This article is from new staff writer Honey Smith.
Hello. I’m Honey Smith. I’m thrilled to be a part of the GRS community, though of course a little embarrassed that it’s essentially as an object lesson to others of what not to do. However, I do hope that everyone on the site learns something along with me.
For those of you who are financially comfortable (or close to it), those lessons may be about empathy or discovering how a significant percentage of people in their 20s and 30s with lots of formal education are struggling in these days of student loans. For those of you living with student debt, hopefully we learn some ways to get back on track together.
Where I’m Starting From
As I mentioned in my previous post, my husband Jake and I owe a combined total of over $230,000 (about $100,000 apiece in student loans and $30,000 in credit card debt — I gave initial totals there but will provide a debt update in another post).
Many of the comments said that the information about our debts was meaningless without a list of our income/expenses. Since we’re newly married, all the historical data I have easily available pertains to me. In addition, we haven’t combined finances yet, and Jake started his business a year ago. This means that I’m still soliciting and compiling information about his situation that will be meaningful, and of course we know that the first couple of years of his new business are not indicative of how things were when he had a big firm job (or how we hope things will be once he grows his current business some more), so today’s post will focus on my situation.
How I Budget
The Reckoning goes back to summer 2008, when we moved in together. I was reading GRS by this time as well, in addition to several other personal finance blogs. (I currently follow about 25 in this category.) While my student-self budget strategy was “don’t spend a bunch of money on crap,” I quickly realized once I got my first “real” full-time job that I’d have to be more strategic and forward-thinking if I wanted to make any headway on my debts.
So, in addition to the Reckoning, I started a budget using an Excel document that I created and have since adapted to a Googledoc. I start a new document each year so I can track annual totals.
Here’s how the Googledoc is organized:
- Register Tab. This is where I keep track of the actual transactions in my checking account (since Mint and my bank’s website don’t make it possible to play with the numbers or track pending payments that haven’t hit yet).
- Credit Card Payoff Tab. This is where I list out finance charges, charges I make, and payments. This tab is there because the website for my card with the balance only shows one statement period at a time; now that I have Mint and can view total historical data at a glance, I may start using that for this purpose. As I’ve mentioned, I actually have three credit cards but only track one this way; one of the others has Jake’s balance and he is just paying it off, not making additional charges, and the third card is for everyday purchases and is paid off in full every month. However, it’s easy enough to create a tab showcasing multiple accounts if you have them.
- Irregular Expenses Tab. This has columns for the annual amount of the expense, a column showing the annual amount divided by 12 (if I were to save on a per-month basis for irregular expenses, which I haven’t been able to implement yet but hope to soon), and a column indicating what time of year the expense generally occurs in, if it’s not monthly but is predictable. Both the annual and the “divided by 12″ columns show the sum of irregular expenses for each category.
- Monthly Budget/Paycheck Tabs. There is a tab for each month that shows when I get paid, what deductions come out of each paycheck (so I can see gross and net at a glance), and what my anticipated expenses are for each paycheck. As those expenses are taken care of, I highlight the cell so I can see what’s left.
My Irregular Expenses
The list below are estimates based on last year’s amounts. Unless otherwise noted, the amount listed reflects just my share — even for things like auto insurance that will be joint going forward, since we haven’t combined finances yet and I also don’t have all the data about his costs.
- Auto insurance: $500 (twice a year, January and July)
- Auto expenses (repair/maintenance): $250
- Auto registration: $42
- Hair care (service): $600
- Hair care (product): $300
- Gifts: $1000
- Health care (copays, etc): $1000
- Vet expenses (pets): $2300 Note: wow, I didn’t remember we paid so much last year. This, however, is a joint expense so last year I would have paid half.
- Mensa annual dues: $60
- Sorority alum club annual dues: $55
- AAA Plus annual dues: $95
- Long term care insurance: $292
- Total: $5344
On target so far this year: auto insurance, auto registration, hair care (service), hair care (product), gifts, health care, mensa and sorority dues, AAA dues, and long-term care insurance. Under target: auto repair/maintenance and vet expenses (as I recall all three animals had dentals last year), though obviously this can change at any time. No categories over target at this time.
My Regular Expenses
Like the irregular expenses, the amount listed reflects only my share for things, even if they are a joint expense. Accordingly, the pet, grocery, netflix, internet, rent, satellite cable, renter’s insurance, and electricity categories should be doubled if you want to get an idea of our joint costs.
- Gas, auto: $45
- Pet expenses: $50
- Grocery/household: $300
- Cell phone: $68
- Massage membership: $65
- Netflix: $8
- Internet: $32.50
- Withdrawal/cash: $40
- Life insurance/supplemental disability: $96
- Rent: $488
- Student loan 1: $387
- Student loan 2: $80
- Satellite TV: $37
- Renter’s insurance: $9
- Electricity: fluctuates throughout the year, in summer $100
- Total: $1805.50
My Income
With my salaried job, I net $2000 per month (after taxes, 403(b) contribution, health/vision/dental, supplemental short-term disability, and parking), so you can see that I end up with about $200 or so to put toward my credit card debt using my regular salary. However, while my regular expenses do come in just under my regular income, they don’t get me very far towards debt repayment or leave anything over for irregular expenses. And you’ll also notice that this budget doesn’t include eating out, like, ever, or any other entertainment expenses outside of TV.
There are, of course, two months a year where I get a third paycheck, which isn’t reflected here and which I usually bank for irregular expenses. Also not listed is irregular income from freelance work, our Amazon and Half.com stores (we’re purging our Stuff), tax returns, and birthday/holiday gifts from my generous dad. In 2011 my irregular expenses were $5003 and my irregular income was $5450, for example.
However, while in the past things have worked out so I could cover everything, it’s always been a near thing. A not-guaranteed thing that makes me very nervous. Especially since I suspect tax refunds will be a thing of the past now that Jake doesn’t have automatic withholding and cash gifts from my dad will be a thing of the past now that I’m married.
Where Would You Start?
To me, the satellite television (for a small win, though I’d replace it with Hulu plus) and my hair service are obvious first targets. I had a haircut on Friday and called earlier in the week to change the cut-and-color to just a cut. This brought me from $150 or so for a cut-and-color to $62 for just the cut, so that is a good start (both totals include tip). I also recently discovered a new product routine that will shave some costs in that category, though those will take some time to manifest.
What else would you do? If this were your budget, where would you start to make imrovements? Are there any line-items that you’d like more information on (in the comments or another post)?
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Some of the details are not quite clear to me. I also want to know how you get satellite TV for so cheap! I would definitely get rid of the massage service and talk to an independent insurance agent about cheaper car insurance. Also, the life insurance seems kind of high. You might want also want to shop around to see if you can cut that in half. Finally, have you looked into consolidating your student loans? That can save you a great deal as well if you can do that. All in all, that should put about another $300 a month back into your pocket.
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I second everything AC says. In fact, I would say drop life insurance all together. You didn’t mention dependents, and your husband has the ability to earn for himself, so essentially it’s like your playing the lottery for $96 a month.
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Agree, the massage membership has got to go, that’s what a spouse is for, right?
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The massage membership could go either way for me. If it’s with an RMT for legitimate health concerns, I’d say keep it as one massage a month can easily run $50 or more. If it’s not medically necessary I would definitely look at that as a place to cut back.
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The satellite cable total is about $86, that is a joint expense so only half is reflected here. I have been trying to get him to cancel this FOREVER (it’s in his name), but so far no dice.
I think I didn’t explain the auto insurance clearly – $500 is the total for the year, and so I pay $250 or so every six months. As far as I’m aware, that’s a great rate.
My loans are consolidated (in fact, I just consolidated the smaller one into the bigger one, though I’m not sure when that’s going to go through).
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Seems like the obvious answer would be to have the hubby pay the entire cable TV bill.
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I recently cancelled my second phone-fax line with Verizon, saving about $27/mo, plus the cost of a new fax (ours broke) and cartridges for the fax, and got an on-line fax service for $90./year.
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Honey-
One thing I do not see listed in your regular expenses is your credit card payments. That would be even more money going out of your pocket, correct? Someone commented last night that your expenses total around 106%, but I think that percentage should be even higher when including CC payments.
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Congrats on getting started. I imagine you’ll get some comments on how you can cut things back even further by eliminating expenses that some see as outrageous considering your situation. Just keep in mind not everyone is in your shoes. My girlfriend has a ton of student debt too so I realize you still need to live a little. Sad thing is $200 extra a month won’t get your debt paid off any fast. Good job on landing the GRS staff writing gig and I’m sure you’re looking for some more side income as well. Best of luck and try to take some of the haters with a grain of salt if they start commenting. Some of them have some valid comments they just don’t word them very well.
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Let’s do some math:
$200/mo = $2400/yr
$2400 * 5 years = $12,000
Yes, it’s only a dent, but it’s a DENT.
$1 put toward debt is one less dollar you owe. There is no trivial amount of money when you are serious about retiring debt.
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Let’s do the REST of the math:
$230,000 / $2,400 a year ~ 95 years
95 years, at the current rate, to pay off all debt. While I agree you have to chip away at a mountain of debt, these numbers are clearly not going to work in her lifetime.
She needs to get this number (95 years) down, and the only way to get it down to a point where she’s debt free before she dies is to increase her income.
I’m guessing that they are betting on her husband’s business taking off.
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Honey certainly needs to budget more for debt repayment. However, it’s also important to remember that all federal student loans are forgiven after 25 years of repayment.
She’s still got a huge chunk of credit card debt, but at least the federal chunk of her student loans will go away after 25 years.
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Seriously?
Hell, in that case pay the absolute minimum and be off the hook after 25 years. Irresponsible? Yes. Smartest course? Indeed.
I used to be indifferent to those decrying student loans, because I thought it was the type of debt that couldn’t be written off (even after declaring bankruptcy), so your fellow citizens wouldn’t be stuck with the bill. But if this is the case, then I agree, stop giving out student loans!
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I would assume that a large chunk of her loans are not federal loans. But lets say all her loans are federal and she makes the monthly payments of $387 and $80 for the next 25 years. That would be about $140k total repayment on $100k in debt. So she’d be paying the $100k principal plus $40k over those 25 years. Thats really a good deal as far as interest but its not a free ride.
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All my loans are federal loans. He has some private loans because his graduate education was spread out over 3 years whereas mine was spread out over 8.
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Like it or not, Congress set up the Federal Student Loan program. They give out Grad PLUS loans with a 7.9% interest rate (ouch!), but provide the option of having it forgiven after 25 years. If you ask to have your loan balance forgiven, then it counts on your tax returns as income that year.
Apparently Congress set up the student loan program this way because they were having trouble attracting qualified candidates for public sector jobs that require advanced degrees but pay next to nothing. (For example, public defenders only have an annual salary of 40K even though they require a 120K law degree.)
I wanted to bring up the topic simply because I’ve been seeing a lot of colorful comments related to Honey’s situation over the course of her last few posts. However, I haven’t heard anyone bring up the 25-year option yet. Irresponsible or no, she could choose to pay the minimum amount possible on the student loans and then focus the rest of her energy on clearing the consumer debt first, then building wealth.
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She must be doing Income Based Repayment to only be paying $460 per month towards $100k of loans. And if she’s making so little that her payment is so low, my guess is that she’s working for a non-profit or public sector job, which further means that if she stays at the same job for ten years and pays her IBR minimum, the remaining debt will be forgiven at the end of those ten years of payment.
If it were me, I’d probably keep the massages and get rid of all tv and cellphone expenses, switch to free hulu and youtube, get a pay as you go phone and only use it for emergencies, and explore Cost Cutters or other strip mall hair places.
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Trying to be tactful because we don’t, and don’t necessarily need to, know all the details. However areas I’d consider looking into:
Not sure what long term care insurance really is here, not something you typically see for someone under 50 so isn’t clear to me why you are bothering with it.
Life insurance/disability? Unless your health is bad it seems high. The only one you are beholden to is your partner and you don’t have to fund him for life. A term policy for someone in their twenties shouldn’t be all that much, half a million for $30-40 a month. You shouldn’t need that much, maybe $250K or less (I don’t recall, does a spouse have to pay student loans if you pass?). In any event, you may want to look into this one.
Also not sure of the massage membership, are you getting real value from this or is it a pure indulgence?
Vet care, $2300? They had better have been under the knife because if not this really seems high. An area to really consider if you are getting bang for the buck.
Cell phone also seems high, may want to shop around some more if you haven’t already.
Finally, Mensa and Soriety dues. Unless you are active in the chapters, nice to have, don’t know if they provide any real benefit.
Just my $0.02 worth of some areas I’d look to cut back in.
