This article is from new staff writer Honey Smith.
In my last article at Get Rich Slowly, I gave the background on my income and expenses. My husband’s income and expenses are a little more difficult to compile. For one, Jake left the life of a steady paycheck about a year ago in order to start his own business. This means that his income fluctuates, which of course we knew going in. It also means that the first few years he’s going to make much less than we hope he will eventually. We also knew that going in.
However, another major factor is that Jake’s idea of budgeting is “make so much money it doesn’t matter what you spend because you can afford it all.” When he started working at The Big Firm right out of law school and was making $90,000 a year, this was something that was more or less possible, especially since he was working 80+ hours a week and didn’t accumulate vacation or sick time. He didn’t have time for anything really spend-y. However, even though he’s now living the entrepreneur’s life, he’s resistant to budgeting. Earlier this week I sent him J.D.’s article about how to budget for an irregular income, and his response was:
This assumes that I actually have a budget…which I do not. I just make however much money I happen to make and pay whatever bills happen to fall due. Perhaps it’s not the best system, but it’s worked well so far.
I suspect that it’s going to take a major crisis or two of his own making before he comes to view things differently. One of the things I’ve learned over the last six years is that he almost never agrees with me the moment when I propose something; however, six months to a year later he’ll suggest it like it was his own idea. Go figure.
Since there’s nothing I can do at this point to convince him without violating the tenets of how to talk to your partner about money, I’m willing to wait. And to keep our finances separate, at a minimum, until we’ve reached a point where we are more in sync.
Even then, like J.D. and Kris, we may opt to continue to keep our finances separate. Interestingly, like J.D., Jake also grew up in a household where access to money was used as a weapon, and Jake is also the spender in our relationship. On the other hand, I don’t recall my parents ever having a single argument about money, and Jake referred to me yesterday as “the most frugal girl he’s ever dated.” In the meantime, though, since his situation does affect me and I have access to his Mint account, I have started compiling his data so it’s ready for him to work with when he comes on board.
Jake’s Irregular Expenses
Unless otherwise noted, the amount listed reflects just his share, even for things like auto insurance that will be joint going forward, since we haven’t combined finances yet. For some categories — like auto expenses, gifts, and healthcare — I’m assuming his costs are about the same as mine until I have data suggesting otherwise. These are annual numbers.
- Auto insurance: $840. This is the annual total; he pays $420 every six months in January and July. Similarly, in my recent post when I said my auto insurance was $500, that was also the annual total. I pay about $250 every six months.
- Auto expenses (repair/maintenance): $250
- Auto registration: $250. Quite a bit more than mine, since his car is 8 years newer (and also much nicer).
- Gifts: $1000
- Health care (copays, etc): $500. Numerous people said my $1000/year estimate was high, and when I double-checked, I realized that I’d double-counted my massage costs in both the irregular expenses category and the recurring monthly category. This means my actual irregular medical expenses last year were closer to $230. However, I think it’s best to estimate high in this category, and I know Jake has more prescriptions than I do.
- Vet expenses (pets): $2300. As noted in my previous breakdown, he would have paid half of this. All three of our pets had dentals last year, and one of the cats had an extraction while the other had some medical issues that had to be resolved before she could go under anesthesia. This category also includes grooming for the dog (a poodle), which runs about $50 per grooming.
- Mensa annual dues: $60
- Total: $4050
I am sure there are expenses I am missing, and will be filling in this category over time. For example, he recently spent $437.36 on his 30,000 mile check-up, so he’s over my initial estimate. However, not only should he not spend any more this year (knock on wood), I believe that’s the first major repair/maintenance since he bought the car in 2008. And, since he is only driving an average of 7,500 miles/year (and that average should be dropping even more now that he works from home), we fall into the category of “gentle drivers” and these costs should stay relatively low.
Jake’s Regular Expenses
Like the irregular expenses, the amounts listed below reflect only his share for things, even if they are a joint expense. Accordingly, the pet, grocery, Netflix, internet, rent, satellite cable, renters’ insurance, and electricity categories should be doubled if you want to get an idea of our joint/mutual costs. Please also note I solicited more information about his credit cards and have updated the information that originally appeared here. For his payments, however, I am going by what he has paid historically, not what the minimum payment actually is. These are monthly numbers.
- Gas, auto: $55
- Pet expenses: $50
- Grocery/household: $300
- Cell phone: $135 (Note: Jake uses his cell phone for the business, too, though I’m not sure if or how he separates it from his personal use.)
- Drycleaner: $40
- Netflix: $8
- Internet: $32.50
- Satellite cable: $37
- Renters’ insurance: $9
- Electricity: fluctuates throughout the year, in summer $100
- Withdrawal/cash: unknown, I suspect it varies widely
- Charity: $10 (Humane Society)
- Haircuts: $18
- Rent: $488
- Student loan 1: $180
- Student loan 2: $70
- Student loan 3: $176
- Student loan 4: $112
- Auto loan: $300
- Credit Card 1 ($12,697.64 @ 4.99% for life): $400
- Credit Card 2 ($2,202.87 @ 7.5% variable): $200. This is the one in my name.
- Credit Card 3 ($2,648.33 @ 3.99% for life): $200
- Credit Card 4 ($1,875 @ 0% until 3/6/13): $175. His share of the wedding expenses not covered in advance.
- Credit Card 5 ($8,175.51 @ 0% until 9/1/12): $125. A loan to the business to sign up for a year’s subscription to a client-referral service.
- Credit Card 6 ($1,350 @ 9.99%): $150. A loan to the business to cover his partner’s expenses when he was short.
- Total: $3,370.50
Jake’s Income
Here’s where it gets tricky. Since January he’s paid himself twice per month in amounts varying from $400 to $5,963.98. Based on his disbursements year-to-date, he can expect his gross salary for the year to be $47,577.42. On average, he’s grossing $3,659.80 per month.
On the surface, then, he’s making enough to pay his bills plus a little extra. However, I’m sure he’s spending it all (that is, I expect that eating out and miscellaneous purchases would take us to the limit of his gross salary). I guess this is what he means when he says “it’s worked well so far.” However, he hasn’t been paying quarterly estimated taxes. There are some structural changes to the business that took effect August 1st, and he’s been waiting for that to start his quarterly payments.
Based on my calculations (which I will freely admit are pure guesstimates based more or less on my own withholdings), he can expect to owe approximately $8,840 by the end of the year. This amount should include federal and state income tax, social security, and medicare. Based on his earnings to date, he should have $4,760 set aside for taxes as of this moment. Guess how much is in his savings account right now? $4,194.99. So he’s short of where he should be and since he had been thinking of that as his emergency fund, not his tax fund…well. You see the dilemma.
