This guest post from Aloysa is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes. You can read more from Aloysa at My Broken Coin.
For six years, I lied to my ex-husband about how much money I was making. Some people make up lies trying to build self-esteem. Those people lie “up”. I lied down, hiding how much money I made, and underestimating the work I was doing.
I didn’t do this for some malevolent purpose. In fact, I thought I was doing my ex-husband a favor. I tried to protect his ego and his self-worth. Unfortunately, as we all know no good deed goes unpunished.
Background
I was born far away from the United States. When I met my ex-husband, my homeland was going through some turbulent times. The Soviet Union was in ruins: The job market was unstable, food was expensive and in scarce supply. Our government was changing the national currency on what seemed to be a weekly basis. Stability and financial security were ideas long forgotten.
When we got married, my ex-husband was serving in the military, making good money. By the time I graduated from college, our country had transformed from a socialist state into a free-market, exploring and building capitalism.
It was then that the tables suddenly turned: My ex-husband left the military and ended up laying cement for a private construction firm. As a college graduate, I got an entry-level position with a small firm in the automobile industry. A year later, that small firm grew into one of the biggest wholesale trading firms in the country, propelling my career.
Then the marriage trouble started.
Protecting His Ego
My ex-husband was sincerely happy when I got my first huge promotion and my first salary increase. That first increase put my salary way above his. He seemed excited about more money flowing into the family. That didn’t last long.
First, he started to make snippy comments about my job during conversations with our friends and family. Later, I noticed that every time people asked me what I was doing for a living, he dismissively waved his hands and said something non-essential, trying to undermine my achievements.
I started to suspect that maybe his ego was hurt. Maybe the fact that I was becoming a successful career woman who was working more hours, and ultimately bringing more money home, was somehow diminishing his self-wroth. Maybe he felt that his role as a “breadwinner” was being taken from him.
I thought about it, I dwelled on it, and finally determined that it was all my fault. I decided that I was not going to disgrace my ex-husband’s sense of self-respect by announcing that I made a bonus that would allow us to renovate our small apartment.
It was the beginning of our end.
Easy Come, Easy Go
We were always supporting our relatives from both sides as much as we could. But when I started making more money, I was pressed to help the family of my ex-sister-in-law more than usual. The more I worked, the more I made, the more money was leaving our family and going into her household. Every bonus, every salary increase was viewed by my ex-husband as an additional source of support for his sister.
She was a stay-at-home mom with a stay-at-home alcoholic husband. Both seemed to conveniently live off our (well, my) money. I didn’t mind helping them, but constantly supporting them with every extra penny that we could made me feel that we were encouraging and sustaining her husband’s alcoholism.
Another major concern surfaced about the same time. Between our own expenses and helping their family, we weren’t able to save anything for ourselves. It didn’t matter how much both of us were bringing home. It was all gone by the end of the month. We had no savings, no emergency money, none of the financial security that both of us wanted.
How It All Unraveled
Over the years, I began to keep secret most of my pay increases and bonuses. I stashed away money, and I hid my purchases.
Did I feel guilty? Of course I did. But over time, you get used to lying, and it becomes your second identity. You live a life of lies, and you think that this is the way to live it.
It’s one of the things lies do to you. Everything you lie about works to replace moments, words, events from your life, until you cannot remember why any of it mattered. It takes so much energy to hold on to the lies that you lose your grip on what’s important.
And every lie is a relationship killer. Even a small lie, because eventually that small lie will become a big one.
Lies make you feel empty — and afterward, lonely too.
Why I Would Never Do It Again
You could say that I was young and naïve. I thought I could save a marriage built on lies. I call myself foolish. Foolishness is always best seen in retrospect.
Joint goals make a strong foundation to marriage, along with trust and understanding. Years later, after the divorce, I look back at our marriage and I have to admit that we didn’t have any common goals. We didn’t know where we wanted to go together, what we wanted to build.
Sometimes you have to accept that a notion of a “traditional relationship” is a fluid one. Roles can be reversed any time. Life can change on a dime. It shouldn’t matter who makes more money in the relationship. What should matter is having similar attitudes towards money.
No one should ever equate money to power in marriage. Marriage is a partnership, not a rivalry. If you can’t be happy for your partner’s success, then maybe it’s time to reconsider your relationship.
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You actually were smart to leave the marriage. I am a frugal wife married 30 years to a man that cannot handle money in any form. If he has an extra $5 in his hand, he’s itching to spend it. If there is over $100 in the checking account, he goes to ebay to start buying. I have had to fight for every investment or retirement dollar set aside for future needs. And yes, I earn more than he does and I lie about it.
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Ac, it sounds like you feel completely stuck in your situation. I’m not sure that every lie completely ruins a relationship…but this sounds like you could be heading for trouble. When you have enough retirement money set aside for both of you and your husband doesn’t know where it came from, how do you think he might react? Is it worth having the conversation now, and maybe seeing a counselor to get to the root of his money issues?
