Sometimes you do everything right — you work hard, you cut back on spending, you invest for retirement — but all of your effort seems for nought. You get sick. You wreck your car. Or, as has been the case for the past several years, the entire global economy seems determined to thwart your long-term plans.
What happens when you do all the right things, but the right things don’t seem to work? That’s what Michael wants to know. He writes:
I’m on solid financial footing with a sizable emergency fund, low debt, and bright career prospects. So this isn’t a question of the “Oh crap, I got myself into another hole, how do I get out?” variety. It’s more along the lines of “Okay, now what?”
Over the last year, I’ve watched the APY on my high-interest savings account continually tick down (from a high of 1.2% a year ago to a piddly 0.89% this morning), and the rate of return on my Vanguard investment account fall into the negatives (but not enough that any one of the funds is at a bargain price to capitalize on). Basically, inflation is kicking my butt and it’s hard to motivate myself to grow any of those accounts substantially. The only thing that keeps me putting money into my savings account is the goal of owning a home in the next 2-5 years. Even that’s more mechanical at this point than something I can get excited about when looking at account balances.
How do I keep myself motivated to keep investing/saving when the rate of return is so low? Seeing my accounts drop in value is incredibly disheartening and makes me wonder if there’s some better way to allocate my money over the short term.
Michael is right that savings rates are low. (Don’t believe me? Look at the GRS savings account page. Rates are piddly!) For the past four years, U.S. monetary policy has been designed to encourage citizens to pump money into the struggling economy.
It’s tough to know what to say about the negative returns on Michael’s investment account. I’m not sure what time period he’s looking at, and I’m not sure what he holds in the account. But while the market has been sluggish over the past few months, it’s actually been growing at a steady clip for the past three years. Michael’s negative returns are likely either short-term or an anomaly based on his asset allocation.
The one-year rate of return on my investment accounts is 6.29%. The three-year average annual return is 12.81%. It’s true that the crash of 2008 is going to mean that long-term returns look low (the S&P 500′s ten-year average annual return is only 3.69% as of today), but I still believe that in years to come, stocks will outperform most other investments.
Despite the sputtering economy, I’m continuing to save and invest. Even if the returns are low, they’re better than the 0% return if I put the money in cash. And I’m not inclined to just go spend the money on Stuff I do not need.
For short-term goals, I’m not convinced there are better options than using a savings account. (Or a certificate of deposit or similar tool.)
And, as I mentioned above, I’m happy to continue investing in the stock market. Whenever the market spooks me, I try to remember Warren Buffett’s 1997 comparison of stocks to hamburgers: “Only those who will be sellers of equities in the near future should be happy at seeing stocks rise. Prospective purchasers should much prefer sinking prices.” If you’re young and investing for the future, you want low prices.
But all of this is academic. Michael’s not asking a math question. He’s asking a psychology question. As I often say, money is more about mind than it is about math. That’s true here, just as with other areas of personal finance. Michael wants to know how to stay focused on the long-term when the short-term looks so bleak.
Have you struggled with a similar dilemma? What’s your reaction to low interest rates and a sluggish stock market? Have you given up on saving? Have you increased how much you’re investing? How do you stay motivated to save when savings seems counter-productive?
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I think Michael’s already onto the answer. He states, “Even that’s more mechanical at this point than something I can get excited about when looking at account balances.”
Automating your saving, because you know it’s the best long term thing to do, is a great way to fight off the demons telling you to following the latest investing fad.
I’d add that I’m not so sure finance should be exciting. If it’s exciting, you’re likely making decisions based on emotion. For that reason, I’d argue that Michael may be making life more difficult for himself by paying too much attention to what’s happening in his finances. We tend to feel the sting of losses much more significantly than we do the glory of our gains. It’s better not to look too often and make adjustments every 6-12 months or so instead of making changes in reaction to market or economic conditions.
Bottom line: Michael is doing the right things already. He’s controlling what he can. Beyond that, you have to let it go. Which, admittedly, is easier said than done.
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I agree about the auto-pilot. I employ the same method I did to my fancy free spending ways; The Bird in the Sand Scenario. You know how you just kept spending despite all the evidence to the contrary that, hey, you should probably stop? Switch that. Do it with your savings.
Doom and gloom and weak stock markets. La La La. I can’t hear you. I’m too busy mindlessly saving my money.
I know this is better than the alternative, regardless. So, stick your fingers in your ears, and keep passing open windows.
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He could be talking about his YTD returns in the stock market. I think maybe he could look into something like Prosper or other “alternative” investments. Not long ago there was a guest post about researching and getting into non-standard investments. Why not check out Prosper or other micro-lending sites?
