Two months ago today, I asked my wife for a divorce.
I won’t be writing about the personal aspects of the divorce at Get Rich Slowly. In fact, other than some brief background at my personal site, I don’t intend to write it about it on the web at all. Kris and I are both emotional wrecks right now; the wounds are fresh and raw for both of us.
That said, I can no longer avoid sharing the truth with GRS readers. Too many of my financial decisions — present and future — are tied to the divorce. I’m hunting for health insurance, for instance, and I’ll have to re-evaluate my asset allocation. And ten days ago, I moved to a new apartment.
Living Small
For the past eight years, Kris and I have lived in an 1800-square-foot house on three-fifths of an acre. The place also includes a large garage, a workshop, and a couple of out-buildings. Plus, I’ve been leasing an office up the street. Despite working to reduce clutter in my life, I have a lot of Stuff. I’ve written a lot about wanting to simplify, about wanting to live in a smaller space, but I’ve been reluctant to take the necessary action.
Now, though, I’m moving. And because I’m moving, I feel obligated to practice what I preach. While part of me wants to find another house (Kris is keeping ours), I know it’s better to find a smaller space and to adjust my life to fit it. Thus, I’ve been looking to see how some of my friends manage to live not-so-big lives.
For instance, last fall Tammy — who writes about simplicity at Rowdy Kittens (and who shared a GRS reader story about the benefits of biking) — moved into a tiny house. The entire home is only 130 square feet! She and her husband had me over for dinner recently, and I shot some video of the space:
I loved Tammy and Logan’s tiny house. The floor plan is well-designed and functional. Still, I’m not ready to live that small just yet.
Instead, I opted to rent an apartment.
The Apartment
While most folks were spending Thanksgiving week, well, giving thanks, I was hunting for apartments. Some might consider going from house to apartment a step backward. I don’t mind. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, I actually believe renting can be a great choice for the right person. In this case, I think I’m the right person.
While searching for a place to live, I tried to take a lot of things into account. Price was important, obviously, but so was the age of the place, the layout, and, especially, the location. Over the past five years, I’ve come to place a premium on walkable neighborhoods, and I know I wanted an apartment with a high walk score.
I found a place I liked in a good location near downtown Portland — the biggest drawback is that it’s right next to a donut shop (danger! danger!) — and signed a lease. But then I started to worry that I was paying too much. By comparing notes with other people, I’ve since decided that while I’m not getting a bargain, my rent is reasonable.
Best of all, the apartment has a walk score of 88 (very walkable) and a transit score of 73 (excellent transit). And because I’m an avid walker, I can reach neighborhoods that the Walk Score app doesn’t consider. (As a comparison, our house has a walk score of 49, meaning car-dependent, and a transit score of 32, which means it has some transit.)
I’ve been in my new place for ten days now, and I like it — but it doesn’t feel like home. Still, I’m trying to make the most of these 705 square feet. Instead of just talking about how much I want to cut back on clutter, I’ve been faced with tough decisions every day. Which books do I keep? Which comics? How many pairs of shoes? How many jackets? Do I really need (or want) my records and record player?
By making judicious choices (and with the help of some new furniture from Ikea), I think I’ve reached a good balance. My new place contains the things I need — but it’s not filled with a lot of clutter and junk. It’s my hope that this will continue for the foreseeable future.
Fear of the Future
Now that I have a place to live — and now that I’m mostly unpacked — there are other problems to tackle as a result of the divorce.
For one, how do I handle health insurance? For eighteen years, I’ve been on Kris’ policy. Not anymore. After the divorce is final, I have only a few weeks (or maybe even just a few days) before my coverage with her carrier lapses. I’m the sort of guy who might risk going without health insurance for a few months or years, but Kris won’t have it. “We are not getting a divorce until you can prove to me that you have health insurance,” she told me the other day.
Meanwhile, what do I do about my office? Does it make sense to continue to rent that space? Should I find someplace closer? More importantly, what about day-to-day stuff like laundry and groceries. Obviously, I’m capable of handling these chores on my own, but due to the division of labor within our marriage, I’ve always relied on Kris to handle most of these chores. Now I’m going to have to budget for food, plan meals, and buy supplies on my own.
Kris has lots of questions about the future too. She’s still in the house, after all. How will she handle the yard work? Who’s going to take care of her car? And so on. But she too is capable of handling these things on her own. Besides, we both agree that figuring out the chores is inconsequential to figuring out the big stuff, the emotional stuff.
For now, Kris and I are still in constant contact. We had dinner Friday night, I drove by the house yesterday, and we’ll have dinner together tomorrow night. Plus, we still plan to share a vacation to Argentina in a few weeks. If one of us gets into trouble, the other will be there to help. Our marriage may be ending, but our friendship isn’t.
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Extremely sorry to hear about this. I have been with my husband as long as you and Kris have been together and I cannot imagine walking away from those years of shared experiences. Condolences to you both.
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I didn’t want to hear this. You both seem so reasonable in every way, and you also seemed to perfectly check each other. I hope a few months down the road, you both decide you need each other more than whatever it is you’re thinking you need now.
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As a long time reader of the blog, I’m sorry to hear this. The hints have been there for a while, but the two of you seemed happy – I hope you both can move on and find happiness again.
I’ve been there, and for me, my divorce was a good decision, and after a few years of pain and anger, we even manage (now) to co-parent well.
As for the comment earlier about self-improvement – well, all I can say is, you have to make YOU happy. I too have lost weight and changed my life significantly in the last few years, and my current spouse, instead of drifting away, has joined me and our relationship is better than ever. The decision to grow and change does not always lead to the end of a marriage!
