Reader Story: Rental Properties from the Tenant’s Point of View
Published on - May 8th, 2011 (by J.D. Roth) This guest post from Avery is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success — or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes.
From time to time, stories on Get Rich Slowly talk about rental properties, usually from the perspective of a small-time landlord, and inevitably, there are comments about troublesome tenants. But there are always three sides to every story: the landlord’s, the tenant’s, and the truth. I was that pain-in-the-ass tenant, and this is my story.
I’ve been a renter ever since I left college. It’s been a mix of traditional apartments with corporate landlords, to renting rooms from home-owners. I even once rented half of a duplex from a mom-and-pop landlord, and this was an experience I’ll never forget.
Setting the stage
Back in 2004, I was looking for a two-bedroom apartment with a friend of mine. He was a few years older than me, and always paid cash for everything. As such, he had no credit. Literally none. It was a challenge getting approved for apartments — I didn’t make enough money to support the application on my own, but to consider his income, they would also need to run his credit. But, with no credit, there was a huge problem.
We ended up renting the back half of a duplex that he found on Craigslist. The landlord had no problem with having no credit, and we only had to put down 1/3 of the monthly rent for a deposit. This was the first time I had rented from a small time landlord where the landlord didn’t live in the house. The landlord lived and worked about 20 miles away. But Los Angeles being what it is, 20 miles can be close to an hour in traffic. This guy didn’t have a property manager, so he expected us to help with small repairs. My roommate was a bit of a handy man so he didn’t mind. He kept the cable and internet in his name, which was a real chore when things didn’t work. He didn’t follow up on repairs that were supposed to be made.
But one day, both the oven and the air conditioner broke. Mind you, we lived in a part of L.A. where it can get to 120F during the day. Air conditioning in parts of the country is as important as heat in the northern parts. I worked midnights, so I slept during the hottest parts of the day. It was imperative that I have functioning A/C. The landlord made some efforts to make the repairs, but the repairs didn’t work or there was difficulty getting them done. One of the challenges was having someone present to let the repairmen in. They wouldn’t come in without someone present. I was home, but I was sleeping. The time he would schedule people to come were the equivalent of a normal person’s 1am-4am, which didn’t work for me.
Why was this a big deal? I’ve rented for my entire adult life. When repairs need to be made, I pick up the phone and make one call. That’s it. That’s one of the biggest benefits of renting — not having to worry about home repairs. So, to me, going through the inconvenience of getting the stuff fixed was his problem, not mine. We were paying $1700 per month for this rental, so it’s not as if we were getting a “deal” in exchange for repairs. Besides, if that was the expectation, it should have been in the lease.
Taking action
After a few weeks of not getting satisfactory repairs, I decided to explore my options. Los Angeles is a rent-controlled city, and I somehow managed to find the rent control laws. It just so happened that as a duplex, the laws applied to the unit. (They don’t apply to single family houses.)
One of the laws required that the landlord have a rental certificate, and without it, he legally could not collect rent. I made a phone call to the housing department, and they confirmed that there was no certificate on file. Wow! I could withhold the rent until the repairs were made. There was some fine print stating that once the certificate was obtained, then he could get back rent.
However, I found out from the building department that although the place was a duplex, it was only zoned for single family. The building plans showed only a single family residence. In order to get a rental certificate, the place must be zoned properly. Because it wasn’t, it was ineligible for a rental certificate, so the landlord could never legally collect rent. I was living in an illegal apartment! I also found out that if the housing department was properly notified, the landlord would be forced to relocate us and pay $7,000 for the efforts.
After I learned all of this, I held my cards close to my vest. I didn’t tell him what I knew. I notified my landlord in writing that the repairs had not been made after several attempts, and that I could not be expected to be awake during their visits. If the repairmen woke me up accidentally, that’s fine, but I was not going to supervise them. I also informed him that I would deduct 45% of the rent for each day that the repairs weren’t made, and that I would pay the remainder only when the repairs were made. At worst, he’d be out a few hundred that he’d get in a week or two. I asked the landlord to respond only in writing, but he never did. He did respond with a three-day “pay or quit” notice that is required before going to court. He never made satisfactory repairs.
According to the housing department, the only way I could defend an eviction was by proving that the unit was in fact illegal. To do so, I would have to call the building and safety department and have them shut down the unit, which I did. The landlord filed the eviction papers with the court, but never served them to me. I couldn’t figure that one out. I don’t know what my landlord knew about the unit. What I do know is that once building and safety shut the unit down, it took my landlord at least five months before he could rent the unit out again. I feel bad about that, because I didn’t intend for him to lose that much rent. I figured I’d save a few hundred at most, and just make him do what he was supposed to.
So, yes, I was the pain-in-the-ass tenant. I didn’t set out to be that way, and I didn’t intend to cause my landlord much financial strife. I’m actually sorry he lost that much rent. But, quite frankly, my landlord screwed up every chance he got.
Lessons for landlords
My story also serves as a lesson to landlords, and I can summarize it as follows:
- If you have tenants who pay their rent on time and don’t cause trouble with the neighbors, keep them happy. As a small-time landlord, any tenant who is a royal pain can cost you big time. You don’t have the volume like the big boys to play things by the numbers.
- Get a good property manager, learn to be responsive, or work it out in writing with your tenants how repairs are going to be made. Me? I’d rented from enough commercial outfits where I just assumed that one phone call takes care of the problem. When I’m renting at market rates, I’m not expecting to do any more than that. Definitely not when I work midnights and need to sleep during the day. I’m paying you for the hassle of not having to deal with that myself. If you want me to, then you better knock something off the rent and make it worth my trouble. I don’t care that you’re a single person with a “real” job and might not have time for that.
- Know your properties. I lived in a duplex, but the city planning office thought it was single family. That can cause you problems if your tenants want to make your life difficult.
- Know the rules where you play. This is doubly true in a rent controlled area. In L.A., single-family housing units are exempt from the rent-control rules, but he had a duplex, period. As such, the property fell under the city’s housing office, legal dwelling or not. And L.A. is very unkind to landlords who have illegal units.
- Get good legal representation. My landlord had a lawyer, and he wasn’t worth what she paid him. He couldn’t even write up a proper pre-eviction notice, as required by California law. He ended up losing $13,000 in rent, paying some court fees, paying his lawyer, and making structural changes to bring the unit back into compliance. Oh, and although he filed the papers to evict me, he never served them. (How’d I know? The courts mail you an FYI.) Never figured that one out.
Like I said above, I’m sorry he lost that much rent. I figured he’d make the repairs and be out a few hundred dollars. But, he sort of left me in a pickle when he attempted to evict me, and I had to defend myself. In California, you cannot evict someone for non-payment of rent when you legally cannot collect said rent. However, I did have to prove it. I put a lot of time into covering my butt. Too much time. In the future, it would have been better to just be straight about the whole thing. I think I won, but I now think it was more trouble than it was worth.
One thing that I do want to throw out for general discussion: We have laws. When is unethical or morally wrong to take advantage of said laws? I can see in some cases where people take advantage of something that clearly violates the spirit of the law, but how about here? The law clearly prohibits exactly what the landlord was doing. What I did wasn’t in violation of the spirit, and I had case law after case law to back myself up. (I’m not going to risk an eviction without knowing where I stand.) Can two parties agree to break the law? If so, must one or both parties be aware of it?
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No deep thoughts or judging. It is odd that he didn’t have someone there to oversee repairs if the tenant could not be there. When I’ve rented they’ve always asked if I was going to be around and if not they sent someone, either the property manager or the owner (or the owner’s college-aged kid).
Glad I’m not a landlord in LA! Though I suppose it would be pretty lucrative if I owned property in LA…
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It’s the landlord’s job to be there to let in the repair person.
That being said, why not just ask a friend or relative to be there for you if it’s that big of an issue?
I don’t have a problem with you throwing a wrench in your landlord’s eviction action. But you both probably lost on the deal.
Sometimes the price of being “right” is higher than the cost of being annoyed for a few hours.
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Other things aside….I am a renter myself. I always take time off when repair men come over, even just turning on and off the ac/heat. I do not like strangers in my house, including the land lord, when I am not home. I do not allow access to my yard when I am not home either. I take time off to be there. I cannot feel bad for this person at all. If you cannot get time off of work for somthing this simple? What happens when you go to the doctors office? Or do you expect them to make an appt for you at 5 am (I forgot the real time you get off)? I also have never had ANY company give me less then a 4 hour window for them to come over and it is always that latest time….until you figure out that pattern then they screw that all up. I also do not understand how hard it is to just let someone into your house? You really have no friends that would be able to help? I just can’t feel bad for this person at all. I have a few friends that are Dr’s and nurses at the ER at night. They get the kids ready for school and then go to bed then wake up when they get home…not to hard. Please don’t EVER have kids or a pet….they might make you get up in the middle of the “night”
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I think that the point is that as a renter, you shouldn’t HAVE to take time off of work to be there. You should definetly have the right to do so, but if my landlord expected me to be around for repairs I’d tell him he was out to lunch. I work too much to have to waste my time on that kind of thing. That’s exactly the kind of reason why I rent!
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I own few properties that I rent in NYC. Those properties are bulk of my assets and whenever I am getting work done, I take the day off and get there to supervise repairman or contractor. Only after completing to my satisfaction will the repair guy get paid for work. I want to make sure work is being done properly as improvement is being done to my investment. As per lease, I have every right to be at premise for needed repairs. One day of landlord’s day cost him $13,000 and a lot of headache. The landlord got what he deserved by neglecting his investment.
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Geez, I hope I never rent to you–I totally disagree with your attitude. I rented for years and years myself but I’d never do what you did.
It’s so strange that you thought it was your landlord’s responsibility to somehow find air conditioning repairmen who would work at night! (uh, what?) I own my home now and guess what? All repairmen only ever come during the day even if you aren’t renting–who knew?
And when you were home, you couldn’t be bothered to even get up and open the door when the repair guys came? But I thought you couldn’t sleep without the AC on so why were you asleep then anyway? And I thought you were anxious to get it fixed? So, huh? I don’t understand your actions.
And then you “retaliated” (for what, I’m not sure–the landlord trying to get the AC fixed?) by trying to get your landlord in major legal trouble for something that was unrelated! I bet that really helped solve your AC problem.
Oh and if your apartment was “legal” it would have cost you way more rent.
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Karen, if I’m reading the post correctly – I don’t think the writer had a problem with someone fixing the AC during the day. I think he wanted the landlord to be there to oversee the repair instead of himself.
