This post is from staff writer April Dykman.
Remember, dear readers, when I warned you about store credit cards last year? I told you about a study that found that 35 major New York City stores had an average interest rate of 23.83% on store cards, when the national average APR for a regular credit card was at 14.78%. (Radio Shack had the worst rate at 28.99% APR, with Best Buy and Staples falling closely behind at 27.99%.)
I told you, quite proudly, that when asked if I want to open a store card account, I always tell the cashier, “I don’t carry store credit cards,” and I repeat myself as many times as necessary.
I told you, “…it’s important to be on guard. By and large, these cards aren’t worth the hassle or the risk. Credit is serious business, not something to sign up for on the spur of the moment without reading the fine print.”
Well, this is the story of how I got suckered into opening a store credit card and what I learned from it.
It was the best of experiences, it was the worst of experiences…
Last week, I ventured into Neiman Marcus for the first time. It was the only in-person store that carried the Stuff I wanted, so I drove out of my way to go there. The salesperson who helped me was probably one of the best I’ve ever encountered. She knew I wasn’t spending much — about $60 — but she spent a considerable about of time helping me. She was friendly, extremely knowledgeable, and showed me other products she thought I’d like without pushing me to buy more. Instead, she offered to send me home with samples of her additional recommendations. As she put everything into a bag, the second salesperson helped to start the check-out process, which went something like this:
Salesperson #2: Do you want to put this on your Neiman’s charge card?
Me: No, I don’t carry store credit cards. (I hand her my MasterCard.)
Salesperson #2: We don’t take MasterCard, but it takes just a few minutes to open a store account.
Me: No thanks, I don’t open store cards. Can I put it on a Visa debit card?
Salesperson #2: We don’t take Visa, either.
Me: If you don’t take Visa or MasterCard, what do you take?
Salesperson #2: We take the Neiman’s card, American Express, cash, and checks.
I didn’t have enough cash on me, I don’t carry checks, and I don’t have an American Express card. The first salesperson seemed too uncomfortable to push me into opening an account, so salesperson #2 continued with the pitch, telling me most of what I knew already — that I won’t have to pay interest if I pay my balance each month and that the card comes with all kinds of “fabulous” rewards. She also told me that Neiman’s will never sell my personal information (this, of course, turns out to be false).
The lowdown on Neiman’s
I found out later that Neiman’s does take Visa and MasterCard, but only for online purchases. It’s even willing to temporarily relax its rules during Super Bowl XLV “to make it easier for customers visiting from out of town…or from cities that don’t have a Neiman Marcus store.” Gee, how thoughtful!
According to Slate, the private-label credit card corner was one one of the most desired parts of the business when it sold during a 2005 auction (HSBC purchased the credit card portfolio in mid-2005 for $640 million.) At the time, there were 562,000 active users paying 15% APR — generating about $550 million in receivables for the company.
I knew store credit was big business, but I’d never encountered a store that doesn’t accept major credit cards to push customers into opening a store credit line.
Under pressure
Back to my in-store experience: I was feeling cornered and conned. My first thought was to walk away. Now that I knew exactly what I needed, I could purchase the item from another retailer online.
But here’s the thing: I wouldn’t know what to buy if it hadn’t been for salesperson #1, the person who spent a lot of time helping me even though she knew I wasn’t spending much money. She more than earned her commission, and I felt bad about walking out. There weren’t any ATMs nearby, and I had an appointment in about 15 minutes. I was feeling pressured. On the other hand, I was mad and felt as though I’d walked into a trap.
I caved, and I opened the account to make the purchase. But I’m calling Neiman Marcus to pay the balance and cancel the card.
I know Neiman’s won’t miss my business — I’m hardly their target customer. For example, one of the benefits of “Circle Two” membership (for the busiest of Neiman’s charge card users) is fur storage, which made me giggle. I’m the kind of gal who worries that someone might mistake her faux fur coat for the real thing. The cover of the InCircle member brochure asks, “Are you a member of the in crowd?” Uh, no. Not usually.
Lessons learned
In retrospect (and sarcasm aside), there were better ways to handle the situation that would have given the salesperson credit for the sale and would have avoided me opening a store card I absolutely do not want.
When I told my husband what had happened, he had the perfect solution: “You could’ve asked the salesperson for her name and told her you’d come back to pay in cash.”
Yes, that is exactly what I should have done. But when I was in the situation, I wasn’t thinking clearly. I felt pressured, irritated, and that I had to make a choice right then and there, when I really didn’t.
(Also, I was reminded that I should carry at least one paper check with me. I used to do this, but fell out of the habit because it was so rare that I ever needed one. Now I’ve tucked one into my wallet again to have one more payment option.)
I never, ever thought I’d open a store card. I’m disappointed that I let it happen, but at least I can amend the situation. I certainly now understand, from firsthand experience, how tricky retailers can be when it comes to pressuring consumers into opening store credit cards.
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I remember the one time I opened a store card was when I purchased my wife’s engagement ring. I think they said it was a “requirement” for me to get the “negotiated price” that I had to open the card. I later learned that most jewelry stores are not in the business of selling jewelry–they are in the business of collecting interest on debts. That’s exactly what a banker once told me, and I found that really interesting. He said many stores break even or close to it on their merchandise and are really (semi-secretly) in the credit industry. I too found it a pain in the neck because when I tried to cancel the card (after having paid off the engagement ring) they made it really difficult. I think that “closed card” still shows up on my credit reports so maybe I need to look into that part of it as well. Bottom line: got to be careful with the store credit cards. Thanks April for being honest about getting “suckered in”, it happens to the best of us.
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Same here. That’s the store card I have. I thought I was going to earn a lot of interest on the delayed payments, but since I have to go into the store to pay the monthly bill, I almost missed one, and decided it wasn’t worth it.
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That’s crazy! I would think that most people would want to use Visa or Mastercard at an expensive department store. Someone like me would be aghast and just walk out. Not accepting regular credit cards is something one expects at small food stores in far-flung neighborhoods, not major department stores.
Thanks for the interesting story!
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It seems ridiculous that they don’t accept Visa/Mastercard. I would have just left and come back to pay with cash later. I don’t know anything about exclusive stores though. I guess taking the name of the sales person is the way to go. How much commission do they get anyway?