There are so many other, subtle things that go on under the surface, no one can know the true reason it ends.
Good luck to both you and Kris.
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I am sorry to hear this and I wish you both well. My ex-husband and I had an amicable divorce and we still remain friends.
I have one piece of advice for two people who are adamant about staying friends throughout this process – listen to your gut and not always the advice of well-meaning friends. It is entirely possible to have a divorce free of hostility and back-stabbing. Again, I wish you both well.
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I second this. My ex and I get along SO much better now that we are not trying to live together. In fact, so much better that I have never wanted to make the separation “official” because he is the person I’d want to make decisions for me if I were incapacitated.
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I’m sorry but your emphasis on staying friends is wishful thinking at best; that doesn’t work when one spouse demands a divorce and the other doesn’t want it. Of course she’s going along with it now – probably because she’s heartbroken and hopes you’ll change your mind – but resentment and bitterness will come out sooner or later, unless she’s done something specific to deserve this that you haven’t shared. Hopefully she can move past that quickly, but she won’t be able to if you’re still randomly inserting yourself in her life yet refusing to be her partner.
At worst your friendship pledge – including promises to go on a trip with her and have dinner with her and leave her in your will – are a cruel defense mechanism you’re using to try to assuage the guilt you feel for abandoning your spouse. Are you torn about your decision or are you dragging her along to ease your own guilt? Oh I feel sorry for Kris. I know you mean well – most men do, regardless of how hurtful and destructive their actions end up being. But this will be so much harder on her; you literally have no idea. And you don’t want to.
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P.S. On a more pragmatic note, as a New Yorker 700 square feet is PLENTY of space for one person.
Also, my self-employed/remote working friends ALL rent a work space (here its more likely to be a cube in a co-working space rather than an “office”). It preserves their sanity and helps them feel part of a community. I would think that would be more important than ever during this time. I googled “coworking Portland” and found this wiki:
http://wiki.coworking.info/w/page/16583655/CoworkingPortland
As an HR professional, will also echo what another commenter said about a broker for health insurance. They can really help re: price. Asking other self-employed folks (at a co-working space!) will also lead to some tips, I bet.
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While I understand the desire to remain friendly, I think it is harder on the person who doesn’t want the relationship to end. Taking a vacation together (somewhat of an odd decision viewed from the outside) is possibly unfair to and ultimately more painful for your partner than simply cancelling.
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Amen. Don’t ruin a trip to Argentina.
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I, too, read that first line several times to figure out if it was written by JD. So sorry to hear…such a tough decision. Best of luck to you both.
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I’m sorry about the divorce.
I’ve been there and well…its tough but it can be a door opening to new things as well.
Regarding health insurance. Years ago I separated from my husband, who had a myriad of medical problems and was unable to work. I stayed married to him to keep him on my health insurance. Then I learned that in the state I worked in (Massachusett) there was a law on the book that a divorced spouse could stay on an ex’s health insurance if there was a court order. (It depends on the state you’re employed in, since the court orders the employer to keep him on) This ability only works if you do not remarry however.
I filed for divorce the next day. So when we had the divorce mediated we wrote this into the divorce decree. (no lawyers, divorce cost us $180 AND we had a child but no home, which had been sold years earlier when we first separated)He stayed on my health insurance until he died (from a heart attack, not his chronic illness).
I don’t know about your state, but it may be worth your time to research this possibility. Currently I am self employed, and I purchase my insurance through my state’s high risk insurance pool for both myself and my son. (We both have chronic medical conditions and couldn’t get insurance any other way). It’s expensive and has a high deductible but we have insurance for catastrophic stuff.
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Hi JD -
I just wanted to drop a note to say thank you for sharing and I’m sorry to hear the news. Divorces are never easy, and it takes courage to share what you’re going through with readers. I hope you eventually find “like” with your apartment. 8 years into my lease, I hate mine more every day but I deal with it – I find apartmenttherapy.com is a great resource – because the rent is cheap and the location is ideal. Good luck on all your new endeavors and keep us posted on how it’s going.
Best,
Nicole
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Sorry to hear this. Wishing the best for you and Kris.
When you’re ready, look into collaborative divorce. It is less expensive than the regular method, and while both parties have a lawyer, the lawyers are not adversarial. It sounds like something that might work well for you.
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Kris, if you are reading this, I wish you the best of luck. We may not know you as well as we “know” J.D. from reading GRS over the years, but I can tell that you are a strong and good person and I know that you can pull through this.
J.D., good luck with sorting out all of the changes that this will bring to your life. I applaud Kris for not allowing you two to finalize the divorce until you have your own health insurance.
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Not sure of laws in your state, but here in MD, unless there is violence or criminal acts, a couple must be legally separated for two years before they can divorce. Lots of time to give everything consideration and to get all your ducks in a row.
Also, you don’t have to leave Kris’ health insurance plan. COBRA makes that clear. For I think two, maybe three (you’ll have to check) you can remain on the plan, but you will have to have a separate policy from Kris and you will have to pay the premium yourself. What’s nice about that situation is it gives you lots of time to shop for insurance and, during a time of radical changes, you don’t have to leave your doctors, etc.
Wishing you and Kris all the best.
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Divorce laws differ a lot from state to state. Oregon is one of the states with a “no fault” divorce law – you don’t need any reason to get divorced other than that you no longer want to be married.
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J.D.: Wishing you and Kris strength and support from friends and family as you two grow into another type of relationship. A counselor told me that love once given is never something to regret, and I must agree…love comes in many forms and friendship can be a strong and healthy one for you two. May you both move forward to happiness.
