This guest post from Robin is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Some stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success or failure. These stories feature folks with all levels of financial maturity and income. Want submit your own reader story? Here’s how.
A few weeks ago, J.D. wrote about how sometimes he feels like a monkey dancing for money. After reading his story, I decided to take a hard look at my own work. I wanted to calculate what it’s worth to me, what I’ve paid to have it, and why I do what I do. I chose to lay out all of my benefits and expenses — not to compare them to others, but to give me a realistic view of how much my profession is worth.
Criminal Minds
I’ve been working as an intelligence analyst in a police department for nearly 10 years. This is the type of job where if the topic of “what do you do” comes up at a party you say “adult day care”, “computer work”, “a lot of math” or anything other than crime intelligence analyst. I’m used to constantly explaining that it’s not quite like CSI, and that if you must know what TV character I play in real life I’m more of a Penelope Garcia from Criminal Minds.
I love my job. Seriously, it’s the best gig I could ever dream up. In real life I could be tracking serial bank robbers one day, then helping break up a child sex trafficking ring the next. I enjoy the fraternity-like environment of the police department. I adore the men and women who are on the streets using my data. And there’s nothing better than catching a criminal. That said, there are some realities of police work that aren’t so glamorous.
I have a union job in a City in the Northeast. (Yes, I know how most people feel about unions, but hear me out.) This City has gone bankrupt in the past, taken money out of the pension fund to cover its debt, and even laid off cops. Because this is a union position, my job is relatively secure which is a great perk. However, union positions don’t have merit-based pay scales, raises are often taken away (haven’t had one in five years and they’re normally just 2%), and we pay dues which can be rather high. While everyone has their opinion of union jobs and the people who work them, I can assure you that it had no bearing on my choice of career.
So what does a crime intelligence analyst make? After ten years of service to a large city police department with a high crime rate, I make about $38,000. This is a good paying job considering the unemployment rate and factoring in the average income in the US.
In order to get this job I needed a Master’s Degree, which came with $70,000 in various student loans. I was fortunate to get academic scholarships for the majority of my education. I also have a pension that I will become vested in at the official ten-year mark (soon). In order to receive a full pension, or 50% of my working salary after retirement, I will have to stay at this job for another fifteen years.
The Benefits
Most people think that City and State workers have it easy because of our pensions. The fact is most of them are disappearing, and the ones that are still around are more like a forced long-term savings plan. My pension requires me to put in $150 per check or 10% of my total pay. Now it’s still considered a benefit to have a pension, even though they’re using my own money to invest for me. I realize that 401(k)s are more volatile and appreciate the security of the pension but I want to clarify a few myths about this benefit.
- Pensions are not free. As I said, they take 10% of my pay to cover my pension.
- If I leave before the ten-year mark I get my contributions back with no annual return. Call it an interest-free loan to the City by everyone who works less than ten years and takes a different job.
- Pensions are not secure. Our Union negotiates with the City every four years to keep our pensions in the contract. If we lose that negotiation, we will get our money rolled over into a 401(k) like many other Cities have done, but we’ll lose out on the one-to-ten years worth of compound interest.
- Unless you die in a work-related incident, your pension is not passed on to a family member, so if you die a year after you retire your pension is essentially void. There’s no inheritance the way there is with traditional retirement vehicles.
- My pension means I forfeited the ability to collect my social security benefits. I’m not sure if this applies to every state, but my state has a law requiring me to send my social security back because I will get a City pension. So, while most people have their 401(k) and social security benefits, I only get my pension.
So here’s the breakdown of my average paycheck:
- Bi-weekly pay: $1500
- Total Deductions for medical, Union Dues, Pension costs, and Taxes: -$625.00
- Take Home Pay: $875
- Student Loan Payment: -$200
- Commuting Costs: -$150
- Total left: $525
Once I calculated this number, I still felt good about the career I chose. But then I started thinking about the “cost” of my line of work.
The Costs
There are immeasurable emotional costs associated with this and any other public service job. It may sound like a fun and exciting career, but anyone in public service — especially those dealing with crime — are subject to the worst experiences life has to offer…and we have front row seats.
How do you calculate the psychological burden of your work? I still haven’t been able to come up with a universal answer to this question, but in my ten short years I’ve dealt with the loss of two officers to suicide, three to cancer, several life-threatening injuries that forced early retirements, and watched countless comrades deal with drug and alcohol addictions. This is the reality of police work. Whether you support or despise your local police, please understand that their burden is the burden of witnessing every single person they deal with on the worst day of that person’s life. It can wear on anyone.
Personally, I have suffered from major depressive episodes, sleepless nights, anxiety attacks, and felt completely hopeless many times. The cost of doing what earns a living in this case is very high. Thankfully, I have reasonable medical coverage for mental health, but I’ve still spent $2,000 beyond my medical coverage in a bad year to get back to a state of mind to do my job well. It’s difficult to put a price tag on your personal wellbeing, but it’s important to factor this in.
Most of my friends with non-law enforcement jobs seem much happier. I realize that happiness is relative. There are many career choices that pay much better, that require less emotional investment, and that can bring personal satisfaction. For me, I couldn’t imagine doing anything else in the world. There are days when I wish I could forget the things I’ve seen or erase the pain that comes from losing a co-worker at the hands of a criminal. But the good days tend to outweigh those difficult ones.
The Bottom Line
One last consideration is that $525 left over every two weeks. $1050 a month sounds like a lot of money. And maybe it is. However, living in the Northeast where a studio apartment costs $1200+ per month, you can see how the math just doesn’t work. I had two choices for housing: get another job to pay for it or move back home. So, I’m back in my childhood bedroom with the extended family (mom, dad, and grandma) making it work and paying $600 a month in rent. I never thought after going to college, graduating with high honors, and serving the public in law enforcement that I’d be still “scraping by”.
