This guest post from Joe is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes.
Over the last year, some of my friends have left their day jobs to become a full-time bloggers. Their stories are inspirational, but their choice isn’t for everybody. For instance, I’m still working at my full time job. It’s tough to walk away from a good paycheck with great benefits in this economy.
I’m an engineer at a big tech corporation, and my salary is just into six figures. If I quit my full-time job to become self-employed, I would have to take a huge pay cut. Still, the idea is tempting.
Writing on the Wall
First, let me share why I will have to leave my high-paying job at some point.
I’ve worked in this field for over 15 years now, and the thrill is gone. It was a great challenge in the beginning, but my enthusiasm has been tapering off year by year. I find that I don’t care about the latest release of the doodad version 5.70 and I doubt customers really care much either.
Lately, the corporate culture is wearing me out as well. I’m in a relatively senior position, and every year the management pushes me to do more and more. Every year, I have to work harder to earn the same pay. Over the past five years, my annual raise has usually just enough to beat back inflation. It’s plain to see that the lack of motivation and the constantly increasing expectations will collide in the future.
Blogging for Bucks?
Can people really make money blogging? Of course. Look at J.D. here, for example. Crystal, at Budgeting in the Fun Stuff, left her job and is making much more money now on her own. There are plenty of successful bloggers who are working for themselves and living a comfortable life.
But the more relevant question is: Can I, a regular Joe, make money blogging? I’ve been blogging for about a year-and-a-half and fortunately I find that the answer is “ye”s for me too. I don’t make a lot of money at this point, but I can earn about $1,000/month online on the average. This is great as side income, but it’s no way to earn a living. It’s 90% less than I make from my full-time job. And if I quit my day job, I’d lose all my benefits as well. Can I take a 90% pay cut and maintain the same lifestyle?
Fortunately, I’ve been saving and investing a large portion of my income for many years, and I have a plan to cope with the 90% pay cut.
- I’m investing in dividend stocks and the yield income is approaching $500/month.
- I also invested in rental properties and plan to have about $1000/month of rental income.
Combining these two sources of income with my online income should bring in about $2,500/month. This is still a huge 75% pay cut, but $2,500/month is much more doable than $1,000/month.
I’m also exploring other sources of income such as peer-to-peer lending and freelancing. Fortunately, my wife likes her job and will continue to work full time. Her salary combined with $2,500/month would enable me to quit my job and still maintain our lifestyle. I can also jump on her health insurance plan.
Living Below Our Means
How is it possible to take such a big pay cut and still maintain the same lifestyle? That’s because we’ve been living below our means for many years now.
We share one car, bring lunch to work, search for free entertainment, and more. The big problem I can see is that I won’t be able to add as much to my retirement saving if and when I take this pay cut. I’ve been maxing out my 401(k) contribution for over 10 years, though, and I’m fine with not contributing for a few years. Once I earn more money again, I could restart contributions to the retirement funds.
The Bottom Line
So my answer is yes, I can walk away from a six-figure paycheck. It took a lot of preparations and it wasn’t easy, but I’m very confident that I can make it work.
Some people will question my choice, but no job is really secure these days. It’s better to be prepared for a big pay cut than to be surprised when it happens. If the HR folks hand me a pink slip tomorrow, it won’t be the end of the world.
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You are an engineer, yes? So you spent years training to get where you are, and after more than 15 years you say you’re sick of field. Why not look for something else engineering based? It’s a huge field. If the senior responsibility is burning you out, you could always look for a job with less pressure (different company or maybe even for a non-profit) which would probably give you a pay cut but earn you more than blogging.
What happens if blogging stops paying one day? The internet is a fickle place. People’s tastes change, and sites can’t always keep up (remember Myspace?). Remember the number of people saying they were never coming back here because JD was getting a divorce? That was probably an idle threat, but still.
You seem to know you can do it and sound like you’re raring to go, but man… I don’t think I could do it in your position. Discarding 15+ years of networking, connections and experience in engineering to be a blogger. But I’m young, and haven’t slaved away at anything for 15+ years. Maybe my opinion will change in the future (hell, my mum gave up a 25 year career in microbiology to work for the church, so there you go).
Good luck to you, whatever you end up doing.
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I don’t presume to know what is right for, but walking away from a potentially lucrative career, where your skills can be obsolete very quickly, is a difficult decision. I’d recommend asking for a raise and an opportunity to work in a different area, before you walked away. If you were leaving because you wanted to go back to school to learn CSS programming and leverage that along the way with a blog, I’d say go for it. JD worked in a box company, that is very different from what you do, so not a good comparison. Also, JD cashed out so he has a big nest egg to fall back on.
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I’ve been saving and investing for over 15 years and I do have a big nest egg to fall back on. Making money online is not just about blogging. There will always be new ways to make money online. Bloggers who are making money online are ahead of the curve and hopefully can stay ahead of the curve no matter how online advertising changes.
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@Joe, I am a bit confused by your article. On the one hand you seem to be ambivalent about leaving your day job (i.e. “I’m an engineer at a big tech corporation, and my salary is just into six figures. If I quit my full-time job to become self-employed, I would have to take a huge pay cut. Still, the idea is tempting.”).
But the other hand it seems like you have already made up your mind (hence the blog title “Retire by 40″) and are not interested in considering other options such as consulting, freelancing, or switching to another company.
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There’s also the game of looking for another job that would probably pay more. You can either take the other job, or use it as leverage to get a bigger raise and/or less on your plate. It’s sad, but this is how corporate America works.
(Years ago when I got a job offer that included a salary of about 50% more — my boss offered to match it to keep me. I was leaving for reasons beyond salary (although that didn’t hurt!), so I didn’t take it, but the offer was there.)
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I don’t understand either. You say:
“I’ve worked in this field for over 15 years now, and the thrill is gone. It was a great challenge in the beginning, but my enthusiasm has been tapering off year by year. I find that I don’t care about the latest release of the doodad version 5.70 and I doubt customers really care much either.”
Just because you don’t want to work on the next version of “doodad” doesn’t mean you have to leave the entire field. You can go work for a different company in the same field on a more interesting product. I’m a software engineer and recently left a company I’d been with for a while because I wanted to work on something new, but I didn’t leave the industry entirely, I just got a job with a different employer.
Further, if you don’t like corporate culture, you can go work for a smaller company. There are lots of tech startups that need engineers. Or if you want to be self employed why not start your own company in the field you have 15 years experience in, or your own consultancy? You can put your experience to good use and it’ll probably be a lot more lucrative than blogging.
Besides, no offense to anyone here, but the world really doesn’t need yet another influx of aspiring pro bloggers. I’d rather see more engineering startups.
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Yeah, I didn’t realize this was the “retire by 40″ guy when I first read the article this morning. From the blog it always seemed like his main reason for wanting to retire was to be a stay-at-home-dad, which is a very different motivation than what’s talked about here.
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This is what I hate about many of the bloggers I see around. They aren’t honest about their perspective or their lives. Instead, they just write the article they know will get published and get as many hits as they can muster. And yet, bloggers don’t have the detached objectivity you see in good journalism.
These days, so many bloggers seem to be either content monkeys or scheming to get rich quickly doing as little as possible (and hopefully from the nicest location or while their kid naps for 20 minutes).
I see it more in the mother blogger world, but I see it elsewhere too. Hollow meaningless articles that are clearly designed to fit whatever perspective the author thinks the potential readers may have. Instead of getting at some interesting truth or insight. Articles that can sometimes prey on our fears or our desires, rather than giving us real honest insight in the issue.
I don’t disrespect content monkeys. They want to be writers. Some of those articles are good articles for what they are. I’ve learned a lot from random how-to articles. But, as a reader, mostly I don’t want to read filler. I want to read real honest and insightful bloggers and journalists. Increasingly I see less and less of that on the net. Not sure why.
I envy engineers and their flexibility and the diversity of jobs available to those with the education. If I had any math skills I would go back to school for that. But I know I couldn’t handle it.
But I wish this guy well at finding a life he’s happy with.
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And there are options beyond corporations, big or small. A friend of mine left our high-paying, high-stress field to be a college lecturer in the same area. The pay is a lot less, but substantially more than a blogger! And there are many fringe benefits like summers off, a pension and educational opportunities. Another went from the technical work we do to managing our business development team and loves the change in focus and reduced hours. I’ve never read this fellow’s blog, per Nicole’s comment below he may have family aspirations, but for anyone else hating your current job doesn’t have to mean a complete about face.
