog and I have been reading it for years. Your blog is at the top of my list and I check it out everyday. Keep up the good work.
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I *really* enjoy the follow-up posts.
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I agree with Jasmine and Kate. Follow-up posts are great!
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I like the follow up posts/responses and your direct responses to comments on articles (I would like to see the non-JD authors do this if possible, sometimes there are so many that it is hard to know which comment is being referenced to).
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I love follow-up posts, whether they’re contradictions, complements or elaborations, additional perspectives are great.
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I love the follow up stuff and I love it when you respond in the comments. It makes the blog feel much more personal and responsive (and relevant, for that matter). And, honestly, it makes me check back in just to see what direction the conversation had gone off in.
Keep up the great work!
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I love it when you use a post to highlight the community. I do that on my own blog and have really gotten great response – people will comment, essentially, on someone else’s thoughts, even if they didn’t have a lot to say originally on mine!
The point is, you’re building community, and that’s as much your “brand” as you or any of the other posters, so why not give “us” fair space?
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I like the new plan.
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I like the idea of threaded comments, because people often reply without quoting (only doing @3) and I don’t know what they’re talking about. But then, I wouldn’t be able to see which comments are new, right? I have a problem with that already. Two problems, actually.
The first is that sometimes when I refresh, there will be more comments, but they won’t be at the bottom of the page. I think this is because some comments get approved later than others, even if they were written before others, and then they’re ordered by the time written?
And second – I don’t know if anyone else has this issue – the number of comments is all over the place when I refresh. For instance, I clicked on comments right after reading this and there were 8, refreshed and there were 5, and then refreshed again and there were 8. Does anyone know why this is? I’m on Firefox 3.6.15 if that makes a difference.
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I like the new plan also–and I vote for nested comments.
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JD, I would like to see some sort of nested comments. A solution where I can reply to a specific comment, and my reply shows up under theirs, probably indented or something. Many people already reply with a posters name or @comment number thing to indicate who they are trying to reply to. I think this would be a natural progression.
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I like threaded comments. That way Tyler K and I can go at each other without anybody having to click that thread. I don’t like voting comments up or down.
I don’t much care one way or the other about continuity. I do like it when mistakes are corrected, different view points are presented etc. I do like getting the whole picture on a topic, but it doesn’t have to be all in the same week or anything (especially if it’s not a topic I care about).
I also have the same refresh problem that Samantha is talking about. Also use firefox.
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I actually prefer the non-threaded comments, simply bc on blogs where there are threaded comments, I find few people continue reading past the first page of comments. Here, I feel like more people stay with the discussions until they naturally peter out, so people who chime in later still have their opinions discussed. I personally prefer the highlight method when there’s good information, or your direct responses.
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I have the same refresh problem on Safari, btw. I also agree that the comments that get held up in moderation sort of make it hard to follow–a reply might refer to post 31, but that post might end up down on post 42 once the other posts get approved.
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voting for nested comments.
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I agree with everything Nancy said!
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I was a Jeep Wrangler unlimited.. this adds nothing to the conversation, I just wanted to point it out.. and also bears don’t wear wetsuits.. I feel better getting all that off my chest..
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I love the follow up posts. The topics of the posts on this blog are thoughtful and make sense, like a well edited magazine. I think that’s what sets this blog apart from other personal finance blogs, where the author just posts about whatever they can think of that day. The posts here can still stand alone, and will pop up if people are searching for something specific, but it is a much nicer experience for long time readers that you put some thought into how the posts relate to each other.
And I would love to see nested comments.
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Editorial continuity is great, but the page refresh is the Achilles’ heel of the blog– sometimes you write something and it doesn’t appear, then it appears in one place, later it appears with a different number, later you come back and all the new posts are gone until you refresh… maddening!
This morning successive refreshes jumped me between a page where the last post was a broken one I wrote (and needed editing), and another page where my post was corrected and there were many more posts folowing up. Even after clearing browser cache, it kept going back and forth. Very strange! LIke being trapped in time. Twilight zone……
So yes, this is to add to #9 (or #? Samantha).
For this reason alone I think nested conversations should be at least postponed. Fix what’s broken first (faulty refreshes), then consider new bells and whistles.
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I love the follow-up posts and posts that respond to the discussion in the comments. I think it really does highlight the community there is here.
Not sure on the nested comments…
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RE: Refresh issues
We’re aware of these, though I’m not certain what can be done to fix them. I’m almost positive that they’re related to our caching plugin.