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right?! who doesn’t take visa/mc? that’s just insane. i would have left too.
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We all make mistakes.
The thing I found most amazing about this article was the fact that the store takes checks. I didn’t think that ever happened anymore.
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Yes, they take checks, but they also require your social security number as I found out the one time I also tried to by something there last year. I refused to give it to them as I didn’t think it was any of their business, especially as my driver’s license should have been sufficient proof. I subsequently walked out without making the purchase!
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We recently joined Costco and they only take debit, check, cash or their American Express card. But at least they were upfront about it when we signed up for a membership. That’s really weird that Neiman Marcus doesn’t at least take debit.
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I got duped into signing up with for a CC when I joined Costco. The guy took us around the store, bragging about their premium nuts (no joke) and then finished the pitch by telling us that to become a member it was $100/yr plus you had to enroll in a Costco Amex card, but it’s all good because the Amex card pays cashback and Costco will guarantee you at least $50/yr if you don’t rack up that much in cashback. Later I found out that I was duped into signing up for the “Executive Membership” and that I could have just paid $50 and signed up for a regular, no cashback membership
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We have the Costco Executive Membership. What the salesperson was telling you is that if you don’t earn enough cashback to make the Executive worth it (an extra $50), they will reduce your membership to the regular Costco Membership (and deduct the extra $50). Basically, if you earn $75 off the Executive, but would have only earned $10 on the regular – it was worth it to pay the extra $50 because you got $65 in benefits. If the difference is less than $50, they’ll refund you the $50 back and downgrade your membership for the previous year.
Costco is one of the big-box stores I really respect, and this is one of the reasons why. As long as you’re on top of it, you can get the best of whatever membership happened to be right for you. The trouble is if you spend for the Executive, and then never follow up with the rewards check to make sure it was worth it.
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Elizabeth is right, you’re confusing two separate things.
I have the executive membership which costs $100 upfront but ends up nearly free after cash back.
There is also the option of applying for the Costco AMEX card, but that’s a whole separate issue.
Apples/oranges.
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Alternatively, Sam’s Club only takes Discover (and debit, cash).
I believe the reason behind it is that the Merchant sets up a deal with the CC company for discounted merchant fees in exchange for their CC being the only one accepted. This saves the Merchant money and guarantees the CC company revenue.
As for Neiman’s, the vast majority of their targeted clientele carry AMEX, and use it almost exclusively, which is why this arrangement works. They target a very specific demographic in their business model. It likely wouldn’t pay off to accept all other forms of payment, given the trade off of higher AMEX fees in addition to other CC fees, for a relatively insignificant increase in business from persons who do not carry AMEX.
AMEX is all I carry, actually, because they have, by and large, the absolute best service and perks for cardholders (in my experience). They also have some of the highest merchant fees, which is why many smaller merchants don’t accept AMEX.
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I agree with the comment about AmEx’s service. AmEx has been my primary card for more than a decade, because I so appreciate their customer service. I do carry a VISA from my credit union for backup, because so many places don’t accept AmEx.
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Not sure if it’s a regional or per store thing, but the Sam’s Club by me accepts MasterCard.
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The Sam’s Club near me only takes Discover – same for the ones when I lived in Memphis.
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The Sam’s by me accepts Mastercard now too, but for a while they were playing the “Discover only” game. I thought they dropped that policy when people got upset about it (like my parents). It never really bothered me, since they still take debit cards.
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I thought our Sam’s Club only took Mastercard and not discover… Either way, we ended up switching to Costco and now just use our debit card. We thought about signing up for AMEX, but so many places don’t accept it, and we don’t want to actively use two credit cards.
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Also keep in mind every time you open a new account, it will decrease your FICO score. First of all, there’s an inquiry into your credit, which reduces your score, and then you have the ability to charge more, so the credit bureaus think you will, which lowers your score as well.
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This is how misinformation is spread.
False. You score will decrease 2-5 points on the inquiry, however will go UP do to that fact that you have now reduced your credit utilization percentage (as no you are using less cummilitive vs you total allowed amount).
Generay speaking, the effect on your score is negliable at best.
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Definitely agree with Jay on the misconceptions that are spread about credit scores!
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I don’t think it’s going to help when she closes the account right away, though.
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Sorry, I can say from experience that this is not always true. I used to have just one credit card. Then, I opened up 2-3 more in the space of about 6-9 months. My credit score went up about 10 points. The reason? My credit limit soared, which improved my credit utilization score and ultimately my whole score.
On a different note, the fact that the store doesn’t take Mastercard/Visa is very surprising to me. If I was in that situation, I would have just walked away at that point. Frustrating, but the last thing I need is a store credit card.
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I smell a post here, JD: I totally thought any inquiry into one’s credit history automatically lowered one’s FICO score, too.
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I had this same issue years ago when I was considering a membership to Sam’s Club. They only took their in-house credit or Discover. In the end, I refused to shop there.
As I understand it, AmEx and Discover have this “exclusivity” with a few retailers as they are smaller the the Visa/Mastercard duolopoly. I won’t shop at places that don’t accept my cards, but I understand. There must be far smarter people in the business office making the decision to go this way.
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I only use an AMEX card, and I’ve definitely been burned by selecting that card to carry. Many smaller merchants don’t accept the card, so I’m left hoping I have enough cash or my Debit MC on hand to pay with instead. I wouldn’t trade my AMEX for anything, though. The perks are too good.
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Many small businesses don’t accept AMEX because AMEX charges them more in fees than Visa or Mastercard. (At least that’s the case here in Canada. Not sure AMEX is as popular here!)
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Yes, I know that is why. And I definitely don’t fault those businesses for doing so and I gladly visit them with cash instead. However, for me, AMEX is better as a result of what those fees cover: excellent purchase protection, insurance, and fraud protection, to name a few. So, especially for big ticket purchases, I always use my AMEX.
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Figured you probably did know, but others might not
Incidentally, I know someone who was forced to sign up for an AMEX card at Costco because the purchase was too large to debit. Go figure!
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I’m curious….what benefits do you get with an AmEx you can’t get with *any* Visa/MC? I’ve thought about carrying one but could never get around the fact some merchants don’t accept it.
