Two months ago today, I asked my wife for a divorce.
I won’t be writing about the personal aspects of the divorce at Get Rich Slowly. In fact, other than some brief background at my personal site, I don’t intend to write it about it on the web at all. Kris and I are both emotional wrecks right now; the wounds are fresh and raw for both of us.
That said, I can no longer avoid sharing the truth with GRS readers. Too many of my financial decisions — present and future — are tied to the divorce. I’m hunting for health insurance, for instance, and I’ll have to re-evaluate my asset allocation. And ten days ago, I moved to a new apartment.
Living Small
For the past eight years, Kris and I have lived in an 1800-square-foot house on three-fifths of an acre. The place also includes a large garage, a workshop, and a couple of out-buildings. Plus, I’ve been leasing an office up the street. Despite working to reduce clutter in my life, I have a lot of Stuff. I’ve written a lot about wanting to simplify, about wanting to live in a smaller space, but I’ve been reluctant to take the necessary action.
Now, though, I’m moving. And because I’m moving, I feel obligated to practice what I preach. While part of me wants to find another house (Kris is keeping ours), I know it’s better to find a smaller space and to adjust my life to fit it. Thus, I’ve been looking to see how some of my friends manage to live not-so-big lives.
For instance, last fall Tammy — who writes about simplicity at Rowdy Kittens (and who shared a GRS reader story about the benefits of biking) — moved into a tiny house. The entire home is only 130 square feet! She and her husband had me over for dinner recently, and I shot some video of the space:
I loved Tammy and Logan’s tiny house. The floor plan is well-designed and functional. Still, I’m not ready to live that small just yet.
Instead, I opted to rent an apartment.
The Apartment
While most folks were spending Thanksgiving week, well, giving thanks, I was hunting for apartments. Some might consider going from house to apartment a step backward. I don’t mind. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, I actually believe renting can be a great choice for the right person. In this case, I think I’m the right person.
While searching for a place to live, I tried to take a lot of things into account. Price was important, obviously, but so was the age of the place, the layout, and, especially, the location. Over the past five years, I’ve come to place a premium on walkable neighborhoods, and I know I wanted an apartment with a high walk score.
I found a place I liked in a good location near downtown Portland — the biggest drawback is that it’s right next to a donut shop (danger! danger!) — and signed a lease. But then I started to worry that I was paying too much. By comparing notes with other people, I’ve since decided that while I’m not getting a bargain, my rent is reasonable.
Best of all, the apartment has a walk score of 88 (very walkable) and a transit score of 73 (excellent transit). And because I’m an avid walker, I can reach neighborhoods that the Walk Score app doesn’t consider. (As a comparison, our house has a walk score of 49, meaning car-dependent, and a transit score of 32, which means it has some transit.)
I’ve been in my new place for ten days now, and I like it — but it doesn’t feel like home. Still, I’m trying to make the most of these 705 square feet. Instead of just talking about how much I want to cut back on clutter, I’ve been faced with tough decisions every day. Which books do I keep? Which comics? How many pairs of shoes? How many jackets? Do I really need (or want) my records and record player?
By making judicious choices (and with the help of some new furniture from Ikea), I think I’ve reached a good balance. My new place contains the things I need — but it’s not filled with a lot of clutter and junk. It’s my hope that this will continue for the foreseeable future.
Fear of the Future
Now that I have a place to live — and now that I’m mostly unpacked — there are other problems to tackle as a result of the divorce.
For one, how do I handle health insurance? For eighteen years, I’ve been on Kris’ policy. Not anymore. After the divorce is final, I have only a few weeks (or maybe even just a few days) before my coverage with her carrier lapses. I’m the sort of guy who might risk going without health insurance for a few months or years, but Kris won’t have it. “We are not getting a divorce until you can prove to me that you have health insurance,” she told me the other day.
Meanwhile, what do I do about my office? Does it make sense to continue to rent that space? Should I find someplace closer? More importantly, what about day-to-day stuff like laundry and groceries. Obviously, I’m capable of handling these chores on my own, but due to the division of labor within our marriage, I’ve always relied on Kris to handle most of these chores. Now I’m going to have to budget for food, plan meals, and buy supplies on my own.
Kris has lots of questions about the future too. She’s still in the house, after all. How will she handle the yard work? Who’s going to take care of her car? And so on. But she too is capable of handling these things on her own. Besides, we both agree that figuring out the chores is inconsequential to figuring out the big stuff, the emotional stuff.
For now, Kris and I are still in constant contact. We had dinner Friday night, I drove by the house yesterday, and we’ll have dinner together tomorrow night. Plus, we still plan to share a vacation to Argentina in a few weeks. If one of us gets into trouble, the other will be there to help. Our marriage may be ending, but our friendship isn’t.
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Hi JD,
Sorry to hear about this situation, however I’m sure you guys will do fine financially and emotionally.
Please let me know if there’s anything I can help you out with.
Regards,
Sam
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I am so so sorry.
Regarding health insurance, I’m pretty sure that divorce is a qualifying event under COBRA. You should be able to continue for 36 months.
I am also self-employed in Portland, and have an individual plan. All of the major players in town have their rates online. If you need help evaluating cost vs benefits of the various health plans, I am happy to offer my assistance. It is what I do for a living.
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My house has a walk score of 8. I was surprised it scored that high since I live on a farm in rural NH.
(I have no opinion about your divorce.)
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I’m sorry that you two are going through this, but loving the ideas about tiny houses. both my dad and one of my closest friends have been working on tiny houses over the past several years (the friend’s house, up near Mt. Tabor, was a converted former garage, built for his mother-in-law; my dad’s is in progress out off Hwy 26 near the coast, built for a renter). I think you should really put a lot of thought into the idea of buying one — say, 300-400 square feet or so — when your lease is up. I agree with the “former New Yorker” on the hugeness of 705 square feet. and as a fellow clutterer, the concept of moving into a new space and being able to control what I bring in is intoxicating! (not happening, given my three delightful boys, but still heady)
and I second the comment about Blue Cross’ personal health care plans — I’d used an insurance broker for my small company before going it on my own, and that was her recommendation. of all the available options, that one was the best value. You also might want to check out self-employment/small business risk pools.
