Reader Story: How My Upbringing Helped Me Avoid Debt and Build Wealth
Published on - April 1st, 2012 (by J.D. Roth) This guest post from long-time GRS reader SB is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success or failure. These stories feature folks from all levels of financial maturity and with all sorts of incomes. SB writes about personal finance and personal development topics at One Cent At A Time.
Some of you might recognize me. I’ve been a GRS reader for the past five years.
I was raised in India, a third-world country by all means, and I’m now settled in the U.S. working as a software technologist. English is my third language. Before I started reading GRS, the word “frugal” wasn’t even part of my vocabulary. But all the financial practices I learned from my parents are nothing less than frugal, though I didn’t realize it when I was younger. We were always a single income family; my mother was married off as soon as she reached 18 (the legal age for marriage) and she never took a job. Instead, she spent her time raising my older brother and me.
My dad was a brilliant student, but in order to support his family and siblings he had to take up a job in a steel company. He completed his Mechanical Engineering degree in the evenings while working full time.
Saving
My dad had to take care of my grandparents, my mom, and two children. He never had enough money. My parents didn’t set a budget, but they always saved a portion of their income. Like most Indian families, I never had a life of plenty in my childhood. When I compare our lifestyle with that of Americans, I find major differences:
- We never had AC at our home. We always depended on fans, even in a hot country during summer. When sleeping inside became impossible, we set up folding cots outside in the yard to get a good night’s sleep.
- I only got new clothes and shoes once a year. I wore hand-me-downs from my older brother, who wore hand-me-downs from our cousin. Our new clothes were seldom ready-made; most of the time, they were either sewed by my mother or a neighborhood tailor. A tailored item was almost half of the cost of ready-made clothing.
- We never had a dishwasher or washing machine. My mother used to wash the dishes by hand, and she washed, ironed, and air dried our clothes.
- We never borrowed money to spend. We viewed borrowing money as a sin. We never had a credit card and never bought anything on installments.
- We always lived in company-provided homes. We could have rented a better place, but saving was always prioritized over location.
- We never had cable television. We only had national channels that were available for free.
- We never discarded any item just because it was old; we always repurposed every bit of clothing, furniture, bottles, packaging, or other valuables.
- We ate out very rarely and only to celebrate something great, like getting a top rank in my class (in India, they still allocate ranks to students, not just common grades) or birthdays and anniversaries.
- We never had a car and my parents traveled on a scooter (a popular transport there) and my brother and I used to catch bus or auto rickshaw (a special three-wheeled vehicle only found in Asian countries) to accompany them.
Before you start thinking that I missed all the fun that childhood brings, let me assure you that I had my fair share of entertainment. We had family outings, picnics, and cultural evenings. We were a close-knit family on both my father’s and mother’s sides. Every year, there were quite a few marriages in the family. Each of these events brought us a couple days of pure fun. We went on yearly vacations, traveling by train and picking places where we could stay with someone we knew. When that option wasn’t there, we booked accommodations where we could cook our own food.
Investing
My dad never invested in the stock market but not because he didn’t know about it. He was well aware of the risks of investing in individual stocks. He did invest in tax-saving mutual funds every year. I now realize that he didn’t have time to research stocks before buying one, so he relied on fund managers.
During my childhood, he bought land far beyond our city limits. It was a barren land, owned by a farmer in desperate need of buyers. This was a brilliant real estate investment idea and an example of planning ahead of time. Along with the growth of BRIC countries, my hometown also got its fair share of industrial investments and soon cities started growing. When my dad sold off that land to a property developer, he got enough money to buy a large enough house and an interest-bearing portfolio that sustain my parents for a lifetime without any direct job income.
My dad always had an emergency cash reserve, which was useful during my grandfather’s terminal illness.
In India, there are no Social Security payments. Indians have to save money in retirement savings accounts, and this money is not sufficient for most retirees. This is where the typical family values come in; every son is expected to look after his parents post-retirement. I still follow this philosophy and remit money to my parents every month.
I think this practice is better than Social Security for several reasons:
- We have to save for retirement. For salaried employees, it’s illegal not to contribute to your retirement account.
- We don’t need a special occasion or holiday to show love and affection to our parents. They are always with us, helping us with daily chores, looking after our children, and guiding them when we work outside the home.
- Our beliefs about taking care of family often eliminate family disputes. No wonder India’s divorce rate is so much lower than that of America or other European countries. Family members act as mediators and never let small rifts take bigger shape.
When I was in my final year of study in computer science, amidst the expanding Indian economy, my dad lost his job (ironically) to the younger, more computer-literate workforce when he was still in his early 50s. But my parents survived due to his retirement savings, the proceeds from his real estate sale, and my monthly contributions (I only need to help because in Indian there is near 8% inflation rate).
His job loss taught me to always be vigilant at work and to learn continuously in order to remain wanted in my field.
Education
In a country with a population of over one billion and only a handful of good schools, it’s always survival of the fittest in terms of receiving a good education. Now (fifteen years after I graduated), the situation has improved, but during my time I had to beat five million other applicants to grab a seat at one of the most prestigious universities.
Since childhood, I was made aware of the tough competition ahead and my every move was centered around clearing that near-impossible entrance test (known as IIT JEE). My dad instilled in me a fighting spirit and a philosophy that I have to be the best in whatever I do. That spirit is still at work; I knew from my childhood that no one is going to do me any favors and I have to achieve all good things in life on my own.
“If I don’t study hard, I won’t get a good education, and without that I won’t earn enough,” was my thinking right from my junior high days. I still follow my hard work philosophy in my job, and people around me consider me one of the most valuable employees.
I am well aware that saving money alone is not going to get me all the good things later in life. I need to work towards earning better income, which could give me a little leeway into having fun (material pleasure) at the moment as well as in the future. I continuously look for new opportunities both inside and outside my organization to increase my salary.
I still practice the tactics my parents taught me. Well, as much as I can anyhow. I take pride in declaring that I’ve never been in debt in my lifetime, and on my blog I teach others to remain debt-free by following a few simple money rules I learned in my childhood.
I’m not asking any of you to lead a life like I did, but with 15% poverty in this country, some of you might want to consider some of the tactics I grew up using: a life of controlled spending, hard work, doing things yourself, a good education, and reaching out to family and friends in case of need.
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I cherish my upbringing of (may be not 3rd, but surely 2nd) world country of Russia and all the things I live by being absolutely normal. In fact, it never seizes to amaze to see what people is US are considering normal in terms of money spending.
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Normal is what average people in your area do. So what is normal in America is not normal else where.
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Agree. I had met a lot of people in mid-country who are farmers and have values that coincide with what I grew up with. Or some of the “old school old generation” friends. Usually it’s people below 50 that frighten me on what they see as “need”.