Where to Go From Here?
Regarding budgeting, my plan is to continue to suggest it and wait for him to catch on before deciding whether to combine finances. He’s never even calculated any of this himself, though I did share the projected tax information with him, which he appreciated. While he freely admits he has no idea when any specific bill is due and is always surprised when they arrive, he also doesn’t see any need to change the system when he’s never been late paying any bill and pays more than the minimum on all his credit cards.
On the positive side, his average disbursement to himself has doubled from about $1,000 to about $2,000, so his business is growing.
What would you do in my situation, if your goal was to end up like this couple? As I mentioned in the comments of my previous post, I refuse to become The Girl Who Only Says No or The Girl Who Only Talks About Money, because that will only poison the well for every aspect of our relationship, not just our finances.
I admire a lot of what J.D. and Kris said in their interview with Redbook, and they had a successful multi-decade marriage and a successful (and much rarer) amicable divorce. So please note I will only consider advice that is both relationship-affirming as well as financially astute!
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Since you are now a GRS employee and not a reader/writer, I guess the gloves are off. I can’t fathom why you were hired, unless as a bad example to the readers. It seems that you are just asking for help from the readership, and like your husband, you don’t seem to want to be compliant. I say this with the greatest respect. Your husband doesn’t want to meet you halfway in most regards. He has a fledgling business with a partner that can’t manage day to day expenses. Yet he wants to buy a house when you have over $200k in debt already. Still, he wants to relocate. How would that business survive, or would he abandon it? Houses in the Northeast are about five, yes, 5 times more than those in Arizona. You would be hard pressed to find a house suitable for a Phd and a lawyer for under $500k. But, you would be closer to the Dooney and Burke factory in CT and could go to the warehouse sale. Then again there are thousands of 5 or 6 year associates from law firms looking for jobs because they didn’t make partner. The fact that your husband thinks he can dictate or argue about you buying a handbag is chilling. Yet your electronics charges are almost as much on a yearly basis as your pet expenses. My 55 year old cousin divorced her husband after she found out that he never paid income taxes for a few years. She was liable for his taxes. She was not viewed as an innocent spouse. The liability existed for almost 15 years, then the IRS gave up. She could not work due to rheumatoid arthritis so she was practically penniless. If you relocate, you will probably do so to a state that will make you liable for his debts, (including his partner’s shortfalls). I don’t see any hope for your situation unless he grows up overnight. You will always play mother to his little boy. Sorry, but I’ve seen it all.
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I think the best advice people have given is to lead by example, and put things in the context of how you want to pay down your debt. For example, instead of not eating out because you think he spends too money, don’t eat out because you want to put your half of that money towards your debt. If you don’t watch the cable, tell Jake that you’re uncomfortable having it because you want that money going to pay off your debt. In the very least, you’ll be putting yourself in a better situation and, at the best, he may start copying your behavior eventually.
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Wow, I missed the part about him not paying taxes. This is a lot worse than you think. And your attitude seems too laid back and relaxed.
Disregard my earlier advice. You need to hire a good divorce attorney and accountant. This will n
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Excellent article, I’m in a similar position except my husband is the only one with income. I like the idea of compiling information for when he is ready to look at the numbers.
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Hi Honey,
For me, most important thing to remember is that I didn’t marry him for his money. We keep separate accounts and he gives me a fixed amount every month toward the mortgage, but beyond that we don’t keep scrupulous track of who pays what; some bills he always pays, some I always pay, some we trade off depending on who has the money at the time.
I have been able to build a reasonable amount of savings in the 10+ years we’ve been together, even as he deals with credit card and IRS debt, and that has come in handy when we’ve needed a new roof or when we find a tremendous deal on a trip to Ireland. We are able to live a little, he is working on his debt and getting better all the time – spontaneously without my nagging he has decided that he doesn’t want to carry a balance on his credit cards anymore! Still we each at times get frustrated with the other’s priorities, but as long as I remember I didn’t marry him for his money, we can make it all work.
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Except that to a certain degree the way she talk about the future success of his business, him being a lawyer, and don’t forget that the two of them are smarter than 98% of the population (the sort of comment is EXACTLY why I let my Mensa membership lapse)…
She DID marry him for his money – or more precisly for his ablility to make it.
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My husband started his own business a year or so after we got married. He’d been working in a university hospital’s rehab center as a physical therapist assistant and trainer for 14 years. He’d watched numerous colleagues leave and start their own businesses, and prosper. I knew he had the skills to do it and I trusted that he had the discipline. I was right.
Discipline is absolutely essential to successful self-employment.
He was earning more privately, after less than three months, than he’d earned at the university. Now he earns about 3x-4x, depending on his client load in a given year, what he earned there.
He is regularly recruited for jobs in clinics, physical therapy offices, and gyms. That happens when a person is successful and has a good reputation. It doesn’t happen if someone has run his own business into bankruptcy or a malpractice lawsuit.
He has ALWAYS handled his own debt, paid his taxes on time and in full, taken proper care of his licensing and continuing education requirements, and contributed meaningfully to the household expenses. If there is something he wants that I don’t want, he pays for it. (And vice versa. Satellite TV is his expense – even though I watch it too – and the garden is mine – even though he enjoys it too.)
We keep separate checking and savings accounts (though with signing privileges. Our credit lines are in our own names.
We are both high earners now. We have financial discussions about three times a year. Neither of us “checks up on” the other but we do discuss any big expenses coming up and how we’ll handle them.
I am the budgeter, planner, and long-term-goal setter. DH pays our rent & utilities, and I handle long-term savings, investments, & insurance – as well as our entertainment budget and expenses for our mutual sport.
“Partnership” means the partners actually work together to achieve common goals. It doesn’t require merged finances, but it certainly does require agreement on what those common goals ARE.
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I like your comment about discipline. IMHO, one of the problems leaking out of Honey’s story is that if Jake spends what he wants when he wants, then he lacks discipline in managing his personal finances. And if he lacks discipline there, he probably lacks it for running his business as well.
Along those lines, staying disciplined is exactly my problem with my personal finances. I take your comment as well to be a gentle reminder to me to stay the course. Thanks for sharing.
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I’d like to add one more thought: The title of the article is: “When one partner won’t budget”
If they won’t budget, then face it, they’re not really a partner, are they?
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Ha, I misread it. I thought the title of the article was “When One Partner Won’t Budge”. Still appropriate, maybe it should have been “When One Partner Won’t Budge-t”.