I hope you’re able to sleep, eventually. I can’t imagine how hard it would be to handle a very emotional time on so little sleep (well, I can imagine it, but the only time it happened to me was when my babies were tiny and I had the benefit of oxytocin!). Good luck.
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I can’t say I’m surprised at the news and I wish you and Kris well. I’ve been through it too about 8 years ago and it was as amicable as it gets, but it’s still hard.
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I’m very sorry to hear this, but not surprised.
As far as health insurance goes, Kris is right. Do not try to go a few months without insurance. You may be super healthy, but catastrophic medical events have a way of happening during uninsured periods.
Most health insurance is pre-paid, so it’s likely that your coverage will end on the last day of the month your divorce is finalized, but laws vary by state so consult with Kris’s benefits manager. Unless you have a very expensive medical condition, buying your own insurance will probably be much, much cheaper than COBRA.
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The one and only time in my life that I was severely injured just happened to occur during the one and only time in my life when I was “in between insurance plans”. Seriously, do not chance it. It is very expensive and very stressful.
So very sorry to hear of the breakup of your marriage. I wish for an uplifting future for each of you!
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Just like Cath, during a window of being “in-between” health insurance plans my appendix burst… Sh@t happens. Now that I do have health insurance, I am never sick.
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I don’t have any financial advice, but I do have something to say as the child of divorced parents.
I tell people all the time – my parents divorce is better than some people’s marriages. Their current relationship is better than their marriage was (except for the really early years). There wasn’t violence or anything like that. Just two people who love each other but don’t interact well as a married couple.
It’s different for them because they had kids but they also both decided to work on their relationship and have a good divorce.
And it happened, not in the first month or first years but it happened.
I’ve even had people surprised that my parents are divorced because they get a long so well, and also ask me if I wish they would get back together.
I don’t want them back together. They get along because they are divorced, not in spite of it.
My parents love each other and care for each other, but they also frustrate and exasperate each other and just generally get along better when they don’t have to live with each other see each other every day. Or have to run their lives jointly.
It happens.
I don’t think divorce is a moral failing or a sign of not really caring or being committed to each other.
I’m glad I grew up with my parents divorced rather than growing up with parents that didn’t like each other and didn’t get along.
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+1
My parents had a terrible divorce, but it was still better than their marriage; and now they both have great, long, happy, peaceful second marriages.
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I had the opposite experience as this. My parents had (what we thought was) a terrible marriage. They fought, they slept in separate bedrooms. As their children, we always encouraged them to divorce. What did we know?? They finally did when I was 18 and my siblings were 16 and 14. Man oh man, that was (and still is) the worst. Their bad marriage was so much better then what they have now.
Then, my mom managed the money and my dad hated it because he couldn’t buy what he wanted. Now, my dad has no money because he can’t manage it (and never could, which was why mom did it.) He sells pot to pay his rent, lives on ramen, and is inches away from bankruptcy (not the first one, either).
Then, my mom was unhappy coming home to a man she wasn’t attracted to and didn’t love. Now, after several awful boyfriends, my mom is emotionally broken and terribly lonely. She is fed up with dating, but the only person she felt comfortable living with was my dad. He couldn’t be the perfect husband for her, but he was there to help her through her clinical depression. Now, she comes home to an empty house.
They disagreed on religion. Now, both have lost their faith.
My parents were miserable when they were together, but they are both SO MUCH MORE miserable now. Yes, they were more like roommates than spouses, and they should have stayed that way. They thought that divorce would make them happy and free, but it has only made them lonely, unhappy, and broke.
Edit: I know Kris and JD don’t have kids, so this is purely in response to the previous poster and not to the original post.
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To paraphrase Tolstoy every unhappy family is unhappy in their own way.
Kris: You have my heartfelt support I can’t imagine the pain if my husband of ten years were to drop something like this on me.
JD: I sincerely hope that their is a lot more to your decision than the selfish comments you have made occasionally in the past several months – where many commenters told you to be careful and value your marriage. Remember that Kris stood by you as you made years as foolish finical decisions and that she is one smart lady. Her opinion on this should be valued.
That said unless you have decided that you truly do not want a marriage with her hold off on legal proceedings and work with trial separation first. It is cheaper and easier to undo if/when you decide that you made a huge mistake.
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Seems that over the 4 or 5 years that I’ve been reading this blog, J.D has really forgotten where he came from.
Thoughtful posts from the owner of the blog have been replaced by trash from “staff writers” who work for this now corporate owned blog while J.D. spends his time doing other things (fine with me, but at least don’t pretend to be the same person who could actually somewhat relate to the readers).
Now it seems that getting rid of the spouse is the next step in the transformation.
I don’t think I’ve seen a more disappointing transformation in all my life.
As of 1-16-2012, I’m no longer a fan of GRS. It’s been a long time coming, really. Things have changed a lot around here, and it seems, even more so than I ever could have imagined.
Adios.
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What a slap in the face, wow! I’m so glad your life is perfect. Good luck to you!
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My life is far from perfect, and that is the point.
But last time I checked, most marriage vows say things “for richer for poorer, sickness and in health, till death do us part, etc.”
I’ve never seen marriage vows that end with “unless I just don’t want to be married to you anymore, or unless I sell my blog for millions of dollars and decide to move out and do whatever I want now”.
Someone said this above, and it deserves repeating. Kris supported JD through years of terrible financial decisions, and now after years of digging out, it seems as though JD has arrived in a very solid place financially. However, is he sticking around to enjoy the fruits of labor with Kris? Nope.