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Thanks for the suggestion Tyler. To be truthful, I’m tired of the engineering field in general. My expertise is very niche and the field has a huge moat. I can’t start a company in this field. I can become a consultant or contractor, but then I will still have to work for the big guys. I know a few of my co-workers who left and it is very difficult to even get contracting jobs in this field. I’ll have to move to the Bay area to even get a chance at working for a small company.
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Solid first post Joe! Definitely understand where you’re coming from, modern corporate culture has a tendency to wear us all thin. However, blogging is not the best or only way to make money online. In is much harder to test ideas and get off the ground running than other methods and it is FAR LESS PROFITABLE unless you have a huge following. In the last year I discovered a coach that teaches you how to live the real “4 hour workweek.” I highly recommend you check him out, here is my success story: http://www.freedombusinessblog.com/justin_success_story
subscribe to his free e-mail list and see if you like what he has to say!
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I’m in a similar situation so i can understand the feeling of letting go…
One comment on the numbers though: the dividend + rental income are already there and are on top of the six-figure salary so the drop is still 90% and not 75%
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I agree with Ru’s suggestion to consider other engineering-based occupations as well. Maybe he’d consider adding “consultant” to his existing streams of income?
A career coach I interviewed once told me that a lot of people confuse disliking their work environment with disliking their actual job. Sometimes it’s a change of scene, not a change of career, than makes the difference.
Best of luck to Joe! Not that he needs it — he sounds pretty money-savvy to me
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My company is actually one of the best technology company out there. They are always on the “best companies to work for” list and there are many fringe benefit. I think I’m just tired of working a corporate job and want to work for myself.
Thanks!
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I wasn’t suggesting you work for another company
I’m just saying there’s a difference between giving up the corporate lifestyle and giving up engineering.
I suggested consulting because I know people who hated the corporate life and are much happier working on contract (i.e. employed for several months working on a specific project) or as a consultant. They have more control and autonomy, but they’re still working in their field and keeping current. Sometimes they’ll work for a as long as a year or two, and sometimes they’ll take months-long breaks.
If engineering isn’t for you, that’s another story.
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When’s the last time you switched job or department Joe? I think you should at least try for a year switching to a different boss and different colleagues, then see. Human thoughts change randomly often.
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I switched job a couple of years ago and I like this current position even less. I think I’m ready to move on to different challenges. Engineering is not fun anymore.
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I did exactly what you wanted to do Joe. I worked for IBM for 10 years. Got so tired and burned out, I thought I hated the entire engineering field or the corporation. So I quit and started blogging full time.
I only lasted one year. Not because of money, but lack of social aspect of life. I felt isolated, not respected cuz I am technically “joblsess”. The lack of routine and not able to tell if it’s Monday or Sunday wasn’t as fun as it sounded either.
So I went back to the engineering field, but for a completely different type of business. I joined a mutual fund company and designing systems for them. The people are awesome at this new place. No more 100% travel. Money and beneifts are fantastic. But most importantly, I picked up new skills at this firm, more specifically, I moved myself away from large computing system that IBM does to more Cloud and Mobile system based technolies.
I am so happy now. I still make 6 figures. I got a lot more time in my hands. I got married, I had a baby. Life is great. And I don’t ever want to quit engineering field.
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I also want to add that unless you are prepared to handle the emotional aspect of not having a paycheck coming in every month. It can get very stressful.
When I took a year off from corporate world, I blogged, sold stuff on eBay and did a few other random things. Not knowing exactly I would have was a culture shock to me. And I didn’t mentally prepare for it.
But, I think it will take a person to walk down this journey to truly understand the pros and cons of both worlds.
I walked both, so I could make a clear choice at the end of the journey.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. That’s really helpful for me. I’m pretty sure I’ll have to take at least a year off and experience self employment. If I don’t last, I’ll find another job. I don’t think it’ll be the end of the world. It’s great that you found what’s right for you. Do you think you would have found it if you didn’t take the year off?
Come by my blog and say hello.
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Clearly this reader is a smart person and has found success at work and in personal finance.
But even more clearly, this person reads too many blogs that talk about making a living from blogging.
There are so many ways to leave your job – new employer, contractor, consultant, small business, etc. that may have more potential than blogging. I am glad you are planning well financially but would recommend more thorough planning occupationally. Blogging can be a part of many careers without being all of it.
Good luck!
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I agree.
Yes this story was interesting, but I think blogging about blogging should be kept to an absolute minimum.
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Yep, I get this feeling. As senior management, you’re squeezed on both sides – everything your team does wrong constitutes a lack of training on your part, conversely upper management is never accountable, so that’s your fault as well. It’s exhausting to say the least. As others have suggested, a change of company, or a lessor position might instill a return of some of that joy. You did work hard to get here, so give it a bit more, and see if a change can’t shake things up. I like the backup plan you’re generating, with the blogging and dividends. Obviously as an engineer, you’re not going to just jump – the plan will be methodical. Sounds something like Mr. Money Moustache, no?
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One of the best things about MMM is that he made money in his investments during the biggest downturn in our lives. I’d love to learn how he did it. He should be a hedge fund manager!
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My father was laid off from his company a few years ago, but he was rehired in a different department of the same company. His original job he had been a manager and frequently had to travel to Europe for meetings. His new job was a lower level job, and he had to take a pay cut. However, it was probably the best thing that could have happened. He could spend more time with the family and working on his hobbies, and he hated dealing with personnel problems and “being the boss”.
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Ayayay, another “I quit life and return to the womb” post.
Couple of things:
1) “Look at JD”. Look at the other 1/2 million bloggers who don’t make a cent also.
2) Crystal is not making money from the blog per se, she’s making the big bucks from providing business services to blogs. Different animal. Read the article you yourself linked, and the comments.
2) You may be suffering from a bit of depression. Why not talk to a professional just to discard the possibility of physical or philosophical causes for the “grey” feeling? Srsly. Bad food causes depression. And nihilism kills.
3) Why not…
a) Find another engineering job in a more interesting company? Solving more vital problems somewhere else?
b) Become a self-reliant adult and start your own engineering business doing things you care about, without the parental figure of a boss?
c) Find another field where you highly valuable skills can be put to use? From non-profits to teaching, the world needs qualified people. E.g.: http://www.ewb-usa.org/
4) “Customers don’t care about doodad 5.70″, but you want to make money selling credit card ads? Oh, the irony!
5) How long with the blog advertising bubble last? Honestly. I read this blog daily and I never click on the ads– they don’t interest me one bit. Eventually advertisers will wise up.
6) “Rental property”– please, the world doesn’t need another irresponsible absentee slumlord. Renting your property is not passive income. You have to work at it, fix problems, answer the damn phone, call the plumber and pay from your pocket. And I guarantee you the thrill of dealing with annoying tenants will be gone just like it’s gone from your current job. See you in court!
Sorry but I can’t sympathize with you. I’m actually annoyed at the latest string of “I quit life” posts. I’d start cussing right now, but the post would be censored.
If you really want to jump off cliff then nobody is going to stop you, go ahead, I’m sure there is some hungry immigrant who will take your job gladly and laugh all the way to the bank. The Economy to Homeland Security: more green cards, please!
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Other than perhaps the last two paragraphs, total +1 to this reply. “Quit your job and become a blogger” seems like the trendy thing to do, but I agree that it looks more and more like a bubble to me. The advice for Joe to look at alternative careers where he could use his valuable expertise is excellent.
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Agreed. Nothing against Joe, who clearly wants a change and has put a lot of thought into it, but I’d love to see a post about a career change that doesn’t involve blogging. And maybe involves redefining their role vs. chucking it all. This is kind of what I did, when I kept my 6-figure job but negotiated a 4-day workweek from home vs. the standard 9-5 commute. But I guess that’s kind of a boring story since I just told it in a sentence
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That is NOT boring. I’d love to hear about it. Details please. Where do you work? Who paid to set up the new/home office. How does it work? Why you wanted this? Do you have children or other life challanges or did you just want more time for yourself?
How do you motivate yourself? Do you work in work clothes or in pjs? Do you get up at the regular time you would have or earlier or sleep in?
How do you do 5 days of work in 4 days or are you allowed to do less?
Is everyone in your company allowed to ask for this or was it just to keep you? How many are doing this?
How has it affected your work relationships?
It’s a GOOD story. Certainly it has more interesting points than the article above, which could have also been written in 2 sentences. “I’m bored with my job of 15 years. I think I’ll try to blog and stay home instead.”
But my guess is you aren’t trying to build a blogging career, so spending time writing such an article has no appeal to you. There’s nothing in it for you, but the glorious chance to be published on GRS!
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Kiernan,
I would love to hear all about this story! Same questions that Anne asks. Sounds very interesting and relevant to me.
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I second that!