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In this instance, the lies really seem to be a way of protecting the families finances. Yes, they are lies, but in this situation, it was the right financial move.
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Yeah, ditto. While “you were smart to leave the marriage” is pretty strong, the idea of lying about money maybe isn’t always wrong….
My father is hopeless with money, just hopeless. When I got him hooked watching Dave Ramsey on TV, he came up with ideas like “I got this credit card to use as an emergency fund,” and “you should buy yourself something nice with that bonus – haven’t you ever heard of paying yourself first?”
:-/
My mom tries much harder. First she started saving for an emergency fund in cash, in her bedroom. She neared $1,000…. until my dad got in there and spent most of it.
Now she gives the money to me, and i save it in an online account for her. My dad is totally unaware of it, and for that reason alone, it has remained mostly untouched. It is the only savings they have.
So, while my mom is glad that she and my dad are still together after 35+ years…. she also feels that they’re much better off by not telling him everything.
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Thank you for sharing this story about one aspect of money and relationships that is so difficult to bring out in the open. Also, I appreciate learning about the experience in Russia in the dramatic shift that took place there and how it affects the lives of people. As an American I feel like we need to understand how money issues like financial security as well as opportunity for jobs and job growth is an every changing dramatic shift in every nation and every home.
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As a former Soviet and a former wife who used to always make a substantially larger salary while married to my former husband, I can hear the pain in a traditional role distribution. We were both medical school students when we tied the knot, but he worked as an assistant scientist in a lab as a part time job, and I worked as a nurse in a hospital for a full time and half. We bought a co-op. Shortly after we (well, he, since I was rather happy being a Soviet, even though the country was collapsing on us as we knew it, and 6 months after I and the son followed) moved across the Big Pond. I came not speaking a word of English, he was, you guessed it, an assistant scientist. Another 6 month passed, and I got a similar position, and he went to graduate school (dropping his income to a stipend). He is extremely smart and there was a bright future, while I am a worker-bee and brought the bread to table, figuratively (my income grew as I moved to an industry job) and literally (as a traditional wife, I cooked and cleaned and raised children). He loved my salary increases as he put it “it allowed him to play with his science” indefinite. We also supported his family by sending money back home (while my family was actually helping us. He graduated in 3 years to PhD (I told you he is smart and hard-working) and chose a path of academic career. His salary stuck at the same level…ever since. Mine kept moving (plus as a former Soviet, living frugal had never been a burden, rather a norm). Eventually I was resented, although once I tried to quit working for a month, and then got re-hired part-time. He didn’t like me not getting full bacon. He didn’t like me getting full either. Eventually, for many other reasons along with resentfulness, we did get divorced. I finished a vocation school while working full time and raising those children, and now added a little (by choice only little at this time) side-kick income to my salary. His stays the same (for one reason or another his career path hasn’t worked well for him in academic position, and it is a bit but too late to move into pharmaceutical industry). He still resents my financial stability and ability to prioritize and allocate (what from a side looks like I am swimming in money while travel to do what I enjoy doing), and even tried to challenge his (reduced per my will) child support…
Long story, I know, and although I never lied about what I am making (nor am I making any extreme numbers), the traditional roles are often something that shakes families in this world, and we truly need to sit down with a partner (whether from across the border or here, in US) and chat. I am all for tradition and woman been a woman. I am also for a support to each of us, male or female, in a relationship, and a common goal. That honesty, in discussion and real feelings about the situation, is a foundation on any partnership, marriage or otherwise.
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THanks for sharing this. It was well said. I love this comment – Best of luck to you moving forward. You’ve done well, despite the odds, and I hope you continue to flourish!
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I had some time to think, and a conversation with my (American:)) husband and I’d like to bring some more clarity to my story. The point wasn’t that I was making more money, or worked harder. There is a valid point that when women complain of a man not making as much, there is rarely a solution, as in: does she now wants a husband to cook and clean and care for kids? change a job and make sure his salary is bigger? she should quit the big paycheck job? I think in my mind the importance is not on the amount each brings, but on the fact that if and when a guy for some reason (and often it is simply a career that doesn’t allow a bigger income, and if he is passionate about it, I will be (and was) the last person to ask to change it) is not the “main” breadwinner, he could simply acknowledge that his “weaker” partner is doing a housework, and may be pitch in at times (and, again, I’d be the last one to reverse the gender roles), say “thanks”, and do his “man” thing in the house, and most important, not complain and demean the woman for doing her share. Family means supporting and been equal, whichever each member of the family decide together their contribution is, money or otherwise. And never lie, it’s kind of a no-brainer. And talk until your mind screams mercy:)
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Olga, my compliments on your mastery of English. Idioms are always the tough part, but I am extremely impressed!
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Olga, I see this happening in the US in some couples today. Even though they say it’s fine that the woman earns more money, it hurts the man’s pride. This doesn’t happen in every case, but still too often. It sounds like you have a good attitude about making a secure life for you and your children. All the best to you!
