Reader Story: Finding Hope In The Bleakest Of Situations
Published on - September 9th, 2012 (by J.D. Roth) This guest post from Sam is part of the “reader stories” feature at Get Rich Slowly. Sam writes at Financial Samurai and is one of the esteemed colleagues with whom I’m exchanging ideas this weekend at the second annual Financial Blogger Conference. Some reader stories contain general advice; others are examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success or failure. These stories feature folks with all levels of financial maturity and income. Want submit your own reader story? Here’s how.
At the age of 35, I engineered my layoff. For 13 years after college, I spent on average 50-60 hours a week working in finance. I would get in at 5:25am and often stay until 7:30pm just so I could partake in the free cafeteria buffet my company provided. Living in New York City for two years hardened my determination but softened my belly.
I enjoyed the ride immensely, even after the dotcom collapse in 2000. Every one of us thought we were brilliant traders until the tide went out. At least my friends and I were poor then, and didn’t have much to lose. The economy and the markets recovered from 2003 to 2007, but then the housing bubble began to burst in 2006, leading to the financial crisis of 2008-2010.
In 2009, I lost about one third of my net worth, despite having diversified like crazy. I had 35% of my net worth in 4-4.5% yielding long-term CDs, 35% of my net worth in stocks, and another 30% of my net worth in real estate which consisted of my primary home and two rentals. Oops! With real estate and the stock market taking a beating, I started to curse the world. How could I do everything right and still lose so much money? I kept asking myself. I was depressed that after all those years of saving and investing, I could lose so much in so little of time.
The answer, as it turns out, is that I didn’t do everything right. If I did everything right, I would have sold all my stocks and property at the end of 2007 and went 100% cash. If I was super smart, I would have not only sold everything, but shorted everything via electronic traded funds as well! Alas, I didn’t have the foresight to see how absolutely miserable things would get.
Doing Something Right
Ironically, one of the things I did do to cope with the pain of losing hundreds of thousands of dollars was start Financial Samurai, my personal finance blog, in the summer of 2009. I began to write to extinguish the mental anguish that I had been experiencing. I wanted to connect with other depressed souls who had saved aggressively and invested “wisely” all their lives, only to see their hard work VANISH in mere weeks.
I was angry at the government for taxing us to death, and bailing out big businesses. I was angry at politicians for abusing their power and saying one thing while doing another. I hated how small late payments destroyed credit scores given corporations had no more leniency since they were worried about their own survival. For example, my credit score got crushed by 100 points because I didn’t pay a $8 bill to my utility company that my tenants were supposed to pay! Most of all, I was disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think stocks and property would continue to rise in a steady fashion forever.
Writing an online journal helped me cope, and participating in blogs such as Get Rich Slowly (commenter since 2008) helped me realize that I was not alone. With friends losing their jobs left and right, I found a community of the best personal finance blogs on the web whom I could relate to, and trade ideas with. I slowly began to forget about the financial losses and focus on the things that I could control, which was my own outlook on life. Pretty soon, I began to make friends online and the economy started to recover once again.
The economic crisis of 2008-2010 in retrospect, turned out to be one of the biggest blessings in disguise!
A Changed Man
Before 2008, I planned on buying as many rental properties as possible. After all, property had been going up every year for a decade before, and money is just a medium of exchange. I wanted to own hard assets and not just keep money tucked away in a bank account that I’d never see!
I still feel that over the long term, property is a wonderful asset class whose true value is the cash flow generated from rent, or the rent you don’t have you pay once you pay off your mortgage. Furthermore, property can be passed down from generation after generation and always provides a place for people to live. With the asset class still down, and homeowners able to refinance their mortgages at record low levels, I should be buying more property.
That said, I’m all about simplifying life now. I no longer have the patience to fix something when broken. Having to host an open house and pray that my tenant won’t be a psycho killer isn’t on top of my priority list. Finally, I abhor paying the ever rising property taxes of San Francisco when we get so little in return.
