I’m sitting in the lobby of Happy Acres waiting for the business manager to return from lunch. I just spent half an hour talking with Mom, who’s doing much better than she was a month ago. She still struggles to find words, and she’s still confused, but now she’s able to conduct conversations and (more importantly) recognize people and tell the date.
Mom’s main concern now is finding an apartment to herself. She currently has a roommate whose moodiness makes Mom uncomfortable. When the business manager returns from lunch, she and I will discuss the options. Should Mom move to one of the open apartments on the assisted living side of the building? Or should she simply wait for a single to open up in the memory care unit? And how will we as a family cope with the costs?
The high cost of (assisted) living
Mom’s living situation is not cheap. She’s gone from having no housing expense to shelling out $2860 a month for room and board (in a shared room!). Plus she’s paying $910 a month for additional services, such as blood-sugar checks and daily medications. That’s $3770 a month to live at Happy Acres.
Can Mom afford $3770 a month? That’s the question I’ve been trying to answer all week. I set up a separate installation of Quicken to track Mom’s finances, and I’ve been entering every bill and receipt we can find. The picture is still incomplete and will remain so until this time next month. But eventually we’ll know how much money she has and what her cash flow is like — how much she’s gaining or, more likely, losing every month.
At the age of 63, Mom’s life savings is relatively small. She has $27,348.98 in the bank. Fortunately, she also has an unknown amount in a retirement account through the box factory. (We think this is around $100,000, but finding that actual information is low on the priority list.)
Mom’s salary from the box factory is about $2000 net (after taxes) every month, plus the company pays her $2750 in monthly rent. This the system Dad set up before he died in 1995, and it seems to be working well. In theory, Mom will have $1000 left over after paying Happy Acres every month. But, as I said, we’re still trying to figure out where all of Mom’s money is going.
Unraveling her expenses is a challenge, in part because her records were sloppy and incomplete over the last few months. So far, we’ve learned the following:
- Mom has five life insurance policies of unknown nature. I discovered these on Sunday, and haven’t had time to figure out what the terms are. “Nobody depends on your income, Mom,” I said today, “so why do you have these?” “I wanted to leave something for you boys,” she said. My heart broke. I’m grateful that she’s thinking of us, but she needs the money more than we do.
- She has many “credit protection” programs on her credit cards. These only cost a few bucks a month, but they add up.
- There are a several other automatic charges on her checking account and credit cards that I can’t decipher. I asked Mom about them today, but she doesn’t know what they are either.
- Mom’s only debt is about $10,000 owed her car. (We don’t know the exact amount; we only have the payment coupons.)
- She has a cell phone she’s never used. I’m not sure she even knows how to use it.
- And so on. There are new surprises all the time.
My next job is to cut services she no longer needs — like the unused cell phone. That may mean dropping some life insurance policies (though this will be a family decision with Mom’s input). I’ll also cancel her satellite TV service and newspaper. We’ll drop her phone service and auto insurance down to the bare minimum.
This isn’t difficult work, but it’s time consuming. Everything happens in slow motion. I started today with six hours to work on Mom’s affairs. I’ve spent five hours on them so far and haven’t even accomplished half of what I set out to do. I spend a lot of time waiting. And searching. And driving. And thinking.
All of these steps are necessary because assisted living is expensive. As I said, Mom is spending $3770 per month. If a one-person room were open in the memory care unit, that would run another $1300. To move to a similar arrangement in the regular assisted living side would only cost an extra $350 a month, but I’m not sure if she’s ready to move over yet. That’s why I’m waiting to meet with the business manager right now.
How things stand
A month ago, I felt overwhelmed by Mom’s situation. Today, I feel optimistic. The family has pulled together, and we’re each trying to do the things we’re best at. Mom’s condition has improved some, although it’s obvious she still needs constant care. Happy Acres seems to be doing a great job, and Mom likes it here, which is something of a miracle. (This morning, she even did tai chi!)
Taking care of her affairs is a lot of work, and I’m glad my family has spread the load around. Even when I’m only focusing on my bailiwick (money!), it still takes two or three days a week for 4-6 hours at a time. I’ve spent sixteen hours working on Mom’s money this week. I don’t begrudge this, but it is like a part-time job. The main drawback right now is it takes time from my writing, both here and elsewhere. You have all been very understanding so far — for which I am grateful — but I still feel bad that I’m not able to contribute more. (Second drawback? I’m stress eating! Twinkies, pepperoni sticks, sugary sodas. This is not a good thing)
Time for me to pack up. The business manager just returned from lunch. I’m not sure where our conversation will lead or what the future holds for Mom and my family. I’m just happy to know that for the time being, we have enough money to give Mom the care she needs. I’m just hoping we can continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
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I know it must be hard to talk about the situation — especially in such a public forum! — but I truly think you’re helping a lot of people with these posts. Many people don’t have a clue what to do until they’re faced with this situation, so it helps to have someone explore the issues.
Kudos, J.D.! I think I speak for a lot of us here when I say we’re thinking of you.
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It is scary to talk about this publicly. I’m not sure why, but every time I write about Mom’s situation, I’m nervous. It’s the supportive feedback and the “I’ve always wondered about this stuff” comments that make me willing to continue. If this experience can help others, if it will prompt others to plan ahead, well then it’s been worth the discomfort…
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May I add my support. When my parents died nine years ago, I was so thankful they had their financial situation in order. All this information is so necessary, not just for people whose parents are aging, but – I hate to say this, but it’s true – for each of us as readers. Since we’ve no guarantees about the length of our lives,we need to learn from these lessons as well. I have been reminded of many steps I need to take to be certain my family has the information they need should I die, or suffer a stroke or other debilitating illness. Thank you, Mr. Roth. Your willingness to share is helping many people!
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I’m not in this situation personally – but it could happen to anyone, I find it really insightful.
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I second this sentiment. Thank you so much for sharing, JD. My husband & I are only children with small families. Between the two of us, we have 5 “parental units” (his mom & stepdad-who doesn’t have other kids-; my mom, stepdad -who never had any kids-, and dad). I know one day (hopefully decades from now) we will have to do something similar for all of them and quite honestly, that scares me & saddens me. I really don’t know how the two of us will be able to do it alone.