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Agree,
LTC is a good product for someone trying to protect wealth already obtained. Since you are in debt (even excluding the student loan debt), you would be eligible for medicaid extremely quickly. Agree or disagree with the system, but if it is in place use it. Medicaid is free LTC insurance for people without assets, or put differently low or negative net worth.
zanderinsurance.com for life insurance, I have 20 years of $750k level term for $35/month. That said, your husband should be more concerned about insurance for you (and vice versa). Life Insurance is for those left behind, and obligations you leave them with (mortgage, childcare expenses, debts that they have to acquire, their income if they can’t produce one). It sounds like none or very few of those apply to you.
STD is typically prohibitively expensive if not substantially subsidized by one’s employer (as this may well be based on the price above). If you have a desk job the odds of you not being able to perform that work seem slim to me. If you are a craftsman or medical personnel then all bets are off.
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If I recall right, her husband makes about $90k a year. So she is not going to qualify for medicaid.
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Nwsquid, you are thinking of Workers Compensation insurance. That is what covers you if you are injured on the job and your employer is required to carry it.
Short Term Disability covers you if you are sick (want to pay for eight weeks of medical leave and your share of the medical expenses straight out of pocket?). It pays if you get injured as well. Long Term Disability should be the priority of the two in my opinion. Once you’ve built a cash cushion, dropping Short Term Disability is understandable. Remember though that it takes a minimum of six months to qualify for Social Security Disability and cases often drag on a year or two.
As for going on Medicaid for Long Term Care expenses, have you seen the places that take Medicaid recipients? Usually it’s not a place you’d want to leave anyone you care about if you had a choice. This is assuming there are any spaces open for Medicaid patients.
Arguing that someone delay long term care insurance to focus on more immediate concerns is understandable. Saying “just go on Medicaid” is a rather short-sighted argument.
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Keep in mind that STD and LTD cover you if you’re unable to work, including at a desk job. I have seen desk workers be unable to work due to health problems, including myself. Also, STD can pay for maternity leave, and could be worth the cost if that is expected soon. Also, Medicaid is not available to everyone (in some states, only parents are eligible, in other states the income maximum is $5000 per year, etc.)
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I agree about the Mensa & sorority memberships, although if they are useful for career networking then maybe they’re worth keeping. But, other than that, I don’t see them as being crucial.
As for the life insurance and disability, I would still keep that insurance, but perhaps lower the payout for life insurance. My philosophy on life insurance is to get enough coverage so my family can bury me, and still make payments on my condo for a year while they work through their grief to figure out what to do with my stuff. So I’m insured for a year’s salary. Anything beyond that isn’t necessary since I don’t have any dependents.
I would keep the disability because you just never know, and right now you’re more likely to become disabled from an accident than dying. But I would definitely shop around for more affordable policies.
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I will blog more about insurance in another post, but the short answer is that my mom died at age 46 of a disease that I stand a 50% chance of inheriting. She was considered medically disabled the last 15 years of her life and was quadriplegic the last 2 at least. I *could* just get term insurance to cover me until age 50 or something, but my grandfather (who also had this disease) lived a totally normal lifespan except he was in a nursing him the last 15 years of his life. In the event that happens to me, I want to make sure I’m covered.
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Honey,
You seem like you have thought everything through and are making plans based on the lifestyle you want to have given all the possible contingencies. I really respect that and hope for all the best for you. Good luck to you and I hope you keep posting.
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You must have a wonderful insurance sales person. LTC Would you feel better off taking a test and finding out if you carry the gene? Keep the insurance until then? You already have life (which you pay WAY too much for) and disability.
Vet cleaning teeth? Why is it that dogs lived long lives with chews and suddenly we HAD to clean their teeth? Cut it out. The dog is actually under loads of stress by sedating them enough to clean teeth.
When you get rich and famous THEN you can contribute to your sorority and Mensa.
Now I can see why you are so far under water. Loads to cut until you are clear. I’ll be happy to see you make a difference in your life!
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She explained the reason for the insurance in post #60
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Yes, it is stressful to a pet to go to the vet and have a dental cleaning. However, without dental cleanings, pets can develop a wide range of dental problems which can lead to life-threatening (and much more expensive to treat) conditions. Pets can get abscessed tooth, oral infections, and gum recession just like people can. Yes, dogs can live without them. However, it is healthier for the pet, and the pet is more comfortable, if you prevent those dental problems.
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“And you’ll also notice that this budget doesn’t include eating out, like, ever, or any other entertainment expenses outside of TV.”
And yet
Pet expenses: $50 (Yes I have pets and yes I count them as discretionary spending)
Cell phone: $68 (Bill this high is part discretionary)
Massage membership: $65 (Unless there is a long term problem, it fits the same category)
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I’d say cut any memberships that aren’t absolutely necessary, including Mensa and sorority alumni dues. If you don’t want to lose ties to your sorority completely, maybe contact them and volunteer to do some admin or newsletter writing in exchange for free or discounted dues. I’d also suggest that you call and see if you can renegotiate any of your monthly expenses that you can’t cut, including car insurance, tv, renter’s insurance (mine goes down every year I don’t have a claim) and internet. Also, $600 a month for groceries for 2 people seems kind of high–are there ways you could reduce this, like eating more vegetarian meals or buying in bulk? I know it depends on what part of the country you live in but my partner and I live in a big city and spend about $300-350 on groceries every month. Good luck and I look forward to seeing more from you!
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I could spend less on groceries. Jake, my husband, will not (not *could* not, *will* not). He went over budget by almost $100 yesterday, though I made it clear before we went shopping the amount above which I could not afford to contribute.
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Over by $100! Yikes! I don’t think I ever even spend $100 in one grocery visit! Does he read GRS? Maybe he should start…
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Don’t *let* him shop! If you can help, do it yourself or find a cheaper alternative. We shop at Aldi (Trader Joe’s little sister) and probably save half on our grocery bill. They aren’t everywhere, but it makes a huge difference. Plus they don’t carry many of the luxury items so its easier not to splurge!
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If he is unable to respect what you say you can not afford just because he’s going to buy what he wants, then perhaps it’s a good idea to not merge your finances. If you are repsonsible for your own money, at least you will always know you can pay the bills you are responsible for. You don’t want him draining the accounts because he does not have self-control when it comes to spending.
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Or even aside from that, it will reduce the fights and nagging when you act in ways not in accordance with the other’s financial plan/values.
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It seems like all you do is complain about your husbands bad spending habits.
Why did you marry him? Judging by your comments of him and how you don’t agree with ALOT of his financial way you two are obviously not in the least bit financially compatible.
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Hi Honey, well done on your new GRS position!
I think your story will be more “how to get out of a lot of debt” rather than “avoid this happening to you”!
First off, your car insurance is crazy expensive! Even as a teenager I didn’t pay that much! Have you looked at one of those price comparison websites? I would also use those for all your bills to try and find the best possible deal.
Your phone bill is pretty high too. I used to pay a lot for mine as well and I know it’s easy to rack up the charges, but make sure you’re paying for just the amount of minutes/texts you use and no more (and definitely no less, to avoid high over-use charges!)
I’d probably cut the memberships unless you were really making full use of them. Maybe get your new hubby to massage you instead?
Is your grocery bill $600 per month for just the two of you? Maybe switch to generic foods instead of brands and try to cook bulk meals from scratch, freezing the leftovers. I am in the UK (but I think we have more expensive food due to taxes), but I wouldn’t pay more than £250 per month (tops), and I’m aiming for more like £150-£200 for the two of us.
So yeah, I guess to summarise, spend some time hunting down the best deals. You don’t have to cut out everything of course, but if you are worried about your debts then the time spent will probably more than pay for itself!
Good luck with your new position (and hubby’s new business!)
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Welcome, Honey! I look forward to reading your posts.
The way I’m reading it, you and your husband spend $600 on groceries and household items? That was one area where I was really careful when I was paying off my student debt. I found the easiest way to trim the grocery budget was to cut back on meat. I would use recipes like stir fry, wraps and soups that used less meat per serving and ditched the meat altogether a few times a week. (Hooray for beans and lentils — and so many uses)
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Thanks, Elizabeth! We are vegetarian. The grocery bill has been a point of contention between Jake and I for the last 4 years. He refuses to adopt any shopping habit except “buy whatever looks tasty.” He doesn’t look at prices. He doesn’t plan meals. When we go over budget, he says it’s because I set the budget too low.
In other words, argh.
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Honey
$600 for 2 people for a vegetarian diet. THud. My suggestion is that YOU go shopping alone, with a list of items NEEDED for 2 weeks (staying out of stores=saving money on impulse buys) for menus that you preplan after taking inventory of what is on hand. This will immediately cut that bill at least in 1/2!
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Why not take over the grocery shopping? That way, he can’t go over budget.
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^This.
I must ask, is your husband on board with getting out of debt? Above, you mentioned he refuses to get cheaper TV [or even cancel it to save money]. Now, he doesn’t look at prices and impulse buys the week’s food. Those two things would not be an issue if there were enough money.
I know you both haven’t combined finances, but are you both at least on the same page?
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These are both good points. Even though you are presenting just your expenses, you and your husband are now a team, and should be working together toward the same financial goals.
One of the best things my husband and I did after getting married was sit down with a wealth adviser. It helped us lay out all our assets and debts so there were no surprises, and also got us on the same page in terms of financial goals. I highly recommend either finding an adviser, or even doing these exercises yourselves.
That said, congrats on the GRS gig! I look forward to reading more from you.
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Here’s an example: I went grocery shopping a week ago, and got enough food for 2 weeks. I spent $230 – deliberately under-spending so that he could have $70 in “mad money” to buy chips or whatever he wanted and didn’t feel like I was telling him he wasn’t allowed to buy stuff or have those things. Then, yesterday, he went out and spent $150, almost exclusively on processed junk food.
So, that approach didn’t work. I’m open to others, but since I can’t physically stop him from going to the store and buying things, it’s going to remain an issue until he gets on board. So, really, what I need is strategies to get him on board. He doesn’t think our situation is dire and poo-poo’s me when I worry about it.
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I’m sorry Honey, but your DH does not sound like someone you should be merging finances with. There are all sorts of red flags there (he really needed $70 to spend on chips etc?) that if you ignore them you’re going to end up in a bad place. I ignored mine, and my ex left me $30k more in debt than when we started.
You’re married and you’re sharing a life together but if he’s not on the same page as you financially your joint money will end up being spent his way and you’ll end up resenting him and stressed to the max. So keep the finances separate, please!
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a comment was made by JD that Honey generates a lot of comments.
That my be true, however after reading this article and all the comments is generated I am already bored and still consider Honey and her husbands finances and possibly marriage a “train wreck” as others also suggested in the her reckoning article.
I hate to be so pessimistic, however I’m going with my gut on this one and my gut’s saying this isn’t going to be good.
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Honey don’t feel too bad. My brother-in-law is exactly this way and has been for the whole 15 yrs of their marriage. He also loves tp entertain with meals for many guests.
pick your battles I guess, and food may not be one worth fighting.
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“it’s going to remain an issue until he gets on board”
Was your husband like this before you got married? Yes he was wasn’t he. So you just expect him to change to suit you. I wonder if he is thinking that its going to be an issue until you get on board his plan?
Now if you were both dirt poor broke I’d say you’re absolutely right and he needs to cut spending. But you have a combined income of about $130k right? (based on previous comments you make ~$40k and he makes ~$90k). Your debt level is a large amount and a burden. Yet with the debts you have you should still have pretty reasonable amount of income after debts and taxes are paid.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be frugal. But individually you will each have some things you value and want to spend money on. He seems to like food and TV. You probably have things you spend on that he doesn’t value. (haircuts, pets maybe?) Or maybe you don’t spend excess amounts on anything he isn’t in agreement with. In any case you have differing priorities and you need to learn those and find some reasonable compromise.
Clearly you both don’t agree on finances entirely. You need to figure that out and find a mid point compromise that allows for debt repayment AND make allowances for individual personal spending priorities.
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He made $90K when he was working at a firm. Now he makes half that. But, in his head, he is still making $90K. I think that’s the lightbulb that has to go off before he will buckle down. I am hopeful he will, however. He was paying down debt like gangbusters at his old job, but after the second time he ended up in the hospital for stress-related stuff, we decided it wasn’t worth it.
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OK thanks for the clarification on your husbands current income level. I was working with the impression he made $90k. It will be interesting to see how his income/expenses break down.
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In all seriousness, you may want to budget for some couples counseling. You both are going to have trouble succeeding (and thriving!) until you get on the same page.
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I think Honey and Hubby both have issues about living a lifestyle beyond their income. His might be food but hers is massages and hair care etc. Time to be humble and cut back on expenses so you can really get things paid off.Find some free treats to feel special.
Good article by the way. :0) Long time since we had so many comments pouring in.