It’s sad, and I really don’t know the situation, but almost all couples change as they age. That’s not really an excuse to just give up.
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I feel like JD’s response to this comment is a cop out. To say you’re not going to take Bogey’s advice simply because he’s 27 and you’ve been in a relationship for 23 years seems to be poor reasoning.
*Note, I’m not commenting on whether any advice given by Bogey or anyone else is good or bad. I’m just saying that it may be possible for a 27-year-old to give advice that should be considered.
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Ultimately what I really want from this blog are ideas I can take and apply in my own life — so I’m going to keep reading. But comments like JD’s response in #180 above certainly make me more skeptical about him and his own advice. Perhaps he doesn’t really mean that and he blurted it out and now regrets it, which we all do. But I’m usually pretty leary of someone who takes the approach of “I’m not going to learn anything from XX because he is YY.”
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For the record, yes, I am 27 years old.
I’ve also been with my wife for 10 years, married for 4 of those years preceded by dating her for 6 years (during high school and college).
Perhaps I know a little something about relationships.
I love it when people write me off as being “only 27″…
That allows me to sneak up on people and become VP of a large bank at age 26 while personally managing over 35% of the bank’s earning assets by myself.
Sometimes us young folks know a thing or 2…just saying.
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AFter this news and the “recent sale”, i am never going to log onto this blog ever again. Good riddance.
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I used to look forward to your posts. Unfortunately, I am un-bookmarking you. Do you have any idea the life sentence you are giving your children, your wife and yourself? I do–I have personally lived it. Someone who doesn’t see how foolish divorce is cannot be too smart financially. Unless there is physical abuse going on, there is just no reason to blow apart your family — especially if it for the sake of your personal “happiness.” And check out the stats on second marriages. They are horrible. Sorry I can’t support your site anymore.
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Just FYI: J.D. and Kris don’t have any kids.
You can choose to support the site or not. But you cannot make pronouncements like “there is just no reason” for divorce absent physical abuse.
As someone who has also “lived it” — both as a teen whose parents split up and as a woman who filed for divorce after a couple of decades of marriage — I wonder how you or anyone else can presume to know whether or not J.D.’s “reason” is legitimate.
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Best wishes to both of you. Meanwhile, don’t be too hasty to throw anything out simply because space is an issue. You’re likely to make rash decisions and, a year from now, you’ll end up wishing you’d kept certain things. If possible, store the overage for at least a few months, and then review it all again with a clear head and see what you really CAN do without and what you’re happy you still have.
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I’ll echo the sentiments of others here. I’m sure this is a difficult time.
On another note: thanks for the cool video! I’m a big fan of the Not So Big House book series, and this would definitely fit.
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I got a walk score of 23 and only 3 places on the list either A) still exist and B) are what they think it is. For example they cited the distribution of a book company’s warehouse as a bookstore. They also picked up on an ice cream parlor that is not nor ever actually existed. Perhaps someone registered the business but it never got off the ground. I also have doubts the place labeled “sell your stuff @craigslist” is a grocery store.
Therefore I would put a caveat that anyone actually using this when moving do make sure to actually check out and make sure these places exist or are valid in person that’s for sure.
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and I can’t believe all the comments about “feeling sorry” for you! You are the initiator and yet you also want to continue to put Kris through the hell of dinners and a vacation with you?!!
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Stop acting stupid JD – “not forcing Kris to do anything”. Most probably she looks at time with you as a chance to change your mind. If you’re set on divorcing her, then don’t give her false hope. Just coincidental you’re leaving now when you’re successful? I put the chances at near zero you’d be dumping her if your were broke, fat and struggling.
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I’m so sorry to hear your news, J.D. I wish the best for you and Kris.
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This is the opinion of a total stranger, and you can ban me from commenting in the future if you like, but: You’ve mentioned before you have an obsessive personality (I do too) and get very invested in whatever you’re doing at the moment to the exclusion of other things. I understand this, but I suspect you might have a real tendancy to overvalue what could be over what is — meaning, I think you might be entraced by what your life could be if you were single to a degree that you can’t see what you’ll be missing out on without Kris.
I don’t know you personally, but I sense that you might regret leaving in a few years when you’ve become bored with travel and flexibility and singleness (or fun new relationships) and realize you miss the true love, commitment, and stability Kris offered you. And, if she’s done right by herself, she won’t just be waiting there to take you back if that does happen.
It’s not fair to remain friends with her. You’re stringing her along. You married her – you promised you’d stay with her until you died. If you break that promise, you don’t deserve to have all the benefits of her friendship without the responsibilities of being her partner for life.
There’s a million cliches about exactly this kind of situation — the grass is always greener, “freedom, well that’s just some people talking, your prison is walking through this world all alone”, etc. etc. I think you’re giving up something tremendously valuable here to search for the fountain of youth.
And you’re also being selfish. Life isn’t just about you and whether you’re having a good time and living out your dreams of the moment. It’s also about fulfilling your promises to other people. Again, block me from commenting in the future if you wish — this stranger simply suspects you’re making a huge mistake.
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I went to your other blog and read the short entry about this awful news, and the thing that struck me hardest, after the gut-busting bitterness of Kris’ remark about clutter, was your quotation from Tennyson’s “Ulysses,” which you have taken as your motto.
When I was in high school, that was my favorite poem. It seemed to me to express the brave spirit of an independent adventurer, being true to himself even in his old age, venturing courageously out onto the sea once more, inspiring others to join him.
Then I got to college and learned that Tennyson’s inspiration was the figure of Ulysses as he appears in Dante’s *Inferno.* Dante was a very clever fellow, who populated hell with a mix of real and imaginary figures — some of them were Florentine politicians or real people who had insulted him, for example, so he clearly had some fun planning his revenge. But no matter what else they might have done, the inhabitants of Dante’s Hell all have one thing in common: they didn’t figure out the mistakes they were making in life, over and over again. In Hell, they are doomed to repeat them for eternity. (Forget brimstone and pitchforks. That’s *real* suffering.)