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First, I sincerely wish you well, and I agree with the other commenters that it’s wonderful that you and your wife have the maturity to go forward as friends.
With respect to finances, the principal reason we save is to be able to weather unexpected storms. Living more simply is part of that, as is investing wisely. I have no doubt that the financial philosophy you have developed will serve you well through these difficult times. Good luck!
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Bigger changes happening in your life than I ever imagined out here in bloggerville. And there have been some big ones that you’ve shared since I started reading. SO much growth in a few years for you.
I was with you for the very best stuff-paying off debt, quitting your job to blog full time, your first book, getting fit, the garden project, and the amazing travels this year.
On the flip side, I definitely could relate to the posts about getting your mother into a more stable environment and cleaning up the finances afterward. And the headache of maintaining an older home (money pit). And wondering all the usual questions about whether or not we’re earning/saving/spending enough for everything we need/want( daily life,retirement, EF, pleasurable pursuits)
for the life we want.
We haven’t met, but we share our lives as though we were friends. I check in here daily and make the occasional comment.
We share some of the same guilty pleasures: food, books and gadgets. (And a propensity to overspend at times on them because they bring us so much joy and pleasure.) Temper your anxiety with these things as part of taking care of yourself. As you can. Meditation helps too.
My best to Kris, as she has been a favorite of mine here on the site. The occasional column, the food!:gardening/canning/preserves,
practical organization and saving skills she has are all pure gold in my book. I’ll miss her presence here.
My friendly advice: Be especially mindful and kind to yourself and Kris over the next year.
Change, even desired change, is hard enough.
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beautifully said elena.
JD – I wish you well
Kris – I wish you well
Sincerely, CWall
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I’m so sorry to hear this. I am “just” a reader, but feel I have come to know you and Kris over the years, and know how hard it can be to break up a long-term relationship, and my heart hurts a little for you both today.
After a bad break-up a few years ago, I relocated from our shared apartment and got rid of a TON of my stuff. Part of it was practical, as it was easier/cheaper to ship less stuff to my new home, but part of it was an emotional cleansing of my “old” life. It felt empowering at a time when little else did. It was also nice to give some of my stuff to friends and colleagues and know those things would continue to be enjoyed.
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Oh, my heart breaks for the two of you. Whether it’s a mutual decision of not, divorce is never easy. My prayers go out to you both.
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How lovely and brave of you to be so vulnerable sharing the truth of your situation with your readers, opening yourself to both criticism and support. Thank you for letting us in. List me as a supporter of you and your journey, wherever that may lead you. I am sorry for the pain you are experiencing and wish you and Kris happiness in the future.
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So sorry to read this, I’ll be thinking of you both during this difficult time and wish you both the best in starting your new own adventures while maintaining your friendship.
Know that you’ve told us (your loyal readers but still strangers) all we need to know, you both have a right of privacy in private matters like these and you don’t owe anybody an explanation, though knowing your readership I doubt many will pry for details.
That being said I’m looking forward to your posts in regards to de-cluttering and starting your “new” life, as my husband and I will be getting rid of mostly everything and starting over in a new state in a few short months, so your information will come in handy and be very appreciated.
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Having been through a divorce about 5 years ago, I can say (for me anyway) divorce sucks. Starting over sucks too. Looking back, I would say: Do anything and everything you can to save your relationship. I mean everything! The investment both of you have made is far beyond anything financial that has been discussed on your blog. I know, I don’t know your circumstances, everyone is different. I am 5 years out and it still sucks! There is no “minimally painfull”, if you have a great “friendship” relationship now, that’s great…use that as leverage to “rebuild”. As investments go, don’t bail yet. Get solid christian counseling…houses, cars, investments, friends, portfolios, there is nothing more important than your relationship…nothing. You could live in a 200 sq.ft. box and eat cheerios…and it would be better. I do wish you both the best and hope your situation can change.
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Sorry to hear about the divorce. There were quite indications in previous articles like many others have mentioned?
What good is it to “Get Rich Slowly”, if I end up in divorce, live lonely, and have no long lasting partner?
Reading successful people’s autobiography, they always contribute their success to their spouse. Unless there is abosolutley bigger cause like cheating and violence, “divorce” is not essestial. It is a sign of failure.
Generally, it’s “Me, mine, and mine only” attitude that leads to divorce. Compromise, Sharing, and Respecting each others needs never leads to divorce.
Financially,people loss 50% or more of their net worth through divorce.
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Your logic is bizarre and ridiculous. You have no idea if “get rich slowly” had anything to do with JD’s divorce. And it’s so weird to read people dissing personal growth, evolution and change because it might lead to divorce. That’s insane. If changing for the better leads to divorce, perhaps the original relationship wasn’t worth being in forever. And in what way does getting divorced mean never having love or losing all significant relationships? People who are committed to personal growth and to being mature in their relationships will most likely find another love (or many loves), might just be happier than they ever were before, and might indeed find a relationships that lasts until death parts them. This commentor and some others life such fear-based lives. Sometimes change, even radical change, is good. Sometimes there’s better stuff waiting for you that you’ll never learn about if you don’t take a leap. Sometimes you can change and the people you love go along with you. Sometimes they don’t, but how sad to be stifled in other equally important parts of life (emotional, relational, financial, physical, etc) just for the sake of hanging onto one significant relationship that might no longer be fulfilling.
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Wow, I am not surprised at all (I saw the writing on the wall in the “Big House, Little House” post from this summer) but I am surprised at how unsettled I find myself.