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As an aside to the current discussion, I would love to see one or more future posts that deal with the issue When Your Mate Is Not On Board With Debt Recovery/Frugal Spending (And Is Not Receptive to Change). This is one of my problems too, although DH knows it’s an issue and basically turned over the family finances to me to handle (including the grocery shopping) so we don’t starve or have the electricity shut off.
To all those out there who say marriage is a partnership and your mate “should” be on board – yes, I know – but there are different kinds of partnerships and “should” does not equal “is”. And divorce is not always or even usually an option with such partners, as they usually have excellent points that counterbalance the financial issues.
J.D. is absolutely right – money is about mindset, not math, and you cannot change someone else’s mindset. All you can do is cope with it, and I’d love to hear more on coping methods.
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“he refuses to adopt any shopping habit except buy whatever looks tasty. He doesn’t look at prices. He doesn’t plan meals.”
He has over 100k in student loans, in my book he lost the “privilege” to not care about costs. Not being on the same page with you is jeopardizing your married financial health. Check out Dave Ramsey’s book, “The Total Money Makeover” and his 9 week course Financial Peace University in your area, it’s a great combo of marriage counseling and financial bootcamp.
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I believe you meant “between Jake and ME.” Argh, indeed. Drop the Mensa membership before you go to one of the meetings and exhibit the speech patterns of the ignorant.
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If you can’t get paid more at another regular job, I would seriously consider getting a second job – the income from which goes straight to the CC.
What are your interest rates like on the debts?
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A second job… you mean like becoming a staff writer on GRS?
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No Elizabeth, a job (or small business) that makes good money – not freelance writing. Although it’s fun and great as a low paid hobby, it’s not and never has been a lucrative field.
It’s an indulgence just as much as a massage membership is.
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I wouldn’t say it is an indulgence if it is supplemental income. I mainly stay at home with the kids, but I take on small writing projects that I can do whenever and wherever. I figure I make between $20-$25 an hour doing this. While I won’t get rich this way, it does bring in about $400 more for us a month. This is pure gravy, since we don’t rely on it to pay the bills. And this is very flexible work, which is better in my circumstances than something that would pay more but require me to be somewhere at fixed times.
Would you be making more than $25 an hour delivering pizzas or making coffee? I doubt it. And only certain skill sets allow someone to start a business or find part-time work that isn’t low paid.
This is all to say that freelance writing is not a bad gig if it doesn’t keep you from keeping or obtaining higher paid work.
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Honey mentioned in the post that she has freelance income and she and her husband have a couple of online stores… in addition to her salaried position. I’m just wondering how many jobs people think she needs?
Freelance writing is just a hobby for some, but it can earn some decent income if you’ve got the skills, reputation and willingness to chase after higher payer gigs. I know people who are quite successful writing for mainstream publications.
I guess it all depends on what you think would be a good second job in comparison? I’m not trying to be rude — I am curious.
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Whatever.
I’m like Jane – I’m a SAHM and I freelance on the side to help bring in some cash and pay down our debt. It’s not much, but guess what? My resume stays current, despite not being in a traditional office job for almost two years. I’m constantly networking to find that “next gig,” so that’s great, too. I am also keeping my skill set sharp and relevant.
So, not only does freelancing help out my family (and make it more than just a hobby), but it helps ME down the road with future jobs.
I just have a question for Honey – while you and your husband are making some decent change in your second (and third) jobs, are you setting aside money for taxes? I’m just asking because I try not to spend my own money until after I’ve paid my quarterly taxes.
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Ah, quarterly taxes will be addressed in our next installment!
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@Megan and Jane – kudos!
I hope to be able to freelance or have a small business if I’m blessed with kids some day. It’s so important to keep networking and keep skills up to date.
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How many jobs? As many as it takes to bring her income up to at least $50k/year with the potential of higher income – or whatever she needs to earn to pay off those student loans and CC’s in 10 years or less (preferably less since if she continues on this path she will never be able to save enough to be able to have a family – if that’s what she wants – she is 33 y.o. after all) – and maybe enough to be a SAHM and make some income on the side like you ladies are doing. (Kudos to all of you for being in that position, but let’s be honest, she is NOT in that position.) In *her* childless circumstances with *her* debt and *her* husband’s income – she cannot afford to make less. I’m not knocking writers but she needs a more “show me the money” kind of job.
And, quite frankly, so does her husband. If he’s only making $45k/year at a very low $100/billable hour, he’s only billing what? – 400 hours a year? Most of the happier / well off lawyers I know are doing corporate law at a company with low-stress work and normal hours.
That can be one job or four for her. If she’s been in her present job for 4 years and is still only netting $26k or so a year, I still maintain that she has a bigger problem (generally under-earning tendencies) than hair product choices. She needs to make some of the harder choices now that maybe she should have / could have made years ago when she chose a poor earning major. That’s the big elephant in this particular room.
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Satellite and netflix? Why?
$600 per year on your hair? I cut everyone’s hair in my house and we aren’t picky about shampoo.
You cell phone bill is too high. Get on a family plan and your share would go down by half.
What are you doing with your $40 in cash?
And if your half of the food is $300, then the two of you spend twice as much as my family of 4 with two cats on food/household items.
My weekly budget is $75 for everything. Cat food and litter, toiletries, hygiene, diapers, wipes, and food for 2 adults (big, active DH and I’m pregnant *and* breastfeeding, 5yo and 2yo).
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Jessica,
I seriously want to know how you do a $75/week grocery budget! I’ve been somewhat successful with an $80/week budget for a family of 3, but some weeks it’s such a stretch.
The more I micro-manage my purchases, as in I think of everything I’m going to purchase and their cost in advance, the better I’m able to get through the week. But sometimes I can’t predict everything– is there such a thing as an Emergency Groceries Fund you can tap when you run out of milk mid-week so you don’t have to stress? Or does one just put aside a portion of their current grocery budget each week for the unexpected?
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I use some coupons but not a ton. I match sales with coupons I do have, check what I already have in my 2 months of food storage and go from there.
Once a year I buy a 1/4 cow from my uncle who raises grassfed organic beef for $2.50 / # hanging weight. That is included in my food budget.
I buy at the lowest price, enough to get me until the next super sale on that type of item. So if I see that canned tomatoes are on sale for $.50 per can, I get enough to last 8-10 weeks (so, 6-8 cans).
I have a warehouse club membership and use it to buy flour, sugar, honey, cheese, chocolate milk mix, applesauce and olive oil in bulk. Occasionally we use it for other purchases also, such as a mattress and boxspring for less than half of what other stores charge.
We eat simple meals. We eat seasonal produce. The farmer’s market in my Ohio town is ridiculously expensive ($4 per pound of “seconds” tomatoes, $6 pints of blueberries).
This week’s dinners:
Sunday- chuck roast, potatoes and carrots made in the crockpot, along with homemade bread and homemade cookies
Monday- tuna casserole with peas, blueberries for dessert
Tuesday- pancakes, eggs, sausage, watermelon
Wednesday- hamburgers and homemade fries, watermelon
Thursday- grilled cheese, corn
Friday- baked chicken, noodles, peas or green beans
Saturday- we’ll grill potatoes and steak
Lunches are usually leftovers. I pack my DH a lunch for work- either leftovers or a sandwich, along with yogurt, applesauce, a cheese stick and homemade dessert.
Breakfasts- DD, DH, DS all have chocolate milk. DH also has a banana, DD has crackers and DS will have fruit or cheese and crackers. None of them eats much of a breakfast. I am a big breakfast eater though. I make my own granola (yes, I’m crunchy like that) and splash it with milk. It gives me the fiber I need and it’s healthy and balanced.
We do go through 4 gallons of milk per week even though the only milk I consume is the splash over my granola.
I used to play the “drugstore game” but rarely bother anymore. I have a 6-month supply of soap, shampoo and such.
I’m not brand loyal. I don’t care what kind of tp, tissues, shampoo, dish soap, detergent or pain reliever I use. There have been times I tried a certain off brand or store brand and I didn’t care for it, so I just return it if there’s a guarantee or I just don’t buy that brand of item again.
We also watch our portions. We eat a real serving size, not a ginormous plate full.
We don’t buy pop or beer or wine.
Our snacks are simple, like graham crackers, air popped popcorn or pretzels. I usually snack on fruit. I also make my own popsicles with a popsicle mold set.
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What a big help! Thank you for the tips Jessica. In fact, I’m going to print out your recommendations and work on the areas where I could make some real impact.
A few questions regarding sale chicken: what cuts do you buy and do you freeze them? If you freeze, how do you thaw them (day before in fridge)? Isn’t chicken already previously frozen before you purchase it? If so do you find that it makes the chicken dry to refreeze/thaw?
Up till now I’ve avoided buying sale meats because I don’t “get” how to make using them somewhat easy, tasty and safe to use after freezing. Again, I really appreciate your tips and look forward to making headway on our food budget!!
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@SweetCoffee (#347)
I can’t speak to getting my grocery bill quite that low, but I can definitely speak to handling poultry!
Normally I either get whole chickens, dark meat bone-in pieces, or sometimes just necks and backs (for making stock). We get all our meat from local farmers, so it generally has not been frozen beforehand.
You can freeze a chicken whole with pretty much no problems, but unless I intend to roast it that way I generally prefer to cut it up into pieces first. (This Alton Brown method is the best explanation I’ve seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbc1aW5C1W0 ). If you are going to freeze whole birds, I suggest you grab the neck and giblets out first; it’ll make it much easier if you decide to cut the bird up later.
You can thaw in the fridge for 24 hours, or you can put the chicken (in a bag) in a pot or sink of cold water with the faucet running gently into it for a few hours. Whole chickens will take longer — perhaps two days in the fridge or most of a day using the cold water method.
I keep a bag marked in my freezer for bones, necks, and backs. I keep another bag for carrot, onion, celery, leek, celeriac, and parsley trimmings. Periodically I’ll make stock from the two — just put everything in a big pot with enough water to cover everything by about an inch, bring to a boil, skim whatever appears on the surface, then simmer for about two hours. Strain the solids, passing the stock through some cheesecloth if you want a really clear stock, and there you go. Use within three days or freeze (I normally freeze stock in one-cup or 1/2-cup increments — makes it easy to figure out how much I have for cooking.)
Especially if you’re going to be roasting whole birds that you’ve thawed (where there might be some frozen spots in the middle), a good thermometer is a must when dealing with chicken. In a braise or stew, you’ll probably hit the safe temperature easily, but roasting or sauteing or grilling are trickier. You don’t need anything fancy or expensive but that helps a lot with getting good results.
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Jessica:
I’m curious too! How do you do it? I just spent $80+ at the grocery store yesterday to feed 2 people for the week. I am pregnant and plan on breastfeeding. My $80 covered TP and food..no pet supplies, etc (1 dog and 1 cat).
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Some key questions:
-where are you shopping?
-what are you buying (raw ingredients vs processed and/or convenience items)?
-are you brand loyal? use coupons? buy what is on sale and plan meals around that vs the other, much more expensive alternative: decide you want X regardless of how much it costs and buy that vs the 99/lb chicken legs on sale this week?
-do you cook from scratch?
-any vegetarian meals?
HTH
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Honey,
Glad to have you posting. I really enjoyed your previous posts.
I, also, have student debt. About half your $100,000. And yet, I pay 50% more than you. Are you on the 30 year plan?
Until you are out of debt, you should consider cutting the satellite TV, massage, mensa, long-term care insurance, hair care, etc. My fiance gets her haircut once a quarter or so. Total yearly cost is less than $100. Mine gets cut every couple of months, total year cost is around $120. If you cut all of those, you’ll have more than enough.
You can do it; you’ve got what looks like a bunch of wants that you don’t categorize as wants.
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I agree with William! Seems like a lot of wants are needs here.
If you can’t bear to part with your massages and hair care – consider using schools – Ogle and Paul MItchell are two beauty schools that I know of – they both offer full hair services at pennies on the dollar as compared to regular places. You’ll get a great cut and color, as instructors have the final say in everything the student does. You just have to schedule in advance, as they are ALWAYS full!
Same for massages – try a school. Usually you can get an hour long massage for $30. The ambiance might not be quite that of a spa, but it’s a wonderful experience for not as much money….
The society memberships – tough call. Yes it’s nice to ‘belong’ to such prestigious groups, but what are you REALLY getting out of these memberships? Is it worth your hard earned cash? Can you take a break and pick it up later (after your debt is a lot smaller or gone)?
Vet bills – you’re so lucky you get to have pets! (my landlord says NO for the time being). The cost does seem high. Were your pets gravely ill last year? If this tally includes grooming or training or any other activity than food/vet appts/meds, perhaps you can start DIY for the rest?
Lastly, the ‘easy’ one – TV: drop the satallite. Hulu, netflix, library – those are cheaper options and there’s less time wasted on commercials! (I must admit I DON”T watch sports or news shows, so I haven’t a speck of advice on how to watch those without cable)
Best of luck to you. Seems like you have a mountain to climb, but with focused effort and time you WILL get there!