JD, I am glad you have a supportive family to help out.
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Hang in there, J.D. and anyone who has to go through this. My mom was in a nursing home for eight years. Then my dad did a 2 1/2 year tour.
Regarding life insurance policies, do some number crunching. You may find yourself in a situation like I did. My dad had a policy that got really expensive. But I ran the numbers and realized he would have to live 12 years before it would not make sense to have paid on it.
My siblings and I found ourselves in a weird position of doing everything possible to help him live, while basically having a financial stake in him dying. It was kinda crazy!
Our decision was not as tough as it sounds. Because we could not imagine him living a dozen years, we kept paying the policy. The end result was that his policy left us each a nice gift. I’m certain that the insurance company would have preferred I cancelled the policy instead of crunching doing the math.
Chip
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This kind of discussion and information is going to be truly helpful for so many people who are in the same boat. Looking at being in this situation with my aging parents in the next couple of years. Your posts really strike a chord.
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I watched my parents go through this for both my grandparents. It was exhausting, stressful, and money worries were constant. One grandmother very easily could have outlived her savings. It was a matter of chance that she didn’t. The other died pretty much on zero (she was in hospice at that point and I think Medicaid would have kicked in).
Good luck with all of it. Your mom liking where she’s living is more than half the battle, so that’s really in your favor. And so is your attitude.
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Thank you for sharing. I am encouraging my mom to get long term care insurance, and I am going to share this post with her in the hopes of encouraging her to do this because she is not much younger than your mom. . .
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Long-term care insurance is not cheap, but it less expensive the younger you are when you get it. We only have one child and don’t want to be a financial burden on him, so we think LTC insurance is a very good idea. I am three months older than my husband. We signed up for LTC after my birthday but before his birthday, when we were 58. His premium is about $12 cheaper per quarter than mine.
A couple of years ago, our financial manager suggested we might increase our LTC policy since care has increased so rapidly over the past few years. When we checked, it would have cost more to get a second smaller policy, than our original policy is costing us. We stuck with what we had and, if necessary, will pay for extra expenses from our personal funds.
A big concern of mine is that with all us baby boomers getting older, the cost of care will increase to the point where LTC premiums may increase or be prohibitive.
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great to know your family is doing great. What are you planning for those life insurances? Interested to know what changes you make on your mom’s finances in coming days
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My grandmother died last week at one hundred years old. She had been in the nursing home for three years after having been in the assisted living for five. Guess how much her private room in the nursing home was? Over $8,000 a month! And this wasn’t a super fancy place or anything. It was adequate, but I wouldn’t describe it as top of the line. We were lucky that even though my grandparents had never made much money, they had saved so much that she died at one hundred with money in the bank. My grandfather was a fabric salesman in Manhattan for decades, but it was truly their frugality that enabled my grandma to pay for all of her expenses after he passed eight years ago. I’m sure she never thought she’d live to be one hundred, but thankfully she made it without running out of money. I believe she had enough money left to make it to December 2011.
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Be glad you’re not in the Seattle area where the average – not super nice or run down, runs better than $5,800 monthly. My Mother was prudent enough to purchase expensive long term care insurance before retirement, but it does have a cap & as things are going now, it may not be enough. Jane # 6 was a blessing in entering the pearly gates at 100 & just a couple of months before funds were exhausted.
Blessings all.
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The prices mentioned surprise me. You can find a perfectly good ( not great) nursing home in the near west / west Chicago area for slightly under $4,000 a month plus meds.
You could find them even cheaper if you are willing to pop in regularly and keep a “eye on things”.
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Wow, please give my best to your family! Your situation really puts things into perspective and emphasizes the importance of planning for retirement and beyond.
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You are doing wonderfully with a tough situation; it’s great that the family is able to help in so many areas. Remember that no one really gets to “practice” for this type of situation and be good to yourself, too. My wonderful MIL is in asssisted living; has dementia pretty much all the time; is wheelchair-dependent. It’s heartbreaking but recognize you are doing the best you can, especially in your area of expertise. Best wishes to all.
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Hi,
I’ve been reading this blog for awhile, but this is the first time I’ve actually commented. Just wanted to say I wish you and your family the best with what’s going on with your mom. My father went through a stroke a couple years back and we had to go through something pretty similar. My mother ended up having to leave her job to take care of him 24/7, because we did not have the funds to put him in any sort of assisted living situation. It was a hard point in our lives but you go to extraordinary measures for people you love right?
Again, all the best to you and your family. Oh, and great blog!
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Add me to your list of well-wishers. Thank you for sharing all of this information. We’ll likely all be in the same boat somewhere down the road, and this will help us all.
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Why don’t you bring your mom over to your place? If you can’t look after your mom 24×7, you can hire someone to do so. It will not cost you (or your mom) as much as it would if she were to be staying alone in a separate place. Leaving aside the savings in cost for a minute, allowing your mom to stay with you will give your mom the satisfaction of staying with her son during old age. There can be no other joy, for your mom, greater than the joy of staying with her son.
Please do not consider this as a negative comment. I know that, in the western world, it is uncommon for parents to stay with their children after their children are married. But, where I live (India), it is uncommon for children to let their parents live alone in their old age.
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The disconnect of families happened about 50 years ago in the US. We became “convinced” that a hospital like facility would do a better job than the family. I disagree with this, but it is difficult to convince an entire generation that it is better for the family…walking out on a limb…since we are convinced that our children are better off with professionals as well.
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The main cause of this is women entering the work force en masse. When an older relative moves in, studies show that the woman does most of the care-giving whether it’s her relative or not. Not many people are willing and able to keep up that sort of effort after also working a full time job and perhaps taking care of their own children as well. It’s just too much.
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In a lot of the situations where a spouse ends up doing full-time care, I’ve seen that the healthy spouse often ends up dying *before* the unhealthy spouse. The stress of 24/7 care, especially if there’s memory loss/dementia seems to age a person very rapidly.
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least a handful of friends to whom this situation happened. Obviously I have no statistics, but I do think it’s one thing in favor of not having a family member devote their life to long-term care without a lot of thought as to how it will affect them. Especially if that person has to quit a job that could provide for him or her when there are health issues.