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I’m sorry, but who raised them to be have such high expectations? No one is born expecting big houses, cars, university degrees and a steady stream of toys and clothing. We learn these values. Some people are lucky enough to have money-savvy parents while others don’t. There are also seems to be this expectation that your children should have more than you did, but that can’t go on indefinitely.
My parents are the voices in my life that remind to have balance in my finances, but sometimes I find myself saying “when you were my age, you weren’t spending on x either.” Then they get it
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In your suggestion where the older generation is supported by their children to the point that social security is no longer needed, what happens to those who don’t have a family to look after them? Or who were raised in an abusive household? Or who just feel they aren’t responsible for supporting their parents in their old age? (No one asked me if I wanted to be born – my parents made that decision on their own and knew the consequences of it). Are any of these scenarios common in Indian culture? There are plenty of examples of it in US culture.
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Yes that happens all the time. Lately a law is enacted, fancifully named “THE MAINTENANCE AND WELFARE OF PARENTS AND SENIOR CITIZENS ACT, 2007 ” Which requires people to look after their elderly parents.
But the loopholes and delayed justice cause wide spread suffering. And it’s not that social security is not needed, actually govt. does not have enough money to pay social security to 1.3 Billion population, of which 30% is retired. (approximate number).
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Wow. I have every intention of helping my parents should they need it, but I’m sure glad it’s not required by law.
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It doesn’t seem that far-fetched or radical to me.
Imagine saying “Wow. I have every intention of helping my infant children should they need it, but I’m sure glad it’s not required by law”.
Well, it is required by law that parents take care of their children. Why shouldn’t the help go both ways to fit the human life cycle? Especially when it’s a well-established tradition in a culture.
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I don’t agree that the obligations a parent has to their infant child are the same as the ones an adult child has to their parents, and goodness knows there are certainly a lot more potential complications in the relationship between the latter. Either way, though, I don’t believe that this type of obligation/responsibility has any business being codified into law. That I could be jailed for not financially supporting my aging parents is ridiculous. If you want to ostracize me, condemn me, vilify me, go for it. But to enact into law that I can be jailed? Unacceptable.
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I didn’t say that this law should apply to you in your society with your centuries-old customs. I said that having a law that mandates children take care of their elderly parents doesn’t seem too radical to me, and I can see the logic in it.
Not every nation and society has the individualistic Anglo-Saxon ethos. People from other countries look at the USA in horror when they find out elderly people are discarded from society and confined to wither in specialized facilities under the care of total strangers. And this is a rich country, so the equivalent in poorer societies where people don’t have investments to spend in old age would be what– throwing senile people out in the street to fend for themselves? That’s bound to become a social problem, so the family has to step in– someone has to be responsible, and a law makes sense in that context.
Come to think of it, even in the USA there are cultural groups where the emphasis is on the group, not the individual, and forced individualism is a kind of government-imposed tyranny– some Native American communities for example have had tremendous cultural shock by being forced to live under “American” rules.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I like American individualism, that’s why I came to this country, but I’m also familiar with other social models that make more sense to the people living in them, and I can see the logic of their laws and customs even if I wouldn’t want to live there.
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The difference is that the parents had a choice, and the child didn’t.
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But Courtney, don’t you see that your notion of “individual choice” is not universal? People don’t see life in terms of the individual everywhere on this planet– the emphasis is not placed on the individual and their choices but rather the family or the community for example.
This stuff you talk about does not make sense in other cultures and societies. It’s very much the product of where and how you live. It’s not a universal truth. The reason our foreign policy gets us into trouble over & over again is because we have this narrow idea that our values are applicable everywhere– *they aren’t.*
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ps- oooh haaa haaa haa!
I did a little digging and found out that the US has “filial laws” in 30 states!!
http://elder-law.lawyers.com/You-May-Have-to-Pay-for-Your-Parents-Care.html
Well, I guess we’re living in an “unacceptable” 3rd-world country after all.
pps- Canada too
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/FamilyLaw/LawArticle-353/Parental-Support-The-Obligation-to-Support-a-Parent-in-Canada.aspx
In 2001, an Ontario man was sentenced to six months in prison for failing to provide his father with the “necessities of life.” The court was divided on the ruling – the father was found living in filth on the ground floor in their shared house, but he had also refused to go to a nursing home, and often stubbornly rejected his son’s help.
more on that here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/family/elder-care-is-about-more-than-duty-its-the-law/article2185366/
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Thank goodness my mother can take care of herself, because as someone living on disability, god knows I cant take care of another human being. I’m also glad we don’t have such laws in this country…
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The idea that children are a choice is also not at all universal. Access to safe, reliable birth control varies considerably by country and region, and many cultures exert strong social pressure on couples (i.e. women) to have large families.
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Dear Becka,
El-Nerdo is absolutely right. The Social Fabric act as Retiral Guarantee in countries which can not afford to give Social Security Benefits.
There is a lot of cultural differences between America and India (though America and Americans both are highly appreciated in India because we consider Americans as fair & just people unlike Europeans). We both can gain from each other’s Strengths.
Regards,
Tarun
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Not really true that in the US you are required to be financially responsible for your children. We have a child welfare program that will pay you to feed, house, and provide for your children (and parent) if you can’t or don’t work. The more children you have the more you get and additionally our government subsidizes low income families with many tax breaks (sometimes even paying back more to the parent than what they paid in). You are responsible to physically care for your children, but not necessarily with your own earned money.
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@El Nerdo — Sadly, there are many more recent cases than that, and Canada just introduced stiffer penalties for elder abuse. I’m not sure what laws are like in the U.S., but here neglect, emotional or physical abuse and financial abuse are criminal acts.
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In Ontario, supporting a parent who raised you is required by law. I know it’s been litigated but can’t recall the specific facts or ruling (although the law itself wasn’t challenged).
From the Ontario Family Law Act: “Every child who is not a minor has an obligation to provide support, in accordance with need, for his or her parent who has cared for or provided support for the child, to the extent that the child is capable of doing so.”
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@ El Nerdo,
To me, there is a big difference between caring for an eldery adult and caring for a child. If I had a child, they abide by my rules, they become more independent and have to do more, they attend public school after 5 years and so I can work and need daycare for only 5 years, I can plan. My grandmother WANTED to stay independent and did until her Alzheimer’s progressed too bad. She was completely unable to stay at home alone and was in that condition for some time. Her expenses expanded and she could sometimes turn violent because she did not understand reality. But she’s an adult with an adult’s size and can turn herself, others, and children.There is a huge safety issue when adults have temper-tantrums, which is completely difference from a 2 year old’s who is much smaller and weighs a lot less.
My husband’s grandmother is having similar problems, but no diagnosis of Alzheimer’s. She refuses to bathe–at all–to the point that it’s a health issue because her skin cannot sloff like naturally happens when we bathe. She does not want to change her undies or her clothes because she’s too cold. She’s constantly wanting more heat. She doesn’t realize that she’s not mentally there. She will turn on the stove top to have tea, but forget to get the teapot.
