This morning, Kris and I signed our divorce papers. (They won’t be filed until I’ve been approved for health insurance, however.) Tomorrow, she and I fly to Buenos Aires to begin three weeks exploring South America together.
We’re both looking forward to this as a chance to test whether our friendship can be strong even after marriage. Many folks think we’re making a huge mistake, but we think things will be fine. Still, I have a back-up plan. If at any point Kris decides she’d rather I were elsewhere, I’ll jet to Lima, the city from which our final flight departs in a few weeks.
Because we’re traveling, my presence here may be a little light. But when I return in March, as promised, I intend to be more active on the blog than I have in months — or years. We’ll kick that off with the third annual GRS video contest!
Now it’s time to look at some other personal finance stories from around the web.
First up, resident GRS economist (and forums supervisor) Stephen wrote to tell me that he has three Turbotax Premier Online prepaid codes we can give away. If you’d like a code, comment below. I’ll contact the first three people who respond (provided your e-mail address is real and I can reach you) to set you up with your codes. Please don’t respond if you don’t plan to use the software. (And I have no idea if it’s any good. I’ve never used it before.) Update: All codes are gone. Thanks!
Next, Beth from Smart Green Media pointed me to an interview with philosopher Jacob Needleman. For those who complained that my post on Monday was “philosophy lite”, you may enjoy Needleman’s take on the relationship between money and meaning.
Staying philosophical, Nelson and Canadian Finance Blog wonders how many of your Needs are actually Needs? I’d argue that the things Nelson picks on are obviously wants (travel, cell phones, Netflix), but his larger point still stands: If you’re struggling to make ends meet, it’s time to cut things from your budget, even if they’re things you use and love every day.
Over at Pocketmint, Karawynn — the woman who inspired me to start blogging over a decade ago — has spent the past few weeks exploring what she calls the conflict-free family budget. In the first part of this series, Karawynn explains why a new system was needed. In part two, she describes the plan as she and her partner implemented it. Next, she reveals how the plan worked for her family. And in the final part, published yesterday, she discusses how to customize the plan to your situation.
Finally, my friend Amy writes a wine blog. She recently partnered with Erin Chase from $5 Dinners to produce a free e-book entitled Dinner and Wine for $20 or Less. Sounds like a winning (and tasty) combination to me!
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
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Thanks for the turbotax promo code offer. Love the blog!
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Hi, I’d love one of those Turbotax premier codes! It’s great for people with investment property. Thanks!
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I could use one of those codes. Thanks.
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I use turbotax every year and would love a free code. I’ve never used the premier version before.
ObValue (since I may have been too slow for a free code):
Every year I use the TurboTax basic edition. You have to click around on their site to find the edition. If you aren’t eligible for Free Edition, they try pretty hard to get you to go straight to Deluxe. However Basic is cheaper and handles most situations (including stock sales, mortgage interest deduction, flexible spending accounts, dependent care credits, and more).
And of course, 25% off discounts are ubiquitous. For instance anyone can get a 25% discount by clicking through from fidelity.com (even non-Fidelity-customers).
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Best of luck!! You are definitely living the way you want to!
Please make sure you both understand that breaks from each other will be needed (as i’m sure you are already experiencing) You mental health and ability to find a balance in all this new exploration is of utmost importance, especially when forging a new friendship.
I hear that the jungles are amazing!
good luck.
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Would love a TurboTax code..thanks Stephen and JD.
Wish the best on the trip for you and Kris. Can’t wait to see you back and active!
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Okay, that’s all the codes, folks. I can’t tell if Emily is saying she wants a code or not. I’ll check. If she doesn’t then everyone who has requested one will get one. But no more after this.
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Turbotax?
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Ooo, JD, I’d like a code.
Thanks! Love the blog and enjoy the trip!
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Have a good trip! I tried online tax last year and I don’t like it. I’d rather do it on my computer.
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I’d love one of the Turbo tax codes if there still are some – I need a way of doing my taxes this year! Thanks!
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Thanks so much for including Dinner and Wine for $20 or Less in your round-up. The ebook was a lot of fun to put together… and it is even more fun to cook and drink through.
I hope you have a fantastic trip in South America. It’s been WAY too long since I’ve been there. I bet you’ll see some beautiful sites and have even more fantastic soul searching.
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Thanks for the giveaway – I’d love to win a Turbotax code!
Have a great trip.
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Hi JD! I’d love a TurboTax prepaid code! Safe travels.
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No need for a code. But have a safe trip; Argentina is a wonderful country (steer clear of the Falklands though!)