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Thanks! Now that the wedding’s past, I agree about getting my hair cut less frequently and not doing color anymore. So instead of $150×4=$600 annually, I can cut it back to $62×4=$248 annually.
I also agree my cell phone bill is insane. I get analysis paralysis whenever I think about switching, though. I’ll have to look and see how many more months are in my contract before I can switch, and get on one of the cheapie no-contract plans when this one is up.
I do attend some sorority and Mensa events, and the main reason I keep those (especially the sorority) is because a lot of those people have a LOT of money and it’s good to be on their radar in the event they need legal work
RE: satellite cable, it’s in my husband’s name, and he refuses to cancel. And I’m honest enough to admit that if it’s around, I’m gonna watch it, so it doesn’t feel fair to me to not kick in.
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Honey: For the phone, look into Virgin Mobile. $35/month, and you can get a good smart phone for $200. Pays for itself in 6 months.
… Except for me, as Virgin Mobile doesn’t have signal in my place. Working on that.
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Honey, why don’t you just colour your own hair? No need to not be the shade you want/like. I stopped ‘paying for colour’ 2 years ago (on the advice of my sister, who was SHOCKED to hear how much I was paying) and just use Nice N’ Easy brand, which I will only buy on sale – under $8.00. When I find a good sale, and use coupons, I often pay only $5. a box and will buy about 3. I set aside one evening to colour, and give myself a facial too, to make it a bit special. Maybe you can do it with a friend?
I purposely grow my hair shoulder-length so I don’t have to get frequent trims, and cut my own bangs (look on the Internet for tips); I then get it layered and styled professionally maybe 4 times a year. I have a job where I do have to look well groomed; and I am in my fifties, so if I can do it, so can you! It’s amazing how much money you can save by doing this.
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Hey Honey Smith,
I quit cable recently and now I watch tv online, when I really want to. I am a huge HBO fan and watch a lot of shows on there, so it was tough for me to get rid of that. My work around for not having hbo is that my friends that have HBO can login through http://www.hbogo.com and watch hbo online (instantly). So, they let me have their login info, so I can watch the shows I love for free. I am loving saving the $40 bucks per month. My next goal is to move into a cheaper place, get rid of my storage unit and work on reducing my monthly food costs. It’s a constant struggle between doing what you want vs what you actually need, but as long as I stay on it and pay attention to my financial details, I am confident I can improve “my margins”. Keep up the good work! Best wishes!
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Jennifer –
You do realize that what you are doing is somewhat unethical, right? It’s not just friendly sharing. From HBO’s perspective, it’s stealing. I’m not one to cast stones, especially because I am the same person that said we were likely to download the next season of Game of Thrones, but at least I feel bad about it. Based on your post, you don’t seem to notice the ethical gray area you are currently in to save money. I see your dilemma, but might I suggest a penance of sorts for your “sins”? We are buying the DVDs of Game of Thrones, since we no longer have cable and are not subscribing. Perhaps you should do the same. It would be cheaper than getting cable and HBO but still support the shows you enjoy so much.
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Jane- penance? For watching shows? That her friends have given her permission to? No thanks.
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Yes, it’s called copyright infringement, and it’s illegal and wrong.
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Yes, Rose, penance. I am using the word tongue in cheek, but I think it gets the point across.
For my actions, I usually tend to apply the categorical imperative.
“Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.”
My question would be – what if almost everyone just borrowed their friends’ HBO logins? Well, the simple fact is that these favorite shows would cease to be made. HBO would go out of business. You are not entitled to watch television. It is not your god given right – you PAY for it either in the form of a subscription or in the form of sitting through network advertising.
Sorry, but I think if you like these shows so much, then maybe you should pay for them in some form, whether it be through a subscription or DVDs. If we are not willing to do this, then maybe we should wait a year or so until it makes it to the library or to Netflix.
Would you also be okay with only paying for one movie and going to see two instead? Or perhaps ordering one soda at a restaurant and sharing it with two or three people?
We have to draw the line somewhere, and this crosses it. I’d rather get rich slower than push ethical limits all the time to save a buck, especially since we are talking about something as banal as entertainment.
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I would look for a beauty school in the area for hair cuts,etc.
I go to one nearby and a full highlight and cut is $50!
A haircut cost just $12.
The. Services are provided by students who attend the school.
I go there 4 times a year along with m teenage daughters and save a ton!
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I’d definetly cut the massage membership, if it’s not because of seriois health issues ofcourse. Cut the phone bill! And as you say, who needs satellite tv, there are so many more useful things to do. And $ 1000 for gifts every year? you shouldn’t buy gifts until you’re out of cc debt. And you say it yourself, the hair care expenses is crazy, can probably be cut A LOT!
Most important, rembember that cutting a lot of small expenses matters when you add them up.
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My massage membership has cut in half the number of times I’ve thrown my back out since starting a desk job. It may not save me a lot of money, but it’s saved me some trips to the urgent care. I may get to the point where I have to cancel it, but I’m not there yet.
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If your massages are medically indicated, see if your insurance will cover part of them.
Also, do you exercise at all- even sit ups and a yoga DVD would strengthen your core enough to keep your back in alignment.
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Are you able to stand for long periods of time? Maybe converting your work area so you could stand could help?
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Hi Honey! It’s nice to have a local on GRS
I’m not sure how many massages you’re getting with your membership, so this may or may not be a good deal. Have you heard of the Arizona School of Massage Therapy (ASMT) in Tempe? The students there give massages at the clinic every Sat & Sun from 8am-5:30pm, and they are very reasonable – $25 for a 50-minute massage. The wait can be long (it’s first come first served, no appts). They frequently have 2-for-1 weekends too, so you can go with a friend and get 1/2 off (pay only $12.50). What most people don’t know is that you can pre-pay and get a bundle of certificates (the more you buy, the more you save), so if you can find someone to go in with on one of the larger packages, you can save up to 50% per massage. Great deal.
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Honey, this doesn’t specifically apply to the massage item, but I just wanted to toss something out since we are all giving suggestions on what to cut from your budget. Right now it may just seem like a whole lot of self-denial but you will probably find that a lot of things you replace your luxuries with (e.g., a prepaid cell phone or hair color at home) are actually just fine, and perhaps even preferable to the higher-cost options. The great thing about this is that when you have paid off all of your debt, you may realize you want to continue coloring your own hair or using other cost-cutting strategies you’ve become accustomed to; only now instead of paying down debt you’ll be building wealth. If you can come up with a good plan and stay on task, it will happen.
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I’m not sure if someone else mentioned it, but for a medical copay at my chiropractor’s office, I also get a massage. You may want to look into it as more chiro’s are offering the service because the massage helps relax the muscles for adjustments. I also ordered a sit-stand desk for about $500. I’m hoping it helps with the backaches.
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Even if you can’t get massages approved for medical reasons (it ain’t easy) you could probably find a massage therapy school in the area. Or at least go a little longer between visits, watch for groupons, etc.
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If Honey has a high-deductible insurance plan, maybe she can sign up for an HSA (health savings account). All she would need is a note from her doctor stating that the massages are medically necessary and then the massages and any other medical expenses she and her husband incur can be exempt from federal tax in April (not sure about state tax).
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This may not work for you but you might be able to look into a standing adjustable desk.
I have one and I stand about half the day. (I had back surgery about 15 years ago.)
I actually lost 10 lbs in about a month just from standing at my desk!
My company paid for it for health reasons.
And my derriere isn’t getting wider!
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I’m surprised at the student loan debt. I have similar student loans and pay 3 times that amount on a standard ten year repayment plan. Can you elaborate a bit on those? Is it just a great deal on interest rates combined with a slow repayment plan?
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It’s possible that she is part of the Income-Based Repayment program if they are federal loans.
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I’m on the 30-year repayment plan. Currently it’s the graduated plan, but I will probably switch to IBR before the end of the year.
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Never heard of a 30 year student loan plan. Back in my day, you had 10 years once you were out of school full-time. You’ve signed yourself up for a mortgage, in essence. Yikes.
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A mortgage that doesn’t appreciate in traditional terms. And a mortgage that has no concrete property or land attached to it that you can sell to get out from under it.
I truly feel for those that have taken on so much student debt. And it’s not going to be forgiven, nor will rules change for it to be dispensed with bankruptcy.
So many are stuck. I just hope that as more people like Honey tell their story that future students will not make the same mistake. And perhaps parents will exert more influence on their children to avoid this type of debt.
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I’m on the IBR plan. It is like a mortgage except my payments are currently $0 a month and it will be forgiven after 25 years.
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Andy – huh? Are you currently unemployed? If not, how are you able to pay nothing? And if you pay nothing for 25 years, in essence your loans were just completely forgiven.
I would like more precise information on how IBR works. Call me crazy, but I think those who took out excessive loans should at least be paying something towards them every month. I would say $50 minimum. And if you say that’s too high, you better not have a cell phone or cable or any other non-necessity.
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Agreed Jane. I paid $70k in loans back myself… I borrowed it, I owe it. No one can make you take out a student loan, you CHOOSE to. Therefore, it is money that you need to pay back. Andy is cheating other students out of the opportunity to borrow at a fair rate and is stealing from the university/government/and whomever else loaned money expecting to be repaid.
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Lee, that’s idiotic. If your lender sets terms of the loan that make repayment contingent on your income, than that lender is betting that you’ll make enough to repay them under that scheme. It’s not Andy’s fault the lender lost that bet.
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Income Based Repayment is paid at a rate of 15% of one’s income that is above 150% of the federal poverty line by family size. It is forgiven after twenty-five years. The amount forgiven will be considered income for that year and taxed accordingly. Or at least that is how I understand the program. The debt can be forgiven sooner if you work in certain public/community service positions.
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Welcome Honey! And hello from a fellow M.
I have to agree with some of the other commenters that the things that really stood out to me were your car insurance (holy moly! We pay about $600 a YEAR for TWO cars! Definitely shop that around!), long term care insurance (just not necessary at your age), the hair care (ask your salon about seeing a junior stylist for cheaper, or switch to a cheaper salon, and nix the fancy hair care products) and the massage membership (I’m not really sure what this is, but it definitely sounds like a luxury rather than a necessity unless you have a health problem that dictates you need it). The advice to look into consolidating your student loans is good, too – I did that 7 or 8 years ago and it ended up saving me about $100 a month. For everything that you can comparison shop (phone service, internet, etc.), do it. You may find out that you’re already paying the cheapest you possibly can, but you might find a better deal that will save you money, too. And then I’d look really hard and carefully at expenses that don’t seem like luxuries that may have unnecessary items hidden in them: Do you really need a smart phone or could you get by with a “dumb” phone with a much less expensive monthly plan? Do you have to buy brand-name or organic groceries, or can you bargain hunt for store brands and cheap stuff, at least for some things? If you really want to cut back on spending, you’re the only one who can ultimately make the decisions – don’t let anyone bully you into thinking you’re irresponsible for spending in one area if you’re being careful about spending in several others! It’s your choice! But you may have to be hard with yourself in order to save enough money to pay that debt off faster.
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Hi, Honey.
I need to second, third, and 200th what everyone said about your massage membership. They are certainly nice to get, but it’s $15 less than what you’re paying for student loan #2. Why not cut those out and put it towards your student loans?
Also, the hair care service at $600? If you color it, you could do it at home. Or you could get it cut a little less often. Or get a lower-maintenance style. Or use a less expensive salon. $62 is still a lot of money for a haircut, IMO. If you had no debt and lots of savings I’d say go for it (and the massage service) but I’d focus on paying stuff off and building up a big cushion right now.
I also wonder about the life insurance. Do you have children? Do you have it offered through your employer? They often have very reasonably priced plans.
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If the self-maintenance are really important to you, look into whether there’s an Aveda Institute or other reputable training school near you – the appointments take a little longer, but it won’t cost as much and the students are supervised, so if you don’t like what’s happening to your hair, someone will step in to correct it. You might also want to see if there’s a massage school near you; they also have discounted rates for sessions performed by students in training.
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I have been going to a hair school for haircuts for about 5 years. Haircuts are $18, and the students do an excellent job. They don’t let them loose on the public until they know what they are doing. They do take about 90 minutes which is a bit longer, but it is worth it. While I could afford full priced cuts, I can’t stomach paying full price when I know I can pay so much less at the school.
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It’s really about what’s important to you: your appearance and relaxation or getting rid of your debt.
If you decide that getting rid of that debt is the real importance, $200 every month isn’t going to make THAT big of a dent. Heck, even dropping the massage, and annual dues isn’t going to help pay it down quickly.
I would very seriously look into a part time job. Deliver pizzas, waitress, find a store you won’t be tempted to spend your whole paycheck at and cashier, mow lawns, babysit, pet sit, etc. Take all that income and put it directly towards your CC debt.
