The Spectacle of Financial Difficulty
Published on - September 29th, 2011 (Modified on - November 3rd, 2011) (by Sarah Gilbert)
This post is from new staff writer Sarah Gilbert.
Both my husband and I have spent some periods of unemployment over the past decade, and we have become intimately familiar with financial humiliation. Having had a red tag left on your doorknob notifying you of the impending shutoff of one of your utilities is not just a reminder you might soon lose a vital public service; it’s a public shaming, and it’s hard not to believe that the water bureau, along with a variety of other crafty creditors, are doing it with intention.
Financial uncertainty brings humiliation
As author Wayne Koestenbaum has written, humiliation is a powerful motivation, and we are more likely to feel the emotion when faced with financial problems than just about any other time in our life post-seventh grade, especially in today’s shaky economy. With a shameful quantity of Americans in poverty; with unemployment steadfastly setting records; with home foreclosures continuing to weigh down the housing market; more Americans than ever are experiencing financial humiliation.
On American Public Media’s Marketplace program, Koestenbaum spoke about the difference between shame and humiliation:
I think shame is a private feeling. It may feel lacerating and terrible, but nobody necessarily sees it. I would say that humiliation requires a scene. It usually requires some act of cruelty or some catalyst from the outside, from some oppressor or tyrant. Let’s say, a boss who fires you. And it requires the spectators who see you lose your job, the bill collectors who come knocking.
The spectacle of financial difficulty
Being in a financial mess is all about the spectacle. If you lose your job, there are the unemployment department employees who must approve your claim. There are the friends on Facebook who will see that you no longer have “employer” information on your profile. Working, but struggling to pay the bills? You’ll get those yellow and pink envelopes in the mailboxes that demonstrate just how late you are. You’ll get the collection calls. If things are really bad, you’ll experience the true humiliation of having a process server visit your house, or a tow truck show up around midnight to repossess your car.
Food stamps, or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), seem designed to enhance the humiliation and let it trickle through your everyday life. The transformation of the program from funny-money bills to debit cards is a step in the right direction, but there are still spectators at every turn (if you think I’m wrong, check out the comments on any article on the Internet anywhere about food stamps; America’s favorite thing to do is to judge what people spend their SNAP benefits on). There are the employees of the county offices who accept and approve your application; there are the employees at the grocery store; there are the people behind you in line, who will inevitably review the contents of your grocery bags and pay attention to what sort of car you drive.
Koestenbaum says that our desire to avoid humiliation is connected to both actual unemployment or even the fear of unemployment:
I think even fearing for the security of one’s job is humiliating. The feeling of being watched or judged. Certainly, losing a job leads to concrete suffering and hardship, but also to a sense of loss of status and self-esteem, a sense of how you appear in others’ eyes. All the markers of identity and dignity are trashed, in a way, when you lose a job.
Humiliation makes you hungry?
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately because of recent news that, while record numbers of Americans are getting SNAP benefits, a third of those who are eligible aren’t using the program. While many critics say that food stamps are abused, the numbers tell the opposite story; that, in fact, the stigma is too much for many of those living in poverty. Many millions of people would rather struggle to pay for food — even to go hungry — than suffer the humiliation of getting and using food stamps.
It’s my belief that humiliation works contrary to our best interests during times of crisis, preventing us from reaching out and asking for help either from social services or family and friends.
Past-due bills and humiliation
Take past-due debt. Those who have suffered a financial setback major enough to start racking up late bills, and the phone calls that go along with them, are the best example of a group for which humiliation works against personal interest. Collections agents are counting on your humiliation and your fear of a poor credit score (which will engender even more humiliation) to convince you to pay your past-dues immediately. At the worst case, it’s a cycle of attempts to avoid shame:
- You can’t afford to pay the whole bill, so you don’t pay it, and don’t attempt to set up a payment plan with the debtor.
- A billing department or collections agent begins calling to make payment arrangements; talking to them would be humiliating, so you avoid the calls.
- Late fees begin to greatly increase the total amount owed.
- Letters begin to arrive offering settlement arrangements; you take the one you can afford, even if you’re paying far more than the original balance due, to avoid the humiliation of an even worse credit score.
- Or, you do not address the balance due until the creditor goes to court, garnishing wages or seizing tax returns, creating even more humiliation and far more expense.
Humiliation does not begin to do its work until things are extremely dire. Avoiding humiliation in small doses (attempting to negotiate a payment plan, or in many cases, simply saying no to a purchase or financial commitment) ends up turning into a huge humiliation wallop, up to and including repossession and foreclosure.
Accept humiliation now to avoid it later
My best advice is to learn to say this now: “I can’t afford that.” My children ask all the time when we’re shopping, “can we afford that?” or “do we have enough money for that?” I look around me at the other shoppers who are within earshot and I say, “no,” even though I’d rather say something more nuanced and prideful (“We can afford that but I’m not comfortable with you buying so many toys,” maybe.). I’ve been through enough financial humiliation to know I’d rather own my budget than aspire to someone else’s.
Being honest with the financial situation with my kids has helped me put my humiliation into perspective. There are far worse faults than not having enough money to buy the Ben 10 Transformer watch. I’d rather teach them that money is not unlimited than let them think I’m just being a meanie (or that I have unlimited funds, until the process servers arrive, that is). And sometimes it’s great to take a call from some obscure-but-well-intentioned non-profit and say to the closer on the phone, “We have absolutely no money for that.”
It can hurt to try, but you should anyway.
It’s our nature to want to avoid pain now at any cost; even greater pain, later. Taking it in small doses is a little like an inoculation; keep doing it, and eventually, you’ll be humiliation-resistant. And hopefully in a far better financial place.
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One of my most humiliating memories is of a school assembly where the headmaster read out a list of names of students whose parents hadn’t paid the school fees yet. My name was on that list. I’ll never forget the burning shame, or how awkward it was trying to act normally with my friends afterwards.
In the long run, it was probably a good experience. As an adult, I’ve become a stickler for paying bills and fees on time, and I’ve never gotten in financial trouble. I still haven’t forgiven my mother, though.
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That does NOT sound like a good experience if you’re harboring such resentment over that scene. And frankly, I think that the headmaster is a bad person for holding children accountable for their parent’s financial issues. Today, he could be sued citing privacy laws, and rightly so.
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The thing is, it was a private school, and the reason I was attending in the first place was because my parents wanted to keep up appearances. Everything in life was about keeping up appearances, and avoiding humiliation.
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I know a lot of people that try to keep up appearances also. I’m sorry you had to grow up in that environment.
Someone I know worries about her daugher misbehvaing, being anxious, etc… The thing is if she’d back off or get some mental help herself it’d do more good for the daughter. Cause the kid is just like her only she doesn’t see the problem in herself.
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Seriously, a grudge against your mother? Over this?? I do hope you are kidding. The headmaster is the inexcusable party here. If you want empowerment over this humiliating memory, please consider contacting the school and 1) ask for an apology and 2) make sure that they have discontinued the practice so that current students don’t have to feel the same pain that you have.
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At my kids’ school, they do not give out the report cards on the last day to any child whose parents are not up-to-date on tuition payments.
Needless to say, every year more than a few kids’ parents allow them to be absent on that last day.
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That’s HORRIBLE.
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That is reality. Private schools run a tight ship. If ten percent do not pay- the school closes.
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It was 25 years ago, so it hardly seems worth the trouble of demanding an apology now, much as I’d like to. And as for my mother? Just part of a pattern of ruinous financial habits.
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Oh Jasmine, what a terrible experience. I went to a private school too and I can only imagine how that must have felt for you.
I’m glad you were able to glean something positive about the harm “keeping up appearances” can do.
Every few years my parents would look at their finances and warn us kids that we might have to go to public school next year. The way my mom talked about public schools, I would be terrified – I expected to be eaten alive the second I stepped in the door. I found out later that we lived in a nice middle-class neighborhood and its school had a good reputation — but my mom used public school as a threat to motivate me to keep my grades up, behave well, etc.
The irony is that she and my dad both have excellent public-school educations.
I appreciate the good education I did get at private school, but geez.
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I wish there were a better way for charities such as the United Way to judge whether someone is really “needy.” I would rather pay my mortgage on time (more or less…) and live on packets of grits & grape jelly for a few days than get thrown out of the house along with a pantry full of food. But that’s not to say it’s any kind of joy. So why is it so difficult to get someone to understand when I swallow my pride and request help with a week’s worth of groceries? What I get is an interrogation, someone clicking a calculator on the other end, saying I “don’t qualify.” I didn’t even just show up at the food bank without an appointment — I called first to inquire. In the midst of this I’m thinking well, some people are chronically poor, really down & out, I should be grateful, etc. All this is true. But after the way I’ve been treated when my lunch consisted of a hard-boiled egg, I am very reluctant to attend those meetings at work where they try to get us to pledge money to the United Way. I hope somebody from that organization reads this.
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I see this a lot working in a financial aid office at a public university. We see students and parents every day who are ashamed of their financial situation, and are embarrassed to present their tax returns to be considered for financial aid. Also, many people are ashamed to speak with their student loan lenders when they find themselves in a financial hardship. What they don’t realize is that there are generous forbearance options which will postpone payment based on financial hardship. This is much much better than defaulting on student loans, but I believe that people’s pride gets in their way a lot of times.
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I have started to wonder what finance people will say when the parents come in with student loans – trying to get loans for their children.
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I though this was an interesting article. It was thought-provoking, but at the same time it made me wince. For some reason, I don’t like the notion that money humiliates us — that doesn’t seem possible. Instead, I think we humiliate ourselves because we put so much value on money and on appearances.
I remember how my parents used to act when we were kids and they were struggling to make ends meet. We were poor — there were times when neither my mother nor father had work, and we didn’t know where the next meal would come from — but they were very resistant to seeking outside help. When I was in fifth grade, they sent us back to school in used clothing from the thrift store (the horror! <– sarcasm), and they felt ashamed and so did I. Looking back, though, it was all in how we framed things.