I also don’t think he “retaliated” – he was just trying to get the AC fixed which the landlord didn’t do.
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If the landlord didn’t have the flexibility to be there and supervise the repairs then he shouldn’t have become a landlord. When you decide to rent a property you take on full responsibility for maintaining and repairing the property, even when it’s inconvenient. If you cannot afford to do so financially or time-wise then being a landlord is not for you.
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Well put. Being a landlord is like having a part time (if you’re lucky) job. You have to put the time in.
Too many people think they only need to collect the rent. There’s a lot more involved in being a landlord.
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EXACTLY! Being a landlord doesn’t just mean owning an extra house and collecting money. It means running a business and one important part of that business is that your responsible for making repairs. That’s just terrible customer service.
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I was wondering the same thing too. 8am-5pm is when the vast majority of repairmen work.
It’s like closing your eyes and thinking nobody can see you.
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My landlord asks if we are going to be around for repairs, and, if not, he supervises. Granted, this is my first apartment, and I’ve apparently lucked out with my landlord (according to everyone I know), but I honestly thought that’s what was supposed to happen.
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He wasn’t asking the repairs to be done at night, he sleeps during the day and didn’t feel he should have to get up to let in a repairman.
I’m with the renter, he made an effort, the landlord barely did.
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I don’t understand why the landlord (the one who owns the property and is paying the repairman) isn’t the one to wait around for them. Wouldn’t the landlord want to supervise the repair, anyway, to make sure that everything goes ok?
Part of being a renter is not having to deal with that sort of thing. As a homeowner, I expect to have to take off work/rearrange my schedule to get service done. As a renter, I did not.
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I’d say the opposite, the landlord had several opportunities to make this right and chose not to. He could have lost a day of work to supervise himself, he could have hired someone to go meet the repairmen, etc.
Besides which, he was acting illegally all along. Honestly, I think Avery doesn’t need to worry that he did anything wrong. He followed the rules, and if anything, went out of his way to help the landlord.
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I’m on Avery’s side here, but as a tenant who is waiting for his A/C to be fixed at the moment, I would do anything to help a repairman fix the place!! Including getting up and staying up to supervise if I needed to.
What I wouldn’t do though is continue paying full rent if the A/C was not repaired after a reasonable amount of time. If A/C is included in the rental agreement, and the A/C is not repaired, then you’re breaking that contract.
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Reading comprehension fail.
The post says:
Read that again.
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i seriously doubt he could sleep with “120 degree heat”– i’d wake up at any hour to let the reparmen in
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I don’t think I could sleep if I had a stranger in my house…
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I’ve read that passage like 3 times, and I can’t figure out why it’s a reading comprehension “fail”.
He didn’t want to wake up during the day to meet the repairmen, so presumably he wanted them to come at night?
Maybe he wanted someone else to come supervise, but that sounds weird – since he wanted A/C in his room, did he want them working around him as he slept?
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The tenant wasn’t asking for the repairman to come at night. He was just asking for the repairman to be scheduled at a time more convenient for him. There is an 8 hour work day for the repairman, and pushing him forward or back within this period could be more appropriate for the tenant’s sleeping pattern.
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Here is the comprehension mishap- he doesn’t care if they do the work while he sleeps. The problem is that they require someone to be there and supervise them. He doesn’t want to have to sit there supervising repair men. That’s the landlord’s job.
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In parts of the country where a/c is imperative, MOST repairmen are available 24 hours/day, actually. I live in an area of the country where similarly 120 during the day is not uncommon during the summer, and a search for “24 hour ac repair” with my cities name yields DOZENS of results. This is not at all an unreasonable demand.
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Interesting story – clearly there were no winners.
A lot of “amateur” landlords are ill-prepared for the realities of maintaining a rental.
I’m not a fan of real estate investing. I don’t think it’s very efficient if you only have one or two units.
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I can’t believe all the stuff you did filing paperwork with courts and looking stuff up at the county was easier than just getting up during the day to let the A/C guy in the house. Courts and county offices usually are only open during regular business hours, too, but you managed to get there just fine.
Yes, the guy should have valid permits for the property, especially if he’s going to be renting it out, but two wrongs generally don’t make a right. I know, nothing you did was technically wrong from a legal perspective, but dragging a guy through the legal system as payback for an unrelated problem looks a bit questionable, don’t you think?
And the picture is captioned as “Not Shara’s home” which may be true, but seems a bit irrelevant if the post was written by someone named Avery.
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Oops. I pulled this photo from a previous story on rental properties. Forgot to change the caption. Thanks, Tyler.
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I agree with this sentiment. Especially since I’m coming from the perspective of also being an owner of a heating/air conditioning company. If it is the middle of the busy season most places are booked solid for weeks on end and if you want your a/c fixed quickly that means you need to have some flexibility with your availability. We deal with many landlords/tenants and always try to be as accommodating as we can be with people’s schedules, but sometimes you have to take what you can get. Most people (especially if air conditioning is that important to them) are understanding about this fact. It sounds to me like Avery didn’t even try to work with her landlord or the HVAC company before playing hardball.
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But he did say that when the HVAC company could come was “between 1-4am” equivalent. So there were plenty of other “regular” hours he could have called offices.
Working alternative shifts can be really hard. Would you be happy if your landlord said “oh, by the way,I want to test your security system and I will have someone come by between 1-4 am, while you are trying to sleep, for possibly hours”? I wouldn’t have been!
I paid rent and expected them to fix the issue. That’s what your landlord is for. Now that I own my house, I expect to have take time off during the day to fix problems.
If the landlord had offered compensation, like “20% off rent for the month if you can help assist in the repair” that would be different, maybe, but it’s still the renter’s choice if he wanted to stay up.
Just because it’s “daytime”, don’t expect him to have to do more than you would do at “nighttime”.
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When you take a non 9-5 job you go in knowing that the rest of the world will continue to operate mainly on a 9-5 schedule.
When I went to a contracting job that involved working with a team in Hawaii (I’m in Minnesota) I knew that I would end up working 1-5 AM frequently since they would work until midnight.
Is it convenient? No, but working odd shifts is not an excuse for assuming the world will bend to your whim.
That said, it was the landlord’s responsibility to get the AC fixed and he didn’t do it. If the tenant wasn’t cooperative, the landlord should’ve gotten the AC fixed and then terminated the contract at the next opportunity — no one should have to deal with an uncooperative landlord or uncooperative tenants.
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The internet is a powerful tool. I could look up just about anything I needed to 24/7. The only trip I made anywhere was to the building and safety department. And I made this trip when I was in the process of figuring out what my tenant right were. Sure, California state law says one can withhold rent until repairs were made, but local law said I didn’t have to pay rent at all. I just needed to understand which law was applicable and under what circumstances. I didn’t file anything, the landlord did.
The larger point was that it’s the landlord’s responsibility to ensure that the repairs were done, not mine.
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If I am not mistaken in California you can have a repairman come fix the AC unit, as I think it is a basic necessity, and send the bill to the landlord in lieu of rent.
So if you called an AC repairman and had them come out, the landlord has no choice. Some contracts require you to notify the landlord, and some do not. Common courtesy suggests you contact them immediately, but not everyone is the same.
I am with you Avery, renters rights are something that you as a landlord need to know. I think you were justified. Even if I owned the building I would think so, as I would not have let it get that bad.
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Wow, this story is very similar to what I went through just last month. Differing details: the landlord lost her 4-plex property to foreclosure, and the bank representative came around and let the tenants know the timeline for moving out (a month, which is illegal, but that’s another story). So in the hopes of salvaging a little of my deposit, I withheld that last month’s rent. I paid first & last month’s rent, AND a security deposit when I moved in. Anyways, when my rent didn’t show up, she tried to evict me. Filed the 3-day notice, filed the eviction notice, actually came to court (45 minutes late). I talked to the housing authority and a pro bono attorney came with me to court. Both the judge and the attorney pointed out that it was no longer her property, but she was adamant it still was. The case was dismissed, I found a new place and moved out by the end of the month. I expect I will have to take her to small claims court for my deposit.
I did feel sorry for her initially, as it seems the bank wasn’t playing by the rules either. But all that evaporated when she gave other tenants a key to my unit.
I stayed pro-active throughout. Just because I am low-income doesn’t mean I am without resources, and I used as many as I could.
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Strange. When I’ve paid last month’s rent before, I never had to pay for the last month living there. That is to say, instead of turning in rent on my last month, I just turned in my notice letter.
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As both a renter and a night-shift worker, I have a lot of empathy for the writer. And yes, I’ve had maintenance workers wake me up from a dead sleep at 11am during the day, which is the equivalent of someone knocking on your door at 2am at night. Not fun, nor does it make working the next night very easy. (Do you want a sleep-deprived nurse taking care of you at night right after your surgery? Probably not.)
The point is, a lease is there to protect both the landlord and the tenant. If repairs are to be the responsibility of the landlord (especially when neglect of said repairs makes the house/apartment uninhabitable), then the tenant should not have to make special concessions for the work to be done. If Avery worked away from home during the day, would you expect him to take unpaid time off from work to supervise the maintenance workers? If you answer no, then a night shift worker should not be expected to be awake during their sleep time to supervise either.
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Sarah, I totally agree. It doesn’t matter that Avery was physically present during the day. The landlord should be able to oversee repairs. My landlords in the past have always asked me, when repairs are needed, if I will be home or if they should be there to let the repairman in.
For that matter, I don’t see anything immoral with bringing down the law on an illegal property. Maybe they could have come to some agreement, but in the long run Avery was better off living somewhere else.
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I totally agree. I have had very similar situations myself. My landlord simply assumed that, since I was home (albeit asleep), she could just expect me to be there when repairs were made. If I had been working in an office, I could not just have taken a day off to wait for a repairman, either… Besides, the repairman had often stood me up for these things. I worked 10pm to 7am. I was fine with the repairman showing up at between 7am and 9am. I was also fine with the repairman showing up between 2pm and 10pm. This does not seem particularly unreasonable, and, indeed, had I worked 9-5, there would have been no other way but to come on the weekend or 6pm-10pm. Most working people cannot just take a day off to have a repair person come to their home–especially if that person will not reliably show up when agreed.
Similar issues have arisen with utility companies, who are more than willing to come and install, say, your cable on a Saturday, but only have repair techs available 9-2 and 1-5 on weekdays.