I want to end my story on a positive note.
Because of the way things have worked out, I’ve had some wonderful experiences with my grandmother that I’ll never forget. I’ve also learned the value of “things” and have become very conscious of how many hours, or how many crimes I have to see, to balance out the stuff I want. I’m so fortunate to have had the opportunity to get an education, and I am thankful everyday for that. I’m also incredibly lucky to have family who have supported me, and who would tolerate that extra space in their house being taken up by a 30-something with a professional career.
The way I see it, my job is very rewarding — but also very costly. In the end, though, these are things I can deal with and be grateful for the experience.
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Thank you for your service.
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I second this opinion. Wow! This job sounds more like voluntary service for the public good with a small living allowance thrown in as incentive.
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Should the $1,500 a month be $1,846 or so? Or is the $48,000 income wrong?
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I fixed the typo in the post. The $38,000 a year figure is now correct.
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Thank you for your story, I can really relate to the emotional cost of working in the public sector. My mum worked for the NHS for 25 years and by the end of it was burnt right out, and she only worked in a pathology lab, not a front line role like nurse or emergency worker. People presume that you’ve got a gold plated pension, excellent job security, and lots of holiday time, but that’s just not true.
Also $1050 a month is not a lot of money at all! I don’t know how you would survive on that without your parents to fall back on (a sentiment I know all to well, I was recently evicted by a crooked landlord and I’m back at base camp). I find the fact that you even considered getting another job to cover the cost of housing to be very sad. Life shouldn’t be a constant treadmill of working and working and working.
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“Also $1050 a month is not a lot of money at all! I don’t know how you would survive on that without your parents to fall back on…”
Agreed! I would’t be able to live on $1050 a month, especially now that I live in a fairly expensive city (Toronto), where my rent for a bachelor apartment is about $880. Even in a city with lower cost of living, you are still looking at about $400-500 for a small apartment. How can one even try to get ahead (pay off student loans, buy a house) on that kind of money? How do your co-workers get by?
Also $1250/month is a huge amount taken off for deductions. I suspect that the majority of it is health care…
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$1500 gross bi-weekly is $39,000 a year, not $48,000… what happened to the other $9,000?
Just wondering. Great story though! Seems wrong that a professional with 10 years of experience serving the city would have to scrape by on $525 bi-weekly in a high cost of living area.
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I think living with extended family is a great thing. I’ve always been really close to my mother and now my daughter gets to experience that as well (they are thick as thieves) since she’s moved in with us.
My only complaint is how so many people complain about government workers. It really is a sort of thankless job. Thanks for doing your part in government! A lot of us do appreciate it!
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Wow, this is such a great story! Thank you for sharing, I had a very limited idea of the pluses and minuses of such a pension system.
2 comments:
1 – Obviously you love your job, which is great – one more reason to love your job is the fact that you are doing something which not many people get to experience – a job where what you do is neither meaningless nor potentially harmful/exploitative – this is really rare
2 – I recommend this recent planet money podcast on the Mariana Islands (a US commonwealth) declaring bankruptcy in order to not have to pay their state pensions – it is still in the courts, but could make a big difference in the ‘mainland’. I learned a lot from this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/05/29/…/promises-promises
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As a federal government employee, everyone always assumes the benefits are incredible. They are good, but they do not blow away private sector jobs by any means.. most people don’t realize the days of the “free pension” ended in 1987, there is still a pension system but it is much more modest than the old one, and employees contribute a share of it out of their pay, in combination with a 401(k) type system (the TSP). Thanks to congress we have not had a cost of living raise in the last 2 years.
I am not complaining, I like my job, but it always gets me when people assume that because you work for the government you sit around all day waiting to cash in on your awesome retirement package..
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Dave, that’s right about government worker pensions. Many people think the health insurance is free, but my husband pays over $400 per month for us. It’s not the free ride many people believe.
Thanks, Robin, for a great post.
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My husband is in law enforcement in Los Angeles. He contributes 2% of his salary for his pension. No, he cannot opt out of contribution. But 2% is nothing! When he retires from his $120,000 job, he will collect a 90% pension. And he will get his medical paid for in retirement too.
Although I will benefit from this, I feel bad because this is why California is in the mess it is. The retirement benefits that this state carries for its civil servants and teachers is unbelievable.
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Thank you for sharing, and for the work you do. I find it inexcusable that after 10 years of work, a highly skilled, highly educated worker with a high-stress and critical job would be paid so little. I appreciate your statement that it is a well-paying job perhaps as a concession to the politically controversial aspects of government and union workers, but you must be aware that in the private sector you would have a much higher earning potential with the ability to seek unlimited merit-based raises. I say this not to question your choice of work, because there is no question that it is worthy, but I think it should be a factor to be considered.
For myself, the extent to which most state and federal workers are undervalued prevented me from seeking that line of employment. Not all educated, intelligent people are noble enough to spend their life scraping by for a great cause
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It isn’t all states. Also you used to be able to double dip if you’d worked a non-gov’t job, but because of the progressivity of Social Security, people who had worked a few years outside of that specific state gov’t and spent most of their careers with the state gov’t pension made out like bandits. (Basically it looked like they were poor to the federal gov’t so the federal gov’t replaced more of their income.) Jeff Brown at UIUC has an interesting paper on the topic.