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I know Amy from Houston- she’s awesome
Also, we just arrived in Mendoza last Saturday and are doing 2 weeks in Argentina. things have been wonderful so far. I hope you have a wonderful trip and let me know if I can offer any advice.
We did 3 days in Mendoza, 3 in Bariloce (now), 3 in Calafate, 3 in torres del paine & 3 nights in Santiago.
GOOD LUCK!
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My ex-wife and her boyfriend are my best friends in the whole world. It’s totally possible.
I would argue that a cell phone is a need and not a want. It’s prohibitively difficult to get by (at least in the U.S.) without internet and telephone access, and with discount smartphone plans cheaper than a land line + dial-up combination, cell phone is the way to go. Where it becomes a want is if you go for the iPhone/Nexus/etc. on one of the major carriers.
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I agree that a cell phone is probably a need in this day and age — a phone of some sorts, any way. However, and this is a point that can be argued til the cows come home, a smart phone is not necessarily a need. A simple, ‘dumb-phone’ works just fine for basic phone functions. Now, if it is cheaper to have a smartphone w/ data plan vs. internet at home, then it could be considered a need. But only if internet is a necessity for the person (ie: work from home)
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JD,
I hate to say this, but it’s a bit F’d up to sign the divorce papers one day and “test out the relationship for three weeks” the next.
It’s just weird.
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Dan, I appreciate your concern, but Kris and I have talked a lot about this. And I’ve talked to enough people who have made similar choices and things have worked out fine. Just ten days ago, I met a man who divorced from his wife thirty years ago, but is still close to her. He was even the photographer at her wedding when she remarried. Nowhere is it written that divorces have to be bitter, bitter affairs.
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Sure, if BOTH parties want the divorce. But, Kris didn’t want the divorce.
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All that matters for Kris and JD’s relationship is what is true of their relationship. Divorces can proceed in any of a million ways, and they’re doing their best to have this one end in a friendship. That’s respectable. People have had one-sided divorces that ended in a better relationship/friendship (see: my parents), people have had mutual divorces that left them barely speaking to each other (see: my best friends), and everything opposite/upside down/in between. You may not agree with JD’s approach, and I totally get it, but don’t act like you know how the story ends.
/irrationally defensive
/tired of reading these comments
/should just stop reading these comments
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Total agreement here that divorces don’t have to be bitter and that friendship is possible. (I’m friends to some degree with every significant ex.) And in all areas of life it’s good to forge your own conscious path rather than just following society’s dictates — good for you for doing that with divorce.
I’m guessing that part of what some people are reacting so strongly to is 3 weeks of international travel with an ex and discussions of future international travel with said ex. And I’m guessing that people wouldn’t have negative reactions if you were defining friendship as dinner once a month or even a full day together on occasion. The challenge with a vision of long-term international travel together as ex-spouses is that it subconsciously presupposes that neither of you will move on with your romantic lives. Do you really think that either of you could have another romantic partner who is comfortable with you taking off for 3 weeks overseas with your ex-spouse? I’m one of the least traditional people I know, and that would be a deal-breaker for me in a romantic relationship. Once either of you starts dating someone else, I imagine that your international adventures will be with that person (or with family or friends who are not exes).
Good luck with the travel experiment, though! It’s great that you can be a model of a civilized divorce for the other commentors on here who didn’t even know such a thing existed.
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True, but my point was about the timing and nothing else. If they had separate residences and had been divorced for two years, sure, to each his own.
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J.D.
If you run across any really good empanadas, see if you can snag a recipe.
Have Fun
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Well, I guess if Jack White (rock star) and Karen Elson (model) can throw a “come celebrate our upcoming divorce” party, then why not an “upcoming divorce” vacation? Personally, it doesn’t sound all that relaxing, but to each his (or her) own.
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Somehow, I still have a difficult time wrapping my head around the idea an obviously sane person wants to go traveling with their ex right during the divorce. Even if it’s not hostile.
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I agree with you. How can someone with a sane mind sign divorce paper and go on vacation to test friendship? I just do not get it. May be I have never seen this happen before my eyes.
Well, it’s 21′st century. I guess anything is possible.
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I filed with TurboTax Deluxe on January 21 — third year in a row using it. It really is so easy. Got my state refund direct deposited January 27 and federal refund February 4
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JD and Kris – I guess I have not kept up with the blog that much to catch this curve ball… So sorry to hear about the break up. Marriage is so much more than just a relationship. It is impossible for me to understand or even question such a decision. Overall, I feel a bit disappointed and sad for you. Life is really human life when you are able to be larger than yourself. A marriage/family is our natural legacy.