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Sorry, not $55/month, $55/paycheck
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$55/paycheck for what? Your joint health insurance? His gas/auto? Those are the only two $55 expenses you’ve mentioned so far…
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$55 per paycheck is for health insurance for both of us (so, $110/month). I didn’t count it here because I never see the money; ditto for our dental insurance (which is $32/paycheck and is amazing). He didn’t want vision insurance so that’s about $2/paycheck just for me.
Sorry for the confusion; the interwebs ate one of my comments and I did a bad job re-posting it.
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Tell him you want to help support his entrepreneurial dreams and get him a book keeper for his business that makes an appointment face-to-face every two weeks. This will make him feel like he’s a big man in charge, not nit-pciked by his wife.
Eventually, with time, especially since some of his personal and business expenses overlap, he should start applying more organization to personal expenses. Or keep hiring someone to do it. Americans can be stubborn about having to do it all themselves, but really, getting someone to support the weak spots in your relationship — whether it’s a maid or a book keeper or a nurse when you’re old — can save your marriage.
Also, consolidate his student loans.
Lastly, let him think these ideas were his 6-12 months later. I know it’s annoying, but I’ve seen how happy my parents have been because my mother lets my father think her ideas were his brainchild. Forego recognition for financial prosperity and peace of mind. It’ll be worth it (even if you will occasionally have to grit your teeth).
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Wow, this is a brilliant idea. I wish I could like it 100x.
Maybe it’s time to start thinking outside the box, Honey. Conversation and patience have failed; maybe you need to try something a little more…psychological.
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“What would you do in my situation, if your goal was to end up like this couple?”
I never coud have married someone with this kind of attitude about money. This isn’t to say I couldn’t have been “in love” with someone like this, but I know it would have been a really hard road to spend my life with a spender type. A road I Would not have chosen to pursue.
There is a lot of talk about separate finances and separate tax returns, but there is only so much you can do when you are *married.* His IRS problems will be your IRS problems, no matter how you file your tax returns. “Married but separate” is a really fine line.
I doubt this comment is useful for Honey Smith, who is already knee deep in this marriage. But this is a good lesson for others on compatibility when considering a life mate. The link to the couple (saver/spender) who “figured it our over time” is great, but I think it would be wiser to “figure it out” before getting married. A marriage like this may not be “impossible,” but I am just not exactly sure that it is worth the effort. The odds are stacked against a “Happily ever after.”
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Dave Ramsey gave some absolutely terrible advice (which, I’m discovering, is the norm for him) a few weeks ago to a woman who wasn’t sure if she wanted to marry a guy who had $200k in student debt. He, of course, told her you can’t put a price tag on love and didn’t want to dissuade her from marrying him. Maybe not, but you can surely put a pricetag on your future financial well-being.
Marrying anyone with $200k in debt, no matter how much they make, is just stupid. I would “date” someone who was that much in the hole, but I’d NEVER, EVER fall in love or consider marrying that person. EVER. I will never commit financial suicide for someone, no matter how much I *think* I am in love with them. And I will never voluntarily put myself in that situation.
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Even if that person accrued the student debt to obtain a degree that allows them to make $200k a year and is paying it off at an easy rate? That kind of absolutism just seems stupid. (And plenty of people who have married young doctors or dentists, for instance, are glad they didn’t follow your advice.)
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That’s true — Fresh out of medical school, people are often 200k in debt, and that’s totally reasonable considering how much they will make yearly. But I think the distinction is whether the individual got 200k in debt thoughtfully. Medical school = thoughtful debt. 200k in debt through a mix of tier 1 (not T14) law school and credit cards? Much less thoughtful in today’s economy.
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Well, honey, there are plenty of gold diggers like yourself who are willing to waive off the $200k debt in promise of future earnings, so you and your ilk can knock yourself out. Me? I’m successful enough, savvy enough and desirable enough where I can choose to not date someone $200k in the hole…regardless of why they are there. Doctors and dentists don’t love anyone better than custodians or bus drivers.
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Wow, way to be condescending, Kelly. I’m not married to anyone, nor “hunting” for it, and I make a perfectly nice living on my own (out of which I can easily make reasonable student loan payments).
But there’s a pretty basic flaw in your logic, which is that someone who has debt payments is entirely unmarriageable due to money, while someone with a lower income is not, despite the fact that the higher income minus the debt payments might still exceed the lower income. You’re the one who made it about money, not me. I mean, don’t get me wrong, you’re welcome to have an obsessive aversion to debt and live by it but pretending that’s a reasonable life strategy for everyone is pretty heinous.
(And as someone who sometime seeks out, say, medical care, I’m really glad many people don’t follow it – I don’t want the only pool of people available to be my doctor the ones who happened to be rich enough to pay for it. I’d rather have a wider pool of talent to choose from.)
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Katie is right. Most future physicians are over $200,000 in debt and have great earning potential. I certainly think that you need to consider the circumstances and the overall financial prudence of the person you are dating. A heavy student debt load doesn’t automatically equal bad with money.
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I wouldn’t have married someone with that kind of debt either, no matter HOW much I loved him.
That said, love does make people do stupid things. We all just have to hope that when reason returns, we have the resources to make use of it.
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Exactly. Like I said, there are plenty of gold diggers who would jump at the opportunity to wed themselves to $200k in debt just so they could tell everyone they married a doctor and life that lifestyle. The world is full of stupid people.
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The gold digger comment is entirely unwarranted.
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There are lots of young professionals out there with this kind of debt. The cost of college, graduate school and professional school has vastly out paced inflation.
I don’t think the problem is so much the debt but the attitude about budgeting, planning and incurring new debt.
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To be fair, there’s a helluva difference between someone graduating from med or law school with $200K in debt, and someone who’s racked up $200K in debt due to crazy spending. And let’s not forget someone who’s racked up $200K in medical bills, too.
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Well, I guess my boyfriend shouldn’t marry me because my mortgage is over $200K, despite the fact that is my only debt, and my housing costs are less than a third of my income.
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I couldn’t agree more with you. There is a reason that all the major religions make you study to be married and go through counseling before you actually sign the papers.
Going into a marriage without being on the same page with regard to finances and writing that off by merely keeping separate finances really just buries the issue for later. It’s much better to get it out and dealt with and find out if you actually want to link yourself to someone.
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Oh, come ON, you can’t think that this BRILLIANT couple would learn anything from those snarky, nasty hateful people that have been following the major world religions for thousands of years, do you!
What could a Rabbi, Iman, or Priest know about human behavior?? Besides, they all get so PREACHY about self control and loving others more than oneself.
(Yes, this IS in “sarcasm” font.)
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Excuse me if I sound repetitive. But he definitely can’t continue this way, as you know. Have you thought about approaching him with his thoughts on certain financial issues. Maybe something like, “hey, I’ve been thinking about buying this and it costs X-amount. what should I do?” Even though you know the answer, you want him to have an open dialogue with you. Or say something like, “I am having a little difficult time in coming up with a plan to save for [insert financial goal], I need your help.” The point is you want him to give you the information you know is needed to reach these goals.