Now I see one of my brothers going through similar psychological gyrations. He and his family are spenders, and as a result, they’ve already been bankrupt and lost two homes to foreclosure. But still they spend. Why? To keep up appearances. They’re afraid of the stigma of looking like they can’t afford the Stuff everyone else has. But that just puts them further along the road to future humiliation.
And, of course, I think much of the problem comes when we focus outward, comparing ourselves to others. As always, I think it’s important to remember that nobody cares more about your money than you do. Only in this context, it means something entirely different…
I don’t really have any Big Thoughts on this subject, but I do think it’s interesting. I’m curious if any GRS readers have experienced shame or humiliation in relation to money. Is this always a bad thing? When is it good?
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About 15 years ago, early in our marriage, I finally could not hide how much debt I’d brought with me with me into the marriage. I will never, ever forget that awful conversation with my husband; we walked round and round the parking lot of our apartment complex as I cried, apologized and told him everything. He was shocked, just astounded at how deep a hole I’d dug.
The story has a happy ending, because I married a much better man even than I knew. We paid off all the debt, we kept saving, we earned more, and now we are completely debt free with very good savings. And I’ve been able to financially support him while he went back to school and retrained for his “do what you love” career, which he started this year.
I don’t know if it’s just shame, or if the definition of humiliation includes exposing bad things to a loving spouse; but whatever it was, I do not ever want to feel that way again and I will not ever hide things from him like that again.
So, yeah, in my opinion shame & humiliation can, in the end, be very good things.
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I generally try to make sure my kids clothes look nice when they go to school even if it means going a little slim on the groceries. I don’t make a point to buy designer clothes and I have no problem with gently worn hand-me-downs. It isn’t pride or a need to keep up with the Joneses, so much as an attempt to defend my children when I cannot be there to protect them.
People, at least initially, use your appearance to make judgements about you and to decide how they will treat you. Kids that look like their parents cannot or will not invest in their care are fair game to a lot of kids, and sadly, to some teachers and administrators.
I think that our family is at the high end of working poor and our oldest daughter graduated from high school last year with academic honors. She was in some advanced placement classes and it was very surreal for her the way most of the kids in those classes viewed the world. The teachers also tended to assume that all the kids in those classes had the resources to come up with cash for projects on short notice. In other words, it wasn’t as well set up to help kids from families like ours improve their lots in life as much as the rhetoric I’ve heard would have lead me to believe.
We got through it and she is now a freshman at the local university. She lives at home, but she hasn’t had to take out any student loans to cover any of her expenses. Between her grants and scholarships, her books were covered and she had a bit left over to pay for the occasional meal on campus.
Sometimes, when you are trying to improve your situation, you have sort of camouflage yourself to “pass” for lack of a better word. The humiliation some people will visit upon you if they believe you are financially vulnerable is a real thing. You just have to be clever and resourceful about the way you play the game. And always remember that it’s a game.
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I used to teach at a private school, and one of my scholarship kids came from a not-too-well-off family who had to scrimp and save for every little thing. He was bullied by his classmates for bringing “house-brand” products in his lunchbox! I still cannot believe that a bunch of otherwise intelligent kids were willing to judge their classmate merely for the brand of soda that he drank. But that’s how kids are.
He dropped out, in the end.
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and my question would be…where were the adults in this school situation and why did they let the privileged kids think this situation–the condemnation–was acceptable?
It’s always amazing to me how many stories there are from adults about witnessing a pack-stoning mentality in children without remembering that they themselves, as a witness and non-participant- are condoning the behavior for the affecting kids psychologically by either remaining silent or taking a “kids have to work it out” stance…
no, they are kids, they are to be taught; they are not born with all the requisite software. If they get malware installed, its the surrounding adults that either install it or forgo to install protections.
This idea that money=worth, is an all too pervasive malware in this american society. It is also another hack to think that one has the right TO JUDGE another human by this criteria.
Having money or not having money is not a sin; thinking not having money is a sin…is a sin.
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What was your contribution to help that kid? You were the teacher..
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Kids will tease about anything. I was teased because of bringing leftovers to school for lunch rather than things like potato chips or other items that could be traded. And I didn’t get to buy cafeteria meals (why waste perfectly good leftovers?). I’m sure I ate better but I envied the kids who could get the cafeteria meal, especially on pizza day.
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It’s Homecoming Week at my kids’ private school (they attend almost free because my husband teaches there and everyone else is quite wealthy and we are barely middle class) and my kindergartner came home crying yesterday because “everyone else” was wearing a Homecoming shirt and we hadn’t bought him one. He never ever cares about his clothes and school clothes aren’t a big deal because they wear (used) uniforms and no one can tell the difference. But geez, I felt bad realizing we were the only ones who didn’t/couldn’t cough up $15 to wear a one-time-only t-shirt.
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Just curious, but how would you guys have dealt with this situation? My friend in 3rd grade was overweight (back in the days when it was uncommon) and was sometimes called “piggy” by the boys. One day our well-meaning but inexperienced homeroom teacher called a class meeting, made the girl stand up, and pointed at her saying forcefully, “Everybody pay attention: this girl is not a pig, she’s a human being.” Needless to say, I think that was probably more humiliating than the actual teasing from classmates.
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Wow! That’s RIDICULOUS about your kindergardner. They should give everyone a shirt or make everyone buy one (like part of the uniform).
I also think more schools should have uniforms so kid’s clothing doesn’t tell what class they’re in (like the parent above who has to spend what could be spent on additional food so that the kids look decent enough not to get teased.).
Jasmine, I agree. The teacher should have talked to the kids when your friend wasn’t around. I don’t know what I would have done in your situation though.
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I agree, JD—for example, I was surprised when reading the post to find that Sarah felt self-conscious about saying “we can’t afford that” to her kid in the grocery store who wanted a toy. Because I say that to my kids *all the time* in the store! I’m far from poor–but I don’t think it’s good parenting to encourage my kids to whine and demand to get every toy they see. If anyone overheard me saying that to my kids in the store, I would have guessed that they would probably thought that I was trying to be a good parent or something. I so was surprised to hear that Sarah felt saying that exact same thing would label her as shamefully poor in the eyes of others.
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I usually say “Sorry. That’s not in the budget this week.” Sometimes I point out something else we *are* getting. The kids are usually just fine with that, even if they aren’t happy about not getting what they asked for.
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Haha! I totally stole the “it’s not in the budget” line too. It totally works.
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That is exactly what I say too – “it’s not in the budget.” It totally took a lot of stress off me to take the kids shopping more because I always cringed when I had to say no, we don’t have the money. Saying its not in the budget can mean either we don’t have the money, or it isn’t an important enough item to spend money on at this point. I do also say – sorry that is out of our price range sometimes too. I have no issues with that either. Because really, it just reconfirms to the minions that shopping should be a conscious thing, not just buying things on a whim too. It has really helped shaped how they look at what we are willing and not willing to buy for them.
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My kids learned very early that no meant no. I never felt as though I had to give an explanation. They also learned that if they didn’t take the no gracefully, I would automatically say no to the next request the next time we were shopping. I would not tolerate whining. They learned that a polite request had a better chance of getting a yes.
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When you don’t offer an explanation, you are only teaching them that you are the boss. I don’t disagree about teaching kids to respect authority, but I believe very strongly that children benefit from understanding the rationale behind decisions we make. I believe it is a very important part of teaching critical thinking skills.
You can teach both respect for legitimate authority and teach the ability to think critically. The two are not mutually exclusive and I would feel negligent in my duties as a parent if I refused to offer explanations because I was too threatened by an honest question to provide an honest answer.
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bkwrm-there shouldn’t have to be any additional whining though…
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I would use the language “we can’t afford that” very cautiously. Of course if you truly are living hand to mouth, that’s a different story. But I grew up thinking that my parents were poor because they always said we couldn’t afford things when we actually could. It’s better to just say, “No, you can’t have that.”
I just think it sends the wrong message to essentially lie. And your children will grow up with a skewed perception of your finances.
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Jane, I completely agree. I grew up middle class and my parents used “we can’t afford that” for everything since I was quite young. It led me to worry if my parents could afford the groceries, the house…things a child should not have to fret over. My view of finances were skewed for a while. I wish they had told me it was not in the budget and explained what that was. God knows I would have caught on to budgeting much earlier.
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I live in a mostly working-class neighborhood, and saying “no” to my kid automatically means people assume we can’t afford it. There’s no shaming attached, but several times other moms have given my kid something I’ve said no to, often when they can obviously barely afford it for their own kids.
So I’ve relaxed a lot of my standards on small things, especially candy and little plastic things – it’s important, socially, to participate in things and share back with people who’ve shared with you. If that means SillyBandz or disposable glow bracelets on the 4th of July, then that’s what it means.
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I usually say, “We didn’t come here to buy that” or “I didn’t bring enough money today to get that”. I’m trying to teach my daughter that you need to plan purchases and not just buy a bunch of stuff on a whim because it looks cool.
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I typically say, “I didn’t bring money for X today, I only brought money for food (or for what is on my shopping list).” The other thing I do that has been good with my almost 7 year old, is I give him an allowance – he gets $10/month and whenever he sees something at a store that he wants and asks for, I always say something like “We can see how much you have in your piggy bank when we get home and if you still want it, we can come back tomorrow and get it.” 99% of the time he either decides it is not worth HIS money or he forgets about it.
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The only problem with “I can’t afford that” is that I feel like, if I actually have the money, then it’s a lie.
“It’s not in the budget” also reflects that spending is something one decides on, and can even be planned – it doesn’t just happen.
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I also think “I don’t want to buy that” is a valid answer. Especially if you’re willing to let the kid use their own money (assuming the kid has their own money) to buy it.