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It all sounds a little fishy. You couldn’t wake up for 15 mins. to let someone in? I have been in the same situation (lifelong renter, often work nights) and while it is annoying, it’s not that big of a deal. Your roommate could have called in sick or taken a day off to deal with this, as well. Sure, your landlord should have done better to avoid confrontation. But, you are definitely a nightmare tenant. That’s why, even though I want to own property, I can’t justify becoming a landlord. The margins are thin, and then you get the wrong tenant, and the problems begin.
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Why would the roommate have had to “take a day off of work or called in sick to deal with this?” First of all, calling in sick when you are not sick is unethical. Secondly, some people do not have much flexibility at their jobs to call in a lot. Most importantly, the repair was the landlord’s responsibility. If anybody should have taken time off from their day job, it should have been the landlord.
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Sorry didn’t mean to sound inflammatory. You are putting your story out there, and this is my view on it. Life has some hassles, and this is one of them. I’m commenting from the perspective of a long-term renter and possible future landlord. If you were so inflexible that you could not let a repair man inside, and your roommate has no personal or vacation time, I would have made arrangements to have a stranger come in to your rental home to supervise. Not sure why your landlord didn’t do this. I guess he learned his lesson (and so did I!)
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So, is the landlord supposed to pay for the time off the tenant takes? Who should have to use their vacation at work to do someone else’s job?
The landlord should have taken the day off to take care of their income producing property.
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+1
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my “+1″ comment showed up in the wrong place. I was seconding Allyson C’s comment #19.
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Indeed, my landlord made the same argument–she worked 9-5 and could not afford to take time off to come oversee work at the property. I, on the other hand, was expected to somehow be there. The only reason why she even argued this was because she KNEW I worked nights and would be home. Simply, she did not respect the fact that I needed my sleep. Or maybe she argued that others should take a day off because somehow their work was less important than hers…
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you want to hear about a nightmare tenant? Unless we’ve missed a lot of this story, this doesn’t sound like a nightmare tenant. This sounds like someone who was trying to get the work done on their home (tho I definitely would have shared the illegal nature of the apartment with the landlord, and then worked with the landlord to get everything fixed). There is a pain-in-the-ass bit here. But the landlord WAS renting an illegal apartment, and that’s not the tenant’s fault.
My parents rented their house out after they moved somewhere new. They had a cruddy property manager, which confounded the problem. They also wanted to go with short-term rentals for a $500,000 house (6 months or so) instead of longer term. And they only got $500 deposit for security. So, I will admit they made mistakes. higher security deposit + a much longer term rental would likely have brought in more stable folks. But my parents were itching to sell and thought 6 months would be a good break before putting the house back on the market.
But the tenants? Oh, wow, the tenants. Starting on the surface level, they broke several things in the house, including parts of the brand new wood flooring that had been put in. I am unsure how you can break wood flooring (who drops something heavy enough to break wood?), but they did. They also rarely cleaned, and there were hours worth of cleaning my parents did. They emptied the hot tub without asking my mom, and she only discovered when she went over to turn off the outside taps before everything froze — she had to pay to fix the hottub because it wasn’t drained properly. And then the tenants tried to sue my mom for their deposit because they said “but we cleaned!” But it definitely was not clean to the level at which they had moved into the house, and the broken things alone cost $500 to fix.
As a final spit in the face, the tenants left the beautiful surprise of bedbugs. In my parents’ really awesome house. And my mom and brother lived in the house for several months, being bait for the bedbugs, so that they could be totally exterminated.
My parents pretty much lost ALL the money they had earned from renting out their house. That is a nightmare tenant.
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It can go the other way too with an individual property owning landlord automatically assuming a tenant–because they rent–will not care about a property and will “stick it to the landlord” if they can and so keeps every negotiation so rigid as to make a nice property not worthwhile. After all, rent or no, it is going to be someone’s “home”. But dad thinks all renters are vagabonds and need to be watched (something he thinks he learned from his daughter.)
My father is a small town rental landlord with several properties. He says he keeps rents low so the local teachers can afford it (he’s a retired teacher) but few teachers rent from him for more than a year. Everything seems to be a nice working relationship until you move in. He inspects his property all the time–home or not but within the local laws and, small town like, just doing drive-bys on the way to something. He questions every single thing that is in evidence–something left on the porch, a strange car, a lot of beer cans in the recycling…you can paint the place any color you want as long as it’s white, etc. The local 30-day eviction is applied for ANY infraction regardless of cause.
The places are nice, but, I’ve rented all my life by choice (20 adult years) and honestly? I wouldn’t rent from my dad–especially not if he were NOT my dad.
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Wow, a tenant from hell.
You should stick with a big apartments then. Why did you go with a small time landlord in the first place? There are going to be some inconvenience and if you need special handling (night shift) then you should go with what you know.
I’m a small time landlord and try to repair any problems as soon as I could. I had a property manager and they didn’t do their job so I fired them. Property manager doesn’t automatically equal better experience.
This is why the US is full of lawyers. Hope you had better luck at your next place.
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Sorry for the multiple posts.
To the author – knowing what you know now, would you do the same action again or would you have just dealt with the repairman even though the landlord was in the wrong?
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As a small time landlord, albeit one that lives on the other side of the duplex and makes it a policy to attend to my tenant’s requests promptly and maintain friendly relations (only 2 tenants in almost 5 years) I’m sympathetic to your ordeal but not at all to your scheduling issue. It’s not easy to get someone to respond at all to an immediate problem, and if they do, it’s likely going to be inconvenient for either the responder or the respondee. Remember, as a respondee you need them more than they need you. As a A/C co owner stated earlier, they’re often booked solid and for long periods of time. Someone is going to need to be flexible, and I guarantee you it won’t be the service company. They’ll just go on to the next job. So if something needs to be fixed, the tenants and landlords need to be flexible. The choice was sleep or AC. You chose sleep, but it sounds like the landlord didn’t do any f/u or keep you abreast so don’t think I’m absolving anyone. Just making the larger point that when it comes to repairmen, it’s freaking annoying when they give you a window of time, but remember, they generally don’t need you as much as you need them, so even if inconvenient, that’s the way the world works. If an AC guy told me he could only come at 1-4 at night, I’d be up.
As to the ethical implications, zoning laws are often opaque and it’s hard to get straight information from the city dept. If the guy knew it was illegal, he shouldn’t have expected any notice. But perhaps he had lived in the house and moved out and decided to rent his former unit and had no idea it was illegal? Before engaging in legal or other retaliatory action in my opinion it’s always preferable to notify someone first (doesn’t mean you have to give him a long time to respond or let the situation get drawn out)to avoid conflagrating the situation.
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There are 2 points that make me think we’re not hearing ALL the story, or even all the issues that played into this.
The first is that the person who wrote it could be so recalcitrant over his sleep needs. Sure, we all need to sleep (I’m kind of crazy about getting my zzzz’s myself), but certainly he knows that most of the time repairs get done are during the day and that he’s the unusual one here – so expect to have to make an effort to get the thing you want.
Secondly, he repeats several times that he’s sorry the landlord lost so much money and that it wasn’t his intention. Well, that’s easily fixable; pay the landlord the rent. Or even some part of the rent, deducting for the lack of a/c time. (I know this is legally gray, but if the point is to do right, then that can be worked out).
And there may be a third point as well. What about his “holding [his] cards close to [his] vest”? I agree the landlord should have known and abided by the law, but allow for the possibility that given the correct information the landlord would have addressed THAT situation as well.
In fact, if the tenant had handled this with a bit of cooperation and a little less conniving, he might have been spared the need to move, enjoy the gratitude of his landlord, and not have to feel so guilty for having stolen the use of the property.
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No, he’s the tenant here. It’s not his job to get up, oversee or go back to bed and have to get up again to “inspect” or talk to them, nor to have to do it again if they need parts or the like.
It really doesn’t matter if he worked days or nights (and far more than day workers/night sleepers, night workers need to guard their sleep — more than anyone, research shows it actually shortens lives!) — it wasn’t his responsibility, that’s why he’s a tenant!
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Agree. Once the tenant knew of the legal problems with the property, he should not have held his cards quite so close to his vest, but rather at least hinted at his leverage. Absent doing so, the landlord cannot be persuaded by it!
At the end of the tenant’s letter demanding repair and stating that he would withhold some rent, he should have written something along the lines of: “It has come to my attention that this property is not in compliance with applicable zoning law and that the proper rental certificates have not been obtained. I am willing to overlook these issues and continue our leasing arrangement so long as you complete the air conditioning repairs no later than [date about two weeks out] and under your own direct supervision. Obviously, my preference is that we reach an amicable resolution of this dispute over the air conditioning repair. I look forward to hearing from you soon.”
Also, once the landlord filed for eviction, the tenant was not “forced” to defend himself by pursuing the legalities. He *could* have contacted the lawyer to attempt to negotiate a resolution. In Atlanta, Georgia, all eviction cases are forced into mediation before the judge ultimately rules on the petition. This allows the parties one last chance to work it out before the dramatic action is finalized. The tenant should have kept his eyes on his goal — working AC — rather than sticking it to the landlord, even though he was within his legal rights to do so.
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Ummm…so your “legal” solution is written proof of blackmail?
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It’s not blackmail to demand that to which you are already legally entitled — that is, fix the AC! He would not be asking for hush money or anything extra on top of what the landlord already owes him.
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I’m not going to write “fix the AC or I’m going to turn you in.” That probably creates legal exposure that I didn’t need.
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To Avery, actually it doesn’t, and it probably would have gotten your issue resolved without all the unnecessary fall-out. Too bad you didn’t consult a lawyer and went renegade on your landlord.
I just don’t think you made much of an effort to RESOLVE the problem rather than stick it to the landlord just because you could. Legally within your rights, but ultimately what was gained? I also think the landlord could and SHOULD have done things differently. My biggest issue here is that this is a situation in which it appears you two could have come to a mutually agreeable solution, but instead the “negotiations” blew up unnecessarily to the detriment of both.
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Yes, you are right, in the end, it cost me more in time than was justified by the rent I was saving. Really, all I wanted to do was knock a few $ off the rent for the inconvenience. But the situation blew up, from mis-steps on both our parts.
But the reason I wrote the story was to give the small-time (or potential small-time) landlords in the audience a heads-up about how things can blow up in ways that nobody expects.
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Actually you were telling him he should blackmail the landlord into doing his JOB, you were also saying that the writer should just live in an illegal apartment with a crappy landlord! If you don’t know what blackmail sounds like then you should NEVER write a legal letter!
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If he would have gotten on his game and attended to his property, he would have minimized his financial exposure. He lost what he lost because of the way he chose to respond to me.
More than anything, I wrote this as a heads-up to small time landlords.