I hope this helps in some way. Good luck! It’s worked for people I’ve counseled. Just a thought!
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I know your husband OK’s your sharing of all this information. How does he react or feel after seeing that the majority of commenters are so appalled by his monetary situation that they advice his wife to steer clear of his financial life? For me, that would be a wake up call, to see that so many people thought my behavior was that destructive. Maybe that sort of awareness would help change his behavior.
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If she shared the number of negative comments- it would likely make him even more defensive of position.
Not a good idea to approach it that way.
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Yes, I think just READING the comments would be overwhelming, and therefore easy to just blow off. But then he doesn’t read the blog, I believe she said. So I would just select some specific comments and print them out….so that he could see. To me, it would be hurtful and yet eye-opening if I realized that so many people thought my choices were dragging my spouse down.
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Honey,
There seems to be a lot of talk about “me” (you) and him, but not much about us.
I understand that joint accounts can be beneficial, but you still need to work TOGETHER to manage the money.
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My comment here probably says more about me but I’ve started to get the feeling that I’m being duped. Have they already made progress (budgets, income, etc) and we’re just hearing the dramatic “before” picture so that the “in progress” updates seem all the more impressive?
I know that’s terrible to suggest (and I’m not typically a conspiracy theorist).
Either way it’s frustrating as a reader….I’m either being set up, or I’m just rubbernecking at a train wreck.
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After reading her comment that this is only her second post and there is more to come I got the same feeling.
..maybe we can just skip to the end.
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That’s what caught my eye as well.
And a few other references like how he’ll be all gung-ho once he comes around. If this is unfolding in real-time, it just seems like that’s a real fantasy based on what’s been written. I think the first “goal” is his acknowledging there’s a problem, which he hasn’t yet.
Dunno — guess we’ll see.
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This is just painful.
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painful yes, but notice the comments these articles generate? I think GRS just got the perfect soap opera (and is probably laughing all the way to the bank). Each week we, the fairly boring, money savvy readers, get a new installment of the awful, yet engrossing details of someone else’s skeletons in the closet of life. Each week we (or is it me?) spend way too much time reading and rereading the sordid details, and then play coach, judge or counselor, depending on how we react to the information. It’s a pretty good deal for GRS cause their traffic goes up, this story line keeps people interested (and coming back for more?) and this website probably reaps the monetary rewards from all the drama. Sad, but seemingly true.
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The problem is, we’re a financially conservative enough bunch that if this is a deliberate rollercoaster, some of us will jump off. Just reading about Honey’s situation makes me anxious.
It’s like those Shopaholic books that were really popular a few years ago – a bunch of my friends LOVED them but they gave me so much dread I couldn’t enjoy them.
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Agree.
All they seemingly wanted out of hiring this person was to generate traffic which is what they have done. Getting rich slowly or raking in the dosh by any means possible?
Unfortunately, hiring Paris Hilton would have done the same job. Lots of traffic but not a good fit for the site. IMO.
I am sick of this car crash so am out. Can’t begin to describe how much this all irritates me.
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Defining your financial relationship with “his way” and “your way” tells me a lot about your situation.
He’s an attorney- so he was taught to negotiate a certain way. Learn to adapt to his style and you’ll find it’s much easier to get more of what you want. Notice I didn’t say everything you want.
My first and only suggestion, if you value your marriage, is to contact me! I’ll work with you and your husband at no cost. This offer is not intended to come across as spammy- it’s a serious offer to help you with your issue.
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Seriously, Adapt To His Style?
I find this very paternalistic. And I also question that you would be the only way of saving them.
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I’ve been where you are in many respects. Couple of thoughts
1) This is a journey and will be a process that evolves over time
2) For NOW, it seems like you need to take over the managing of all the finances. Have him figure out his monthly cash needs and transfer that to a separate account. It should cover gas, food and “blow” money. He spends that money however he pleases, no questions ask. Make it a generous amount in the beginning especially. The rest goes into a joint account that you manage. From what you’ve said, he would be ok with that, right? I know its more complicated with the self employment cash flow, but really, if he’s not interested, just do it. It will likely be some time before he gets interested. I don’t think this is the scenario you will always be in, but at this moment, I think a little clean up and debt reduction is in order.
Good luck!!
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I would say, budget carefully for joint expenses, keep your finances separate, and wait for him to hit bottom and/or run into something that makes it his idea. File taxes separately also.
This is likely to be a long road for you, and you’ll feel broke for a long time– no Dave Ramsey several-years-to-a-quick-fix. But in five years, if you deal with your own issues and refuse to help him get into more debt, you will look back and say, “wow, life is better than it was, even though I’m still worried about money.”
If there is a way for you to take a temporary second job at some point, you probably do want to consider it, but your job may not allow it. However, if you can do it, and present it to your husband as “I’m doing this to get out of my financial hole” he may later come to take you more seriously. And of course you will be better off.
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Writing at this website is a well-paying second job.
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I mean this with no disrespect, but honest curiosity. Is this “writer” just a comment-grab, or a faux writer? These posts are so ludicrous, and her responses so entitled, dismissive, and defensive, that it’s hard to think that she is a writer chosen to give advice.
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Are you kidding? Revenues for blogs are generally driven by traffic, ad clicks, and sharing. GRS picked a winner with this train wreck! Admit it, none of us can look away.
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you nailed it
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Yes, I admitted it a while back! And this post has also caused me to comment more on it alone than in all posts combined in the past few years!!
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I’m going to need some solid proof to believe that “husband” is a member of Mensa.
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I know this is the least of Jake and Honey’s problems, but they’re $200K in debt and he spends $40 a month on drycleaning?
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He is a lawyer and I assume he has to wear suits at work. Is $40 a month expensive to dry clean your suits? Doesn’t sound like that much to me. Seems like a reasonable work required expenditure.
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Which brings up a good point: If this is a business expenditure, then why is it listed as part of his personal finances?
Not only does Honey need to keep her finances separate from Jake’s, but Jake needs to separate his business expenses from his personal ones…
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Dry cleaning and laundering shirts and suits that you can wear in your social life is not tax deductible. If the husband wore a gas station attendants uniform that he could only wear on his job, or lab coats, that would be tax deductible. Does anyone remember that designer Mary McFadden tried to deduct all her hairdresser’s expenses because it added to “her look?” Denied by the Tax Court. Good try, though.