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Each of us three sons has discussed having Mom come live with us, but the logistical problems (and, to be honest, our selfish desires) have ruled it out, at least in the short term. Right now, she needs attention and care that none of us is able/willing to provide.
Having said that, it’s quite possible that she’ll live with one of us in the future. That may become a financial necessity, of course, but it may also be something one (or more) of us can do once our lives have settled.
I, for one, am actually pleased with her development at Happy Acres. One of her biggest problems is a social phobia/paranoia. Mom is reclusive, and that just creates a vicious circle. In assisted living, she’s forced to interact with people, and it seems to be helping her. She wouldn’t get that living with one of her kids.
Great question, though, and one for which I do not have a great answer. As Jan says, it’s a cultural thing that has developed over the past few decades, and my family is very much part of that mindset…
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Its probably tempting to feel guilty about this, especially after these previous posters, but the truth is that you are doing the best thing for your Mom. Unless you are a doctor or a registered nurse who is very comfortable with dementia, I just don’t see how you can give her the care she needs.
Also, Jan and Vittal seem to be under the impression that having parents move in is a great solution for most people. I would argue that it is a bad one for almost everyone.
My families experience when my great-grandmother moved in with my grandmother (and father) was that my great-grandmother did not respect that it was my grandmothers house. She resented having to live with her children and expected to be the head of the household. She was a wonderful woman and I have nothing against her, but it is human nature, after being the head of the family for so long, to try to take over.
That is just one common example of why it is a bad idea. Add to that the stress of choosing between caring for your children and caring for your parents, trying to get any time to yourself, fitting more people into the same space and establishing legitimate boundaries… its just a recipe for discord.
Long story short: JD you are making the right choice for you. Jan and Vittal, I see your points but it should be clear JD is making a responsible decision with a medically dependent parent and there is no reason to jump on him because you have different cultural views.
I can say I will never, ever expect my children to take me in. If I need long term care insurance, I will get it.
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“One of her biggest problems is a social phobia/paranoia.”
Are you sure you don’t just mean your mom is an introvert who prefers her own company and finds constant contact with other people annoying? Obviously, I don’t know your specific case so I could be totally wrong about your mom, but in my own case, I do get sick and tired of people saying I have some kind of phobia or disorder, when in fact, I just don’t like spending time with other people that much (apart from my family). More than that, I’ll admit it: I just don’t like people that much. When my husband and I went to a fancy restaurant the other night, the place was empty and quiet when we sat down, and my (extroverted) husband felt really uncomfortable. I was loving it – until the restaurant gradually filled up and we could barely hear each other talk over the silly chatter of the other diners and the awful music. Occasionally I feel a real need to go out and socialize, but most of the time I’m happier alone. I was made this way. Maybe it’s the same for your mom, in which case you shouldn’t try and force her to be sociable, as if her lack of sociability is a failing. I don’t mean this as a criticism – I just wonder if you’ve ever considered it like this, especially if you yourself are an extrovert. Extroverts often assume everyone is the same as them. For me, for example, sharing a room would be a total nightmare, so extra expenses incurred in order to live alone would be money well spent.
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Maybe you should see a therapist to make sure it’s not something more than being an introvert.
If his mom is enjoying herself around the others, as JD mentioned, your diagnosis is probably incorrect.
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Oh, Amanda, honey, your comment literally caused me to facepalm – there’s nothing wrong with me. That is the whole point! I don’t need a therapist – I’m perfectly happy as I am. I’m just made this way. You probably just don’t understand because you yourself are an extrovert. If I were put in a communal home in a shared room, I’d hate it. That’s why I suggested JD’s mom might just be introverted rather than “phobic”. Running to therapists whenever you have any kind of problem is definitely not a recipe for getting rich slowly.
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Yes, but did you see where he says that she seems better where she is now? That sort of argues against the “she’s an introvert” and needs to be alone idea.
Is there a chance of getting a different roommate? If there are opportunities to move to another room, that might be a good compromise, especially if there is some choice available as to who she’d move in with.
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You are doing a great job. It takes time to get these things sorted out. I watched my mother (an only child) do this with her mother when my grandfather died. You’re right. The Power of Attorney is ESSENTIAL.
On the moving in thing. Don’t feel guilty. Your mother’s condition means she needs medical assistance. If you were to move her to your home, you would need to hire a full time medical professional to give her the kind of care she is getting where she is.
Also, while there is this horrible connotation out to the idea of “putting someone in a ‘home’.” the situation really depends on the people involved.
My grandmother now lives on the assisted living floor of a lovely seniors residence. It’s nearby so my mother visits multiple times a week and it’s a much better setting for my grandmother. She has mobility issues and the place has ramps and elevators and wide halls for walkers. My parents live in a 100 year old Victorian home – retrofitting that place so my grandmother could live comfortably there would be expensive and close to impossible (when she comes to visit, we have her sit in a lawn chair and carry her up the stairs).
Living where she does, she retains some of her independence as the residence runs activities she can choose to go to, brings in clothing companies she can shop at and arranges regular bus trips on accessible buses. It’s like living in a mini village or on a cruise ship.
If she lived with my parents she’d be stuck in the house all day with limited company and likely would not being doing as well as she is.
It is a cultural thing but I find that in North America, older people often really value their independence and sense they can take care of themselves. A lot of good residences give professional care while still allowing the residents to function independently and choose how to spend their days.
It’s not the right choice for everyone but it has been for my grandmother who loves having her own space.
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It can be way more complicated than that–the medical needs can be overwhelming. My dad was 200 lbs & 6 ft. tall. There was no way I could safely get him to the bathroom. He needed 14 pills a day, and to be monitored by testing several times during the day. Also, dad would not consider living with us–he didn’t like our t.v., didn’t like my daughter having friends over, didn’t like the time the mail carrier arrived,etc.
It’s not only “selfish kids” turning over oldsters to institutions. In many cultures you can count on an extended family pitching in for help and relief. In the U.S. it is too often an exhausted woman struggling with a job, kids, and the elderly parent. Many studies have shown that the CAREGIVER ends up with significantly worse health themselves. No easy answers here.