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No, he lost what he lost because you called the building and safety department and shut the unit down. That was directly from your actions. You didn’t HAVE to do that, it was just you being vindictive after your gambit of withholding the rent didn’t get the result you wanted. Instead of bowing down and fixing the air con, he evicted you and you got pissed off.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for you at all. Whether or not it was the landlord’s job to attend the repair, you didn’t do much at all to try to sort this out first. And the bit about being okay with them waking you during the repair? How’s that different to them waking you when they ring the doorbell?
Maybe this is just another case of things being different in the US. Where I live, the tenant is generally expected to be present when there’s a repair going on; it’s their home after all. Or at least they work with the landlord, instead of this childish “It’s your job so you do it, only do it my way” attitude you’ve got.
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I don’t think he stole the use of the property – I think it was vacant for 5 months b/c it was tied up in red-tape due to the re-zoning.
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I would normally not comment on such a post, but I felt compelled by your attitude. I think you are a major jerk, and I would not be surprised if your little stunt prevents you from renting future apartments. Here in NY, landlords check housing court records and wouldn’t think of renting an apartment to someone who did what you did.
The bottom line is that it is not possible to hire an AC repairman to come at night. If you wanted your AC fixed, you should have realized that the rest of the world works during the day, and you might have to lose a few hours of sleep to get the repair done. From what you described, you were completely inflexible and at fault.
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Wow. Harsh. And I don’t think you actually read and comprehended the post. He didn’t want someone to come at night. He just didn’t want to be responsible for getting up and having to let the person in, monitor them and what not – which is completely reasonable as he is the tenant, not the landlord.
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I’m sorry, I don’t agree that it’s reasonable. There’s nothing the landlord can do to other than to go onsite himself or have someone else go onsite. Neither make any sense since the entire process would likely disturb the tenant anyway. Giving up a few minutes of his precious sleep (which he claims he could not get with no AC anyway) would have saved everyone a world of heartache.
Instead, many people were inconvenienced and nothing was accomplished other than him losing his deposit and the landlord losing several months.
The fact that he is essentially bragging about this is even more reprehensible.
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I’m kind of stunned by the recrimination being poured on the person who is *fulfilling* his contract in this situation. If the landlord doesn’t want to deal with this kind of behaviour, she should 1) comply with local laws and 2) abide by the terms of the lease. The reasons that Avery gives for not being able to supervise the work are wholly irrelevant – it’s not his duty or obligation to be able to do so. It is the landlord’s duty and obligation.
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Anyone ever heard of a fan? 120 degrees? That sounds about as dramatic as your response to the whole situation.
As someone who manages a rental property from 1,500 miles away, there really isn’t any reason why someone has to stand there and watch the repairman work. There are numerous legal ways to provide access to anyone authorized by the landlord, including asking the tenant to let them in. I do this all the time for repairs; ask the tenant to be there, leave a key hidden outside, etc. The service tech calls me when they arrive, we discuss the issue, they do what they need to do, then they leave. If the tenant can’t provide access, then the repair doesn’t happen until they can.
BTW, my lease, which is a standard form lease for the entire state, states that heating/cooling issues are not considered emergencies and therefore can be resolved in the standard time frame (7 business days). This is in the south of Texas too, so you can’t say that it doesn’t get hot!
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pennywise and poundfoolish<- that's the landlord IMO
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Chiming in about this legal issue specifically: the tenant may could be considered inconvenient but by lease, the landlord has a legal obligation to oversee the repairs when a tenant is unavailable for any reason. As long as the tenant approved the landlord’s entrance (yeah, you need a reason to enter your own property)it didn’t matter if the tenant was sleeping in the back room. As and especially if, the AC was included in the appliances supplied per lease (we aren’t so lucky in NYC, but if the heat broke….).
Living in an Urban area, I understand there are gray issues about zoning and legal apartments that may can hurt a small owner-if the property isn’t researched before purchase–but on the other hand, I’ve seen what small owners will rent to low income people when rent control and proper zoning are not in play.
The tenant was entirely within legal rights and the landlord failed contractual obligations. Opinions to the contrary, fall under: don’t like the law because it’s a pain in your specific neck–so ignore the law.
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I think the sleep thing people are focusing on is a red herring. If he had a “normal” schedule, he and his roommate would both have been gone during the day, and it still would have been the landlord’s responsibility to get the AC people in to fix it. The big advantage of renting is that you don’t have to do things like take a day off work to wait for repairmen. The fact that he happened to be home and asleep during those times is pretty immaterial.
Anyway, in most states, the thing to do when vital repairs aren’t being made is to look into your state’s warranty of habitability. If the properties aren’t habitable or are partially inhabitable (the definition of each varies from place to place) due to vital repairs not being made or other unsafe conditions, you can legally withhold rent until they are fixed. Generally you are required to give written notice to your landlord of this fact. You might also have to go through some official hoops with the local sanitation board or equivalent agency. But that’s usually the best and most appropriate way to deal with landlords who refuse to make repairs.
And when you withhold rent in that situation, you’re not “stealing” use of the property; you’re simply not paying for what is not provided to you – a safe, functional place to live.
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Haha. This is exactly what I’ve been thinking the whole time I’ve been reading through these comments.
There’s a certain prejudice in society toward people who keep odd hours. This attitude of, “OMG you’re weird, you need to learn how to be like the rest of us or deal with the consequences” really makes me nervous. Particularly in a situation like this, where the situation would have been exactly the same if the person was on a normal schedule.
It sounds to me like the landlord wasn’t even trying to make the normal accommodations that one would make for a tenant who has to work normal hours. One might even argue that it’s in the landlord’s best interest to make sure the tenant’s work is not interfered with, since that interferes with the source of their income.
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Totally! Like, do people think that night-shift workers sleep during the day because they’re lazy? Being home and being available are two different things. Avery even mentioned that it would be fine to have the repairs done during the day as long as the landlord was responsible for letting them in/dropping off a key/whatever. I work during the day and can’t afford to take time off work, but luckily my property manager lives two doors down.
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I agree. Part of the rental agreement is the landlord is responsible for repairs, including overseeing them. It doesn’t matter why I am not available – the landlord needs to take time off from his job to oversee or pay someone else to be there. (Or discount the rent that month in exchange for me taking care of it.)
When I pay rent, I pay for the space and its maintenance. If I am responsible for certain maintenance, that should be in the lease and the rent I am charged should reflect this.
Avery is not a bad tenant. If the landlord had simply taking time off to get the A/C fixed (as is his job as a landlord), there would never have been any problem.
Sure, Avery could have made other arrangements, gotten it fixed, and then deducted that from the rent. (Assuming the landlord would actually go along with that and not think “free repair, yeah!”) But this is not Avery’s responsibility and Avery would not have been compensated for the time and inconvenience. Plus, if there are other problems in the future, this could legally confound the issues. If Avery wanted to keep full protection under the law, then certain protocols have to be followed – from written notices to documented repeated requests for repairs. Unfortunately, helping out or working with the the landlord too much can hurt your case.
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I’ve been in similar situations renting as the author (I work a day job and my husband works nights), so I get that it sucks to figure out how to get repair men in an out during normal business hours.
And while my husband and I have always been able to be somewhat more flexible than the author here, I don’t think he’s totally out of line either.
Part of the benefit of renting is not having to deal with repairs, and it’s not unreasonable to expect the landlord to have someone on hand to supervise these repairs if the tenant isn’t able to be there. It certainly sounds like the author made several attempts to get the landlord to resolve the issue before escalating to legal recourse.
For all the charges here against the author for being a “pain in the ass” tenant, it seems like it would have been a lot easier for the landlord to just take care of the air conditioner in the first place…
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Having been in a similar (though far less drastic) situation of a small time landlord not living up to the standards of a tenant, I’ll throw two thigs out here:
1. I love renting from small time landlords rather than a rental or management company. I know they have their places and make life a lot easier in terms of repairs, but I’ll sacrifice some of the convenience to support a local (even if it is 20 miles away) person.
2. Just because I’m willing to sacrifice some convenience, doesn’t mean I should sacrifice the comfort of my own home. I think there is a unwritten if not legal obligation to ensure tenants are comfortable in their home. (By comfortable, I mean able to live without health concerns or large annoyances such as blasting bass through the night). Landlords who fail to live up to this obligation are on the extreme end slumlords and on the moderate end something along the lines of a small time landlord who is ignorant of or unable to follow local rental laws.
While I wouldn’t go through the measures the poster did, I would and have fought for my rights as a tenant. If I’m living up to my end of the agreement to pay my rent in full and on time, I should be able to expect for them to live up to their end of the agreement.
As some of the commenters have noted, rental properties aren’t for everyone. Landlords end up in their situations for a number of reasons, but in the end they are a landlord and they have responsibilities as one.
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I have to chime in and say that that landlord got off easy. In Massachusetts, not only would the lack of repairs have been enough to support nonpayment of rent as long as you put it in writing, it would have been all the defense necessary in court. Instead the landlord would have been fined on top of that because any changes in rent or attempts to evict within 6 months to a year of a complaint would have automatically been ruled retaliation and gotten his charges thrown out of court. The apartment wouldn’t have been reopened until it had passed numerous state inspections.
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The landlord should have fixed the problems within 2 weeks that’s for sure.
And if he didn’t, and since the heat is unbearable, I would have fixed it myself as a tenant, and then deducted the cost from rent and prvided the receipt.
I wouldn’t go through THAT MUCH hassle as a tenant to try and make the landlord pay more and suffer.
What I would have done was spent more time trying to COMMUNICATE. Saying for the landlord only contact you in writing is ridiculous. What’s wrong with a phone call or an e-mail?
Sam
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Requiring a landlord to contact you in writing is the only way to defend yourself in court. If you talk to the landlord on the phone (and to a lesser extent, through email), there is a lot of “he said, she said”. At least when the letter is in writing there is physical evidence of the conversation.
When you’re dealing with a landlord, it’s fine to try and have a conversation with them. But take it from someone who’s been screwed by this… Get any promises IN WRITING. Period.
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After you talk on the phone, you’re always free to send the landlord an e-mail saying, “As we discussed….Please let me know immediately if I have misunderstood our agreement.” Lawyers do this all the time when they make agreements over the phone (granted these are small agreements, such as extending certain deadlines, agreeing to provide documents, etc. — not major agreements, like settling a lawsuit).
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Besides, it’s not as if written communications are unreasonably burdensome. It’s not like I asked for all communications to be sent certified return receipt requested.