My husband and I have been together for 12 years, married for 5, and during much of that time, we’ve lived in different states and different countries. And in a lot of ways, our life together now would be unrecognizable to our former selves (for instance, we met living in the suburbs in the Midwest and now live in 600 sq foot apartment on the East Coast; he had never left the country when we met and has now been to over 20 countries).
We’ve actually remarked at how fortunate it is that we’ve always managed to grow together instead of apart. Whenever I hear about stories like this from people a decade or two ahead of us, it really makes me wonder what we would do if we found ourselves diverging…
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I’m in a similar place in life to you, A, and I was first shocked that this is happening, and then surprised at how hard I took it.
I have always enjoyed Kris’ guest posts about gardening/canning/food. Based on the snapshots of her that I’ve seen here, she’s someone I kind of want to be like when I grow up, and I have to say I feel miserable for her.
I wish Kris the best… and I really hope J.D. knows what he’s doing.
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You probably have plenty of divorce comments, so here are some thoughts on easy/quick ways to make your new apartment feel more like a home:
Get some plants – small and big, as big plants are good for filling up empty spaces without being imposing like furniture.
Hang up some art and framed photos. A place rarely feels homey with all white walls. Ikea has cheap frames. You could do a wall collage with a bunch of travel photos in 4×6, 5×7 and 8×10 frames.
Have a mix of furniture and include some older items you liked from your old house. It’s hard for a place to feel homey if the furniture is all generic and of the same style (like all Ikea, for example).
Paint a wall a bright/fun color if you want to add some energy to the space.
Make sure there are some other decorative touches out and about, like items you collected on travels.
Invite over a friend (or two) who has good decorating sense/skills to give you advice and help arrange stuff. I can make a huge difference in someone’s apartment by playing around with their current stuff for an hour.
It’s probably way too soon to consider doing this, but you could walk yourself down to the shelter to get a cat or two to warm up the place!
Have comfy bedding – enough pillows, a fluffy comforter, nice quality sheets and duvet, etc. Some bachelors have the most depressing beds.
Also, try to switch you mindset about the size of your new place. It’s huge for 1 person. No one needs more space than that, and 700 sf is quite big for a 1-bedroom. Lots of city dwellers regularly live in half the space, including couples. And I’ve found that the best way to avoid accumulating too much stuff (for people who are prone to do so) is to force yourself to curb that habit by limiting storage and living space. Your house with the barn and out-buildings and garage was a disaster for someone who is prone to gathering stuff, because there’s always somewhere to put the stuff or to get it out of sight for the moment.
Alright, I tried to control myself, but I shall also leave one divorce comment/opinion… while doing what works best for you and Kris is always the best approach, do be careful about trying to have an extremely close friendship right after a divorce. And be very careful about things like still sharing a giant overseas trip right after deciding on a divorce. Like Kris, I was once on the receiving end of someone deciding to end a long-term relationship. It’s easy to continue to try to hang on and to postpone the inevitable if you don’t want the breakup. It’s easy to cling to the past and to hope that the other person will change his mind. Going on a trip together and hanging out really often could easily be confusing to both people, but especially to the person who does not want the divorce. It’s hard to truly sever the ties and let the reality of divorce hit if you’re still that connected, and it’s hard to start the process of moving on. But, I’m sure you’ll find your own way and that all will be fine…
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One more belated thought, and then I promise to stop commenting on the lives of others
What “Kris wants” these days might not actually be what’s the least hurtful to her or the best for either of you. Just because you asked for the divorce doesn’t mean you need to keep doing whatever she requests. She is most likely currently motivated by hoping you will change your mind or convincing you to change your mind. She wants to believe that you are confused and that you’ll change your mind. She would not want this trip with you otherwise. And it’s a strange premise to do this trip so you can make sure you’ll be able to travel together in the future. Being true best friends after a divorce doesn’t happen. Sure, it’s possible to be friends and be civil. But you’re not going to remain international travel partners as soon as she actually starts to disconnect from you or as soon as one of you starts dating someone else. Your current method is one of pulling the bandaid off very slowly, giving Kris the hope that maybe the divorce won’t happen, and perhaps selfishly relying on each other as “best friends” when that’s not the reality. Of course, do what works best for both of you, but also don’t be deluded and don’t necessarily take Kris’ explanations at face-value. Also, don’t continue using Kris as your best friend in a way that might be selfish toward her – she needs to first truly accept that you are divorced and then draw her boundaries from there.
Also, at some point your self-flagellation has gotta stop
I know you feel guilty for initiating the divorce. But given that you didn’t cheat and you didn’t abuse your partner, and assuming that you made a good faith effort to save the relationship before divorcing, you did nothing wrong. To actually move on as a non-married person, you’ll have to stop doing whatever Kris wants at some point. I hope the financial division ends up being fair eventually and not just whatever benefits Kris because you feel guilty. And I hope you eventually get to truly move on into whatever phase of life is next (which is hard for you or Kris to do while still acting like each other’s platonic husband/wife).
Okay, I’ll shut up now given that I don’t actually know you and have little business weighing in on the personal lives of others. And yet I do it so well!
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Been there, done that. Ended a 15 year relationship/13 year marriage just over a year ago. We went to dinner and a movie after we left the divorce hearing. We still work together. Easy? No. Better than staying together and progressing to outright hatred? Yes. He wanted the divorce, I didn’t, but a marriage cannot succeed if only one partner is trying to make it work.
On the finance debate, our finances were combined as soon as we got married. I doubt that played any part at all. Our issues were of communication and honesty. Life goes on.
Best of luck.
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I am sorry to hear about this painful transition in both of your lives.