Reading Dante made me look at Tennyson’s poem with new eyes. It’s hard for me to tell for sure whether Tennyson invites us to condemn Ulysses as clearly as Dante does. But I can’t help seeing now that Ulysses is utterly dismissive of his immediate family: he feels he is “matched with an aged wife” by a “still hearth,” among “barren crags.” (Remember, this is Penelope, who faithfully waited twenty years for him to come home, cleverly faking out the suitors who circled her like vultures.) He backhandedly belittles his son by not considering him worthy enough to accompany him on this final grand journey: Telemachus is “centred in the sphere/of common duties,” prudent, fit for the hard, unglamorous work of governing a brutish people, a good enough son to worship his father’s gods — but he’s not invited along. Ulysses resents his people for not recognizing how great he is: they “hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me.” And he’s really stuck on the vision of his own history as a famous traveler with a lot of status:
I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
Much have I seen and known; cities of men
And manners, climates, councils, governments,
Myself not least, but honoured of them all…
So I’m left with a very mixed picture. Is Ulysses valiant to keep pushing himself, even as a very old man? Is he an inspiring speaker? Yes. Is he a romantic figure? Absolutely. But is he a model to follow?
I don’t know.
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I am very sorry to hear this JD, though like some others, I am not totally surprised. I also hope that you don’t dwell too much on the negative comments.
I obviously don’t know you personally, and after several years of reading GRS, I only know you through your writings. I hope things work out for you AND Kris, and would only caution you not to rush. Your decisions always seem to be VERY thought out, but sometimes rather quickly arrived at in terms of time sitting on the decision. I hope that you take some time before making everything final, and that you and Kris can come to a place where you are both happy with the outcomes.
Good luck to you both.
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@Christine–
JD and Kris don’t have any children.
Again, as the child of divorced parents I’m GLAD they didn’t try to stay together for “the sake of the children” or because “divorce is a life sentence”. My Dad wanted the divorce but both my parents are happier now and get along better and like each other better than when they were married.
I know a few people whose parents stayed together because “divorce is wrong” and “they had an obligation to their children.” Their children were miserable. They grew up in a house where their parents didn’t like each other, show affection to each other, didn’t want to be around each other. Their parents didn’t fight in front of them but my friends weren’t dumb, they knew their parents were unhappy.
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Oh, that sucks. Divorce is awful. Apartment living in Portland, though, is exciting. I’m moving from St Johns to Ladd’s. Exploring new walkable neighborhoods will be fun. Just remember to be nice even when you don’t want to.
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You both seem to still care about each other very deeply. Re-visit your reasons for asking for a divorce again. Do both of you a favor and sit Kris down and tell her exactly what your thought pattern was and why you feel you want a divorce beause: 1) She deserves to know and 2) By saying it out loud, you both may realize that your reasons for it may not be valid or you may have had pre-conceived notions. Maybe neither is true, but do this anyway. It can’t hurt.
One of the biggest reasons people get divorced is because of unmet expectations that are NEVER verbalized. For example, maybe you feel your partner should do X but she doesn’t; you never mentioned it, so it is never done which makes you resentful. Get it all out in the open.
I have experienced a divorce once, but it was because of an abusive relationship; there WAS no fixing it or any other way out. As much as I was the one to initiate the divorce, I was still devastated and heartbroken. I wish you both the best.
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JD and Kris
Sad! So sorry for this new crisis in your life. Feel I know the two of you, even though we haven’t met or even talked to each other. In my eighth decade, have been reading and learning from your GRS posts and comments for several years. Wish the very best to both of you. And JD, sure hope Kris will be sharing food related posts from time to time. Limited income and frugality go hand in hand and GRS fills the bill.
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I’m sorry to hear of this – we have dear friends also going through this process right now and it’s hard, regardless of reasons or anything else.
I hope you can be amicable about your cats and your goods.
I do want to point out one thing that hasn’t been touched on. If you divorce this year, your taxes will be “single” for 2012 – for the whole year. So as a self-employeed person, make sure to start doing that with your quarterly taxes so you won’t get hit with a big bill or fine.
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I’m so sorry to hear about your current situation and nothing but healing and happiness in the future. My husband and I have been separated for quite awhile now and have finally come to terms with the fact that we will divorce. I also downsized from a house to an apartment and while it was quite the change at first, I’ve really come to love it and the clutter-free mentality it has given me. Good luck.
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JD-
I think it is so amazing that you and Kris are still remaining friends. I have so many friends that are envious of my parents friendship after divorce, in fact most people who just meet them think they are still married! I’m sure this will make the transition a lot more pleasant. And I’m happy to know the foundation to marriage still starts and ends with friendship, and glad you are able to hold on to that aspect.
Good luck with everything!
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Virtual hugs to Kris and you.
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Strangely enough, I kind of felt this coming. She hadn’t been present in the blog for awhile (by you mentioning her or otherwise) and I felt with your recent wanderlust, something was amiss. Not that wanderlust leads to divorce, but the tone of the blog felt like something wasn’t right.
I’m glad your friendship remains during this very hard time. That’s an important asset to cherish.
Best of luck to you both.
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Maybe you should change the name of your blog from Get Rich Slowly to Get Selfish Quickly!
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Was so shocked and sad to see this news. I do hope that whatever the outcome it is the best possible for both parties. Divorce is pretty tough on the finances and I’m sure there will be some good posts to come (trying to find a silver lining).
For basic health insurance, there’s the Freelancer’s Union. I think they operate in Oregon. There are likely better options out there, but they might be able to provide a modestly priced stopgap.
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It’s the highest compliment I can pay you, J.D., that I was saddened to hear of the divorce of two strangers on the internet. I think that says a lot about how well and authentically you write on this blog.