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I say to my kids, ‘my money is for groceries and other household items – if you want to buy x then you need to use your pocket money”, thereby avoiding issues of what I can /cannot afford. And once they are looking at spending their own money, however small, they soon figured out that buying lollies and other junk meant it took longer to save up for the toys they wanted.
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“The only problem with “I can’t afford that” is that I feel like, if I actually have the money, then it’s a lie.”
I disagree. That’s an excessively literal interpretation of “can’t afford.” It’s like saying someone doesn’t have the time for something–unless you’re about to die, you have effectively the same time anyone else does. Most people interpret “don’t have the time” to mean “not a sufficient priority given competing demands.” It’s the same with money.
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I was also surprised that Sarah felt any degree of shame saying, “We can’t afford that.” It’s funny–I grew up in an extremely wealthy household, but we did not “live” rich beyond living in a super expensive area (our house was ordinary) and my attending an expensive private school (where I wore a uniform). My mom told me all the time, including in public, that we couldn’t afford certain things, and I never took it as something to be ashamed of. It was just how my parents wanted to spend their money, a finite resource. It was also very clear that I was responsible for earning money for my personal discretionary spending from about age 13 on, so I was used to telling other people I couldn’t afford it.
This makes me wonder to what extent the “shame” comes from personal believes rather than poverty per se.
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I remember a few years ago when this story worked backwards; high end stories like Hermes or Barneys were giving plain brown bags so that their shoppers could feel less embarrassed about their wealth.
I also have a good friend who owns several apartment buildings in a university town (in his mid 30s). He is desperate to appear non-rich and when he meets perspective dates he bends over backwards to appear poor or at most average in the wealth department (despite a net worth of several million).
The shame and appearance factor can work both ways!
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I can understand if someone is being conscious to not perhaps rub their wealth in another’s face on purpose, but I don’t think anyone should be ashamed of their wealth. I just don’t get that. You can have empathy for those that don’t have what you had, and always dressing appropriately (as in…it probably is over the top wearing $300 sneakers to work with a volunteer group to clean up a park or volunteer at a soup kitchen), why worry about what others think?
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People should be ashamed of some kinds of spending. If they’re spending several hundred dollars on a Hermes scarf, and walking past homeless people on the way home, most people would feel at least a twinge of shame.
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@Rosa – Why SHOULD they be ashamed? It’s not like they are rubbing it in the homeless persons face. Its not their fault that the person is homeless…
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We’re ALL responsible for the state of our country, where we choose to stint on social services to the point where families with little kids end up on the street. Those of us with more money, are more responsible – it’s a system where money = power.
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Hiding wealth is not generally due to ‘shame’. You might hide your expensive Barney’s purchase so you aren’t mugged. You might hide your net worth of millions when going on dates so you can avoid the gold diggers. A landlord might hide his wealth so his tenants don’t feel an excuse to cheat him on the rent. You’d be surprised how many tenants really think that “the landlord is rich” is a good reason to not pay their rent.
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That’s a very astute comment. I have a friend who’s a MND kind of guy. He owns several apartment buildings and all the tenants think he’s the handyman. You’d never suspect by the truck he drives or the clothes he wears.
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Diane,
I think that’s how it should be.
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Well JD “money” doesn’t humiliate you, and yes you can see “you humiliate yourself” but the fact is that we are status-seeking social animals and a loss of status is always painful– it’s hardwired in our brains.
See here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/3340625/Social-status-is-hard-wired-into-our-brains.html
In social animals like wolves, zoologists have measured higher levels of cortisol (stress) in lower-ranking individuals. Nobody goes around taking urine samples from unemployed people but you can see how that works.
To me, the answer to the social humiliation of having a low income (I grew up pretty well-off) is to adopt a punk rock attitude and learn to give the finger to social expectations. It of course helps to have a like-minded tribe who shares similar values and doesn’t give a damn.
In Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell discusses a small town of people in Pennsylvania where everybody lived to a ripe old age. The cause? Not diet or climate, but an egalitarian culture that reduced the stress of hardship.
Here, some free music to ease the pain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERV3_UGGaU
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Oh, they do collect urine samples from unemployed people – it’s called “drug testing!”
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oh, that! being self-employed, i had forgotten this exists. they don’t do it to measure cortisol metabolites though. it’s not like “your urine test shows you’re stressed the hell out, and we’re going to give you a job to reduce that stress!”
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Our “social animality” has helped our species get to where it is today. However there are downsides to that as per the post. There unscrupulous people using it against us (marketing, collections, etc). And there are inherent negatives, such as sacrificing personally to help the group.
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I agree that it’s all just a matter of perspective. For example, when I was a kid we were very low-income, and I was MORTIFIED that I often wore used clothing and that we shopped at Kmart. I would lie about where my clothing came from, and once I even hid when I saw another classmate at Kmart. Toward the end of high school, I learned that it’s all about perception and framing. I started wanting to shop at used clothing stores – used clothing became cool when you called it “vintage” – and people thought I was fashionable when I proudly talked about deals I got at the thrift stores. As a college student and an adult, I now happily brag about deals I get at Target, Ross and other discount stores. I’d never think to be embarrassed. If someone compliments my dress, I might say “Thanks, it was only $15 at Target,” and then I feel even better about my fashionable self for getting a bargain. It really is all about our own perception and what we choose to project and to feel. This is especially true with kids and adults who “feel poor.” Usually, that’s a relative term. So a middle-income person will “feel poor” if he or she lives in a rich neighborhood or goes to a fancy private school. If your kids hang around with kids mostly of their income group, they often won’t even know they are missing out on stuff even if they really are poor.
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Just as an aside. When my kids got asked where their thrift store Tommy H togs from, their well worn line was “my mom got it for me”
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It is all about one’s perception and projection. Growing up we were ‘low-income’; my parents always made things work, though. I would change how it phrased to us, I think. It has taken me quite some time to learn money skills. I will spend months researching a product before purchasing. For everyday items, I know what stores in my area have the best price vs gas expense. I have no sense of guilt, shame or humiliation in my frugality- only triumph. If I must pay a little more for quality, I will- but never merely for quantity as I frequently seem to see around me.
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I grew up with not a lot of money. Shame was a constant for me. I rarely invited friends over, because I didn’t want them to see that the 6 of us lived in a 1-bedroom apt.
I attended a very elite private high school on scholarship, and my years there were an endless series of small shames. No one else caused it – people were incredibly generous and non-judgmental. But the constant litany of having to scramble for rides to the train station because I couldn’t afford a taxi; (it was boarding school; this was in order to go home or have my parents visit) borrowing friends’ clothes for nice events; buying a group Christmas present because I couldn’t afford one for all my friends; borrowing money for *everything* – shampoo, food, school trips, fees, etc. – until my next scholarship allowance came in – all of this was humiliating.
Don’t tell me there’s no shame in money. Of course, the upside is that now, as an adult, I have phenomenally good money management skills.
I’ve actually never really thought about this before, so I’m glad this topic was brought up. I’ve never realized before now what an impression those experiences left on me.
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There’s a difference between the kind of tight circumstances that make you buy used clothes for the kids (or as my mom had to do one year, borrow from a neighbor to pay for school supplies) and the kind that has you moving out in the middle of the night because you can’t pay the rent, or standing in separate lines each evening because Daddy can’t be in the “family” shelter with the wife and kids.
I think you’re right about it not being the money though – it’s other people that do the humiliating, whether it’s a bad attitude from a checkout clerk when someone uses SNAP, or kids at school being mean to a kid whose winter boots don’t match their coat because only one or the other could be bought new that year.
I’m really proud of the way our school handles free breakfast and lunch, and the total matter-of-factness of cashiers about WIC/SNAP transactions at our grocery stores. But the stories I hear about how terrible it is just to go through the signup process for public benefits outside the schools are infuriating. A friend of mine who worked but didn’t have health insurance because her employer was too cheap to offer it was asked by a state insurance intake person what the race of her baby’s father was, when she went to sign up for prenatal care – how many women just go without medical care rather than run the gauntlet?
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There is no need to feel shame or worry about what strangers think about you. They are not responsible for your happiness. By allowing others to make you feel shamed, you’re giving them even more power over you. If you are in a bad situation, you are in a bad situation. Nobody else need be concerned with that. We’ve been conditioned to care what others think, but that clerk at the checkout who you feel is judging you for what you use food stamps to buy, or the bill collector calling who comes across as angry, when they go home they do not remember you. Why would you allow them to dictate your happiness? These negative feelings are your own doing. Accept what is happening right now as what is, with neither a positive or negative feeling, and realize that this, like all things, will pass.
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Mondo- I wish I could “like” your comment twelve times!
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I totally agree!
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I disagree, for reasons I explained above. No man is an island, blah blah. Your community matters– if you’re surrounded by status-minded jerks you’ll suffer more than if you’re surrounded by people who approach you with solidarity (not charity).
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We didn’t have problems with our money – just not much of it. But I did teach my children to not feel humiliated if they were teased for something that wasn’t popular.
I told them that people who looked down on other people usually did so because they felt their ideas and ways were better than yours and they had a lot of confidence. To prove it, I suggested they wear something very outrageous to school. When others made fun of them, just say, “Well, if you don’t have the guts to wear it, that’s not my problem. Get a life!” I assured them if they strutted their stuff, others would be mimicing them within 2-3 weeks. Confidence is like other skills, fake it until you make it.
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I don’t think that’s what bothers most people. It’s not what other people think of me – or thought of me – that was the problem when I had financial difficulties.
It was the shame I felt at myself. That I was a loser in not being able to even make a normal, decent living for myself and my kids.
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Jacq, I totally get that. It was never so much what others thought, it was more of a shamed feeling when i was stuggling just for basics.