My state isn’t one with that system, but I’ve also got a defined contribution plan that’s less generous than most non-state workers’. That’s what happens when you live in an at-will state.
Note that you shouldn’t be paying into social security if you’re not getting benefits. Most of us are paying 4.2% explicitly and 6.2% implicitly through our employers, on top of whatever we’re required to pay towards our pensions (in my case 6% explicitly and 6% implicitly, but this varies). When I say explicit vs. implicit, that’s because it doesn’t actually matter whether the tax is levied on the employee vs. employer– the party who bears the burden of the tax is the one with the most inelastic supply/demand. Wages will be higher or lower to compensate for the taxes depending on who bears the burden.
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I agree – this is a really enlightening, interesting story. It is also very well written.
I loved how it is written without coming off as complaining or in an incendiary way. Very effective in presenting her story!
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You state you make $48,000 a year, then state your paycheque is $1500 bi-weekly. 26 x $1500 is $39,000, a substantial difference from $48,000.
Am I missing something?
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I think that number is supposed to be $38,000? Otherwise, the math just doesn’t make sense.
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That is one way to get a raise… LOL
Seriously, Thank you for your candor!
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Thank you for helping people understand the real costs behind jobs. It’s one thing to herald law enforcement, firefighters, nurses, social workers, etc — it’s another thing altogether to understand what they actually deal with on a daily basis.
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Thank you for sharing your story. It would be interesting to see a post where various public-sector workers shared their pension/retirement benefit information as a comparison. One of the recent complaints I’ve heard in general is that public sector workers make more on average, than those in the private sector. However, they often neglect to consider that more jobs in the public sector require higher levels of education. Hold education levels steady to make the comparison, and the balance changes significantly. (I’m not a public sector employee, by the way.)
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It’s still an open question whether or not once you include benefits and control for education etc. if public sector jobs pay well. I went to a talk recently by Harvey Rosen from Princeton where he tried to tackle the question, but I wasn’t convinced by his work.
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I work for my state government and make $58,000 annually and contribute almost 7% to my pension. I still contribute to social security though and will be able to collect that when I retire. That is a HUGE difference between Robins plan and mine although I won’t collect 5O% of my salary in retirement. Ours is a complicated formula but it will pay roughly 25% of my salary. I too love my job and I am a registered nurse with two bachelors degrees. I could definitely make more money in the private sector but I love what I do and the people I work with. My workplace is not unionized but like Robin, we rarely have raises and it is commonly accepted that the only way to increase your pay is to apply for a higher level job. I consider myself very fortunate though as I have a job that I am happy to get up and go to. Thanks to Robin for sharing her story.
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I’m in the public sector and employees in my position generally work in the public section only for a year or two because they can get a job that pays twice as much in the private sector. Most of the people who stay in my field in the public sector are married women who have a working spouse. We’re losing another amazing employee within the month.
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Great post and I feel the exact same way. I landed what is my dream job with the government. When I graduated college (accounting) I wrote down exactly what I wished I could do with my degree and after a detour through industry and public accounting I finally have the job. It is with the State and is such an awesome job.
However, government jobs, despite what most people think, are not easy street to fast money and amazing benefits. A lot of people point at the pension, but I know for a fact I get paid at least 20% less than I could at “not my dream job” in industry, because I was offered a 20%+ higher salary more more than once during my job search. Plus they take 6% of my pay for my pension. So, assuming I kept my expenses the same if I took the alternative job I could save 26% more money at the industry job than this Government job. I am pretty sure 26% a year of my salary for 30 years (the time it takes to get a full pension which I believe is 60% of the avg my 3 highest annual salaries) would way exceed the value of my actual pension. There is pretty much no way I would come out behind. That is before you factor in the very real risk of my pension benefit changing between now and retirement, which is highly likely. To be fair, the pension also includes medical coverage (again, as of now, a lot can change before I am eligible) but even factoring in that I don’t see how 26% of a higher salary for 30 years (and really even more because I save additional parts of my salary now) could provide me at least an equivalent income.
Oh, and by the way all this is under the assumption I am going to work 30 years. As a Get Rich Slowly (and other sites) reader I am gaining the tools to save and invest and retire early. I don’t have to “get my 30 in” for my benefits at a private sector job, I merely get the money I need and walk out the door. My biggest fear is say I am 19 years in and have what I need to retire but instead I handcuff myself to the job. At 20 years (my retirement goal is 20 years from now) I can get a partial pension and health coverage (subject to change) but even then, am I going to be afraid to leave the Government if I have say 14 years invested for a better opportunity. To me, this weighs on me as much as the salary and benefits. Right now I love my job, but they could defund the department, have layoffs, or restructure and I might end up in a crappy job in a different Agency. If I am 16 years in would I suffer it out for 4 years of my life (and I only get one life!) to get these benefits? The answer scares me.
Like you, I love my job. Right now money is not an issue, I am single, have no children, and live pretty simply, with no expensive hobbies. However, I already realize that once I have a wife and children I might have to follow the money, not my dreams. When it is just me, a small salary is no big deal, but when I have to provide for others I lose this luxury. By the way, my salary is not tiny, but compared to what I could make elsewhere it sure is!
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Who exactly is “taking” 6% of your pay for your pension? Sounds more like enforced savings than theft to me. Do you honestly think that private sector employees have their 401 contributions made for them by their employers? We’re lucky if we get some matching, but it’s only on what we save out of our paychecks. The 6% portion of your argument is so murky that I think I must be misunderstanding you. Can you please clarify?
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With a 401K you can opt out and not participate. You typically cannot opt out of these amounts taken from your pay for the pensions in government, so it is taken.