At the point I went down this road, he already had 2+ weeks to do the repairs, and I was getting frustrated. I thought by doing things in writing, he’d take me a bit more seriously.
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In my experience as a renter, bad landlords tend be those of the undercapitalized variety, regardless of size. They are best avoided.
My worst landlord ever was in fact a property management company for an absentee landlord. The company had one repair person under contract to fix something like 150 properties, and the house owners had to fund repairs like replacing a broken water heater. The house had been destroyed by the previous tenant, and after extensive repairs were made, the owners were out of money. So there was always a long wait for shoddy repairs with substandard materials. Terrible. I moved out of that hellhole as soon as the lease expired.
Then a couple of years ago I was looking for a new apartment and ran into this man who (long story) was evidently looking for tenants so that he could make payments on his bubble-financed property. I didn’t want to be caught in his cash flow problem so I walked away from signing a lease. Months later I saw people move out, I think the property was being foreclosed. You need to know when to spot trouble in advance.
Best landlords ever were the owners of various Washington DC buildings where I lived. They ran prosperous companies, the large size of the buildings required on-site staff which could be counted on for quick repairs, and owners/managers were present on site every day, conducting their business.
As for lack of credit: plenty of people with bad or no credit are able to rent, e.g., recent arrivals in the country. If you have proof of income it should be no problem, as long as you don’t have a criminal history. If you nave a nice savings account and can show bank statements, that also eliminates the need for a credit history.
Finally, you can overcome any sort of bad credit by increasing the size of the security deposit and paying advanced rent. I’ve known people who pay a year in advance, and you can often get a discount when you do that.
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I disagree that the author is a “pain-in-the-ass tenant.” If you are a small-time landlord and can’t swing repairs on your property (either financially or logistically) in a timely fashion, you need to sell out and get out of the business. Period.
The rental contract is a legally binding agreement that protects EVERYONE–not just the landlord from pain-in-the-ass tenants. Sometimes it protects the tenant from a slumlord.
This is just another beautifully illustrative example of why I’ll never rent from another small-time landlord.
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The author’s experience is the same exact experience I have had with every small time landlord I’ve rented from. They expect you to help them out with just about everything, even if that means you take time off work to see that a repair gets made (which costs me money). It is really annoying, and I don’t plan on renting from one again. After enough experiences with this, you lose sympathy for them and their game.
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I have several friends who only rent from small landlords for these reasons. They tend to keep the rent low and not raise it as often in exchange for the extra help.
However, it can come back to bite you. One friend has been evicted because her landlords are tired of being landlords. They are selling. Finding another long-term low-cost rental with flexibility and land is tough around here. We moved 3 times in three years ourselves because of landlord issues.
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The fact that Avery was paying a market rate is the most important point for me. If he got a discount for making the repairs himself or for letting the repairman in, I’d find his actions more objectionable. Since he has not, then his actions are justified.
I rent so I don’t have to have the hassle of home ownership.
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“…we were paying market rates…” Well, yes and no. You wrote: “The landlord had no problem with having no credit [and Avery not making enough money on her own to rent the apartment], and we only had to put down 1/3 of the monthly rent for a deposit.” You may have paid market-equivalent rent, but you were not qualified for equivalent market rate-apartments in the traditional sense. You tried to get around the system, and you were not happy with your result. And you dragged your landlord down with you.
“This guy didn’t have a property manager, so he expected us to help with small repairs.” In other words, you knew what you were getting into and you *agreed* to the landlord’s conditions by becoming a signature on the lease. Wouldn’t that “help” include letting the repairman in, given that the landlord gave you a deal when you just did not qualify for an apartment anywhere else?
What if the landlord said, “Here’s the phone number to the A/C repair, you pay, and I’ll deduct that expense from your rent.”? Would that have been a more acceptable arrangement?
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I completely agree with those who noted that the author’s work hours are irrelevant. (from the post: ” I notified my landlord in writing that the repairs had not been made after several attempts, and that I could not be expected to be awake during their visits.”)
It is the landlord’s job to oversee repairs, not the tenant’s. I have been on both sides of this over the course of my life, renting in large complexes, renting from small-time folks, and being a small-time landlord, and I agree that the author was completely right to be irritated and to take some sort of action. (And the landlord was foolish for not having his ducks in a row.)
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I’m a small time landlord and remote to my property by a 22 hour drive, so this was a really interesting article. For me it was a good reminder that people rent so the don’t have to deal with issues. I think I’ve done a good job in the past with tenants. I have some tenants who don’t want to meet repair men and, in that case, I have a representative let the repairman in. In other cases tenants want as much privacy as possible and would rather be the one letting them in.
It does seem like a lot of trouble for both of you and if you laid out the issues for the landlord he probably would have realized the situation he was in and bent over backwards for you, but he was definitely the one who messed up.
So as a landlord myself, thanks for the article.
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Didn’t his mistake also end up costing you way more time and money because you had to MOVE!
We rented for 16 years- moving every 18 months- mostly from owners. I never had a landlord come to my house to supervise. I was not interested in having a stranger in my house when I was not present. I don’t think the landlords even asked me. And yes, we always paid market price which was often much higher than the price you paid.
Maybe it was the tone of the article that brought out the “tenant from hell” comments. I don’t think you were- but I do think you were ready to move from the place and found an easy way to get out of rent and move.
Fishing for loopholes and turning a landlord in (after you have enjoyed his property) is a bit low…but to be expected these days.
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As someone who has been renting the same house from a small-time (isn’t there a better word?) landlord for the last 8 years, I have to say that being slightly flexible and accommodating in dealing with repairs has made this rental an excellent experience. I wouldn’t expect the landlord to come out and let the handyman in if I or my husband was home. I think that’s kind of a bizarre expectation. Good grief, throw the guy a bone for your own benefit. Besides, how can a person sleep with a stranger tramping in and out of their home while they fix something? Anyway, my rent hasn’t gone up a penny, and I don’t remember the last time I saw our landlord. I wouldn’t go back to renting from an agency.
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Although I am with Avery on this one, and I don’t think any tenant should have to “throw their landlord a bone,” I do agree with you.
My roommate and I rented the top floor of an owner-occupied brownstone in Brooklyn. The landlord worked in construction so he took care of all the repairs himself – which meant he fixed things when he got around to it, and when he remembered. On the other hand, he helped us out on a lot of ridiculous small issues – replacing a lightbulb (it was a weird fixture!!), unstopping the toilet, etc.
After I moved out, my roommate got a new roommate who couldn’t afford our rent. They planned to look for a new place, but when they explained this to our landlord, he lowered the rent so they could stay.
That’s the kind of positive, mutually-beneficial (we’re great tenants) relationship you can really only develop with a “small-time” landlord.
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So after the landlord accommodated you even though you had shady credit and a low deposit in a place they weren’t supposed to rent out to you anyways, you left them with a headache and 13,000 dollars worth of loss, because you would rather sleep than answer the door to the A/C guys?
Aggravating.
Getting a job with odd hours was your choice. But life goes on and does not revolve around your schedule. How do you deal with the DMV when you need to renew your license during business hours? Check their zoning permits?
Yes, the landlord was not playing by the rules. But the way you handled it makes it sound like you enjoy complaining and love the process of playing detective and taking “financial revenge”. Not because it is warranted, but because you CAN. You seem to have no idea or sympathy for how hard it is to be a small landlord.
As a landlord myself I would suggest to other landlords: select the company, get a case number and let the tenant call to set the appointment time/date.
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I can’t help but wonder what your response would be if this was a story about a person who was required to be at work when the air conditioner needed to be fixed (like most people would be)?
Regardless of whether the author needs to sleep so that they can work, or need to actually be at work, the effect is the same. As a landlord, you better make sure your tenant is able to work, or you’re putting your own income at risk.
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In that case often people work from home for a couple hours, or take a half day. Or if they really cannot do so, they ask someone to housesit for the appointment. There is really not that much else you can do, except of course to hire someone to housesit for them. Which in this case is an unnecessary expense because someone was at the house. She just didn’t want to interrupt her sleep for a couple hours.
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Really? I have never had a landlord who would expect me to stay home from work in order to let in a repairman, and I would certainly never agree to this request. I pay rent for him or her to deal with that.
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We entered into a business transaction with the landlord. I pay for the privilege of not having to deal with repairs, and you get paid for the hassle of doing so. I’d be fine if the repairman came by during my normal waking hours (I had some that overlapped with normal business hours). So it wasn’t me being absolutely rigid.
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You pay the landlord for not having to pay for repairs. But you will still have to deal with them. It is just part of life.
Look, I don’t think you are asking too much to get your A/C fixed quickly and at a time that works for you. But you COULD have tried to deal with this another way. Maybe set up your own appointment and ask the landlord to pay for it. Or pay for it yourself and withhold the rent until fully paid. Or sue in small claims court to get the money back. Instead you spent your time researching all kinds of things irrelevant to a broken A/C unit, costing someone else 13,000 dollars. Partly their fault of course, but it is a big waste of money you set in motion.
To other tenants as well: don’t forget landlords have power too. They can start an eviction that often shows up on your credit report. And if I see that your credit application has one, and your previous landlord won’t vouch for you either, I’m definitely not renting to you. Most landlords won’t.
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My landlord had a lawyer, whom I talked to a few times. I won’t take more responsibility for setting in motion his loss of $13,000 — if his lawyer told him to drag things out (remember, he did file an eviction but never served it to me) that’s on him and his lawyer, not me. He could have resolved things much more quickly and cost effectively. The fact he didn’t is between him and his lawyer.
You said I investigated things totally irrelevant to the a/c – maybe. What happened was that I became an informed consumer, learned my rights, and realized I had a trump card that I could use to my advantage.
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I work in the apartment rental industry as a real estate broker and this was a fascinating story, and the comments were even better. Just some thoughts:
First, If you didn’t work nights, you definitely wouldn’t be home for the day. Most independent landlords I work with (and I work with over a hunded of them) pay to have some outside contractor perform maintenance, and that contractor has a key to the apartment so they can come and go as necessary. Taking time off work (or, in your case, sleep) is totally unnecessary when you rent, and a landlord who expects it is to be avoided.
You really seemed to take the path of most resistance when dealing with your landlord, though. If you were financially able, you should have paid for the repair yourself with a company that could make a visit on a weekend, then deducted the cost from rent (it would have been less than $1700, I would assume). Or, since you were so ready for court, go to court to fight the eviction arising from your failure to pay, then stay at that apartment until your lease was up. It sounds like you got your hands on this great ammunition from the City and then got a little trigger-happy.