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I did something similar: I negotiated a part-time arrangement where I could work three days a week and have more time for writing fiction. Fiction writers tend to be more realistic than many bloggers about how much money they can make from their writing. Every single author I’ve contacted, including a few NYT bestselling authors, told me, “Don’t quit the day job.”
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Maybe he’s got a million bucks saved up in the bank already and can do whatever the heck he wants after 15 years of work? How long have you been working, and how much have you saved?
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I agree.
Plus there’s nothing like working out at your local butt sniffer’s club while the missus is at work. Get lucky and Ms Perky Noobs can always stop by for lunch.
I do this frequently myself. Oops, gotta go, wifey just read…
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making money> Crystal is making over $35k/year from her main blog. She is making a lot more with her advertising service.
depression> Yes, I’ve had bouts of depression before and have learned to recognize it. Taking pills is just a temporary fix and I don’t want to do that again.
rental properties> It’s not easy, but there are many landlords out there. I’ve been a landlord for over 5 years and it’s not fun, but I can handle it.
engineering> My field has a big moat and the only thing I can do is consultant/contract work for the big guys.
advertising bubble> There will be new ways to make money online. My friends are finding new ways to generate online income all the time. If the advertising money goes away, the bloggers will be the first one to find a new way to make money.
Thanks for your suggestions.
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i wouldn’t suggest pills–the best cure for depression is GO KILL A BIG FRIKKIN DRAGON.
living with no challenge or purpose except existence will just make you sadder. the world needs capable people, dammit! take you paycut if you must, but go somewhere where you’re needed and you can make a difference in other people’s lives.
of course this is your own individual life and you can do what you want with it, no need to receive anyone’s permission– i just need to voice my disagreement with the ideology that the ultimate goal of life is finding comfort.
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What kind of medical training do you boys have? What are your qualifications for telling people not to take antidepressants? Or that “bad food” causes depression?
Clearly, none. Please do not give medical advice to people who might be naive enough to listen to you. You are wrong, wrong, wrong. But your carelessness in comments can cause some very real damage.
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I didn’t give medical advice, I said go see a professional, he said “I don’t need pills” and okay, I’ve battled depression all my life and I know pills don’t cure meaninglessness– which was my point with the dragon-killing advice. But yeah I’m not a doctor and I don’t play one on TV either. If he’s depressed he needs to see a pro– or pros.
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Concerning your point about #6 – real estate… That is failing to consider that lots of people make money from being a landlord even after hiring a property manager to handle the day-to-day items. If you take a look at Joe’s blog, you will realize that he is already doing it.
You also seem to fail to realize the potential for earning money from a blog. A blog is just like any other online source of information and offers many advantages to news or corporate websites. Just because you don’t click on the ads, 1) doesn’t mean that no one else does and 2)doesn’t mean the blog is not making money off of the fact that you are reading.
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Just to put this out there, I do make around $36k a year from my main blog, another $20k or more a year from the rest of my blogs, and then about $100k or more a year from my blog ad business. And I only started blogging in February 2010 – my ad business started in April 2011.
So I think making enough money through blogging to live on is very doable if that is what Joe is striving for.
I know it annoys people to read about how to make money online, but I am not sure why. I do not think Joe or I are suggesting that everyone “drink the koolaid”…it’s just an option for people who no longer like what they are doing every day.
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This x 100 million. El Nerdo, you just outlined every one of the objections I had in my mind as I read this post. I would like the 10 minutes I spent reading this back now.
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Anyone who thinks rental property is a bad idea never really understood it nor did it for a while to know how to do it.
It’s one of the best way to generate wealth as well as income. So if you think all the slumlords end up in court, you are so dead wrong!!!
I have been a landlord for the past 20 years. Not a single time I ended up in court. There is work. But it’s truly the 4 hour per month work. But it takes a lot more time to learn the business right to minimize the amount of work you put in.
It’s not as easy as most people think, but it’s also not as doomed as you think it is..
I can retire any time because of my rental properties. But unfortuantely, I love my job so I am doing it to make money and have fun and watch my rentals getting paid off one by one by my tenants.
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PS- here’s a little Nietzsche for your breakfast.
——
Alas! There comes the time when man will no longer give birth to any star. Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself.
Lo! I show you the Last Man.
“What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?” — so asks the Last Man, and blinks.
The earth has become small, and on it hops the Last Man, who makes everything small. His species is ineradicable as the flea; the Last Man lives longest.
“We have discovered happiness” — say the Last Men, and they blink.
They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one’s neighbor and rubs against him; for one needs warmth.
Turning ill and being distrustful, they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or men!
A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end for a pleasant death.
One still works, for work is a pastime. But one is careful lest the pastime should hurt one.
One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome.
No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same; everyone is the same: he who feels differently goes voluntarily into the madhouse.
“Formerly all the world was insane,” — say the subtlest of them, and they blink.
They are clever and know all that has happened: so there is no end to their derision. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled — otherwise it upsets their stomachs.
They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health.
“We have discovered happiness,” — say the Last Men, and they blink.
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El Nerdo, I love you!
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Ha ha, I think you love Nietzsche, which is great because Nietzsche is awesome! I merely quoted.
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Me too!
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El Nerdo,
Catherine beat me to it! I love you too. I always look forward to your comments.
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So true. It is sad that you’re ten times as interesting as any blogger out there right now. That includes the great JD Roth.
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Funny, I was just thinking, “Wish Nerdo would blog”.
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I always look forward to your comments- your presence on GRS keeps me (and many other readers, i’m sure!) coming back for more refreshing, entertaining, and enlightening material. Thanks so much!
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El Nerdo, What community college did you go to?
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I do not think I would give up such a high paying job to venture into such uncertain waters.
You seem to be really unhappy with your current job so find a different job. We probably all wish we could stay home and write for a living. Because there are so many people like you it is a very competitive environment.
I want to wish you good luck because what you want to do is tough and many people will think it is crazy. But if everyone could do it it would not be so great.
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Let us know when you’ve on from being a “poor student” and making six figures for over a decade. Perspectives change.
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What was the point of writing this article? You want to share your thoughts, but anyone else who shares theirs gets a nasty reply from you. I don’t think you’ll be a wildly successful professional blogger by insulting the people who take the time to read your writing.
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“We probably all wish we could stay home and write for a living.”
Actually, I think probably a lot of us don’t have this wish. This may be why stories about career folks wanting to leave their jobs in order to be bloggers are not resonating with several of the readers.
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Okay, better put would have been we all would like to be able to make enough money from home.
I myself probably wouldn’t enjoy writing for a living either, but I would really like to not have to go to work and instead be able to make money without leaving the house.
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Ummm actually staying home and writing a blog sounds like my idea of hell on earth. Especially one where I talk about myself all day.
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Let me point out that I will happily run non-blog-related stories about career changes. I don’t intentionally share just blog-related articles like this. But that’s what you readers give me. Message received, though, that you’re tired of them.
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J.D, it’s not “we” the readers because you’ve set up the incentives in a way that’s not attractive for “the readers” in general.
Readers stories aren’t paid. The benefit of posting a “reader story” is free publicity. So few civilians except for the naturally exhibitionist will want to send you a story.
So guess who is going to send them? Other bloggers of course, looking to drive traffic to their sites (you yourself did this once upon a time, yes?). Another group is people looking to promote their online business (airline mile hackers for example). And so on. It becomes inbred.
Let me propose a couple of alternatives:
1) Pay for reader stories. Create an incentive for the unmotivated. $100 will get a lot more people to the keyboard than free publicity.
2) Do some journalistic legwork and seek interviews with people who have “gotten rich slowly” outside of the blog ghetto. “Reader story” doesn’t need to be penned by the reader.
For example, the story of Kiernan up there negotiating a 4-day workweek– why not shoot an email and ask for the details?
Anyway, I don’t claim to speak for everybody but I’d like to hear from people who made it from nothing to have a valuable career, to make important contributions to the world, to raise a family, and not go broke in the process. I’d like to hear from people who are passionate about their mission, not their playtime. Why not find the happy neurosurgeon and interview her?
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+1 on this El Nerdo. My goal is to find a lucrative job I love, and I expect to find it within a corporate 8 – 6 type scenario. I’d love to hear more about Kiernan who made his lucrative probably corporate job more enjoyable for him.
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Free Money Finance runs reader profiles all the time, and I’ve rarely seen a blogger profile, if ever. They usually prefer to remain anonymous as well, so no one is getting click backs to their business. I don’t feel like this site is overrun with blogging posts. I think everyone is just so sensitive to it that they notice it every time one is posted.
I agree that interviews by JD would be a good thing though, but I would like to see stories from people in all stages of finance, not just the successful ones.