It’s no different than saying your salary is $50K a year, but they take Social Security at 6.2% or $3100 a year and you don’t get much of a choice in it. In the case mentioned he’s stating they take 6% for the pension he gets no choice but to put in and adding that to the 20% imagined increase in other salary so if he moves to the private sector he would have 26% to invest as a real salary increase.
However, he may be forgetting if he isn’t paying into Social Security already it will be a wash since instead of the pension he’ll be putting into social security.
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Thanks for helping find the bad guys. I’m glad you like your job and am sorry for some of the stuff you have to put up with. Hopefully everything works out in the long run and you seem pretty happy so that is great
Keep up the good work and go get some more bad guys for us!
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A very well written and informative posting. I found the issue of the mental health effects of a position that deals with the dark side of society to be sobering. Thanks.
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Robin, thanks so much for doing the job that you do. It’s vital. I see where the math doesn’t work. Here’s a thought: your commuting costs are kinda high. Maybe when you eventually have enough saved to move out you can move closer to work and then save a lot there. Best of luck
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I’ve never thought about the psychological toll of my job… It has stressful moments but so far I’ve never found it particularly debilitating. I definitely don’t have a high-stress position like an ER Doctor or something.
I’m surprised you only make $48,000 after 10 years of service AND a Masters degree. That seems really low. But I imagine this is due largely impart to not receiving a raise for 5 years =\
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Robin corrected that to $38,000 (see #18 above). And J.D. made the change in the original post.
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Interesting post. This is a similar situation to my wife and myself, at least until I graduate. thank you for sharing.
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Mostly, what I got from this article is that I should discourage my daughter from going into police work: it’s stressful, the pay is lousy, and she’ll be living in my house for the rest of her life.
Also, if you can’t afford to move out of your parents house, your job is not “good paying”, no matter how many caveats you include. This could even be the definition of “good-paying job”: “a job which affords the employee the ability to comfortably move out of his or her parents’ home and be self-reliant”.
But I’m not sure the article really addressed the topic in the title: what is the real cost (or value) of work? Are cost and value the same thing? What about all the other jobs out there besides police work? What if you’re a vet, or a mechanic, or a farmer? Another commenter also mentioned that police work was one of the rare jobs which was neither meaningless nor exploitative. I disagree that these are rare, and hold up all the jobs I just listed as examples to the contrary.
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Carol, my commuting costs are high and that’s one area I always dread calculating because it feels like money thrown away. My goal is to pay off my student loans (down to $22,000 now. YAY!) and then that will free up enough money to change my living/driving situation.
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Have you looked into any loan forgiveness options for people who work in the public interest?
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Yes, I’ve looked into the law enforcement forgiveness and I will get to $0 2 years before I’m eligible. Also, I borrowed that money, I owe it in full. I don’t believe that it’s right to take out a loan and not pay back what you owe. It’s just not my nature.
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Thanks for pointing out the reality of public pensions. We pay in 7-10%, our employer pays in 5-7%, similar to Social Security. It’s a mandatory pre-funded pension system, not a gift of public funds!
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Comparing Public and Private Sector Compensation Over 20 Years
Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. State and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23 percent of private sector employees have completed college, as compared to about 48 percent in the public sector.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants, such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11 percent less and local workers 12 percent less.
During the last 15 years, the pay gap has grown: earnings for state and local workers have generally declined relative to comparable private sector employees.
The pattern of declining relative earnings remains true in most of the large states examined in the study, although there does exist some state level variation.
Benefits make up a slightly larger share of compensation for the state and local sector. But even after accounting for the value of retirement, health care, and other benefits, state and local employees earn less than private sector counterparts. On average, total compensation is 6.8 percent lower for state employees and 7.4 percent lower for local employees than for comparable private sector employees.
Read more here: http://slge.org/publications/out-of-balance-comparing-public-and-private-sector-compensation-over-20-years
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What I really like it twenty plus years ago when I was looking for a job the companies I interviewed with brought out the government benefits as the bottom of the barrel with respect to benefits and demonstrated how they were much better.
Now the public is being sold that the bottom of the barrel is the gold standard and we all need to shoulder a bigger burden.
Funny how that worked out to the companies favor.
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I did calculations ages ago on how much government benefits would be worth. And in many cases an individual in private industry would need to make an additional 15-30K per year to make up the difference.
There are details missing from your analysis to even make a comparison as to whether 38K is reasonable. Details such as retirement age, retirement pension percentage, retirement medical benefits, and whether or not you pay into social security.
Simply put you may not get paid much now but you will continue to get paid for the rest of your life. That is something that doesn’t happen to someone working in the private sector. In order to get a similar lifetime payout, a private sector worker would quite frankly need a substantial nest egg to buy an annuity that would pay out an equivalent amount.
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1) There is no medical benefits on retirement. Those were taken away during the last contract negotiation. Which means I would be 50-something at retirement with no medical coverage.
2) The pension is 50% if you make 25 years of service. After 10 years you get 20% roughly. There is no cost of living increase on the pension.
3)We do not pay into social security since we do not receive it but the state and federal income tax is higher since that social security money is not taken out. If I were to take a second job I would have to pay SS money but not be able to receive it at retirement.
4) I currently am required to contribute 11% of my income toward my pension. This may go up during the next contract but it will never be less than 11%.
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1) If there are no medical benefits in retirement then that will put you in the same place as a 50-something private worker. And with health care costs for the elderly at least probably 10K/year now, you’d either have to keep working into your 60s, get a job in the private sector with health insurance, or work just enough each year to pay for insurance (which would probably be around 25% or so of your income). But, at least you should have the benefit of job security at that age which private sectors do not.