I think there is a HUGE difference between the countries. Our attitude of wanting our own independence is within each of us–it doesn’t disappear with age, but becomes more ingrained. So here, we have a lot of elderly that WANT to be independent and think they can be independent and are angry that they are forced to move into somebody else’s house and they can’t make their own decisions. When they get to the point of being unable to,it’s because they need to be under supervision–but most American families have dual income earners. There are few elderly daycare facilities and few resources. I know of no person who is looking forward to moving in with their children. The older people I know want their own homes and want their grandchildren to visit them.
There is also a cultural difference with the age at WHEN you have children. If you had a child at 23, your parents would be 46 (assuming same) and full of health and help. They would need help AFTER your children have mostly been raised. But if you have children at 33 and your parents did the same, they are 66 and may have serious conditions, some of which are too difficult or pose safety problems. At that time, the son is trying to raise his own young children while taking care of his or her parents (or if they health issues come up later, he may be elderly himself)
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@phoenix — lots of +1s from me!
One of the downsides of living longer is people survive to develop dementia. It’s noble for people to want to keep their parents out of long term care facilities, but sometimes the danger is too great.
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That problem of the child not wanting to care for his/her parents is solved in some countries by having many children. They all can’t be bad at once. In order to increase the chance of being sheltered in old age, one must have many children to ensure that there will be at least someone to be around. In those cases, there are serious issues on who should contribute more, and the oldest ends having to care for his/her siblings and parents. It’s not a perfect system by any means.
No, this could never work in America unless you decide to raise 4+ kids in a small apartment or house and have everyone live on a margin to ensure your own retirement comfort. Wealthy people can easily have 3+ children and provide each with the comfort and opportunity so they may want to return those favors, but they are already wealthy, they wouldn’t need their children for that.
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Thank you for sharing- I really enjoyed your article!
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My pleasure, I submitted this article 6 months back. JD finally got kind enough to publish. Now when I re read this, I strongly feel like editing the article once again.
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You need to re-think and re-write this piece. Doesn’t come over well to the reader. You’re just an immigrant whose made good. Perhaps you think you’re like Barack O – he never talks about his upbringing which was pivotal. His mother had the sense to divorce his father who was a recent arrival to America with little idea how to live in a developed country. His mother is the hero of his story as she had modern attitudes to women and marriage – have you?
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Sorry to hear that Emma, I certainly promise to do well in the next one. If JD maintains the same kindness to allow me publish another.
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You must be an April Fool’s joke.
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What do you mean by “Just an immigrant whose (sic) made good”?
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Emma, maybe you need to rethink and rewrite your comment. You come across as an offensive bigot.
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Every writer feels the same way!
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Some solace
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Why do you have to self deprecate your own country by saying “third world country by all means”?
Just FYI… All the points you mentioned, it was the same in America just 50-60 years back.
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I see your point, but that was not the intention. The bigger point here is, I am proud of my upbringing in that country.
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“third world country” is a classification, not an insult. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out the facts.
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Thank you for sharing your story. In the US, there are lots of people who have a similar mentality as you do on frugality. I was raised similarly where my parents avoided getting into debt and spending money they didn’t have. They were born in a foreign country, so I guess they were just following the traditions they already had. It was a good thing since we were very poor when I was young and spending what we didn’t have would have been detrimental to my family.
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Not all Americans, even folks who have been here a long time, think that our prevailing societal norms and behaviors make sense! My family (on both sides) has been in this country for generations and we know the only way to get ahead is through hard work, education, and fiscal discipline. We had plenty of money growing up, but my parents taught us not to be materialistic or entitled – our focus was on working hard, education, saving, and appreciating what we had. I am extremely grateful to my parents for instilling these values in me at a young age.
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Great Story! Interesting how much our upbringing affects our financial decisions. The results of my upbringing had the same results in my life. However, I was raised opposite to this and vowed to do differently than my parents who were often in debt and never built any wealth or really understood how it all works.
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How does the expectation of filial piety apply to female children? Are they expected to financially support their parents when they don’t earn the same salary as males?
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There is nothing expected from them. But son-in-laws do cheap in often. Take my example I financially support my parents. My in-laws are financially well to-do and they don’t any support. If they need in future, I can certainly help.
I do see girls helping their parents.. The idea is if you can, you should help the people who sacrificed their lives for your growth
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I believe if people love there parents they will take care of them. The Bible even says you are worse than an unbeliever if you do not take care of your family, this includes aunts & uncles , parents & grandparents too. The Amish/Mennonites have a small house attached to theres for the grandparents like a seperate apt.
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Well, like SB I am also from India and settled here in the US for over a decade. My parents have 2 girls, my sister and I and yes we do take care of them and help them out, though they do have a interest income that takes care of their basic needs.
The main reason daughters were not expected to help in the earlier generation, is because they did not earn an income. Property was not given to daughters earlier (only jewelery and some money) But attitudes have definitely changed in the past few decades and anyway it is my duty to help them back.
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The unintended consequence of this is often the lack of value of female children. While by no means all, there are 160 million fewer women in Asia due in part to this cultural system.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/06/27/where_have_all_the_girls_gone?hidecomments=yes
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This is just a guess, but I wonder if daughters are expected to provide care taking duties – caring for their parents while sick, looking after them in old age, etc – while sons are expected to support them financially?
Though as Maggie points out, maybe the care taking is left to daughters in law, which contributes to the higher value placed on sons.
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Thank you for sharing your story with us.
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I’m a second generation immigrant whose parents endured a lifestyle similar to the one you describe. For myself, I would never want to impose that on my own children and it’s pretty impossible anyway. When you’re brought up in a comfortable way it’s hard to identify with poverty – my children who are teenagers can’t – and I certainly don’t. I’m grateful for where I am right here, and now and don’t attribute it too much to my upbringing. My current success is due to being a non-conformist (and my parents weren’t). My parents, as immigrants, had their successes but they also made alot of mistakes. I’ve taken off my rose-coloured spectacles and I’d urge any other immigrant to do the same. In my book, frugal can be another word for smug so be careful not to let your ego take over!
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I’d agree with Lucille. A developing country has unique problems so there are valuable lessons to be learnt from slum dwellers like “how to live with next to nothing”. America and the developed world is another entity and our issues are centered around using resources in a responsible manner. Human right abuses are rife in developing countries and I don’t want to learn how to save money before I know how to protect my dignity.
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I am a first generation immigrant from India. I think the points presented in this article are very valid. I don’t see how people living in developed countries have that many different problems than one in 3rd world countries. One still has to use their resources responsibly in either case. One still has to study hard and work hard to get somewhere in life. What I do see with kids growing up here (my own kids and their friends) is a false sense of things will always work out even if they don’t work very hard or aren’t really the best they can be. I guess it is hard to get motivated when you don’t see the poverty growing up. Also, south Asian Indians are the richest ethnic minority in USA. So I would give some credit to their upbringing that made them they are (not that money is the only measure of success).