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“Life is really human life when you are able to be larger than yourself. A marriage/family is our natural legacy.”
Wow! That is very profound, and awesome quote! Well said, J. I’m stealing it!
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J.D., I don’t know of any other couple who would sign divorce papers one day and go traveling another. No judgement here whatsoever, but I am extremely envious of the great wine you’ll probably have in Argentina. Have a wonderful time!
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JD,
Along the lines of a comment I made to a prior posting, at some point your self-flagellation over the divorce must end, and that includes also taking your own needs into account in addition to trying to smooth everything over for Kris. It’s great that you’re going to fly off if she gets uncomfortable. How about also having an option to fly off if you get uncomfortable? Or to fly off if you get uncomfortable because Kris clearly doesn’t see you as “just a friend” yet and the whole thing is awkward for you. Or whatever comes up with your emotions and your observations. Traveling together is great if you can really make it work in a healthy way. And if not, it will do Kris good to learn how to travel the world solo (or maybe solo in a tour group if you’re still relying on tour groups).
Happy travels!
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Having you “fly out” if things get uncomfortable is not much of a backup plan. Basically you are saying if things get emotional then you, the more fluent/bilingual traveling partner will take off, leaving her stranded in another country to complete the rest of the trip solo, um yay?
A real back up plan would have been to have another travel partner instead or in additon to yourself go on the trip.
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This occured to me as well… Kris may not be angry, but is likely to be sad, possible teary at times about the end of her marriage. Is he going to take off if she starts to cry? Also, is JD expecting some sort of “friends with benefits” arrangement? I can’t help but believe that this would severly handicap any future romantic relationship that Kris might want.
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Enjoy the posting frenzy. I’m sure Quinn Street is loving all this.
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Looking forward to more involvement by you in this blog. FYI – I only read posts written by you.
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Commenter #22 is dead-on. Wow.
I went through a divorce that wasn’t particularly bitter last year, but the VERY last thing I’d ever want to do is spend three incredibly awkward weeks exploring a foreign land with her.
In my opinion, if you REALLY want to test the state of the relationship (or divorce in this particular case), spend some time apart and see how you both feel afterward.
Either way, best of luck to you JD.
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Hi J.D.,
I have been following your updates about your divorce and it sounds like you and Kris will be able to maintain a good relationship, even though you will soon no longer be married.
I know you’re waiting to make it final pending your approval of health insurance, but have you thought about other issues that may arise after the divorce is final?
For example, if the worst were to occur, have you designated a person to be your power of attorney for health care/end of life decisions (in case you’re unable to on your own)? A durable power of attorney (since I assume Kris won’t legally be allowed to step in on your behalf anymore)?
I haven’t seen it mentioned in your posts and I thought it was something important to bring up, especially since you don’t have kids.
Take care of yourself and enjoy your trip!
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Best wishes for a great trip!
Will be good to see around the blog more when you return.
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South America is a beautiful place, enjoy it!! Iguazu, El Calafate for the glaciers and beech tree forests, Torres del Paine hiking, Bariloche’s lake district, Pucon’s volcano, Pisco Elqui’s astronomical domes, Mendoza’s wine, Salt flats of Bolivia, Peru’s amazon and Machu Pichu, Galapogos etc etc. I wish i was going back..
Have fun and enjoy the bus rides.
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Folks, I’m moderating the snipey comments about the divorce. Enough already. You can criticize me briefly, and I’ll take it. But you don’t have to turn every thread into a referendum about how I’m some sort of jerk and this is no model for marriage (or divorce). I have a high threshold around here, but his goes beyond it. Enough. Keep the comments productive and civil. This isn’t YouTube.
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Then I am sorry but you have to moderate ALL the comments. It’s not right that you delete the comments that disagree with you or people who praise you. Or you have to make that clear in your policy.
If you don’t want comments you need to stop posting about it beyond the personal finance issues. You could have simply said you were going on a trip and would be away.
Save it for your personal blog if you dislike comments. But it isn’t right to only keep the comments that praise you and call you a model of divorcing virtue.
My comment was deleted for no reason. All I said was that traveling with your ex is not the new standard for amicable divorces.
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Anne, that is not all you said, and you know it. I’m not going to argue about it. This blog is not a democracy. It’s a dictatorship. I may be a benevolent dictator, but I still call the shots. I rarely (as in only a couple of times in six years) moderate comments, but if I think it’s in the best interest of the blog, I’ll do it. This is one of those times.