2) No cost of living increase. Ouch.
3) Social Security taxes do not reduce ones income tax liability in the private sector unless one is self-employed. But self-employed pay twice as much social security out of pocket so the deduction doesn’t make up for the increase.
4) 11% of income will net you a 50% pension in your 50s. A private sector employee will pay 6% into social security but most will not get the equivalent of 25% social security pension in their 50s (although social security is pro-rated so some people on the low income scale can come out ahead…people on the high income end subsidize the lower income earners). Social Security is essentially the private workers public pension (although it is adjusted for inflation). So, you do have to look at your contribution versus social security taxes both ways.
When I have time, I can run some basic numbers on your scenario and show you what an equivalent private sector employee would need to make over ones lifetime. This isn’t to say one is better/worse or who is right/wrong. It would just give you an idea whether you might be better off in one sector of the other comparing apples to apples.
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“If I were to take a second job I would have to pay SS money but not be able to receive it at retirement.”
This statement is not true. You can still get SS money from a private sector job (if you work enough years etc.). However, you don’t get the progressivity bonus that some state employees used to get (since to SS it looked like they were poor in terms of income, when in reality they were just in the state system rather than SS). Basically the gov’t puts together your state pension money that’s replacing the SS contributions with the SS money and cut how much you would be getting back from SS. There’s nothing keeping you from getting SS money from another job, but you can’t get more money than you would have gotten had you been in SS all along. They take into account that you have earnings from another system so you’re reimbursed at a lower rate than if the SS job had been your only job. It isn’t that you’re not reimbursed at all. (Again, there’s a paper on this from Jeff Brown that lays it out.)
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Hmm felt like running the numbers, the short of it is if you invested 11% of your salary for 25 years you might expect to end up with about $12k in usable retirement income or roughly 33% of your salary. (Assumptions: Invest 11% of $38k/yr, 8% annual return, 4% safe withdrawal rate in retirement).
Generally the 50% pension would be on par with an employer who’s offering a ~6% match to 401k contributions (which is a fairly generous match). Of course in return someone with a 401k generally has a quicker vesting schedule (some even instant), and has access to their full nest egg, though this can be good or bad depending on their spending habits.
Interestingly the 10year/20% offer is just about exactly equivalent to contriubting money for 10 years then letting it grow for 15 more. So same as a 0% employer match.
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Robin,
Thanks for your first attempt at an article online. I think you did great! And the information you are providing sounds like the real thing.
Your article brings out a point that I think many people don’t see, that many, if not most, government workers aren’t going to live on easy street like people think they are. My family is conservative and feel that the government unions are making the workers so rich that they can use $100 bills for toilet paper. And although there may be states that pay their workers fabulously they are also in bad financial straits, like California. Although I am not well versed on how much government employees make, my hunch has always been that most of you don’t live on easy street.
I don’t know what NE eastern city in which you live, but I know that if it is a major city like Boston or NYC that with what little you take home you would be lucky to even find an apartment!
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“One last consideration is that $525 left over every two weeks. $1050 a month sounds like a lot of money.”
$1050/month never sounded like a lot of money to me. Maybe its because I spent the first 31 years of my life in the SF Bay Area where that kind of money wouldn’t get you very far in most places. Now that I’ve been in Portland for almost three years, $1050 would still be a struggle if you want to live IN the city and outsides of sketchy neighborhoods and distant suburbs. I have a hard time swallowing that statement.
You already know this, but you’re very fortunate that you have parents you can fall back on for housing and support because not everyone has that. Either they don’t have parents who WANT their 30+ year old children living with them, or they may not have living parents at all. Robin, I can’t tell if you’re male or female, but I know that makes a difference when it comes to living at home in certain cultures (American or abroad).
I am also curious if you have hopes of starting a family (to me “starting a family” could just mean getting married, not necessary having kids), of that’s not on your radar now or never.
Thank you for sharing and for your service. This may sound strange, but its in a way a refreshing reminder that not everyone is paid a $100K/year salary on GRS as I sometimes get the impression they are – especially when posts of salary/money comes up and a 20-something-year-old cant wait to post that he/she makes X.
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I am so fortunate to have parents who I get along with and really enjoy spending time with. I don’t see it as a negative even though I am aware of the stigma of living at home at my age. I’m female which I think helps a little but there is still the “why are you living at home, aren’t you successful?” type questions that come up. I consider myself very successful, I feel I have accomplished a great deal in my life, I just chose a path that is a bit unconventional compared to those who seek the highest paycheck. Doing that is great for some people, I just enjoy my work more than I would enjoy having more money.
I have no intentions of having my own children but I do have a relationship that is very strong and thankfully he understands that where I live is not who I am.
Again, I sincerely appreciate the feedback.
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I really hope that I am not overstepping boundaries here but, when you say that you pay $600 in rent does that include utilities and food? Because if it does than that is a sweeeet deal and you can totally get your loans paid off faster.
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(oops, this is supposed to be in response to the author’s comment
I moved in with my parents after my divorce with my three kids. It is a great arrangement for all of us. We split the costs of living expenses, and my kids get to know their grandparents. It has its own challenges, being an adult living with your parents, but it’s a good compromise!
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This Reader Story was very informative, thank you Robin. Hearing about the real cost of this job just floored me and I can only relate to my own two year experience working for a large non-profit organization a long time ago.
My stint was much the same with a decent salary and great benefits. But the arduous commute, the high cost of dressing right for the job and being stuck for years doing something that I just wasn’t passionate about made self-employment look better.