I would also suggest he start looking more into his housing options, since he mentioned saving for a down payment. How educated is he on how much closing will cost, the difference in interest rate and payments if he puts down 10% vs 20%, where he wants to live and what’s happening to prices, and so on. At least it’ll provide a distraction to his piddling interest rates, and it might give him a clearer picture of what he should be working towards.
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Michael mentioned his Vanguard investments, I have been using the Vanguard bond index funds for my down payment savings. They have very little volatility and are very safe. I just withdrew about $20,000 for a down payment and I had made over $1400 in about two years. I’m not trying to brag, I just think it works very well as a quasi-savings account and I wish I had gotten the idea earlier.
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I wouldn’t recommend that because bond prices can and likely will drop. If interest rates rise, which they evetually will, low interest rate bond prices will drop like lead weights.
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The Fed has guaranteed near zero rates for a while, so interest rates will stay low now. Even if they do rise quickly, if you stick with shorter term bonds you still come out ahead of savings accounts. There is risk involved, but I see the risk as pretty minimal.
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Even without the interest, isn’t this make you happy Michael that your principle is growing every pay check? I would suggest giving yourself a reward regularly, like spending on self improvements etc, and save the rest. Rising principle and regular rewards should keep you on track of saving for your upcoming home buying.
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I agree with SB, I also look at my increasing principle with each paycheck and congratulate myself with that. I know interest rates are not very good currently, but still my savings account grows with 200-500 euros a month, so it’s getting somewhere!
If you are hoping to have a downpayment for a house in 2-5 years, you could track your progress on a chart. I’m not sure how much you want to have, but each month you’ll get closer, if you put some money aside in a savings account.
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I do the same thing with my daughter’s college fund. Even when the numbers on the statement do down – I remind myself that overall I’ve still made money for her future.
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I deal with this with automation. My savings and investments every month are automated – all I have to do to ‘stay motivated’ is do nothing, i.e. don’t cancel the payments.
My other thing at the moment is mortgage overpayments – I stay motivated on this simply by plotting my mortgage balance once a month. I like seeing it fall.
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early in a mortgage, figuring out the future value of that overpayment (using the set interest rate on your mortgage) is SO REWARDING. The first year of our mortgage is was something like every $1 we overpaid saved us $7 over time.
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In many parts of the country you can purchase a house for a small percentage of what it once cost. Right now, I am looking at purchasing a house in my neighborhood for $60,000. In 2008, it was worth $200,000.
If you have cash, you can purchase a property, rent it out, and generate a good monthly income stream. In a couple of years, when the economy turns around, you can sell for a hefty profit.
Opportunities abound today in real estate.
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Hmmm… that assumes alot in this world economy. I think it’d still be safe to say, though, that even if you couldn’t sell that rental property ‘at a hefty profit’, there’s alot to be said for that income stream!
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Michael is doing the right things but there is nothing to say he can’t broaden his education and learn about additional vehicles to build wealth and create income.
Cash flow is really the life blood of an asset – it’s great to know that your house is worth X but if you don’t intend to sell it’s tough to access that equity. Same with a stock account. You can’t realize the profit without selling.
Real estate has the capacity to generate on-going income, provide tax breaks and build equity. Unlike the ‘fly-by-nighters’ who got severely burned in recent years there are many investors calmly riding out the wave because they planned and prepared. Much risk can be mitigated with good cash flow management.
There are so many alternatives to the stock market – it pays to know what else is out there!
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I’m finding it hard to stay motivated to save this time of year. The message in the media is buy, buy, buy — and the sales are really tempting.
One of the best things I did recently was go talk to an advisor about mortgages, even though I’m not quite ready to buy. That really motivated me because I can see how much I’ll save in interest and other costs (like mortgage insurance) the more I can save towards the downpayment. It made my goal of buying a condo much more tangible.
I also agree on allowing yourself the occasional reward
Saving for a home is a big goal and the reward is so far off. I have a separate “fun money” account that isn’t part of my net worth for little rewards.
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I know what you mean about the “Buy, Buy, Buy” pressure. I handle that by not looking at the sales flyers, not watching TV (or only watching things that I’ve DVRd so I can skip the commercials), and not shopping. It’s a lot easier to resist temptation that isn’t there.
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Just think about what you would do if you buy things. Use the other things less, you have to carry them into your new house…
You could also invest in yourself (learn something. Most you can get for free (and if you try that you get better at getting things for free
) and the rest you can buy – but working to improve yourself also takes your “think bad about saving” time away.
Or you can invest in others. Work charity. Do something for your neighbors. Whatever. This can also bring in monetary profits in the end, but definitely in feelings.