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Self chosen hardship is always better than forced hardship and humiliation. Also. don’t forget that in self hardship you are only saving for your dues but, in forced hardship you save for due+interest and added humiliation.
Good post Sarah!
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“America’s favorite thing to do is to judge what people spend their SNAP benefits on”
I remember working as a student at a supermarket that would take asylum seeker vouchers for clothing as well as food. I always thought this was a great thing – some of the kids were clearly in desperate need of clothing, but I found that others thought it was “pandering” to them as the vouchers were technically only meant for food (how they were meant to clothe their growing children, I don’t know, as the vouchers appeared to be the only income they were legally allowed…)
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While I think that SNAP and other types of help should exist, I don’t think it should be able to be used to take cash out of the ATM – which they do here in MA and then by lottery tickets, toys and cases of beer.
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SNAP can only be used for food. What you are thinking of is “cash aid”(welfare payment). Both are put on the same card. So someone might get $300 dollars in cash aid and $200 of food stamps. They have to spend the $200 on food but can use the rest how they please.
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My best friend in high school had his car repossessed from the school parking lot because his parents didn’t pay his car note.
We didn’t know until we walked out after school and saw an empty parking space where his car had been parked that morning. He ran inside and called the police, thinking the car had been stolen, and then called his parents.
That was quite an embarrassing moment for him. Oddly enough, he went on to have his own financial problems later in life, repeating the mistakes his parents made and caused him much humiliation as a teen.
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I went through a long period of being unemployed at the end of the previous recession. During that time I ended up without even the money to do a bankruptcy. Even my retirement savings were gone.
So I found myself with no choice but to default on several loans. The only loan I had which was secured (a car loan) I did a voluntary repossession, but the creditor still wanted several thousand dollars.
In the end I just let things go and waited to see how it all worked out. When I finally found a job 29 months after I was laid off, only one of my creditors went to court to obtain a judgement, but this had the advantage (to me) of forcing me to set my lifestyle to live off of only 75% of my new (and already much smaller) paycheck. Once that was finally paid off, I started banking the rest to rebuild my finances.
By that time all of my original creditors had long since written off the debts. They had sold them to several collection firms for a few cents on the dollar (most of these firms pay 5% to buy the debt then try to extract 50% or more from the debtors – a huge windfall for them).
Some may argue that I should have paid those firms , but having had them call and harass me when I had nothing (one told me I should take the money I had managed to scrape together for rent and send it to them as a partial payment instead, then cussed me out over the phone when I dared to suggest that not being evicted in the middle of winter was a higher priority to me) I frankly had no desire to deal with them.
Luckily there is the statute of limitations. In Maryland it’s 3 years for unsecured debts. Since my credit score was damaged either way already, and the debts were long since written off by the original creditors (the ones I feel I had an obligation to) I decided to not play the collectors’ games.
I changed my number to an unlisted number and ignored the handful of letters they sent (most did not want to put anything in writing). None of them have tried to get a judgement, because they know they can’t get past the SoL unless I do something to reset the time limit.
A decade after I was laid off my credit’s improved. I’ve managed to save up enough for the down payment to buy a house now that house prices have dropped in this recession, but otherwise I refuse to use credit again. If I had given in demands and harassment to the collection firms, I’d probably have another 7 or 8 years of barely making ends meet while they would be making a huge proft (900% or more) on the debts they had bought. Instead I’m able to start saving and make sure that if/when I get laid off again some day, I’ll have the ability to get through another prolonged period of unemployment. Heck, I may even be able to retire someday.
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The SoL and the creditors who buy your expired debts for pennies on the dollar, is a little discussed skeleton in the credit closet. Talk about shady. I went through all this with my husband before we were married. My first instinct was to pay. Thankfully, I took the time to research first. Most of these debts were so old and had been sold so many times they couldn’t even tell you what it was originally for. And they’re trying to shame me!?
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Good for you! The difference between businesses and individuals is that individuals have the ability to have emotions (including shame), and many of our money decisions are based on those emotions. If a business had made similar decisions in discharging its debts, those decisions would be applauded as very savvy.
The financial system we have in place favors those who can set their emotions aside, looks at all of the rules governing their situation, and decide which actions will best benefit them. You did exactly that, and you emerged a winner. Well done!!
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Ah, rude creditors. I learned to cuss at them before they cussed me. I also had a lawsuit thrown out of court with papers I bought off the internet. Why be ashamed when you can get angry– shame loses fights but anger gives you a chance of punching back.
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I think JD’s right. Its all how we frame it. Used clothes and food stamps = shame. When they should and can = smart living within our means, or perhaps a different values system. This is what I love about the PF blogosphere. Suddenly those decisions to change your priorities, to skip the lunch out and brown bag, to say ‘I dont want to spend money on that’ or ‘I can’t afford that’ those decisions aren’t embarrassing. They might even mean you have leg up on the next guy.
Food stamps mean you are trying to feed your family. Used clothing means you are frugal (among other things). I’d like to see us wear these decision with pride.
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How on earth can using food stamps = living within your means? If you have to have someone else pay for your food your you are living above your means. You need to strive to increase your means or decrease your expenses.
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Most people I know who have taken food stamps have children to feed, which is what motivated them to overcome the humiliation. Do you suggest letting your kids go hungry until you figure out how to live within your means? Food stamps are usually a temporary situation for a family, no matter what the public notion is…
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It is hard not to judge when the person in line in front of you uses food stamps to buy milk and cash to buy alcohol and cigarettes.
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In response to the above poster: how dare the poor not be perfect and vice-free, amiright?
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imelda 120
They don’t need to be perfect, however if you have to resort to spending someone elses dime (food stamps) to feed your family they should at least make an attempt to be frugal…Beer and smokes are not frugal and probably part of the reason they are in this position.
Give up the beer and smokes, use the money saved to purchase food for your family and you’ll feel successful and be one step closer to financial independence..
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People need to be careful about reproducing — either not having kids at all or maybe just one. Kids cost money and the world is awfully crowded….
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While you are working to increase your means, you use the food stamps to eat. That’s how you stay alive while you work things out. It’s such a basic concept it wasn’t included in the previous equation, but perhaps it should have been…
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With a national unemployment rate of 9%, increasing your means isn’t always that easy. As you are working on that, you gotta keep food on the table. There is no shame in taking food stamps to do that.
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PS you can’t use food stamps to buy tobacco or alcohol.
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You cannot buy alcohol or tobacco. But I work in an industry with some of the major cigarette companies and there is actually a trend that cigarette sales increase early in the month every month. It is suggested that people recieve welfare and use their extra cash to buy cigarettes during this time, and as the month goes on and their check decreases, they have to use their extra cash to buy food instead of cigarettes.
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Annnnnd THIS is where the humiliation comes from…being judged by people who just do not get it. When someone loses a job and eats through their savings and cuts back on everything and still can’t live “within their means”, where do they go from there? Homelessness? Starvation? How do they feed their kids in the interim?
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Mondo, all I’m saying is that these snap dollars are not going to buying things like cigarettes or alcohol (a few other things as well) so people who complain about money going for that are misguided. But no, unless you are going to outlaw tobacco and alcohol in general you can’t legislate what people are going to buy with their own cash, or even if they are going to use the snap money the most optiminum/efficient way (force them to buy all beans and rice for example). This again gets into the whole “humiliation” aspect of accepting snap money, the judgements of one’s character thrown in for free… Seriously these people don’t even have health insurance, good luck trying to quit smoking without ANY support structures in place.
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Exactly! Thank you for saying this. Food stamps are not just for anyone, there are income levels to be met, it’s not for people who ‘live beyond their means.’ It’s food, people. Food. We need it to live. I used to work for a nonprofit food bank and I was always amazed at the vitriol and judgmental attitudes that people had towards people who needed assistance with food. Do you think people like asking for this kind of help? Help with covering the most basic of our human needs? In my time at the organization, on more than one occasion I spoke with people who had jobs who needed assistance with food, it was difficult for them to make ends meet. Getting food via SNAP or a food bank isn’t a fun thing, it’s a last resort.
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I also volunteered at a food bank for several months and saw all kinds of people. Many had jobs but could not feed their entire family. They would buy groceries, but supplement with the produce and baby food/supplies we offered. We could never keep enough diapers in stock. We served homeless people, those in shelters, families, individuals…people from their 20s to their 70s. It was an eye-opener.
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I can imagine the shame of using food stamps, because it probably feels similar to using WIC, which we do use.
When we were in dire financial straits and living with my parents in the nice section of town, the cashiers in the grocery store were nice about it, and more coupon-friendly toward when they had just done my WIC order. But they were so out of practice on doing WIC that they had to call over their manager to show them how. Meanwhile I’m getting evil glares from everyone in line behind me. I was even too embarrassed in those stores to get my folder out until I was in line, so I memorized the vouchers so I could pick the food out without looking at a voucher.
Now my husband has a better job, and we are living on our own, in the not-so-nice section of town. I don’t feel as humiliated about the WIC vouchers now, because I figure a lot of people in line behind me have gotten WIC at some point too.
I still feel judged because we both have iphones, though. What they don’t know is that my husband’s company pays for his phone and I’m on my father-in-law’s family plan, and with my FIL’s employee discount & generosity I’m paying way less than I would for any other cell phone. We would love to pay less in rent but we found the cheapest 2-bedroom in the area, and for some reason, no one will allow our family of 4 to live in a one bedroom apartment. We would if we could.
My husband walks & rides the bus to work, but we still need a car so I can get to my part time job. With all these expenses, we have found it necessary to remain on WIC.
I used to be horrible about judging people. Ok, I’m still working on it. Just remember (and I’m preaching to myself here) that (1.) you don’t really know what’s going on in someone’s else’s life, give them the benefit of the doubt. And (2.) take a careful look at your own life before casting stones at others. No one is perfect.