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Sorry, I couldn’t get past the comment about you being the “most frugal girl” he’s ever dated without posting a comment. Honey, you’re not dating him anymore. You’re married to him. And like it or not, you’re both eventually going to have to be on the same page with regard to money issues. Right now it sounds like you’re not even in the same library…
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Well, I’m also the most frugal girl he’s ever married, but that’s a far less meaningful statement when you consider I’m the only girl he’s ever married.
And, hopeful that out of all the girls he ever dated, he married the most frugal one. Again, it may take longer than I would prefer, but the hints are there that he will come around.
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You’re making it sound like you are a frugal genius and you have to twist your husband’s arm to even get him to say the word frugal.
Yet, by your own admission, you spend hundreds of dollars on hair cuts, hair products, massages, sorority and mensa fees and are in a ton of debt.
Did I miss your epiphinany?
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*Epiphany
Thus proving that I am not smarter than 98% of the general populace!!
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Honey,
I’m sorry to hear you say, “I refuse to become The Girl Who Only Says No or The Girl Who Only Talks About Money, because that will only poison the well for every aspect of our relationship, not just our finances.”
How can openly communicating and saying NO to things you CANNOT afford poison your relationship? I have a feeling a year from now you will realize just the opposite.
My husband and I are CONSTANTLY talking about money and it’s the reason we’ve been able to live relatively debt-free (our mortgage being our debt.)
Best of luck.
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I guess hindsight is 20/20, but I seriously would have known more about his money attitudes (and how much they diverge from yours) before I would have married someone. It is true that when my husband and I had gotten married, neither had made very much (and my husband still doesn’t) but bottom line we were both in agreement about living modestly, not accumulating debt, and other deal-breaking differences.
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Unfortunately, unless you two get some outside intervention on your finances, you are going to become “the girl who always says no” and he is going to become “the man who resents the girl who always says no and spends ‘my’ money whichever way I want”.
Hopefully, you are in a state where you will not be legally responsible for his inevitable tax delinquency…
The handwriting is on the wall, I fear…
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I think Honey is real. Were those conspiracy theory comments serious? I can see how you would come up with it — there is no picture/bio posted of her on the staff page. But, I still think GRS wouldn’t make up a writer.. it’s a grassroots blog with a lot of integrity.
Honey, I know this blog is about your personal finance journey to success, but I wonder if you could someday post about your past choices. How did you decide to pursue a PhD, and how did your husband decide to pursue the JD? And if you don’t mind sharing, which field exactly is your PhD in? Did you go to a school that paid your tuition and offered you a stipend, or did you have to pay your way? Is there anything you would have done differently in making those decisions? Do you still feel that your degrees will someday maximize your earning potential in a field you love? Any advice to current undergraduate students pursuing law school or humanities grad school?
Thanks!
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That’s my very next post, Maddie!
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My husband has refused to have a budget for our 20 years of marriage. I’m a psychologist and finally figured out that he equates budgeting with financial failure. We are completely debt-free, so budgeting isn’t essential if your income is adequate and you don’t spend foolishly. I would prefer a budget, but his approach obviously works, too. One concern I have is that you be willing to refrain from dictating on money issues. I always have a say, but if I had insisted or called the shots, I am certain we would be divorced–something that can really damage your finances. Best wishes.
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I have no new advice to offer aside from, DON’T GET PREGNANT.
And I mean that as seriously and as politely as humanly possible.
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THIS!!!!!!! x 100.
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A child in this relationship would likely be the fast track to single motherhood for Honey PLUS half of hubby’s debts PLUS child care cost PLUS hubby not paying child support…..
and the current situation will look like Nirvana by comparison!
Honey, you married this man because??????
PLEASE keep an innocent life out of this trainwreck.
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I disagree. From what I can gather Honey is already in her thirties. If they wait until they are out of debt, she will have lost her window to have biological children or will have to spend lots of money on fertility treatments. Adoption is also horribly expensive. Heck, the rate they are going, she will be in menopause before they get out of debt.
While children are expensive, they can also be a wake up call that leads you to really change your spending. Now that we have kids I am amazed at the frivolous things we spent money on before.
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they don’t necessarily have to wait until they are out of debt, but they need to get jake’s business on stable footing (increased income and the tax mess taken care of), get the household income up, get their expenses way down, and make some progress toward reducing that debt load.
kids are expensive – even just adding $1000 a month to their monthly spending, which is sort of middle-of-the-road for a good daycare, would at this point be financially catastrophic. that doesn’t even begin to contemplate costs for pre-natal care, delivery costs, any loss of income while honey is on maternity leave and jake isn’t working. once the kid arrives, it needs to be fed, diapered, and clothed, and the costs will increase as the kid gets older.
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Can we dump Honey and bring back the ten wedding showers guy? I know he was no Mensan, but…
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He is looking better and better!!
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Hahahahaha this is the comment of the day
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Honey,
If you 2 were my daughter and son-in-law I would literally be stroking out over your finances and BOTH of your attitudes. Your husband is out of control and horrifically irresponsible and you make excuses for him every step of the way. I’d give some advice, but it’s already all been given to you and I don’t think you’ll follow any of it. I wish you would otherwise you guys are just a train wreck waiting to happen.
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But he’s changing! The signs are there! Honey says so. And she’s smarter than you, since she’s in Mensa, so she must be right. Empirical evidence.
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Oh Meaghan, what a great comment!! I’m laughing myself sick.
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If your husband had a hypothetical child who wanted to start a business, would his advice be: “This assumes that I actually have a budget…which I do not. I just make however much money I happen to make and pay whatever bills happen to fall due. Perhaps it’s not the best system, but it’s worked well so far.”
This is bad business, and business is personal. Jake is in the business of living Jakes life; this involves having a wife and an independent business (and other things, like satellite television). If he wants to make sure he can have his life, like business men watch out for their business interests, he’ll have to start budgeting in his personal life like any other good bookeeper.
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I’m going to skip the poo-flinging fest altogether and just offer a few constructive and relationship-affirming suggestions (although I’ll say I was tempted to suggest you give him a boot to the head).
First, your husband needs to understand that a high income does not mean high net worth. He probably feels under pressure to “look successful” in order to prosper in his business. For a clarification on that subject, because awareness is the first step to any kind of change, you two can read together “The Millionaire Next Door”. If he refuses, then please give him another boot to the head.
Second, I suggest you read the great Switch: How to Change Things When Change is Hard. I love that book in that it shows you a workable path to create change in any situation.
Third, though this should have been said first, but I wanted to get into the money and change first, take your husband to counseling even if you have to drag him kicking and screaming, because money issues aside your relationship looks like an overheated engine that’s burned up all the oil and is about to melt.
If nothing happens then please give him a boot to the head.