The real problem is not “why should I save”, but “why do I have time making bad thoughts about saving?”. I would have no problem filling 40 hours a day…
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As a “young-ish” (I’m 34) investor/saver there have certainly been times I’ve felt like Michael. It can definitely be discouraging to see one’s return on investments so paltry (even negative at times). I constantly try to remind myself that investing is a marathon, not a sprint. And that I feel fortunate to have a stable job and minimal debt. Markets rise and fall, ebb and flow. Today’s bear market becomes tomorrow’s bull. To quote Jack Bogle on investing, “Stay the course!”
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As a matter of pure arithmetic, low rates of return require us to save even more.
As to keeping motivated, it helps tremendously to keep your eye on the prize, which for me is financial freedom. When I compare the value of some new purchase against the damage that purchase does to my ability to retire, I usually find my desire to spend evaporates quickly.
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I’m with Brian, the low rates of return motivate me to save even more as I will have to save more, and rely less on compounding, to reach my goals. I agree, the stock market has been very depressing. We have a larger emergency fund now, because of all the uncertainty in the market (which is part of why interest rates and return expectations are so low) but all our long term savings still goes into the market.
How about setting some goals? Does buying a house with cash motivate you at all? Concrete goals always motivate me and this is a goal I’m considering implementing for our next home purchase. Maybe setting an aggressive target for how much you want to have saved for your home purchase in 2-5 years would motivate you to save more.
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It strikes me that the big thing that’s missing from your statement is what your goals are. You mention wanting to buy a house in 2-5 years, but it isn’t clear that you’ve thought about why. Do you want to own a house just because it’s what most grown-ups do? If so, it’s probably not the sort of goal that is going to motivate you. Is the house part of an overall financial plan that will allow you to retire early, or build a family? I think that the key to staying motivated is to be aware of what you want to accomplish with that money, and remind yourself of it consistently. If it’s really a house, maybe keep an eye on real estate listings for the areas you’re interested in; if it is actually early retirement or something similar, try to find images or blogs or something that remind you of what you’re aiming for. I struggle with this too–good luck!
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Completely agree on your future-oriented outlook on equities outperforming everything else. The panic so many investors have showed over the last 3-5 years is exactly why the average people make on their investments is so much lower than the average of what the market returns over time. I myself am looking to buy up some shares in BRK hoping that the good ole Oracle of Omaha is the man to navigate the tail winds that should be coming after all of this de-leveraging in the next 2 years.
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“Stuff” shouldn’t be capitalized in this context. In this context it is about spending on wants vs. savings. (And maybe even redefining what you see as a need.) I don’t care what anyone says about how experiences are better than things. That might all be true. But at the end of the day he wanted a way to be motivated to SAVE, not spend on those conscious spending wants. It’s about forgoing wants, like travel, to achieve a longer term goal like a house. (And how best to achieve that goal.)
One can demonize the spending on material goods, but if a person who spends 3K new clothes or electronics and a person spending 3K on a vacation are in the same situation for the purpose of this article. They cannot put that 3K in their savings/retirement funds.
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“Stuff” should never be capitalized, unless it is the opening word of a sentence. This is an incredibly annoying affectation in an otherwise excellent website.
Nouns are routinely capitalized in German, but it is really bad form to do so in English.
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I completely agree. I find the use of “Stuff” to be obnoxious and wish it would be retired.
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If it’s good enough for the Germans, it should be good enough for us
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Maybe if Experiences starts to be capitalized in the same way Stuff is, I can put up with it. But I, too, get annoyed by the whole “fill your life with Experiences because they are superior to Stuff” mantra. I have some Stuff i really, really like. I’ve had plenty of Experiences that turned out to be quite underwhelming. And vice versa.
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I totally know what he is saying. Low interest rates means I don’t get excitied for having a good emergency fund, low returns on my Roth IRA means it barely looks like I am contributing anything at all, and with all debts paid off less the morgage, the only goal I may get excited about is paying off the house. But thats $100,000 away, and since it seems like such a distant goal, I don’t get motivated for that either. Plus its low-interest rate.
It seems very hard to get excited during this recession when everything seems to be at a standstill and the rewards for being financially stable are not what I expected. So really I don’t have much advise rather than a shared experience. I try to stay motivated by trying to max my roths and seeing my principal on my morgage go up ever so slighty every month.
But alas, once the low hanging fruit is gone, it takes long term commitment to reach the high fruit.
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I agree. I have three things I want to do financially, 1) save automatically for retirement (doing for years), 2) save an additional amount for efund by transferring 10% after tax money into high yield savings (started this year). We then talked about either trying to do mortgage prepayments or save monthly for children’s college. But those are so big and far away instead I spent this month buying presents (and it felt good). Maybe in 2012 I’ll get it all together.
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I have no choice but to save since I’ve been laid off. It would be nice to at least be earning a decent interest rate on my savings since I have no other income. I lived like a pauper and saved when times were good, so I’d have something to fall back on if times got bad. Now times are bad and I’m still living like a pauper. I could use a break and I’m sure a lot of other people feel the same.