The life of a landlord is no cherry pie. Even if I could hire a property manager to do all the work for 10% of profits, it would still take too long for the returns to be deemed worth it. I don’t want to lock up hoards of capital in an asset that could burn to the ground. Instead, I want to focus on doing work with low overhead, and more importantly, low maintenance.
I never sought to make money from Financial Samurai, just like how JD never thought he’d be able to sell his site and become financially independent from GRS five years after inception. My personal finance blog was there to connect with others and heal my own soul. Losing a third of my net worth literally meant losing about 3-4 years worth of living expenses since I had about 9-12 years of living expenses saved up by then!
But, by the time 2011 came, my readership had grown to over 100,000 pageviews a month, and I was actually starting to make a decent minimum wage income online! The stock market rallied over 100% from its lows, and we are finally seeing signs of strength in the real estate market with rents skyrocketing, at least here in San Francisco.
The Happiness Change
Whenever you start gaining momentum, do whatever you can to keep the ball rolling. Get out of your own way if you have to and protect yourself from yourself. Just don’t kill your progress! I started to believe in 2010, after saving over 50% of my after tax income for 11 consecutive years after college that maybe, just maybe I could retire early and do whatever I want.
With this belief, I began to plan my escape by:
Step 1: Optimizing the budget framework and see where I could save money and still be happy.
Step 2: Raising my after-tax savings rate to 70% from 50% to get myself used to living on less.
Sept 3: Diversifying my assets so that in case the world goes back into a recession, I wouldn’t lose as much.
Step 4: Increasing my commitment to writing online by promising to produce at least three articles a week.
Step 5: Figuring out how to engineer my layoff so that I could leave my job of 10+ years with something in my pocket.
In just under two years, I finally took the leap of faith and announced my retirement in early July, 2012!
Retirement Means Different Things to Everyone
My definition of retirement is doing what I want, when I want, and not worrying about money. Retirement means financial independence. I don’t think I will ever completely stop worrying about money, but I know I can now come and go as I please and report to no one. I didn’t hate my job, I just didn’t love it like I once did for the first 5-10 years after college. After a while, everything gets a little stale, and I believe it is healthy to do something new.
In “retirement,” I plan to see more of the world, spend more time with my parents and sister, and discover what it is I truly am here on this Earth to do. I believe all of us have the ability to do a multitude of things and encore careers are the norm. It’s just that many of us don’t try because we get comfortable in our ways. I was way too comfortable at my corporate job and was no longer challenged. I knew I had to do something new in fairness to my company, and ultimately to myself.
One can’t help feel the entrepreneurial spirit living here in San Francisco. With Twitter, Dropbox, Airbnb, Quora and a host of other startups all clustered in this region, it’s hard not to want to join or create a startup yourself! I’m going to see if there’s a startup company that might be a good fit for me to join. In addition, I plan to write more, building my online consulting practice, and write more books.
Whether I succeed or fail is secondary to my goal of just trying. I didn’t want to look back on my life and regret not having tried doing something new, or building something on my own. There’s a lifetime to make money, but there are only so many shots one can take before the chamber runs out.
Without the financial crisis, I would never have started Financial Samurai. Without Financial Samurai, I would never have challenged myself to learn about the online world. Without ever learning about the online world, I would never have had the guts to engineer my layoff at the age of 35 and be free.
There’s always hope in the worst situations. We just need to recognize opportunities when they arise. It’s easy to just give up and curse the world for our misfortunes. The pain of losing so much money, and ultimately time was almost unbearable in 2009. But everything comes back and often times even better than before!
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Funny about Money runs an editing business called The Copy Editor’s Desk. http://www.thecopyeditorsdesk.com/ She would be a great hire to clean up inadvertent grammatical errors that jar the reader, among other editing tasks. And I bet she would like doing so better than she likes adjuncting as her side-job.
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Sometimes the comments at GRS are valuable – and sometimes they are not. This is a finance blog. I read the comments for their finance content. Do you really think people are interested in reading your thoughts on the grammar errors?
I could be wrong – maybe people are interested. Did you write that comment for the GRS audience?
You pay nothing to visit this site. If you truly want to help – send JD or the writer an email message offering whatever help. Don’t be the first commenter and not comment on the actual content.