Health Insurance
I am around 40 and provide my own health care (and live in Portland). I decided on a Blue Cross HSA plan 4-5 years ago:
http://www.or.regence.com/employer/products/group/medical/hsa.html
My reasoning was that I would max my HSA, which is pre tax dollars I believe, and live with the out of pocket expense. Once I hit $5k in a year the insurance kicks in and I now have more than that in my HSA. If you have any chronic issues this might not be the right plan for you, however if you seldom need a doctor this works well. We also have zoom care in the area and they are a nice way to get to a reasonable priced doctor that you can use your HSA money on.
Best of luck, and feel free to email me if you would like more details.
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I’m a bit surprised by a few of the comments here, mentioning that divorce is the best thing when you grow apart. If someone believes that you can just divorce when you don’t like things, then what’s the point in marriage vows?
When we feel like we’re not happy anymore, shouldn’t we do everything in our power to find happiness with the person we’ve chosen? It can mean a lot of changes, but it can always be done.
I realize that’s easy for me to say because I’ve been married less than 2 years, but don’t we all know that there will be very hard times to work through when we say our vows? I feel like “I need a divorce because I’m not happy” flies in the face of the purpose of marriage to begin with.
JD, I’m not saying this as a reflection on your personal situation because of course I don’t know anything about it, so I can’t (and shouldn’t) judge. I’m referring more to some of the comments.
I wish the best for both you and Kris! And I’d love to hear more about your new place. Glad you like the neighborhood.
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Not everyone has the same idea about what marriage is for – most people would probably tell you marriage is for making both people happy, especially where there aren’t children. What’s the point of staying married if you make each other unhappy?
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I agree 100% that marriage should make both parties happy. If you’re not happy in your marriage, it means you need to make some changes and sacrifices to get to where you both need to be, not get a divorce.
What you’re proposing (staying together as long as both are happy) sounds more like a civil union, or maybe dating. That’s great and that’s valid and I’m all for it.
But marriage is til death do us part. I understand many people don’t want to go through the sacrifice that often comes with that kind of crazy commitment. It’s understandable. But if you don’t want that, then don’t take vows that state otherwise.
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If most people believed in the “death til you part” thing, we wouldn’t have amended our marriage laws. Instead, we first got rid of the idea that marriages had to be annulled, and went to “fault” divorce. Fault divorces got easier and easier, and more and more cooperative, through the ’50s and ’60s, until the vast majority of Americans voted for legislators who legalized “no fault” divorce – that is, divorce for any reason at all, including simple unhappiness, without the need to demonize one spouse for legal reasons.
I just finished reading a great history of marriage by Stephanie Coontz, and she notes that an unexpected side effect of no-fault divorce was a lower rate of spousal murder.
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“I understand many people don’t want to go through the sacrifice that often comes with that kind of crazy commitment. It’s understandable. But if you don’t want that, then don’t take vows that state otherwise.”
Exactly so. So many people use the traditional marriage ceremony with the ancient vows, when they’re not actually intending to embark on that sort of intense commitment.
As Rosa points out, not so many people want the lifelong commitment anymore. I have often wondered why each couple today doesn’t change the vows for their own wedding to reflect exactly what they are, in fact, promising to do. Or what they’re celebrating, or whatever.
Why recite vows you don’t actually mean?
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(this reply is to Teresa)
Well, the vast majority of people who I’ve seen use the traditional vows (not everyone does) meant them at the time. But people do change their understanding over time.
The of pressure to use the traditional ones “or you’re not really married” can be pretty intense – look at the comments from people who think they can judge your marriage by your checking account, and imagine the response of some people’s families when they vow “As long as love lasts”.
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I think the big problem comes when one person meant “as long as we both shall live” while the other meant “as long as as are both happy with the arrangement”. That is pure tragedy for the spouse who thought they were signing up to have and to hold forever. It is a broken contract when one person leaves to be selfish, and that is where the moralizing kicks in (IMO). If two parties are just done and want to break up (and don’t have kids) more power to them. That isn’t the case here. This is one partner having a mid-life crisis and making a major life decision without the agreement of his life partner. Unfair and uncool.
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“If someone believes that you can just divorce when you don’t like things, then what’s the point in marriage vows?”
Inheritance rights, insurance rights, power of attorney, hospital visitation…when you own property together like a car being able to get joint insurance on the car.
There’s quite a number of reasons to get married. The key being if something happens then we don’t want to be treated like a complete stranger.
I’m not terribly interested in “marriage” and all the moralizing baggage that comes with it. I’m looking into cohabitation+springing power of attorney+wills with trusts to minimize tax issues. I’m glad the gays have been blazing that path, although its still a much more uncertain path. All stuff I wouldn’t have to worry about if we just went ahead and got married and stitched up a nice strong prenup.
So don’t tell me what marriage should or shouldn’t be. Until society provides a cheap, easy substitute (like French PACS) then if I do eventually give up and we settle on marriage you can be sure I will bastardize (in your eyes) the vows however I please (with the willingness of my boyfriend/partner).
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We gave up and got married after 6 years of civil union, because of the tax benefits.
If people are serious about marriage being about commitment, love, and sacred vows, then they should be voting the government out of the marriage business entirely, because what marriage actually is on a day to day level is a legal agreement with HUGE practical implications.
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Thanks to everyone for the replies. Interesting debate!
I think everyone brings up a good point about the legal benefits of marriage only being available with the “old-fashioned” vows, and I hadn’t thought of that aspect.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a solution to that in the future, even if it takes a few decades. As barnetto says, “I’m glad the gays have been blazing that path…”, which might lead to more rights and a more modern view on marriage (or something else entirely) for those interested.