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You darn right we can use a break. Oh well – keep on keeping on and time to take inventory of how lucky we are with health, etc.
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I’m sorry to hear you’re unemployed. I hope you get something good soon. You should be really proud of yourself that you’re able to support yourself on your savings, and that you had the forethought to put off your “wants” so that now, when you have “needs,” you can pay for them. Best of luck!
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Thanks for your kind words. Honestly, I haven’t been looking for work as hard as I could. When you’re able to live on so little money, it’s hard to find motivation. Call it a downside of frugality, I guess.
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@ vanessa: big, poverty-sister hugs.
i did exceedingly well at my career until the recession hit, and i tucked away some cash but i’m burning right through it, and have been working tirelessly to get more work to replenish the reserves, but everything seems to be working against me. can’t get a job, bills piling up, no end to this recession in sight. it’s difficult to save money when you’re not even bringing it in. at this point, i could literally make more money busking on the subway than trying to get work in the field i hold a degree in, and have previously excelled in. ugh! it just sucks. sitting around dreaming of little ways to make money- or deal with christmas season with “must-have-nice-gifts” relatives, while my stomach is growling and my bank account is running on empty- this is no fun at all.
sorry to be so incredibly negative. i just got a traffic ticket today that wiped out the last money i had saved for christmas presents. hand-written greeting cards for all.
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Hugs back at ya. I had a traffic ticket years ago when I was even more broke than I am now. $67 and it was a first offense. I had to go into my penny jar to scrape up the money. I cried after the officer left.
If busking brings in more money, there’s no shame in doing it. And don’t worry about christmas gifts. Whatever you give, as long as it’s given genuinely and with love, should be enough. And if it’s not, then they’re off your gift list next year!
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In many states you can fight traffic tickets. I have fought them successfully in California and Colorado. Most people just pay them because they don’t have the time to deal with them. You have time and no money, so it might be worth researching how you can fight it.
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JD, where do you have your 401k invested? I have done all the “right” things, invested in index funds and allocated based on my age (which is close to yours) and risk tolerance. My average rate of return for this year is 0.2%. Which means I’m losing money, since I pay more than that in fees.
I’m about ready to pitch it all in, quit my job, liquidate my assets and buy a ticket on a ’round the world cruise while my money is still worth something.
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I posted my numbers below, very similar to yours!!!
Clearly JD is a better investor than we are. Although I am just following the gurus and putting it into low cost low MER mutual funds that are as close to index matching / passive as I can find with a mix appropriate for my age between bonds and stocks. *sigh*
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Yeah I looked mine up and it’s 2.91% this year (at least it wasn’t negative which is was at one point). Maybe I need to look up JD’s allocation mix!
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Folks, let’s be sure we’re comparing apples-to-apples. I posted my one-year return, not my YTD return. Looking at my YTD return (as I did just now for the first time), it’s -2.21% so y’all are beating me there.
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At the end of 2007, just about when we finished paying off all our unsecured debt, our net worth was $940,000. At the end of 2011, our net worth is about $985,000. During this time period, 2008-present, we have not incurred any debt, we’ve been paying down our secured debt, mortgage debt, we refinanced to lower interest rate, two of our mortgages, we’ve been saving a lot, maxing out our 401k and IRA, and saving other monies. You can see our networth numbers on my blog which has a link to networth iq.
So, while our net worth has gone up it does not reflect all our hard work. The 2008-2009 recession was brutal on our investments but we also did a lot of bargain buying, it is of course better to buy low, and those investment have done well. The real estate market, where we have our primary home and three investment properties tanked so those properties are not worth what they used to be worth.
But, if we had not been saving and investing over these years we would be worse off and paid more in taxes (since much of our retirement savings is tax advantaged).
How do we stay motivated, we set up annual savings goal and I track those goals on a chart twice a month. Tracking my goals helps me to stay committed, watching the numbers creep up is like getting a gold star for me and I respond well to it. We also save for short term goals, and saving for a new couch or vacation brings me happiness.
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If I save $10,000 dollars and inflation eats that to $9800, I just figure I’m still better off than if I spent $10,000 over a year on BS that didn’t get me anything of real personal value or help me towards my goals.
I also tend to look back five or ten years and ask if I’m better off (financially in this case). If I am, great. If not, why not and what to adjust. That’s kept me motivated because while I see dips and valleys from year to year, the general trend for me has been growth.
I feel the problem is that Michael has no real goals for the money. It doesn’t sound like it’s for retirement, or a college fund, or that he’s even really commited to a house purchase. In the end he has to figure out what the money is for.