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Also, don’t forget that it used to be more common that the stay-at-home mom would be the de facto caregiver of the whole family. But with many families depending on two incomes instead of one, caring for your own children has become a struggle, let alone adding the complexity of caring for your aging parents on top of that.
I know J.D. is not in this situation, but many families are, and this could help explain why the older generation is not being cared for in their children’s homes.
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I also think that with the way elder health care has improved in the last 50 years, the conditions that elderly people tend to suffer from and the types of care that are now required are far more complicated than what a family would be asked to deal with back then. Most of my grandparents and great grandparents did not linger long once they began a decline. My FIL, by comparison, has been living for almost 9 months with terminal liver failure. If he’d taken ill 50 years ago, he would have been dead in January, and the level of care that he requires to remain at home is staggering.
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I agree with Nancy. Doctors used to refer to pneumonia as the “old man’s friend”, because once a person was bed-bound they usually died of pneumonia within the year. High-level care of the elderly would last a short time, and with the large families people used to have, that care could be dispersed among many. Now, high-level care can last for a decade and the responsibility falls on just one or two people. Circumstances have changed dramatically in the past 50 years!
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@cerb: You’re absolutely right. I wouldn’t want to be a burden to my kids in this way. I would rather die quickly than linger on and on needing help to do everything and either using up all of my savings, or all of my kids’ savings, or otherwise “outliving the money.” Sorry, but in some cases the desire to prolong life is just selfish. (J.D. this is not a comment about your mom — obviously her situation is different and I hope she continues to see improvement in her symptoms.)
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JD,
Thank you for sharing, I saw my parents go through a lot of this with my grandparents. They didn’t end up going into assisted living because my father was retired and someone was able to stay at home with my grandmother at all times (though that was a major issue with the family, who did very little to help my parents).
My grandfather was actually doing our grocery shopping (the man loved deal searching) up until a month before he passed.
There wasn’t much discussion about money (at all with my parents really), but I did know that my mother had two separate insurance policies that coordinated benefits (one from each of her teaching pensions) so I don’t think they ever had to pay a dime out of pocket.
I am curious (sorry to pry), how does your family feel about you are sharing all of this information about your mother’s finances (or condition in general)? Again, we all thank you for sharing this, it is something that doesn’t get enough attention, and you are being very transparent about it.
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The DURABLE Power of Attorney is an even weighter sword! Especially in your family’s situation.
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“Durable POA”?? Care to expand on that?
Good topic, J.D…. sort of keeps all the rest of it in perspective.
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I’m thinking I need to research and write a post about Powers of Attorney. I knew nothing about them before last fall, and I know little about them now. I just know they’re very powerful. (And, if placed in the wrong hands, they can be very dangerous.)
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But in the right hands POA’s are an absolute godsend.
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We had durable powers of attorney(health and financial) in place before my mom was ill. However, we found in some cases that we had to sign more papers – some had to be notarized- for different financial institutions. The worst thing was having a bank manager and a staff member discussing loudly(despite the legality of the POA) that maybe I was just going to steal my mother’s money, rather than use it to pay for her expenses. After she became ill, my mom lived in her own house for 2 years with 24 hour care. The cost per year was $83,000 of which 2/3 was covered by LTC insurance.
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Agreed. My sibling has total power of attorney for our mother and I am now watching her spend our mother’s money even worse than the second husband did since she doesn’t have enough of her own. But I have no legal recourse because I am not a joint holder on the power of attorney. It’s disgusting.
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A Power of Attorney (POA) can only be granted by someone who has the mental capacity to do so and once they no longer have that same capacity (for example, dementia), the POA no longer exists. In fact, it is basically useless in such circumstances. However, a DURABLE POA would remain in effect even after mental capacity has come into question.
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“There are a several other automatic charges on her checking account and credit cards that I can’t decipher.”
YES! THIS!
This series of posts is really helpful to me, as my family moves down a similar path. If you have any thoughts about how to decipher strange credit card charges, and then eliminate them, I’d be really interested. (Yes, my spouse does have the flaming sword of PoA, we just aren’t sure how to wield it sometimes….)
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Beverly, I’ll do my best to share what I learn about deciphering charges and eliminating them. Right now, my first step is to call the credit card company and/or stop by the bank. I’m actually not worried about the credit card charges. They’re small and should be easy to fix. But the charges to the checking account are about $20 a piece and I have no idea how to track them down…
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If you can’t track down who is automatically charging/debiting from the accounts, then shut the account down and transfer the funds to another account.
Anyone with a legitimate charge to the account will pop up from the woodwork and let you know that the payments aren’t being received and you can then choose whether your mom still needs the services being paid for.
On another note, be prepared for the costs of assisted living care to go up (a lot) over time. Especially for dememtia care, we found that the charges are based on how much assistance was needed. At the end of my grandfather’s 3 years in dementia care his monthly costs were over $8,000 per month.
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I would actually recommend that you drop your mothers credit cards and change her bank account number. Once someone stops getting paid they will alert you via mail most likely saying something has changed. This way the onus is on the company, not you.
Also can I ask why you are still keeping your mother’s car? From what you said in the past the family had decided to take her license away from her.
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This idea — just canceling accounts and switching to new ones — had occurred to me, especially on the credit cards. I figure if we get those paid off (which we have), then canceling them will cause legitimate service providers to send mail, which we can then process as normal.
First, though, I’m going to try to fix things without this step…
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Strictly financial observation…POA terminates upon death. Better to set up new joint accounts and deal with the non payments of the auto-deduct charges as they surface. Gone through this on two occasions and learned quite a bit. Contact the attorney who set up your POA and get the details.
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I had mystery charges on my CC statement and googled portions of them, eventually I found others who had done the same. May help.
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Have to be careful about setting up joint accounts, particularly if your parent may someday face having to apply for Medicaid. It muddies the waters in re: the value of assets
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By now you may have figured them out, but if not, have you tried asking the bank for more information? And/or challenging/disputing those charges? Simple inquiry often yields only slightly more information, but if you dispute them, they can find out fast enough where the money when to in order to do a charge-back. Not that different from credit cards.