From what I understand, GRS generates enough traffic that the server gets cranky. This is especially true when someplace big links in. When that happens, we need to have a safety net. So, we use Supercache, which doesn’t necessarily show the most recent version of the page. (If I remember right, Supercache checks to see how recently you viewed the site. If it’s in the past few minutes, it shows you what you saw before. Or something like that.)
But I agree: This is frustrating for regular users. Does it make sense to frustrate regular readers 95% of the time just so irregular readers never experience frustration? I don’t know.
The best solution would be to find a way so that regular users always saw fresh content, but new users saw cached pages. But this is way beyond my know-how. Maybe the GRS technical elves can find a solution.
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Ohhhhhhhh… I get it.
Since you get so much traffic, maybe it’s time for a server upgrade
Eh, I don’t want to pry into the economics of your business– but a server upgrade (or different, faster platform?) seems like the next logical step.
If you feel like consulting a very sharp hive mind, check out the Ars Technica forum.
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I vote for threaded comments! I’ve run into the same problem where you @ somebody and reference a post number, only to have the post move later on because of comments in moderation. I also like the followups on previous articles. And having had less than fantastic experiences on some other sites (I am basically down to 3 PF blogs) I *really* appreciate all the work you do in the comments (both replying and moderating).
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I like the notion of this sort of continuity and of highlighting or quoting reader comments/stories generally. I’m for anything that highlights the comments or community really. For me personally, the value of moneyblogs (or those on most subjects) is the posts PLUS the comments, one guy’s opinion on and experience of a topic – however well written! – is much less useful or interesting.
And I agree with Nancy about non-threaded comments.
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Hey JD!
I totally support th follow-up stories. I don’t usually see the comments, since I read the blog using Google Reader, so having your follow-up comments & posts really helps me realize what’s going on
Keep it up! Hoping to get back to Portland….
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I like the follow up stories. A very good idea, IMHO. I also like the idea of threaded comments.
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Threaded comments can be nice in some cases, but it’s easy to screw it up.
I think nested comments (especially more than 1 level deep) encourages off-topic discussion.
I think that with non-nested comments people try harder to stay on-topic since they know that their words need to make sense in the greater context.
One site who I think does nested comments correctly is Consumerist. Only the top-level comment is show by default with a “X comments” button. People can go off-topic (and they do) but it doesn’t take away from the blog post related conversation as much.
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Follow-ups are great; I liked Crystal’s post but had no idea it was a response to a previous post. Perhaps just adding a note at the beginning of the post, in italics, that says: “this is a response to …” would help.
I agree with the Gen X topic in your round-up — most people who are actively trading and trying to time the market are actually hurting themselves. I just wrote a post on what the Japan disaster — and the market flurry accompanying it — can teach us.
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I vote “No” on threaded comments.
One of the charms of GRS is the flat style of comments. Yes sometimes it is hard to follow who responded to whom, as references to a previous post may be a much lower number or name and I need to scroll back if I want to see what they are talking about.
But flat style comments are a equalizing and democratizing force. For example, if you want make a response or comment to a previous poster AND you want to add your own comment to the primary article, what to do? Two posts.. one in threaded responses and one at the highest level? That seems too much to do to participate.
Also, threaded comments can be easy or hard. Do I need to click open each and every sub-comment to read the entire discussion? If I need to click (and maybe even wait to refresh) each one to read everything, I will not spend the time to read any. Right now I can just scroll and scan everything, stopping to read in depth anything if I so desire. If I need to click too much, etc., I won’t bother.
Keep it the way it is in my view.
I do agree that the original author should be encouraged to participate and respond to comments. It shouldn’t be a law, or even a requirement that every comment needs the author’s response, but that the author should understand that their responses is important, and add to the attractiveness of GRS. It isn’t a newspaper, it is an interactive blog. Makes it a better place.
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Please, please, please fix the fact the comment numbers can change after other people have referenced them. This is precisely the reason I’ll always reference previous comments with “@Name” instead of “@123″.
The slow caching thing is annoying too, but not as bad. You could probably mitigate it a lot by simply changing a “get a new version after 5 minutes” setting somewhere to “get a new version after for 1 minute”. I’ve deduced that you’ve got exactly three servers for the site, and that the slave ones don’t update from the master very often. You can tell this by waiting for someone to post a comment and then refreshing the page repeatedly and watching the number of comments alternate back and forth, with about a 2/3 chance of giving you the older number. Eventually the slave servers catch up, but it’s frustrating in the middle of a fast-moving conversation.