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I have written to GRS a couple of times in the past about an error messages I keep getting. No one has ever responded. I know that the folks at GRS are busy, but the problem still hasn’t been addressed several months later.
I agree that these issues are best handled in a less public forum, but I can’t fault Nicole for speaking up when it seems GRS staff respond to comments but not emails.
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Elizabeth, what error message do you keep getting?
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@J.D. — thanks for the response! This is the message I keep getting:
Internal Server Error – Read
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Reference #3.55f4f748.1347233165.3fae5b3
It happens anytime I try to comment using Safari, and sometimes using Firefox. I access GRS via different devices so I don’t think it’s my computer.
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Yes, people care. It takes us out of the article – it’s jarring, as Nicole said. I think her comment is very useful. There are comments complaining about typo’s and grammatical errors on here all the time, and either no one from the site answers, or other commenters jump on the one who pointed out the mistake.
Apparently some people don’t notice the errors, and I guess it would be annoying to read a comment about something you don’t notice. But the frustration that you feel about a comment on grammar is the same frustration some of us feel reading “I could lose so much in so little of time.”
As someone who’s both commented about errors (and then received very negative comment-replies) and emailed about them (but did it so often I felt like I was working for free), I think Nicole’s non-pushy, non-accusatory, gently-worded suggestion is a good one.
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Is this a good time to mention that the Reader Story pitch itself says, “Want submit your own reader story?”
That has been bugging me for a while.
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Always make me laugh when North Americans say they are being “taxed to death”. Try living in Europe! Sales tax in the UK is currently 20%, and income tax and national insurance take as much as 40% out of your paycheck. But I enjoy having access to quality healthcare without worrying about bankruptsy.
I felt the title of the article was misleading. “The bleakest of sitations”? Really? Yes, losing 1/3rd of your net worth is pretty bad, but you admitted that you still had years of living expenses saved up, and a job. It’s not like you were ill, uninsured, and living in your car.
That said, congrats on your financial stability and independence and especially being able to retire so young. It is an achievement and you obviously have worked hard.
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Agreed. Calling these the “the bleakest of situations” is just plain insensitive to the many, many people who’ve lost more, or who are starting with less. A little empathy for the typical GRS reader goes a long way.
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I’m not sure if it’s optimism, or whether we have short memories, but the 2008-2010 time period was VERY bleak in my mind for a lot of people.
I’m describing the economic landscape with my title, and the way my mind was churning at the time.
Yes, even in this scenario, I realize compared to much of the world, things are not that bad. An that is what I discovered as I wrote in my post as I decided to focus on what I can control.
Just being born in the US puts us in the top percentiles of wealth. Everything is relative.
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I understand different philosophical stances on taxation, but the idea that Americans are suffering most of their woes due to high taxes is silly IMO. Tax rates are at their lowest since the 50s (yes, even for the middle class). Likewise, pretty much all consumer goods are considerably cheaper now than they were back in Ye Goode Olde Days. The problem is that wages have stagnated or dropped, at the same time that three essential categories of spending (housing/education/health care) have risen faster than the rate of inflation (much faster).
ETA: there are two of us Tracys posting. I think the other one might be new to the blog?
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Replying to myself…looks like I’m the newer one LOL. I’ll come up with a different handle for any future posts. The Other Tracy or something like that.
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Hi Tracy! I’ve been around for awhile but don’t post a lot. You are welcome to post as Tracy – I’ll be tracylee from now on.
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I really liked reading this side of the story from Sam. I’ve been reading his blog for a while but this is the first time I’ve seen it all in one place and saw the whole story. What he has done is amazing and I only hope I can be anything like it one day with my blog.
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Does anybody else get the feeling that some commenters are just trying to get their blog name out there?
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Ive also followed Sam’s writing. I must say this is a very encouraging post. Being able to read your story like this. You are only 5 years older then me and you are retired, how crazy is that!
Going through hard times in life always seems to have a point to it. I’m currently going through some hard times now.. guess I have something to look forward to. I’ll see what good comes out of it! Life takes hard work, setting goals and gaining knowledge and wisdom from people like Sam or JD.