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We are dealing with my mother going into independent living at a continuing care facility. She is older (81). My parents saved well and between social security and savings she can live to be 100 there with little worries.
I am glad to see that your mother’s care will cost about the same as my mother’s in Phoenix. I was worried that we were way too high.
It actually puts into perspective something I have worried about. My husband is seven years older than my 54. We live well on his pension- but that will disappear when he passes. Will I have enough in the end? Scary to think about!
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Assisted living is only the bottom rung on the cost ladder. My dad needed full-blown nursing care and the best decent place I could find (not lux, but good care) was $235/day in the suburban Chicago area near enough for me to drive less than 1/2 hour to see him. That’s $85,775 per year. His social security was $1,500/month. To pay those kind of bills out of investments, you’d need nearly $1,700,000 by any “safe withdrawal rate”.
Of course, you’d be drawing out principal, not just the “safe withdrawal rate”. You can burn through an awful lot of money in a very short time. And one nursing home administrator told me that the reason rates were so high was that the full pay clients were subsidizing everyone else who was on Medicaid-paid rates, presumably after they too had burned up their assets.
If you think the solution is to stay in your own home with help, be aware that that only works if you’re not medically fragile. If you have to hire 24 hour care (plus relief on weekends and when the caregivers call in sick)it’s even more expensive than nursing homes, at least around here.
Anyone who has less than $2-3 million in assets and is in their 50s really should look at long term care insurance. I was told that unless the senior can pay out of pocket for at least 6 months, most nursing homes won’t admit them. The best won’t admit them unless they’re assured that the senior can pay all, for the entire term (don’t accept Medicaid).
Also, it’s well worth seeing an eldercare attorney to inquire about “Medicaid pooled payback trusts”. If they’re available in your state, they can protect assets both for the senior and the family.
It’s a tough picture for getting old. As a financial planner, I urge people to think this all through in their 50s. If you want to make your own decisions about your life and future, that’s the time to put a plan in place, not when you become sick and have to leave momentous choices to others. As a daughter myself, I know how hard it was. I never want my own daughter to be saddled with all these issues. She’ll have a roadmap so she’ll know what I would want. Wish my dad had done the same.
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I heard a rumor that this is why some seniors go on cruise, after cruise, after cruise. They cannot be denied medical care on a cruise. Apparently a lot of seniors die on cruises each year.
snopes (dot) com/travel/trap/retire (dot) asp
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I just recently took a cruise and related this story on Consumerist:
There was actually a lady who had been living, yes living on the ship for three years. She was wheelchair bound and had an attendant, and the ship has a nursing staff and a doctor.
All her meals and laundry was done by staff. She could have room service, or go to any of the dining areas.
I got a chance to talk to the lady living on the ship. She was told by the Doctor she needed to be in assisted living. The fee for that was about $7000-8000 a month, but being on the ship year long worked out to about $5000 a month. If she didn’t like where she was going, she could change ships, and honestly, I can’t think of a more fun thing to do than spend the later years of your life traveling around the world.
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JD
Your mom’s situation sounds a lot better than most! Her family is very supportive and caring and the box factory has set her up well and should provide for her!
I had a friend with a very similar situation to your mom regarding the life insurance policies. Both children had moved out and were grown and self supporting and the parents retired and comfortable, but they let themselves be talked into life insurance policies. No amount of logic could override the “WE have to leave you something when we die” attitude, despite both siblings insisting they didn’t want money and would rather the parents took the premiums and spent it on themselves. *sigh* I wonder what kind of sales job the life insurance salesmen are pushing on those elderly folks to make them feel so guilty about dying without a big estate to pass on?
I lol’d at your stress eating comment. Too funny. If you’re going to stress eat poor choices, grab the pepperoni sticks over the twinkies and soda tho. At least they have some protein and are relatively low in calories. Too much salt is bad, but too much sugar is worse.
Thanks again for sharing, and I’m glad your mom is doing better!
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I saw my parents just go through this with my grandparents, and it’s definitely a scary thought to realize I may have to do it some day. Their situation was actually pretty good, my father is already retired, and my grandparents had considerable cash savings, so money and time were both available. I can’t imagine how people who need to work full time could do it. I know you have a busy work schedule, but at least you have the flexibility to set your own hours… imagine if you still had a 9-5, or if you needed to travel for business (both of which I do right now), it would be that much harder. Best of luck to you and your mom!
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My two cents…I would use caution talking about what the company pays for her if these items are being deducted. Could the company show they are ordinary and necessary (IRS lingo) in the course of running the business in case of audit?
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There is no IRS issue. This is common business practice. In one entity owned, or partially owned, by Mother there is an asset (building). In another entity is the box business. The box business entity pays the building business entity rent. Likely the rent flows through to Mother.
The business isn’t paying Mother’s rent for her home. They are paying their business rent TO her. She owns the building they’re renting.
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Thanks for sharing, J.D. This is such an important topic to think about and plan for, both for our parents and ourselves. It sounds like your family is doing an amazing job.
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Please don’t feel obligated to respond to me,
I wish you strength as you help your mom, and thank goodness she has you! And it highlights the importance of documenting all those expenses/bills/passwords/accounts so someone else can figure it out if I am unable to do so…
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So true. Even before an elderly relative is in the dementia stage (if they get there) it’s good to go through their finances with them. I can’t imagine these are easy discussions; however, they are sooo important.
The elderly are cheated all the time. For example with the life insurance that’s unnecessary, credit card add on fees (well, everyone’s cheated that takes on these, but if they are adults with the ability to comprehend they should know to decline-not that DH did. Those fees got cancelled as soon as we were married and I saw them!).
It was very helpful for us to go through finances with MIL. I know that if she was having trouble we’d be personally paying for her mistakes later. She now has no credit cards, she’s just not the type that can use them in a responsible manner. She’s very thankful for the assistance too. I offered it but didn’t push it and I’m happy too that she took advantage of my assistance.
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Posts like this from time to time–real life updates–are why I enjoy this blog. Thank you. I am so grateful that you are sharing about this. I’m glad the family can turn to you and trust you to figure out the money end of this. That’s really a gift.
This is one of those topics I also want more information about: taking care of elderly parents, paying for care, making decisions with other family members about money and levels of care.