Eventually, a car accident and our growing business made me take a hard look at my job and I resigned. I’ve been self-employed for 37 years and it was the right thing for me.
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The emotional cost of one’s work is something that a price tag can’t be put on. I have struggled with this myself. I work in special education and my specialty is kids who have multiple disabilities. The hardest part of my work is trying to get buy in by the adults to do the things that my training and experience tell me will give the child the best outcome. Also I receive no emotional or professional support by key co-workers in my office. It is to the point of office bullying. I have struggled with this for 7 years. I always felt like someone staying in a bad marriage for the kids. I have finally come to a few conclusions that might be helpful to you, Robin. 1. You can find peace of mind regardless of your profession’s stressors. 2. It is critical to find this or your health will suffer. Teachers often have serious health problems due to steps and die young b/c of it. 3. My job pays well but is it worth the stress 4. Can I still make a difference & do comparable work elsewhere or in other ways? I have used meditation & exercise to successfully handle the stressors. I am actively seeking other ways to contribute in my profession. And I am saving so I can take a mini sabbatical while I work on the side on my own things. You seem able to write well. Perhaps writing for pay would be a way to supplement your income and provide you with an outlet that would help mitigate your stress and let you build a net worth that reflects your true net worth, something your job isn’t doing. Kudos to you for having the courage to take stock and write about it, in public no less.
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Robin, thanks for sharing your story! One of the big questions in the media today is if a bachelor’s degree is worth it. I wonder (based on ROI alone) if 75% of the master’s degrees are worth it? I can see where MBAs and other business related programs can pay off, but time and again it is common to see stories of people who obtain a wide variety of masters in order to get jobs that pay $30,000-$40,000 a year. Thoughts?
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It depends. A master’s degree is a prerequisite for getting certain public sector jobs regardless of pay (for example, social worker). In these jobs a master’s is “worth it” in the sense that you couldn’t do the job without it. Whether you want to pursue this type of path depends on how you weight job satisfaction vs pay and whether you are able to survive on a low salary. The general rule of thumb for academic master’s degress (in the sciences and the humanities) is that if someone isn’t paying for it, you shouldn’t get the degree, because if you’re not good enough to get funding you’re not good enough to be successful in the field. The exceptions are law school and med school, which you almost always have to pay for. Law school you shouldn’t attend in this job market, but if you feel the need to take the risk, you need to be at a top 20 school or a premier regional university in the region you want to work in. Med school, it’s probably worth it and you will probably be able pay off the debt, although it might take longer than you expect even in a high-paying speciality (don’t forget the years of residency!). The usefulness of MBA’s is grossly exaggerated and should only be done if it is a certainty to open doors in your field (for example you encounter many job postings requiring or strongly preferring MBAs) or if someone else (your employer, a scholarship) is paying for it.
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“$1050 a month sounds like a lot of money. And maybe it is.”
No it doesn’t. Consider how much you spent on education, and how long you’ve been in your job…you might want to follow some other passions. You mentioned your pension and retirement but are you going to live with your parents for the next 25 years until that kicks in?
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Robin,
First, Thank you for your service. Many people in police departments don’t get the recognition they deserve especially when they are putting their lives on the line. Jobs in the police force are tough emotionally, physically and financially.
Also, thanks for sharing your story. Alot of people may not know about unions, pensions etc. in a city environment so it helps all of us to understand a little better.
I am glad that you have the support of your family. Always look at the positive side of things, as you describe. You are to learn something for this experience. One of which is you now have the opportunity to do things with your grandmother as you mention. For your personal growth, try to do other things outside your job if you haven’t already (church, good friends, mentor co-workers, etc). That will help with depression. Stay actively involved in something. It helps to keep you busy both physically and mentally.
I wish you the best.
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I think your willingness to sacrifice a few bucks and an independent lifestyle for work you love (despite its demands) is commendable. That said, I worry about the long-term emotional toll of your current job.
Just because you haven’t yet found work that both 1) pays enough for you to live independently where you want to live, and 2) you find personally fulfilling, doesn’t mean such an opportunity doesn’t exist! Keep your radar up, and best of luck!
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Thank you so much for your service. It is really sad to think about the toll that law enforcement jobs have on those who keep us safe. I’m glad you got good mental health care!
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Thank you for your service and for sharing your story!
I also work for a local government and I am very appreciative of the benefits… and wish more people understood they are not as cushy as the public perception often views them! I have no job security, am not a union member, and my job ends at the end of this year. I am happy with my income yet our raises have been 2%, 0%, .5%, 0%… It’s ok, it’s time for a change and I alternate between being excited and scared!
As far as retirement benefits… there is no more free health care after retirement here; that ended years ago. My organization is still on the hook for paying a certain amount of health care for past retirees and some of the people retiring now, but it is not a benefit available to me or most of my colleagues… and even those grandfathered in to the old system, if they leave before retirement age, get nothing toward health care. We now show on our books the cost of this obligation that was incurred years ago, and are funding it every year.
I still have a defined-benefit retirement plan at this point and now am vested and appreciate that… but it requires that even after I leave, I leave my money in the system, so it is subject to any future changes in the plan, which I can tell you there will be. If I take my contributions out, however, I do not get to take any of my employer’s contributions with me. And my return will be 1.5%/yr for all the years I’ve contributed. That’s just the current setup; it can keep changing.