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A couple examples: They have the best purchase protection for consumers. They offer warranties on many purchased products for loss, theft, or damage within 30-90 days+. Same with fraudulent vendors, etc. They have the best customer service in general and the easiest fraud resolution process. Report it, they take it off your bill and don’t pay the merchant or require payment until it’s resolved. They are a kind of known for being a cardholder’s-card, rather than a merchant’s-card, if that makes sense. There are a host of other reasons, just check out the AMEX site and compare it to your own card. Visa or Mastercard may have some similar offerings, but AMEX won me over years ago and their service is still the best, IMO, and I’ve each major credit card at one time or two. (And no, I’m not employed by AMEX, just like their card)
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Why close it unless there is an associated fee? I’ve opened several store credit cards for major purchases just to get the zero financing and then just left them open knowing full and well I have no intention of using them again. I don’t think there is any harm to that. Doesn’t closing the card hurt your credit score too?
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I’m curious if anyone knows the answer to this. I opened a store CC with Victoria’s Secret a few years ago and got some great deals with it, but I don’t really use it anymore. There are no fees, so am I better off closing it or just leaving it open?
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You are opening yourself up to potential fraud by having more credit cards open, but it’s very, very slim. And from my experience you have to be using the card (either physically or online) to have the number out there to be stolen. I suppose if someone hacked the Victoria’s Secret database they could get your number.
IT can also effect your credit score as it’s potential debt you could rack up. But again – if you have your finances under control it’s probably not going to effect it. I have several opened, but unused cc accounts and my score is still above 800.
And, of course, there is always temptation. Some people might have a problem having an open credit card and be tempted to rack up debt. But it doesn’t sound like you fall in this category.
I don’t carry inactive credit cards in my purse in case my wallet is stolen. Your best bet is either cut them up or hide them some place in case you have a burglary (put them in a ziploc bag and stick in the refrigerator LOL!)
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I’m dealing with a fraudulent charge (of over $1500) on a card that I only opened to pay for a home improvement project. I should have just paid cash! I was pressured into the card, and because that was the most convenient option at the time I went with it.
I never used it except for the initial purchase. The initial purchase was forms filled out on my kitchen table. I immediately set up automatic payments well over the minimum. At first I would check it every month, then every other month. When I looked this month – with the intention of finally just paying it off – I saw the charge. It was made in January. I got so complacent I didn’t check the card for five months!
I have absolutely no idea how the criminal got my credit card information, but now I have to deal with it, just because I was suckered by a “good deal”.
Lesson learned – a new credit card, no matter the financing or convenience – is NEVER a good deal when the first you hear of it is from someone selling you something!
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A lot of CC companies will put your card into an inactive status or even cancel it for you after a certain period of non-use. I had a Capital One Visa ages ago and didn’t use it for years. After three years, they sent me a mailing saying that had closed the account due to inactivity. Alternatively, I had a Discover card for the same period of time that I never used. Rather than cancel, they moved the card to an inactive status that would require me to contact them in order to start using the card again. In that case, the account history remained on my credit report as an open account in good standing.
You may want to call to confirm how they treat inactive accounts, if it bothers you to have open. I would leave it open, if you can, especially if it is your oldest instance of credit. Closing an account (esp your oldest one), shortens your credit history and can reduce your credit/debt ratio, both of which affect your credit scores.
For those that don’t know what I mean by credit/debt ratio:
If you have 3 cards with $10,000 of credit, and you rotate a balance of $2,000 on it, you have a credit-debt ration of 20%. If you close a card that accounts for $5,000 of your credit, then you have increased your credit-debit ratio to 40%. Not good for your credit scores.
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I think the answer depends on what you want to do, as far as your financial goals. I don’t like orchestrating my life around credit card perks, opening this one, closing that one – trying to track this one. My ultimate goal is for a simple financial life – just one credit card irrespective of the impact on my credit score. I want to devote more time to learning about investing and I have seven good titles I want to read. Time is a finite resource. I can respect other people going in another direction.
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As mentioned, the cons are an open card that could be hacked – the pros are a longer history and higher available credit.
I also have a VS card that I haven’t used in more than a year – but I keep it open because:
A) it’s my oldest card – and the history is good
B) I get free undies and coupons from VS as a member
C) I check it at least every month or two to make sure there is no activity so I’m safe from hackers
Honestly, the only reason not to keep store cards open is keeping track of them. I keep any unused cards in one area, together, and make a note to check on the activity every once in awhile (and have the company send me an email with activity).
As long as you have no balance on them and you know where they are and you check your credit report (which you should do at least once to twice a year – its’ free after all for one and some states give you more free!) then there’s no reason to close them. The people that get into trouble are the ones that keep a balance on it and pay that high interest rate.
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Thanks, KC and Megan! I only got the CC for the deals. Whenever I’ve used it, I’ll pay with the card then pay it off with cash immediately.
I haven’t been keeping up with it since I stopped using it, though, so I’ll have to start doing that. Thanks for the advice!
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I close them because then in 6 months I can open a new card and get the intro deals again. I’ve opened Lowes card accounts about 5 times now, each time getting 20% off that day’s purchases. As soon as I get my card in the mail, I call the number, activate the card, ask for a payoff amount and send the check. A week later I call and confirm that they have applied the credit and the balance is zero, and cancel the account.
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Just before Circuit City went under, I attempted to get store credit for my computer purchase. I had the cash but didn’t want to spend it. I filled out the application and waited about 5 minutes before I was asked to talk to someone on the phone. The person on the other end had a very thick accent, the line was not very good and the store was noisy. In any event, the person on the other end of the phone was asking me questions about my life’s credit 30 yrs ago. What was up with that?
Long story short, I paid cash and was happy that I had done so because the following week the Circuit City stores closed.
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I don’t think you made a bad decision. You drove out of your way to go to Nieman Marcus. You will not be paying any interest. Your actions were probably the fastest way to deal with the situation. No real harm done.
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Actually she benefited because she got something to write about without having to do any research. Although I have to say, to continue the literary motif, this seems much ado about nothing.
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Since when does every blog post have to be a mini-dissertation replete with footnotes. I think anecdotal stories can be equally instructive…
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Here here DreamChaser. I learned something practical from this “light” post. I had no idea that there were retailers who don’t take Visa/MC. It will save me from some frustrating experiences, and was worth the read.