Best of luck to both of you getting through this.
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JD, I’m sorry to read of your change in circumstances. Change, whether good or bad, is often challenging. I wish you all the best and know that usually your own sense of self is better for the change. My thoughts are with you.
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I’m also sorry to read this, J.D. — but more than anything, I appreciate your willingness to be honest with your readership. That says a lot about your trustworthiness — and honesty on your website.
Thank you.
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I’m so sorry to hear this, JD, but I hope it works out to be better for both of you.
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I heard someone say once that you should have to work your way out of a marriage (barring abuse). That the vows you made going in require that you exhaust all reasonable effort at working things out.
I don’t know your situation, and perhaps you and Kris have already done this. But if you haven’t, I’d urge you to at least give counseling a try. I have seen it save marriages that I didn’t think would survive, and even if it didn’t for your marriage, at least you both would have a better idea what you really want moving forward with your life as singles.
My thoughts are with you both during the times ahead.
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Like you and Kris, my husband and I come from very different financial philosophies; like yours our marriage has been unconventional in some ways (separate finances, no kids). I have looked to you and to the creative solutions you have come up with in your time together. No one I know has a marriage like ours; yours was the closest.
I can’t help but lose a little faith in our future.
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I’m so sorry for what you are both going through. I went through a divorce initiated by my husband, so I especially feel for Kris. I am very hesitant to voice my opinion, since I don’t know either of you. But if Kris was my friend, I would caution her about spending a lot of time with you. She needs to move on, and I don’t mean move on to another man. She needs to build a life without JD in it, and spending time with you on a regular basis could make that difficult.
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I absolutely agree. I had an ex from a very long-term relationship who initiated the break-up, then wanted to remain friends. Despite knowing intellectually that we would never get back together, every time we caught up with one another stirred up hope. It was a crushing cycle for nearly two years, when I decided to (politely) cut him out of my life. I realized later on that he was checking up on me to satisfy his own desire to feel like the “good guy” (even if he didn’t realize it himself at the time). While I liked (and sought out) meeting up with him and being “friends”, I would have been much more mentally stable and have been able to move on much more quickly had we not tried to “remain friends”.
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I’m sorry to hear about this development in your life – and to read the nasty comments people have left for you!
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JD,
I’ve been writing and deleting posts all day because I didn’t want to come across as “judgmental” or what not. It’s not politically correct, etc. But I can’t give you trite well wishes either. I mean, this has been bugging me all day and I need to let it come out.
Sure, okay, as Donna said somewhere, none of us has the right to judge you, but a) you’re a public figure, unfortunately, and b) you’ve given advice to couples in the past. So it’s not like we’re butting into your life; you put your life up on a blog, so it’s up for judgment.
Besides– some of us believe in judgment. I mean, without judgment, what are we? Vegetables? We judge all the time: is this a good investment? Is this good food? Is this the right action? Do these clothes fit me? When we follow GRS it’s because we “judge” it to be a worthy publication. When we refuse to ever eat again at some greasespoon it’s because we “judge” it to be not worth patronizing. Judging comes with the territory of being rational animals. Instead of “judge lest not ye be judged” I prefer “judge and prepare to be judged” (so I’m okay if people want to call me an ass in response to this comment).
I know I am outside a certain mainstream when I advocate this path, and I’m not looking for people to agree with me, but I don’t believe that everything goes and we just need to let people jump to their deaths if they wish to do so. I know you’re an advocate of “do what works for you” and I believe the same… but only to a point. If someone thinks that drinking a gallon of gasoline works for them, I feel the moral obligation to say “hey there, wait a minute, you fool…”
So I am not writing to you as your disgruntled reader, but as an online friend of sorts. Like it or not, this blog and the information that appears on it are a part of my daily existence, so it’s hard to take this as an impartial observer. And if you were my friend in “real” life I’d probably say the same thing I’m saying here– I’ve actually done it before, and it’s lost me a friendship to speak my mind before in a similar situation, but I have to operate on principle and I have no regrets. So here it goes. Pretend we’re in a bar after a couple of pints, and you can punch me in the face afterwards if you want, but I have to say this:
You damn stupid fool. Are you nuts? You’re dreaming, and you need to wake up. You’ve been dreaming for a while– of…
‘world domination” and “awesomeness” and… childish crap. You need a frikkin boot to the head.
If you think you’re going to find someone better than Kris in Neverland, you’re completely nuts. I mean, who except a wonderful human being would refuse you a divorce until you get health insurance while you jump around the world like some kind of internet puer aeternus? Some hot girl half your age may keep you entertained for a while, make you feel “young again” (good luck with that), but can she replace your family?
Getting rid of the comic books is not enough. I hope you grow up and patch things up with your lady before you your family is FUBARd. Yes, you probably need to spend 3 months in a cabin in the woods, or take a long walkabout, or become a volunteer firefighter, and yes, you’ll probably need to fight for some change in your marriage if it’s ever going to work again, and yes, people maybe are not hardwired for monogamy and so it takes hard work to keep the flame, but nothing is going to make you 19 years old again, and if you feel you do maybe it’s time for therapy.
I get that you probably have your head full of world domination awesomeness right now, especially living in Portlandia and all, and maybe you’re thinking that what +you’re doing is “being honest with your feelings” at the moment, but I’d urge you to keep your situation at the separation level for a moment and see if after some months you realize this was the bonehead move of a lifetime.
It’s taken me many years of messing up and burning a path of destruction behind me to learn this, which I hope you don’t have to learn the hard way: A wife is not a girlfriend. Romance is an overrated mirage and everyone eventually farts in bed. Family is priceless and it’s forever. Match.com is not the singles paradise they make you believe in the commercials. Get some therapy–from a pro, not from an internet guru. And watch out for social diseases.