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Thanks for mentioning the cell phones. I have always tended to be judgemental about Medicaid patients with iphones. I get by with the cheapest Virgin mobile phone and have always been jelous of those who can afford more. It is good to remember that they may be paid for by someone else.
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This is an excellent, thought-provoking post… the kind of post that keeps me coming back to GRS.
IMHO learning that different people make different choices, and that there are always trade-offs, is an important lesson for kids. Instead of always seeing what they DON’T have, it gives them an opportunity to think about what they might have to give up to get what they want.
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I see part of this differently. Our household earnings put us in the top 2% of Americans, but I grew up poor. I am proud to buy pre-used “pre-loved” clothes; it is a form of recycling, and you can get judge fit and material quality after an item has been washed a few times. Same things for toys, household items; anything that is safe to buy used. Now that my kids have an allowance and have to buy all non-discretionary items from it, they whine much less. I don’t need to say “we can’t afford it.” I say “It’s not a good value” or “we don’t need it” or “think about if you want to spend your allowance on it.” Sometimes, with other people in earshot, I’ll say “that’s junk and we don’t waste our money on junk.” Just because you can afford something doesn’t mean you should afford something. So be ashamed about teaching your kids about healthy, thrifty decision-making.
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I don’t even have to make the judgement anymore; kiddo knows what I will and will not buy for him, for anything else the rule is “you have $X, is this what you want to spend it on?”
Sometimes it is. But if he never wastes his money on crap, how is he going to learn not to? He knows my reasoning – if it was something I wanted him to have, I’d buy it.
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A friend of mine is having a baby, but is not married. She lives with the babies father and they are engaged. He works a full time job and makes decent money and she works part time. Since they are not married she receives WIP credits that allow her to get groceries for free. It really bothers me though – because they can easily afford it. They just found a loop hole in the system to abuse getting free stuff. I especially bothers me after reading this article that people that DO NEED the help are too humiliated to take the help while others abuse it. Flaws with every social program I guess – can’t take it away just because a few abuse something that others really need…
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My guess, but maybe it depends on the state (?) is that she’s breaking the law. I believe that if she’s living with another adult, she has a legal obligation to report that person’s income, and likely would then not qualify for food stamps. I don’t have any first hand experience here, but I remember a similar conversation with my FIL, who has a subsidized rental property.
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I think technically she has a legal obligation to report this information (I would think), but I’m not sure how the government goes about verifying this if the person chooses not to be completely honest. I guess at some point you just have to hope that people are honest enough not to abuse a program – even if the government is doing their due diligence to ensure compliance.
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And “due diligence” can feel like harrassment and intentional humiliation to those who are truly honest. I think a lot of people don’t collect benefits like SNAP and Medicaid because the qualification process feels like an endless, accusatory tribunal.
I understand the need to protect government benefits from fraudsters. There are no easy answers.
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Loopholes (flaws) are different than people screwing the system…
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I think you are being judgemental. Just because someone makes a “decent” living doesn’t necessarily mean that he is rolling in cash. Maybe he has his own dirty secrets (i.e. debt) that he is paying off. And by his girlfriend getting help with food he is able to still do it.
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Am I understanding you correctly?
Using food stamps to feed your kid and boyfriend is ok if your boyfriend is paying off consumer debt…That is just Insane!
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She is absolutely committing fraud. I am a welfare fraud investigator for the State of Michigan. I’m not familiar with the term/program “WIP.” Perhaps she is on WIC, and I am not 100% sure of their policies because WIC is usually administered by the county and I don’t deal with WIC. If she is on Food Stamps (which she probably is, if she is on WIC) then she has not found a “loophole in the system,” she IS committing fraud. Welfare fraud over $500 is a felony. She is under an obligation to report all adults in the home and their income. No matter what state she is in, the reporting requirements are the same because the money for Food Stamps is doled out to the states by the federal government. Christian, you may want to call the local office that is issuing her benefits and make the “man in home” report and his income. Some states have an entire agency devoted to welfare fraud and others have a less formal approach, but every state would be interested in that information regarding a Food Stamp recipient.
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I do not know if it is still the case, but the income guidelines for WIC used to be pretty generous.
From what I’ve seen of WIC as both a client and someone trained as a breastfeeding peer counselor, WIC, though an excellent program, is as much about supporting the dairy industry as it is about supporting struggling families. The amount of money that is allotted to WIC for breastfeeding support was minuscule compared to that provided for infant formula vouchers. Or that’s how it was when my now-teenage children were younger.
WIC is still, IMO, one of the very best programs going. They provide valuable information about diet and nutrition. My WIC lady was my best support person when I was a first time mom at 22 and trying to breastfeed my daughter. Because of her support, I breastfed all of my children until they were at least nine months old. I’ve talked to so many other women that gave up on breastfeeding, but I had Margie, and she kept me going.
The feeling I always got about WIC, was that the food vouchers are sort of the bait to get you to go in, get you and your child’s height, weight, and blood iron checked get some information about nutrition and other parenting information, like the dangers of lead paint, and the importance of child restraints, etc.
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This is a really important topic — money is so much than a number. I see this now with my friends who are fresh out of college (and saddled with student loans). Nobody wants to be the one to say “I can’t go out tonight (go to the movies, eat at that restaurant, pay for the next round, etc.) because I can’t afford it.”
Everyone is living on credit because they think that’s better than coming clean about their finances.
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My friends in grad school are willing to admit they can’t afford to go out a lot…we have a party at a home instead (usually mine, as we have a house). Bringing food is usually cheaper and more fun!
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It’s easier to say no when you are still in school. Then everyone expects you to be poor. It’s harder when you graduate and some land much better jobs. When you are in school you expect relative poverty to be temporary. You expect things to get better when you graduate. What happens when the job you land pays LESS than you earned as a grad student.
And while I love a good potluck party at home, what happens when you can’t even afford to bring food to a friend’s house because your income can only feed you! And it basically includes beans and rice and needed veggies.
Some people can’t afford to make nacho dip casseroles for friends to share! THAT is living in poverty and it is grinding to do it for many many years.
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Yup – and often even when you DO tell people, “sorry, I can’t afford it,” they say, “oh, no problem, I’ll lend you the money.” Or, “Oh, I’ll treat you.”
Do people not get how embarrassing that is??
1) borrowing $$ doesn’t make something any more affordable, and
2) no one wants to be a charity case.
I know everyone here knows this…. just had to have a rant!
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I really enjoyed this post. It’s well written and thoughtful. I’d add that the prospect of financial humiliation also keeps my people in unhappy marriages or living arrangements. The prospect of financial insecurity is very scary and it can keep people in situations that are at best unhappy and at worst abusive.
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I think the SNAP program needs an overhaul.
People who are in need of nutrition should not be able to buy junk food with those benefits. They should be limited to more healthy staples. If that would be too hard to restrict with the card then we should just start providing people with bulk bags of rice, beans, etc….
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Good luck trying to define what a “healty staple” is. There was recently an effort to exclude potatoes from SNAP out of obesity concerns that drew a lot of oposition.
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Back in the day, it was a big struggle to get rice added to our WIC program. Not because it isn’t healthy, but because of pure ethnocentrism – what, bread isn’t good enough for all these Asian immigrants?
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Back in the late-60s before food stamps people on welfare got “commodities”. I think they were things the government “bought” from farmer’s through some sort of farm subsidy program. (I was a child who ate the food, but never an adult that dealt with the program.) Some of it was good and healthy-ish (corn meal, flour, canned chicken, cheese). Some less tasty (powdered eggs and milk). Some was truly vile (canned meat of unknown origin that came out of the can in a single block. Even the dog next door wouldn’t eat it.)
Talk about stigma. First you had to haul it home on the bus. Then any casual look in your kitchen revealed the origin of your food. I hope we never revisit those days.
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You seem to be making an assumption that the folks receiving SNAP benefits have the same means to prepare food that you do. Years ago, I remember that a church group wanted to prepare food baskets for Thanksgiving, complete with turkey. They had to be reminded that many of the poor don’t have access to working ovens or pans to cook the turkey in, or a table to sit at… I believe they went with canned hams (the kind with turnkeys) instead.
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That is a good point – perhaps there are a lot that don’t have those means to cook from scratch, or have the time. Not looking to rehash that argument. HOWEVER, though I HATE having government intrusion in general, if folks are receiving money from the government for food, I think it is reasonable for policies to be put in place that things like soda and candy be disallowed. I don’t think crossing any of that stuff off the grocery list is going to cause harm. Sure, a mom or dad may have to say no to the kiddos when they want some of those treats, and it feels bad as a parent to not be able to provide them once in a while. But there has to be SOME line. We are told that we have an obesity epidemic in this country, especially among the poor – but soda and candy are allowed to be purchased? At least WIC has set guidelines regarding what you can and cannot buy. I wouldn’t go so far as to say I want the government put together a “healthy” all encompassing list. But I would like to see anyone’s list where candy and soda is considered healthy. I thin those are two safe areas that even those that need SNAP could understand.
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So. of course, since we need to draw SOME sort of line, who should draw that line? You? And certainly, “junk food” is verboten! So if the kids want a birthday party, they should have chosen their parent(s) better? And enjoy those rice cakes, kiddies! Maybe we can scrape up a little jelly.
I believe this goes back to the original thought about people deciding that they have the right to judge what people buy with SNAP money.
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I’ll admit I do struggle with the idea that junk food can be bought with WIC or SNAP but not disposable diapers and toilet paper, which I would consider to be higher levels of necessity.
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The corporations that make unhealthy food, snacks and sugary beverages will fight tooth and nail any attempt to limit government food assistance to healthy products.
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Why one size doesn’t fit all:
-Peanut butter for those with allergies
-High glycemic foods for diabetics
-Wheat and wheat products for celiac patients
-USDA beef for vegetarians
-Powder milk for the lactose intolerant
-Kosher Ham? Halal Ham?