(you can click on each link, they are all different and all hilarious)
Best wishes– really! I hope you two can work it out. You really need help. and a crowd of strangers ganging up on you on the internet isn’t going to do it. CALL A THERAPIST FIRST THING TOMORROW MORNING. Actually, call right now! Even if you need to pay with a credit card. This is a mental health emergency. I can’t imagine your level of stress, must be off the charts.
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Agree!!! I love the “Millionaire” series of books. It really puts things in perspective that the real-life “Joneses” probably spend a lot less (on just about everything) than we “think” they spend a ton on. It was a real eye-opening set of books.
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GRS gods, what the.. “marked for moderation”? Come on! I’m trying to put in some good links there!!
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Haha. Love it. Eventually, Nerdo mio, you may have access to the comment approval functionality here at GRS. When that happens, you can circumvent the moderation that occurs when you put in too many links.
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Can I just say I LOVE LOVE LOVE El Nerdo!
No real advice or admonishments for Honey… she’s had 230 before I got her so I’ll just say it one more time… I LOVE EL NERDO!
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What if you make it a bet or a game? He follows your budget for 1 month (or 2 or 3) and then you both review the difference. Maybe he needs a more tangible frame of reference for the money he could be saving. Does he have a favorite bottle of scotch? If you follow this budget you save X bottles of scotch. Of course ideally you won’t be buying X bottles of scotch with the extra cash, but paying down debt.
I the meantime, yes keep finances separate. Possibly look into filing taxes separately as well. I know you commented on why you file jointly, but it doesn’t seem like the best choice until your financial goals are more aligned.
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I actually really like this piece of advice – it’s creative and applicable – so I’m not trying to demean it at all… But, how scary is this? He’s a grown-up, an attorney with people’s LIVES in his hands, and several people have suggested that Honey resort to cute little games in order to help him manage his finances and be a responsible adult. He’s not Jane and Michael tricked in cleaning the nursery by Mary Poppins. He’s a grown-up, and should be able to act like one based simply on the very real consequences that he’s facing if he doesn’t get his act together.
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Just make more money already – both of you. All the rest about cutting expenses is just noise.
Your relationship will be fine if you both pull up your bootstraps. Right now it’s stressful.
Realistically, your husband wasn’t in the financial position to be opening up his own shop with that much debt in hand – and I assume no savings (and what sounds like flaky partners). I did it myself without the debts and it’s tough to get things off the ground in the first few years. In hindsight, I wouldn’t have done it – or not at that time.
I articled at a CA firm and put the billable hours in and went through the stress of that – so I get that he got burnt out. It’s a freaking inhumane system. There’s also the over-reaction to being sick of depriving yourself through so many years of school and not being able to spend anything (I was lucky enough to not have credit cards at least.) I would give it a year or two if I were him and if his income hasn’t increased appreciably (ie. doubled), I’d re-examine my work options.
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Honey, it is quite likely that your husband will never make the money you and he hope and expect he will – the entire market for lawyers has changed in this country. It seems like you are banking on big returns from his business saving the both of you. A law degree doesn’t guarantee the income it once did. I hope that what you are expecting happens for your sake but it isn’t wise to count on it.
I see two “relationship affirming” options for you:
1) Decide what you can pay towards household expenses, pay that and channel the rest of your energy into paying off your own debt and increasing your income. Don’t mention budgets, saving money or the word “no” to him. Be the Girl Who Lives in Fantasyland with Her Man.
Or
2) Accept that the two of you will always be in debt and in periodic financial crisis for the rest of your life but decide that you love him and want to avoid upsetting him enough to just deal with this.
Those are the only choices I see that seem to mesh with your situation and all the limits on what you will consider you have placed upon the readers you are asking for advice.
I truly don’t mean to be snarky but, if your posts and responses to comments here are real, you are so incredibly entitled it just drips from your writing. I know you likely will read this as anonymous online meanness but it isn’t. Please consider whether the many negative responses you are getting here might not have some truths you can use to reevaluate your life.
And I have to congratulate GRS on finding someone always guaranteed to generate comments. I’d like to see a post on how much money GRS makes from this craziness versus a nice reasonable Donna Freedman post.
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aah, Donna Freedman.. I love her posts, they are serious, down to earth, helpful and funny.
She walks the walk and talks the talk… she even ate Ice Cream from a garbage can.. I loved that post! hysterical!
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“And I have to congratulate GRS on finding someone always guaranteed to generate comments.”
^^this
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This commentor gets it so correct with the reference to entitlement. Honey and her husband ooze with entitlement, privilege and delusion. I actually could afford regular massages, and I wouldn’t dream of it because I don’t feel entitled to that level of luxury. I’d be horrified not to plan properly for my tax obligations and would never dream of prioritizing my frivolous spending over that. I became a member of MENSA but never again chose to pay the annual dues because I didn’t need a douchy membership to prove my smarts or bolster my self confidence. They are even delusional and entitled regarding references to jobs. Here’s a hint: earning $90K means you didn’t work at “big law.” “Big law” refers to a specific set of large national and international law firms, and even in smaller markets, their lowest starting salaries are $160K. In bigger markets, starting salaries are $160-180K.
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What is going on here?!?
Yesterday we had a snake oil pitch of marketing to marketers. Today we have a painful look at the minutia of a spendthrift’s budget.
Rein it in man. Get this blog back on track!!!
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If I were in your shoes, I’d start by trying to help my husband become less selfish. I understand that both of you care about animal rights issues. I’d hope that he aims to become someone who uses his money and power to help animals, not just to selfishly fund every indulgence he wants without any planning or budget. And while giving $10 per month to the Humane Society is better than $0, it’s really quite pathetic. Someone in his situation could afford to give a lot more if he planned better and spent less on himself. As he knows, animals suffer more than we humans can even imagine. They need so much more from him than he’s giving. I loved the feeling I got when I wrote my first 4-figure checks to animal organizations. Maybe he’ll be motivated to do better with his money so he can help someone other than himself. Go watch some videos on PETA’s website or the Humane Society’s website. If watching the horrors that animals endure on the path to being eaten and killed by people or tested on or whatever else doesn’t motivate him to be less selfish so he can do more to help the animals, I don’t know what will.
If I were you, I’d also put my foot down and start winning some of the disagreements about money. Every time you don’t change the status quo, he essentially gets his way at your expense and at the expense of your family’s financial future. Why does every expense (like cable) that you object to get to remain in the budget? Either withdraw your half of the funding for everything you don’t agree to, or continue to push the point until you he compromises to your point of view at least half the time.