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You are living beyond your means. You don’t want your lifestyle to be impacted, but it really needs to be for you to get out of debt.
Get a second job. Stop buying stuff. Cut your expenses to the bone (Mensa? oh, irony).
Get aggressive with changing your lifestyle or you will be asking these same questions 5 years from now.
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I 100% agree. It’s hard for me to take someone seriously when they are $230,000 in debt and have a massage membership.
I still can’t figure out how Honey is supposedly “getting rich slowly…”
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This all came up before. Getting out of debt is a necessary first step to getting rich slowly. J.D. did it, I did it, a bunch of us did it.
Honey’s addressed the massage question already and I for one am satisfied that if it is a positive for her health, it’s a necessary expense. The hair care, not so much (when I got serious about my debt, I started cutting & coloring my own), but given her family’s health profile, let’s give her a pass on the massage.
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judgemental much? If you read Honey’s responses you would know why she has the massage membership.
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Sorry, but I disagree. I have had two spinal fusions so I know back pain. My husband gives me massages every single day. I also have an office job where I sit at a desk in front of a computer. I traded in my chair for an ergonomic one, moved my phone, and practice meditation to alleviate stress and reduce my back pain. Maybe Honey’s husband could learn the art of massage?
I truly think that Honey needs some tough love. She needs to evaluate each and every penny she is spending. She needs to stop making excuses and rationalizing all of her self-sabotaging actions. Everyone poo-pooing her and telling her everything is going to be okay probably won’t help her much.
But that is just my opinion. My opinion and anything else that I say is on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.
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On the irregular expenses, I would get rid of the membership fees. Next, I would trim gifts, you and your hubby probably should put any gift money between the two of you towards debt. I would try to get that number down to to maybe $200 a year.
Next, your pet expenses are super high. I’ve got a dog myself so I know how expensive they can be but is there a way to trim those expenses, what is that going for?
Your regular expenses seem pretty normal and under control except the massage membership. Do you have credit card debt, I didn’t see that listed.
I see a lot of people mentioned car insurance costs, to me that doesn’t seem expensive at all. I think car ins. is one of those costs that varies wildly from location to location and if she lives somewhere where insurance is expensive then its hard to get that cost down.
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I agree about the regional differences. We’re in Central Florida, paying $1200 for our two cars, and whenever I call around to find lower rates, I’m *literally* laughed at (we’re able to get such “low” rates through a partnership my employer has with the insurance company). And if their cars are newer (which I seem to recall they are?), their insurance will automatically be higher.
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It also depends on age. I’m paying $1400/year for one new car. I live in the city and I’m under 25. I’ve shopped around and the next cheapest was $1900/year.
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Yes insurance rates do vary a lot based on state and specific location. The averages vary from a low of $510 in North Dakota to a high of $1100 in New Jersey. They are in Arizona where rates average $837 which makes it #14th most expensive state. (the numbers are from 2009 so a touch old)
Plus of course it varies a lot depending on the vehicle and level of coverage. I could go get a $200-$300 policy for my Toyota with no comprehensive and minimal liability. But with comprehensive and higher liability I pay $600. If i dove a Lexus it would probably be $900.
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Unless you have grey hair the hair coloring can go. Someday you will wish you had your natural color back when it is replaced by grey. To grow out the color get occasional highlights to camouflage the regrowth until it is gone. I also agree that you could get a lower maintenance style and go longer in between cuts. Longer hair does not need to be cut as often as short styles
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I agree! I’m in my late 20′s (with a couple grey hairs) and I decided a few years ago to enjoy my natural color while it lasts!
Because I’ve also been growing my hair long I only need to get my hair trimmed and shaped (which for me means maintaining the layers)once/ year. I spend about $30/ year at the salon and do microtrims myself at home.
I am jealous about the massage membership and didn’t even know such a thing exists. I consider it a thankful luxury for the 1 – 2 massages I get each year. Wish I could bring myself to pay for more. Maybe Honey, you and hubbs should get a book or take a massage class and give eachother massages.
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I don’t get highlights, the color I was getting was exclusively to cover the gray. But, I’m going to cut that expense anyway.
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Color your hair at home. Not only is it cheaper, but you can do it whenever you have time, as opposed to making time for it. I can multi-task, too, doing other things while it’s processing. My hair color is on sale this week, and there are coupons in the Sunday paper which will make it $4.00/box, and I get plenty of compliments on my hair color. I splurge on shampoo for color-treated hair which makes the color last longer. Something to consider…
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Grey is the new. . .okay, I don’t know what it is, but I’m too cheap (and lazy) to color so I’ve been going natural forever. It’s just so much hassle, and the older you get the fakier it looks, IMHO. But if you’re going to do it, I agree that a box or a beauty school is your best option.
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I definitely agree with going natural. I went gray really early and colored my hair for years. Now I have let it go natural and have gotten quite a few unsolicited compliments from friends and strangers. Where I live there is an Aveda Institute where you can get great student haircuts for $15. That there may be an option similar to that wherever Honey lives.
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Use henna. It comes in at least 6 shades, including “neutral.” My natural hair color is medium brown, sort of a dark honey color. When some of it started turning grey, I started using henna that’s one shade lighter than my natural color. It looks as if I had a very expensive “weaving” job, as it leaves a light brown/dark golden color on the grey hairs. Lasts at least two months. This works best if you let your “processed” hair grow out first. Additional bonus, it’s also a health treatment. Makes your hair feel thicker and look shinier. One small warning: henna may leave a faint reddish cast on your hair through the first couple of washings, depending on the “color” you choose, so plan to do it over the weekend or some time when you don’t care!
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I use henna on my hair and its not for the faint of heart. I use BAQ (body art quality) henna only. True henna is *only* red, real henna doesn’t come in other “colors” unless there’s other elements added to it. If your natural hair is dark brown/black, you can do a two step henna/indigo process, etc. Once you use henna, especially non-BAQ henna, its difficult if not harmful for the hair if you go back.
I say Honey, do a LOT of research if you decide to take the henna plunge.
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Carla, You’re making this waaaaaaaay more complicated than it is in fact. I buy organic henna at Whole Foods. Have been using it for many years, with great success. I did let my processed hair grow out completely before I started using henna. Honey says she has shoulder length hair. She hasn’t said how much gray (grey?) hair she has, but, short of a genetic tendency to becoming Completely Grey At Thirty, she can probably stand to let it grow out without too much embarrassment. She works at a university; I’m not buying her initial assertion that The Hair Thing is a “Need.” This Hair Obsession is part of the enrichment of the cosmetics industry. On that note, I don’t wear makeup, either. I’m lucky; I have great skin. BUT I still think most women look better with no makeup or minimal makeup. Ask any man, if you must. Better yet, answer this question: has anyone ever successfully covered a zit?
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Oleron, you’re indeed lucky to have great skin. I’ve have had acne for over 20 years of my life and its getting worse each year for me again. I do spend money taking care of my skin, co-payments at the dermatologist, facials at a really good local esthetician school (at a fraction of the cost at a spa) and so on. That’s the way it is. No, you can’t completely cover a zit with makeup but trust me, I look 10000X worse without.
About the henna, there is a learning curve for sure. I have super thick, curly hair so that may be a factor.
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This might sound crazy – but I have had acne for 20 years (since I was a teenager) – and it finally cleared up this year because I stopped eating sugar! When I lapse though and have dessert – within the next day or so my acne comes back. I am not saying this is going to be the case for everyone but I was certainly astonished to discover this – you might want to try it.
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DB, I’ve been sugar free for years. I’m also dairy, gluten, (and other potential allergens) free. I still have acne, LOL. Its time for me to bring out the big guns, Accutane. I’ve been avoiding taking it for years and don’t want to take such a powerful drug, but I’m left with no other choice for clearing up my skin.
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At age 45, I stopped coloring my hair completely in 2010 because it was getting too hard to cover the gray! I went from red to my now natural colors, which are dark brown, white, silver, and gray. The grow out period took 11 months and it was pretty awful. But, it was simply the BEST decision I’ve ever made about my hair. I also get many many compliments about it and women saying that they wish they had the guts to have natural hair. My hairdresser said he has maybe one other client with natural hair! Anyway, just showing there are other options besides salon coloring and at-home coloring – no coloring!
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I also see alot of “wants” vs needs. If you are serious about getting this situation under control ASAP, it’s time for some serious consideration of what you view as needs. You have financial obligations to pay off, so you have to sacrifice in other areas or you will never make a dent in it. Assuming that some day you would like to purchase real estate, have a family,it’s imperative to eliminate this debt both to qualify for a loan for real estate as well as to leave options, once you start a family. Some initial thoughts:
-$600/2 people is absurd. I feed a family of 6 (including 4 teens, 3 who are boys) on $500 spent at the store, $50/mo allocated towards an organic 20 week CSA at a local farm, $50 additional is to cover cleaning products, personal care, first aid etc. See my blog as to just what we are eating. Bfst today is OJ, coffee/tea, homemade banana bread, fresh fruit,yogurt. Lunch is a choice of leftovers. Dinner will be a tuna casserole, steamed organic broccoli, tossed salad (much of which is organic)with homemade dressing. I live in expensive Fairfield county, CT-yes it’s possible to significantly reduce this amount. I suggest aiming for ultimately $200/month all inclusive for groceries, cleaning, etc.
CTonabudget.blogspot.com
-hair care is out of line as well. You’ve made some changes. I suggest seeking out alternative salons. Change your hairstyle to extend the amount between cuts, color at home or skip it-you’re in your 20′s so I assume no gray is the issue. Hair product changes recently as well, great. Still see this as a high expense. I do have my hair colored professionally BUT I use grocery store and discount store brand shampoo (color care version does make a difference) cheapo conditioner and whatever hair mousse and spray is on sale with cpn, etc. I spend about $1/can. I must be doing something right, I am often complimented on my hair, it’s in great condition, the color lasts, etc.
-AAA membership-check with your auto ins. Is this duplicate coverage? I have Nationwide and they provide free, roadside assistance. When I was driving a Chevy, they also had the same.
-Are there any discount ins plans available to you thru your Alma Mater or work?
-Drop Mensa and sorority dues, unless this is, for example, a weekly social commitment that you have and you are extreemly active in. Remember, you are in financial bootcamp now. All “extras” got to go!
-$65 massage? If you have a back condition, see if medical ins will cover it, otherwise, drop it. Try an alternative stress reducer that is free!
-Are your cell phones bundled? $68 for yours what about soon to be husbands-the same? Seems high. What is the purpose of the cell? Is it just a communication device? Unlimited text and in plan calls make sense, data charges can go. It seems that it may be duplicating what your laptop does, do you really NEED Internet on the phone?
-Gifts $1000-do you have a huge family? This is $83/month! Cut your gift exchange now! if this includes friends in similar circumstances, they’ll probably thank you. Host an at home holiday pot luck party instead and tell everyone, no gifts, just the pleasure of your company this year.
-Back to life ins. Is that for term life? Is there a health condition that would require that you have disablility now? Understand that most disability plans have a 6 month (or longer) waiting period to kick in, so you’d need 6 months emergency fund to tide you over in the meantime. While I believe in knocking off the debt, you have no savings!
-$10/WEEK “mad money”-what is that for? $2 coffee every Mon-Fri? gum at the convenience store? vending machines? You must think about every purchase you make
Finally, stop using the Credit card until it is completely paid off. Look at what you are paying in iterest. Just what did you put on this card? it’s one thing if it is a medical emergency, car break down type deal but I suspect it’s more like clothes, make up, hair care services, etc. Start an envelope system for cash or use checks.
HTH
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Before dropping AAA in favor of ‘duplicate’ coverage from your insurance, etc. read the fine print carefully. Make sure your other coverage is real towing, etc. coverage and not something that only applies during business hours, nonweekend, etc. and that it covers what AAA covers.
On the other hand, if you do have two newish cars and don’t travel much, you may not need AAA. AAA is best for towing and other big-ticket things.
It’s hard to transition certain things– like food costs, hair care, cable, memberships. Every time you cut one thing, commit to putting that money in emergency savings or right to debt reduction. That’s the only sanity I find.
If your hubby is having trouble committing to debt repayment, you may want to have partially combined finances, where shared expenses come out of one shared account and other expenses– car care, memberships, etc. come out of separate accounts.
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Things to reduce:
• Auto insurance: $500 (twice a year, January and July)
• Gifts: $1000 [explain to your family that you're going to have to be slim on gifts because of your $200k+ loan debt]
• Health care (copays, etc): $1000 [make sure this is absolutely necessary, I don't know how you can spend $1000 just for you in copays unless you're going to 12 doctors each month]
• Vet expenses (pets): $2300 Note: wow, I didn’t remember we paid so much last year. This, however, is a joint expense so last year I would have paid half. [what kind of animals do you have? this seems like the expense that you must have a horse, our 2 cats are $300/yr and are 13 yrs old]
• Pet expenses: $50 [what is this for?]