My single recommendation for Michael is that he not cave into society, marketing, friends, family, girl friend, etc. who are all quietly or not so quietly whispering in his ear that he should be spending the money on something for their reasons, not his. Having a nice buffer in the bank, even if you don’t have a specific goal while you’re saving it other than you don’t see a real need to spend it uselessly, can open opportunities down the road that you can’t see right now.
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I would suggest that Michael go back five years and compare his net worth then with his net worth now. Since he was not in the real estate market, he may be pleasantly surprised and find that his net worth has grown in spite of the recession (depending on his savings rate over time).
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I second Emily’s advice above about Michael asking himself if buying a house is what he really wants. If not, maybe that’s part of the struggle to stay motivated.
I’d also like to encourage folks to investigate Individual Development Accounts. These are matched savings programs to help people with modest incomes develop assets. Most programs will match your savings (I’ve seen 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 matches) if you put it toward buying a home, returning to school, or starting a business.
Here in New York state, the Federal Home Loan Bank of NY offers a First Home Club where if you save $1875, they’ll match it with $7500 to put toward a house down payment.
These programs do have income limits that vary by county and state. In my county, a couple can’t earn more than $57,000 a year to take advantage of the First Home Club.
But if you think it’s demoralizing to save for a house when you’re an engineer or an accountant, just imagine how tough it feels if you work for a nonprofit or are a nurse’s aide.
Here’s a description of IDAs from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Development_Account. I’ve helped many clients take advantage of them and believe me, they’re very motivating.
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I had my emergency fund in an online savings account and found the dropping interest rate depressing, too. I decided to open a set of Ally 5-year CDs with my emergency fund. The rate is double the online savings account and the fee for breaking the CD early is only 60 days interest, so it only took a couple months to make the switch profitable. I kept a portion of my emergency fund liquid and I put the CDs in small increments so that if an emergency does arise, I can get just the amount I need.
It’s silly, but having this money earning 2.5% when I know it would be earning .89% otherwise, keeps me motivated. It makes me feel clever and makes my emergency fund keep growing. It reminds me that if I keep on the savings path, I can seize opportunities like this as they arise. It may not do the same for you, but it’s been a powerful motivator for me.
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Honestly, DH and I are fed up with stock market. Since we have plenty in investments already to cushion us after age 60, we are choosing instead to sock away money into savings accounts/money markets.
And make a living with our passions.
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Eesh. Must be nice to have access to good Vanguard funds.
My current rate of return, in the closest thing to an “index fund” that my Canadian company offers with 80% going to Canadian and US equity funds and 20% going into a bond type “income fund” is:
Rates of Return Summary
3 Month YTD 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 5 Year
0.3% -5.3% -2.1% -0.6%
As of this morning. The indexes are pretty similar to this, they are still down even after the rally earlier this week. This is by investing everytime I get paid into the same thing, following the same methods. Returns suck.
Here’s a chart:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/markets/indexes/summary/?q=TSX-I
My All USA stock fund is doing better:
3 Month YTD 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 5 Year Since Oct 2009*
6.7% 2.3% 5.4%
but no where near 12% returns.
And my ING accounts are at 1.5% savings. I have TD eFunds which are similar to Vanguard (well as close as we can get) but putting it into a Canadian Couch Potato my returns are pretty awful this year (after being up huge in May).
This post speaks to me, as I am not spending that much (my spending has dropped hugely) and my savings are way up but it is hard to stay motivated. There are a ton of things I want to buy, but my house downpayment can never be big enough. I’m going to get close to $100k down this year but in Toronto, that’s only a 20% downpayment. As my (great) job is here and I hate commuting with all my heart, I’m stuck here.
I wanna start spending on those $5000 vacations and $7500 pieces of fine art. The rates of return I’m getting sure don’t encourage me to continue saving.
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It is not great when I look at the monthly rrsp roundup, and I’m down ~100 when I know we put a fair chunk in. But vs. Jan 1 2011 we’re doing pretty good. Granted, that is almost all hard contributions, not real growth. But that is why contributions are automated.
The thing that keeps me motivated right now is to get the mortgage down. It was really cool when we hit the point (two month ago) that we had more in various retirement & emergency accounts than is left to pay off on our mortgage.
It’s motivating because once we pay off the mortgage, we can start saving to reno the kitchen and bathroom.
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I’m in almost exactly the same boat as Michael, good situation, saving steadily towards a deposit for my first home but still feeling like it is some way off. Plus at Christmas time, all the Stuff in the shops becomes Shiny Stuff which can seem more desirable!
The link someone sent me today has cheered me up though. http://www.greenpastureshousing.co.uk/ is a UK not for profit. I can buy a loan stock for £1000, pick a 1-10 year tenure and choose my own rate of between 0-5%. I’m planning to take some of my cash out of its current 1% home and put it to good use in a different 1% location. Ethical funds is another idea to gain momentum again as the money can influence something you care about, even if in the short term it can’t get you on the property ladder.