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Gee Catherine, good thing she did post this story so you could seize the opportunity to make a purposeless, snarky comment.
I appreciate these anecdotal stories as well. After reading this one, it helps me not feel like such a dupe for all of the times that I’ve made financial decisions under pressure and later questioned myself. I’m apparently in good company.
I probably would have done what April did and pay the balance in full.
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I don’t understand the issue with carrying a store credit card IF you pay your balance in full. Yes, I understand the high interest rates, but if you are paying in full and you shop that store often, why not benefit from the perks of being a cardholder?
I carry a couple store credit cards, though I only use one often. That card has saved me a small fortune on clothing purchases over the years. I get the best sales news, discounts and cardholder-only deals for use on clothing I would purchase regardless. Plus, I earn points towards gift cards. Major win for me and I never pay interest because I only buy what I could afford to buy in cash on the spot and I have the card set up to auto-pay in full on the due date.
I also have a couple store cards I haven’t used in ages. I opened them when I was in high school and college to build credit and have left them open to keep my credit history in tact.
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Even well-managed store credit cards can cause problems. Besides encouraging you to spend on things you don’t need because you’re getting a “bargain,” they can also lower your credit score.
Store credit cards can lower your score in two ways:
1) Every time someone runs a credit report to offer you a card, your score drops.
2) Store credit cards are “less desirable” than major credit cards and can drag down your “credit mix.” Department and specialty stores offer their credit cards through finance companies which don’t look as good for calculating your score than a mix of credit from more discriminating companies.
Making sure your credit score is as high as it can be will save you money on insurance, interest on loans, and your mortgage.
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As Jay stated above:
“False. You score will decrease 2-5 points on the inquiry, however will go UP do to that fact that you have now reduced your credit utilization percentage (as no you are using less cummilitive vs you total allowed amount).
Generay speaking, the effect on your score is negliable at best.”
If I am not opening every possible card available and running up the limit and carrying balances, the impact on my credit is negligible, regardless of the type of credit extended. Even with several store credit cards, in addition to several major credit cards, my credit score is perfect. It really depends on how you manage and use your credit.
And, regarding your comment on purchasing merely as a result of sales or other discounts, you are correct. If you are spending money you wouldn’t otherwise just to “save” on something you don’t need, you aren’t actually saving. If, however, you already intend to purchase the items and, because you are a cardholder, you receive special benefits or discounts, I’d say that’s a big win.
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True points, but don’t let the credit score game turn you into a dope. What’s the difference between a 812 and a 796? Zero. I have store cards at Kohls and New York & Co. because of the regular discounts they offer. My credit score is still 796. The highest it ever was before I got the store cards was 812.
For virtually all banks and insurance companies, the top rate tier cutoff is 760. Anything above that is just gravy. Worrying about a few points when your score is already over 800 is only for bragging rights–it has no tangible effect on your pocketbook.
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I totally agree with this. I use CCs and haven’t paid a penny in interest in decades. And there have been tons of percs. I have one store credit card, pay it off immediately when I use it, and have gotten lots of bonuses. What’s the problem?
And I have an excellent credit score.
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Probably should have mentioned this, but for me, it’s just that I don’t want to keep up with several credit lines. Plus, if I did have a store card, I’d rather have one for a place I visit frequently. I’ll never spend enough to qualify for most of the perks at NM, and some, like fur storage, are things I’d never use.
I do know people who have store cards and use them for the discounts, though.
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I agree with this. No point in opening up a card for which you have no use.
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I don’t generally like store cards either, but Target is an exception for me. Recently they started offering 5% off all of your purchases on the Target card. It’s not and introductory or promotional thing, you get the discount all the time off of everything you buy. I do most of my shopping for general goods and a lot of my grocery shopping at target anyway. I end up spending thousands of dollars every year, so a 5% savings is a pretty big thing.
On top of that, if you use Target pharmacy for your Rx, they have a program where every 5 prescriptions that you fill (and pay for using the Target card) you get a coupon for 5% off of a day of shopping. This is in addition to the 5% you get off anyway. My wife and I wait for the extra 5% off coupon and then stock up on essentials like soap and shampoo and whatnot.
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Beware the Target card, their customer service is horrible. I hopped right in and got one when they announced the 5% off as it is a better deal than my American Express Blue Cash card. I have great credit, but Target only gave me a line of $600 when I opened the card. That sounds like plenty, but I do all of my grocery and household shopping at Super Target. I paid my balance in full each month, then they declined my card one day. I called customer service to find out why as the payment had already cleared my bank and I was at less than half the card’s limit. Target informed me they may place bank holds on payments for up to 10 days. Ridiculous, as they already have my money. I then asked for them to raise my limit so I could continue with my monthly shopping and avoid any time issues placed by their bank holds. The customer service rep told me all limits are set during periodic account reviews. Aka, I can’t do anything, it’s all done by computers. She was unable to clear the hold, request a review on my account, or do anything beyond pass me to her supervisor who was also unable to help me. Long story short, the Target card went into the filing cabinet and isn’t coming out. I’ll use my Amex with great customer service.
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Maybe I am missing something here but (1) most store cards have no associated annual fee and (2) the interest rate s 0.0 if you pay in full each month. Am I missing something?
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What still surprises many people is that opening a store credit card will lower your credit score. On average, it’s only about 3-8 points. But if you succumb to the discount offers a few times during back to school shopping or the holidays, you can see a pretty big hit.
So I guess Neiman’s isn’t unique and exclusive after all.
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The sales representative should have told you that you were able to go to customer service and buy yourself a gift card (with your visa or mastercard) and use it for your purchase.
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The last time I tried to do that, they said it was only possible if your visa/mc was issued by a foreign bank.
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I like April’s hubby’s idea! I’ll have to keep that in mind.
I’ve mostly stopped shopping in one of the largest retail chains here in Canada because of the constant pressure to sign up. Problem is, you only get their best sales and discounts if you have this card, and I think prices are inflated to compensate. (Plus I really hate it when the sales staff say “If you had signed up, you would have saved this much…”)
I don’t have issues with credit cards, but I don’t want a whole wallet full of them. I wonder what happens to people’s credit ratings if they sign up for all these store credit cards?