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April could probably do some excellent interviews– she’s got a great journalistic style.
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You all realize this is my concept for book #2, right? Interviews with folks from all walks of life about what does and does not work with their finances… This is what I’ve been kicking around with my agent. Publishers don’t really think there’s a market. I think they’re wrong.
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Ill add that while I realize this blog is Get Rich Slowly, I would love to see articles about people who have left their jobs, settled for less and are happy that way, interspersed with the”make more money blogs”. those people are “sucessful” even if they make less money than they did when working.
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FMF Reader Profiles have bloggers too. I know because I was one. He just doesn’t link to us in the profile. So if Joe wasn’t linked to, would this bug you less?
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“Publishers don’t really think there’s a market. I think they’re wrong.”
Screw what publishers think, JD. Self-publish using Amazon. Here’s a great article on self-publishing. It’s long and has a lot of back patting by the authors, but I think it will be well worth your time.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/03/ebooks-and-self-publishing-dialog.html
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@J.D.
Why do you need a publisher? Couldn’t you hire an editor and self-publish via e-book (PDF, nook, kindle)? Your profit margin would be much much higher and cost to your audience could also be lower.
You have the good fortune to have a built-in audience, which has worked very well for many bloggers. Maybe even after you post some good e-book numbers the dinosaur publishers will consider running a print edition, if seeing your book in B&N really tickles you.
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@ Crystal,
Not sure where I said I was bugged by anything. I mentioned FMF to point out that it’s not just blogger-types who share their stories. Maybe there are bloggers in his profiles, but they aren’t the majority.
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I’m going to agree with El Nerdo on this. And frankly, it doesnt even have to be about getting rich. alternative lifestyle and alternative income methods abound. In my personal circle, I know people who make a living buying and reselling, working online in virtual jobs, being landlords, having small businesses (errand business, power washing business). I also know people whove negotiated their jobs or just downsized a bit to be more comfortable. I dont object to this person quitting his job perse…..
Although, I would need to ask two questions. In a highly technical field, once he’s gone, he’s gone. I s he even considering keeping his hand in a tiny bit in case he changes his mind?
and two, the insurance issue. Always the elephant in the room in the United States.
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“Do some journalistic legwork…”
YES!! Bravo! There’s a whole world out there that this increasingly insular blog neglects.
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I sometimes consider writing articles and submitting them to J.D., but the last time I did that I spent at least a full day writing and rewriting my post, and mostly what I got out f it was a lot of abuse in the comments. I understand why that happened, but still, what would the best case outcome for me have been? Nothing particularly lucrative.
Also the kind of posts I’d like to do often require original research, which makes them exceptionally time consuming. These are things like driving to work at 60 vs 70 mph for two weeks each, computing the difference in fuel economy and trip time, and seeing how many minutes or dollars you can save doing one or the other.
Sure, you’ve read lots of articles that say slowing down saves gas, but you’ve never read an article where somebody tries to prove it, because it costs $200 in gas and dozens of hours, and the blog post on it is only worth $100.
I have plenty of mythbusters-esque ideas for personal-finance related articles like this, but little incentive to actually produce them.
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I *do* have a blog, but not monetized (the whole having to care about advertising etc. is a PITA, and Maggie, like many academic bloggers, has some moral qualms that can’t be overcome by the current projected income if we were to monetize… we re-evaluate from time to time). It’s a hobby so we do what we want and don’t do what we don’t feel like doing.
I get paid ~$500/article when I do free-lance– these are generally highly researched lengthy 3-5 page jobbers. It’s really hard for me to put that amount of effort into something unpaid.
And whenever I do explain something related to my work/field, I’ll get a crackpot who isn’t willing to think about stuff but wants me to do heavy research etc. to try to convince him (always a him) even further… at some point I think, “I get paid in my day-job to teach people this. My students pay $10K/year or more to hear my brilliance. I shouldn’t be giving it away for free.” I have more patience for explaining things during the summer, but some things are just not worth my time unpaid.
p.s. The mythbusters have actually done some of the gas myths.
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Yes guys, I said $100 as opposed to nothing, but I understand the different incentives would motivate different readers– $500 for Nicole, research money for Tyler, etc.
My point is that “free publicity” will only work with a narrow population. How can GRS get actual civilian readers to send their stories requires more thought. But yes. Please more ideas.
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I totally agree. As someone who’s ‘been there, done that’ when it comes to online business and blogging, I too am looking for business or career ideas that doesn’t involve relying on people to click on links all day. El Nerdo is right: for every JDs, Babautas and Rowses out there, there are thousands of people like me who barely made enough to pay for the domain name.
The reality is that’s the risk you take in any business, but the rewards are worth it if you make it. It may take a few falls before you/I finally get it. I’m so done with “how to make money blogging” and “how to save pennies on food”, (not directed to GRS, but PF blogs in general).
Topics such as “how to compete in a global economy”, “going back to school (as an adult/non-traditional student)”, or non blogging business ideas I think would be helpful. There’s only so many ways to pinch pennies and too many bloggers telling people how to make money blogging already. I guess the demand has to be there too…
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Gee, I just went back to school at sixty to get a degree…………never thought about blogging it per se, although it creeps in from time to time
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Barb, I think a blog for non-traditional students is a great idea. Topics such as financing /paying for it, supporting a household while going to school, how to keep up academically, etc.
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As a college professor, I think having the perspective of a returning student would be great. Study skills, balancing work, getting the most out of your classes, resources on campus…the list goes on. Such a blog would be motivation to many people who feel “too old” and “too stupid” to go back which is of course silly.
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I too would love this. I’ve tried finding it on the internet, but I don’t think there’s anything like that.
And your ideas would be different than what GRS is suppose to be about.
I’d love to just read stories of successful (boring) people and how they made it in life.
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Wandering Scientist: http://www.wandering-scientist.com/2012/03/blog-carnival-on-work-life-logistics.html
and Femomhist: http://femomhist.blogspot.com/2012/03/iwd-how-to-do-it-all-one-womans.html
have a bunch of links this week… primarily about women who have made it, and what their day-to-day routines are like.
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Or how about postings from people where things didn’t work out as planned? My father quit his engineering job in 1974 to “follow his passion”. Today, in his mid-70s, he is back working in the profession he hated just to make ends meet.
Looking back, would he do it all again? I don’t know because I’ve never asked him. It certainly would be an interesting case study!
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JD, thanks for hosting my guest post.
Blogging will always be just a part time thing for me. I’ll be doing other things too. There are many opportunities for an independent career in Portland.
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Crystal, all any of us are saying (I think) is that if you want to leave the rat race, there are a million choices to make. Blogging is not for everyone. Blogging for money is not for everyone. I dont get offended by making money online ideas-I think that they appeal to a niche, especially stay at home t ypes with kids. But there are many, many alternatives to a “real job”, from using your skills as a consultant onward. I know someone who makes a living (now part time but building all the time) as an amazon bookseller. Aother has an errand business, makes the same money as the full time job and works 3 days a week……..
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For all the bloggers who successfully have rental property, there are CNN Money stories about people losing tons of money by trying to make rental income (not to mention bloggers climbing out of rental property related debt!).
My husband is starting to pick up engineering consulting jobs (first one this summer) to help with a career change.
Additionally, there aren’t many engineers willing to do management, so you should be able to double your salary if you’re willing to move (though if you have to physically move rather than just change companies, it may not be worth it given your dual-body situation). Maybe it’s time to share your expertise at a series of scrappy start-ups (which might be less pay, but we know people who have left large tech companies and returned after doing something similar), or to jump to a different firm or to get your company to pay for some new and different kind of education for you (do you have your MBA?)
It must be nice getting cost of living increases each year.
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The problem is people didn’t do their homework and couldn’t cash flow their properties. People expects to make money when they sell properties, but when the market turned down, they are stuck with it. If your properties have positive cash flow with rents, then it’s much easier to make it work.
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Last I checked you hadn’t gotten positive cash flow yet, but I guess that’s changed?
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Joe, you have to keep in mind that a single meth lab in your property can destroy your entire net worth in one swoop. If the chemicals get into groundwater, which can happen, the EPA lets you pay to clean it up. You also get to pay to remove all contaminated soil and ship it to a hazardous-waste landfill. You are, of course, free to find your former renter and sue in court to be reimbursed.
Can you insure against that? If not, you need to take steps to avoid this problem.
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I would bet that you are 100 times more likely to die in a car accident or have a heart attack than you are to have a renter contaminate the groundwater via meth production and be forced to pay for its cleanup. The idea that fringe cases like this are something to worry about in particular is laughable.
On the other hand, my father in law mortgaged his primary residence during the housing money to purchase cheap rental properties in other states. When the housing market collapsed so did rent prices in these cheap markets and he ended up losing all three properties.