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We need to be careful here and looking at the reader and making sweeping generalizations.
SB mentioned that South Asians are the richest ethnic minority. This is true partly because of the kind of South Asians that initially settled in America. A disproportionately high number of them are either doctors, engineers or IT folks (difficult areas of study, high income). The smartest people will do well no matter what environment they are put in. Our own poster is an IIT grad and would have most likely had the choice of the creme de la creme of the jobs available in India.
I am a person who grew up in India around a lot of privileged kids. A lot of them did not have that ethos to work hard and make a name for themselves primarily because they grew up in so much comfort that their ambition was all but dead.
Having said that though the high level of education + strong family structure is IMHO, the reason for the success of S. Asians in America. The best way to see this is to compare to the South Asians of Britain where a vast number immigrated without any sort of college degrees. The difference is immediately apparent.
Overall I would say a good article, lots of lessons to be taken away.
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Thank you, SB! You’ve given us an inspiring story that also gives insight into your country and its traditions. By sharing your story, you have given us many good ideas to adapt to our own lives.
Your premise about the importance of upbringing rings true to me. My mother was raised during the Great Depression and it served as a foundation for the way she raised her sons. My own inclination to work hard and avoid debt is largely due to the way she led our family, and lived her own life.
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Thank you art. Some one said we learn most of the things from our day-to-day life and not from the text books and lectures.
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It seems like you were upper-middle class by Indian standards, and downright wealthy after the land deal.
Just wanted to point out two areas where this story is missing a gender lens. It’s not just sons who are expected to take care of their parents. It’s the son’s wife who is expected to do all of the actual labor involved in caring for the parents, and if the daughter-in-law is not available (in the US, for example), this falls to the daughter.
Also, lower divorce rates in India have little to nothing to do with family mediating problems! There’s lots of research on this, and the two main causes are: 1) cultural taboo against divorce, making people stay unhappily married instead of getting divorced (divorces in all countries increase as it becomes more socially sanctioned and 2) massive gender inequality, leaving many women with few options other than to remain in unhappy, sometimes violent marriages because they are economically dependent on men. In some parts of the country, they will even be killed by their family or their husband if they try to leave. I really wouldn’t romanticize India’s lower divorce rate. It’s hardly an accomplishment.
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I admit everything you said is right. You surely know this subject well. Yes, there are massive gender inequality there. Not that much in cities but mostly in rural areas.
As you said, I can’t agree with you enough about the top reasons for low divorce rate. My article is about finance and not about social aspect of Indian society. So I briefly touched on that subject.
Its also true that daughter-in-laws do all the parental care tasks and sons only contribute with the money.
The family I grew up in was traditional and middle-middle class. My parents are not rich even after the land deal. I do send them money every month.
My family was not at all male dominated. My mother was equal decision maker as my father. I am glad you brought up the points which would kind of fill the gaps to my story!
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I think its a mix of both , fear of society and respect for sanctity of marriage. It varies based on person to person, depending on their upbringing, education and the family they are from. But generally speaking, divorce is acceptable even in India, if the relationship is abusive. But yes we do not divorce if we are unhappy in a marriage or if ‘we have fallen out of love’. Because we are taught that relationship undergo different cycles and sometimes it is better to put up with it. May be because it is more of an emphasis on family as a culture than on individualism as here in the west. I do not know if one is better than the other though.
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Very nicely put DR!
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I think the point of the article is that some sacrifice and compromise at an early age will help us appreciate the road to wealth in our lives.
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I think education made the difference. Children with an educated parent, or parents who stressed the importance of education, are more likely to become successful.
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Excellent story. I appreciate being reminded that some cultures still value their elders instead of warehouse them. They also care for their children as a way to continue the family in a positive motion.
Yes, there are some “bad” parents. I know a ton of good parents who have given their ll to their children only to receive a selfish adult in return. I don’t know how being number one by yourself became the most important accomplishment to some in the US.
I am glad, SB, that your parents set a good example. You, in turn, will someday set a good example for your own children. And with that maybe, someday, your child will make a difference in the world.
I also, now, understand why I have more and more 30ish friends who are returning to India and taking their knowledge with them….
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People in 30′s returning back is actually a reverse brain drain. hey now see better opportunities to grow in career back home. And off course they have family there.
A will to take care of parents and be with them along with career ambition is taking them back to India.
I think you know that people from India living in US are cream of the corp. They may not be smart talking but extremely hard working and superbly intelligent. That country needs them back for its own growth now.
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Having worked in eldercare, there is far less “warehousing” than people perceive. *Most* elderly people are actively cared for by family members, in their own homes or in their children’s homes. Many people are in nursing homes because of needs that can’t be managed at home: agressive behavior caused by dementia, wandering, care after broken hips, night needs which are impossible for a working person to manage, etc. About 8% of people over 75 are in nursing homes, whereas the perception seems to be that it’s about 50%.
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Who takes care of rest of the 92% of over 75 population? I don’t think more than 50% of salaried workers in US live with their parents.. I may be missing by a few percentage points, still this is a huge gap..50% vs 92%..care to answer please?
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Some are able to continue to live in their own homes with a variety of aids:
* children (often daughters) and grandchildren help with transportation, shopping, cleaning, money management, medication management, yard work, etc.
* home health agencies
* network of friends
* Meals-On-Wheels and similar services
Some live in independent living facilities, adult foster homes, and assisted living facilities. Again, family members typically provide a lot of help as needed.
Some live with family members; enough that almost everyone knows what a “mother-in-law apartment” is.
According to the Medicare site, http://www.medicare.gov/longtermcare/static/home.asp,
“… family and friends are the sole caregivers for 70 percent of the elderly.”
Part of the “problem” is that our healthcare, which is relatively good compared to many developing countries, allows more and more people to live longer and longer, but the added years are not vigorous and healthy. The caregivers themselves are often elderly. For example, my mother, at age 75 was attempting to care for my grandmother, age 100, who lived with my parents. I finally took my grandmother in, although I had four children at home and was working full time. She lived until she was almost 102, when she fell and broke her hip. I had to put her in a nursing home then, because she needed to be in traction and it took two skilled people to handle her bathroom needs. When she developed an infection, I brought her home for the last few days of her life.
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Being over 75 doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll require someone to care for you. I have several relatives over 75 who do not need any special care and life independently just fine.
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Anne,
thanks you for pointing out the large difference in the requirements for nursing home care here versus developing countries. The advancments in healthcare do allow for longer lives – though those lives are significantly harder to maintain. I doubt that people are living at home in India when they need to be on full time life support. In addition – people in the US get married and have children later in life – so the age of the caregiver is much older than in other countries as well.