I have POA with my dad, but his finances are sure to be a maze,too. He’s only willing to give up certain information.
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My parents-in-law (both in their 80′s) don’t even want to talk about POA, much less give up any information about their financial situation. I worry that we will have to deal with these issues when one or both is already ill and/or in need of in-depth care.
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Recently had some of these discussions with Mom (82) with Elder Law Attorney after death of Dad (92–w/10+ years of intensive care-giving at home). Attorney said everyone of ANY age should have an appointed POA who can step in when needed–because when you need one is too late to establish one.
Yes, one needs to have a DURABLE POA so one can continue to function as POA when person is not longer competent. But even that doesn’t necessarily allow one to make all the necessary decisions and there may come a time to go to the courts to be appointed guardian. It is helpful if the person in question nominates the guardian as it will reduce any sibling wrangling when the time comes.
(Note Leigh comment #134: I believe you do have recourse to your sister’s irresponsible handling of your mother’s affairs, but you would probably have to challenge it in court, and be able to prove it. D/POAs should keep scrupulous books for their own protection for this reason.)
Similarly with advance care directives. (BTW, new to this blog so don’t know if these have been discussed, not seeing it in these comments so far.) This is perhaps the hardest for everyone involved to handle and yet is the most important when the time comes.
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I know what you are going through, J.D. You may have already done this, but I would check and make sure that your Mom’s bank will honor your POA to sign her checks. My parents’ bank made me get a separate bank POA there at the branch. When I asked why, they said that families tend to NOT notify the bank if the legal POA is changed, and they have had former POA’s come in and clean the accounts out. If one of you has to take Mom home, there is some great home health help in most places. I wish you and Mom the best.
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Thanks for the suggestion. Mom’s bank is honoring the checks so far, but my brother (who is backup POA) wants me to go in and chat with them personally so they know what’s going on. That’s on my list for next week.
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When I was helping my father corral his finances after my mother’s death, we went to the bank branch together and he set up online banking. I did not ever write a physical check for him, but I did do a lot on line.
In some cases I decided it was easier to impersonate my mother than to explain (getting trash delivery restarted was one random example where this saved a good 2 months) – I did this only with my father’s permission. Not sure the companies really cared, since they were getting paid, but they needed plausible deniability (if I said I wasn’t my mother, that was a problem; if I said my mother’s name as though it were mine, they were happy).
For random monthly charges on CC’s, there is often a phone# on the CC statement – google it first, and if legit then call & cancel. If not legit, call CC company & cancel. Switching &/or closing accounts (or getting replacement CC & debit cards with new #s) could be a great idea & time saver.
With my father, it was a lot of work for the first 2+ months, then quite minimal. Got rid of a bunch of no-need recurring charges, put everything possible on automatic. The most fun was the regional sewer board, their charges were slightly different each 6months and they did not offer a “pull” automatic pay option. But they were small & friendly and were happy to tell me the actual amount on the phone.
Finally, my father was behind on his Medicare supplemental insurance and the very nice customer service guy explained that his policy was technically cancelled and could be re-instated, but to avoid having to pay all the back premiums suggested getting a new policy with another insurer (my father had basically forgotten about his policy. Thank goodness my mother’s policy had been 100% up to date!!!).
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I find these posts incredibly insightful, and I appreciate that you’re willing to put so much personal information out there. Money is simply NOT discussed in my family (my retired parents will flat out tell me it’s none of my business), and I often wonder how things will wind up and what the process will entail if I have to handle things for them at some point.
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Thanks, J.D., for taking the time to write this all up. It is HUGELY valuable for those of us that are about to become (or already are) involved in these processes for our loved ones. There is no idea of what needs to happen until it is an emergency, and many times, that is too late. Lots of love and good thoughts to you and yours, and may your Mom continue to feel content.
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You and your brothers are wonderful sons. You have a great family who can pull together like this in such a time of need. I’m glad she’s making progress and I hope it continues, best of luck to you and your family! This is a great story, thanks so much for sharing with all of us.
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JD,
I spent many years tracking my Grandmother’s finances. When I first took over it was a mess. I looked at the task as a labor of love as my Grandmother had done soo much for me when I was a kid. I believe that if you look at it a labor of love, you future will be even better. I know my is.
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Thank you for sharing your story. Think how much more you are able to do for your mother now that your own finances are in order. This topic will strike a chord with lots of people as more and more of us help our senior parents. I hope you are able to continue sharing your experiences.
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- – - your Mom is lucky to have you!
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JD-I can only second all the positive comments from other readers. At 54, I am frequently struck by how many new challenges & situations come up in our mid-lives. When my elderly mom & dad & my sister (who had MS) died within a 3 year period (in the midst of my divorce), I was ever so grateful that all their planning & paperwork were in order, & for the support & cooperation of my siblings. It was STILL a lot of work to deal with the details. Some things never did surface, like mom’s wedding ring that was cut off when she had her first seizure. But the end resulted in richer relationships among my family, greater life awareness, appreciation and gratitude. I miss the folks every day. You will survive this, and your chronicle will help a lot of your fans & readers….. Best of luck!
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Thanks for posting. Part of why this is so scary for people is that there is a lot of mystery surrounding how nursing homes get paid for, when and how does Medicaid pick up, and no one who knows the rules wants to share – it’s like the tax code – how to take best advantage is left to those who can figure it out themselves (which costs money in time) – or hire a financial planner to figure it out for them(which also costs money). I do know from the experience that my parents had with their parents is that it is better to go into a nursing home with assets (and run out and have Medicare pick up) than to be looking for a nursing home once on Medicare. Which is one of the reasons people chose to go to a nursing home while they still have money and choices.
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J.D., I’m sorry you and your family are going through all this, but I’m also so glad to hear you are all pulling together. My husband went through something similar with what you’re doing, when he first had to get his parents into an assisted living facility. Two weeks after he did, his father literally dropped dead while waiting for a car to take him back to the facility from his dialysis treatment.