• Grocery/household: $300 [must be reduced, that's nearly $10/day. i can't even imagine what you are spending it on]
Things to delete:
• Hair care (service): $600
• Hair care (product): $300 [read some blogs on how to make hair care products at home]
• Mensa annual dues: $60 [do you really need to pay this? we already know you're smart]
• Sorority alum club annual dues: $55 [ditto what other people have said, see if you can barter this]
• AAA Plus annual dues: $95 [i fundamentally disagree with AAA, learn to change your own tire and always make sure you have gas in your car, call a friend for help if you need it]
• Long term care insurance: $292 [DELETE, you are to young for this, this is a rip off]
• Massage membership: $65 [luxury. period.]
• Netflix: $8 [watch what is available]
• Life insurance/supplemental disability: $96 [delete. not necessary. no one is depending on you for your income, start policy when you have kids]
At $400-500/month for payback on your student loans, you’re looking at 30+ years for repaying it. You’re barely scrapping by. I hope you take some of these suggestions and make sure you’re going to have your finances together before you decide to have kids. It will stretch you and your husband even further. Some other readers have suggested getting a 2nd job, I would totally agree.
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I would definitely see how you could cut down on your hair care expenses! Right now I am lucky in that I receive haircuts for tip only (so $5 every six weeks or so) but once that ends next year I will go to Great Clips where is is $15 with tip, and I can stretch it to every 8 weeks as I have long hair that doesn’t need too many trims. I see these as a “want” and am unsure why you would spend that much on cut, color & product when you want to get out of debt. Granted this is also a starting list, and you will improve from here, from what I can tell! Thanks for opening yourself up to criticism.
As soon as my son (not quite two) is better able to sit still I will cut his hair, something I am confident I can do. My husband has yet to let me cut his but he also goes to Great Clips so I’d say for the three of us we pay $165 a year!
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I agree with most everyone else that has posted here. If you are serious about getting out of debt and starting to build wealth (I’m assuming you are because you are posting) you need to re-prioritize your life and your budget.
There are quite a few budget items that need to be nixed:
- Mensa Dues
- Sorority Dues
- AAA Dues
- Long Term Care Insurance (You don’t need this until you are 50+ Years old!)
- Massage Membership (Are you getting these because of stress? Reduce the debt to reduce the stress!)
- Netflix
- Life Insurance (No dependents, No Need!)
- Satellite TV (It’s possible to get your entertainment fix from internet alone.)
These items need to be reduced:
- Gifts (Seriously?)
- Auto Insurance (Way too much!)
- Hair Care (Unless it is expected from your job this is unnecessary.)
- Vet Expenses (Yikes! Are they new pets, lots of shots? Was there a procedure of some sort? Do you have 50 cats? This one needs to get under control.)
- Grocery (Is this 300 just for you? I spend $300 for two people. Cut this in half.)
You have plenty of room in this budget to destroy this debt in a reasonable amount of time. It just takes focus and self control. Sit down and be completely honest about what is a want and what is a need. (And spending more in a “need” category than necessary would be a want!)
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In complete agreement. You need to go basic . . . seriously basic.
I got out of school with roughly the same debt, but making twice as much as you and I do not have any of those expenses. My husband cuts my hair. I stopped coloring. I cut out my automatic life insurance through work since we didn’t have any dependents. We just started back up with netflix, but don’t go out to the movies or concerts (unless its free). One and a half years later, I’ve managed to put almost a $40K dent into those loans.
You have to prioritize the debt in order to deal with it. Everything else has to come a distant second. Good luck!
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If you manage to bump your debt payments up from $200 to $1000 per month, and your interest rates are 0, then it will only take you 19 years to pay off your debt. You need to make more money.
Tip for young people: don’t take out $100k in student loans for a degree that’s going to leave you making $15/hr, you’ll never get out from under them. Pick a more lucrative field and/or a less expensive school.
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Tyler makes a great point. Cutting expenses is great, but this debt load at this salary will take forever to pay off. You really need to make more money. Is it possible to attain a higher paying job with your current employer? I’m not sure how demanding your current job is, but can you pick up a second job? Your time is valuable, so I would make sure your second (or third) job pays you enough to make it worthwhile.
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I’m going to stay with my current employer at least until I’m vested in my match at the five-year mark. I do apply for higher-paying jobs at my current employer, though. I have had some interviews, but no offers so far.
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How much longer do you have to wait for the match, and how much is it? Run the numbers. You may net more $$ finding a better paying job now than waiting around being underpaid for the vesting period.
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There’s always the public service option. I had a lucrative (but very boring) career that made my student loans seem like pennies! Got laid off, became a teacher and Obama (bless his heart for this, divisive politics aside) started this program. 10 years of service and have your federal loans paid off. I’m on track to have 20-30K forgiven, plus I like my job a whole lot more! Always an option…
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All comes down to dollars/cents. A new job with more money can counter balance what you stand to gain with the rest of your vesting. Don’t limit yourself and do the math. The math won’t lie.
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One more year until I get the match, and it will be $13,000 or so.
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That’s not a clear win in my mind. Say you found a job *tomorrow* that paid $13k more than your current job. You should absolutely switch jobs, you’ll have made up the losses by the time you’d even get around to vesting. Considering that your current pay is pretty poor (it’s what, about $30k/year gross? That’s not a lot. If you moved from $30k/year to $45k/year, you’d basically just be getting up to near average), you have a lot of room to move up.
Say you even found a job that pays only $5k more than your current job: you’d lose $13k in a year, but you’d make an extra $5k in the year preceding and over the next two years following make an extra $10k and be ahead overall. If you find a good job now, you should take it, even if it costs you part of that $13k in the short term. There’s no guarantee that you’ll find another good job that’s still available after your 401k match vests.
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Honey… appreciate the honesty with which you write, I, along with a lot of the other GRS readers certainly wish you luck, and your goal, while difficult, is obtainable.
You mention sticking with your job to get your match, which you estimate at 13,000 ish. If this is an “all or nothing” vesting schedule, it seems to imply that you are putting away
moderate amounts of money towards a 401k/403b. If it is a graduated vesting schedule (i.e. 20% per year), then it implies you have a very significant amount stowed away and are redirecting a significant portion of your paycheck towards your retirement accounts.
Your expenses listed up above do not indicate money redirected for 401k/403b or other retirement accounts.
Given your debt load, this may not be the best use of money (though it might). Is it possible to provide information towards what is being paid into a 401k/403b style account?
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I contribute 7% of my pre-tax salary. Participation in a retirement plan is mandatory at my employer.
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I’m a little confused about using a CC for purchases while you are also trying to pay down debt. It seems to me that a much better practice would be to use a debit card that is tied directly to your checking account and leave the balance on the card alone except to pay it off. Too easy to fudge around with what you are actually paying down.
There are lots of “nice things” here. The haircare cost/product seems outrageous to me (yes I know everyone likes nice things). Massages are wonderful. I get one maybe once a year because they are very expensive…and I have no debt other than my mortgage.
As an aside, I see the teen friends of my kids (I have boys) getting manicures/pedicures/coloring their hair. What expensive habits today’s youth are creating.
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Agree, when we were paying off our unsecured debt, $55,000, the first thing we did was get rid of all the credit cards (except one which we use for travel or business expenses only) and only used debit.
In my opinion, by only spending current dollars you slowly change your mind set towards money.
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Credit card use in my mind should be directly related to your discipline in terms of how much you put on it and if you can afford to pay it off in full each month.
This is something I’ve come to over the past few years – I, too, used to rely on a debit card rather than a credit card.
But my brother suggested to me that perhaps this wasn’t the best deal, and he’s right – I now put every cent I can on my credit card. I do this because they give me rewards. Good ones. And I don’t pay interest because I am able to monitor my spending through Mint and pay it off in full every single month.
Last year my credit card earned me almost $800. This year I expect it to be more, as I was recently married and it’s now a joint card.
In fact, these ‘extras’ that come from my credit card where instrumental in my ability to pay off all of my school loans (about $45,000) in four years.
Done right, a rewards card can actually be an extra stream of income!
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I really don’t think that Honey and Hubby are withing a million miles of being able to use a credit card the way you do!!
They already owe 2.5 times their combined gross salaries, Hubby sees NO problem at all, and Honey does not seem to SEE how incredibly BROKE they are, spending silly amounts on expensive lifestyle choices.
I hope I am wrong, but I have seen this movie before. It ends in some combination of bankruptcy, divorce, crappy apartments and no children…or worse, single parenting.
The size of the debt is crazee-scary, but Hubby spending like a drunken sailor, because “he deserves it” and Honey’s waste of money on hair, pets, massages, and long term care insurance at this debt level is just as irrational.
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Hmm, if you are paying only $488 for your half of the rent, I’m guessing that you don’t live in one of the most expensive car insurance areas. Unless you’re in the assigned risk pool I think that you can do better. Perhaps getting a family policy for the two of you instead of each having your own could save a lot in that area. I also think you should cut down on your haircare and massages. Those seem like luxuries that you cannot afford. You need to find ways to put more than $200 per month toward debt. Also, please make sure that you are no longer using your credit card for anything until you are able to pay it off every month. Leave the cards at home and remove their information from any website you regularly order from. Good luck to you. I think it is interesting to have someone on here that is still struggling to find their way out of debt.
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Oh, wow, I feel for you. Your initial post outlining your debt made me nervous. However, I do commend you and your husband for taking the steps towards debt freedom.
That said, I also would like to commend you for being open and vulnerable in sharing not only your debt but also your personal expenses. As you know, some people can get pretty judgmental and rude. But hey, you’ll grow thick skin and you will conquer this financial mountain!
While our situation is different, I was able to cut down a lot of expenses and pay my debts using Dave Ramsey’s analogy of attacking debt with “gazelle intensity,” – as if I was running for my life from a predator.
Some of the items below have been mentioned already but I will post them anyway for my complete list to attacking your debt.
1.Shop for better rates for auto insurance and check the rates for the coverages. How much is your deductible? If you already have adequate medical insurance, does it make sense to pay additional for medical in your auto insurance? How much are paying for liability coverages? Since you don’t have substantial assets, you may want to reduce those limits. Before my son got his license I was only paying $60 for full coverage for my 7 year old car. Now that he’s 18 and has a license that’s another story. Hahaha!
2.Hair care service and products – Get a simple cut from a franchise like Supercuts. I know this is hard but having a $15 cut is $180 a year versus your $600 will save you $420. Go back to the basics on hair products. There are a lot of inexpensive shampoo/conditioner/mousse out there for less than $3.
3.Cut the membership dues. When thinking about priorities, yes, they may add value to your life but do they add value in helping you deal with the financial mountain that you are facing?
4.Shop for better rates for your life insurance. USAA has great rates and their life insurance is open even to non-military families. I was in my late 30s when I got my coverage of $500k at $20 a month for 10 years.
5.Ditch the satellite TV. You’ll be saving $444 a year. Most shows you can watch on Hulu.
6.You may want to evaluate your grocery shopping habits. I usually cook from scratch as a healthy alternative and I have 2 teenage sons who are like bottomless pits when it comes to food. My grocery bill comes out to $500 a month.
7. Gifts – How about homemade gifts? In this economy your friends and family who matter would understand if you give them something made from your hands and heart.
My last suggestion is the hardest and would be the most controversial. Give your pet(s) away to a loving family. Don’t get me wrong, I’m an animal lover. When I left my home country, I had to leave a most wonderful dog who gave me and my family so much joy. When I moved here to the States, my financial situation was so bad that I made the decision not to get a pet because I knew how much money it would involve.
Pets are like family, and you have to do what you think is right for your situation. Maybe, like as the others suggest, getting a part-time job would be helpful to offset the costs of having a pet.
I hope I didn’t offend you in any way. And if I did, I apologize. I wish you and your husband all the best in this journey to being debt free.
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I agree with some of your suggestions, Mara but feel you went way too far with the recommendation of getting rid of pets. I doubt Honey would even consider doing that but getting rid of pets is a last resort as it is not likely they will be taken in by a loving family but sit in a cage for a few months before being put down. I would get rid of the junk food buying husband first…just kidding! When my man and I started on our debt reduction journey, there were and still are things that neither of us are willing to cut completely and that is o.k. to a certain extent. It sounds like your husband likes some processed foods and those are the kind you can find coupons and discounts for the easiest! See if he could pick out his favorites, use coupons and plan for the items that have been “spur of the moment”. If you do not completely cut everything he likes out of the budget, perhaps he will not feel the need to grocery shop with you.
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I’d drop the Mensa membership. What do you get out of that, other than bragging rights? Unless you are actively involved in the community and it is therefore a source of entertainment (making it cheap at $60/yr), it seems like something that can go.