Not a complaint, I have loved my job and still appreciate it. I have a family member who was absolutely rageful and jealous of what he thought my benefits were. When he learned “free health care for life” is not part of the package he was stunned; he thought it was true for all gov’t employees everywhere. He works in the private sector, earns at least 30% more than me (I suspect more but salary and benefits are a touchy topic so I’m not asking!). We both have master’s degrees we paid for ourselves, he is 8 years younger, and if we both stay on our current trajectories, I’ll bet you he’ll continue to be a higher earner and have way more retirement money than I will!
Still, defined-benefit vs defined-contribution is very different. Lots of governments are moving toward defined-contribution because they bear less of the risk, and from a management perspective that makes perfect sense. I think it’s too bad there is so much variation; it’s so divisive. Ultimately I think we have a challenge in this country to set up systems (and ways to pay for them) so everyone has health care, as workers and retirees, and so all old people have at least a basic stream of income.
Thanks for your thoughtful post and for sharing information!
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This is just a small point and I do not mean to sound insensitive. But you mentioned that seeing three coworkers pass away due to cancer as a psychological cost of the job. This is an unusually high amount but I don’t think you can list that as exclusively a cost of police work. The other things mentioned are directly police related. If you were working as an accountant you would be just as likely to lose someone to cancer as you are as a police worker. The same can’t be said for injuries and suicide.
I did really like your story, and think that your work deserves more than you get paid. In my student summer job I take home more each pay cheque than you do. And your job is far more meaningful than the grass cutting I do.
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I get what you’re saying, but maybe those three coworkers were mentors or had some other profound impact on her career?
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Wow, I’m sorry, I know that you love your job but to me the costs seem way too high. I used to work in environmental education in the midwest but then I moved to the very pricey northeast and well, I had to pay the rent. So for the past 7 years I’ve worked as an administrator at a private university in a center that is focused on environmental issues. The university automatically pays 5% (not out of my pay) into my pension which I was vested in after 3 years. They also provide 5% 401K matching program which started 3 months after my hire date, as did the tuition assistance benefit (I took 5 years to do it, but they paid for my whole masters degree in environmental sciences). The small non-profit that I worked at before essentially had one benefit: a $2,000 allowance per year that I could allocate towards retirement OR health insurance. So when I was searching for a new position the benefits package was a huge deal to me. I even took a lower level position that was not associated with my field in order to get in the door (have had 3 promotions since and increased my salary by 33%). Through my positions at the university I feel that in a few years if I wanted to I may be able to return to a smaller non-profit perhaps in a more senior level position with better pay. And I love the people I work with; overall working here has had an enormous positive impact on my life. I guess what I’m saying is that it might be possible to have it all and it doesn’t cost you anything to look!! And from what you describe here it seems like it would definitely be worth your time.
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Thank you for what you do. And thanks too for sharing your story so candidly.
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Wow, you make me feel better about being a teacher
Most of us teachers love what we do and that’s why we do it, but many leave because of the emotional toll it takes (in addition to the tight finances). For some it’s just not worth it. As a single mom, I’m grateful for a full-time job that allows me to be off school when my kids are off and for a pension that as of right now does not require me to contribute to it. Or to give up my SS benefits. Thanks for your service; I can’t believe they don’t pay you more for such a responsible position, but I’m glad you’re willing to do it for all of us!
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I have a daughter going off to college next year. While I appreciate your openness, and I am sure your parents love your company, I would be very disappointed if my daughter at age 30 still had large college debt and could not afford to live elsewhere. I would be happy to have her live with me, but I would be sad for her. I am encouraging her to get a degree in a subject that she enjoys, but yet she can also support herself. While I hope for her that she will put herself in a financial position to be self-sufficient, I would also want her to be able to stay home with children if she so desired. And if her marriage failed, I would want her to be prepared to be able to provide for her family. Financial Independence is important. I am planning and saving now so that I will be financial independent in my elderly years. Making $38k at age 30 with 10 years of service and college degree does not make sense. It may be time to do a personal reflection and look at other options. Sometimes fear of change can hold you back.
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While I understand what you are saying about being loan free and financially independent by 30 (I wish). I wanted to mention that the author got her Master’s degree which would have added on to any bachelor degree debt. She didn’t say when she got her master’s but if it was only a few years ago, then she’s doing a great job paying it down and she would still have that debt at 30…
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IMO $38K at age 30 with a master’s degree is actually not bad. It’s the rest of the situation that kind of sucks.
At 30 with a master’s degree I was making over $50K as a legal assistant. Robin could undoubtedly make a ton more money elsewhere.
But 30 is … very young. This is no longer 1930 when the average 30-yr-old woman already had had six kids, three of whom survived, and had another 15 years to live. Robin has another 30 to 40 years of working life … as long as she can manage the stress.
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Robin, you rock and I’m glad you do what you do. I hate that we live in a country where the pay for the most meaningful jobs is so low.
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Wow Robin, that just really blew me away. Thank you — I am so glad that there are people like you who are willing to live so close to the bone to do such an important job. That’s not a good sign for our society though – people with the most important jobs should be showered with money and accolades, not having to live with their parents to get by (as great as your family seems to be).
You are a good writer – you took on a pretty touchy subject (actually, several of them) and managed to inform without coming across as whiny (which frankly we would sympathize if you did!) or angry. Further, you have an unusual skillset/knowledge base, and you bring a woman’s perspective to a male-dominated field. I was wondering if you have the spare time to think about branching out into freelance writing. I wonder if you could start writing crime/CSI/lab fiction, in partnership with an experienced novelist (maybe a local university’s writing prof or find a “non-fiction writing” freelancer on Elance.com) So basically Dexter without the, you know, murdering and dismembering.
Whatever you do, thanks for the education on your work and state pensions, and I hope when the student loans are paid off you have some breathing room! Best of luck.