My husband’s mother had a massive stroke twelve years ago and is almost completely non-verbal and has no capacity for taking care of her affairs. For some reason, my husband’s father always assumed he would outlive her, so he had very few things in place regarding her care or how anyone would be able to take over her financial matters in case of his demise. Yes, your new “part-time job” sounds about right…in fact, my husband had to spend three weeks across the country doing the same job for his mother, which resulted in his being laid off from his OWN job when he returned to work.
Ultimately, we ended up needing to immediately move across country to be closer to his mother and supervise her care. She has since had a major fall (broken collar bone) and other health crises, so we are very glad to be close by. However, moving from one hotbed of unemployment (Nevada) to another (Florida) has resulted in both of us being unemployed for nearly a year now. We now are on the hook for keeping our unsellable and upside-down home in Nevada rented out, trying to find work that is flexible enough to accomodate urgent demands of my mother-in-law, and generally just trying not to drown. There are some things you just can’t outsource or phone in.
I am not resentful of the situation, as it is what it is and it’s no one’s fault. At the same time, I am extremely grateful that my own parents are in relatively good health, and I have learned the same harsh lesson about how important it is to plan for the VERY worst-case scenario. No one is immortal, and no one gets to choose when the poop hits the fan. My thoughts are with you and your family during this marathon!
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Your DH didn’t qualify for FMLA?
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There are rules for when FMLA applies -
You have to have been employed full time for 12 months prior and 1250 hours worked.
And FMLA only applies to companies with 50+ employees, so anywone working for a smaller company is out of luck….
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Thank you for sharing your family’s journey with your aging mother. Having dealt with these issues as an adult child and as a geriatric care manager, I appreciate your willingness to help others who are searching for answers.
Adult children are often surprised at the amount of time caregiving requires, even when their parent is in a facility. As you mentioned it truly can be a part time job.
As I read your comments about the life insurance policies, I did have a couple of thoughts. Some life insurance policies are countable as assets should you ever need to apply for Medicaid for your mom. An elder law specialist is a good resource for such questions.
Also, before giving up life insurance policies it can be helpful to look not only at funeral costs but any resources needed to complete the estate. Many families do not, or can not think about such eventualities. My dad’s funeral and estate expenses, including probate, will total nearly $30,000. Just readying an older home for sale required nearly one third of that amount up front. As with many of the decisions you are making, weighing the monthly cost of insurance policies against potential long terms needs as not always simple.
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I would suggest keeping the life insurance, even if you need to pay…I am thinking the NPV of the insurance is less then the payments for the same time period. And having that money for funeral…or other expense could be good
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JD, my heart goes out to you. I know exactly what you are going through.
Right now, I am caring for/living with my father who has been diagnosed with dementia. I can see a future where he will need more care than he is getting right now. Being a WWII vet has been tremendously helpful, as the VA pays for an aide to come help take care of him while I am away at work. It is really hard some days. But the alternative is just something I don’t want to deal with.
In 1998, after my mother died with an unsigned will at her attorneys office. My dad got his affairs in order. He made a living trust for the house (so probate will be circumvented) and also had a Durable Power of Attorney, Health care Power of attorney and living will drawn up. I never thought at that time we would ever need them, well we did. And they have proved to be the best thing we ever did.
My dad has simple finances, all the utilities are on automated payments and he has one small life insurance policy that will just about pay for his burial expenses.
I have been having a tough week because of some paperwork snafus but its just really timing that is bad. However, when you take on the care of a parent you do the best you can. and just keep going.
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J. D. Today’s column was even better than your usual ones. My mother has been in assisted living for 5 years and is doing well. She’s 86. I have a sister who lives close by and is the main person who looks after my mother and takes care of all of her finances. What a blessing she is to my other sisters and me. What really makes it work for us though, is that over 20 years ago, my late father purchased a long-term care policy for her. I thank him every day for that. Without it, she wouldn’t be where she is. It’s over $70,000 a year! You are doing a great job. Thankfully, your Mother had that Power of Attorney. The $400-$500 a lawyer charged was well worth it. I have one as well and a living will. Money well spent in my opinion. I urge everyone to get one because you never know when you will be in a position where you can’t make your own financial decisions and your family has to. Without one, it’s almost impossible to do even the simplest transactions. Namaste.
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JD,
Glad she is doing better. I appreciate your openness. GRS is so popular because it is so personal.
Have you considered finding someone to live in your mom’s house with her? Not a nurse (expensive) but kind of like a nanny? I know someone who did this and they only pay the “nanny” a modest amount (close to minimum wage). This is because essentially they are providing the room and board for the caregiver which in the outside world costs a lot.
How about a mother-in-law house in Rosings Park? Just a thought…
-Charlotte
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From JD’s description it sounds like Mother still needs intense medical care. A nanny isn’t going to cut it!
I also think there are many benefits in a facility for people that have social issues. They provide a lot of activities and many people from the community tend to volunteer to play games and such with the elders.
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I sort of know what you’re going through, J.D., but I have to admit that your situation sounds more difficult than mine. My wife’s father had a stroke a couple years ago, and while his memory is OK, he can no longer drive and walks with a walker, so he needs help for everyday tasks like buying groceries.
His finances were in a terrible mess when he had his stroke, but not for a lack of cognitive ability. He was just bad with money, like the J.D. of a few years ago. He had tons of debt and had been hiding it from his family. He is better now, if for no other reason than nobody will loan him money any more. He is pretty good about paying his bills first and saving some of his leftover social security, though. Too bad he couldn’t have done that before the stroke, then he wouldn’t be disabled with no savings.
Next weekend he will be moving into an apartment in a senior living community that is just a couple miles down the road from our house, so that he will have people to interact with and will be close by so we can visit.
I could write more but my wife is in labor and we’ll probably be heading to the hospital soon…
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Congratulations!
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A baby! How exciting – congratulations!
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CONGRATULATIONS!
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Good luck, Tyler.
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Blessings on you and your wife and your wonderful baby!