–
Alright man, maybe I am completely off the mark and maybe people here will pelt me with rotten eggs and call me names for what I’ve said, tell me I have no right, that I’m making assumptions and projecting issues, but there, I’ve said my piece, and my wife loves me in spite of the disapproval of strangers, and I wish you well, I really do, and by this I mean I hope you wake the hell up and flee Circe before she turns you into a pig, lost traveler. I’m judging, but I’m not condemning, all I hope is that my “judgment” maybe illuminates something in your situation.
And now you can punch me in the face if you want.
Best wishes.
Your friend,
El Nerdo
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It is about time someone said it like it is. Having read the blog for several years, I thing I have at least some insight. First off, Kris stood by JD when he was depressed at the box factory, in debt, overweight, disorganized and generally unsuccessful. By the luck of good timing and, admittedly, hard work, JD entered the burgeoning world of personal finance blogging at just the right time and created a very successful enterprise. Fast forward to the present time, JD has sold his blog for who knows how much $$ and uses guest posters frequently and is somewhat detached from the blog. He has lost weight, is financially well off and has been bitten by the travel bug which helps him discover himself. What better time than now to ditch the woman who stood by you when you were a nobody going nowhere?
This is all too common and unfortunate. All of JD’s faithful readers and staunch supporters should give pause to think about the agony Kris is enduring at the present time so that JD can chase his dream of running barefoot in the rainforest. As long as we are “being real”, as it were, I hope that Kris reads this comment because if she is I would advise her to hold her head high and recognize that she is a wonderful and worthy person. Secondly, after reading the article on JD’s other website, I would strongly encourage her to quickly dispatch the notion that the two of you should work this divorce out at the kitchen table. Do not allow JD to convince you this is in your best interest. As I see it, you have a long term marriage during which your husband has created an extremely successful personal finance blog, is an accomplished author and authority in the area of personal finance. I am not suggesting you pull out the heavy artillery and make your divorce a war of the roses, however, you are no doubt entitled to and rightfully deserve much more than you may think. See a good divorce lawyer. It will be worth it. You don’t have to force JD to read his comic books by candlelight, but you should know your rights.
Also, don’t torture yourself by going on this trip with him. It is only designed to make JD feel like the divorce isn’t such a bad thing. “See, we can even go on a trip together.” The trip is all about him, not you.
I know my comments are harsh. I am not a touchy feely type. What JD is doing is wrong and deep down inside, all of the commenters know it, whether they will state it publicly or not.
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I could not agree with this post or the one above more. When I guy tells me he’s doing what he thinks is best for both of us, run and hide. The Truth is here that Kris is getting the shaft, after she has stuck by through thick and thin. Absolutely unbelievable. A middle aged boy and he’s need to find himself…….what will you do in a couple years I wonder, when you want to go back to the staus quo and the woman wont have you.
Time to grow up already.
sigh.
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Why do you people pretend you know what’s going on in their lives? He hasn’t given us the details, but should he? One of them could be gay, want children, are no longer intimate sexually, can have an uncontrollable, hot (but non-violent) temper, have a mental illness that is not treatable and that person is impossible to live with – anything. Don’t put words, thoughts and intentions in his mouth.
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I hadn’t heard that JD had sold the site. If that’s true, I hope Kris gets a large settlement and a good attorney.
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Yes.
Good attorneys on both sides, for the money, property, etc – and good psychologists too, so they’re not stuck with only friends/family to talk to, because those people are all invested in the marriage.
That leaves both people free to deal together with just the emotional parts, which is a big enough project for any two people.
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J.D., by your responses to comments, you seem to be coming to realize that even though Kris may want all the “contact” and “friendship” you can give her, that it is not fair or right to string her along in that way, as she is likely too stunned and wanting to deny reality to see this for herself.
Likewise, I would also suggest that it is not ethical for you to accept her “okay” with your doing a “kitchen table” divorce where she says what she wants financially and you give it to her. If she’s like most people who have this thrust on her, she’s not in a position to realistically assess what she wants–she just wants this not to be happening. Nor are either of you likely to know what she legally deserves. As the initiator, the ethical thing to do would be to insist that she get legal representation to serve her interests. (If you are honest about wanting to continue a friendship with her, this will also make that more likely as it mitigates and depersonalizes any nagging doubts about unfairness). While IMO Lowdown’s post is extreme and frames it in more combative terms than I would, your “golly-gee, I’m trying to be as nice as I can doing everything she wants in this divorce” stance comes off as blithely lacking self-awareness,maturity, and insight into how her emotions may impair her decision-making. I see your stance as putting you in a position where you may inadvertently be taking advantage of her being a supportive, good sport. (The “I got my divorce for $75″ comments also make less sense when there’s been a rapid growth in assets and earning potential for the initiator in recent history, following a long history of poor financial choices).
And, Kris, if you are reading this, it is no way intended to be a personal comment on your decision-making capacity. The little evidence I have suggests you are level-headed. This is situational and you are at a point where you are likely to be not thinking clearly yet are thrust into needing to make decisions that will affect your life. Depersonalize that process and get a mediator.
(And, no, I’m not a lawyer.)
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El Nerdo, thanks for this.
I can’t help but note that JD avowed on the linked personal site that cheating is not involved…yet he made no such declaration on this site. I think there are underwater obstacles here that JD is trying to distance himself from, so he can say…”When I asked Kris for a divorce, I hadn’t yet cheated. So I haven’t lied.”
Sophistry and self-deception, I suspect. I hope I’m wrong…
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Jesus H Christ! People watch too much TV. This isn’t an ep of your favourite series, the screenwriters aren’t giving you hints to help you understand what’s happened.
Grow up.
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As I said, I hope I’m wrong. And with an explicit disavowal from JD, I’ll presume I am.
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I’m sorry, but I firmly believe that no one jumps out of an 18-year marriage without a soft place to land.