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I was in a similar position to Michael. I thought I should be buying a house, but I realized that I didn’t know if I wanted to buy one or not. So I set a high goal ($100,000) for a down payment and then started plugging along. I took money out of my down payment fund to pay cash for a car last year.
I’ve realized that I could quite happily stay in my apartment for the next 5-7 years, so I’m now planning to buy a condo or a small townhouse, depending on what I can find.
So what I can suggest is evaluating whether or not you really want to buy. If you were financially able to buy a place right now, would you? If so, what would you want to buy: 1 bedroom condo, 2 bedroom condo, 2 bedroom townhouse, 3 bedroom townhouse, 5 bedroom house? Keep re-evaluating this question each year. Where would you want to buy a place? How far out of the city would you be willing to move? This will greatly affect how much you can spend on a place.
Do you want to travel more? When you’re financially secure, everything is about prioritization. If buying a place is less important to you than traveling, then spend more money on traveling and less towards a down payment.
Try not to look at the negative returns on your investments, especially since it’s making you feel like you’re doing something wrong.
Instead of looking at the balances, look at the amount you are saving/investing each month and throughout the year. I am maxing out my 401(k) and sure there are losses, but with the huge amount going into it each month, I’ve still been net positive on the account almost every month this year. Looking at the YTD balance graph is way more inspiring than looking at the investment returns graph! It shows me that sure, my investments have lost some value, but I’ve still invested so much that my balance has grown significantly in size, which is amazing.
Good luck! Keep at it – your saving will pay off eventually.
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My investments aren’t doing all that well this year. The 401k is still down close to 10%. I keep motivated by looking at the net worth instead. As long as the net worth trends in the right direction, I’m pretty happy.
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I think the best way to stay motivated is to set a goal. Even if the interest isn’t much, having the satisfaction that you are getting closer to a vacation, paying off your mortgage, buying a vacation home, etc, can be enough to keep you going. I like visualizing how many months/years I am from the goal. For each $10 I save, I visualize getting one week closer to my ultimate goal.
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I’m curious, what is the problem with saving for saving’s sake? Goals are all well and good, but the idea that all money must be headed somewhere planned seems problematic to me. I’ve saved money sometimes with specific goals in mind but more often because I didn’t have anything particular that I (not others) wanted to do with it. Just because you have money available doesn’t mean it needs to be spent.
Maybe Michael wants to buy a house, maybe that’s really someone else’s idea and he has been convinced that it’s something he should be doing. But either way, having money saved surely gives more future options, and if there’s nothing in the present he wants to use it for, saving seems like the best choice. Losing a bit of money to inflation is still better than losing larger sums to things that don’t really interest him.
If what interests him is growing his money beyond just what he can sock away, he should consider doing some reading on various options for investing outside of retirement accounts. That ought to provide him with something to do for quite a while. If nothing else he’ll have a chance to learn how interest rates and investments and the larger economy and political system all interact, even if he decides that bank savings accounts are the best option for his circumstances.
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Time = Money
When Money > Than knowing what to do with it
Then that means Time > Than knowing what to do with it, and thats tough to swallow because we all love our time and its our greatest capital of all!
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It matters if it matters to Michael.
Some people just like having money, they want that bank balance to grow and grow and grow. Some people find having more than a certain amount is actually demotivating – I hit my emergency fund savings goal and it’s like, okay, why work a job? Why not quit and go work on an organic farm for a few months? It’s not like I need more money.
Lots of people want to have money but not as much as they like spending it, so they need a distant spending goal to weigh against the near-term spending wants.
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I would compare the funds that I have choosen to similar funds from other companies to get an idea of how they are doing in comparison to the others. If they are gaining similar results I wouldn’t be to worried. If they are doing worse I would start looking at other investment options or funds.
I would also look where the fund is investing money as some markets are doing really bad now. Maybe you should allocate your resources to funds that invest in other areas. Or spread the investments to many different countries or sectors.
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I’ve found that looking at my long-term investments more than twice a year just increases whatever money anxiety I’m feeling. It certainly doesn’t help me stay motivated.
The long term is just that: 10-15 years, minimum. If I worry too much about that stuff now, I’m likely to waste money by making impulsive trades trying to earn more.
I am still in the debt-repayment stage, so the best ROI I can possibly get is to continue paying down the balances. In this stage, the best motivator is watching those balances go down and, one by one, disappear.
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Keep in mind we don’t HAVE to be excited about saving money. It’s generally not very sexy and since the savings process is “mechanical” at this point, let it stay that way and find something else to get excited about. The best way I’ve found to minimize the nagging doubts about seeing my retirement funds teeter totter is to remember that with every dip, I’m buying at lower prices. Until we take that money out, the losses and gains are only theoretical, so put them on your mental backburner and dive into something else that can light your fire.