-etc.
It’s better to educate people than to shove things down their throats. Could be a requirement for example that those getting SNAP benefits either pass a nutrition test or attend a class, just like for a driver’s license. That might actually be helpful.
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Great. More humiliation. Didn’t you read the article?
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How is a class on nutrition humiliating?
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why, they already do education:
http://snap.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=15&tax_level=1&tax_subject=243
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I think a more useful class would be how to shop. Use the sales circulars, buy on sale, plan your meals, how to compare prices from brand to brand, use of coupons, other frugal living tips.
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I think Sarah handled this topic with a lot of compassion. And I’m impressed by some of the comments too.
I remember having to deliver the startling news to someone who wanted a loan to repair her home that she was too poor to get one. She didn’t have the means to pay it back.
Fortunately, we had a grant that could help her but she felt embarrassed about taking the much-needed money. She didn’t see herself as a poor person although her income was barely above poverty level and making ends meet took careful management. And she was worried that someone else might be more deserving or need the money even more than she did.
I explained my philosophy that every time we help someone over a rough spot, we all benefit. If her house is repaired, it benefits her neighborhood, the tax base, and future buyers.
And in order to continue getting grant funds in the future, we have to prove to funders that we can get their money into the hands of people who need it as quickly and efficiently as possible.
This person has improved her financial situation since that conversation and now volunteers with our organization. Better yet, she shares with everyone she knows about how we were able to help her.
Many of our other clients feel too “humiliated” to share that they got help from a nonprofit. Their feelings of shame prevent them from sharing important information that could benefit someone else.
Humiliation over finances has some relation to the western culture of individualism. In communal cultures, the humiliation would probably come if a community allowed one of its members to struggle without providing aid.
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“my philosophy that every time we help someone over a rough spot, we all benefit. If her house is repaired, it benefits her neighborhood, the tax base, and future buyers.”
and don’t forget karma. everytime we help someone over a rough spot, some rough spot in our own future gets a guardian over it set up for us.
so judge at your own peril…literally.
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There’s an episode of “This American Life” where an immigrant tells the story of flagging down a policeman because a homeless person asked him for help. He (the immigrant) could not undertand how a person could not have anyplace to live, because in his country, a family would be ashamed to allow this to happen to one of its members.
In the U.S. we often take pride in not needing care from others, but the ugly flip side of that is feeling righteous about not *giving* care to others. I’m not saying all Americans are selfish – of course that’s not true. But I think it behooves us to understand *all* the effects our values can have.
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It wasn’t until I truly felt the shame of being constantly broke, having creditors calling, and almost having my house repossessed that I did anything about it. Today, I’m grateful that it happened and forced me to do a 180.
http://singlemomrichmom.com/how-to-get-out-of-debt-part-1-1-rock-bottom/
One of the things I did every day was to list what I was afraid of doing and forced myself to “eat that frog” first thing every morning. I can’t describe how freeing it was to finally address my problems rather than run away.
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My 16 year old is already a smart shopper that likes to buy clothes at the local Goodwills. She always looks great, and she gets some of the items for $1 at these stores. On one trip she and my wife practically got a new wardrobe for her for $50. She’s been brought up being taught the value of a buck.
One of our most important jobs as parents is to teach my son and daughter to avoid excessive debt to stave off any future “humiliation”. It’s a necessity.
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I think its good for people to feel humiliated when they have to go on public assistance. Not necessarily because they deserve to feel bad, but because it shows a healthy sense of self respect that some people on assistance just don’t have.
When you feel humiliated in this way it shows that you want to do better for yourself and you don’t want to be in that situation, so you are more likely to find a way to get out of that situation and never go back.
I teach people in my Celebrating Financial Freedom course that in order to succeed financially and keep yourself from ending up in a tough spot financially, you have to address it before it starts. You have to make a plan, get out of debt over time, build an emergency fund, and stick to your guns financially thereafter. But if you find yourself in a bad situation, its never too late to begin digging yourself out.
“When you help me with money, you help the world prosper.”- J.M. DuMont
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part of me wants to link to see exactly what kind of “doctor” you are that advocates humiliation–especially of worth– as an acceptable cattle prod to use on humans…and who would think such a pat answer would be a good advertisement for a financial seminar.
then the other part of me thinks “eh.” and decides not to link.
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“Dr.” Strangelove
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I agree with Dr. Cabler, and my kids are getting WIC. I don’t think people should try to humiliate others who have less than they do, but I think it is healthy for the “have less” people to want to do better. Humiliation and judgmental looks from others, whether real, imagined, well-meaning or otherwise, can be a powerful motivation. The humiliation we’ve been through will just make it sweeter when my husband gets a promotion (quite soon, we think!) and/or we pay off the debts we have.
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some people are always going to have more than others. why subject yourself to mental torture instead of learning contentment?
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Why should you be content to be on public assistance?
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Part of my job is to sit down face-to-face with people who have credit problems and help them figure out how to fix them so they can someday own their own home.
Although I’ve never tried humiliating anyone in my office, I can’t imagine how it would help me to motivate them to do the hard work it takes to fix credit and save money.
No matter how terrible a credit report looks, I try to find something the person is doing right and help them figure out how to bring that small discipline into another area of their life.
Just because television tells you humiliation helps people change their lives, those of us in the business of helping people change their lives know better.
Humiliating people is only good for ratings.
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A long time ago I left an abusive relationship with my toddler in tow and no job. I had to go on welfare, housing assistance, etc. Adding additional humiliation to what was already a humilating situation for me would have pushed me over the edge. Thankfully, most of the counselors didn’t follow your proposed policy. I believe that having to go on public assistance is already humilating enough for many if not most people.
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There is so much wrong here I don’t even know where to start. How about not everyone is on a level playing field and has the same opportunities to pick themselves up and get out of the situations they are in due to geography, education and ability? No one grew rich off public assistance as far as I know. Everyone just loves to receive government assistance, that’s why all of us are scrambling madly to get on it. If your intent was to inflame, well then, congratulations.
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Interesting article. One additional angle to consider is how financial difficulty can force an individual or a family to be creative about problem solving.
Jason at Frugal Dad recently wrote an interesting article titled: “10 Free Dates That Your Wife Will Love” that I love.
A few weekends a year I have “$20 weekends”. I make my way through the back corners of my food cabinets, wander through free museums, explore new sections of town with friends and watch old movies. It turns out to be a lot fun. It stretches my mind to explore activities that I often don’t explore. Last December I created a book for my younger sister full of pictures of her favorite photographer.
If your day to day life is under financial stress it may be more difficult to remain creative. I would imagine that the pressure also increases when you have a family. Even in these times however creative cheap activities can provide a meaningful emotional release from financial stress.
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Does that imply that a normal weekend for you costs more than $20?
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Thanks Steve. I have the expense patterns of a young professional single person. Over 85% of my costs come during Friday evening and Sunday. This is when I socialize with friends, see movies, eat out, etc.
You bring up a good point however that my spending patterns are not necessarily representative of other people. Some families may very well only spend $20 a weekend – although I would think most spend far north of that.
NYMag recently had great piece on the wealth gap in NY City. They compared two family’s spending habits. One from Manhattan and I believe the other was from Queens:
http://nymag.com/news/features/wealth-gap-2011-7/index4.html
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I think a big reason why people don’t sign up for food stamps and similar government assist programs is related to the process of getting approved. I’m sure it’s different in every town in the US, and some people are successful, however in a big city like New York, the process can be extremely frustrating and scary.
I’ve not signed up for it myself, but have heard friends describe their experiences of spending hours waiting in line in government offices to get approved (valuable time they would have spent looking for work) often with people who looked drugged up, sick or unable to speak English. In many cases, after the long wait, a rude unhappy clerk advises them that they’re missing a form or a piece of ID and makes them come back on another day just to go through the whole process again. In the end, some of them have been denied because they made $50 too much money the previous year or have some other odd thing wrong in their application. Many government assist programs are like this. A couple of friends of mine stopped trying to obtain disability benefits(one has type 1 diabetes and the other suffers from epilepsy, experiencing grand mal seizures about once a year – neither have health insurance) because of the arduous process they have to go through to get approved. “Humiliation” doesn’t quite cover how they feel.
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i have worked with people trying to get system help and have played with people on the other end, the gatekeepers of assistance application and approval.
it is common knowledge in the system that the humiliation, the constant trips, the lost IDs/paperwork, etc. is innate and built-in (or not corrected) specifically as a weeding tool. The going thought is that only those that “truly” are destitute will suffer the intelligently applied humiliation and that anyone who can really help themselves, will eventually give up and quit returning/applying (as in, your friends really didn’t need help because they wouldn’t run the gauntlet…yes, they call it the gauntlet.)
Note* gauntlet: (1) a former punishment, chiefly military, in which the offender was made to run between two rows of men who struck at him with switches or weapons as he passed.
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One of the two friends I mentioned is able to take care of herself, although she is an incredibly talented artist who doesn’t get paid very much even though she’s been very heavily published and hired. She tried real estate to make things financially easier, but found that things became financially harder. She’s stuck with her choice (and loves her choice regardless of the hardships), but is frustrated with how difficult it is to run that gauntlet. She probably fits into the group you’re referring to.
The other is not so lucky. She suffers from severe depression and low self esteem. She has not held jobs for very long because the stress either gives her a seizure or the medication she’s on makes her sick. She only sees her neurologist once a year and has stopped her medication. Her parents help a little, but not much. She very much needs the assistance (a little help would go a long way), but that gauntlet is not something she can deal with.
I also know of someone with severe bi-polar disorder who is on disability. She made it through the gauntlet. She was previously an attorney making 6 figures and her disability check tops $3000/month. She can work, just not as an attorney in a big firm. Think she’s looking for a new job? Nope.