Aloysa, thanks for your story. You are better off now, I’m sure. It’s too difficult to work so hard and have no financial security. It’s much better to have the fruits of your labor. Wishing you continued success!
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Dont you think that could be one of the reasons your husband is your ex now?
Not being honest about money issues with your partner.
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Maybe putting the security of his birth family (sister) over his chosen family had something to do with it, too.
Perfect example of what J.D. always says- money is about your mind/psychology as much as it is about math.
To the author – I admire your courage – in posting this story as well as in life. Good luck to you. I hope the commenters are nice today.
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She admits the part that’s her fault, in the story.
And it’s clearly both – his undermining his wife and prioritizing his birth family over his married family, and her lying instead of fighting through the issue. It’s possible that if she stood up for herself earlier, the relationship would have ended then – but it’s also possible they could have worked something out.
That kind of fake-agreement relationship feels stable, moment to moment, but it’s unstable underneath – and the instability grows and grows, invisibly, as long as the conflict is buried.
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Maybe his complete lack of respect for her had a bit to do with it! “he dismissively waved his hands and said something non-essential, trying to undermine my achievements.” Her lying, while not good, was in response to the fact he made it unsafe to tell the truth! In a good marriage, one person’s successes are met with joy and gratitude, not dismissals and putdowns. In retrospect, one of the early warning signs that my marriage was going to be emotionally abusive was my ex saying “Now you’ll have to do stupid boring stuff” instead of “Congratulations!” when I got my first, very longed for, promotion.
Thanks for sharing your story, and best of luck to you!
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I appreciate your story. But I do have to wonder: was money the only reason for the divorce? And, if not, didn’t saving money all those years really help you out post-divorce?
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I appreciate you sharing this story. Between me and my FH, I’m the one who has the drive, passion, and ambition to succeed in business. FH is more than content to go to work, earn a paycheck, and then come home and do what he loves. When we have discussions about who would work and who would stay home with our future children, we keep running headfirst into gender roles. FH would be a *much* better stay-at-home parent than me, but we have trouble getting over the “no that’s wrong” we’ve been programmed with for so long.
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Please, for the sake of your relationship, allow the partner better suited to be a stay at home parent stay home. Get over “what will people think” and do what is best for your relationship.
I wish my husband and I had listened to our hearts instead of following “gender norms.” He resents my time with our son and I resent having my career being mommy tracked. It’s not fun around here.
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More and more people are challenging this old stereotype. I know of Dads who stayed home to raise the kids and were absolutely great at it. You don’t have to let others rule your life choices.
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My dad retired from the Navy in the early 70s to stay home and take came of me. If he could do it then, anyone can do it now. (And I like to think I turned out OK!)
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Are you sure that this lack of similar business drive or ambition is accompanied by desire and skills to take care of children full time? If not, they he may not be the “much better” choice after all. My husband is a stay at home dad – we didn’t have much choice as I was already the only breadwinner (work visa-related issue we had at the time), but being with the kids all day long is making him miserable and the gap in his resume has made him virtually unemployable. When deciding on who should stay at home, if you have a choice, consider also who is better with children.
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These ingrained gender roles aren’t just bad; they’re inefficient and making us lose money. I love my job, but if I were to get married and have children, me leaving that job would definitely have to be on the table. And that’s the right answer; not the wrong one.
In all seriousness, I’m probably going to take my wife’s name if I ever get married.
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While the fact that you are from a country with traditional and entrenched gender roles played a role in your situation, don’t be fooled into thinking that this thing doesn’t happen here. Millions of American women deal with the exact same situation: it’s fine for them to work PLUS take care of the kids PLUS do all of the housework- just as long as their income doesn’t exceed their husband’s.
I appreciate your honesty.
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I also know a few [American] women who refused promotions because that would mean making more than their husbands.
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It’s been my experience that when a woman significantly out earns the man problems in the relationship happen. Many men become uncomfortable with this and many women lose attraction towards the lower earning man. We might like to think that we have evolved past these relics of past thinking. But we really haven’t.
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I would say it depends on your relationship. I make more than double what Mr. Sam earns, and that has been true since Day 1 of our relationship and Day 1 of our marriage.
We both work long hours, although I probably work about 10 more hours per week than he does. We are both professionals and we both have advanced degrees, meaning we would generally be considered professional peers (which I think, based on studies matters, different than spouses where one is professional with advanced degree and one is blue collar with high school degree, less commonality).
We treat all money that comes into our household as joint monies, my salary, his salary, my bonus, his bonus, rent from our investments, etc. I manage our personal finances but, we each receive the same amount to spend on discretionary spending. We jointly pick our savings goals for the year and then I act on them.
Mr. Sam has always been happy for me to make the money I do as increased household funds enabled us to pay off all debt, except the mortgage, including “his” debt from his MBA, and allows us to spend on things we enjoy.
We both work hard and as such we are a team tackling our jointly held goals.
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I agree with Sam.
I think problems can happen whenever there is a big disparity in income, to the extent that the individuals equate money with power. But to the extent that the individuals see income as just one of many contributions to the marriage/family (along with home repair, parenting, listening, planning, and other skills, for example), then the marriage can be successful even if one partner earns much more than the other.