Look, frankly, I think if you gave the landlord notice of the deficiency, gave ample time to repair the deficiency, withheld rent as penalty for failure to repair, and then dropped a bomb on the landlord when he tried to sue and evict you, then you did the right thing and kicked a slumlord right in the teeth.
Having said that, I think the story is suspect. I can’t imagine a landlord who would rather pay for an attorney to evict you rather than pay a friend or family member to open the door when the repair man shows up. It just doesn’t add up. I’m suspicious of the actual chain of events, and wonder what else was going on here.
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But, I did play nice to start. The landlord did have about 2 weeks or so to make the repairs, and when they weren’t done, I started looking into what my options were. I can’t remember how I came across the rent control laws (it’s been a few years) but once I figured out I legally owed no rent at all, that sort of changed things in my mind.
You’re right about one thing, though. I did leave something out, because I wanted to keep the story from rambling on and on. But in retrospect, it’s material:
When the a/c originally broke, the external unit was visibly not working. At some point, some repair was done, but it never really actually got cool in the unit. The landlord claimed that the repair was sufficiently done, but both my roommate and I disagreed. I went the route that I did because there was no way that I could prove that the unit got really cold when we took position, but post-repair, was quite a bit warmer. We rented the unit in part because it had a nice, cold air conditioner. So to me, it was a material aspect of our deciding to live there.
At the time, California statutes said nothing about an operable air conditioner. What it did say was that any mechanical devices functioning when the tenant took position are required to remain functioning.
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I think this extra detail may be very telling. If I understand correctly, several repairs WERE made to the AC unit, but you deemed them insufficient because the unit wasn’t cooling to the degree it previously was. So the question is, how functional was the unit after the repairs? Were temperature conditions in the apartment truly unlivable? Or was it the case that the unit had previously been able to maintain 65F, but now could only manage 78F, and you were unwilling to live with that? If it is the former, then your actions were justified, to a point. If it is the latter, you are absolutely worthy of the “pain-in-the-ass” label!
Also, the fact that you did not want to describe your intent to use your legal leverage in writing, but in fact DID use your legal leverage, shows that you knew it was unethical and wrong, if not illegal.
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Peter,
The whole temp thing is where you and I will have to agree to disagree. I don’t recall the exact temp the thing would cool down to (it was warm enough to make me uncomfortable, but certainly cool enough where you would tell me to deal with it.)
But, now we’re back to some legal issues. Let’s just say that 78 was the coolest the thing got. I *never* would have moved into a place where 78 is as good as it gets. Never. For my northern blood, it’s uncomfortably hot and does make it more difficult for me to sleep. So, you might say, “if you don’t like it, move.” Because of the rent control laws in LA, us actually moving could actually be construed as a constructive eviction, creating legal liability for the landlord, and then there’s my no-credit roomie.
So given the two options, I could argue the a/c on its merits (which admittedly would be hard) or I could argue the issue where the law is unquestionably on my side.
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Avery,
I’m replying to my original post because your comment isn’t displaying a “reply” link…
I am also from a northern state, and can see how 78F might be slightly uncomfortable, especially at night. However, I don’t think it’s grounds for accusing the landlord of not fixing the unit, and certainly doesn’t justify your retaliatory actions regarding zoning laws.
I am totally guessing here, but is it possible that the unit wasn’t getting as cold simply because it was getting to be the hottest part of summer? Had you seen it work efficiently in 120F weather before, or did you simply assume it would work as well as it had in, say, mid-spring?
I guess my point is simply that it was inappropriate to characterize the incident as the landlord shirking his repair responsibilities. Even if the unit was indeed less functional after repairs, it sounds like it was not “unlivable” by any reasonable definition. Perhaps you could have negotiated a decrease in your rent payment to reflect this change, or offered to buy a more powerful unit and split the cost with the landlord. I think either solution is reasonable. What isn’t reasonable is demanding the unit meet your higher specifications, and refusing to pay rent unless it does. If this had gone to court on those merits alone, I can guarantee you wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on.
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Ha! So as you said, there’s the landlord’s side, the tenant’s side, and then there’s the TRUTH!
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As a long-time renter, I have to blush for the author and distance myself from the bad name he gives all renters. I think his behavior was really unreasonable and out of all proportion to the landlord’s offense.
A 3 day pay or quit notice is not an eviction, it is a warning and an opportunity to knock on the landlord’s door (who lived in the very same building!) and discuss the situation one on one. If the tenant had discussed the repairs with the landlord, and even told him about the threat of the building and safety department, I’m sure he would have gotten prompt repairs.
I understand that the author was acting in compliance with law, and demanding his due rights, but sometimes it is more appropriate, reasonable and advantageous to both parties to deal with a conflict out of court.
Good luck trying to find another rental with no credit and a history of initiating legal proceedings against your previous landlord.
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In this instance the landlord lived about an hour away.
I think the writer’s roommate had no credit.
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I’m a small time landlord. I would have gotten the A/C fixed within a week or two one way or another. If I had to take off work to do so then I would have. It is the landlords responsibility to fix major habitability issues ASAP.
We’ve had our tenants heat and AC go out at least a couple times now and we’ve always gotten it fixed within a week.
I’d be very interested to hear the other side of this story.
Where near LA can it hit 120F in the summer?? That sounds more like an all time record high for a desert location. I know some cities outside LA are essentially desert and can hit highs like that but its not typical to hit 120F really and more like an all time record high. So what city is it exactly??
I don’t think the author is using the term rent control properly. Rent control means pricing controls, in other words fixed prices for rents in at least some situations. I think he’s refering to just the local landlord tenant rental laws. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure LA has no rent control.
He says: “The landlord made some efforts to make the repairs, but the repairs didn’t work or there was difficulty getting them done”
In there is a reference to repairs that didn’t work. So clearly REPAIRS WERE ATTEMPTED right? Someone was doing repairs at some point but they didn’t fix it properly. There seems to be more to this story then just the landlord expecting the tenant to let repair men in and nothing happening. Someone had done some repairs and they just didn’t fix it entirely. Whats the rest of that story? How many repair attempts were actually done and failed?? How did those repair men get into the place???
“This guy didn’t have a property manager, so he expected us to help with small repairs. My roommate was a bit of a handy man so he didn’t mind.”
Sounds like the tenants and landlord had some sort of understanding that the tenants would help with repairs. That may have been unwritten or even just a casual thing. But it is not entirely unfair for the landlord to expect the tenants to help with the repair if there was a standing expectation that the ‘bit of a handyman’ tenant would help with repairs. Ultimately though of course its the landlords responsibility to fix stuff.
The way he handled the illegal status of the duplex was not what I’d consider fair to the landlord. He gave the landlord no chance to address that and basically trapped / blind sided the landlord with it. Once he knew the unit was technically illegal he chose to then stop paying rent and go into fight over the rent. What did the tenant expect to happen? Did he expect withholding rent would just give him free housing? How long exactly did the tenant stay there rent free? Was the illegal nature of the unit really just used to punish the landlord vindictively? What did that gain for the tenant other than revenge? Why was any revenge even really necessary?
Yes the landlord should have fixed the AC sooner. Maybe the landlord was a total jerk. Maybe not. I doubt it was 120F at the time. THe landlord did make attempts to repair the AC that we don’t hear anything more about. And there was expectation that the tenants would help with repairs. Whats the rest of the story here???
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Actually, all the blacktop in LA makes it a lot hotter. I lived in SoCal, and yes, it used to get wicked-hot in LA. Possibly hotter than in the outlying desert areas (I lived there for a time too) because the outlying desert areas didn’t have all the hot car exhaust and blacktop like LA did.
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LA does have rent control laws, and all of the stuff I mentioned is baked into them. It starts with something about how (and the quote is wrong but close enough) “all units subject to this provision must have a rental certificate on file with the housing office. If said certificate is not on file, the tenant owes no rent until the situation is remedied.” It then goes on to talk about under what circumstances a landlord can evict a tenant. Regulating rent increases in only a part of it.
As far as the way I handled the illegal status, I wasn’t sure how to do that in a way that wouldn’t come across as blackmail or whatever, so I kept my mouth shut about that. At that point, I wanted a working a/c and a few bucks for the inconvenience.
The reason I wrote the story is to serve as a caution to landlords — know your properties and applicable rules. If you don’t, your tenants can make your life miserable.
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“rent control” is a specific term that means fixed rent prices. I don’t think LA has what is known as “rent control” in that the city/county doesn’t fix rent prices.
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It appears that The City of LA does have what they call a ‘rent stabilization ordinance’ which dictates that landlords can not raise rents above a certain % without permission. So for any given year they will say that you can’t raise rent more than 3% or whatever. So this IS a form of rent controls. I wasn’t aware of it. However it also appears that it doesn’t apply to homes built after 1978. I assume the property in question was older than that.
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I think it’s unreasonable of the tenant to be at home at the time of the repair, yet expect someone else to supervise it because he sleeps days and he’s sleeping. I have worked graveyard, and, I have rented all my life. I think the tenant found a way to legally take advantage of the landlord on technical grounds.
Yes the landlord left himself open. Yes the tenant took advantage. Everyone has a different level and ethics and values they live their life by, but that simply falls below mine.
If the tenant REALLY wanted to avoid “the 120 degree heat”, he would have let in the repairman and gotten the fix the landlord was offering. I walked away from this article thinking what the REAL beef was, is not having “make one call service” available, and, simply desiring to be, in the renter’s own words, “a pain in the ass”.
He went to great extremes of time and research to find the one loophole where the landlord left himself open; he could have let in the repairman etc 20 times probably, in the same amount of time and effort he spent on being “a pain in the ass”.
So he got one over on the landlord. So? I hope that gets him further ahead in his life overall, further down the path of the way of building a personally rich and satisfying life and a compelling future. But I’d be very surprised if it did.
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When is it ethical for two parties to agree to break the law? I’d say, it’s not. Here in NW Ohio, we had a case over the winter that made the news where a landlord broke the law and rented a house to a mother and her children.
The house broke the law because it had no utilities hooked up–no heat, water, or electricity–in the middle of an Ohio winter. She moved in anyway, glad to have a home. The landlord then brought over a gas-powered generator for them. He put it INSIDE the house.
Now he’s in court because the mother and all of her children are dead from carbon-monoxide poisoning from the generator that was clearly labeled “outdoor use only”, and because he broke the law renting an uninhabitable house.