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I enjoyed your financial history and culture, but you lost me at the chest pounding ethnocentrism you lay out for American readers. Not only do I know from dealing with abused women from your culture in equal numbers to my own that your family system still hurts people, too, I am rightfdfully insulted that you dare assume a
all American citizens only honor parents on national holidays. Learn a culture before you judge it; if you demand that as you do here, then you should do the same or else you’re as bad as the accusations you just leveled.
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I am sorry, that is not true. I didn’t assume that.
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@Diana
He never said that we only honor our parents on national holidays. As a general culture, the majority of Americans do not feel the same duty to their elders as the majority of the Indian (and many other Asian countries) culture does.
This isn’t saying that YOU, Diana, don’t love or honor your parents. Just that you are much less likely to let them live with you, send them money, and move to their city to take care of them, than someone from India. For instance, while I love and honor my grandmother always, I only talk to her on the phone about once per week. Compare that with many families in India that have constant interaction and care.
Yeesh folks, we don’t have to get offended by every little thing. Clearly the author wasn’t trying to write an “AMERICA SUCKS” column, he was pointing out an interesting difference in cultures and how it affected his financial habits.
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Katie I really appreciate this gesture, very nicely explained. Just the words from my heart
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What started as a perfectly decent post about how a person can build wealth by doing without turned into a huge turnoff for me. This became chest-pounding judgement – and outright racist.
1)To assume that all Americans ONLY honor their parents on mother or father’s day is insulting. It’s like saying a religious person ONLY honors his or her deities on a given holiday. That’s just not true.
2)To point the finger at our divorce laws and the freedom women are allowed
a)ignores the experience of Indian women who are stoned, burned, and tortured because of a very dishonorable sense of honor by the men in Indian and elsewhere in South Asia
b)conveniently overlooks that even when divorce is illegal, 50% of your marriages fail to. It’s a universal statistic for a reason. You can’t judge another person’s happiness – you are not God. Don’t assume because someone does it your way they’re less happy than you, or less moral, either.
c)If women were treated with dignity and respect BEFORE they become “knocked up and locked up” then poverty in the US OR in India would not be the problem it is.
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I understand why you felt that tone of the article was judgmental.
But i would like to refute some points you made.
Divorce is not illegal in India, as far as i know, never has been. And we do not ‘stone’ or ‘burn’ women, and if that horror happened, the men are jailed not honored. India is not the West, but neither is it a culture where it is acceptable to stone a women for perceived dishonor.
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I’ve worked as a battered women’s advocate in the US, and with refugees. I have directly dealt with Hindu and Muslim women from India who have had to have multiple surgeries because of these practices. Is it common to everyone? No. But there’s enough popular opinion supporting the practice that the people who try to burn the girls they don’t want to support “as witches,” that I’ve seen more perps than not NEVER stand trial for their actions, let alone end up in jail.
I know perfectly well that divorce is legal in India – I’ve had to help these women find ways to get it for their own sake.
I’m not saying I haven’t seen good things come out of Indian families, and the US is moving back to a multi-generational family approach out of economic necessity. If you read Money Magazine or Kiplinger’s, childrens providing for eldercare is a very frequent topic of financial concern. I had to face this myself with my father’s unexpected death from cancer.
If you’re going to point out what’s wrong with US culture – and yes, there’s plenty amiss – don’t pretend that bad stuff doesn’t happen in your own. You’re just as damaged as we are, you’re just damaged differently.
Or just focus on the fact that we are both people who got fed up with the British at some point.
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Of course bad and evil stuff happens to women and women have more freedom in the West, but what i tried to say was the law does not condone atrocities against women and for the most part the culture also respects women (It’s not prefect). And i have realized that economic independence for women adds a lot of self-esteem.
Of course there are tremendous positives in the US, and sometimes it amazes me that people who have lived here all their lives cannot see the positives.
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How the British angle comes in?
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Dear Diana,
I request you to please get your facts straight about stoning women. We are talking about India not middle-east, Pakistan or Afghanistan.
Regards,
Tarun
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Wow, you are reading way too much into what he says in this article. He’s pointing out some aspects of his upbringing that have affected the way he makes financial decisions as an adult. At no point in the article is he saying that Indian culture is completely better than American culture, or vice versa. Nor does he make moral judgments about the morality of divorce or any other social justice issues. He’s just stating facts about how things generally happen, and giving suggestions about how to make financial decisions. Relax…
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What about the City of Widows? Is that a myth?
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A …, what?
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This was not a “chest pounding judgement” or racist in any shape or form.
This is extremely frustrating. Calling a thoughtful article that ACCURATELY points out some of the differences between how Indian and American cultures views their responsibilities to their elders is not racist. Nowhere did he claim that the Indian system was perfect or that the American system was terrible.
I wish I could bold this next sentence: nowhere in this entire article did he make a judgement based on race. No where did he say that white people don’t love their parents or that only Indian men treat their women well.
I know that this is the internet, so we feel that we can be disrespectful to people because we are only talking to a keyboard, but, judging by his responses to comments, SB is a thoughtful, considerate, long-time member of the GRS community who wanted to share his (very interesting in my opinion) story and how it shaped his financial responsibilities. There is absolutely no excuse nor justification for this onslaught of negativity and insult.
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I really think some people come here with no interest in financial issues at all, they just want to bash someone. It’s sad but I think the article writer knows his article is NOT the problem.
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Yes peach thanks. I am clear to my consciousness that I was never judgmental in the article. And opposing views are fine with me. Every one can express their opinion.
Katie rightly pointed out that we talk to our keyboards while writing over the internet. I am sure Dianna would be just as nice to me in-person as would anybody else.
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racist?? seriously?!
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My question is what happens next? Growing up my family didn’t have much and we lived very frugally. Homemade clothes, homemade everything in fact. I like how it shaped my own thinking about money and my thinking about poverty and opportunity.
I don’t want my own kids to be “spoiled” and I’d love for them to understand the value of money and not take things for granted. At the same time, I don’t plan to spend my whole life pretending to be poor just to get my point across.
So how do you pass your skills and experience along when you aren’t raising your own children in a third world country?
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Such a good question Sarah! While sadly I don’t have children of my own, something that maybe can help is to show your children how you make decisions in order to live within your means. (In an age-appropriate way, of course.)
I think that good financial decisions are more relative than they are absolute. As I mentioned below, my parents were financially comfortable, but they showed me how to save and not waste money within that context. We bought good-quality stuff, took care of it, wore hand-me-downs, went on inexpensive vacations — our lives were about education and being around people we enjoyed, not about spending money as a way to have fun.
I am less well-off than my parents in terms of income. However, I still use what they taught me in the sense that I don’t spend money in order to impress other people, and try to make my resources go as far as possible.
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Sarah, it’s a great question and if you find the right answers, I hope you come back and write a guest story!