It takes a lot of discussion, though, and an ability to ignore other people’s comments. And because there ARE those old social norms, I think the discussion doesn’t happen just once.
I’ve been married for 17 years. Sometimes my husband was the only one earning a salary, sometimes I was, sometimes he out-earned me, and sometimes our salaries were about even. I currently earn, oh, 10-15 times more than he does, depending upon bonuses.
As I said, it can require a lot of discussion, but it works.
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I’ve never understood the whole ego thing men go through when their wives make more money than them. Personally I could care less who brings in the money, as long as there is money coming in. When my wife gets a raise we celebrate and are both happy with it. Same when I get a raise. Work isn’t everything after all and you can’t judge a persons worth by how much they are paid.
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Angela (#8) is right, these are issues American women deal with, too – though it generally doesn’t seem to be a big problem to the average American man if his wife makes more money than him, there’s this entrenched idea that she should still be taking care of the lion’s share of house work, child rearing, etc, no matter how many hours she works outside the home.
I saw it in my own parents, too: Mom was always the primary breadwinner, but also the primary shopper, cook, laundry washer, kid toter, etc. Dad worked hard, but the household responsibilities weren’t even, and he was making less money.
Try as we might, sometimes DH and I fall in to similar patterns. The difference is, when I feel resentment starting to set in, we have a talk about it. Not always easy, but definitely necessary.
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I wonder if this is changing at all with the generations? We are early 30s and Mr. DB does all the shopping and the cooking. My primary jobs are finances, cleaning, organization, and any other logistics. We both work full time because although I adore our toddler, I love my career too and if I had to stay home full time I would go completely insane. Not to mention that I make 2x what Mr. DB does so the numbers wouldn’t work. Anyway, a wise friend once told me that the trick to a successful marriage is for both of you to feel like you are giving more than 50% and taking less than 50%. Especially with kids, there is SO much work to do that I think even when everyone works really hard, it still doesn’t feel even.
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Wow, that story is saddening. My instinctual reaction is to think that your ex-husband is lame or weak or just plain insecure. However, when I think about it more, I don’t know exactly what my reaction would be. I know you’re supposed to be fine with your wife earning more money than you do, but it IS a source of pride. And pride is important to a man, even if he tries to deny that based on what society tells him.
You’ve definitely given me something to think about should the roles ever reverse in my family.
I am curious where you are at now?
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First, a wise person once told me don’t refer to him as your ex-husband since you that means you are still attached. I now call mine either my former spouse or my kids father. Sure takes the sting out of saying “Ex-husband”.
Second, my former spouse left me almost 4 years ago and was very resentful that I made more than him. I was still expected to do the majority of the household chores as well as child rearing. Since he has left, my income as increase another 1/3. So, I am so grateful he left when he did so my career could explode and I can care for my children well.
Not all divorces are a bad thing!
Thanks for a great article. I will be sharing this with my boyfriend as well.
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Aloysa, thanks so much for this.
I grew up in a wonderful, close knit family. It wasn’t until I got out in the world that I realized how lucky I was. Whenever, I hear people talking about putting family first, that families should take care of their own, I know now to think about situations like yours. A close knit, dysfunctional family can, and often will, remain trapped in poverty for generations, despite the ability and hard work of individual members.
I used to wonder why a poor family might have an X-box or a big screen TV. Then I learned that it was likely purchased before Grammy found out about the money and demanded it be given to Junior’s 19 year old daughter who just left her boyfriend and needs money for an apartment for her and her toddler. However much that family might have wanted to save that money, when it means anger and abuse from loved ones, it’s probably not going to happen. Adding different cultures to the mix just makes it more toxic. For anyone interested, I’d highly recommend the Frontline mini-series “Country Boys.” It’s six hours long, but well worth it. It’s streaming free on the Frontline website.
Lanjha – Yes, honesty is the best policy and when you don’t keep your word, you lose a bit of yourself. But… there are people who don’t deserve the truth. Learning to recognize them and keep boundaries between them and what you love is important.
And Americans, this is why a public safety net is important. It’s not for the loser jackass who can’t keep a job, it’s for his hardworking brother who has been watching someone he loves slide into a mess of drinking, schizotypy and hoarding.
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For more information on this topic, take a look at Ruby Payne’s work. “A Framework of Poverty” is very eye-opening.
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When my husband and I met, he was making, literally, six times my salary, but he spent every last cent of it. It distressed me, because as we moved toward marriage I knew my career would never support us (he works in technology for a hedge fund…I am in the arts). First, it took me forever to get used to the idea of living off of someone (we moved into an apartment together that I couldn’t even afford half of), and then to having to show him how to regulate his money. Since, as an adult living in a large expensive city, I had always been rather poor, I had a handle on decent finance, but I thought, for sure, our financial difference and my having to help him regulate would be the death of us.