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Were you, buy chance, purchasing perfume? I am a perfume vendor for a major department store. I work with customers for large amounts of time – trying to find the perfect scent or gift. The worst thing that can happen is the customer walks away and says they’ll be back at another time. I do not then, get credit for the sale (which I have to call into my company each day). Even if you take my name, I do not get credit for the sale as I do not work for the store – I work for the perfume company. If you ask when I’ll be there next and purchase when I am there, I do get credit for the sale. You will know when you are working with a vendor when they hand the sale off to the store employee to ring. Before that, you’ll have no idea that the person you are working with is not an employee of the store. I think it was nice that you weere concerned with that aspect of the sale.
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Interesting, I’m sure I’ve shopped at Nieman Marcus in Austin Texas before (and I know 100%I’ve shopped at Nieman Marcus last call recently) without carrying anything but my cash back Mastercard. No Amex or Cash. Perhaps it’s a regional thing?
I don’t like to open new cards for the anal reason that I am trying to get my “credit history” to be longer, as the only fault that comes up now on my report is that my accounts aren’t old enough on average.
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I think Last Call stores, like the online shop, are an exception to their Amex or NM card rules. Not sure about why they’d accept your MC at the Austin store–that’s the one I was at–unless they have changed something? :/
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That’s so cool we were at the same store April!!! At the Domain? I’m not sure either, I used to have an Amex way back when, perhaps the last time I bought something there I used it and have been going to the Last Call stores ever since. It is a silly policy not to accept the big 2 cards tho, I bet they would have higher overall sales if they let in Visa/MC…but as you point out some companies make more profit on interest charges than they do on sales (Sears I think is the commonly cited one!)
Great article, btw!
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Ha! Yes, The Domain. Thanks for the kind words. And I love Last Call, too!
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I was at a Last Call in Dallas on Saturday night, and I used my MC there. So I think April is right that Last Calls must take other cards.
DJ
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Great post. I took my son to The Mall over the weekend so he could look for some “skinny jeans.” We found a clearance pair at Macy’s, and they were an additional 15% off if we used their in-store card. Luckily, the clerk was fine giving us the discount without having a Macy’s card.
Katy
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Now that’s really interesting. I’d never think to ask about getting a discount even though I wasn’t using their store card, but that just goes to show that it never hurts to ask!
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That’s funny- I left a purchase on the counter and walked away at Macy’s when they wouldn’t take my Macy’s card- there was a problem with the activation of the new card and it would not scan. The customer service rep and his manager acted like I had a stolen card or something (yes, I showed ID to prove it was mine). When I asked them to give me the 15% off and let me use another card they told me “no way”. That’s when I left the merchandise, called Macy’s when I got home and cancelled the card. I’ve been boycotting them ever since! Such a terrible experience. No more store cards for me!
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The cash or Nieman’s card only adds to their (perceived) air of exclusivity. I live next to the first Nieman Marcus in downtown Dallas and a lot of high society type shoppers would probably be disappointed if they knew one of the great unwashed masses like myself came in and paid with a card I just used at Target
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Ha ha. Yes, you can figure out their target customer the minute you drive into the parking lot! I admit I was a little uneasy going there, but I was pleasantly surprised by how friendly everyone was, despite the fact that I wasn’t wearing a fur coat or carrying an Hermes Kelly bag.
Unfortunate that their card policy had me walking out with such a bad taste in my mouth, but again, I know I’m not the consumer they’re after, anyway.
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That’s an awful situation to be in. I just hope they have good customer service when you call to cancel!
The only other store I can think of that has policies like that is Costco which if I remember correctly takes only AmEx or their store card, but you can still pay with a debit card which is way better than just cash or check.
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Re: the profitability of the Nieman Marcus card business at an average of 15%, it’s always amazing to learn how much of the “exclusive” spending in this world is done by those who don’t actually have any money.
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+1!
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I’m probably crazy biased since I work retail and have to offer our card to every customer, but…
I don’t get all the hate store credit cards get. If you don’t carry a balance, you pay no interest so the APR could be 80% and it wouldn’t matter. Whether I’m paying 28% on a Best Buy card or 15% on a regular AMEX, it’s still dumb to carry a balance.
If you shop at a store you like, having their card usually has decent rewards.
One question though:
If April wouldn’t have been approved, then I guess they lose a sale?
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I don’t hate store credit cards, but I choose not to have them because I find it easier to deal with just one or two credit cards that cover most things I’d want to buy. It mean less tracking, and less avenues for identity theft and fraud. I like to keep things simple.
Just a personal preference though as I don’t tend to make large purchases at big chain stores. I’ve found that things I want to buy — like clothes, housewares, etc — are the same price elsewhere as when you factor in the extra discounts. I hate places that inflate prices so you feel good when you get a deal (even though it’s only regular price elsewhere!)
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Oh I agree, not wanting more cards for the reasons you listed is fine. Everyone has their preferences.
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I say, don’t beat yourself up. It’s really not a big deal. I’ve used store credit cards to save a lot of money on big purchases at Macys and Kohls. I never paid a dime of interest and I was never lulled into shopping there because of them. It’s a big so-what, and I think it’s really nice that you were thoughtful enough to want to ensure that the salesperson who helped you got the credit.
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My mom does the same thing with her cards. I think I was most annoyed because their policy pressured me into signing up for a card I didn’t want by taking away two major methods of payment that are accepted everywhere else. It just seems sneaky to me. When I’m asked if I want a store card anywhere else, I can politely decline and pay with my credit card.
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Best (or Worst) Scheme Ever:
My fiance and I were walking through this mall in St. Louis that was half dead- it looked to have once been a grand and prosperous place, but now at least half the stores were empty and most the people there were powerwalkers avoiding the drizzle outside. This lady was standing nearby a little desk in the hall near a jewellry store, trying to get the few passerbys to look at her materials. When we passed, she asked if we would have just a minute to take a survey, so, mostly feeling sorry for her, we agreed. She asked “what’s your name? Do you have a job? Where do you live? Address? Now, what’s your social security number?” Excuse me?! The ‘survey’ was actually a credit card application for a store card with the nearby jewellry store! I kind of wonder if that’s not breaking some sort of rule, but I also wonder how many people, having got that far, felt too guilty to put a stop to it right there?