I am happy to take criticism. That should be abundantly clear. But it’s possible to level criticism without resorting to unfounded supposition and remarks about putting my balls in a blender. If you want to discuss this by email, then email me, okay? But don’t turn every one of my posts into a forum to rant. I already got your point, and so did everyone else.
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Enjoy the trip. Personally, I’ve always wanted to visit Argentina, but simply don’t have time these days. Someday, it will happen….the younger the better when going though!
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Best of luck on your trip! I couldn’t have done that when I went through my divorce, but best wishes to both of you. And I’m really looking forward to more posts from you, J.D.!
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Thanks for being so transparent JD. Most of the folks who seem hostile have probably been there–many of us had breakups that seemed amicable and we tried to proceed immediately to friendship only to realize we needed a healthy dose of time apart. That isn’t to say it’s your case or to excuse the rudeness people offer however.
You should both remain thoughtful and introspective and if you decide time apart, be quick to admit it and head out to Peru.
Have a great trip!
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Roth I would like to share with you or your reviewer why this issue is important to me. (I really don’t care if you leave your wife or move to Siam or get a sex change. Do what you want. It doesn’t affect me or anyone I love.)
What has affected people I love is the idea that people should just move on from marriage and patch things up and become friends as if they were never married and no one ever got hurt. And boy did the women in my life have to do it fast. Apparently no one had time or care for their grief. So when you accept a post that praises you and your wife as some model, that touches a nerve with me. Not everyone can go on and just turn a marriage into a close friendship on a dime.
That does NOT mean the divorce was bitter. Most were not. It means the people in it are human. It’s natural that when grieving a lost relationship and life that some people will be angry and struggle. None of the women I know who have been doubly mistreated by husbands and then by family and friends had particularly bitter divorces.
What happened was that they had to hide and struggle alone with that greif and anger or risk losing everyone in their life. That broke my heart.
IMO these women should be given the time and support to heal on their own schedule. There’s no need for anyone to be friends with an ex. That is not the new normal in human relationships, no matter how many people can do it.
So,it matters to me when people say you are some kind of model of how it SHOULD be done.
You have a choice. You can stop talking about your marriage other than in ways that reflect your personal finances. Or you can lock the comments making it clear that comments will not be accepted either way
But only deleting the ones that don’t praise your choices is wrong. It skews the perception of how society can and should see relationships. It breaks my heart when I think about my friends and relatives who have been doubly hurt by divorce.
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See, this is acceptable. It’s critical without being mean and without resorting to supposition. All I’m asking is you keep things civil.
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Censorship is never benevolant.
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Neither is continuing to repeat the same essential point, despite having that point addressed.
We get it. You disapprove. Let it go.
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Anne,
why is it so important for you to give advise or comment on a personal subject to someone you have never met (presumably)?
This is his work of art, his blog, his ideas and if comments are moving away from the story he wants to tell I completely agree with the author censoring some comments.
Lastly, I find your statement “It skews the perception of how society can and should see relationships.” a little troubling.
Are you saying that JD can change all of society’s perception on divorce by posting his experiences or deleting certain comments? How exactly SHOULD society see relationships? The way you described in your comment? I think not! It certainly sounds like you have a huge judgmental chip on your shoulder that needs to be resolved before I could take your advise as serious.
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Dude. Have fun on your trip. Please post as many pics as possible.
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JD! You’re coming to visit my country? Send me an email if you like, and I can give you some advice on where to go and some places to visit.
Regards!
Ps: Some days are extremely hot, further more than the temp you can see on the web.
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ok – Awesome that you’re going world traveling. I still haven’t caught (won’t ever catch?) the traveling bug, even though it’s the trendiest thing to do these days it seems. So have fun and don’t get lost. Does don’t drink the local water apply here? I’d love to hear about what the local food is like when you get back.
I only hear what you update on GRS with regards to your divorce. So my view is extremely limited, but it seems like there’s alot of “oh look, we’ve successfully transitioned to good friends” going on and not alot of “oh, wow, we just ended our marriage, now what does each of us want independant of the other?”. You’ve probably done due diligence, hashed this out with your now ex, and made future commitments for outings together with a clear head. But I wonder if, in your race to be good friends, you’re both ignoring the inevitable grieving process and seperation process. Ultimately it’s none of my business. But the impression I get of your writing bothers me enough that I thought I’d bring it up.
Safe travels to you and Kris!
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With all due respect, J.D., instead of seeing “by J.D. Roth” at the top of your posts I now see “by The Dude Who Asked His Wife for a Divorce Then Immediately Went on a Vacation With Her Over Valentine’s Day.”