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Clarification: by “all three properties” I mean two rental properties and his primary residence. He rents a small apartment now.
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A meth lab usually costs $5000 to $10000 to clean up. Of course theres cases when its much worse but those would be very rare. Thats still a huge expense but hopefully that kind of bill won’t ruin Joe financially. In any case meth labs are quite rare.
Broken furnaces, renters that skip out without paying, torn up carpets, leaking roofs, renters who get arrested, busted water pipes are all lots more common things for a landlord to be worried about.
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If you think meth labs are rare, I strongly suggest that you call your local police department and ask them. And it isn’t unheard of for the entire house to have to be razed and parked in a hazardous waste landfill.
In addition, you pretty much can’t sell the place afterwards and trying to rent it is hard as well. You MUST advertise that it was a meth house or apartment afterwards, even after cleanup. If you choose to ignore that law and moral responsibility, and someone’s health is affected, you are now legally liable for all damages.
I’m pretty sure these are not insurable losses, either. Some insurance companies are selling policies that may partially cover your expenses, but they have lots of fine print escape clauses and they have more lawyers than you do. Absentee landlords are more at risk.
The ostrich approach to meth labs for landlords can be extremely expensive!
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Best of luck. I’m not sure if your job is causing you lots stress or if you are just starting to find it boring. In my case, I worked a job for 15 years that was very stressful. On more than one occasion I suffered from severe anxiety and depression. A little over 2 years ago I was able to find a job in the same field, but one that has much better hours and is MUCH less stressful. It’s not thrilling – in fact it’s a repetitive cubicle job. And I feel like I’m unbelievably fortunate to have it.
My point is that if your job is causing you panic attacks or something like that by all means get out. If on the other hand you are just not fulfilled I would strongly suggest you rethink your decision. If you spend too much time reading the blogs you start to think that everybody LOVES their work and can’t wait to start each day. But that’s not really true.
Just think it over. And best of luck!
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Thanks for the suggestion. I already limited my hours and that is causing some problems with performance. It’s been tough the past few years because it’s an employer market and they expects more performance for the same pay.
My company is one of the best companies to work for. They are on every list out there. I should try working for a smaller company as you suggested, but in this area, there are not many companies. I’ll have to move to try other work environment.
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You can always look for internal transfers to other positions. If its a big enough company the work environment can vary drastically from one division to another. My friend and I work at the same company and he used to go through 70 hour a week with slave driver managers and I have a pretty nice 40 hour schedule. Same company, different divisions.
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Regarding the use of dividend stocks, these two articles/studies may be of interest:
http://www.rickferri.com/blog/investments/defining-the-value-in-value-stocks/
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-37841850/why-a-high-dividend-stock-strategy-isnt-a-good-approach/
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Joe,
I hope you do it. I’ve read several of these posts from you now over the months, so it is time. Take the leap of faith. No more talking about it! Let’s go!
S
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I’m working on it.
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Maybe you should have waited and written this article after you actually did it and had something to contribute.
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Love the analysis, Joe. A few more rental properties and the decision may be pretty easy. I, too, would probably take a 50% paycut (initially) to work from a laptop wherever I want (and for only myself) and have a management company run a few rental properties for me.
Fortunately I’m in no rush, loving my day gig (even though it kicks my butt relatively often…) and slowly building up an online community and passive rental income.
Great guest post!
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If you love your day job, you should stick with it. I like my job at the beginning and that’s one reason why it’s taking so long for me to leave.
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Joe,
Thanks for your post – I really appreciate the value of living below your means that you display. Many people earning 6 figures would spend all of their money on thrills, but by saving it for the future, you are actually demonstrating that you don’t have to be tied to your corporate job or high salary. I feel like many people convince themselves that money is the most valuable thing in the world even if they are unhappy. Thanks for being a voice of reason that money does not equal happiness. There’s more to life than earning a lot of money.
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Thanks for comment Corey. Making more money is great when you like your job. If you’re stuck in a job you don’t like because of the money, then it’s time to rethink that lifestyle. It’s no fun going through life being miserable.
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My story is nowhere near as dramatic as Joe’s or JD’s, but still shares some points. Twenty+ years ago I was a high-level programmer-analyst making good money (if not in their league!) on a track that would have directly led to far more. I was also miserable with my life and unable to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I now make less than a third of what I did when I left, and far less than what I would have been making by now had I stayed. I also would have been eligible for full retirement next year, had I lived that long. Instead, I now live on just over $20k/yr, and am happier than I have ever been. I love what I do, save a greater percentage of my income than ever before, and look forward to the future instead of dreading every day. I live in a remote area, don’t buy a lot of expensive toys, rarely eat out, and my car is 25 years old (though still very reliable – in the last year I have spent just under $200 in maintenance on it). But I do have the time and energy to enjoy the things I do have and to spend with the people I value (who don’t care if my car is scruffy looking). I expect to be able to maintain my current lifestyle into retirement or semi-retirement (I am 47) if I keep working for another ten years and saving at my current rate. It all comes down to what is important to YOU.
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I’m with Amy. I left a high stress, higher paying job for one that suits my lifestyle better and I couldn’t be happier. I still make a decent salary at about $60K a year and have vested in a defined benefit retirement plan. More importantly, I really like my job and don’t dread working. I have no doubt that I will be able (and eager) to work years longer since I have a job that fits me and my life so well. Like Amy, I don’t have a new car but my 8 year old car only has 105,000 miles and I expect it to go for a long time. All of this is to concur with the posters who point out that taking a less stressful job is another alternative to quitting work completely.j
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Thanks for the encouraging comment Amy.
I think the key here is – I also would have been eligible for full retirement next year, had I lived that long.
I agree completely. The stress at this company will definitely reduce my life span. I’d rather live a longer more happy life than one with more expensive stuffs.
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You’re right. I wish I had realized that myself sooner. I had become clinically depressed. I woke up tired, went to work, then came home and went back to bed. Repeat next day. I did go on medication, and as soon as I came out of the black fog I realized what was pulling me down. I resigned shortly thereafter. Money is useless without joy.
It took time to develop the confidence to follow my heart when everyone around me was loudly telling me what an idiot I was being. Somewhere along the line that changed. Now people see me smiling at work and congratulate me.
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Amy, wow. I’d like to read your story.
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Thanks, Mike, that’s flattering. I’ve debated trying to do that at times, but I keep finding that I am still too busy living my life to stop and write about it.
I have been very fortunate; I have been able to follow many opportunities over the years. My path is in many ways very chaotic: many major life changes, career changes and two marriages along the way, but I wouldn’t give any of it up.
I have been a horse trainer, (mainframe) computer programmer/analyst, electrician, network administrator/online help developer, VP of a television production company, and professional quilter (I still do this as a side business). I am also an avid gardener, martial artist and private pilot (inactive, on my current income!). I have spent the last six years working for a steam railroad, which I dearly love (a recent article: http://www.wvculture.org/goldenseal/spring12/ladyfireman.html). I don’t plan on giving this up until I am no longer physically able to do the job.
I spent a lot of years doing what “I was supposed to do” before I figured out that it just made me miserable. Now I look forward to both work and the things I do outside of work. Most of my family died very young (under 70, some under 65, except for the grandmother who lived to 103…). I plan for the future but don’t give up living today because tomorrow may not happen.
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I did the same thing you are contemplating in 1990.
I went from drilling oil wells to being a stockbroker.
Most with whom I worked could not believe that I could make the transition….they couldn’t do it so how could I.
The same was true when I jumped from being a landscaper to drilling oil wells.
The buzz was…howdidhedodat??
So I am predicating what I am going to say by saying that I am a person who has been blessed with the ability to do just about anything I decide to do.
So the one thing I have learned is that one can always develop a rationale to negate one’s present position and identify better elsewhere.
I can certainly get burned out so am not denigrating that propensity, I am just stating a fact.
Few love what they do.
That “better” environment or change, may or may not play out in reality.
The first point I wish to make is that if you have a desire to do something then do it.
The second point is do it wisely…meaning shore up all the assets you can before diving into something that may or may not work.
And there are bound to be ways to test the waters of a desirable idea with out giving up a substantial monthly income to do it.
The corollary to the second point is….if you are making several thousand $$$ more than you need to live on right now….stay employed and save that money till your current job just makes you want to vomit…again.
You stated that you will have to reduce your retirement contributions.
This tells me that you are not satisfied with the amount of $$$ you have in that account.
My advice…DON’T STOP contributing to your 401 + IRA’s unless you are forced to do so.