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That is just plain sleazy!
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That’s appalling, and totally underhanded. I would report them to the BBB.
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I hate how pushy some of the stores can be about the cards, drives me nuts. I understand they have to ask, so ask once and be done with it. I was recently asked at least 5 times if I was sure I didn’t want to sign up for the Kohl’s card. The salesperson kept telling me how great it was since I could save 10%! Even though I was only buying $15 worth of merchandise…and I hardly ever shop there.
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As a once . . . and let’s face it, probably future retail worker I can tell you that whoever offered you a card five times had probably just been pressured to get credit applications at any cost. It’s constant, constant annoying pressure in that kind of environment and depending on the culture of the store it can make the difference in that associate’s pay as far as whether or not they get a raise, the amount of hours they get to work, etc.
So, long story short, it just kind of sucks all the way around.
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Thanks for bringing up this important subject. I share the experiences of others that were able to capitalize on opening a store credit card to get a discount. I purchased entirely new appliances for one of my rental units at Sears when Sears was having an appliances sale – opening the store card gave me an additional 10% off. Having opened the card and purchased the items at a significant discount, I haven’t used that card again at Sears. The only cards I keep in my wallet are an Amex and Mastercard, both of which give me points for travel – and both of which are paid off EVERY month. If there were a discount given at Sears or Macys that would require me to use their store card, the cashier could also look up my account online – but it seems once the account is opened at most stores, the discount offers go away
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@ April: way too much guilt. If you felt bad walking away, you could have just given her a hug and said “it’s not you, it’s me” or “I’ll always remember you.”
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ROFL
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Ha! That’s hilarious. And you’re right about the guilt–it’s definitely a problem of mine.
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Yeah. Just remember: Suicide–Never!! Murder.. ..Maybe…
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As soon as I saw you walked into Neiman Marcus I started giggling. It happened to me years ago but I put the item on hold and took out cash. I never bought anything at Neiman’s again though. I don’t think you made a huge mistake. Cut the card or freeze it. End of story.
You established the credit, might as well keep it with a zero balance. And yes Last Call takes all credit cards– it’s for commoners
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“Back to my in-store experience: I was feeling cornered and conned.”
You were neither cornered nor conned. You could have walked out–no one was holding you prisoner or threatening you. And you were not conned, unless it is your belief that every store should accept a card just because it is convenient for you. Neiman Marcus is under no obligation to make your life easier.
This post is one long infantile whine.
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Yep, I said I “felt” cornered and conned, not that I was being held against my will. As I said in the article, one of my options was to walk out, but I caved in. I also said I know I’m not their target customer, but I did learn lessons from this that I hope will help others.
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Haha – Neiman’s actually has outstanding customer service (in my experience) and I’ve never been offered or encouraged to sign up for one of their credit cards. I’ve heard them explain the benefits to individuals like the author who are without an AMEX or cash/check, and it’s pretty basic in laying out what payments they accept and what the alternatives are. Not a heavy sales pitch like you get at a lot of retail stores.
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Wow, I totally would’ve walked away without buying anything, especially since you knew what you wanted and could get it online.
What a bad situation to be in!
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I’ve never been to Neiman Marcus store, but if I were ever on vacation and one was available, I might be curious to check it out. However, now I know I will not actually ever buy anything there.
Did you ever say how you know that the “we will not sell your info” turned out to be false.
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It’s in the cardholder agreement. There are several ways they share your information, and there are three ways you can opt out of if you call them. The blanket statement that NM (and actually it’s HSBC) doesn’t share your information is wrong. I would guess that your information is one part of why the private credit portfolios are lucrative, but that’s purely speculation. I haven’t researched the numbers on it. That said, I didn’t get the feeling she was trying to deceive me as much as I got the feeling that she didn’t really understand the terms herself.
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I’m not a Neiman’s target customer, as you can tell by my following comment.
I have store cards for stores where I shop that offer special discounts for card members, including what amounts to free clothing. Specifically I use Kohls, JCP, and Macys. They all send several coupons that are only good for card members and Kohls and JCP send free “cash” regularly. For example Kohl’s might have a sale that offers an additional 30% off with their card, plus $10 in cash for every $50 spent. So I might end up buying $500 worth of clothes for $200, plus get $40 coupons I will then turn around and use on “free” shirts/pants/socks/shoes/whatever. It works out for me, especially as I have a family with children who absolutely need new clothing several times per year, and stores like Kohl’s pretty much cover the needs for the whole family.
The same goes for grocery store “customer loyalty cards.” I hate those things much more than I hate credit cards. However, there are some stores where prices are literally 2-3 times as high without a card, including some that are only worth shopping with a card in combination with a sale.
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I have been suckered more than once on opening a store credit account. It’s hard when the offer deep discounts for items that you planned on paying full price. I had opened accounts at Macy’s, Express, and GAP for their discounts on that one time purchase, and in the process I ended up buying more than I normally would have, all so I can recognize more savings! It’s not the wisest choice, especially after you find yourself with too many revolving lines of credit.
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A long time ago, in the 1970s, before I had any credit cards, I went into Neiman-Marcus in Dallas to buy a pair of shoes. I can still remember that they cost $36! I didn’t have the cash, so they offered me a store credit card. I doubted they would give me a card: I was young, out-of-state, and with no credit history. They asked if I had an ID. I had my NY driver’s license. That was enough for them to issue a card, and for me to buy the shoes. I was, and still am, amazed by the entire transaction. I paid the bill in full when it came, and still retain a soft spot for Neiman-Marcus.
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She *was* a great salesperson. She made you feel guilty enough that instead of walking out of the store, you opened a credit account you didn’t want just to spare her feelings.
If that had happened to me, I would have asked where the nearest ATM was, and told them I’d be back in a few minutes with cash. I’ve done this before at other places that don’t take credit and no one’s ever been upset, they’ll set your purchase aside for you while you’re gone. If they still bothered me about it, or claimed there was no ATM nearby, I would have just left without making the purchase.
Still though, nothing bad has really happened here. If you pay for the purchase and close the card you’re no worse off except for the time it took you to call and cancel. It’s not like this cost you hundreds of dollars.
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Once my husband had to leave me as collateral at a crappy restaurant in Harvard square that has finally gone out of business. While I was waiting the waitress told me about one time when her friend left her baby as collateral at a gas station while she hit an atm!