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I’m not sure why so many people seem to be worked up about Kris and JD taking a trip after filing divorce papers. They always kept separate finances. Apparently Kris never took JD’s name, even in hyphenated form. Neither seem to have wanted kids. There is nothing wrong with any of that, of course. It’s just that they never had a conventional marriage so it stands to reason they won’t have a conventional divorce.
Everybody seemed so shocked by the divorce. Frankly I’m more surprised that it took this long in coming.
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I’ve been giving this some thought. I understand that divorce happens – that people grow apart, and there can be irreconcilable differences. It sounds like all they want now, after signing the divorce papers, is just to be platonic friends. I don’t know Kris or J.D. so can only speak for myself — I personally feel that I deserve the whole package, and that includes romantic love. If I had an ex who wanted the divorce, I would stop being friends and stop the relationship. I would leave him alone to take care of himself, and his own problems, and to figure his own self out. I wouldn’t go anywhere with him. And since he isn’t the only game in town, I would immediately start dating 2-3 different guys at a time, looking for that whole package and for a great man. I would tell these new guys that my ex and I had a lot of happy times together – we grew apart. It’s over, and right now I’m on a new journey and I have a lot in my life to be grateful for. In short, I would just move on. Yes I would be civil with the ex; he just would no longer be my priority. Ok, that’s just me and my point of view. Everyone handles things their own way.
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Reading about J.D.’s divorce (and all the ensuing posts) has made me realize just how wacky a place the blogosphere really is. In truth, most of us know absolutely nothing about the “real” J.D. and Kris – or what happened in the privacy of their own marriage. Indeed, we don’t even know that about our closest friends – but even less so in this case. And yet, I actually find myself thinking about them, as if they were characters in my favorite TV show (“Why doesn’t Lady Mary just tell Matthew Crawley how she really feels?” “Maybe Kris will run off with some hot Argentine man she meets on the trip,” etc).
But all these posts – whether supportive, empathic, hostile, preachy – they all form this fascinating kind of treatise on marriage. Should people stay in a marriage when they feel love, but are no longer “in love?” Does the institution of marriage hold the same kind of import when there are no children involved? Can there be friendship after marriage, even when one party does not wish the marriage to end? Is there value in sticking with a marriage through ups and downs, or when the relationship feels more platonic than passionate? And if we stick it out, are we settling, or choosing the peace and contentment that only a long relationship can ultimately bring?
I guess we can only answer these questions for ourselves. Still, I keep fighting this urge to somehow send Kris an email in which I encourage her to bring some cute clothes with her on the trip and to flirt a lot with men who are not her soon-to-be-ex-husband. Sorry, I just can’t help myself.
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Great comment, Kate. Thank you.
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I don’t wish anything bad for you, J.D., but I’m particularly rooting for Kris here. My ex asked me for a divorce, and we tried this kind of experiment (though not a 3-week vacation!). While his interest might have been in seeing if we could be “friends,” I spent the whole time trying to be particularly charming so that he’d see he was making a mistake. Well, let’s just say it didn’t work. It was a very sad time and, while I’ve moved on, I can still remember how bad I felt. Please remain conscious of what Kris might be feeling.
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So what happens if the three weeks does more than prove you can be friends post divorce? Not suggesting it can, but what then?
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I heard a rumor that if you give Stephen a really good bottle of scotch, he’ll just do your taxes for you.
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Thanks for the mention J.D., enjoy the trip!
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J.D.,
Best of luck to you and Kris on this new path that your lives are taking you. I applaud your honesty and transparency especially considering none of this is remotely your readers’ business. Marriage is not the end-all and be-all of life; love can manifest in many different ways and we should celebrate all of them even–or perhaps, especially–when they do not fit with our own deeply held notions.
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I divorced in the early 80′s and I share a son with my ex. I am good friends with my ex-and his wife and I are facebook friends. I am facebook friends with his parents and two of three sisters. You know, I loved him once, I still respect him and honor him as the father of my son-before he remarried, we did holidays, Sundays and other special days with my son. Since his remarriage-I have embraced his wife and we have celebrated graduations from high school, college, marriage, etc. It can be very civil-I consider my ex someone I can talk to, vent with and share concerns or celebrate my son’s successes. Divorce can be good-I have a great one!! Wishing you the same.
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A three-week trip with the person you just divorced? A-C-K-W-A-R-D.
And probably heartbreaking for Kris, though it depends on how mutual the decision to divorce was.
J.D., you should’ve bowed out of this trip and bought a ticket for a friend to go with Kris instead.
Oh wait, I’m sure it’ll be fine if you’re “testing your friendship”. LOL. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
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This comment is very ackward.
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