I am an old man now and know that no matter how robust I am now and have been in my past, there is no substitution for setting yourself up to the max financially; regardless of your desire to explore.
You have the income now…continue to save it.
As you are doing the above…test the waters of your interests.
Make money and save it….then everything will be observable and doable in its proper perspective.
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Thanks for your inspiring comment Allen. Those are some career jumps. I’ll keep contributing to my retirement fund as long as I can. Even if I make less money, I’ll contribute less.
We’ve been living on one paycheck for over a year now and saving/investing the rest. We are still relatively young and can take some chances. I think if I wait 5 more years, I won’t be able to take those chances anymore.
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I think you are about where I was circa 2010…it took me another year to finally say enough was enough and make the jump. Granted I wasn’t making a 6 figure salary, but I don’t think it would have made a difference. And your 6 figure salary where you live would probably be comparable to my $60k in semi-rural PA.
You could leave your company for another engineering job and yeah it would probably gain you another 3-5 years before you were in the same funk again.
Sometimes you need to strike out on your own. The freedom and responsibility is good for your soul. You have the income from your investments, you have your wife’s income, the worst that could happen would be that you would fail and need to go back to work after a year or two. The worst that could happen if you stay is that you could become a bitter angry old man who feels as if he gave up on himself when he didn’t follow his heart.
I know we will soon hear of the new chapter in your life.
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I do think that the internet personal finance blog is over-saturated. However, if someone enjoys writing I would imagine there are other lucrative topics. There are so many ways to plan a semi-retired income. Even as I am preparing for my new career, I keep my eyes open to other possibilities. Consulting and/or writing comes to mind. I would imagine that someone trained as an engineer could find a speciality niche that would provide some income. And there are practical skills than can provide income as well. A guy sharpens knives at our local farmer’s market about once a month or so. Nice side business. Another guy I know bought a portable brick pizza oven on a trailer and makes the most amazing pizza ever. He used to do it for fun mostly, but now he is starting to develop a serious side business. I have been trying to talk my kids into developing some skills so they can an income beyond shoveling snow, babysitting. A young person who enjoys children and picks up some clown/magician skills can grab work at children’s parties. I personally would love to hire someone to take me shopping and help me get a decent work wardrobe. But people have asked me to help them learn how to shop yard sales or hold their grocery budget down. I don’t charge, but I could…
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My father-in-law retired two years ago because it was easier than finding a new job. They can easily afford their lifestyle on my mother-in-law’s salary and still have plenty of money to spoil the grandchildren.
Personally I don’t see myself ever retiring as long as I’m physically able to work.
That said, I support Joe’s decision. If you can afford to live without the salary and the thought of not having a “day job” doesn’t form a pit in your stomach, why not? You’re happy and there’s a job opening for somebody else. Win-Win.
As far as the argument that for every blogger that makes it, there are dozens that don’t: it misses the point that Joe IS making it. If advertising goes away, then he could write an ebook. As he pointed out in numerous comments, there will always be away to make money on the internet.
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Great discussion.
It seems to me that Joe already made up his mind, and is already moving towards his goal of leaving the engineering world. Some of the reasons he presented seems somewhat contrived, but the reasons don’t really matter when one’s heart is set on a new direction. One can only hope he has looked at all the risks and all the potential downsides and is prepared for it all.
(I do agree to a previous poster that the blogging world seems in an oversaturated bubble. Too many bloggers writing, and all the bloggers are reading each other’s blogs, etc….)
So, I think he deserves encouragement for following his dream. Yes he is taking risks obviously. He already said his performance is suffering at his good job.
I want to comment on these lines:
>>”The big problem I can see is that I won’t be able to add as much to my retirement saving if and when I take this pay cut. I’ve been maxing out my 401(k) contribution for over 10 years, though, and I’m fine with not contributing for a few years. Once I earn more money again, I could restart contributions to the retirement funds.”
When one is self-employed there are MUCH better options for putting money into retirement accounts. The laws regarding Keogh allows a much higher annual contribution than 401K.
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Whoa – you’ve got a kid? How are you going to save for his/her college? What happens when your wife gets burned out or resentful that you get to spend the day at home with your child while she has to be the main breadwinner? I totally get the burn out. I’ve been a trial attorney for over 25 years. I’m sick of it and I’m sick of the office politics but I am forcing myself to hang in there another 10 years or so to finish paying our kids’ college, pay off the house and completely fund our retirement. One thing that really helps me adjust my attitude is to spend some time each day socializing with my coworkers. It makes them more human and makes the work environment much more enjoyable. I’d be thinking really long term if I were you before I’d walk away from a 6 digit salary (with benefits). I also reduced my work week to 4 days a week which allows me time with the grandkids. That helps keep me going.
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Jim, you job sounds really stressful. Hope you can handle 10 more years with minimal side effects.
I’m pretty sure I can’t stick it out another 15 years. I’ll go nuts and my health will not hold up.
Yes, we do have a kid. We are contributing to the 529 now, but will probably have to cut back with the income reduction. He can always get a loan if needed. Hopefully, in 18 years the rental income will cover his tuition. Or else we’ll sell some of the rentals.
As for the Mrs. We’ll see, but I’m pretty sure I’ll contribute enough to the family to not be resented.
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Joe,
I get the whole “health concern” – that I really, really do understand. However, the older you get, the harder it is to keep on top of your game – job-wise. And giving your son a debt-free education is one helluva gift. I never had that and neither did my spouse. We’re giving that to all of our kids. I understand the wanting to be a HUGE part of your child’s life ’cause their little for such a short time. However, financial security is huge. My spouse and I worked flex hours to ensure we were with our kids as much as possible and still be financially secure. I also gave up having to be a perfectionist. That was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done ’cause I was always the “go to” guy. Well, I’m not that guy anymore, but I am still making 6 figures working 4 days a week. Granted the 4 days I do work are LONG, but that frees up almost 1/2 my week to do as I please. And once I gave up having to be the “best”, wow did things at work stop being so difficult. Hence, I was more relaxed and actually learned to start liking my job (and coworkers) again. Still hate the politics, but that’s just a part of life. I’d just hate to see you walk away from that job only to find yourself needing it or something like it a few years down the road and to discover that you’re no longer qualified ’cause you haven’t kept up your skills AND you’re older and much less likely to be hired.
Whatever you do – best of luck. I would urge you to think long and hard about what’s in your family’s best interest and to see if you can’t find ways that work for you that make your job satisfying without the adverse health effects. Mind over matter can go a really long ways.
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Jim, I really appreciate your comment here. I know it will be almost impossible to get back into the field. My co-workers who left are having a very difficult time finding employment.
Giving a lucrative salary is kind of crazy in this economy…
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If and when and after you make the jump, there will be much more time to reflect and plan other moves. Consulting, writing, landlording, whatever… And a lot more time spent @ home with the kiddo. That, you can’t get back.
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I think it’s worthwhile to consider a trial year or 6 months as a blogging / working sabbatical. See if you really like it that much when it becomes your main job rather than diversion from your job. The occasions where anything is really “too late” are pretty rare, moreso since (I believe?) you’re under 40 y.o.
You might find (as I did when I was self-employed) that you don’t really make a very good boss to yourself. You might realize how much you miss working with others in real life. You might learn how to set better boundaries in a workplace by getting out of that environment for awhile. You might not make a very happy house-type husband and father. There’s no shame or harm in trying stuff on and learning what really works or doesn’t. What works for someone else might not work for you but you won’t know until you try.
Taking a year or two off isn’t a big deal when you’re under 40 – I’ve done it myself. I’d seriously think twice about it if you were 50+ and hadn’t fully funded your retirement needs though.
More than anything, it sounds like you need some serious time off to clear your head and gain some clarity. Your company doesn’t sound like one of the best work environments to me – I’ve seen first-hand how companies can rig those little contests though. The one that I worked at that won one of those things was the worst job I’ve ever had.
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That’s a good suggestion. I took 3 months off last year and I had a great time. A year off will be a much better indicator.
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Joe, 3 months is still “vacation mode” – wait until you realize that this is your new LIFE and it can become same old, same old pretty darn fast.
I was thinking about this some more and I’d do whatever I could to try to pull back but keep some job security. When we’re under stress, most people tend to have “all or nothing” thinking – that whole “take this job and shove it” mentality. The best plans are often “AND” kind of plans though. Try to have your cake and eat it too.
I’ve been where you are and that’s what I didn’t try to do – I did what you’re wanting to do. I regret that now since I’d have been FI a heck of a lot sooner.