The mother was well-aware that the house had no utilities, and chose to move her and her children into the house anyway. The mother and the landlord jointly agreed to blatantly break the law, and agreed to ignoring the warning label on the generator. Sadly, there are five lives lost to death, another life lost to the legal system, and many other lives irreparably altered because two people agreed to break the law.
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Avery, as someone who has worked 3rd shift and had to sleep during the day, and as someone who has rented their entire life, and as someone who has lived in SoCal for most of their life, I am behind you 100%. I know your pain, since I’ve dealt with many of the same aggravations you have. There are more shady landlords out there than people would care to admit. I was always a stellar renter too, paid rent on time always, etc. but yeah, I’ve had to deal with some of your aggravations too.
Good article!
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I used to rent in a similar situation here in NY and in my case in was the oil burner being broken in sub zero temperatures. Yes, that is below zero. No heat. Or hot water I might add. Now, the landlord was not unwilling to fix the oil burner OR pay for it or anything like that but they lived in the city, and the rental property was 60 miles north of NYC. It was a nightmare for me and I can tell you with certainty that although I rented knowing they were off-site landlords and I would have to play some party in getting things communicated to repair and maintenance people, never again. Avery, like he said, was paying a market rate rent, and although the landlord was “nice” about ignoring the credit issue, maybe that’s the reason why. They tried to avoid going the legal route but the landlord screwed that one up himself. Oh, well. The sleep thing is just a red herring; Avery just wanted the landlord to take charge of the repair (his responsibility anyway, why does everyone think the landlord was doing these tenants a favor by deigning to fix the a/c? It wasn’t like they were getting a discounted rent. Because of the credit situation? Hello, people, wake up, 30 years ago we didn’t have credit checks like we do now and more people rented then. This was his business decision, to take a risk on these tenants. Does that mean they shouldn’t be afforded the respect of having the a/c’ing fixed?) so he could sleep when his job/lifestyle afforded him the time. Not an unreasonable expectation if you’re a tenant.
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“We have laws. When is unethical or morally wrong to take advantage of said laws?”
When one hasn’t made communications in good faith or worked honestly to resolve a problem. I can’t judge whether or not that actually happened – Avery writes, “The landlord made some efforts to make the repairs, but the repairs didn’t work or there was difficulty getting them done” so it sounds like some attempt at resolving the problem was made, but ultimately the situation escalated.
I will say, every single reply Avery has made to comments on his post has been to stubbornly justify why he was actually right to do what he did. It won’t matter if anyone here thinks he’s wrong because he doesn’t think he’s wrong or want to hear it as a possibility. So yes, based on that intense inflexibility, I think Avery is a pain-in-the-ass tenant. Inflexibility makes one that way.
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But, if you think I actively prohibited my landlord from making repairs, or constructed a situation where the landlord could not have reasonably made the repairs, you’re quite mistaken.
One part that I feel is open to debate was whether or not I was in the clear for wanting a few $ knocked off the rent for the inconvenience of not having a/c for 3+ weeks in the middle of the hot LA summer. That’s like not having heat in say, Philly during the winter. You won’t die if you’re indoors, and sure you can layer up, but if your heat is out that long, you’re going to be pissed and looking for some compensation.
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The responsibilities of the tenant and landlord should be spelled out in the contract. Sometimes there are different agreements. I know landlords who give their tenants a rental discount if tenants take care of repairs themselves.
Landlords might consider giving tenants a discount of $50 each month there is no call for maintenance. If a tenant calls for maintenance, there is no discount that month; the full contracted rent must be paid. It’ll give the tenant the incentive to solve most of the problems, like changing out the light bulb in the oven, etc.
What’s worth more to you? An extra $50 of cashflow per month, or fewer demands on your time?
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That seems like a dangerous idea. Tenants might not report problems, choosing instead to live with them. Small unfixed issues can become huge and costly repairs later on. Don’t give tenants a reason not to inform you about problems with a property that you own!
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I have concerns with this idea, too. As a small-time landlord, not only is it my contractual obligation to keep my rental in good condition, but it is also to my advantage. I would much rather address problems as they come up, fix small issues before they become large ones, and avoid having lots of repairs when a tenant moves out because they didn’t tell me about issues.
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I would absolutely not pay a tenant $50 a month if there are not maintenance calls. Thats either rewarding them for my property being in good repair or settling for shoddy repair DIY work done by unqualified renters. Sure there are qualified repair people who are also renters but there are many more renters who are not capable who will tell you they are then proceed to burn down your house with a welding torch doing DIY plumbing.
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I own a home now, but I have rented quite a few places in the past. Typically I rented apartments, but my last place before now was a rental home. It was a nightmare when repairs needed to be done, and getting the security deposit back.
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this jumped out at me – “The landlord filed the eviction papers with the court, but never served them to me.”
here in minnesota, eviction (“unlawful detainer”) is automatically decided in the landlord’s favor if the tenant doesn’t show up for court. So bad landlords commonly manage to serve the summons in a way that is guaranteed not to reach the tenant. The tenant doesn’t even find out about the judgement til later when they try to rent another place and can’t because they have a UD on their record, or they try to get their deposit back and can’t because the court ruled they owe money to the landlord and the tenant never had a chance to document the truth.
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I’m curious if the service process in Minnesota is different than the one California. I think that may also be why the courts mail an FYI to the tenant, just to be safe.
But I also know that the landlord wasn’t necessarily trying to do an end-run around proper service — the 3-day pay or quit was served properly, but he hand delivered a copy of the same FYI the courts filed. (Which is definitely not proper service.)
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My husband and I rent out our home in another state from where we live. We do not use a property manager because they demand too much money and we are already breaking even between mortgage, taxes, and insurance. We just want to rent the house out until we can sell it in a better market. When we look for tenants, we make sure they understand that they will be responsible for overseeing repairs. We live nearly 2000 miles from the property so it is very important to us that they understand their responsibilities. We’ve never had an issue and I always provide options if they are not able to be there. Avery, clearly you need to continue renting from a big company. Not everyone is cut out for renting from a small-time landlord. Your situation with the “no credit” roomie is an understandable problem, but maybe that means you find a different roommate. It’s a shame you couldn’t play nice with your landlord and that s/he wasn’t willing to work with you a little more. Grow up and try to stay in a rental situation that better suits you!
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Kelly – your agreement with your tenants is fine, if it is spelled out in the lease and all parties are on board. But it’s not just a hazard of renting to smaller landlords, who are equally bound by the law and their lease agreements as larger companies. I’ve rented from several smaller landlords, all of whom have been fully willing to handle maintenance themselves (and indeed, eager, since they want to know that the work is being done correctly on their property).
Also, while it’s great that you and your tenants have come to agreeable terms, it’s kind of insulting to suggest that Avery needs to “grow up” for expecting his landlord to fulfill the terms of the contract.
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You are right, it was wrong of me to tell him to grow up. I guess my real concern is with what I perceived as the tone of his story.
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We were also absentee landlords in another state when we started having problems with our tenants. We had a local agency managing the property for us, but they stopped paying rent and it took 6 months and 2 court applications before we could legally evict the tenants(Australia), as they had ‘no where else to go’!!! The tenants argued in court that the management company had said they would make repairs, the management company told us they hadn’t, but it just came down to their word against the agency. The day they were evicted they left a mountain of stuff in the house which was described by another party as being in filthy condition. The day after that, the house mysteriously burnt to the ground. Lesson learned – even if the mgt company are doing their job, there is nothing like being on the ground yourself for occasional inspections and dialogues with tenants.
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Now *THAT* is a landlord horror story.
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Great article on how a ‘great tenant’ can turn into a ‘nightmare’ when the landlord is unable to fill their end of the deal. I work with a lot of people who rent their first homes, and I’m constantly hearing about ‘bad tenants’. However, I know to do my job well there is little time left in the off hours, certainly not enough to oversee several rental properties. I think a lot of people get into the ‘small time landlord’ business becaues they think it’s easy, or that the tenant will take as good care of their home as they did. Like Avery said – I rent so I don’t have to worry about the house. Great eye opener to counter the seemingly accepted wisdom that anyone can be a landlord.
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I think that where you stumbled on the path of being completely fair was using the law as a get-out clause just because it suited you.
If there hadn’t been an AC problem, and you’d stumbled on the information by chance, you’d have continued renting until you were ready to leave, but always keeping close to your chest the fact that you had a “get out of lease free” card in case of a problem (or if you were strapped for cash at some point and wanted the $7000 compensation)?
In which case lawbreaking isn’t something you have a problem with per se, it’s just a loophole that you found in your favor and that got you out of a lease you were finding annoying.
Starting to look less ethical to me…
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Well… there’s no way I would have stumbled on that stuff “by accident.” Remember, I found out about all of this because I wanted to know what my rights were. Had I not had a reason to go look, I wouldn’t have. It’s not like I moved in to the place as an expert on California & LA landlord tenant law, waiting for a situation to trap the landlord.
But you are missing a bit of the larger picture: The landlord never had the legal right to collect rent in the first place, so any further discussion of a lease and what-not is a discussion of a document that is essentially legally null and void.
You might follow up with: “But you and him had an agreement, non-withstanding.” Ok fine. What happens when two parties have a disagreement? They take it to court. And so here we go, arguing in front of the judge over a document that is legally unenforceable.
And that’s why I wrote this piece — it’s a “heads-up” to small time landlords that they need to be on their game, and I gave an example on how your tenants can get you over a barrel if you don’t follow the laws. We don’t live in a society where we get to pick and choose which laws we follow — we have to abide by all of them or suffer the consequences.
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Legally unenforceable? Not sure that is the correct leap you can make. Not sure that is accurate either. Only a judge can make that determination. One of the biggest hassles as a small time landlord is dealing with tenants who think they are lawyers. One neighbor had a pain in the arse tenant who after she moved in started making all sorts of outlandish demands that the landlord send someone to clean her toilets, sinks, plant flowers and not just cut the grass, and all other nonsensical stiff, and withheld several months of rent b/c she claimed he legally had to do that for her. The judge didn’t buy it, but by the time she was evicted her was out 3 months of rent. Tenants often hear or are told something from someone and suddenly think they know the law or are entitled to something they’re not or take actions based on a misinterpretation of law. It’s the same attitude as “well the landlord has my deposit, which is equal to my last month’s rent, so I’ll not pay the rent.” Umm, that rent is for damages, and if there are any, now the landlord has to sue you to get that back. Neither tenants nor landlords should seek to take matters into their own hands first without seriously talking to each other and making reasonable accomodations for the other party’s situation.