You can certainly rejoin some years down the road, but for now, that seems like a frivolous expense (says a lapsed Mensa member herself). Similarly, I think the sorority dues would likely be an obvious cut as well.
Have you looked into a nearby beauty school for haircare? $60 for a haircut is far more than necessary.
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Where I would cut expenses may not work for you, but here goes.
I agree with others that unless you are active in your memberships, they should be dropped at this time. (Exception: AAA.)
Long-term care insurance: great idea when you’re over 50, not so necessary when you’re under 40, unless you anticipate hereditary health issues such as early-onset Alzheimer’s. I would drop it.
Hair care: this depends. I keep my hair short so I spend about $20 every six weeks for a basic cut. However, I’m white, and I know African-Americans have to spend more time and money on hair for styling/straightening, etc. If this is the case for you, then maybe try a student salon or see if you can either DIY or find someone who does it on the side for less.
Massage: while it’s an extra and has to go, I understand that it can make the difference between feeling life still have value and not. Can you find a massage school at a fraction of the price, or train hubby (good luck there), or barter with someone – your massage for my web design/advertising write-up/help spent with accounting/whatever? If you can, excellent. If not, unfortunately, you should put it towards either irregulars or debt reduction. Sorry.
Gifts: try to reduce here – maybe gifts of service or homemade items. I guarantee you that anyone with young children will value a gift of a day’s babysitting far beyond “stuff”.
I know you’re in AZ, but if you can find an alternative to driving (e.g., carpool, biking, public transit) at least some of the time in winter, you can cut down on both your regular auto costs and your maintenance (less time being driven = less repairs needed), maybe also your insurance.
Finally, under the category of what works for me wouldn’t necessarily work for you, this is exactly the reason I don’t have a pet – cost is too high. I wouldn’t say get rid of your pet, but don’t get any more and when Fido passes on, consider not taking another one until you’ve paid off debt. Just as people shouldn’t have children they can’t afford, people should not have pets they can’t afford.
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So…..you wanted expensive college degrees that you couldn’t afford. You got them anyways. Now that you are drowning in debt, you want massages, $600 per year haircare, and Mensa memberships. You can’t afford any of it but you are doing it anyways.
The prevailing pattern here is that you want what you cannot afford. You find a way to prolong your lifestyle at the cost of long term financial stability. You make excuses and rationalize your behavior.
Interesting? Yes. Getting rich slowly? No.
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Soooo this is really judgmental and not helpful. Instead of insulting Honey (and others in this situation) maybe you could offer some advice. If she works to pay off her debt, she will be getting rich slowly…and becoming a staff writer gives her just a bit more to put towards paying off the debt.
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Advice? She is the “staff writer.” Shouldn’t she be in a position to be giving out advice?
Here’s my advice:
Stop spending money on anything other than absolute necessities- food, shelter, transportation, and insurance. You’re broke.
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Wow – isn’t that the point of this site, to help people get out of debt? Just because you are there already, doesn’t mean that everyone else is too and can see things as clearly as you do. The fact that she is posting where she is means that she is working on getting out of debt (just not in the way that you think she should). Life is not always black and white – and some decisions seem much harder to those people who haven’t yet had their rock bottom epiphany.
Try to remember that you were once in debt and got out…others need to go through the same process…if you weren’t ever in debt then good for you but unfortunately you are not the norm.
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Have you read all of Honey’s posts? I have read all of them- the one about her wedding where she put it on her credit card (while already being over 200K in debt), the one where she talked about “the reckoning” and made excuse after excuse for her problems. Now she has written this story which is basically a compliation of all the excuses that I have read already.
I have the right to have an opinion just like you do. Yes, my opinion is harsh but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t how I truly feel. I think that Honey would benefit from hitting “rock bottom” and realizing that not only did she create the problem she is in…but she is also her worst enemy.
Also, I have paid off debt myself. While in that process, I wasn’t having my hair professionally done, I didn’t have a massage membership, I wasn’t paying to belong to memberships, I wasn’t spending $600 per month on food for two people, I didn’t have satellite tv (or any cable at all), etc. The list goes on and on and on.
The bottom line is this: Honey’s situation is dire. She is hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and getting out of it will require DRASTIC action. I hope that she takes that action and doesn’t follow the advice of people like you who think that she will find her way over time, learn her own way, etc.
I am not a member of Mensa, but I have to tell you that I am absolutely amazing at addition and subtraction. I know that Honey will almost never be out of debt while paying the very little she is paying and living the lifestyle that she is still choosing to live. I know that having such an enormous debt means that she does not have time on her side. She doesn’t have the luxury to not act quickly and drastically.
That is my opinion. Take it or leave it.
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As someone who has made some similar choices to Honey, I saw Holly’s comments as right on, with a solid dose of tough love, etc. I am solid enough in my GRS journey to admit that:
I too have “[made] excuses and rationalize[d] [my] behavior.”
I read this statement as advice to stop making excuses and rationalizing my behavior. In fact, even though I’ve made a heap of progress on understanding my finances, I appreciate a reminder to watch out for “excuses and rationalizing” (lifestyle creep!). I’m guessing Honey is strong enough (or soon will be) to decide how to handle a comment like Holly’s.
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I’m honestly shocked by how little you are paying per month towards your students loans. I was paying that 10 years ago, and I only had $16,000 in debt. That amount is ridiculously low in light of the amount of debt you have.
You must accelerate that. I repeat – you MUST. Else you will be strapped with your debt for decades and decades. It is simply untenable.
Frankly, this post depresses me. I appreciate that Honey came here to learn. Really she should thank her lucky stars that she got this writing gig. Not only is she going to be getting FREE advice, but presumably she is getting paid to write. In my mind, she has very little to offer here in advice and much to gain in insight from truly frugal people.
I guess the verdict is out for me on whether she was a good choice for a writer. It’s good in the sense that we can watch her debt journey. But I don’t think I can learn from her at all. Sorry, but that’s how I feel.
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I don’t think those who have already paid off debt and already have a frugality mindset may learn much from Honey, except perhaps gratitude that they didn’t have to learn what they know the hard way, and a chance to work through any judgmentalism about how others should be. I am interested in Honey and what she is learning and how her mindset changes over time because I share some of her issues. Fortunately not over $200K in student loan debt, but $13K credit card debt that is proving stubborn to erase, a mate who isn’t on board (because he believes debt is a natural part of adult life and cannot be eradicated), a job that pays about what she makes (though DH doesn’t make anywhere near $90K), and trying to be frugal while also discovering what my gazingus pins are. Although I don’t want anyone else to be in the same boat with me, I find it difficult to believe I’m the only GRS reader who struggles to pay off old debt incurred with an old mindset. Since I lack the ability to go back in time and do things differently based on what I know now (which is what I learned by doing things wrong the first time), I’d like strategies for moving forward.
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I understand that there is a distinct unfairness in which women in certain professional positions are essentially required to spend a kind of ridiculous amount of money on beauty upkeep, and that Honey may not be able to cut those expenses as much as we’d like to suggest.
But I don’t understand what we’re supposed to learn from someone who’s basically throwing pebbles trying to chip away at her mountain of debt, and isn’t thinking, “hey, maybe I should scale back the $1700 I’m spending each year on hair and massages.”
Mensa’s a pretty small expense in the big picture, but does it net you any real benefit? Because, honestly? From the outside, all a Mensa membership seems to do is make a person seem really pretentious.
I know this is kind of harsh, and I (kind of) wish I were being nicer, but I’ve just found every post by Honey so freaking infuriating.
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It isn’t the dollar amount of the money she spends…
It’s the MINDSET!
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You know, this made me realize there was a math error – the $1000 in medical expenses for the year INCLUDES massage, since it is what stopped me from throwing my back out every couple months. If I exclude the $780 that is massage, then my copays and etc. for the year are about $220, which alters my bottom line considerably.
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I couldn’t agree more. This woman is 33 years old! She’s not a kid, and she needs to grow up. I don’t live this kind of lifestyle and my partner and I make 50% more than she and her husband do and have no debt — not even a mortgage or car loans. But, then again, we are 40-year-old “millionaire next door types,” and would never dream of spending this kind of money with that debt load. She seems totally out of touch with reality.
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Sorry — I just saw on page two of the comments that she charged part of her wedding on her credit card. I’m speechless. Why is GRS giving her a forum for this nonsense??
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As someone who is also paying off student loans with the very, very, very little income I have, I’m excited to follow your journey! Here are my two cents on your situation, although not two situations are different and I don’t know much about your area’s cost-of-living.
I think I’m going to agree with many above commenters that hair-care upkeep is really expensive. If you go from a cut-and-color to just a cut and style (which you said was $62) and you only go every three months, that saves you almost $100; consider buying hair care products in bulk (you can get HUGE things of Biolage at JC Pennys for $20 sometimes!) and going with cheaper stuff for gel/mousse/hairspray etc.
I spend about $150 on groceries, with my partner ponying up for the other $150. We buy generic everything and plan our meals weekly (as best we can). To get the ball rolling on your payments, you might challenge yourself to a $200/month grocery budget for ONE MONTH, and then put that extra toward loans. One month is do-able, and will get the ball rolling.
On a side note: your student loan payments don’t include your husband, right? Will you be sharing how much his payments are and how this effects your financial goals as a couple?
Again, looking forward to reading your posts!
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The next post will be about Jake’s income and expenses. So far he’s on board in theory (he agrees debt is bad) but it’s yet to translate to change on his part. There are lots of good suggestions here, and I hope to think of a way to approach this will him that leads to action.
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I’d really encourage you to look at some changes with your husband where food is concerned – it doesn’t have to be all or nothing, but it can definitely a huge chunk that you can change.
I have many friends who wander around the kitchen trying to decide what to eat, or make that night, and end up wasting a lot of food and eating a lot of junk.
For my husband and I (we’re newlyweds too – just hit 6 months! so we’re still figuring this out as well), we’ve found that it’s not just a moneysaver to plan our meals – it’s a stress reducer /and/ we’ve come to enjoy cooking and eating together as much as, if not more than, eating out.
We don’t scrimp and save on groceries. I do use coupons, but only ‘convenient’ ones.
What we do do is make a list of things we love to eat. Like, love. When we make pizza, it has portabellas and artichokes and poblano peppers on it, based off an artisan pizza my husband loves at an expensive pizza shop.
We order tamarind extract off amazon so that we can make delicious pad thai at home.
We load up the sauteed veggies when we have steak or pasta, because we love them.
I have a breadmaker (years and years old – you can often find them on craigslist or at garage sales) and since we’ve started using it, we enjoy fresh french bread, homemade ciabatta bread, and homemade pizza dough for very little work and pennies on the dollar – and it’s bakery-quality stuff.
Basically, we buy quality and we cook food we really, really like. This helps us keep our eating-out budget down /and/ we find that we enjoy the process.
More importantly, sitting down every week (we grocery shop on Friday nights) and planning out a menu for the week means that we don’t stress over what to make, we waste very little food, and we’re rarely tempted to just throw up our hands and eat out or eat expensive, prepackaged meals.
See if you can pitch menu-planning to your hubby on a trial basis. Try it for one month and see how you like it. Then make it as easy as possible for him to get on board. Make a list of the things you love to eat. Daydream about awesome new foods you can learn to cook. Each week, use a small erase board to jot down what you’re having every day (with room left for leftovers or eating out where appropriate) so that you know right away what’s on deck.
Let him have his extras during this time, but take note and see how much is actually being consumed and how much is being wasted. If things are being wasted, consider ways to make them last longer before going stale or rotting.
See how it goes. I think you might be surprised at how much easier it actually is to deal with food this way, and you may see costs go down without really even trying.
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I think you’d be better served putting things into ‘Wants’ and ‘Needs’:
Needs:
- Auto insurance – shop this. If you qualify for USAA, they are fantastic, and roadside assistance is $4/month. Kill the AAA.
- Auto expenses (repair/maintenance): ok
- Auto registration: ok
- Health care (copays, etc): This is just your copays? That seems…excessive. Do you have any control over getting this down?
- Renter’s insurance: Smart and a good rate. (Again, USAA also covers this, if you are eligible)
- Electricity: Seems reasonable
- Gas, auto: Looks good.
- Grocery/household: $300 per person? Halve it, and you can still eat well.
- Cell phone: Depending on the type of phone, and how often you use it (perhaps need a smartphone for work?), this may be ok. If it’s just because you text like a fiend, trim it.
- Rent: This is your half? Get a two bedroom place and a roommate.
- Student loans: Consolidating may be an option, but it will push your payoff date back, and reset your 20 years.
Wants:
- Hair care (service): I trade social media/marketing services for my hair care and products, which would otherwise but similar.