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The “doodads” you speak of matter to somebody – if they created 0 value, your employer wouldn’t be making any money from them. There’s got to be more constructive ways to rectify the divergence between your career expectations and your current job’s demands. Even if you needed to leave your current job and its safety net, there are ways that you wouldn’t need to throw away 15 years of work and presumably time/$$$ of college. In the end it’s a free choice, but the free market will pay you according to the value generated. Note that your blogging salary is 1/10th of your current job. That means something.
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I wanted to re-thumbs-up this, now that I read it again.
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You are right and I’m sure you have one of these doo-dads at home.
How much money do you really need though. People change careers all the time. I don’t think I am throwing away 15 years of work and experiences. It got me where I wanted to be and it’s a stepping stone.
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Just want to say good luck with whatever you decide. It sounds like you’re putting a lot of thought into your plan.
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I have a great solution for you! Start taking it easy at work. Think of it as just a paycheck. Slowly build up your blog while doing the bare minimum at work. You won’t get promoted, you won’t get big bonuses, you won’t get large raises, but you won’t get fired.
If you get laid off, take 2 years of Obama money and go to Thailand and do whatever middle aged men do there..
Have fun!
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Obama money? Is that unemployment? Only paid if one is actively seeking work after having lost a job for another reason than being fired, and discontinued if one is out-of-town.
What do many foreign male tourist do in Thailand? Participate in the sex trade, which is highly exploitive of young Thai women and the Thai culture in general (spoken as someone who has Thai relatives). This is a legacy of the U.S. military’s Vietnam era R&R in Thailand and has had a huge social costs for poor families and women in general. The sexual disease and frequent heart attacks among the elderly sex-trade tourists does not compensate for the sexual slavery.
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Life is a matter of choices and multiple streams of income. I like the idea of including as many sources of income as possible. If you are unhappy at this company, investigate another. Build up your rental property, dividends and blog income. Nothing is assured in life, so do it all.
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For everyone saying someone shouldn’t quit a job they dislike & find stressful, while I’m very sympathetic re need to stay current, worry about future income, etc., I think people are missing one consideration – health. It doesn’t sound like Joe’s situation is utterly desperate, but how does anyone know? My husband left a full time position at my urging after the stress of a truly nightmare job landed him in the hospital multiple times. Yes, we have less money now. I am working, at a decent but not exceptionally lucrative job. He’s been slowly building a career in a niche field, and it pays very little and is part time, but he’s happier and it is growing. I don’t give a d**n about the fact that we don’t go on vacations or buy fancy clothes or dine out. We don’t even own a car. But I have my husband. He’s not only alive, but has been able to get off all heart & blood pressure medication – he’s fine now. That’s what matters. And if Joe wants to leave his job, that’s his business, & his choices as to how he manages are up to him & his family.
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Rosa – your story seems more interesting. I have nothing against Joe leaving his job and starting out in a new field. He may need a change. He may love a change. If he can find success and happiness, that’s great. If he doesn’t, he’ll find a way to survive.
I just think there is something else about this article that is rubbing people (like me) the wrong way. It may be the way it is written, which is a bad sign for Joe and his potential career as a writer.
There are so many stories that are popping up in these comments that seem so much more interesting to me than some burned out engineer who sees others getting rich of blogging and wants to take a spin so he can retire by fourty. Yours included. Good luck to you and your husband. It’s great you have each other to lean on.
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Health is one huge consideration for me. I didn’t talk about it much, but quite a few people in my group passed away. I can’t blame it all on stress, but I know my health is deteriorating as long as I stay in this stressful position. I’d rather be a bit poorer and be around for the family than 6 feet under.
Thanks for sharing.
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That’s such an important consideration. Good health isn’t guaranteed and it’s a priority to spend time with our loved ones. Sounds like you’ve thought this through and saved money for it. I may have missed it, but have you set a timeline?
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I’ll be 40 in 2013, but I might pull the trigger this year…
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Ahem, its easy to walk away from a solid income when you have plenty in the bank.
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I walked away from a six figure job last year, with a similar mindset, sizeable savings, and a sense that I wanted to do something somewhere else that was more fulfilling, or work for myself. Like many people lucky enough to keep my job in the years after 2008, I was working flat out. However, my experience was quite difficult:
1) I thought it would be simple to shop my skills on the open market, having worked for 15 years and always been successful in my former companies, but the reality is that this is a highly competitive economy, a buyer’s market, and many, many people are on the outside trying to land those freelance gigs
2) costs such as house payment, healthcare and emergencies add up quickly, and it can be quite scary to have to deal with those, and start projecting the month when your resources finally run out. After a health scare, and 000s of dollars in flood damage, I decided it was best to find an employer to pay me for my skills, and let them pick up the tab for healthcare and catastrophic coverage
3) one of the hardest things to explain in an interview (or networking conversation) is that you walked away from a perfectly good job,when so many other highly qualified professionals are out of work for 1,2 or 3 years. In the end, I had to gloss over the fact that I walked away from a job, because of the questions of judgement that it raises
4) it is very hard for a 35-45 year old to “try their hand” at something new in this economy, even if it is for half your current salary. Most employers will assume that you will walk the moment things get better. Employers just want to hire people who can do exactly the same job as the people they are replacing: same pedigree, qualifications, similar industry background. In the end, I found a similar six figure job at a new employer, and I am working to rebuild my balance sheet. I will try to develop a sideline in my spare time.
My two cents: by all means try to build a new career on the side, and see if you can secure some clients and revenue, but until it is clear that you can go it alone, stay in your current job. You only have a few years of peak productivity and wealth generation, which you and your family will need for many years to come. Even if you are sick of the job, go full throttle and laying the groundwork for your new career, and stay in the current job until the moment the head of HR and the security guard escort you out of the building. A six figure job in what is still the most dynamic and lucrative economy in the world is something you worked for, and you don’t want to relinquish it until you know that the alternative will be worth it.
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That’s good constructive advice.
We’ve been banking all my paycheck for over a year now and at this point don’t need it to survive. You are right that building wealth is much easier with the 6 figures paycheck.
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And it’s also much easier for you to walk away from you job knowing that you don’t ever have to work the rest of life. I think you are on the path already. You just need a few more years to build substential wealth to get to that point.
Using myself as an example, I did the same thing you did. Walked away from 6 figure job, but only finding that it was quite hard and not a single mean to build more wealth anymore. I came back to the corporate world. Put much emphasis on building my divident paying porfolio and rentals, like what you are doing.
I still have to work a few more years until I pay off the remaining $450K mortgage on all my rentals including a commerical building. Once I did that, the renals and dividend will completely replace my 6 figure income + benefits, that’s when I will walk without hesitation.
I can retire now, with probably 40% replacement income generated from my rentals and stocks since I paid off 2 rentals already. Can I survive? Yes, but I probably wouldn’t be too happy about it.. I like having a large sum of left over cash to play with my family. So I am gonna work and wait.
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Congratulations on your plans!
I have been in a similar situation two years back. My issue was that I was completely burned out from working 60+ hours weeks. I went through the same thought patterns / plans as you did. However, looking back I figured that I did not need a new profession, I needed an extended time-out. I worked for ~2 years on my side-projects while working 1-2 days a week as contractor for my old employer to pay the bills.
I just returned beginning 2012 to full time in my ‘old’ job, which does not look old to me anymore. I am thrilled working in my job as I now see all the things I did not see before.
What I would do different (and that is my recommendation to you) is to sell what I was planning as a ‘sabbatical’ rather than a new career. Gives you more options down the line and IMO does not change a thing in the plan. People stuck in corporate don’t understand and won’t support what you are planning. They do understand ‘sabbatical’.
Good Luck!
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I’ve got to agree with El Nerdo.
Reading the original post, and his responses to the flood of perfectly reasonable alternative suggestions, it’s clear to me that the OP has already made up his mind and is rationalizing away anything that could possibly dissuade him from it. He feels he’s worked hard enough, and now he wants to kick back and relax for the rest of his life and let his wife carry the load from here on out.
Not something I could do, but hey, it’s his life. If he’s comfortable with it, then as JD always says, “Do what works for you.” To me, it smacks of the classic entitlement attitude that our generation is often accused of having.
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I have a Masters and had 8 years of experience in my field and I had enough. I planned for 3 years, transitioned to part time for 1 year (32 hours per week was part time for me), and then I resigned. We already lived well below our means. Best decision I have ever made (other than marrying my husband and having my children).
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Hi! Kudos to you for being so financially responsible that you find yourself blessed enough to have the option to leave your 9-5. Now my 2 cents…lol…have you ever considered weaning out of a full time “regular job” by taking on a part time “regular job” before taking the plunge? For example, part time teaching at local school/college, the local coffee house, bookstore, landscape management, some contract engineering-type work, or whatever sort of part time employment looks fun and interesting (opportunity to explore new territory!). This could perhaps help you to adjust to your new lowered salary and see if it is a good fit. Good luck in your endeavors!!