And I wouldn’t entertain or enable his financial irresponsibility. Related to your last post, you have veto power regarding buying a home. Don’t go look at house, don’t sign any financial documents, don’t go to a mortgage broker or bank with him. (Also, just like you wouldn’t want someone to waste his time with a free legal consultation if the person wasn’t serious about hiring a lawyer, don’t waste the time of the real estate agent or the mortgage brokers.)
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Maybe I’m being overly optomistic, but I think Jake is already making positive changes toward being more money wise. He allowed you to post this. More importantly, he allowed you to look at the numbers to calculate his yearly and monthly expenses. When you mentioned that based on your numbers he was short on taxes, he didn’t get mad, he was thankful that you brought it to his attention. And apparently he is no longer upset about the idea of you opting out of cable. All of this and you are on what? Your 4th post? Rome wasn’t built in a day and you are not going to change his mindset in a day. Personally, I see hope.
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Please tell me this isn’t a real post. I find it difficult to tolerate people who feel the need to project their accomplishments for the sake of stroking their own egos as I find those types to be generally very shallow. I’ve averaged about a quarter of a million dollars the last three years and I drive a 10 year old car and none of my friends know it. I donate to charities regularly and all my nieces and nephews will get to go to the college of their choice without concern for cost. All that money you’re spending on making sure other people know you have money is unfortunate and meaningless in the long run.
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Another idea for motivating your ridiculous husband: the health and well-being of your animals. If (rather, WHEN) your pets have a major health crisis, you and your animals are SCREWED due to the financial irresponsibility and selfishness of you and your husband.
Among my pets, I’ve dealt with cancer, a chronic intestinal disease, an oral disease, and other major health issue. Each event has cost me $1000-4000 in veterinary bills. If I wasn’t able to pay, my pets would have died early or suffered immensely.
Do you and your husband really want to be responsible for having to euthanize your pet because you can’t afford vet bills for a severe illness/disease? Do you want your pets to suffer because you can’t afford routine care or other healthcare?
Are your husband’s many indulgences on his own desires (whatever he feels like eating in a restaurant or grocery store, cable, and so many other things) really worth not being in a financial position to care for your animals? And are those things really worth not having more disposable income to help other animals that are in desperate need?
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Yes, we are very concerned about our animals. As you can see, I had budgeted $2300 in vet expenses per year because that’s what we spent last year. We know we can expect those expenses to go up – the cats are 14 and 15, the dog is at least 10 (who knows, we found her abandoned in a parking lot and she was so neglected the vet we took her to told us not to even try and find her previous owner).
We used to have a third cat who was diabetic. Between insulin, needles, and all the secondary medical issues common with diabetes (she had to have almost all her teeth pulled, was forever getting infections of one sort or another, and used three times the litter of a normal cat) we have been there. I think I mentioned, besides my wedding the only time I’ve added any credit card debt in the last 4 years was the week she died, which cost about $2500.
Pets are probably the big non-negotiable in our budget. If they got sick, we’d cut pretty much everything to take care of them.
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You missed my point. You say you’d “cut out pretty much everything” IF your animals got sick. They ARE going to get sick (all living things do), so the point is to live your financial life NOW in a manner that will allow you to provide for them. Massages, cable, fancy food and other crap shouldn’t trump being able to care for your animals when they need something.
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A few months ago I recall an article on this site about catching an STD (Sexually Transmitted Debt).
If he won’t undertake any sort of budgetting for you, then you are best to keep all your finances separate.
Ask him what he plans to do if he gets an IRS audit.
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As some people have mentioned, there are positive signs to your relationship:
1) Jake is open about his finances with you (including access to mint.com)
2) Jake is open to having both of your finances aired in a very public venue
3) Jake had been paying down his consumer debt, at least prior to starting his business.
That being said, more things need to happen.
1) Separate the business finances from the personal finances, and get a good accountant to get the business’ finances in order.
2) If Financial Peace University isn’t for the atheist in Jake, try a different (but similar) program.
3) Get Jake to talk about his goals for his life. House? Travel? Retirement? Just a general savings account that goes up every month? Then the two of you come up with a plan to make those dreams happen. Having a more concrete goal rather than something nebulous like “getting out of debt” might be the incentive he needs to alter his behavior.
4) The two of you need some kind of counseling/mediator to help you navigate some of the issues you’ve brought up (including Jake’s family’s troubled history with money).
5) Give each of y’all an allowance (though with the amount of debt you have, it will be small). Jake needs to feel the freedom of being able to spend money, or he won’t keep to any kind of financial plan. But the financial plan will place limits on his free spending, to put y’all on a more financially sound track.
Lastly, model financially prudent behavior. I am the more financially conservative partner in our marriage, but my husband has become more so because he doesn’t want to drag “the team” down. He wants to be an asset rather than a liability. Even though we never had any kind of a conversation like that, he saw my good financial habits and knew if he continued like he had been, that he would have been dragging us down. His own sense of responsibility kicked in without me having to say or do anything. I suspect that Jake might end up feeling the same way.
Good luck to the two of you!
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Now that I’ve re-read Honey’s article and her responses to several great pieces of advice, I think this entire article is a hoax – simply designed to send fiscally responsible people off their rockers. I’m not buying it. You’d never find someone(s) this irresponsible blogging on a pf site.
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I’m inclined to believe her story’s a hoax as well but that’s because I don’t want to believe she’s that obtuse.
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I don’t think this is a real article or writer as well. Nearly every response she has just creates more controversy. Mensa? Really?
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I’m a little bothered by how this prolonged critique of Honey’s decisions has for some people devolved into an overall critique of getting a Ph.D. AnnW’s comment about it being somehow self-indulgent is a particularly striking example of this.
It is common knowledge that one should not go into debt to get a humanities Ph.D. Even Honey herself is painfully aware of this now that she is finished and has such debt to pay back.
How, though, is it self-indulgent or just a vanity project? I can tell you that if this were the only valid reason to get those letters after your name, most people would quit way before the long and arduous dissertation was over.
Most people get a Ph.D., at least in the humanities, because they either love to teach college students OR they are passionate about the subject matter. How is this self-indulgent? And even the results are far from self-indulgent. Even though I didn’t end up becoming a professor, I produced a 300+ page history book on an important group of people in an important city who lived 200 years ago. Despite the utilitarian view of many, this knowledge does matter. The past does matter.
So I managed to spend ten years of my life researching something that is important. While I have many regrets about my education, that is not one of them. It was not a vanity project. The school benefited by having another teaching assistant and the added cache of being able to call themselves a research institution. Graduate students do that for a university. I was able to delve into a subject matter not known by many. In fact, I produced the first book on the subject in English.
The Ph.D. Honey has is not the problem here. It’s the fact that she went into debt to get it.