We went to a couples counselor (we weren’t even married) as a pre-emptive strike while we worked through our financial issues.
Three years later, we still have separate accounts (we are married), he pays all our bills, and I work and put myself through school, but he has learned how to save tremendous amounts of money.
It was so hard to navigate, but in the end I am so proud of him. I still hate the idea that if he loses his job, I could not support us, but we are beginning to slowly work through that.
I understand why you kept it a secret. For three years I never told him exactly how much I was making, mostly because I was ashamed that I made so little, but I couldn’t hide the truth for long. It would cause too much damage.
You made some tough calls. You came out better on the other side. Thanks for your story.
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Wow! It’s very rare for a couple to be able to turn around the instincts of someone with a different financial style. Good for you!
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One of our friends never knew how much er husband made, It was for a different reason, he was a gambler. When he died, his wife was left with debt and a lot of their assets were encumbered. They owned two houses free and clear. He earned a good salary, but he gambled it away. They did not suffer when he was alive, but she was left debt and found out a lot of secrets when he died.
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I’m in school and my wife makes more than I do, and I love it! Attractive and financially independent women and sexy! Its even better when you can tell them I love you. But learning to share our financials took time and honesty. we have had many challenging discussions about budgets, bank accounts and how we would spend things like our emergency savings.
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Glad you escaped that awful situation!
According to our W2 this year, I make about 20K more per year than my DH (and this is mainly because he’s made some career sacrifices for my career). He doesn’t mind at all. His worth and self-worth are far more than his paycheck.
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Aloysa
I can so relate to your situ. I also had a more prestigious and well paid job than my ex when we first married. He did not cope well and his ego was bruised. I stayed in the relationship for 22 years with 3 children until I realised that I couldn’t live without the truth!
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Sorry to hear about people’s problems, but this article makes me happy that my wife and I fight on a regular basis.
Whenever there’s an issue bothering either of us, we have ourselves a nice, loud, constructive quarrel, and so far it’s always worked out for the best in times of money/no money/unemployment/windfalls/differing incomes/etc.
Yes, we can get loud, yes, it can be embarrassing if other people hear us, but we’ve never let issues fester untreated because of fear of a fight. Fighting has done our marriage a lot of good.
Just yesterday we got into a nice argument about what to do with the money when our income increases next month (new paychecks coming). She wanted to buy this and that that need replacement, and I agree that they do, but I said we need to fortify our depleted emergency fund and pay our taxes first.
What followed was an emotional dispute that had more to do with “feelings” than with reason. It was an unpleasant 30 minutes, for sure, but it was worth it every second because that cleared the air and now we both feel good and have a plan that we both agree on, and today we’re having a party all day.
Now the reason I bring this up is that lying, which is the centerpiece of this article, is a way to avoid fighting. And I get the sense that people (not the OP here, but people in general) often may think that fighting is “bad” and should be avoided.
Young people dream of finding someone perfectly compatible with them, and if they don’t they become sore, disillusioned and disappointed. But perfect matches don’t exist– it’s good to lose that illusion. Good marriages are forged in the trenches. Yes, you need some core understanding and some common values, but the territory of everyday life needs to be conquered in battle.
If you can’t fight productively with your spouse… I don’t see how you can stay married.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but to me, the moment the husband started making snippy comments it was the time to apply boot to the head and sort out the issues on the spot. Discuss how he felt, or what could be done to address his diminished sense of manhood, and to plot the course together as a family. Maybe it would have taken 6 months of arguing or a year of therapy, but it would have been better than 6 years of lies.
Of course, again, we learn from experience etc, so I’m not finger-pointing at anyone here, just reminding us all that fighting can be a really, really, really, really good thing, and it should be cultivated as an art more crucial to marriage than bedroom skills.
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I believe arguments in marriage are normal and healthy. Just don’t fight in the presence of children.
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Don’t fight in the presence of children…or they might think that arguments in marriage are normal and healthy?
How about, don’t be destructive, physical or demeaning in the presence of children. It’s a good thing to see your parents argue, constructively, and work out an agreement. The kids need that skill, too.
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Yeah, exactly. Don’t be destructive or physical or demeaning in the absence of children, either! But kids need to learn to fight passionately and constructively for the things and people they love and value.
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My parents never fought in front of us–and we were completely blindsided when they told us they were getting divorced. Sure, they’d been going on lots of “walks” lately, but we thought it was romantic. Turns out they needed to leave the house to have their arguments where we couldn’t hear. While I agree that heated, loud arguments should not happen in front of children, I don’t think it’s healthy to hide it all from them either. It is possible to have healthy arguments.
My husband and I do argue occasionally, but whether we let it happen in front of the children depends on the issue. If we’re arguing about what to do with money, we may go ahead in front of the kids. If we’re arguing about disciplining the kids, obviously that happens when they’re not around. We generally like to appear as a united front, but I guess I’d like them to know that some arguing is normal and okay. We also make sure they see us being happy together so the arguing won’t freak them out.