So the gauntlet makes a lot of sense, but is not a perfect filter.
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intentionally inflicting pain on another human who is potentially in a hardship situation for whatever reason NEVER makes sense to me.
inflicting pain on some just in case ALL are not as they seem, NEVER makes sense to me.
justifying the infliction of pain on another human NEVER makes sense to me…
and yes, i’d rather subsidize 3 frauds in order to avoid inflicting pain on one genuine needy person.
but that’s just me.
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I read a story about how legalizing heroin in Sweden actually decreased heroin use (Malcolm Gladwell, perhaps?).
The addicts had to make an appointment and report to a government waiting room where they had to fill out all the forms and rigamarole to get their shot of heroin before they left.
Researchers have speculated that the dreariness of the process made heroin a lot less interesting to an addict.
Just imagine if you wade through the bureaucracy and all you get is free (bad) cheese at the end.
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I grew up poor, but on a farm. We didn’t have much in the way of clothing or possessions, but our food was fresh and organic — because we grew or butchered it ourselves. (I thought everyone had steak a lot!)
Husband grew up in a military family that was frugal because they had to be. His mom used to go down to the shrimp boats to buy their supper. (I only knew the heavy-coated shrimp ‘poppers’ from the freezer section, but we had all the fresh bass, sunfish and salmon we wanted, thanks to living not far from a lake, as well as Lake Michigan.)
So we started married life thinking pretty much the same way. Husband did insist that when we purchased used items (and we did so a lot), that they be high-quality, a good brand, etc.
That, I believe, is the key. Used goods and thrift stores are full of junk. If you take the time to research and look, though, there are gems hidden beneath the schlock. I’ve seen (and purchased) cashmere sweaters, a leather jacket with a huge fur collar (get tons of compliments on it), high-end pants, shirts, you name it…and for pennies on the dollar.
The sticking point has been our daughters. Daughter #1 hated that we were ‘poor’ (though most of her friends didn’t travel as much as we did, or had their house almost paid off). She eventually got herself into credit card trouble, and ended up going to Mom and Dad for help. A few years later, and she’s back in college, paying for herself and doing very well.
Her younger sister saw the thrill of the chase, and enjoyed going with me to discount outlets and thrift shops. She has an excellent eye for quality, and is willing to be patient. (In college, a roommate who thought nothing of jetting home weekends to L.A., kept borrowing her $10 thrift shop leather jacket, because it was ‘cool.’)
She’s done very well on a limited income, has graduated and is now starting to build up savings. (If only I could get her to see that an IRA at age 23 is a good thing, though!)
Even if we had a million dollars, I would still continue to look for things on sale and in the clearance aisle. I can buy far better items at the thrift shop than Wal-Mart IF I’M CAREFUL. That’s the point. It is a game — but one that can really pay off in savings and the freedom to go and do what you want — when you want to do it.
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Excellent post! Being poor/frugal does not necessarily mean shopping at Kmart. That just means buying poorly made items. I shop almost exclusively at thrift/consignment stores for my kids, and they were pretty much all name brands. I only buy items without tears, stains etc in good condition. No one would ever know where my kid’s stuff comes from, not even them because I shop by myself, I wash it, and it shows up in their dressers. I can guarantee those shopping at Kmart are paying more than I am and the stuff probably wears out twice as fast.
It really is the thrill of the chase, and the game of “how cheaply can I furnish ____?”
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I know all too well the shame and humiliation not having enough can do to a person. After all, *we* are responsible for our lives as adults. We are responsible for our budgets, our education, even our jobs (when you’re laid off, people automatically assume its your fault first). People also project their fears on to you and want to inadvertently blame you when you hit a patch of bad luck.
In terms of food stamps, I don’t as many people qualify as that stats suggest. I tried to apply several months ago and was turned down despite being on SSDI and paying almost $800/mo in medical expenses. They told me that my medical bills wasn’t high enough (!). I am young and childless so that may have been a factor. I guess I have to be living on the street before I could qualify.
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“on the streets to qualify…”
if then.
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Bummer about the food stamp process for you.
Have you tried area food pantries? Both for their free food, and because many food pantries (though not all) – especially ones that are part of a larger charity organization – have intake screening that may be able to help determine if you might qualify for food stamps after all, and if so may also be able to help you re-apply.
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I think it is harder to get those benefits than most people think, particularly if there are adults in the household. To give an example a household of 3 people, maybe have to make less than 22K to qualify. So you have 1 unemployed person, and two people each making 11K each, but together the household makes too much to qualify. Some of my family members do not have health insurance. There is a subsidized plan they found out about, but it is amazing the amount of paperwork needed to be able to qualify, and once you are qualified, you need to redo the paperwork, anew each year. Based on time elapsed and unavailability of appointments, when they did it and got approved, they would only have about 6 months of eligibility before it would expire. They did it a couple years but didn’t this year.
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Thanks not only for the thoughtful article, but the use and analysis of Koestenbaum’s “Humiliation.” I picked the book up a couple of weeks ago, and this post probably put it next on my to-read list.
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Absolutely fascinating topic! When I was in high school, in the 1980′s I worked in the grocery store and my parents were getting out of farming (we moved to town). Needless to say, we owned a ton of money, and had very little income. Working at the grocery store I saw those people come in with the food stamp coupon books and you wouldn’t believe the variety of folks who used them. From the lady in the fur coat with gold jewelry driving the Mercedes to the kid in my class whose father was a painter at the mental hospital. Seeing what I did, I have no qualms with using these benefits if one qualifies. I encouraged my parents to apply – they did and we didn’t qualify, however, we did qualify for reduced rate school lunches, for which I did submit the applications myself.
Last year, when I was working part time and my husband was laid off, I applied at our kids’ school here for reduced rate lunch sadly we didn’t qualify. I kept a record of the amount of money spent on school lunches (my kids LIKE those lunches and won’t eat what I send to school) and I spent over $1,200.00 for two kids for a whole year of lunches.
What is rather appalling is the fact that Universities are encouraging students to apply for the SNAP benefits and consider it to be part of their student benefits package. That was a rather odd twist. It kind of gripes a person when a single college students has a larger weekly allowance for food than my family of four with two working parents who operate on a budget. It does indicate that there are some wacky numbers games going on with the government (big surprise there…that was sarcasm).
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When I was in school the “poor” kids had yellow lunch tickets. It was terrible and humiliating for those kids so when I found myself single parenting and poor, I went at for years skipping meals for myself so that I could afford the regular lunch tickets for my daughter.
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Those financial aid people might get in trouble. Most students would NOT be eligible for snap because they are still dependents and part of a household whose income exceeds the limits. Only if the student is a declared independent would they be possibly eligible for food stamps.
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When I was a college student, I was not able to qualify for food stamps or assistance because of my full-time student status. My roommate and I were both scholarship students. We were car-less, television free, library-computer-using, book-borrowing, card carrying poor people. We washed our clothes in a bucket because so we didn’t have to waste money at the laundromat and when we did carry a full load of clothes several blocks to that gleaming beacon of modernity and convenience, we carried the sopping clothes home to hang them on the line to dry – a savings of 75 cents! We were the poorest people I knew. We lived in a cockroach infested bungalow with an antiquated heating system; at night, it was so cold you could see your breath! We each paid $215 per month for the privilege of living there.
What I remember the most about my first year of college was not extra curricular activities (no time! two jobs!), organizing protests for worthy causes (not unless there was free food!) or nights at the bar (beer costs money and always demands greasy late night meals to accompany it, absolutely out of the question!). What I remember about that first year was the constant hunger that came with my knew found freedom (and tuition and rent expenses).
I worked nights and weekends in restaurants so that I could bring home free food. My grocery budget was $18 a week and I stretched it as far as I could by baking, making giants vats of soup and freezing them, and buying bargain bin food (old bread, nearly expired refrigerated goods, etc). I even developed a policy of never turning down a date because it meant a free dinner – I sat through some pretty insufferable evenings.
My roommate and I both signed up for vaccine studies at our university for a few extra bucks – the main perk? After taking our blood the researcher’s would provide us with a little brown bag lunch of banana bread, a cup of yogurt, and an apple or banana (breakfast for the next three days!)
As much as we were able to keep our food costs down, there were still household items that couldn’t be avoided. I learned how to jimmy open the toilet paper dispenser with a bobby pin so that I could steal toilet paper which seemed prohibitively expensive to me at the time. I rationalized that my tuition paid for that toilet paper and I always taped a note to the stall door so no one was needlessly surprised and wanting.
Yes, it taught me a lot about budgeting, finding great free activities, and it made me pretty determined to never be that poor again. Would I do it again? Not if I could avoid it. By the time I had saved up enough money to fly home for the summer, I had lost almost 15 pounds and looked as if I had developed an eating disorder.
My point is, allowing needy college students to access assistance is a wonderful thing and shouldn’t be viewed as a slap in the face to families who are struggling. Now that I’m starting my own family, I don’t feel that I am more entitled to food, clothing, and shelter than I was when I was single and paying my way through school.
My college experience was not unique. I didn’t know anyone who wasn’t working one or more part-time jobs during my 6 years of schooling and I didn’t know anyone who wasn’t struggling to some extent. Yes, children are expensive, but so is funding a better future for your self and nobody deserves to go hungry.
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Shame is absolutely a big factor with money, but not as much as some would think. Unfortunately, my parents were (and still are) horrible with money. They never taught us kids about finances, went through bankruptcy while the three of us were still in high school, and still managed to rack up over $12k in credit cards years later.
I remember trying to speak with my dad about refinancing their home in ’06 when rates were low and using the equity to pay off all their debts; this was after I was already married with my 1st baby. I will never forget the anger and yelling he displayed towards me, although I only wanted the best for them. Thankfully my mom talked him into it, they paid off the credit cards, got squared away– and have once again racked up close to $8k in cc debt. I am so thankful to have married a thrifty husband whose mom is the complete financial opposite of my folks.