For religious reasons I personally will stick to the old-fashioned way (and I still wish more couples would take marriage vows more seriously), but I think the options mentioned by Rosa and others should be available.
Thanks again for the perspective
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Like other regular readers, I’m surprised but not THAT surprised. You two seem like level-headed individuals who will find a way to work through what is needed. Best to both of you.
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My best regards. I’m going through the same thing: I asked my husband for a divorce and he doesn’t want it (and no other people involved). Just want both of us to have a chance to be happy. I can tell you it gets better: these last 2 weeks of living alone have been the most peaceful, relaxed and productive of my life. Freeing myself of the anxiety and guilt has left me feeling the best of my live. Good luck!
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re: “Compromise, Sharing, and Respecting each others needs never leads to divorce.”–What an ignoranat statement! L. O. L.
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So sorry about your divorce – I admire how well you seem to be handling it. Best of luck to you both going forward.
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I am so sorry to read this, J.D. When I read the first couple of sentences, it assumed it was a guest reader.
As I mentioned here before, I’ve went through a divorce as a fairly young age (early 20s) and ended another significant long-term relationship almost two years ago so I have some experience with transitioning.
In terms of getting a place of my own after being the one to leave, I’ve made some mistakes and also choices that worked for me in the long-run. I’m fortunate to have a beautiful apartment in a safe and fun area of Portland. Though I have a car, living in a walkable neighborhood is important to me. I can walk to two grocery stores (Fred Meyer, Whole Foods), coffee shops, great restaurants, bars and major bus lines within blocks of my home. I’m also on the heels of the Hollywood district which has lot of business and services that I frequent (gym, library, etc).
I could go on, but I know you have a lot on your mind. I wish you and Kris the best of luck in this major life transition.
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I’m surprised you left this post open for comments. You trust your readers very much.
Best wishes to you both in the next phase of your lives. It takes courage to recognize when a relationship has reached its natural end and to take the steps that are necessary for both people to grow in new ways.
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I had an “amicable” divorce after 20 years of marriage and 3 children. Jerry and I continued to have Sunday dinner with the kids, holidays and birthdays together etc. This lasted for 4 years until I realized that if I wanted to hang out with Jerry, I would probably not divorced him in the first place. I’m not sure this is impossible but I think we delude ourselves about the friendliness of our divorces, because we want to “good” people and do the “enlightened” thing.
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Oh, J.D., I’m so very sorry to hear this… You and Kris both have good heads on your shoulders and YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS. You two are in my thoughts and prayers, that you may find peace, happiness, and balance. Sending out positive energy to you…
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Sorry to hear about it, JD. I understand your need to share this with us from a practical, blogging point of view. Sadly, so many people will make judgments about you without any further information about why this happened. I hope you make it through a wiser and stronger person.
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Wow JD, so sorry to hear this, and sorry you had to go public with what is a private matter. I’m a been there, done it (I’m the one that moved out so had to pay rent, etc). I’m currently coaching my fifth or sixth friend through a divorce, so they don’t make mistakes I did-mistakes that took me almost 10 years to recover from financially. I respect your privacy on such matters, but there is a lot of information that John Q Public could gain from surviving a divorce financially (amicable or not) if you ever feel like sharing those experiences once the emotional roller coaster is over with.
Best of luck to you and Kris.
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Wow. As a long-time reader, this is a bit of a shock.
I’ve been married going on 18 years, together with my wife for 22 years, with 2 kids, and marriage is not always easy. Sometimes it seems to brings out the best and worst in us, brings intense highs and lows, affection and hurt, confidence and doubt.
For some, marriage seems to come easily, but for others–especially with old wounds from our own families–marriage can seem like a constant uphill slog.
I can’t know what this is like for you and Kris, but I wish you the best as you work through this incredibly difficult time.
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Sorry that hear this JD. Hope you two will have a good relationship going forward, but I imagine that it will be difficult.
Aren’t you worry about stalkers? Portland only has a few donuts shops and it will be easy to find you now with that info.
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I agree that the 15 year old mark is incredibly tough. At that point you are both solid adults and have the opportunity to reevaluate what you have done and where you are going and whether you would like to share that journey with the person beside you. It’s a hard but necessary moment of reflection.
With that said, I think that you are sweating the small stuff because the bigger picture (being newly single) is still harder to grasp. You can obtain relatively inexpensive health plans and should do so now before you get a moment older. If you can piggyback you wife’s plan through COBRA, some companies allow that as you were her dependent.
In the meantime, driving by the house is not something that you should do. Nostalgia romanticizes your view when you are apart. You need time to reflect.
Good luck.
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This made me so sad this morning! I also had to double check the writer. I am so sorry for both of you. I know that the readers of this blog only know the “character” of JD that you have created and we can’t possibly know what is going on in your life and relationship, but I hope that you know that our thoughts and prayers are with you. I haven’t been through a divorce, but I met my boyfriend of 2 and a half years just after his divorce was final, and my heart goes out to you. It is a very painful process of loss and the judgement in some of these comments when no one even knows the back story can make it even more difficult.
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Sorry to hear this, JD. More divorce advice from an older person who has gone through it:
1) Get a good lawyer for yourself, and Kris needs one too. Yeah, I know, you are going to go with a mediator and remain best friends forever etc. But the absolute best way to actually achieve this, and keep it going into the future, is to make sure that your separate interests are adequately and fully represented at the time of the divorce. Leave nothing undone that you can resent each other for later. Better to go through the angst now than create ongoing angst that isn’t easily fixable in the future.