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Lying is also a way to avoid abuse. And this guy sounds like a potential abuser. I’m horrified that societies (USA included) still produce all of these men who have “masculinity” self-esteem issues that cause them to emotionally abuse their wives (if not physically too!).
Good on you for getting out of the toxic relationship.
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This is why it is most important to ensure you HAVE money to fight about. Fighting about debt is WAY worse than fighting about where to put your money.
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My husband and I have been married 34 years, and we don’t have loud fights that are embarrassing to have overheard. We discuss issues, and each of us decides how important something is to us and how to find a win-win or lose-lose solution, where we are both equally satisfied or dissatisfied.
Maybe you need to see someone to find out how to fight constructively. It is not necessary to do it at the top of anyone’s lungs.
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Maybe it’s a cultural thing, maybe it’s a personality thing, as everyone has a different style. It’s not that we do anything shameful, but we live in passive-agressive surroundings where raising your voice is frowned upon, and we’re both very emotional–wouldn’t have it any other way. Also we’re very private people anyway and we don’t like to air our dirty laundry in public anyway.
For a visual example, see here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michellerick/4883444853/
like that, but indoors.
I grew up watching my parents argue spiritedly, by the way. Bless them. Thanks, Mom and Dad! I hope my marriage is as long and happy as yours.
[ps- not everyone needs to fight this way-- like in PF, "do what works of you", but do it because it needs doing-- the couple that fights together stays together]
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+1. i used to fight all the time with a guy i dated, and it was nothing but stressful despite my trying to rationalize it as healthy. i am married now to a calm, rational man, if we disagree about something we talk it through. fighting just raises the blood pressure and makes you grind your teeth. ymmv. i much prefer talking it through.
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Good story! Also left someone, partly because I was making more than him. In fact, being promoted to a new job caused a lot of strife. I wouldn’t say that salary alone caused our problems, but his reaction to my hard work and promotion did make me see how he treated me in other areas. Not sure why some men can’t handle successful women, but the guy I’m with now is WAY more supportive, and it’s allowed me to accomplish much much more personally than I ever thought possible. Thanks for sharing your story.
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Thanks so much for sharing this, Aloysa. I really enjoyed reading it and could relate to the issues caused by the wife earning more than the husband.
My ex-husband had a major “knight in shining armor” complex, and when I started earning more than him, he lost interest in me and had an affair with one of his subordinates at work (which eventually led to our divorce). When I found out about the affair, I remember him saying over and over that she “needed” him and I didn’t. Like your ex, he sure found a way to nickel and dime the money I made for someone who resented it!
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Your story was gripping and I enjoyed reading several posts at your blog even more. I wish you much success as you work to get out of debt and save money. I hope you don’t stop there; consider reading Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover (I don’t work for him but I really should try to get him to hire me – I recommend him all the time!) and work his baby steps to build some serious wealth!
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Admire your guts Aloysa! Many people refuse to talk about money issues at their own peril.
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I’m glad you figured out that it wasn’t your fault that your ex-husband didn’t support your success. I hope you are way happier now.
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Thank you for sharing your story! I can’t imagine it was easy to revisit all of this and put the words down. It sounds like you made the best decision you could at the time, even if it meant not be honest – to him or perhaps to yourself.
I have more education than my husband, and I will always be the primary breadwinner. He is fully supportive – in fact, he’s the one that supported me (financially and emotionally) during graduate school. I really think that more couples need to push back against traditional gender roles. My husband is a much better cook and wonderful caregiver, and I think our whole family benefits from that.
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Closures and layoffs have hit traditionally “male” jobs in manufacturing even harder than “pink ghetto jobs” during this recession (actually, it’s a depression, but most economists won’t admit it). I can see why men might experience cognitive dissonance when their partner earns more than themselves. But a real man who is concerned with providing for his family (rather than being fixated on being the largest earner) should be delighted when his partner earns more or provides better benefits, etc.
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Thanks for sharing this story. Even though I’m still single, stories like this help me prepare for the day when I have to work hard in a relationship to make sure we’re going toward the same goals. Many great lessons here. Thanks again.
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Very true, money is not power – it’s just a resource and a tool. You can use it as a way to support freedom and security, or you can let others drain it from you just as fast as you make it. So sorry to hear you had to go through that experience – especially having to hide your success and feel ashamed of your ability to make money. I know a lot of women who go through this with husbands who have a fragile ego. Glad to hear you aren’t letting him hold you back anymore.
Daisy
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Great article.
My grandfather used to tell me that a girl needs to know how to make her own money so that she could choose a relationship, not be stuck in one.
I finally realized how right he was when I met my current partner. I have more education than him and make more money but he contributes so much to the relationship that I really feel like the luckiest girl around. He had to leave a good paying job due to a work related injury but cooks, cleans, does the shopping, laundry, kids activities, and anything else he has time for. He also boasts about my success every chance he gets which makes me feel good about myself and how hard I worked to be where I am in my career. I always appreciated his yummy dinners and perfectly arranged closets but after reading this story and all the comments I think I’m going to go out of my way tonight to let him know that he’s a great partner and that he doesn’t need to be the breadwinner to be a good man… he proves he is one at every single school play, scouting event, and parent teacher conference he is there for. What more could a girl want?!