Maybe he hasn’t cheated yet (or hasn’t done anything he *considers* cheating), but I just don’t buy the “don’t have my eye on anyone else”.
I don’t expect to read about it here or in his blog, but I give it 6 months before he unveils a romance that just “happened”, but it was “definitely after the divorce”.
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I have read through most of the comments and have not read about many from people who have been ther and done that – long term. Sometimes things happen that truly show us the other person’s real interests and their heart.
Staying too long in a marriage can be the wrong thing to do. Even when children are involved it can be harmful to them.
I finally made the decision to divorce after 32 years of giving my husband the benefit of every doubt. I have never discussed the real reason I divorced. Not even with my children. It’s a private matter and all anyone needs to know is that the marriage, for whatever reason, is no longer workable.
Stick to your guns and keep personal things personal. That way you won’t end up hating each other nor losing friends because they feel as if they have to choose between you the two of you.
I can say that after 21 years of being single that I have a much better life than when I was married. I live in larger home with all the nicer things I wanted in a house but never had.
I have learned that I make a better single person that I did a married person. I feel that I have grown by living on my own. I’ve had my own business for the past 11 years and am doing well for and by myself. There are no limits placed on me so I can work as many hours as I need to.
The only drawback I can possibly see is that now that I’m in my 70′s, I don’t have anyone to grow old with someday – much later down the line when that time comes.
I can only say to you and to Kris both; there are as many perks to a divorce as there are pit falls. You both seem to know what you are doing and you must follow your heart. May God bless both of you!!!!
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When I read the “Big House, Little House” post, I kind of wondered if this was coming, but the news still makes me feel heavy-hearted (which is pretty much always how I feel when I hear of the dissolving of a marriage).
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I for one will be following this saga as it unfolds but good to hear you’re doing ok. Wish you both the best.
Dwight Anthony
Financially Elite Blog
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I’m sorry to hear about this. Thanks for sharing with us so that we can be with you while you get on with the next chapter in your life.
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I have benefitted from reading your blog at the very time I have architected my financial recovery from my own separation and subsequent divorce. I do feel a pull at my soul to comment here.
Lots of angles, judgements, advice, phantom needs to analyze. One central theme drives us to anger, spite and agression – The human condition teaches us that the sternest of words come from us when we are reminded of the very things that we despise about ourselves, when we see the hallmarks in others.
It tempts me, too. Have I been in this very same place, done this very same thing? Yes. Alas, my applied advice is only fit for a past me of which I lose recollection of moreso every day, I’m afraid.
Capital-T Time is the only thing that seems to hold any valid answers, I’m learning. Today is all we have within our grasp, with only a wish to receive tomorrow.
J.D. and Kris, whatever the outcome, progress in peace and grace today, listen to the winds of time as they brush your ears, they might change song many times in the coming months, this I would say, and only an open heart can hear them.
Namaste
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Quitter. Selfish freaking quitter. Yeah, yeah, we don’t know all the details, but that’s what this is… we can read between the lines. You are quitting.
Except this isn’t a job at a box company. This is your freaking wife, man.
I know the loss of one reader isn’t going to have an impact on you, but I can’t read a blog of someone I don’t respect. Enjoy your mid-life crisis.
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What is wrong with you? You act like JD told you that he kills puppies for fun in his free time. Over HALF of all marriages end in divorce. Most of the people you run into in a day have experienced divorce. Do you treat all of them like shit, too? You have no idea what’s going on. Maybe JD and Kris have been trying to save their marriage for years and it hasn’t worked. Maybe they haven’t slept together for 2 years or maybe they merely coexist and effectively don’t even have an intimate relationship anymore. Lots of marriages are a disaster and lots of people are unhappy in them. You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re making so many assumptions about JD’s life.
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Just to be nit-picky (and not because I don’t think the comment you replied to was awful – it was) the claim that over half of all marriages end in divorce is false. At one point the statistic almost reached 50%, but it has dropped down closer to 40% (and indeed, even that number is skewed because your likelihood of getting a divorce goes up with each divorce you have already had, so someone divorced once is much more likely to get divorced a second time, but someone who has never divorced in the first place is not actually 40% likely to have their marriage fail – the number is quite a bit lower).
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Like Amy points out the # of divorces is increased by the individuals with multiple marriages to their name. Divorce rate for 1st marriages is closer to 40%. 2nd, 3rd etc, marriages have higher divorce rates.
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So 40% of marriages end in divorce, not 50%.
Break out the music! Three cheers! All’s right with the world!
Have you ever heard the phrase “a distinction without a difference?”
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@Andrew There’s no need to be snippy. I agreed with the rest of the comment. But it DOES make a difference to some of us: the phrase “Over half” is very different from “approx 40%”, particularly when that number is on the decline. That doesn’t mean that everything is rainbows. Just trying to be accurate.
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And lets not forget – 100% of all divorces begin with marriage! (C’mon, we have to be able to laugh at ourselves!)
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I broke my own rule and came back to visit the site.
I humbly offer an apology for my post. It was out of my normal character to be so mean spirited.
Do I agree with the basic tenants of my original post? Yes
Do I agree with the attitude, and how I worded it? No
JD, please accept my apology. I still will not be a regular reader of your blog anymore, as I can’t support your actions, but my comments were childish.
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I’m so sorry to hear this. I had a similar experience, and I moved out of my broken marriage 2 years ago. I moved into a house that I was re-habbing… I downsized from a 2,000 sq ft house in suburbia to a 900 sq ft house deviod of walls, furniture, and flooring. I gave myself a week apart, living in stark nothingness, to see if that’s what I really wanted. When people at work commented that I seemed much happier that week (even though I had been sleeping on a plywood floor), I knew it was the right move.
Obviously, I learned a lot about getting by with minimal material possessions. Eating breakfast at a card table. Sleeping on a borrowed air mattress that had a slow leak. Going to the thrift store to buy a few plates and pieces of silverware. Wanting to meet friends at their house, so they wouldn’t see how I was living.