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Congratulations Sam for retiring so early! I have recently started reading your blog and enjoy it greatly. You have a similar vision to mine about financial independence and retirement. Keeping the motivation and never giving up is very important, although like Ru I agree that you have always been way ahead financially and as bleak as it may have seemed, it was not foreclosure hardship and the like!
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Sam, did your stocks not recover their value by 2010/2011? Or had you sold them? My accounts also lost 1/3 of their value in 2009 but two years later they had regained that and more.
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@Ru You are right about taxes in Europe vs the US. I just got back from Amsterdam and around the region for 2.5 weeks this past Monday. You will enjoy the post “I’ve Seen The Future And It Looks So Bright” on my home page.
@Pauline One person’s hardship might be another person’s vacation. At the time, I thought I was going to get fired and lose it ALL, thereby wasting all those years slaving away. I could have emphasized more pain in my post, but didn’t want it to be a pity fest.
@Kiernan Yes, my stock portfolio has rebounded thank goodness, but no longer do I have the same faith in equities anymore. Instead, I wanted to build wealth by depending on my own two hands. At least I can control my work ethic, and blame nobody else but myself!
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@Nicole – Shoot, does this mean I blew my shot at writing for the NY Times? At least I tried. Thx @Kris!
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I can totally relate to your feelings about your career after the first 5-10 years. I don’t hate my job, but I can’t imagine myself doing it, or anything for that matter, for the next 40 years. I want to experience so much more than a single career path in my lifetime.
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>In 2009, I lost about one third of my net worth, despite having diversified like crazy. I had 35% of my net worth in 4-4.5% yielding long-term CDs, 35% of my net worth in stocks, and another 30% of my net worth in real estate which consisted of my primary home and two rentals. Oops!
Oh FFS. You worked in Finance in NYC. You drank the Kool-Aid and it was poisoned. You were part of the industry that engineered the destruction of the economy, and wailed when your imaginary profits vanished. You are the 1%.
Let me tell you how the 99% live.
In September 2012, I lost 75% of my net worth when the transmission in my car died. The mechanic says it will probably cost $1500 to fix, I only paid $2000 for the car. I work a temp job at $11.85/hr. I had to wait a week for payday to get it towed, I only had $40 in the bank. Now I have $700 in the bank. I have to choose, do I pay my rent, or make a downpayment on fixing the car?
It would be nice to put some money in my retirement fund (current balance: $0 at age 54) or start an emergency fund (I used it up in the last emergency).
You cannot possibly know how irritating it is to hear financial industry babble like:
> His mission to help readers build wealth through multiple asset classes while empowering readers to take control of their own financial well-being.
You are living in a bubble. You obviously never ever come in contact with anyone outside the 1%, unless they’re making you a cappucino at Starbucks.
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That isn’t the 1%. By definition the 1% are the mega-rich, not the middle class workers trying to save money. He’s writing for his audience, and by doing so he isn’t putting less value to your situation or putting you down.
I don’t understand why there are so many comments from the “you don’t have it hard enough so you don’t have anything to say” camp. The message here is pretty clear and applicable across the board, so I don’t know why people aren’t picking up on it.
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@Marla
I think the protest (I’m not making it, but I think I understand it) has to do with calling it “the bleakest of situations.” It’s not like he was a schizophrenic homeless cancer patient who was denied a cure.
He was well-off and took a hit like everyone else, was able to course-correct and do well for himself again, which is a nice story of overcoming setbacks, but it’s not One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (that’s my go-to book for coping with actual bleak situations).
For REAL bleak situations, therefore, my thought is “abandon all hope and just focus on the moment.” Because hope can be a plague too. Sometimes you just need to concentrate on staying alive so you can fight another day, and hope gets in the way by adding yet more pressure to the difficulties you already have. Having your hopes dashed is demoralizing.
I’ve found it mentally more freeing to approach tough situations with an attitude of “I wonder what will happen next” and just deal with whatever comes as it comes.
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This is why I love your posts, @El Nerdo.