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Agreed, the Ph.D. is not an issue. Rather, it would seem the job she has taken with that doctorate. I understand she’s sticking around until she’s fully vested in the retirement plan, but I think she should be contacting her superiors and communicating that if there’s no upward momentum in position/salary, she will be looking elsewhere. Especially since her irregular income sources listed are going to dry up. She can only sell a finite amount of stuff and she already stated her father’s gifts are likely at an end.
In any case, her husband’s business needs to get their books straightened up with an accountant. His gross income barely covers his outflow, even before taxes are involved.
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I don’t think Honey’s PhD or even the debt she took on to get the PhD is the problem. I think Honey’s problem is that she thinks she’s better than the rest of us, and she feels like none of our advice is good enough.
Nope, can’t do that, because she really needs her massage/Mensa/widget. Nope, can’t take advice from anyone who believes in God because he must be an idiot. Can’t, can’t, can’t.
Never mind that a lot of us have very little to no debt, savings, and pay our taxes on time–we’re not worthy of Honey.
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I’d hesitate to say she’s shot down everything the commenters have offered. Looking back over the comments she’s noted that Mensa, AAA, sorority fees, hair care and a few other things could be cut. After the post denoting her efforts to change comes through, then we’ll have the final say on whether this is a useful venue for her story, or just yanking our chains.
I’ll be certainly looking at that gift fund. $2000 of found money that could be appropriated and advanced against tiny balances to free up cash flow. Anyone who is offended by lack of gifts that can’t understand a tough economy and new business venture isn’t a friend I’d want.
That said, being at the start of my debt recovery journey ($45k student, $5k CC, $57k income, ink still drying on my BS), I find her story useful in examining both her situation and my own. It certainly encourages me to advance my snowball process, even with 10 year notes instead of their 30.
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I agree – getting a PhD isn’t frivolous. It’s hard, hard work! My boyfriend is in a doctorate program, and not only does he have to do his own research but he also has to teach each semester. Luckily, he isn’t going into debt as he receives a small stipend from the his university. But he is not self-indulgent or entitled. Teaching at the college level is something he’s wanted to do since he was a teenager (or maybe younger), he enjoys teaching, and he loves learning. And getting a PhD is the only way he’ll be able to have a shot at becoming a professor.
Now, was getting a PhD a good idea for Honey? Maybe, maybe not… I’ll wait until I read more about her decision. But, even if it was a bad financial decision I see no reason to crucify her for it. We all make mistakes. What matters is what we do to correct them, and right now Honey is working on that. Maybe not as quickly as some of you would like, as if overnight someone could transform their entire way of life and their spouse’s way of life into the Debt Snowball Extravaganza, but she’s trying. And she’s done something I never would have done when I was paying off my credit card debt – gone public.
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People have jumped on Honey enough about the problem this is for her relationship, and her husband’s immaturity, so I won’t add to that chorus. I want to chip in with the suggestions I have from my own experience:
1. Your husband’s business needs to hire a PT accountant. An accounting firm should be help to help out his business for a few hundred dollars a month. While this might seem counter-intuitive (it costs money), an accountant will a) separate his business expenses from his personal expenses, b) pay his taxes, and c) give him advice that he will hopefully take because it comes from a neutral source.
2. You may want to think about adopting a his-mine-ours financial system. Make a “household” budget and then tell him what his portion of it is. That way you will at least have control of the joint expense (rent, utilities, etc.) and won’t have to worry about divvying them up or whether he’s paid them or not. And then if THAT needs to go up or down, you can make the necessary adjustments without starting an argument (“Our household budget needs to go up by $14”) and you can include things like saving for an emergency fund or a house in that budget. It sounds like he will always spend as much as he has.
Good luck. I agree with everyone else that you’re doomed if you don’t make changes, but hopefully this process will make one or both of you see the light.
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Accountant with years of experience in the legal industry here. Honey’s husband’s attitude toward budgeting and expenses screams “trust account irregularities” to me. I don’t mean to imply that he has done something unethical, but his attitude is often shared by those who start skimming clients’ funds. (Short a little month? Well, let’s grab a few hundred dollars from the trust account, no one will notice …)
Honey – I don’t know if that’s enough to shake some sense into your husband – but maybe if he knew that his attitude could have a detrimental effect on his professional reputation, he might be more interested in changing.
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I appreciate the concern, Sarah, but his firm’s trust account is fully intact and Jake considers it inviolable. He only pays himself for work that his clients have been billed (and have paid the bill). In addition, all the firm’s expenses are paid before he disburses any money to himself.
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You missed my point because I was unclear. It’s not about what he’s actually doing with the trust account. It’s about the *perception* of what might be going on with the firm’s finances. He might have the tightest accounting of any attorney out there — although I know that’s not the case based on your prior comments re: taxes and the former partner — but his comments sound more like someone who plays fast and loose, and that’s what other attorneys will take notice of. I think it’s great for you guys to be open about your personal situation, but because his attitude is often associated with people with loose ethics in his industry, he risks his professional reputation. In accounting/auditing, we are taught that the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as impropriety itself.
What I am saying is that if he values his professional reputation, he should get his personal finances in order.
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oh gosh! forgive me for not reading through all 275 comments
i just wanted to add my two cents- sort out those tax payments immediately!!!!
i’ve had a similar path- i worked a normal job for a while then went freelance (~ age 25, i’m 29 now); i “knew” in the back of my head i “should” save for taxes, but the next april seemed so far away, and there were so many cool things to buy. well, somehow april did come around, and my CPA told me to sit down cause i owed 11k in taxes. then the economy tanked (my pre-recession salary was 40-60k, post has been 5-20k), i had very little income and one big fat tax bill (plus about 8K in living expenses on my credit card, so 19K total).
i’ve been paying that off ever since- hoping to have it paid off next year. i’ve been living like a pauper, no new clothes, no haircuts, my shoes are falling apart, but i’m so close to getting it paid off i’d rather live like a hobo for another year than prolong the pain.
in any case, please, please, BE WARY OF THOSE FREELANCE TAXES!!!!!!!
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Dude, what are your GOALS? What are you trying to accomplish with your money? Frankly, you and your husband could live your whole lives and die with that giant debt load – people do all the time. What is the thing you want to have or do that absolutely, positively, requires more money or less debt? I think the starting point here, that we haven’t heard about, is for you and hubby to talk seriously and repeatedly about your deep desires. One type of desire is avoiding bad: for example, “I want to stay in the house, not move into a cardboard box, if you die suddenly.” The other type of desire is drawing toward good: “I want to take a month to hike the Bohusleden in Sweden.” Both are followed by the question: what has to be true about our finances for this desire to become reality? So figure out a few desires you both can AGREE on and start from there.
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