I have grown up with much less than we can currently offer our child (first growing up middle class in a country with much lower standard of living and then later being a “displaced person” for a few years). My husband grew up very poor (as defined by having to burn furniture for heat). We now have enough as 2 continuously employed well paid professionals. We don’t generally have a lot of conversations about budgets, bills, investments any more – it’s all automated after the first couple of years of marriage and is ticking along quietly. We also outsource some of the domestic tasks that we have neither time nor inclination to do. So the task of teaching a kiddo about budgeting, planning, and household maintenance is something we need to do proactively, as she’s certainly not going to pick it up by osmosis. She is only a toddler, so I hope we have some time to figure this out!
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We are trying for a baby. I would need this answer soon as well. One problem I see here with our family friends. They can’t go frugal with their kids. The moment they do, the kids become a subject of ridicule to other kids in the class.
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Hi, SB. Just wanted to thank you for a great post. I am appalled with and ashamed of the negative tone of many of the posts here today…frequently it takes a “fresh” eye to see the problems people living within a culture face.
…re the kid thing–it’s difficult but possible to set limits on spending. Although my husband and I were upper middle class when my kids were little I frequented used clothing stores for kids (this only worked well until about age 3–after that the clothing was hard to find because the kids had worn it out.) I also bought used toys at these shops and at yard sales. I switched out toys so that after a week or two some toys went into the closet for couple of weeks and others came out…this helped them seem “new” again. I bought good quality stuff, not junk, so it would last. I sometimes found great stuff that was put out for the garbage collectors and stopped, asked if I could have it (as it happened I never got turned down) and took it home cleaned it up (in most cases repainted it) and used it as presents for my kids. I got a wagon, an art easel and a chalk board this way, among many other things.
Conversations with your kids about money help to some extent regarding why X has the latest thing and we don’t. I explained that everyone varies in what they find important and that their spending reflects that. I also pointed out that everyone doesn’t like the same things (we have different hair styles and drive different types of cars, etc.). I did try to provide a few of the “latest” things provided they were well made and going to last. I would point out the problems with stuff that wasn’t well made. My kids also had allowances and they could save up for stuff I wouldn’t buy. They found out for themselves what was a good buy and what wasn’t and learned to discriminate quality
The biggest thing I would do differently would be to not have TV and limit computer games more than I did. Yes, I know this would be a gigantic issue for most families. I think the easiest way to do it is to not have one from day one when you begin your family.
I had my kids “earn” things like cell phones, computer game time (and time using the car when they were older)–they had to do extra chores beyond the ones they were required to do(the required chores were because they were part of the family and family helps each other out.) I always told them that these types of belongings were priviledges, not rights. good luck and best wishes
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Maybe they should live in a different neighborhood, or send the kids to a different school.
There are good schools that aren’t all rich or upper-middle-class kids, where a frugally raised middle class child wouldn’t be ridiculed.
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I grew very poor in rural Oklahoma and had a similarily frugal childhood. We slept outside on the porch in the hot summers too and I don’t recall anyone having A.C. Vacations were always camping out or staying at a relatives house. I didn’t stay in a motel or eat in a restaurant until I was almost an adult. I sometimes think about that difference when I dine out with my two young granddaughters. They are adventuresome eaters loving spicy Thai and Chinese foods and wield chopsticks like they were born with them! My mother made 90% of our clothing and with 3 girls in the family we wore every garment out. We had chickens, cows, pigs and grew a large garden each year. During the Spring we missed school so we could pick strawberries on the “shares” and in the fall we missed school for the pecan crop. Life for me today might as well be on another planet in how different my life is fom my parents. But, even though I have more than adequate financial resources for my future I know I could go back to living closer to the bone if needed. I don’t doubt that my current level of financial success was influenced by growing up as I did.
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Barbara it seem like my child hood and your were similar. Somehow I feel the glorious past was better than shining present.
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I enjoyed your story SB! I have been struck over the years by how important social environment is to our financial lives. I grew up comfortably middle-class in an affluent U.S. environment. My parents lived within their means, so they set a good example for me in that way. But, the level of frugality SB’s parents demonstrated never crossed my mind; I didn’t know anyone who lived that way until I went to college.
Once out of school, I did things like rarely using A/C (in Texas), bicycling instead of owning a car, thrift shopping, and brown-bagging lunches. Sometimes that separated me from other people, who felt like these were radical acts of self-denial rather than simple ways to live within my means.
Six years ago I moved to a low-income region of the country, and know many more people who live frugally. It is nice not to be the “miserly” oddball anymore.
I would guess that S.B.’s parents, while they managed their money very wisely and I don’t want to detract from that, also lived in an environment where many other people practiced similar frugal habits. That really helps support sensible choices. I would recommend anyone who wants to live simply, to find ways to surround themselves with others who do the same.
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Thank you for your clear, concise and well explained post.
I was reminded that Thrift, with it’s goals, timing, work, discipline and eventual rewards is a way of life in many countries.
This post described your rewards for hard work as you were accepted at a major school of learning.
It also demonstrated the reward of a retirement fund and how important it was when life suddenly changed for your father.
I think what I liked best was your acceptance of your frugal childhood and how this contributed to your understanding of this life form.
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I know this is SB’s experience growing up and mine was similar, only difference was that my mom worked as a teacher. And also i realize this is the India of 2 decades back and not now.
None of the children in my extended family are growing up in the same India. Economic growth has changed the country and the same type of frugality is not possible now.
I do not know of anyone in my extended family without a car or without Ac’s in all rooms or without 200 channels in cable or without their own homes now. Everyone has multiple vacations and eats out at least once a week. Most vacation outside the country once every few years. Consumerism has risen so much sometimes it feels like the west when i go on vacations back to the India. It can be seen in the traffic gridlocks in cities, sometimes it takes 2 hours to travel distances it would take 40 minutes a few years back.
Yes retirement saving is compulsory, government mandates 12% of your salary is saved for retirement (and your company will contribute the other 12%, so in effect you save 24% automatically). Yes there is no social security except for the really poor.
But the country of frugality and less means is gone totally. It can be seen even in small towns. There are pockets of the country which are still poor, but the past few decades have changed the economic landscape completely.
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Can’t agree more, I grew up in the 80s and early 90s. Now when I see my nephew, he has access to all sorts of modern amenities like Nintendo, Xbox roller boards etc. Not that his uncle is spoiling him. His friends do have the same lifestyle.
To the core the value is still in-tact in his mind. He talks about taking his parents and grand parents to vacation for days when he’ll start earning.
I feel so proud of our family values!
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Why the H.E. double toothpick does this article stir such bizarre American animosity—right off the bat— in regard to assisting elderly family members, divorce rates, and American elitism? “I didn’t ask to be born,”???? That’s a tad fatalistic. And, not every divorce is linked to women’s rights. In America, you just get divorced for whatever reason you want. Marriage isn’t a commitment or responsibility—it’s a condition and an indicator when you check the box on a form. Americans are a funny breed that have morphed by generation into a whole new category of eroding individualism. Not all, but enough- are stubborn, greedy, and innately “entitled” by the sheer luck of being born here (and on the backs of those who built it) and then isolate themselves from basic responsibilities whether it be by greed or due to the notion that the government will take care of it. That’s not “American.” As we stand in wait for our lame ducks in D.C. to figure it out(whether it be the deficit, the debt, social security/medicare), I know with no doubt that I will be my aging parents safety net—and through my taxes, your aging parents safety net. This, unlike other entitlements, does not bother me one bit.