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You have to focus on the long term when it comes to savings. In the short run, the market will go up and down. Over a 40 year period, it has averaged 8-10% return.
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In 2011, my husband and I bought a house, put a roof on it, watched it burn after a lightning strike, and rebuilt while living in a rental. In the meantime, my husband lost his job and had to take a substantial pay cut when he re-entered the job market.
If we had not had a substantial savings plan and emergency fund, any one of these things may have spelled disaster for us. More than anything, the fear of being caught flat-footed in an emergency keeps me motivated to save.
A low return on investment is still a return, and still beats putting your money in a mattress.
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Hi JD,
I have a question for you and was hoping that I could receive a comment from both you and Kris.
The question is, how did you two make your marriage work when you (JD) were not as financially responsible as you are now? I ask this because I come from a very frugal family and my husband does not. Two years after trying to teach him the basics about budgeting, etc.
He believes that debt is just a part of every day life. I do not believe this. We have separate accounts but I start to think long term like buying a house together or retirement and wonder how this marriage will work.
Any recommendation/insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Bree
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I completely understand where Michael is coming from. I feel like our assets have done nothing but sit for years now. Yet the way that I stay motivated is to remember that I do have the right allocation, and that I invest on a regular basis. This over time will produce great results.
I also personally have to remind myself that we took a hit on 2 houses in this market, and paid for it in cash because of our emergency fund, so even though we have not made tons of progress, we are ahead when we look at all the factors.
I don’t think for short term savings there is an answer, it is just depressing. Yet the key word I focus on is short term. I don’t want to risk the money for a bigger return because I need it soon.
Remember your time frame and make sure you are invested with the right allocations and the rest will follow.
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Squirrelers had a great post on this topic the other day: http://squirrelers.com/2011/11/27/financial-motivation-what-really-drives-you-to-save/
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Michael is a kindred spirit. I used to be somewhat care-free with my money but also debt-free. I used to have fun. I too am saving for a downpayment on a home and altho I make a little headway each month and housing prices are sickeningly low, I still have YEARS to go. Consequently, I have become one of those people who have just stopped spending money. (Bad for the economy no doubt.) There used to be wiggle room and fun money, but no more. I watch every penny of every dollar. I hate it. How am I keeping (barely) sane? Working on myself. I quit smoking. I go to the gym more. Ive replaced soft drinks with water. I cant eek any more from my budget and I cannot get more pay at work, so… the only thing I can ‘better’ is myself. By the time I can afford that home I hope to look and feel great.
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Gold has 1% return over the past 80 years?
The gold price in 1931 was fixed at $20/oz, now it is $1745/oz. It is a 8725% higher today.
Of course that is measured dollars so it’s not really an investment return, a gold/oz in 1931 will buy the same amount of real goods as gold/oz in 2011. It is more accurate to say that the fiat paper dollars have lost value.
Most buyers of gold and other precious metals view their purchases as capital preservation, not as an investment.
The central banks can print, the amount of currency goes up, and the $/gold ratio goes up.
The central banks can raise interest rates (or god forbid allow some insolvent business to fail), the amount of currency goes down, and the $/gold ratio goes down.
Doesn’t matter to the PM holders. The gold is always going to buy about the same amount of real goods. But you would not have wanted to hold on to dollars during the past 80 years.
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Yeah, that confused me too. I am not a math genius or an investing guru, but I know gold. My dad obsessively followed it my whole life. When I was 10 I could tell you the price of gold and silver (FWIW when I was 10 AG was about 5 bucks an ounce. It is 32 bucks today). So when I read the price of gold returns about 1% I was confused. I think a lot of people who don’t invest or study gold claim that it is a terrible investment. But the people I know who invest in gold can SHOW the opposite. I know a guy who bought gold in the 80s for around $600 an ounce. So he has made, what, a 200% return over the course of 30+ years? I’d take that.
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The problem comes when you adjust for inflation. Google “inflation calculator”. It would take $1566 to buy in 2010 what would have bought $600 worth of stuff in 1980. The *real* rate of return (meaning, after inflation) for gold over the time frame you’re talking about is less than 1% if he spent $600 an oz in the early 80s.
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I agree with Des. In fact if you use dollar depreciation instead of ‘inflation’ the effect is even more pronounced. Your friend did not have a 200% return, he only preserved his purchasing power. Which is quite an accomplishment under the current global economic regime. Even the stock market is a long term loss. (Google “Start Thinking in Terms of Gold Price” for charts)
You can’t measure investment returns in dollars. The dollar is simply a ledger entry which is no way representative of anything of tangible value.