2) Don’t make any big decisions/commitments for at least 12 months. Do not buy a house, car, change your profession, move to another city, get married again (lol) etc. No matter how well you think you’re doing, you’re not going to be able to think clearly for a while. Suppress your urge to take actions right away as a way of defining your new life–you’ll probably end up doing something you regret. So if it’s not urgent, table it.
3) Take the time to process the changes. It is OK to be non-productive because you probably will be. Feel free to stare at the ceiling for an entire weekend etc. Don’t beat yourself up about it. Let. it. be. You’ll come back to your normal self in time, but you have to process the changes eventually somehow and there’s no way through it but living through it.
4) Just my opinion, but consider canceling the trip–because, yikes, how painful. You’re getting divorced remember? I do think that the least you can do is recognize that it’s a Big Deal. It’s not a wrinkle in your relationship even though you seem to think that if you keep saying that it doesn’t make it quite as awful. On life stressor scales, divorce is right up there with death of a parent or child, you should honor that, IMO.
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Yes, that trip sounds like a truly bad idea.
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Speaking from experience. Divorce is not fun, but you do recover. Points #2 and #4 are very good advice. Divorce has very real physical effects on the body. Weight loss/gain, hair loss, lack of sleep/too much sleep, etc. etc. The point is over the next 12 months neither you nor Kris will be mentally thinking straight.
The vacation will be too fraught with emotions for either of you to truly enjoy, and may lead you to never return there. Just cancel for both of you.
Best of luck
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Good luck JD.
It’s got to be tough having focusing on your blog when your mind is other places.
But you most of all realize the financial implications of getting divorced. Divorce is among the worst decisions one can make financially, and you above all know this. So for you to initiate the divorce tells me you’ve got a lot of courage.
It’s easy to stay with the status-quo, it’s the courageous one who moves on in life. Kind of like Jacob at ERE going back to work.
I’ve been divorced a number of times. It’s really not so bad. The one I’m with now is a real bitch, but she’s hot in the sack.
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On one hand, oh, that sucks and on the other moving on can be a good thing. I’ve recently watch this happen to someone close to me and it can be a huge change.
Best of luck on your new life (as well to your wife). I’m sorry it didn’t work out, but I know that in some cases it just can’t continue. Not everything can be fixed with emotions.
Tim
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As a regular reader of your personal blog, I already knew about the divorce.
I don’t know either of you in real life, but after years of readership I feel both you and Kris aren’t strangers either. With that said, we only know a tiny tiny bit of your life, so I am wincing at all the judgmental comments.
The only thing I want to add is, I hope you really appreciate how much Kris has done for your self-development so far and never undervalue her part of the contribution going forward. I know both of you have a lot of respect for each other, so I am sure you will not take things for granted.
I wish good luck to both of you. May this transition make you appreciate each other more, respect each other more and provide a happier and peaceful life forward for both of you.
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“Kris is my best friend. I want her to remain that way.”
–Then you don’t ask her for a divorce. You don’t get both.
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I agree with Joe.
Part of the reason she is your best friend is because of the vows you took. It just seems like you are projecting failure into the future of the relationship to justify your current desires…
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divorce = unsuccessful marriage
It might be the right decision, you might remain friends, but your comment sounds disingenuous.
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JD,
As a long-time follower of your blog and one-time contributor, first I would like to say that I feel for you, and I sincerely hope that both you and Kris find happiness down the road.
Second, I think your comment about your marriage being a success and not a failure is critically important. I believe people are generally hungup on avoiding a perceived loss. This is done to the detriment of people’s well-being. In your case (and mine for that matter, having divorced in 2005 after nearly 15 years of marriage), the only thing that was lost was your future together as a married couple. If that was likely to turn out bitter, then you avoided the loss by getting divorced. Said another way, by divorcing, you are preserving the wonderful, loving, marriage that you had.
The same logic can be applied to financial management. The perspective of “the one who dies with the most toys/money/etc. wins” is the perspective of avoiding loss – this becomes a cheapened life through unnecessary conservatism. Similar to an ended relationship, when one dies, what they have lost is the future. They will always have their past. The best one can hope for is to look back and say that I lived my life to the fullest and I left no cards (or money) on the table.
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I’m glad to see the comments here are supportive, on balance. It’s not our business to know the back story, but I’m sorry this is happening.
I admit I look forward to hearing more about your life as you progress through this – the most personal posts are always the most interesting! You may get some great material out of dealing with Stuff (storage unit, or a real reckoning?), cooking, laundry, etc. I’ve always thought that couples with a good division of labor have a pretty sweet deal.
I’m a long-time apartment dweller and encourage you to give renting a fair shot; there are some great aspects to it! The recommendations to hang personal photos are right on; I find curtains make a place seem a lot more homey too. Oh, and I vote for keeping an away-from-home workspace, especially if you can build some human interaction into the mix. I was surprised to realize I get a little mopey if I don’t interact with people at least a little bit each day.
This is an unexpected new adventure for both of you – I hope it’s more positive than negative.
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Hi JD,
I too divorced after 24 years of marriage, that was four years ago. After a year I visited Argentina for the first time, kept returning, and have now been living here in Buenos Aires for two years. Don’t be afraid to consider similar ‘wild’ options. Life is short, and fear-not: the Spanish and friend-making will come. And with magicjack, smartphones, Kindle etc., and competitive airfares, it’s easy to stay in touch, as well as to return stateside periodically. Look me up when you come.
Un abrazo,
Jim
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The idea of divorce (in general) makes me queasy and sad. But I sincerely wish you guys all the best in this difficult time.