SB, I found your article fascinating. It’s nice to leave the box and get a worldly view where family and community still hold a strong position and priority.
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Well put KSR! I too am so struck by how defensive many of the responses have been. It just seems like so many Americans have lost the ideals of personal responsibility when it comes to taking care of themselves and their own. I hear people over and over again in life stating they want less government spending but in reality they only seem to want things cut for other people, not themselves. As long as it doesn’t affect them or their perceived entitlement they’re golden.
I thought it was a very thought provoking post and think we could all take away a lot from the messages given.
(also a great reminder to use your resources wisely and not to waste them).
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KSR and Queeb thank you very much! I just want to think my goal is achieved with just these two comments…
Not at all to devalue the other comments, so, please don’t take it otherwise. No pun intended.
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Thanks Queeb. Frugality is a universal concept for those that don’t covet money and selfishly abuse it albeit for emotional fast fix or “entitled” non-consequence. Family and friendships are far more fruitful and offer more security than any government or emergency fund ever will. When we invest or save for our future…we need to ask ourselves if that is a future–solo and isolated–or shared with others.
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“Family and friendships are far more fruitful and offer more security than any government or emergency fund ever will.”
Unfortunately that’s not everyone’s reality.
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Great article! The one part that struck me was the multi-generational approach to family. Having grandparents watch children while their own children work is something that used to be much more common than it is in the US today. I live in a multi-generational home and often receive criticism from peers about “living off family” when in actuality our home functions much like your story. I have 4 generations in my house and wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Seeing my brother’s children learning from their grandmother and great-grandmother (who is 95 and babysits) is priceless. Imagine the memories they will have from their times with their family, which other children in day care are not afforded. Imagine my grandmother’s quality of life having her own apartment, seeing her children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren daily. What started out as an arrangement of financial necessity has blossomed into an experience that is mutually beneficial.
Is this lifestyle for everyone? No. And I’m not putting down day care or people who put their elderly in nursing homes. I’m simply stating just like SB, my family caring for one another has become a great experience for all and allowed for financial stability.
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I grew up abroad and came to the US in adulthood. Something I observed about the US in the pre-2008 years: many people with middle class upbringings seemed to expect to have a certain lifestyle and spent to get it. There was an assumption that the good life was a birthright for all American citizens, so people were taking out loans to get nice cars, big houses. There was a sense that you had to demonstrate to others that were doing well, and somehow a lot of people fell into that trap.
However,as we all know, things have changed drastically. Americans adapt quickly, and now seem to me to be living much more frugally and are much more serious. A few examples: I see people cycling to work, but just 5 years ago bicycles were a very rare sight on a weekday morning. The job market has become incredibly competitive. Young people are dressing up much more than Gen Xers or Baby Boomers did, because they seem to understand the renewed importance of outward appearance. People are fixing up property if they have plans to move in the future, because they know it is a buyers’ market. I guess this period of austerity will last for another 10 years or so, but the good news is that the debt hangover of the past boom is slowly being alleviated.
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Great article! Thanks for the insites! My husband is 8th out of 12 children in a Native American family. We chose to not have children, and have, instead, been able to help many of the other family members financially and emotionally. Sadly, the family was deeply afflicted over the years by drugs and alcohol; my husband has nearly 23 years clean & sober, now runs his own chemical dependency counseling serivce, and is a strong leader for his Tribe and family. We also have been strong together, for his family and while his mother was able to stay at home during her last days. She was able to have children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren around her until the end. She helped them throughout her life, and they helped her in the end as well.
My relationships with my parents was not easy; my own mother’s constant belittling of my father helped to cause his suicide when I was 18; and, unfortunately, she alienated most of us by trying to mainipulate and control us. On a positive note, both my sister and I have always chosen to “turn the other cheek” and treat our husbands quite differently than how our mother treated our father; and each have loving, wonderful marriages.
Again, thank you for your insights. They were very enlightening! Please write more!
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Wow that’s a powerful story of your life but I agree that how you are raised does impact upon your attitude towards money. I am so grateful to my parents for raising me with a healthy understanding of the concept of money and the concept of not buying something that you can’t afford.
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As someone who sews, I want to point out that nowadays, it is very rarely cheaper to make clothes than to buy them. Patterns can be costly (up to $17 each), fabric of good quality is pricey and the notions are expensive.
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I agree with you there! My mother used to make all of our clothes when we were little and most of hers too (partly because of cost, and partly because she could make what she wanted.) Our clothing seemed to last forever and got shared among siblings, cousins and friends!
These days, it’s much harder to find decent fabric, even if you can find cheap patterns.
Unless you quilt. The money seems to be in the hobby market, not in necessities. It’s kind of funny that what used to be a necessity is a now a hobby for women who can afford it!
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So true! I learned to sew a few years ago, but the only things I sew are my costumesd for the Renaissance fair–they are very expensive to buy so I do save a lot of money by making them myself. As far as regular clothing, though, it’s no cheaper to sew it. Fabric is expensive. I will sew myself something occasionally if I just have something special in mind that I can’t find in the store, but I’m definitely not saving any money.
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SB,
As an Indian American, I can understand where you’re coming from. But I think you’ve made the (common) mistake of comparing cultures. Cultures are complex, and very, very interdependent. The reason why divorce is low in India is not simply because of the emphasis on family, which makes things easier, but the disenfranchisement of women’s rights, which makes things harder. The reason Indians make good in this country is because America takes advantage of a socialized education system in India. (I strongly urge you to read The Karma of Brown Folk for more on this latter topic.)
I’m very close to my family and would take care of my parents, but they feel that life in America is harder day to day (just think how much cheaper it is to get a full-time nurse in India), that they have decided it is their duty not to burden me with their retirement costs.
India is wonderful. So is America in ways that India is not (we have a hearing-impaired cousin who got a master’s degree here–hardly likely in India 20 years ago, no matter how smart you are).
Comparing them is natural, especially when trying to resolve cultural conflicts in your own life, but it’s misguided– the old apple-oranges problem.