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Thanks for sharing..somewhere you mentioned the readers scared you. Don’t let no reader scare you because that is all they are going to do is READ..and not only that everyone has a story to tell wheter they tell it or not. What I got from your post is what I believe and that is there is nothing greater than being able to do a job you love. I was a counselor at a prison and loved my job to death….but because I had other mouths to feed..I felt I had to take the money…but I always think about my job..and how I miss it so much…so I love to hear about others who can actually stay on a job they love and no I know it’s not easy..but you are doing it!! God Bless!!
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I really enjoyed this post, as did my husband — who is also a public sector worker. Thank you for your candor about what it is like to work for a public agency and the gap between perception and reality when it comes to wages and benefits.
My father worked for the federal government for 30 years. In 1980, he made about $40,000/year and supported a family of four on this income. He was able to do that because his mortgage was less than $500/month for a 2200 sq. ft. 4-bedroom home. His medical coverage was more extensive than many of today’s plans, and the general cost of living in our area was relatively low. We went to public schools. He owned two cars, both bought used (no payments).
Today, you make nearly the same amount, yet I suspect many of those things are out of reach for you. It shows how the cost of living has increased while wages really haven’t kept pace.
Together, my husband and I make more than twice my father’s income in 1980, yet our mortgage is nearly three times the amount. Our health insurance is more expensive and covers less. Not to mention the cost of daycare, food and utilities for our family of four. We live simply. Yet so many families like mine need two incomes simply to make it.
It’s a very different world today.
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Michelle,
“The Two-Income Trap” by elizabeth Warren and Amelia Warren Tyagi detail this nicely. They compare a family with one wage earner in 1972 making $38,000 with a family in 2000 (with two wage earners) making $68,000 a year(this is broken up with the husband making $39,000 and the wife bringing home the rest.) After tax income of the two-wage earner family in 2000 is actually a few hundred dollars less than the one wage earner family in 1972!
The major cost increases are health insurance and homes. In construction myself, I can remember when prices for houseing materials started taking leaps and bounds. It was right after Hurricane Andrew, around 1993 or 94. I was just finishing my house then, but that is when materials started to climb.
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This was a fascinating and well written post. Thank-you for writing and for your service!
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I am not the person you asked, but I am also a public employee that has money taken from my paycheck too. “Taken” does not mean stolen, but it is “taken” just like the government takes out social security. (“Taken” to me means lack of choice–if you dislike the word, choose a different word.) As a public employee, I do not have a choice in the money coming out, but the money is considered part of my salary. I cannot opt out of the pension, but my pension benefits do not vest until 7 years of service. (In other words, if I do not stay for 7 years at least, I don’t get anything.) If I stay for 7 years, I get a certain percentage based my salary and how many years I worked. When I was in the private sector and had a 401K (and stock options), I could choose how much to put into the 401K and the 401K is mine, a part of my assets. That is not the same here.
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This is info that the people of Wisconsin should know before they vote. Thank you for explaining pensions so clearly. Very eye-opening.
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Wow! I started out reading this article and thinking, “$38K, that’s decent for a single person.” (It’s a few thousand more than what I make.) But I was very surprised by how steep your deductions are. Thanks for showing us what a typical public sector worker makes.
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“Unless you die in a work-related incident, your pension is not passed on to a family member, so if you die a year after you retire your pension is essentially void.”
When you get to near retirement, look up the rules – in some schemes, you can sacrifice a small amount of your pension to provide a pension for your spouse. In my father’s case a 10% reduction in his annual pension provided for a 50% survivor pension to my mother (which thankfully they haven’t needed).
Your scheme may not allow it, and the math will vary, but it is worth investigating.
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Pensions vary a lot. Most do require the employees to pay in a contribution. Most pensions have also had benefits cut over the years and are not as generous as they used to be. A lot of government employees don’t participate in social security and that is a major difference. The pension itself doesn’t negate social security, its up to the government if they do or don’t want to do social security. So it just depends on the government or agency. Robins pension is about 2% x years worked and pensions vary from 1% to 2.5%. Employee contributions vary from 0% to 12%.
Robin pays 10% towards that pension and no social security. If she works 40 years she could probably retire with a 80% of her salary. Thats good.
If Robin worked at my company she would have social security cut out at 6.2%. My employer would then put 6.2% into social security and 6% into our retirement plan. If Robin put 3.8% into the retirement plan then that would be 9.8% total. Between the retirement plan and social security you’d end up with approximately 75% of your working income at full retirement age. The social security would be worth more than Robins pension dollar for dollar since it has a cost of living increase.
Robins pension with 10% contribution is about equivalent to my social security taxes and 6% employer cash benefit more or less.
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I find most of the GRS blog posts informative, but this one was downright moving. Perhaps because my own profession is a calling. Going to work every day at a job you love is beyond price.
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Thoroughly enjoyed reading this story. It looks like you have looked at the cost-benefit analysis of your job in more than just a financial way, which is something we should all consider. The only recommendation I would make is to look into seeing if you can increase your income – maybe you can do some freelance data analysis or the like to be able to save some money, especially for an emergency fund. Thanks for the great post.
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What about overtime? Don’t you get paid that for every hour over 40?
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Krishna, our overtime budget has been completely eliminated and I have not had 1 hour of overtime in 4+ years. If I end up working late it is traded for an hour or two somewhere along the line when I have a doctor’s appointment on need a long lunch break (I am also not paid for my lunch hour). Basically overtime hours are volunteering.
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Dang Robin- Thats rough…no other way to put it. Kudos to you for going through it for the greater good.
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