The divorce took 18 months to complete, and one thing that I didn’t anticipate was that over those 18 months, I managed to re-create an entire household full of “stuff”, and when the divorce finalized, I got another 1/2 house full of even more “stuff”. I’m now swimming in extra clothes, housewares, furniture, etc. I swear I wont have to buy work clothes for at least 5 years.
Some items I donated to the thrift store (paying it forward), some got sold in a garage sale.
Again, I’m so sorry about what you are going through. Know that there will be good days and there will be bad days.
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This is extremely sad news and I feel horrible for both of you. Having been through similar I can imagine how you’re suffering. I guess all I can really say is chin up: it will get better.
Peace.
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Hey, all. I’ve been reading the comments as they’ve come in today, and I’ve been approving them. I don’t think I routed any to “trash” (where I usually doom the comments that are off-base and nasty). When Kris got home from work, she read the comments too. She seems grateful for your support of her (and I am too).
I’m not going to try to justify my actions or to provide more details. You’re all free to judge me based on the information you have, but as some have noted, it’s incomplete information. I’m not going to share my entire private life on the web. If you don’t want to trust that I’m making an honorable decision, that’s fine. But I’m doing what I think is best. It’s not a rationalization; it’s the truth.
I’ll go back through and reply (in-line) to a handful of comments. I wish I could have done this earlier in the day, but I was busy with real life. Late replies will have to do.
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No offense JD but when you make this huge announcement to your readers they will have opinions, questions, concerns, etc.
To many long time readers, they feel “close” – its what happens when you’ve been reading someone for a long time. I wish you the best.
But if you didn’t want the judgments, questions, concerns, condolences then you shouldn’t have talked about it at GRS or at your personal blog.
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I commend you for your intention not to write about the personal aspects of your divorce and in that spirit, respectfully suggest you remove Kris’ quote from your personal site. Years from now it might seem like appropriate black humor, but right now when her hurt is so fresh it just seems heartless.
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JD – I never doubted you were running things past Kris, but that doesn’t mean putting her words into your story is the “right” thing to do, at least from this outsider’s perspective. I got a glimpse into the personal pain (and she was trying so hard to be brave and a good sport!) of a woman who seems to value her privacy, which she might not have wanted me (and others) to have had she been in a state of mind to really think about it. It’s a small thing perhaps in the overall scheme of things, but I’d just suggest you err on the side of overwhelming caution here.
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“We are not getting a divorce until you can prove to me that you have health insurance.”
Wow. Only a truly exceptional woman would say something like that during a time like this. I really hope you know what you’re doing, JD.
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JD I’ve loved your blog ever since I stumbled upon it. You being a public figure, people will judge you. Its part of being human.
Perhaps you should have kept the news to yourself?
Like the others have written, there have been signs in blog posts about how you and Kris have been wanting different things. I really admire how Kris stuck by you especially when you were spending money like crazy. And I was impressed that you got out of debt too.
I honestly would never stick by someone that had 30,000 in debt. NEVER. In fact money problems is the #1 reason for divorce. I’m surprised she stuck by you, oh man, she is a strong lady.
Like others have mentioned, it does seem that now life is good for you, that you want to ditch her. It does seem that way. I know we’re not supposed to judge but I really can’t help it.
Kris from what you’ve written about her, you made her sound like she had a good head on her shoulders, she sounds intelligent, she’s a saver, she stuck by you. She sounds like a good woman.
Dude she stuck by you through all of your debt!
She sounds very caring, she wants you to have health insurance, most women once they find out that the relationship is over, just want to kick their exes to the curb and find someone new, but no she is willing to keep you on the health insurance plan!!
I just don’t want you to make a mistake just because you think you’re better than Kris, because that’s what it sounds like, you think you’re better than her because you got out of debt, because you save, and because you travel.
But it seems that she put up with a lot of immature behavior from you for years. I know we’re not supposed to judge, but I can’t help it, people will have opinions, even when they’re doing their best to not judge. Its just hard because you were one of my favorite bloggers.
Honestly, I was envious of what you had with Kris and your life. You’re a writer, not stuck at a 9 to 5, had a nice wife, in a nice house, etc. I don’t think its self-improvement that’s the problem.
Just remember, traveling is nice, being healthy is nice, having savings and a nice house is all very nice. But its also nice to share all of that with someone. Look how many people are rich in Hollywood and have crappy relationships with their families and how many times they’ve been divorced.
I know its not nice of me to judge you but at the same time, I do feel like you’re throwing away a great relationship. But I guess people divorce for all sorts of reasons. Anyway I hope that Kris finds someone that will appreciate her, and hopefully you will too.
Maybe you don’t really know what you have. You keep talking about how you want a pastoral lifestyle, well why can’t you have that with Kris? Its your life, just don’t throw away the love of your life away.
You don’t want to be 88 years old at the nursing home, knowing that you threw away the love of your life.
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Longtime reader, although I skim the investment posts, because I really don’t want to be rich — just frugal. And why just frugal? Because my goal is contentment with what I have, not riches I don’t have.
This is the saddest news I’ve heard all year.
Since you’ve sought support from your readership, I’ll not pat you on the back and wish you the best like a bad friend, but tell you the truth, because it is what you need to hear, and because I wish I could have said it to the husbands of other friends I met too late: you are making the biggest mistake of your life. You have surrounded yourself with people who have given you lousy and self-defeating advice.
El Nerdo had one of the best and most thoughtful posts, and I agree with him (and several others) wholeheartedly. Divorce is denial of We in favor of Me. Kris has my sincerest sympathies.
Please, please, please go to counseling, even if it takes every dollar you have. Happiness is elusive — riches are nothing — but in contentment is great gain. And contentment isn’t getting everything you think you want, but choosing to be content with what you have.
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