Best,
Minal
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@Minal – I totally agree. It was a nice article *but* there was unnecessary comparing of cultures which spoilt it a little bit and which also caused more comments on those tangent aspects than what SB hoped to trigger. I am a European and have been living in India for the past 5+ years. I have learned a lot from the frugal middle class and “lower class” Indians (giving I live in Delhi, not much learnt from their upper class
) about how to not take things for granted and how to curb any wasting. And interesting enough, a lot of things are the *exact same* things my grandparents still like remind us of; both of them grew up during the second WW and spent their adulthood in communist East Germany. Nothing was wasted, ever! However, one has to say that the India described here is not the urban India that there is today. Every middle class household has an AC, one or two cars (Tato Nano and Marutis mostly) and going to the malls on the weekends reminds of a normal Western country when it comes to India’s middle and upper class. One also shouldn’t forget that it’s a minority of Indians (and foreigners who also have to pay for provident fund) that are “salaried employees” thus not everyone pays into a PF account to safeguard their retirement. India is a great teacher of frugal lessons but I agree that it shouldn’t be taken as far to criticize American or Western family values.
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Thank you very much for your article, SB.
I add my voice to those who appreciate your
point of view and who are taken aback at the
uncharitable views of some of the posters….
Thanks again….
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Thank Harm! Actually it’s part and parcel of the blogging thing. Few would support, few would oppose.
Even if Abraham Lincoln run for presidency again, I guarantee he won’t get more than 70% of vote. 30% would oppose him for some reason or other.
No, I didn’t compare myself with Abraham Lincoln, its just an analogy that opposite views exist in life even for the most loved national icons.
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Actually i’d be surprised if it was that high. He’s probably not photogenic enough to be elected today.
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In terms of “voting” in academia, I was once told that 1/3 of the faculty would oppose a proposal becasue it was new; 1/3 would support it because it was new; and 1/3 would vote on the proposal based in its merits. Let’s hear it for that last 1/3!
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From one immigrant to another — thank you. This was a wonderful read.
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I know you for quiet some time, never knew you are an immigrant too
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This story is so common among millions of Indians (and I believe Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, etc) Our success today is largely due to our parents who have made great sacrifices in instilling these values through example and putting family before self. My dad supported his parents, his own family of 4 and his siblings (5 of them) and had to begin working from age 16. He gave us a good education and even though he couldn’t afford it, both me and my brother made it to the top business schools/colleges in US helped by scholarships. Today, thanks to God we are quite well off financially, nobody has taken any debt and save at least 25% of our income. It is these values that I am also trying to instill in my kids.
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I love this story, it is as relevant in Austin, TX as in India. Thank you for your story and the uplifting message it sends.
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Great post SB!! I’ve been to your website a few times but haven’t really taken the time to get to know your back-story.
I could agree more that we, as Americans, take so many things for granted. My wife and I were literally talking about it last night. It’s sad and it will only continue to get worse.
I wish more people could view our country and the great things we have with a different perspective – unfortunately, all of the smart phones, cable television, nice cars & big houses, yearly vacations, and dining out on a consistent basis are all that most children and young adults know.
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The forced retirement accounts are interesting. GW Bush basically wanted to do something similar to social security. A lot of people were critical of this idea because of the instability of the stock market and the fees associated with most mutual funds, etc. I’d be curious to hear more about how this system works in India.
Also, you might enjoy the comedian Rusell Peters. He does a lot of comedy on how “frugal” most Indians are.
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The ‘retirement fund’ mandated by the government is not currently invested in stocks or mutual funds in India, but overseen by an Organization called Employee Provident Fund Org. The money is backed by the government and currently pays 8.5% interest (Used to be 12% a decade back i think). There has been talks of opening it to the markets, but there is lots of opposition to it!
So basically the federal government guarantees the solvency
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I really identify with this post. I’m not first generation but my father was, and my grandmother (yiayia) lived with us and was our second mother. When she moved here she worked at a sweatshop and saved 40K from her frugal ways. She continued to live an old world lifestyle in being frugal, cooking and her garden, and stories from her and my father how they lived, impressed me how one really doesn’t need much to be happy. We don’t have a dishwasher, cable and have 1 used car between us, but I do have to admit it is harder in the US because of comparisons. for example my daughter doesn’t understand why she has to share a room when it seems everyone she knows has their own room. And me saying my sister and I shared a room growing up doesn’t seem to help.
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Great article i think you need a second one soon! My only thing i would say is that company paid housing is very rare where i live. Even a housing allowance is going by way especially in the great recession.
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huh! yes I have started planning for the second..BTW I have my own blog too where I post every other day.
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I like some of the tactics. I feel we are spoiled here. For no fault of our own but recognizing it helps to understand what the world is actually like. I have traveled all over the world and for the most part we have it GREAT.
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Good article! I grew up in a similar way, we just called it poverty. But some of the old habits stick with me to this day, I have AC but use ceiling fans more, I washed dishes by hand for years when our dishwasher went out on us, have few cable channels, share a car, bargain-shop for food. What I like about what you’ve written is that it reminds me of how many things we take for granted that others don’t have the benefit of. And how important it is to life frugally and have a cash reserve!
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Would you really want to go back to those days? At least I don’t. But, I know I can sustain in similar condition though.
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I agree, SB. I like my life, yet there’s comfort in knowing I can sustain myself on less when I have to.
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I’m jumping in a bit late, but I only read this blog every few days. I appreciate SB’s views, but his experience is one of middle-class and upper-middle class Indians. As some have pointed out, the experience of millions and millions of Indians is very different. I read this blog because I am a single woman who adopted two little girls born in India. Neither could be taken care of by her birth family because of extreme poverty or because of the stigma attached to unwed motherhood. I am giving them an upper-middle class American life. We have been back to India and it’s tough to see them process the extreme poverty you see there everywhere and to know that could have been their fate. They are so lucky as are Indian (and Chinese and Korean) immigrants in the States. It takes a great education, which is difficult to get by the poor even with the quotas in the colleges and universities, to qualify for a H1B visa or similar. Study after study has been done about burnings/*kitchen fires* of women, the incredible prostitute problem in India (there are an estimated 200,000 prostitutes in Mumbai alone), human trafficking from Nepal and within India to fuel the sex trade, etc., etc., etc. I hope that many average Americans have learned a lot from the discussion here. While I love India and miss it terribly, it’s culture has as many bad marks as any other.
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Agree with you Lori. India and the Asian sub-continent has its deficiencies. I’m a second gen immigrant and I learnt a whole heap of bad stuff from my parents and extended family. Asian families cover up emotional abuse and there’s alot of that going on behind closed doors. I know several respectable and wealthy Asian parents who beat and threaten their children into studying. Children rarely rebel against their authority and they grow into dispirited adults.That is not healthy parenting and I believe more Asian people should speak out.
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So I have to ask. What if you don’t have children for whatever reason? Do your other family members take care of you in your old age?
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I feel my husbands parents relied too much on knowing their kids would support them. They have no savings, and sent all three of there sons to becime engineers in Mexico. They joined the Navy so they did not pay for their school. My FIL gave most of his money to his mother instead of splitting up the costs with his 5 brothers. I find this to be unfair…but as far as my parents they save and have always lived below their means. If they ever needed it I would glady support them since I know they did not purposely rely in my suoport.
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I enjoyed this article. Thanks for the perspective!
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