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I meant that deposit is for damages
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I’m a shift worker also (though I rotate through 1st 2nd AND 3rd shift). As a shift worker you can’t expect the world to accommodate your schedule! If you wanted the air conditioner fixed THAT bad then you should have interrupted your sleep to get it done. This is why shift work is so bad for your health. Because you will often find yourself interrupting your sleep to get things done that you can’t get done at any other time.
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I work overnight shift routinely. NO ONE gets to fix ANYTHING in my apartment without me being present and awake. Because if I come home and something of mine is missing or broken trust that the repair men will claim they have no idea what happened. So I’ve had to stay up, when I should have been sleeping, while the repair men fixed the faucet, or the cable guy fixed my cable or internet. It sucks but it’s just one of the MANY perils of being a shift worker.
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I rent a very old mobile home that is not in the best of repair. Where I live if you complain too much you’re out,labeled as a problem with no where to go. I take this in stride; like being where I am (in a country setting)my landlord allows me to have my animals. Repairs are gradual (sometimes more than a year for a repair) which can be frustrating. Far as A/C I bought window units had them put in on my own. I do what can be done on my end to make things comfortable. What Avery did is understandable, it is a landowners/landlords responsiblity to maintain their property on their time. A tennant could/should be flexable, and cooperative. Avery worked late nights and did what was best for Avery, as most tennants do what is best for their situation at the time.
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I’ve been both rental property owner and tenant. While property owner, I’ve endured: earthquake damage, break-ins, eviction of tenants (for not paying rent, not for the situation described here), and damaged appliances. While tenant, I’ve been much less stressed and much happier. For the love of all that is good and holy – if you’re a small investor considering buying rental properties, do yourself a huge favor: put the money in stocks, bonds, commodities, or comic books. You’ll be much better off. The aspiring landlords that see nothing but dollar signs in their futures are the ones heading down the path described in this post. And, I don’t blame the above tenant one bit for causing so much trouble for this particular landlord. Most of the time, the “pain-in-the-ass” tenant is nowhere near justified in being the pain.
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I’ve been both a tenant and landlord (one house). I had very good and very bad tenants. As the story unfolded in the comments, it seems as though this was a case of unhappiness with a repair and not unhappiness with no repair. Those are different scenarios in my estimation. As for timing of repairmen access, either the tenant lets them in or the landlord pays for someone to gain access.
I’d like to hear the landlord’s side of the story here as the author’s adamancy regarding his innocence leads me to believe there were definitely two sides to this story.
Landlording, like any profession, has its good parts and bad parts. When you are dealing with people in general, you run the gamut as well. In this case, I think that the fact that both the tenant and the landlord were possibly dealing with more negatives (poor/no credit history; unauthorized/unzoned use of residence for rental) than are usual in the business relationship, the probability of a negative outcome for the relationship increased.
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In this economy, small-time landlords are not necessarily landlords by choice. As a small-time landlord, I’m disheartened by the comments on this post (both against the landlord and the tenant) and the original story.
I feel for both the landlord and tenant. Being a renter, I agree the major appeal is not to have to deal with repairs. However, no equipment is infallible, and repairs/replacement is part of any property. Being a landlord with a misclassified property might have been a difficult situation for the landlord, as well. Time and money are not necessarily within the small-time landlord’s means, even if it’s their responsibility. So, I think the view that the landlord was intentionally violating the law is a bit harsh.
As a small-time landlord who worked night-shift, repairs are exceedingly difficult to coordinate. It is certainly in my own best interest to oversee, so the property isn’t put at risk with shoddy workmanship. In these circumstances, I have definitely appealed to the tenant’s good graces – help oversee/let in a repairman so the repairs can be done asap, but I’d need to follow up with an inspection as soon as I could adjust my schedule to facilitate it. As a shift-nurse at an understaffed rehab facility, it can sometimes take a couple weeks to coordinate with other nurses.
It seems odd to me that the tenant was so adamant about being inconvenienced once, when the bigger picture would have benefited him in the long run. This may be due to other failings on the landlord’s part, but I guess I am missing why “sleeping” (b/c I don’t think you can really sleep in that temp) in 120 degree temps regularly is better than being interrupted one day to get much more restful sleep the next day.
I think less rigidity on both parties parts – in their views of responsibility and their rights, and some consideration of each other’s circumstances would have resulted in a far less costly outcome.
To the commenters, consider that not all small-time landlords are not landlords as a source of income or as a side-business. Everyone’s got a story and their own difficulties in their life situation. Hard times make for hard choices, a little consideration would make everyone’s life a bit better.
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“I think the view that the landlord was intentionally violating the law is a bit harsh.”
Agreed. I don’t see any evidence here at all that the illegal nature of the rental was intentional on the part of the landlord. It may have been, but it may certainly have been totally unintentional. There are many rentals which are not properly legal then sold to new owners who assume (wrongly, ignorantly) that their property is legal because its sold as a rental. The landlord may not have known his property was illegal.
He should have done the research and made sure. But people make mistakes.. Doesn’t mean he was a bad guy or did this on purpose to screw people.
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Sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for not checking to see if you can legally rent part of your home. I would bet that a lot of things were done to that house without building permits as well, and that will really come back to bite the landlord in the arse. As it should!
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Ignorance isn’t an excuse. But its also not malicious in nature. I bet if you did a survey of single property landlords asking them if they checked if their property could be legally rented and if it legally qualified as a legal property that less than half would say they did the legal research required. Not saying this is good or OK, but its the reality.
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Avery said, “This guy didn’t have a property manager, so he expected us to help with small repairs.” If my reading comprehension is correct, I understand this to mean that Avery and his roommate understood before renting that the landlord would not be in charge of small repairs. (correct me if I’m wrong)
So why didn’t Avery and his roommate help with this small repair, as they’d agreed to before moving in?
I think the landlord was wrong in a legal sense because it wasn’t in the lease (and his reaction was very foolish), but Avery and his roommate still acted like jerks by making promises and not keeping them.
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We agreed to nothing that wasn’t in the written lease. “Expect” can be interpreted as: “There’s a leaky sink.” “Oh, can you see what you can do about it?” “Yeah, no problem.” Repeat as necessary.
So are you suggesting that because my roommate would make small repairs that we should automatically be expected to make large ones too? If that’s the case, no one should ever help out the small-time landlord unless it’s explicitly in writing, and there’s an associated reduction in rent.
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Hi Avery,
I was just saying that the way I understood it, you both knew that you were renting from somebody who expected you to take care of stuff like that. That’s the agreement I have with my landlady. It’s not in our lease, but we know that she lives an hour away… so she pays for repairs, but we oversee them. It’s never been a big deal.
If I understood wrong and that’s not the case, then your landlord sounds like the one to blame here.
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After all of these horror stories about terrible tenants, it’s about time we heard about incompetent landlords.
Every time I read one of the many GRS stories about rotten tenants, I recall when I rented (15 years over many landlords) and wonder, “Why were my landlords so shitty to me, then? I was a model tenant.”
If landlord would treat their good tenants properly, maybe they wouldn’t have so many bad tenants to complain about.
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I am going to have to side with Avery. He does sound like he may have been a bit of a pain but when you rent you do so for convenience. He pays extra to not have to deal with the BS. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that people think he should have had to let the repairman in. He has said he was willing to let them in during certain hours and that is being gracious. A rental agreement doesn’t say you have to miss work or lose sleep for a repair… Its not his responsibility. Some jobs don’t let you call out on a whim and it sounds like he did try to help out at the beginning but after a few days in 120+ degree heat I would probably have been very very pissed as well.
You complain about him being a renter from hell but wait until it is close to 100 degrees and turn off your A/C for a week and see how you feel… I bet you won’t be the happiest person in the world.
Also what if the situation had been different. States have laws about what is legally allowed to be rented for a reason! This duplex was most likely not inspected properly and could have had a host of problems. He may have been paying for the other units electricity (not that bad but unfair). What happened if a fire had occurred in the other unit because of improper electric connections that then caused damage to his stuff or himself/room mate then you would call the landlord a slum lord potentially.
It sounds like once he found out his rights he used them. Had he screwed a big corporation people would be cheering for him but because it was a small time landlord he is at fault? He was smart not trying to use the information to blackmail his landlord like some people had suggested but I think even if things had been resolved I would not have felt safe staying in the home if it was not up to code.
A lot of electrical fires and gas explosions etc occur because things are not up to code. What happens if he moved out and the next tenant came in and something happened in the house that cause an injury to that tenant. If as a landlord you expect to rent out a property it better be up to code otherwise I HOPE you are reported and hope you face fines. The law is there to protect people! Those laws also equally protect landlords!
As a side note once I found out the property was not a legal dwelling I would have moved out and informed the other tenants as well as the landlord and the state. Yes I would be considered a pain in the ass by some of you but I would be happy knowing that if something were to happen that I did my best to protect everyone.
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So you didnt see a red flag when the landlord would rent to you with NO CREDIT? You were lucky to get an apt at all as no landlord in their right mind would rent to someone in this day and age without good credit AND a background check. I dont agree with you at all and you should have been willing to lose a little sleep to open the door for the repairman. Everyone has to inconvenience themselves in life to get something they want or even need. EVERYONE.
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My roomie had no credit, mine was fine. So it’s not as if they were knowingly renting to a bunch of deadbeats.
That said, are you suggesting that people with no credit deserve substandard treatment while paying market rates? That people with no credit should be “forced” to live in buildings that aren’t up to code?
I sort of get the impression from your comment that you think we “asked for it.” If my landlord thought anything like you, is there even the slightest wonder why the situation ended as it did?
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Not that you asked for it but I think there was a red flag there. And it just seems like it would have been so easily solved if you had been willing to lose a little sleep to get the A/C. yes it probably IS the landlord’s responsibility to get the repair done but I think you could have been a little more willing to help, even if you were inconvenienced. It didn’t end well for anyone. And I dont know the answer to how people with no credit get apartments-I obviously dont know the answers to a lot of the questions raised in this article. But it’s a dog eat dog world out there for landlords as well as tenants and no easy answers.
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“That said, are you suggesting that people with no credit deserve substandard treatment while paying market rates? That people with no credit should be ‘forced’ to live in buildings that aren’t up to code?”
Substandard treatment? You got a great apartment, although you do not think so, with no credit check and you paid far less of a deposit than most people do.
Forced? Who forced you?
Aren’t up to code? On a technicality? By your account here, your apartment was not uninhabitable.
As a renter myself, I am perplexed by your heavy-handed litigious reaction, when you yourself could have called an A/C repair service and likely worked out a more convenient time and deducted the expense from your rent.
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