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I am sorry this has happened to you and your family, but I am afraid I am not going to offer a positive comment, and I disagree with most of the comments. If I was your mother, I would be absolutely mortified to have my personal financial info put out on a public forum, down to the amount owed on a car! And the fact that she may not know how to use a cell phone ‘anyway’….that is just too much and ultimately, unnecssary information, you simply could have said, ‘she has a cell phone that she no longer needs’. Your mom is still alive and deserves dignity in what I KNOW FOR A FACT, is a horrible situation. The loss of personal control from the result of an illness is devastating. And even if you are telling it all to teach others, you could have been WAY more discreet and less specific. I beg you not to divulge any more delicate info for the sake of ‘teaching’. Everyone thinks the internet is just one big anonymous tank, but your mom is a person, entitled to HER mistakes, HER financial privacy and HER dignity as a person who has made her way in the world, and through no fault of her own, needs help from her family. You are not in a unique situation at all, and you can instruct in looser, but none the less helpful, generalities. Please consider your mom, did she, can she, would she, give you permission to post her life’s situation? Really, I don’t want to make you more stressed, but think about your mom, and not so much about you. This is the hardest thing you will ever do, taking care of an aging parent. And it is one of the most heart breaking things you will ever do, but remember your mom is a person first, a financial situation second. You won’t regret a single second of the time spent with her….the love you are going to show her…..and setting her affairs straight in the coming years. Trust me. But protect her dignity and privacy.
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J.D.
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It does however give me hope for my own aging mother. You’ve given me a roadmap for when the time comes to help her out. Thanks for sharing.
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I admire you for what you are doing and it makes me sick to my stomach to think about my mother and her husband. At 70, they declared bankruptcy. My sister and I thought that might help, as the final plan in theory gave them enough to live on and even save a bit, but now I am getting calls from Sun Loan (closely related but not quite a payday loan place). I have two kids about to enter college and a lower middle class income – I can’t help her. They are in relatively good health right now, but my mother had a stroke a couple of years ago – what if it happens again???
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It’s always amazing how many inappropriate financial expenses happen with older folks. In addition to unnecessary life insurance (including accidential death) there was unlimited long distance ($80 a month) for a woman who rarely made long distance calls. Those small unidentified credit card charges can really add up especially for things the customer isn’t using.
I thing the suggestion to shut down the credit cards once things settle down is a good one. If your mother is in assisted living for the long haul she won’t need credit cards.
On the good side, I’m glad she’s doing so much better. Sometimes just eating right and getting medicine on time can make a tremendous difference.
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J.D.,
I’m happy to hear that your family is starting to get on top of all these details. Try not to be hard on yourself though. I haven’t noticed any decline in the blog, and you already know that the stress eating in temporary. (But seriously, Twinkies? Blegh.)
Take care and know that you have many, many people wishing you well.
Katy
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This is all extremely helpful to me, now if I could just get my parents to read the related posts!
Incidentally, there have been some similarly-themed posts over at Unclutterer recently, specific to how to organize your records so that in case of incapacity family/friends can cope more easily. Well worth following along with this.
J.D. damn you now I want a Twinkie!
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I just wanted to thank you for sharing such a detailed account of your experience. This is something we don’t talk about nearly enough is happening for more and more of us…taking care of elderly parents and having to walk that fine line between their stated desires and the needs we know they have. It sounds like the whole family is on the right track, and I know from experience that’s a huge piece. Good luck and thank you.
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Feel lucky, my step dad died leaving my disabled mother (she suffered a traumatic brain aneurism 6 years ago) with $300 in the bank and an $1100 rent due in 8 days. This was almost 10 months ago. At least you’ve got cash flow. Managed to get services and support, but it’s never ‘done’. There’s always more paperwork, processes and procedures to work through; as support needs have to constantly be justified based on ongoing income, which varies depending on the assistance that I have been able to secure for her. Thank GOD I live in Canada, for in the USA this would have bankrupted us.
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Good luck! This is a great post and eye-opening for those of us who may someday have to take care of our own parents.
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My grandmother had credit protection, including one that would pay her credit card if she lost her job… she was retired! It took awhile for my mom to get it under control. I agree the POA is extremely important to have. Everyone should have one, even young people.
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JD thanks so much for this article. It is timely and I’ve forwarded it to my father for the work he’s doing with my grandfather. I THINK he’s got POA but just in case he doesn’t this should be a good push for him.
I’m so sorry you and your family are facing this issue. However, it’s nice to see that everyone is unitedly cooperating for the best result for your mom.
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J.D., add my well wishes to everyone else’s here! Thank you for posting these very personal matters. Many of the other commenters have already said it better.
I’m glad you’re talking about this difficult process and the importance of Power of Attorney. I will also look forward to those future posts!
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I have been dealing with the same issues, but for different reasons. My mother is mentally ill and, after many years of living on her own in deplorable conditions (and almost dying) she is finally in care.
But the process has been expensive. 10 days in the ICU, 6 weeks in the hospital, 3 months in a transitional facility all cost $150,000. Now she’s in an assisted living facility with court-ordered medication. It’s fabulous! Like with J.D.’s mom, the care, socialization and family involvement have helped her improve to a level we never thought possible. Her ongoing care costs $4,500/month or so. Fortunately for us, her father left her money in a trust that pays the bills.
One thing to consider, J.D., is if she really can longer care for herself and you have POA, can you get her legally declared “not competent”? My mother has this, for credit purposes the person becomes a “protected person” which means that they cannot give consent for any financial dealings. This tells banks, etc. that they can never collect on money owed for credit cards, cell phone plans, etc.
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$150k…? Wow, I honestly am appreciating where I live more and more everyday.. How can a society allow it’s members to have to bare burdens like this alone?
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Suzanne, it’s possible that mileage varies depending on state…but I can vouch from personal experience with my MIL (now deceased) that in Massachusetts, a person is declared legally incompetent if they cannot tell you (1) the current year, and (2) who is president. If they can say it’s 2011 and Obama is president, Massachusetts considers them legally competent.
I can also vouch from personal experience with the MIL that banks who can “never” collect on money owed for credit cards etc. will promptly sell the debt to a collection agency who will then call you (illegally) night and day in the attempt to get that cash. (We send cease and desist letters when the company will identify themselves, but usually they won’t. We have caller ID and the ringer of our phone is now shut off.)
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One elderly man I know watches CNN 18 hours a day (I wish he’d take advantage of the programs offered in his pioneer home!) so of course he knows the year and President!
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