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Wow, sounds like a great fellow! Does he have any brothers? (Just kidding!). It’s always great to hear stories like that. Hang onto him.
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Wow what a story! Too often I think many assume that its the spouses ego but in this case I guess you could clearly tell he had a problem with you making more money. Once you started the ball rolling with the lies its too hard to stop. I would agree that you need to know where the both of you want to go but sometimes it just doesnt seem people want to be truthful. I guess they fear that telling the truth will lead them to discover that who you want to be with my not be who you should be with.
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I’m not sure that this applies in your particular case, but generally I wonder if part of the challenge with issues of this type is simply that the framework for women to work has been significantly developed, culturally, and the framework for men NOT to work has not been developed. For me, I make more than my husband (but not by much). We have no kids (yet). I certainly would not tolerate it if he made me do more than half the housework. But if I made significantly more than him, could I expect him to do more than half around the house? In reverse, could he expect me to do so? It may be. Now, unfurl that scenario out to the point where one or the other makes so much more than the other, that the secondary income is relatively negligible. If that secondary income is that of the woman, I think most people would not react too strongly to hear that the woman takes on much more of the housework. But if that secondary income is that of the man? I’m not sure there’s a cultural framework for the reverse to be as easily accepted.
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I only think it makes sense to ask one partner to do more of the housework if they have a job that requires them to work less hours. It is demeaning to suggest that a person’s contributions are less significant because they make less per hour, so they have to make up for it by cooking/cleaning/etc… while the other person sits on the couch doing nothing. If they are working part time or their partner is working overtime to earn more, then I see housework coming into play because the partner earning more has more time.
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I agree with Becky, if both partners are working the same or similar number of hours then they should both pitch in to split the household duties too. If one partner makes a ton more, maybe they could hire someone to clean the house. We’ve talked about doing this since I’d like a cleaner house but don’t have the time or energy to clean it. So far I can’t bring myself to pay for house cleaning so we just live in a slightly messy home most of the time.
I work more hours but do more day to day cleaning b/c it bugs me. Mr. Sam does less day to day cleaning but more big projects, like grocery shopping, cleaning the entire house for company, taking care of the yard, etc.
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This is what I always thought I believed, too, until this past year. I now believe it’s a little more complicated.
My husband took a new job after years of being the at-home parent and going to school. This is his dream job, one that is very fulfilling for him, and does a world of good for the community. It also requires nights & weekends work, a ton of driving, and my and our kid’s attendance at some events. It pays a tenth of what I earn, and is supposed to be a part-time gig.
It turns out that even though we both work, I DO think I should do less household and chauffeur-the-kid work than he does. I am baring my ugly soul to admit this, but I value the contribution of my job more than I value the contribution of his.
My reasons are (i) his job is part time and mine’s full time; (ii) his job would take less time than it does, with good time-management skills; (iii) his job requires me to do stuff I wouldn’t otherwise do, so in some way I’m working for his job too; (iv) his job is primarily about his love for the work – helping the family finances is only a small part of his motivation in taking the job; and (v) my job is necessary to financially support our family, and that is the sole reason I do the job I do.
He and I have discussed this a lot, and he sympathizes with me. His job has been a huge change for the family. Basically where we are right now is that I’m doing more childcare than I did before he took the job, but I am not doing more housework. I’m sure we’ll keep discussing this, like we do everything else…
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Motivation has a lot to do with it, I think. My partner’s job pays really well, but it has a floor of about 50-60 hours per week, every week. Him working that many hours makes it just about impossible for me to work full time and meet the family obligations he considers vital, much less raise a child well.
After about eight years, I finally started looking at the extra 10-20 hours he was putting in to work as a hobby. He’s doing it because he loves it, not to get promoted, not for extra money (he’s on salary), not even to make the money he makes – many of his coworkers went to higher-paying, fewer-hours jobs when they started families.
It “makes sense” for me to work less and do more of the other work we are committed to – but only financially. At some point, I am going to go for a job that’s actually meaningful, and he’s going to have to adjust to *my* dream job instead of me always working around his.
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Have you ever considered showing him this story?
Maybe he’s never looked at the story from your perspective before. (No matter how many times you’ve talked to him.)
Hopefully things are better for you two because you still have to raise children together.
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Aloysa, you said you were secretly saving money… I wonder if you could not have helped your ex by sending him for further education with some of the money you saved. Just maybe, that might have helped his self esteem and maybe you would have put him on an even plain with you. I’m really sorry about the outcome for you (the divorce.) I hope your life is better now.
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Thank you for sharing your story. The comment you made that “No one should ever equate money to power in marriage” really caught me. I agree completely with the statement, but I do think money does have a powerful “magnifying” effect. If there are underlying issues in a relationship, money often shines a huge spotlight on it, or brings it to the surface.