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I’m trying not to make this a negative comment, but I did want to say that the narrative you’ve given so far on your blog has been that Kris stuck by you in the early years while you had out-of-control consumer spending and were out of shape. I’m sure that had to hold her back, in some ways, when she was younger. And then now that you’re well off financially and are physically fit, it’s as if you’ve decided *she’s* holding *you* back…so you’re leaving her.
Again…I just wanted to point out that this is the narrative I’ve gotten from the blog. I do realize there could be a million other personal reasons why divorce seems like the right path for you.
It’s just sort of depressing to think of that storyline. The idea that one could support a partner through their financial turnaround, and then have that partner decide that they’re better off without you (or vice versa).
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I think this hits the nail on the head of what seemed so sad to me, as well. That “storyline” of a patient, supportive woman hanging in there while her husband got his act together, only to be discarded once he was fit and successful and happy and traveling, does rub the wrong way. I agree with J.D. that there is no way of knowing, but from the outside looking in, it seems as though she really hung on and invested in the relationship and “gave up” her younger years, thinking it would be paid back in a stronger relationship with a more mature spouse… and then he leaves. Very sad.
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But Courtney, it goes back to the fact that “we don’t know”. I do understand others here who’ve feel that the tidbits of his life we’ve been reading over the past year, the divorce announcement automatically means its ALL J.D.’s fault. That may be the case, but we still don’t know, it could be one of a million different reasons. For all we know, it could be Kris this whole time and he just doesn’t want to publicly vilify her.
I left an abusive ex-husband and the way it looked from the outside looking in, I got bored with him, found a new man and wanted to be done with him though it could not have been farther from the truth. To this day, years later, many people including my family still don’t know the real reasons why I left him.
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Sorry to hear about the news. It is sad to see a marriage ending.
Seems like Kris has a good head over her shoulders when she says you guys are not getting a divorce until you have helth insurance. I’m surprised you from all people might risk going without health insurance; a broken leg or a few days in a hospital with pneumonia can just suck your emergency fund and send you into debtland really fast.
I really don’t want to comment on your personal life, since I know nothing about it, but please, don’t write things like the divorce being in the best interest for both of you anymore. It’s your desire to divorce, not Kris’ and you are doing what is in your best interest, not hers. You may think otherwise, but her best interest is to stay with you per your words.
All the best.
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How can it possibly be in Kris’ best interest to stay with someone who no longer wants to stay with her?
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Because j.D. himself said Kris didn’t want to divorce and didn’t agree with him when he said the divorce was the best thing for them.
So, I’m not saying it is the best thing for Kris, just that what Kris thinks is best for her, per his words, is staying with him. Assuming he knows what is best for her is patronizing.
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Wish you and Kris the best.
As if you didn’t get enough unsolicited advice I will just say that the vacation isn’t the best idea… from someone who tried to do it with an ex and it was miserable. If you truly want Kris in your life and respect her feelings, let her go on the trip with a friend and bow out gracefully. You don’t need to go and do you really want to spend a week or more with that much tension?
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Agree wholeheartedly. I have been in this situation and it is incredibly painful — sharing a trip but having the awkwardness of saying goodnight and going to separate rooms/beds. Being in an incredibly romantic location and feeling the heartache of the impending separation even more acutely.
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Don’t put the decision onto Kris!
Stand up and take the tough decision yourself.
You need to say “Kris, I’m not going on trip. I think it might not be the best idea. Here are the two tickets.” She can then go, not go, or go with a friend, as she chooses.
I’ve been there with an ex, and it’s a bad idea.
IMHO
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I totally agree with this! Don’t wait for her to reject your advances. As someone who was unwillingly left in a past relationship, I can tell you that she will probably NEVER decline an invitation from you nor reject a phone call, email or even a text. That does not mean that you have the right to use her as your security blanket if you have no intention of rekindling your relationship.
You’re leaving her. If you truly want to be able to be friends, you are going to have to first set some clear boundaries and give her space to move on – whether she wants it or you want it or not. I didn’t move on until my ex quit reaching out to me for a solid year. His early attempts to be friends left me in emotional tatters. After 5 years we can now meet as friends, but his reaching out periodically kept me hanging on in silent agony for 2-3 years at first. That’s time I could have been pursuing other relationships, but I truly thought he still wanted to be with me and just needed some space. He just reached out when he needed/wanted my shoulder though and even as he dated other people. Unfair, but I still couldn’t and wouldn’t turn him away. We both cared and care about each other, but just be aware that she may very well always retain some hope that you’ll come back to her – particularly if you leave your intentions as vague as they seem. It doesn’t mean that the trip is a good idea.
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After 10 years of marriage, I have been divorced for three years, separated for two before that. Like you and Kris, we had no kids. I was the one who wanted the divorce; he did not. However, we made a mutual decision to respect one another throughout the divorce process, and to honor the things that would always bond us in some way. We remain friends. We see each other a few times a year to catch up and hear family news, and we have been there for one another when we really needed someone. It can be done. Divorce does not need to be angry and bitter. It can be between two mature people who continue to wish the best for one another.
It may perhaps feel “confusing” for both for awhile, and yes, JD should be sensitive to sending mixed messages. On the other hand, a slower departure from one another offered my ex-husband and me a greater sense of security – that though we were moving foward apart from one another, we could still count on each other. And in some ways that was very helpful.
He is now in a new relationship (I am not) and I am glad that he’s getting the things that I couldn’t give to him, and yet we still have a connection that is important, but very much secondary in our lives.
I wish you all the best, JD and Kris.
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