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Yes…I know many who would just LOVE to have their whole life as good as his bleakest period. “Oh nos, I’ve lost tens of thousands of dollars and only have many tens of thousands left in my retirement accounts! The multiple houses I own dropped in value. Woe is me!” No, I don’t know his exact circumstances…but that’s basically how it’s reading. Seriously…this is the bleakest of situations? No…maybe it was a bit depressing, maybe things looked a bit bleak…but I guarantee it’s not the bleakest. You had money. You had a house to live in. You had food to eat, probably stuff much better than ramen noodles.
I think we lead a pretty good life currently, but I’m pretty sure we’re pretty far behind this guy in his bleakest period (financially speaking). I mean, congrats on turning things around…but it’s hard to get over the title. I kept waiting for the “bleakest” moment.
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IVAN DENISOVICH! I haven’t thought about him in years. Living in the gulag in the dark, cold, Siberian winter eating fish eyes. That will adjust your misery meter all right!
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I’m not sure if it’s optimism, or whether we have short memories, but the 2008-2010 time period was VERY bleak in my mind for a lot of people.
I’m describing the economic landscape with my title, and the way my mind was churning at the time.
Yes, even in this scenario, I realize compared to much of the world, things are not that bad. An that is what I discovered as I wrote in my post as I decided to focus on what I can control.
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To me it’s the title, not just a poor choice, a horrible choice.
“Bleakest of situations” to me is like when my friend was diagnosed with a rare and aggressive form of cancer in late 2008 Even as he suffered the affects of the cancer and the treatment he had to constantly fight with his office while they tried to find creative ways to fire him to get him off their insurance rolls. This at the same time he’d watched his carefully grown assests plummet in value at the point he and his family needed them most. Then he got to make a choice of paupering himself and his family (non-working spouse and three young kids) seeking a potential experimental cure at an out of state facility that could gave him a 50% chance at a decade or more of life, or sticking with the traditional insurance covered treatment, which, while not paupering his family, had a low (20%) probability of doing the same. He chose not to pauper his family and though he did amazing, it finally got the better of him and he passed in 2010.
Sorry, but keeping your job without a significant pay cut, not facing foreclosures, not facing total financial ruin, not facing any serious choice or lifestyle adjustment other than bitting you nails with fretting, and not having anyone but yourself you’re responsible for, doesn’t even come close to “bleak” no matter what the financial landscape looks like or how you got better.
I can appreciate your story, but just can’t stomach the title being associated with it especially given the raw nerves and lives many people have with respect to the last four years.
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“That isn’t the 1%. By definition the 1% are the mega-rich, not the middle class workers trying to save money.”
I thought by definition the 1% were the ones better off than the other 99% of the population. Now, for every person like the the OP, are there 99 people (on average) who are worse off? In the town I’m originally from, I’d say he would be in the top 0.5%, maybe even higher. Across the whole US…I dunno, maybe he’s not the top 1% but he’s gotta at least be in the top 5%.
“I don’t understand why there are so many comments from the ‘you don’t have it hard enough so you don’t have anything to say’ camp.”
I think the issue most are having (if not most…then at least me) is the title itself. It doesn’t say “A Bump In My Life and How I Overcame It” or even “Finding Hope In My Bleakest Situation”; but rather “Finding Hope In The Bleakest Of Situations”. Ok, THE bleakest of situations…wow, that’s gotta be bleak. Of all situations there are, this is one of the bleakest. Finding hope…ok, so this guy (or gal…remember we only read the title so far) was in a desperately bleak situation, but he/she found hope. Dug himself/herself out of a hopelessly bleak situation. Now THIS is a story I want to read.
But what do I get? Someone who complained that they lost some money during the housing crash. Big deal. He diversified, which is EXACTLY THE POINT! Had it all been in stocks or real estate, he just might be completely screwed. But he had his portfolio diversified, so some things took a TEMPORARY hit. TEMPORARY. This is EXACTLY why you diversify. His strategy worked. He lost some, but not all, of his net worth. His stocks recovered (real estate…maybe it hasn’t recovered 100% but I’ll bet it recovered some). So he did everything right and was able to weather the storm due to his smart investing…that’s the bleakest of situations? Seriously?