- Gifts: This is high to me, and I’ve a large family. Cut it down until the debt is under control
- Vet expenses (pets): Unless you have 10 pets, this is insane. $50/month for food, meds, is a bit much, but what I pay for 2 spoiled dogs on the best flea/heartworm meds and food. The vet bill is crazy, though. You may want to find a new vet.
- Mensa annual dues: Only if you are getting a serious ROI, emotionally, career-wise, etc.
- Sorority alum club annual dues: Same as above.
- AAA Plus annual dues: Kill it.
- Long term care insurance: You are too young for this.
- Pet expenses: ok
- Massage membership: There needs to be a serious justification for this one.
- Netflix: Ok.
- Internet: Really good, actually.
- Withdrawal/cash: For???
- Life insurance/supplemental disability: Possibly unnecessary. You just need enough to cover your expenses if you pass away.
- Satellite TV: Seems ok, I guess. I just got a Roku, an antenna and added Hulu+, and am set.
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I’d say your expenses are very minimal and whatever scope there were people have identified already. At this point just concentrate on generating extra income. GRS side gig would help you and if possible get some more staff writing position.
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How about cutting all hair Cut and color expenses? Grow your hair out for a couple I years and donate it to locks of love. They don’t accept color treated hair, so you have a great ‘feel-good’ reason to save a big hunk of change there.
Also, I’m surprised you list life and supplemental disability as expenses. Does your employer not offer these at all? It’s worth checking as you might already have at least some coverage. Also, how much life insurance do you need if you don’t have any dependents?
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When I was in a similar situation, I would think the following all the time: “Is this hour of my life saving me money, making me money, or costing me money?” Then I started changing what I chose to do with my time in order to stick with the first two categories as much as possible. Of all the options available, making more money is definitely where you want to put your focus!
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Holy crap! That’s a lot of debt. When you owe that much money, you need to batten down the hatches and cut out as much expense as you can. You can try to get a side job. That will help you cut expense and increase income. With less time to watch TV, you won’t need satellite or cable. Good luck!
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My suggestions:
Reduce your food budget.
http://thirtyaweek.wordpress.com/
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/10/21/20-favorite-dirt-cheap-meals/
http://www.allyou.com/food/supercheap-meals/cheap-recipes-00411000070180/
Increase your income.
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/things-to-do/50-ways-to-make-money
Enroll in Upromise to help with the student loans.
Reduce your hair budget. Go to cheaper salons, find a beauty school, etc.
Best of luck!
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I was in a similar situation as you a few years ago and the only solution I saw (and continue to see) is Tyler’s. He’s often more blunt than I would be, but what he says is true – you need to make more money.
In the short term I would commit to living bare bones until the credit cards are paid off. Paying off $30,000 is achieveable with a Dave Ramsey type plan of no spending, extreme frugality and it would give you a mental boost to see those gone. No massages, no fancy hair products, no cable/satellite until you are out of credit card debt.
You can do that for a few years and still survive unscathed. I paid off $110,000 in credit cards and other unsecured debt in under 2 years (although I make a lot more money that you do) by living on $1500 a month and using the rest of my income to hack away at the bills. This required radical life changes for me (I know that many people live on $1,500 a month forever and realize how lucky I am) but I would do it again in a heartbeat to be done with those credit cards.
In order to deal with your student loan debt you have to up your income. Anyone who tells you that you can “frugal” your way to knocking that out on your current income is kidding themselves. I owe about $80,000 in student loans and I have a plan to pay it off over 5 years and still allow myself some luxuries like massages, etc. I don’t think it is sustainable to tell you to spend the next 20 years in extreme frugality mode but if you could make more money you could live better and still make some headway on the student loans.
I may have missed it somewhere, but what degree did you get for that $100,000? Two grand a month seems like a low salary. Not to be a downer, but my receptionist clears more than that. Are there real opportunities for you to increase your actual full time income coming soon? (I know this blog likely pays something but you need more significant $$ than a part-time gig, in my opinion.) Is your husband going to help pay off your loans if his business takes off? Maybe if you have that arrangement you could focus on helping him grow his new company?
If I were your money coach I would focus on increasing income as a top priority.
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We did the same, killed $55,000 in unsecured debt in just over a year working Dave Ramsey’s plan. But I think that level of intensity is hard when you see years and years of debt ahead of you.
But, it might be worth it for them to at least do a year of Dave Ramsey beans and rice, rice and beans and killing at much debt as they can and then moderate it after a year or so.
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Sam,
I completely agree that level of intensity is impossible for most people (me included) to maintain long term. I think it works for credit cards but for longer term debt like student loans and mortgages, few can keep it up.
I like Dave Ramsey but when I read stories like Honey’s I realize that frugality only gets you so far. I really think he needs to update his book with some information on increasing income. I know for a lot of people that topic seems used car salesman like but in some cases – like Honey’s – it is the only solution that is really practical.
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I’m not going to pile on with what everyone else has said regarding the $1700 per year you are spending on hair care and massage. That should be pretty obvious.
Your gift budget is very high.
How many doctor’s appts do you have per year that you are paying $1000 in copays? I think I spent half that last year for all my medical expenses including my one permanent prescription and a new pair of eyeglasses. If you can’t reduce those costs you may want to see if your employer offers a healthcare spending account where you can contribute pre-tax for these expenses.
Several people have suggested shopping your car insurance, and that is a good idea. Get quotes from several different companies, including with both you and your husband on the same policy. Many carriers consider credit score in their rating – based on your debt load I doubt yours is any good, so you should try to find a carrier that either doesn’t use that factor or only considers it a small portion of their rating. You don’t have a car payment (good!) so do you need physical damage coverage on your cars? I do not recommend reducing your liability limit though – higher limits of coverage are relatively inexpensive, and the amount of a claim could exceed your insurance coverage and you could wind up with wage garnishment and all that stuff – don’t be underinsured! Driving safely and not racking up tickets, accidents or other small claims are the best ways to keep your premium down.
Finally, your food budget is out of control. I think you mentioned previously that you are a vegetarian, so without the cost of meat I can’t imagine what you are spending on. Check out blogs like http://www.moneysavingmom.com for some great coupon and food budgeting tips. Some of her content is definitely about raising kids cheaply, which doesn’t pertain to you yet, but she does a lot with couponing, meal planning, freezer-friendly recipes, etc. Poke around her archives. She spends a ridiculously small amount on grocery costs for her family of five, so there are definitely tips you can pick up from her. That blog also has a rich community of commenters, and there are plenty of people on that site who follow all sorts of specialized diets including gluten-free, vegetarian, and all sorts of other stuff. They definitely don’t suggest you eat frozen tuna noodle casserole for a year. Maybe you can’t coupon for fresh fruits and vegetables, but if you can get toilet paper, toothpaste and pasta for free with coupons, that will help. Learn to meal plan so you don’t waste food and always have something ready to go for dinner so you don’t rely on takeout. You may find batch cooking helpful (I do), and a crockpot can be your new best friend.
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I’d love to see a post later on in the process about how they are combining their finances, consolidating their expenses, insurances, etc. (to whatever level they decide) and how this changes their debt repayment strategy – whether its easier or harder.
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The massage could very well be for a health issue. I get a massage once a month because of nerve impingement. Maybe your doctor could refer you to a massage therapist at a physical therapist’s office. That way it would be just a co-pay for you. Since I maxed out my PT visits on my insurance, I go to a lady who does massages independently and offers a discounted “punch card”, so the massages are $45 each. So, a good therapist who works independently might be cheaper than one of the chains offering the memberships.
To reduce your grocery bill, you could try bread outlets (I average $15 for 2-3 months worth), scratch-and-dent type places, food co-ops in your area (I’ve done Bountiful Baskets; be aware it can be mediocre or fantastic in terms of quality and quantity), asking for boxes of seconds at the farmer’s market to freeze, and finding out when the meat and produce depts in the grocery store mark down products. Having a small chest freezer would help here.
Good luck on your journey!
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Congratulations and welcome, Honey! Looking forward to reading your stuff.
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You said you are taking home about $2000/month. That is not a lot of money for all the extra’s you have. Here are some suggestions:
1. I am an alum of a sorority and I understand wanting to pay your alum dues, but in both my husband’s and my case, you are still an alum without paying the dues. Don’t send them money until you are out of debt. This might make you feel guilty, but do it anyway
2. You have satellite tv, netflix, and the internet. I am not going to suggest that you stop paying for all of these, but I would suggest cutting one out. Almost every tv show I watch, I can get on the internet or on netflix, so I would suggest cutting out the satellite tv. You might watch a lot of sports or not a lot of regular shows which cannot be watched on the internet, in that case cut out netflix.
3. Cut out the other memberships as well, Mensa, AAA and massage club.
4. You spend less than I do on hair cuts, but way more than I do on hair products. I would say, see if there is a way to cut down on your hair products, including using less as lots of people use a huge glob of shampoo when they only need a little bit.
5. Between the two of you, you are spending $600/month on groceries. See if you can cut that down by $50-100.
These things will not save you a ton of money but it should free up a couple hundred dollars a month to send to loan payment or save for emergencies.
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Honey, I applaud you for putting your finances out there for all to see. It seems pretty clear that if you want to make a dent in your debt, you’ll have to cut some things out. But make sure you don’t get so overwhelmed by all the helpful suggestions people are giving that you make decisions that don’t work for you. I’ve had too many friends cut things TO THE BONE, and, just like a diet, they end up bingeing down the line.
As JD constantly mentions, make sure you’re practicing conscious spending: if you want to keep the massages, maybe at least cut down on the frequency. Or wait until you’ve saved up for it by dumping your coins in a jar or something. I guarantee you’ll appreciate them more!
Good luck on your journey. I look forward to reading about it.
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Thanks, Christine! I will not end up doing what everyone suggests (although some of that is because people are suggesting exact opposite things!) but I am getting some good ideas to go forward with.
And while I agree with those commenters who say that I’m not one to be giving financial advice at this stage, other commenters have said that they also have lots of student loan debt and are struggling to find ways to deal with it. So I’m not the only one being “helped” here, there are lots of other folks who now have access to advice they wouldn’t otherwise get. I think that’s a Good Thing, as Martha Stewart might say.
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I have not read previous comments, so forgive me if this is a repeat of what others have written.
Here’s what I would consider unnecessary expenses that you need to cut:
- Haircare and hair product. I get that haircuts are expensive, but get them less frequently, and either stop coloring your hair or color it at home. If you get expensive straightening or perms, just do it yourself. It’s not hard, I blow out my curly hair every other day. Hair products – you really don’t need to buy salon products, they are no different than drugstore products, I promise.
- Sorority alumni dues and mensa dues – neither of these are necessary expenses
Things you should try to cut:
- Shop around for auto insurance or call your insurance company and find a way to lower your cost. For example, progressive will charge you less if you put a monitor in your car.
- Cell phone – can you combine with your husband or get a cheaper plan? Very few of us need the minutes that we’re getting on our plans.
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First, thanks for your courage in putting your budget out for public review. That takes a thick skin, though I think you’ll get (and have gotten) lots of solid feedback from doing it.
Others have picked on the stuff that seems extravagant, so I’ll leave those for things a little more mundane. $68/month for your cell phone? We pay around $120/month for four phones, and could go cheaper if we went with prepaid and were intentional about using VoIP more often.
Could you save money on a family plan? Pre-paid? Does Jake’s business cause him to be home and he could use a landline and/or VoIP?
Look at your auto expenses too. Others have suggested shopping around on your auto insurance, but let’s start with the fact of two cars. Is public transit or biking an option for either of you? Is Jake’s business something he does from home? Could one of you drop the other off?
Lots of families get by on just one car — get creative. You’re acting like you’re two single people who happen to be roommates; get going with the economies of marriage.
That actually relates to more general advice looking at your budget — you seem to be in a mode of looking for what you can do based on what’s working for you now. Start from the other end — decide what you’re going to do, then find a way to make it happen.
Put one of your incomes against the debt? Live on one car? Live without cell phones? Set yourself an ambitious goal, then get creative about meeting it, not the other way around.
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Oh, and I didn’t see the massage membership. That is a luxury and needs to go.
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Boy, did this post bring the smug, self-satisfied scolds out from behind the woodwork!
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There have been some harsh responses to Honey’s posts, I’ll agree.
But I’ll admit I’m really confused. People took the time to spell out what has real potential for cuts and thus far, the hair products/services look to be the only potential.
If her spouse is “refusing” to cut their TV bill and their grocery bill, and the rest (massages, memberships, insurance) are not going to be cut — what is there to discuss?
I know her posts have created traffic and comments, so I presume that was a consideration into her being a regular contributor, but I have to say I’m (again) feeling voyeuristic and come away with the feeling of “I must be a financial genius with no worries” and/or some other non-productive opinion.
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I kinda feel this way, too. We’re getting one side of the story as it is, and it’s just…it feels uncomfortable.
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