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Was it the Wursthaus? I hope not–it was never crappy, just strange.
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Everyone here trying to defend the use of store credit cards are obviously trying to “getrichslower” than you think…
Its not even mathematically possible for everyone to pay off their credit cards each month or there would be no credit cards. Its also not mathematically possible for the 80% percent of people commenting in this post to all pay their cards off each month. 60% of americans carry a balance. Someone’s lying.
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You are bad at math.
Based on your own numbers:
80% percent of people commenting in this post … pay their cards off each month.
60% of americans carry a balance.
Let’s assume all the commenters on this post are American for the moment (they’re not).
The current US population is:
307,006,550
If 60% of them carry a balance, that leaves 122,802,620 Americans who *don’t* carry a balance each month.
So far, 71 people have commented on this post. If 80% of those people pay off their credit card balances each month, that’s 57 people who *don’t* carry a balance.
You are telling us that it’s mathematically impossible for 57 people to pay off their credit cards each month because *only* 122,802,620 Americans pay off their credit cards each month.
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Looks like we found the liar!
http://creditcardsareforidiots.org
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I believe the term is “selection bias.” Possibly “sorting.” GRS readers are not randomly selected and folks who comment on posts like this are not randomly selected.
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Agreed! I also think this post doesn’t lend itself to that kind of admissions. In the comments on other posts, you can see that people have had credit card debts or are getting out of credit card debt. This post doesn’t solicit that kind of conversation.
I will cop to the fact that I once carried a balance for one month. (That’s ONCE in more than 12 years of credit card use.) It was a horrible feeling. In my family, you don’t put something on a credit card if you don’t have the money in the bank and the budget to cover it. I never really understood credit card debt until I started reading PF blogs!
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Awesome Tyler.
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Huh? Math has nothing to do with it. It’s just the percentage of the population who is both reading and posting here at GRS.
So, you’re saying we’re all lying? How ridiculous.
THISISWHYUHOLIERTHANTHOU
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Lets add up the number of people who were honest enough here to admit they carry a credit card balance.
*crickets*
Don’t worry I’ll wait…
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You have a very combative / argumentative “in your face” style that on some level is appealing but on another takes away from the validity of your point. Your blog is even like that, ridicule, by your own admission, is a part of your strategy. I won’t even touch on the blatant misogynistic slant.
I think a couple of things you’re not considering. The commentators of GRS are not representative of everyone who visits GRS, the lurkers. I think the most confident and by extension the most successful probably comment. Further, most people post anonymously so there is no incentive to misrepresent their fiscal lives. A common logical fallacy is to assume “what is true of the part, is true of the whole” – clearly the pre-disposition of GRS readers is different from the general population at large.
To your point-I carry credit card balances. Not because I think that’s the thing to do, but we’re in the process of paying off our consumer debt.
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I would have walked. I do have a store credit card from Pottery Barn which I used to buy $4000 in furniture.
The reason I used a store credit card:
(1) I already had the money saved up for the furniture;
(2) they were running a special that gave me 0% on the furniture purchase (it was 0% for a year on purchases over a certain amount)
(3) and as part of the special I received a $500 gift card that I used towards a new carpet.
Then I paid off the balance in full shortly after. I toyed with the idea of keeping our funds in ING earning interest but I hate credit card debt, didn’t want to keep track of the payment and the interest rate at ING was too small (if I had been earning more in interest I might have reconsidered).
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I appreciate April’s transparency and candor tackling human side of personal finance.
I also think women are hard wired differently and would have felt more pressure in this type of situation. I know I could completely empathize with April’s anxiety and frustration.
As for store credit cards, I loathe them. I don’t care about the perks, real or perceived. I genuinely don’t believe the road to wealth is paved with perks from credit cards. I don’t want to be induced into getting a card by the 0% financing offer either. My household once got a Dell card once because I desperately needed a new laptop while I was in graduate school, I had taped my old one with electrical tape. We were on track to pay it off, an emergency came up which derailed our plans and we were retroactively charged all the interest. That’s life! I am still thankful that credit was a tool readily accessible to us. Yet, sometimes I feel credit, in any incarnation, stymies creativity and ingenuity when coming up with other solutions especially for people just getting a handle on their finances. My laptop was five years old, we should have started to fund a replacement fund and minimize the use of credit which would have made it easier and more likely to pay it off.
Last point, I feel the retail industry has gotten too invasive. You cannot purchase anything without someone asking you your phone number, address; do you want a store card? Stores used to be in the business of selling merchandise not anymore they want a long term relationship and access to you now. I also hate when stores co-opt your info under the guise of asking for ID because you want to use your debit card, later I’m on their mailing list. Some store employees even get visibly frustrated because you don’t want to provide a blood sample -it’s maddening. Once, I was in a store where I was offered a card and I said I not interested in a 30% interest rate, the employee loudly proclaimed “that’s not true” she ran to the front counter to get clarification from a manager – and looked forlorn to learn I was telling the truth – so many people don’t know what their peddling.
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DreamChaser57, I agree 100%. I’d only add that besides the road to wealth not being paved with perks from credit cards, IMHO the road to Hell is paved with the credit cards themselves.
I’m sympathetic to April’s situation, and I probably would have done exactly the same thing – she had to go to another appointment in 15 minutes, she’d made an effort to get to that particular store, and the salesperson, who needs to make a living off her commission, had really taken the time to do her job fully. But I would have felt just as irate about getting suckered into a store card.
Still, no harm done in this case.
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Women do succumb to the pressure more easily than men. I work at American Eagle and our deal is apply for a card and get 15% off your purchase. And it’s far easier to get women to apply than men. The women that say no are many times still considering it, whereas most men without hesitation give a stone cold ‘no,’ the same no that I give when I’m shopping.
Sometimes I have to try not to laugh when someone makes a purchase of $10-20 and applies for a card to save $2-3. Honestly?
I used to feel guilty working for the bad guy offering credit cards to anyone over 18 with a SSN and an ID, but now I feel like people need to be their own financial stewards. I certainly don’t have time to do it. I struggle with my own finances as it is!