Story itself is ok. I just think it needed a more appropriate title. Sure, you want something that pulls the reader in so he/she will read the article…but let’s not set ourselves up for failure, m’kay?
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Cripes, it’s just a title, people! When did we all become so easily offended? Does a guy have to lose his house and be at death’s door before you can take just a little something away from his story?
Bleakest of times? Why I never! Cancel my subscription immediately!
Wait, you’re saying all these interesting stories are free?
Why I never! Cancel the internet!
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Dear Charles,
I’m sorry you made so many poor choices in life. I sincerely wish someone had taken you aside when you were young and told you that choices had consequences.
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Kevin,
You do realize that some people are in dire situations through no fault of their own, right? A person can make all the right choices in the world, have been a straight-A student, kept their nose clean, worked hard, been frugal and saved what they could their entire life, and STILL end up in misery, due to long-term illness, undiagnosed mental problems, accidents, and careers that suddenly drop out and disappear from underneath them at the worst times (in their elder years).
I know this all too well.
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BD,
I hear what you are saying and agree with you.
Unfortunately, even after writing a ~1,900 word post, I havent fully described my situation as good enough to not warrant an attack.
Hence, it shouldn’t be a surprise if Charles gets attacked after his comment that lacks more details of his background.
Responses are always so interesting when guest posting on different sites.
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BD,
Fair enough, we know little about the details of Charles’ situation. Perhaps I should have added some qualifications to my condemnation.
If you’re white, male, physically and mentally healthy, and have a net worth of $0 at age 54, then you are a failure.
I firmly believe that life is only 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you react to it. I’m sure some awful things have happened to Charles. So what? Everyone endures some measure of misfortune. You can either pick yourself up and do something about your situation, or you can cry and moan about the Big Bad 1% on some obscure finance blog. It’s clear which path Charles has chosen, and I suspect such choices are largely responsible for why he is where he is today.
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@Kevin – I hope this reply is sarcastic. Seriously – I can’t tell. I used to love GRS for the comments – lots of people supporting, encouraging, and challenging each other, J.D., and the writers. Many thought provoking comments, and I felt I learned something from the community.
But this is sad. Can we have a little compassion? If the comment was serious – do you have any knowledge of Charles’ life other than his comment? You have no idea what choices he has had to make that have brought him to his current situation. Medical bills, unemployment, disability…
If this is the direction the comments are going, I’m not sure I’ll be back much.
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It’s not sarcastic. I have no patience for self-entitled whiners who blame everybody but themselves for their situation.
Life doesn’t owe you a thing. If you want something, go out and get it. Don’t sit around complaining about how “unfair” life is because someone else busted their butt and earned something you want. Jealousy is ugly and laziness is pathetic.
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I know right? And the first mistake a lot of people make is choosing the wrong damn parents.
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Charles has a point. The article reads a little bit like, “Sure I’m rich now compared to most people, but I used to be only a little bit rich.” The bigger issue, for me, is that I can’t really learn anything from this particular post. I don’t have any interest in (1) starting my own personal finance blog or (2) getting a time machine and working in NYC finance in the go-go 2000′s. Remove those two pieces from the puzzle, and all the rest rings a little hollow.
I’d like to hear a little bit more about the investments though. What is your total nest egg at? How did you determine it was “enough?” What % do you hope to earn per year? How much do you plan to draw upon it per year? What percentage of your annual income is from work vs. investments? Suppose you lost all your money and you had to start completely over from scratch, what would you do first (start a blog or go back into finance?)?
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Howdy Lincoln,
“Rich” is relative. I can assure you that I am poor compared to many of my friends in SF. Furthermore, I don’t have a W2 income anymore, and am therefore earn much less since I’m just surviving off my passive investments now (rental, dividends, deferred comp etc).
I don’t know your financial status, age, goals, outlook, but here’s what I would do if I did not discover the online world:
* Look into rental property that have been hit and yield 2X the borrowing cost if you need a mortgage e.g. 8% rental yield and 4% mortgage. I think it’s a no brainer if you can accumulate immediately accretive assets now. You have an optionality of appreciation over time as well. Just hold it for a long enough time.