And guess what: because my hubby and I actually save $$ and are building an emergency fund (we are debt free, save for the mortgage!), our family members on both sides now view us as personal ATM machines, always asking to borrow money.
So sometimes shame and humiliation doesn’t necessarily work.
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Great post. It’s hard to navigate these issues with kids but the rewards for doing it are definitely there! We aren’t poor by any means but have gone through layoffs several times and have learned to set priorities for our money. This is the message we tried to give our kids when they’d come home from a friend’s house and ask why we didn’t have the big screen tv or fancy car. We would say that we had more important things to do with our money, like save it for their college educations. They grumbled about this plenty and it also became kind of a joke — “I know, I know, saving for college, blah blah blah!” But the payoff for us as parents came twice, once for each kid, when they each hit senior year of high school and had friends who found out at the last minute, when they were choosing which college to attend, that they didn’t really have a choice, that their parents had spent all (or more than all) of their money on the tv and the car, and they had to pick the college that was going to cost the least. On that day (and other days after that) both kids thanked us for giving them the opportunity to pursue their dreams. My point is that this isn’t a rich / poor issue — we all need to teach our kids that money is only a means to some ends and that STUFF does not equal STATUS!
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Regarding the part about a third of people who are eligible for food stamps not using them, I don’t think that’s exclusively because of humiliation. I don’t doubt that’s part of it, maybe even a big part, but I know we qualified at one point according to our income (and we qualified by a significant margin), but our situation was such that we didn’t have trouble paying for our food, so obviously we didn’t go sign up or anything. In our case, it was a situation of fairly low income for a couple years but with a good cushion of savings. There are probably people in a similar situation who technically qualify but don’t even know it.
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Well, no… it’s my understanding that if you have savings you’re not eligible for food stamps. You’re supposed to have depleted all other options before you actually qualify. It’s a last-straw resource.
Hm… google sez it varies from state to state, but there’s definitely an asset test:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/Projects/retirementsecurity/03_increasing_saving.pdf
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Yes, there must be some variation, because we were offered it by a social worker who ought to have known the system (and presumably did). It’s good to know that that’s something that’s taken into account in many cases though.
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This was a great piece. I think it is important to remember that everyone is different when it comes to self esteem and the opinions of others.
Both my husband and son have need for approval, to fit in, etc. My 11yo boy worries over his relative status all the time – are they richer than us? etc. It’s just who he is [his father doesn't ever give off these messages for him to learn - he's actually extremely successful - but the 11yo inside HIM still worries that he's not 'good enough']
My daughters are the opposite – and I don’t care about telling people that I can’t afford something [didn't when we were making little, don't when we now make much more]. To me it’s part of being financially responsible to teach the kids that spending less than what we have is a NECESSITY.
But I can understand that some people, like the author, are more sensitive about it. Kudos to her for making a commitment to herself and her kids to at least keep saying it and not pretend that it’s not true!
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Take past-due debt. Those who have suffered a financial setback major enough to start racking up late bills, and the phone calls that go along with them, are the best example of a group for which humiliation works against personal interest. Collections agents are counting on your humiliation and your fear of a poor credit score (which will engender even more humiliation) to convince you to pay your past-dues immediately.
Indeed. My father’s bills were a mess by the time he landed in the hospital. (Dementia does not help in managing finances.) He also doesn’t have a lot of money. I’ve had to set some hard priorities.
At present (thanks to the life insurance I hadn’t known he had and all his stocks and Medicare and Medicaid) the hospital and doctor’s co-pays are paid. Most of the nursing home bill is paid. Dad’s in a smaller, less costly home now. The mortgage is caught up, and there’s even homeowner’s coverage on the house, which is on the market at a price which’ll pay the mortgage, the back property taxes, and possibly even the rest of the nursing home bill.
What it won’t cover is a couple loans and a credit card he may not be able to pay. If he died right now, they flat wouldn’t get paid. He’s applying for Veteran’s benefits which could let him pay off his remaining bills over time, but that can be 12 months from a decision.
I have notified the bank of his situation, including that 100% of his current income is going to his care (room, board, assistance in daily living tasks) and doctor/prescription co-pays. But it’s not like a payment schedule can be negotiated at this point, because he doesn’t have anything to pay now.
What is helping? The bank in question does not appear to have my address or phone number. Despite presenting the power of attorney documents at the bank in person AND signing paperwork, they REFUSE to talk to me on the phone. They haven’t even updated Dad’s address despite my having sent it to them repeatedly.
Lack of nagging == less stress for me. Bank incompetence for the win?
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I’ll through school (from elementary to high school) I got reduced lunch. Cost was $.40 vs $2. I paid my $.40. The lunch lady checked my name against a list and I received lunch.
I never ate lunch during middle school or high school. Too humiliated.
Children shouldn’t be made to feel singled out like that.
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I don’t know how universal this is, but at our school all the kids have a lunch number. They memorize the number and give it to the lunch checkout person. Some of the numbers go to accounts that parents pay into electronically (about half), some go to accounts that are paid by the state for low-income families, or the county for fostercare and homeless kids. Nobody knows but an accountant in a back office somewhere.
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Reading this post makes me feel incredibly lucky. I endured a difficult divorce and was left in a rather impoverisfed situation. I was waist deep in debts but felt confident about negotiating with the various companies involved. Though I was advised to declare myself bankrupt; I decided against it and had lengthy communications with each of the companies. They all gave me fair payment terms and today I’m well on the way to solvency and feeling good about my life.
To echo the words of Barack Obama: “no where else in the world is my story possible” – my geographic location has been key to my financial survival. I live in England and as an immigrant, I’m proud to say that the UK Financial Regulatory Authorities are committed to helping people getting out of debt. The British are a decent and civilised people and in all my dealings with tax offices, utility providers, mortgage lenders I was treated with kindness and dignity.
This is the land of hope and glory!
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My husband grew up in Northern NJ and his family was middle class in an area where most parents worked high profile jobs in NYC (stock broker, atty, advertising, ect.) He still, to this day, talks about being dropped off at school in a beat up lincoln when the other kids were brought in chauffered luxury cars. (Don’t ask me why no one rode the bus?) He is so scarred by those memories. He grew up caring so much about what other kids and people thought of him it still bothers him tremendously today and it upsets me that those memeories are what he thinks of most when talking about his childhood. He is always so concerned about me having the best of everything, house, car, clothes, ect. (Which is how we got into the hole we were in, then I got actively involved in our financial life.) I have tried my best to tell him those sorts of things are not a priority to me. He is important to me, our marriage is important to me, our dogs are inmportant to me. I am slowly getting through to him, I think.
His mother constantly talks about how much money this person has, or how much something cost that so and so bought. As well as how much money her friends’ kids make. It’s ALL she talks about ALL the time. She is the one who has put so much focus on money and everything that goes with it, that I believe this is why my husband is self-conscience regarding money. If she is this how bad she is now, I can only imagine how she was when he was a child. It makes me sick thinking about it and I almost get sick when we have to visit her it upsets me that much.
Ok – I will stop ranting now. Maybe I am just a little too protective of my husband’s feelings.
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Contrary to the author’s thought I feel that many do not make use of SNAP programs because they are unaware that they qualify.
An example is my friend who 6 months into her pregnancy told me she was SICK of eating fish and her midwife didn’t really want her eating that much (because of the thought that more than trace amounts of bad minerals -?- might affect the baby-like mercury) and I said if you really can’t afford food maybe you qualify for food stamps. SHE DID!
So, maybe it’s because there’s a stigma associated with food stamps but maybe it’s the stigma that you have to be REALLY, REALLY poor to qualify, when you don’t. You can still have jobs, mortgages, etc…
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Managing your finances is a chore just like anything else that keeps you healthy. Imagine the shame that would result if you never brushed your teeth, washed your clothes or did the dishes.
I’m not equating people with bad money management skills to slobs. I’m more trying to illustrate how essential it is to understand how to manage money and what the consequences are when you don’t.
We teach children to brush their teeth as soon as they have teeth. But many people are never taught healthy habits for managing their finances. Unfortunately, these people (myself included) often end up eventually learning on their own, much later in life and after years of humiliation and hardship.
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I agree there is a lot of emotion around financial decisions. We are in the process of downsizing to a smaller and much lower priced house. In our current situation, we are actually able to pay all of our bills and save a little. However, we came to the conclusion that we were strapped when it comes to paying for the things we really enjoy and we want to be able to comfortably save more.
I think when it comes to other decisions of spending, the magic phrase,”not in my budget at this time” is golden. I show my kids how much money is in their allowance. If they really want said item, they have to pay for it out of their own money. If they don’t have enough and they have to decide whether they want to wait till allowance accrues of work for mom for the extra $. The hardest part is keeping my mouth shut when I think their purchase is a waste of their money. Sometimes the thing they worked/waited so much to get wasn’t really worth it and sometimes it is. But the experience definitely colors their next purchase decision and they are starting to think about value with bit more depth
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I was lucky, my parents were very poor when I was young, but my father always said that money is “S&*t”. As I grew up always took that mantra, I am a saver now and have a healthy bank account, but nothing gave me more freedom then taking a handful of change and throwing it away. I know I will get angry dislikes for that. But YOU control your money, it does not control you. So give it a try take a dollar or so of change and just throw it away, don’t give to charity just waste it. Then you know you are free!
-Giskard
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To have things as dire as they are right now is fortunately temporary. But just last night I went through grocery checkout with basket of generic ramen and generic mac and cheese and I was pretty embarassed. I did the only thing I could do to deal with my shame: greeted the cashier warmly, looked her in the eye, said please and thank you, wished her the same good evening she wished me and smiled at the gentleman behind me in line. I may be broke but at least I have good manners.
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