Using it as a measure is like using a ruler that is always getting smaller, where the actual length of an inch is always going down. Every day you measure your object it’s a bit more inches but the actual size isn’t changing.
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We continue saving in a regular savings account even though the interest is low. At least our money is safe. We have been spooked by the stock market, but we keep a little money invested there in commodities as an inflation hedge. I spend money on basic items that I think might increase in price due to inflation. Our 401K in in a fund that is geared to our age, so we feel that is fairly safe. Nothing is certain, but we are being pretty conservative with our finances.
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I retired early and have not touched my 401K yet but it gets smaller and smaller. Everytime it climbs back up and then takes a dive again like last week. I used to check in on the balance every month…now I do not even want to look at it. I concentrate on getting more money into savings accounts instead.
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I think the problem is we all get bored too fast these days.
When you need the money.. you’ll be glad you have it!
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A couple thoughts:
I firmly believe you have to have something to save for otherwise it probably won’t happen. Sounds like this reader has his goal – a home.
If you don’t have a goal, set it and forget it (automate) and find something else to get excited about.
Look around for discounts to try to earn a better return. For example, we are prepaying our car insurance for 6 months and saving 5%. It’s not as sexy as seeing your stocks go up 5%, but just as rewarding financially.
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I stay motivated by setting multiple small term goals and a couple long terms goals. Short term is less than 6 months to attain. Ex; save $1,000 by end of March for plane tickets to Florida. Long term is 5+ years….. Ex; pay off mortgage by the time my son goes off to college in 7 years. I try to make it a personal game….also, track your goals monthly with a spreadsheet and review weekly.
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Inflation hedges: tools, skills, tangible assets like a year’s supply of toilet paper, and anything that improves your health.
If you are going to buy a house in a couple of years, you might as well equip yourself and start learning how to maintain it now. But it does sound like a rather hollow goal in itself. I could have been living in my own paid-off house by now, alone with a dozen cats and a big pile of savings, but instead I found something better than money: a husband and three lively children.
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Congrats on the husband and family
I understand your comment that having a spouse and children is more important than having a paid off home, but I’m not sure what you think the OP should be doing right now. I’m in the same boat: single, and saving up for a home (a modest condo, in my case). Yes, it’s great to have kids and to spend money on said kids, but what if you haven’t been blessed with a spouse and kids yet?
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A house is a big goal. It would definitely be easy to get bored throwing money at an account for that goal. Someone may have already said this, by why doesn’t Michael pick an ADDITIONAL goal? Something smaller like travel, or a hobby he’s interested in. Then he’ll have something that he’s excited to save for and he can just keep plunking away on saving for a house. Perhaps Michael is bored because he isn’t paying enough attention to his present happiness.
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I sympathize with your distate for the current stock market. I currently have a 5 yr return of 1.9% and am wondering what option to pick.
1. Stay the course, continue with current aggressive approach to investing. I don’t need the money for years anyway.
2. Get off the stock market roller coster and head to the kiddy rides. I could have gotten 1.9% without the vomit inducing drops of the past few years.
3. Spend more money. It would be nice to have a car windshield without a crack, a tv made in the last decade, and a vacation.
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Dear Michael – It’s time to focus up sir. In this economy, if you can honestly say you’re “on solid financial footing” with “low debt” and “bright career prospects” then it’s time to accept the fact that saving right now is NOT going to make you get rich quick OR give you the thrill of fast growing wealth it might have in previous years. Accept the fact that now is the time to continue investing faithfully, continue to whittle down that debt, continue to work hard at your career but….focus on other things in your life. If you find you have nothing else to distract you from checking your investment statements, it’s time to GET other things in your life (the finger on this points as much to me as you). Stop checking your statements, stop worrying about your .5% interest rate, keep all your automated or planned savings going and find other things to do after work while the economy sorts itself out. If you aren’t planning on needing the money in the next 5 years, then it might not be worth your time to fret over every ups and downs (or downs and downs lately) of the market. I’m having to learn to do this myself. It’s difficult, but not impossible.
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For me, I keep my money on automatic savings, then I start looking around at my lifestyle to see where else I can save. I read three or four frugal living/simple living/minimalist type blogs and feel better knowing I already have the savings/investing part down pat. I just reviewed all my books and CDs, silver plate I no longer use, clothes and camping gear for a planned spring yard sale. Makes me feel better when I see I am doing the best I can.
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We’re in a similar position – we have quite a bit of money in savings at the moment, but with UK officially at 5+% (and in reality more than that) and savings accounts around 3%, our money is losing value every day.
Over the last year or so, I’ve exchanged future-pointless-savings for more time — dropping the amount of hours I work to have more time to do my own thing — and once his business is more self-reliant/he is less excited by it, my partner will probably do the same. There seems no point just accumulating more of it to then have it lose some value!
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