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Let me get this straight… the salesperson told you that they don’t take Visa or Mastercard, but they DO actually take those? If I’m reading it right, then that salesperson LIED to you. I would have gone to the manager, told the whole deception story, and demanded that salesperson be fired.
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Lol, you’d have wasted your breath.
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The salesperson didn’t lie. Neiman’s does not take anything but it’s own store card, AMEX and debit cards. Last Call, Neiman’s discount store, may take all cards.
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I got duped into signing up for a store credit card once too. I was fresh out of high school and had only been at college for about two weeks.
In my case, I didn’t even know it was a credit card at the time, due to a lack of real-world experience. The salesperson called it a “store card”, and it never occurred to me that this meant “store credit card”.
It wasn’t even at the register, it was at a booth in the front of the store when you first walked in. I’ve never been good at dealing with unknown situations or strangers (and was, of course, worse when I was 18 and out on my own for the first time) so I even though I didn’t want this “store card” thing to begin with, I filled out the form so the person would stop talking to me and let me continue shopping in peace.
I was so humiliated when it arrived in the mail and I realized it was a credit card that I made sure to never sign up for a store card again. So far so good.
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@ThisIsWhyUBroke
Chill.
We get it. You don’t like credit cards. Nobody here is advocating that people should get credit cards if they can’t use them responsibly.
HOWEVER, contrary to your rants, there are people who do use them without issue. My wife has used credit cards for twenty years and never gone in debt. Since I returned to the world of credit four years ago, I haven’t carried a balance. It is possible to do this, and I have no doubt that many GRS readers are responsible enough to make it happen.
So please, ease up.
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Kudos, J.D.!
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I did not know anyone still took paper checks.
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If you ever go to a Wal-mart and/or a grocery store while in any sort of hurry, the person in front of you will gladly remind you that the store does indeed take paper checks…
…not that I have any experience with that or anything…
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+1
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+2
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They also take pennies–many, many pennies–
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I find it odd that April doesn’t mention that by opening a credit card and closing it almost immediately her credit score will take a hit. Couldn’t you just buy the girl a latte?
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April wrote: “It was the only in-person store that carried the Stuff I wanted, …” The emphasis was on Stuff (hence the writer’s capitalization within the sentence), when it should have been on WANTED. Not NEEDED, but WANTED.
So the purchase was not a necessity but a want and the buyer was not in need of the item.
Walking away without signing up would have been proper.
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It’s inexcusable for a large, upscale store like that to not accept major credit cards. That being said, as someone who worked at a large department store in high school and college, I was required to offer the credit card to customers. In fact, we were mildly scolded if we didn’t offer it or didn’t open enough accounts. They also gave us $2 cash up front in the store office for every application form we turned in, so there was some small incentive. Many of the moms working in the store would get their $2 or more and say that was their kids’ lunch money for the next day/week/etc. I don’t condone pushy behavior, but just wanted to provide perspective from the other side. We were under major pressure to open new accounts. I generally just politely say no when offered a store card anywhere nowadays, and that seems to do the trick.
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As I commented earlier: I’m fairly certain the reason behind accepting one card exclusively is they then have discounted merchant fees from AMEX exchange for exclusivity for the AMEX receiving the CC fee profits.
The vast majority Neiman’s targeted clientele carries AMEX, which is why this arrangement works. They target a very specific demographic in their business model. It likely wouldn’t pay off to accept all other forms of payment, given the trade off of higher AMEX fees in addition to other CC fees, for a relatively insignificant increase in business from persons who do not carry AMEX.
So, if you don’t like it, shop else where. Neiman’s obviously isn’t hurting for business as a result of not accepting other cards.
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American Express and Discover are not fully accepted at some international locations. Visa and Mastercard are much more commonly accepted in Europe. I found out the hard way on my first trip to Europe when Discover was my only credit card and no one would take it. I had to do some bank transfers to put enough money on my Visa debit card and use it like credit that time.
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I use to work as a sales associate for the flagship Victoria’s Secret store in New York City and our managers put daily quotas of store card applications on us. Managers told us regardless of whatever the customer tells us (bad credit/no credit) to push it anyways and run an application through the system. I hated pushing the store cards on customers and I never filled one quota (but I was a great sales girl!). No surprise, I ended up leaving. Just a point of view from the other side of the counter!
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When I worked retail, we got same-day cash bonus for store card applications. It wasn’t much, but one day a pregnant coworker really needed to go home and lay down, and didn’t have cab fare, so all of us signed up for cards through her so she could get cab fare to go home.
I think I left that card open and unused for a decade before I finally went through and cleaned up all the random crap on my credit report.
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“I was reminded that I should carry at least one paper check with me.”
This is a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons. You are far better off just carrying a wad of cash. If you lose your wallet or its stolen, even the most dim witted criminal could steal $1000 in the blink of an eye with that blank check.
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Really? I carry my checkbook in my wallet. I always have. If I lose my cash, it’s gone for good. If someone forges a check, I get it back.
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True, you would probably get the money back eventually, but it would be quite the hassle to have a zero or a negative balance for a short period of time. Not to mention the possibility of returned checks or ACH transfers. Plus, the guy would have your name, address, account number and bank routing number. Setting himself easily for more mischief down the line. A dimwit could make life annoying for a couple weeks with a blank check. A clever, professional thief could force you to close your account and cost you plenty in fees that would never get back.
With cash, its a fixed risk. You have $100, the most you can lose is $100. Most people rarely if ever lose their wallets or get robbed, so losing $100 once every 20 years isnt going to hurt much.
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I agree – losing a check gives the finder an opportunity to steal a large amount from your account. I keep a $100 bill in the back of my wallet, separate from other cash, for “opportunities” like this. Since it’s a single bill, I’m less likely to break it in order to spend it on impulse. If I do lose it, I’m out $100, but there’s no additional exposure like with a check.
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That is a tough situation to be in. Aside from putting something on hold and running to the ATM what else could you have done. On the bright side, you got a discount and can just shred the card when it arrives in the mail (after you pay of course).
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I think of “a tough situation to be in” as having to euthanize your dog or being unemployed or not having enough food to feed your kids. Tough situation.
Having to say “sorry” to a salesperson in an upscale department store and come back another day or going to buy the thing online isn’t a “tough situation” except maybe in the world of Paris Hilton.
Seriously.
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