While we’re talking about site issues, make the comment box bigger. It’s not a huge deal here at the bottom of posts, because safari lets me resize it, but in the “edit comment” screen it’s tiny and you can barely make it bigger.
I do like the follow-up/elaboration-on-an-idea posts.
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LOL – leave it to Tyler to request a larger comment box. That said rarely do my comments fit in the box either.
I’m 60/40 on the idea of threaded comments – 60% yes.
I’d really, really love to simply be able to “like” or promote another person’s comment. I like to see when there is a big response to a post, which may be lost with this, but it is tedious when there are a lot of “me-too” types that don’t necessarily add to the conversation.
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I’m definitely in favor of the follow up posts!
As far as the comments, I like the way they are now (other than the refresh issue). I don’t think that you need comment promotion. That mostly helps push the “First!!111!!!! [irrelevant comment]” down, and I don’t think GRS has a problem with that. Discussions here are generally good and on topic, so I’m happy to just read through the whole thing.
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I really like the continuity and follow up, it feels more like a conversation to me.
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I do like the “continuity” as you call it. The only other issue I would change is what Tyler said about re-numbering comments. I think nesting comments would be hard to follow the conversation unless the new ones (since last visit) showed up a different color or something like that.
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Another vote for continuity/follow up.
For this blog, I like un-nested comments because it does force people to remain on-topic.
Another idea, if the GRS technical elves can do this… I’d love to see a “JDR/editor picks” of comments. The NYT website does this… they highlight the most interesting comments on a given article. It would be a great timesaver for those of us who come late to the post with 453 comments.
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Thinking about the “Stuff” issue a lot. My husband and I are moving to Ireland this summer and we’re using a “Upack/Theymove” system. It will cost $1100 per 100 cubic feet. Ouch. It will be reimbursed, but we’re running thin on our moving allowance. What to take? What to keep? What to leave with relatives?
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I like follow-up posts!
I learned a valuable lesson about “stuff” 15 years ago, when I had to move away from my husband, dog, and stuff for one year to do an internship (hubby was still in grad school so he had to stay put). I missed my husband and dog terribly, but the stuff? Not at all! I rented a studio apartment that I furnished with a bed and a computer (and a few dishes and clothes) and found it to be a very peaceful haven. Lessons learned: people matter, long-distance marriages are no fun, stuff is just clutter.
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I like the follow up posts, and I also agree with the comment about having a “best of comments” feature. When a lot of comments get generated it’s hard to read through them all, but I do like to see differing opinions. The follow up posts help and the “best of comments” feature would be even more helpful!
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I feel pretty neutral about the comment format, and I don’t refresh much so I hadn’t noticed the other problem!
I tend to get to the comments late in the day or even (*gasp*) a day after the article was posted – I read via my somewhat-intelligent phone and GReader, but if there’s something I want to comment on I try to visit it later.
When I get to a post with 100+ comments I tend to skim down the page looking for JD’s replies, or the dotted red box that highlights a particularly good comment (perhaps you need to do that more often as several posters aren’t aware of the convention).
I love the idea of more follow up esp since I often miss the comments entirely.
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I like the follow-ups (even when they don’t mention me!) because it allows for reflection. Sometimes it even allows for underwear overshares.
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I like it!
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I love follow up posts, in line comments (ie., where JD’s commentary appears in the actual comment) and the occasional highlighted comment. I would not want the highlighted comment to become an editorial feature, I don’t like the idea of a benevolent editor critiquing the contributions of others and deeming some “worthy”. Additionally, I am strongly against nested/threaded comments, my fear being that the post commentary will become personality driven as opposed to topic driven.
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I agree, nested comments tend to go off tangent pretty quickly, based on all the other blogs I read. If you even contemplated going down that road, though, I would limit the amount of ‘nests’ the original post could have to keep the system clutter-free.
The numbering system is much more democratic and allows you to ‘@’ someone as well as bring in a separate, nuanced point of view. If the moderation feature can be changed to not screw up the post numbering, I think you’re set
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I love the continuity also! And I wouldn’t mind nested comments, but like MT just said, comments can get way off track and if people start arguing with each other it becomes less enticing to read. (Not that I read every single other comment at the moment)
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