Years ago we decided my wife would stay home and focus her time on raising our children. Neither of us regret that decision, but there were many times we struggled early on and it always seemed to be around money issues. Looking back, it was never the money – it was issues with identity and feeling valued (being a mom vs. a career) but it showed up as a money thing.
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Just about every stay at home parent I know (and I spend half my time these days on the elementary school playground) has these struggles, and rarely talks about them – to the point where now when I hear women say “we never have any conflict about money or power” I figure they’re not telling the truth.
Every discussion about “should I work more/less” includes at least a subtext of power, time, and family balance.
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Yes I think that money=identity thing hits men a lot harder than most women. This is the first year our youngest is eligible for school and my husband is having a difficult time. Since he is now “only” working part time in addition to the majority of child care he seems almost frantic to find something in addition to do to justify himself (everything from suggesting we adopt a child, he start a teaching studio, make a graphic novel, do full scale renovation of our house). I keep saying let’s this be a transition year and keep things on an even keel, enjoy the little extra time, so we don’t rush into a decision that is actually less helpful to the family time/money/resources dynamic.
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I’ve never understood men who worry if their
wives make more then they do…..
If she did…EXCELLENT!!!!!
I’d be ecstatic.
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Great Story, if you lie about anything and you do not feel guilty for it then there is definitely something wrong. thank you for sharing this very personal story.
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I’m grateful that my husband and I are willing and able to disregard traditional gender roles so well. I truly believe that it’s central to our happiness as a couple. I make more money than he does, and I have a very high-stress, demanding job. I offset that by working from home most of the time, so I can be around during the day for errands, appointments, greeting the kids when they get home from school, and starting dinner at a reasonable time. He works hard, but his job is very low-key, non-stressful. He’s actually just very good at it because he’s so organized, thorough and hard-working, so he tends to keep up with all of his tasks, which keeps his workload light and manageable. He doesn’t really have the drive or ambition to grow his career, which is unfortunate because he really could do much more than what he’s doing.
He’s thankful and happy that I make so much money, and he has never questioned our distribution of household responsibilities, which is 50/50 at best, and often shifts to him taking on more than half the duties, depending on my workload.
Our life would just not work any other way.
I think our culture is very slowly shifting towards this arrangement being more normal. I hope so anyway, because it really does reduce the stress associated with maintaining traditional gender roles in a society where that’s not always preferable or even possible.
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Great story Aloysa. One of the hardest parts of personal finances is recovering from past mistakes. We cannot allow them to cripple us moving forward.
Marriage is definitely a partnership, and can be built only on openness and a team mentality. Thanks for sharing.
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Being lonely now is better than enduring any more of a destructive relationship with an unsupportive husband and his sorry family. Be happy you are out of that marriage; the divorce was a blessing in disguise.
And noone else should be judging; you don’t know all of the implications in the relationship and you probably don’t know how awful it is to be in a marriage that is spiraling downward & out of control. Even if there was no lying about money, that relationship would not have lasted because of the attitudes & lifestyles of the people involved.
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I’m glad that this worked out better for you now. I would hate supporting an ex’s sister, but right now I support my mother so I really have no room to talk.
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You are such an amazing storyteller. I could immediately see the frustrated husband waving off your accomplishments and salary. That is so disrespectful and says that he wasn’t on your team. It is stories like this that make me a little obsessive about what we value as a couple when it comes to money. Both of us were terrible with money for our whole lives, it’s been less than a year of being responsible. I think we are both learning not to immediately spend. But we still make lots of mistakes.
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One of the most poignant, best written personal accounts of a marriage I have read.
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This was an amazing, honest and inspiring story. Love it!
This is a hard issue. I deal w/ it a lot when it comes to dating. The last guy I dated I made more than 2x his salary and I had 2 more degrees than he did and he was so traditional and didn’t want me to pay for anything which I thought was crazy since I made so much more. I think he was used to dating women who made less than him. We didn’t really gel and I think that was one reason why.
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This is one of the most honest reader stories I’ve seen. Kudos to you for sharing, and kudos also for getting out of what had been toxic.
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This was a great piece. It reminded me of the issue of roles in relationships. My wife makes more than me, but one of the reasons why it doesn’t bother me is because my Mom made more than my Dad. He had some issues with it at times, but overall it was fine because it was about the family. Growing up in that situation helped me be comfortable when I ended up in the same position. We define the roles in our marriage/household and go from there. Now, as far as talking about salaries with friends or in public, my wife will be discreet about it so it doesn’t become an issue. If it became an issue, I could see how it could destroy a relationship as people tend to want to put you in boxes (male=breadwinner), etc. I think it is an issue that should be talked about more, especially as more women are surpassing men in education and pay.
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This is a great article and it took a lot of courage for you to come out and share your story. Thank you for sharing with us
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first congrats on two things one getting promotions second leaving someone who did not love you.
Now, I for one don’t see is as a problem if someone makes more X than me. I’m not them in fact i would be asking them for pointers.
but maybe that just me…………..
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