“Oh hey, that was a great third date, do you want to be my girlfriend?” “Yes! I’m available tomorrow to join our bank accounts. Or we could wait until next week.”

What?

Just as Stephen Covey said in The Speed of Trust, “Trust, but verify.”

Another example was my friends mom, years after the divorce the IRS came after her for taxes her ex owed. I was shocked they could do that even though they had been divorced for a long time. They took everything she had in her name and anything she jointly owned with her current husband. The only thing left was anything that was in her new husband’s name and not hers.

You are truly lucky to be in a situation with no risk, but it can be really dangerous to assume that because you’re married you are totally safe financially. For many people that would be a faulty assumption.

I know plenty of “common law” couples who have every commitment node properly in place who never got a license. These people have been together and committed for more years in a row, than their critics have been officially pre-nupped and married to multiple partners added together.

The STD advice, just like sexual STD advice, sounds more for those who are still debating jumping in the better-and-worse pool, regardless of pieces of paper. This advice is only marginally appropriate (in the case of developed abuses) for those who are already committed.

Otherwise, just as you are implying that someone with a sexual STD is not worthy of marriage, family, love, because of a mistake…you are implying that someone without financial security is also not worthy…

Which on this thread comes dangerously close to introducing the kettle to the pot.

if you can’t trust them without the piece of paper, what makes you think the paper makes them more trustworthy?

My dad’s an alcoholic. Depending on him financially and giving him total trust was ruinous to our family, and to him – he needed supervision and hard limits on his behavior, not trust. (His second wife provides both, and they are doing great.) If you read people’s debt stories, a lot of spouses hide debt, spending, and addiction from their spouses out of a combination of weakness and love. Giving them carte blanche does NOT help these people, it just lets them big a digger hole for themselves, and for you.

I am not the most financially-savvy, but I have certainly learned from my past. As well as from observing others. Fortunately my wife is about a genius.

These are truly some good points in this article. Sort of ‘financial self-defense’ in a way. Thank you for the article that we can share w/ others for whom we might not know how or be able to talk to directly.

For me though, the trouble is with my relationships with friends. End up eating out just about every time I visit them (since we’re usually meeting in the middle somewhere, and I live in the middle of nowhere). That, and they’ll go to bars and parties a lot, and I almost always end up spending money when I’m with them, even if it’s not very much; all of those little transactions add up eventually.

I have invented some ways to enjoy their company without spending money though, and without having to travel long distances to see each other (which almost always ends up costing money.) One thing I’ve started doing is watching movies together over Skype with VLC (just set up VLC to stream over the internet, and share the link with your friend.) One higher quality content there can be some lag time (can’t wait until we have GB/s internet) of a couple of seconds or so, but you’ll essentially be watching the movie or show in sync (or you can just load the movie separately and try to hit play at the same time… but that isn’t nearly as nerdy.)

Anyway, yeah, the trust thing– my whole point I guess is that if you don’t trust them you shouldn’t marry them in the first place. Cart before horse etc. Which doesn’t mean those things don’t happen.

+ imelda: I guess my criticism has more to do with the normalization of the “marriage-lite” institution, and the common notion of marriage as a temporary alliance of individuals who are hot for each other (“in love”) rather than the solid establishment of a family bond. This has nothing to do with religion or anything of that sort, by the way.

@Lina: to me, the lesson from that story is “don’t marry a lawyer” ha ha ha. But yes, some people are jerks, stuff happens, etc.

Also notice I said *won’t* work, not doesn’t or can’t work. Money isn’t the only thing people can contribute to relationships. That doesn’t mean you can’t get into a relationship where the other person is only interested in using you, and one really objective way to measure that is the flow of money.

Our family is just working out how to have a frank discussion on spending decisions with our parents (my in-laws). Happily married for 60 years, but FIL has a habit of making unilateral decisions a about car buying and announcing it (to us as well as his wife) before the papers are signed but with no intention of changing his mind.

The one idea I’d already come up with was a set “if I want to spend more than $x, I will discuss it with my spouse and wait at least y weeks until completing the transaction”.

I can claim that “that’s what we do in our family”, since my spouse & I discuss just about every expenditure before making it (even ‘I’m going to the hardware store and I am getting xyz and expect it to be no more than $n’). Mostly because we both have access to 2 joint accounts and 3 business accounts (3 different entities, and joint accounts are at 2 different banks in 2 different states thanks to our recent move).

When you marry – or form a long term relationship with someone – it should be with someone you love, value and trust. My boyfriend and I work hard, share finances and support each other (emotionally and financially, as our salaries can vary).

But if you are in a relationship with someone you don’t or can’t trust, probably not a good idea to add money to the mix (or marry or have children with them or buy a house together).

And El Nerdo – hope you got a good night’s (day’s?) sleep.

Conversely, even if they aren’t being malicious but just incompetent, if one person is always shoring up the other and cleaning up after them and covering for them – enabling them, basically – the enabler is not recognizing their OWN worth. Money is only one part of it, but it’s one crucial part.

Isn’t that exactly the point of this article? To make sure you are with someone with whom you can have open discussions about money, and come to agreement about it?

What in this article indicates that you shouldn’t devote any of your time and money to your loved ones?

I don’t see how a “loan” to your significant other would work. If the guy/gal is in trouble, then help them out – if you don’t, why stay in the relationship?

And what does it say about the relationship when you enter it putting all these “just in case” stuff (like protecting your money from your own spouse) in place. You’ve assumed the relationship will fail before it even starts… so guess how you behave if that’s your assumption and how that relationship will end if you behave that way.

It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you don’t trust the guy/gal enough to share your your finances, then don’t be with him/her.

P.S. I am the sole bread winner in my household but my wife manages the money at home.

Fast forward 3 years later when they’re breaking up and no one wants to pay off those credit cards.

It followed my brother for quite some time and I’m pretty sure it followed her too.

And how many People’s Court cases are of ex lovers trying to get the other to pay them back for cell phone bills, car loan, etc. etc.

I come from a country were the social system is based on that both work. The general rule is that you will not get alimony more then a couple of months if you get divorced and have been a housewife. The alimony is only during a transition period. Your assets are split into half if you dont have a prenup.

I know some really smart female lawyers that were not so smart in their financial decisions. They were married to a lawyers. They worked in the public service and took the main responsibility of the kids and therefore also less pensions etc. Their husbands worked in the private sector. Made their lawfirms private assets by a prenup. Bought houses, art and other investments in the name of the company. Everything was fine until the day that they decided that they didn’t want to married anymore. The husbands owned only the company that was their private through a prenup. Suddenly there wasn’t anything to split between the spouses. Or actually in one of the cases there where the inheritance of the wife.

My lesson. Don’t ever sign a prenup or if you sign don’t buy everything through a company that is privare property through a prenup because then you can end up with nothing after 20 years of marriage.

Even though most of the people dont enter a marriage with the tought that they will be divorcing I think it is essential to really consider the possible longterm pitfalls of financial decisions.