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Joe, good luck with your plans. I also work in IT so I can relate with your work life. I don’t think you’re giving up on life at all. In fact, I think it’s the opposite. It’s much easier to stay within the comforts of your current job than taking a risk to do something else. Specially if you’re going to walk way from a good paying career. Lots of parents reduce their hours or opt to stay at home to take care of kids. Other people like yourself choose to build their own business. Whatever the reasons may be and whatever endeavor you pursue, it’s your prerogative. It’s your life, you live it the best way you think how.
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The difference between young parents who do that and Joe is the word “young.” Age discrimination is so severe, Joe will likely be unable to get another job later.
I generally make my decisions in a way that give me the most options later. In this case, Joe, a sabbatical will give you options that quitting and walking away won’t.
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Congrats, I guess, modulo my agreement with most of the complaints above. I just wanted to chime in, as the sole earner in the family, not all of us have this luxury.
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Joe,
We’ve had some exchanges at our blogs and I love the fact that you’re going to pursue something you love. You are going to do great and I wish you all the best!
It’s so important to find balance in life and enjoy what you do. I was in a very similar situation as you are and I will never regret the decision I made to take a $70,000 pay cut.
Sure, a lot of these comments are negative (as were many on my post to pursue my dream job), but it just goes to speak as to what is important in this country: making money (and a lot of it).
It’s time for people in this country to get their priorities in line once again. You’re well on your way!
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I think I would have liked this article if Joe were leaving his job to do ANYTHING but blogging. I agree with Nerdo – free reader stories are only incentive to those who ‘get paid’ otherwise – through advertising for their blog or business, or just cause theyr’e egomaniacs.
Tyler (and the other gal who negotiated a shorter work week from home) hit the nail on the head, there is a lot to write about – but the people who are most interesting – unfortunatly are busy living their lives instead of writing about it.
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I’m so excited to see where this goes for you! A few of my friends are engineers too and they feel trapped since they know it would be really challenging to make as much money doing ANYTHING else, and so they stay miserable. More than comfortable, but miserable.
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Some of my engineers friends enjoy their job and that’s great for them. I also know some that hate working at this company, but they keep coming to work everyday. It’s not easy to let go of a good paying job.
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I do agree with some of the comments that are a little wary of this article. However, they doesn’t like his job, he doesn’t like his job. He isn’t saying blogging is the only thing – and clarified in the comments it isn’t the only thing he is going to do. He already has the income from rentals coming in, already has a nest egg saved, yadda, yadda, yadda.
I get sick of the whole I am gunna chuck my day job to blog too sometimes. But in reality, that isn’t what his article was entirely about. Joe – I think the only problem with your article is that it is confusing, and it screams the whole I am gunno support myself with mainly blogging – even though that wasn’t your intention.
But hey – good for you for not only having a plan to take the jump, but for actually preparing for it by building a nest egg and already having other streams of income coming in (though less than your day job). We have a little bit of too much oh we need engineering people, don’t give that up in the comments. I mean seriously, who care what he is going to jump into if it:
1. is something he likes better and 2. he can make what he needs to make, even if that means it will be a lower lifestyle/comfort than he had before?
And really – maybe the best thing to do is just skip those stories and not leave a comment. =P
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Hey, if he wants to quit, quit. My partner sees applicants all the time who would love to move into a decent engineering job. Retire by forty by all means. Make room on that ladder people who want to work.
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What stuck out to me is that nowhere did I read “I love blogging and this is what excites me!” — it feels like blogging is going to be just as boring down the line. Maybe the benefits of not being corporate will alleviate that, but it’s still a job.
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Maybe you just hit the nail on the head! Maybe that’s what got under my skin.
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You caught that!
I like blogging, but it is just part time work. I will be a stay at home dad when I leave my full time job. How about this – I love staying home and raising the kid. cheers!
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Hate my job.. Love my paycheck.
was going to leave..but my accountant said instead of retiring, it would be better to keep working and have one hellva time spending the money I make and stop funding retirement (that way the retirement funds keep building)
..the plan seems to be working, however I feel your pain.
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I understand all the comments. They are well thought out and all possibilities. I also am on the senior end of things. There comes a time in your position where not much if anything is new anymore. I’ve been shoved around like I’m a youngster without experience and treated with much disrespect. Because they wanted me out. You look at the possible years you have left to live and find that living frugally looks good in comparison to what you do each day. It is dog eat dog out there. I have retired and live much more frugally than most would want to. My health after this first year of retirement is somewhat returning. I have plans to earn extra income. For now I am cleaning out my home. Having garage sales and finding a focus for the rest of my life. I want to minimize. Keep what I love and get rid of the rest. I would hate to come up to the end of my life and be snuffed out like a candle without having had this chance to breath & live.
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So many people are going through something similar, Rita. I agree frugality is the way to go. I used to hear about janitors and waitresses who saved thousands by living thrifty lifetimes but I think most of us are trying to adapt to a changing workplace, job loss and lower income. You are not alone. it helps that everywhere I turn, others are sharing their tips on making it in this economy. Hope to hear more from you in future about how you’re doing!
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I was 30 when I “retired” from the cube farm. My situation was very similar; it was so hard to leave the big paycheck. But totally worth it to live out my values, my dream and dedicate my life to my family. I am very blessed and grateful that my husband has a steady job to provide for our family. I won’t kid you, though. We’ve had to make some major adjustments and cutbacks because we are living on less than half of what we were used to and we faced some major (huge) unexpected expenses. It hasn’t been easy. Totally worth it though. Totally. Best of luck to you!
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Joe,
Just so you know, when I said what happens if/when your wife becomes resentful that you’re staying home with the kid while she’s at work, I wasn’t insinuating that you wouldn’t be contributing enough, and therefore, she’d be resentful. I am talking about real life experiences, where the mom will on some level resent not being home with her baby – regardless of the amount of your contribution. Just a heads up.
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Jim, we are a bit late to the parenting game and just had a kid. thanks for the heads up.
I haven’t thought much about mom resenting spending less time with the kid.
If that happens, then I’ll have to figure something out.
The Mrs. is a workaholic type and she can’t be a stay at home mom. Perhaps if she want to spend more time with the kid, she can reduce to part time and I can pick up a part time job.
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I’d like to say that the mean-spirited comments and petty criticism in some of these posts is frustrating. I started reading this blog a few months ago and overall, the stories have been interesting and I’ve been able to contribute my thoughts and pick up several pointers. This is the second email where there’s been a lot of snarky comments and nasty remarks and for those of us who work all day and have limited time to spend online, it takes toooo much time to wade thru all the negativity to get to the truly helpful responses. I’m NOT an engineer making six figures but I’m still able to learn a few things from this writer’s experience. I think there are some similarities with being ready to consider a change no matter how much you make. At first I was going to pass this one over but I’m glad I read it because I’m actually cheering for him and hoping he carefully plans and makes the best move for himself. Anyone who’s had a loved one who’s coping with a life-threatening illness knows just how important these decisions are. And how great it is to discuss your options. it would be great to read genuinely helpful comments instead of a lot of sniping. That’s my $.02.
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Peach,
Mean-spirited, snarky, sniping comments? I’m not seeing them. I suspect your dealing with a loved one who’s coping with a life-threatening illness is stressing you out – bad! Been there, done that, am still doing that. Dad with Parkinson’s – worse yet, Mom with Alzheimer’s. Lash out at the world if need be – better yet, go get a deep tissue massage. But don’t project your anger onto people who are honestly trying to help another human being. There’s not nasty stuff going on here that I can see. Just honest, hopeful advice.
Sorry you’re going thru whatever it is you’re dealing with. Just don’t be so myopic. Everyone is dealing with crap that feels overwhelming. You are NOT the only one doing that.
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The fact that my post, directed at no one in particular, inspired such a rant from you is a case in point. You’re wasting your time attacking me just because I hit a nerve with you. Just try to be a nicer person online, and treat people the way you’d want to be treated. Wishing you the best. My sympathies for what you’re going through.
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Oh honey,
Please do try dealing with this world intellectually and rationally. YOUR feelings really aren’t going to cut it. Seriously, you need to grow up and get over yourself.
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Everything is “in the cloud” I trust you are being funny, but in case you do not know, NOTHING is stored “in” the cloud. Again at Sterling Forest NY there are tons of IBM servers storing cloud data for a wide variety of firms. I have seen then, nicely labeled. Ann Taylor, etc. So these are not “in” a cloud but in a (GASP) IBM DATA CENTER!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG. So, the list DOES apply, doesn’t it?
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