* I traded money for more time. For some reason, I feel very sensitive to my mortality and how quickly time goes. Here are the income streams I developed in more detail: http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/04/16/achieve-financial-freedom-slice/. I’m looking into Social Lending now, and paying off rental property mortgage (3.375%) when my 7-year CD’s come due.
* I plan to just live off the cash flow of the passive investments, or just the online income pennies that I can generate and keep the passive investments compounding.
* If I lost everything, I would get a job at a startup or probably go back into finance and start a blog. I’d probably be so risk averse that all my investments would probably just be in CDs. I’d make sure I have enough insurance so I would get wiped out.
Thx, Sam
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Sam,
As a reader of this blog from 2007, and having seen JD’s path to financial independence, I can’t help but have a little bit of cynicism about what you discuss here. Please let me expound further.
So JD begins a blog, helps develop an online personal finance community, increases number of pageviews, sells out the blog, declares financial independence and doesn’t inform readers at the time of his selling out.
You follow same path here today…now declaring financial independence. It seems that yet another personal finance blogger has fixed their personal finances by blogging (and I suspect also selling out their blog). I am really having a hard time relating to these self-help personal finance blogs anymore, because I feel that the blog owner’s motivation is insincere…
How do you respond to a reader questioning your authenticity in this way? Do any other readers feel the same?
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@Charles, sorry that your car broke down. I remember every weekend during sophomore year in high school waking up on weekends to open up our local McDonald’s at 6am for $3.25 an hour. The job sucked, the manager was abusive, and I felt a little embarrassed when a female crush would walk in to order. At least I became good at cracking eggs with one hand! I knew then that I had to do some more studying so I could do something else. Taking the $4/hr job packing boxes was much better.
You are welcome to blame me for your troubles if it helps. You can also lump everyone who works in finance together too. However, not everybody is as evil as you think. There are kind people who didn’t want others to buy more house than they can afford.
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This is how the 1% try to show their empathy. They give a speech like Paul Ryan, telling about how they worked at McDonalds as a kid.
I am sure this sounds great to your friends inside your 1% bubble.
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Charles,
You sound pretty angry. Just curious what life path led you to be 54 and living paycheck to paycheck. I am serious and would like to learn from you.
Also, I don’t believe that Sam is the typical financial industry type…he saved 50% and then 70% of his income.
Brent
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Its easier to save 50% and 70% of your income when you’re making way more than a basic living wage while single, childless and (I assume) healthy. At $11.85/hr I don’t see how that’s possible.
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Charlie, I was planning on voting for Obama as the future looks pretty bright (http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/09/06/ive-seen-americas-future-and-it-looks-bright/)
You cool with that? Or are we not allowed to be on the same side?
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@Sam wrote, “I knew then that I had to do some more studying so I could do something else.”
WOW, was that condescending!
And THIS:
“You are welcome to blame me for your troubles if it helps.”
THIS is just a bit hypocritical given that in your article you blame the gov’t for “taxing you to death.”
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I had a 3.3-3.4GPA out of 4.0 Freshman/Sophomore year and working at MCD was a wake up call to do better my Junior and Senior year b/c I didn’t wanto to be limited to MCD. How is that condescending?
I blamed the world for my losses and stupidity, until I stopped being angry and started doing something for myself, like writing and diversifying my income further in case of another collapse. Pls explain the hypocrisy.
Thx
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Condescending because by stating that studying hard was your key to financial success, you imply that Charles (and others who have not met with the same success) did not study hard — indeed that he’s even uneducated or undereducated. Though I don’t know Charles personally (and I’ll grant you that he seems to have a chip on his shoulder), I’m sure there are many others here who can tell you that achieving a higher education can just as easily be the key to back-breaking debt. (Where’s Honey Smith when you need her?)
Hypocritical because yes, in the article you do blame others (incl. the gov’t, pols, and your former tenants) for your losses. You say in your reply here, and in a subheading in your article, that “you’re a changed man” and no longer so angry, but that’s not quite the same thing as taking responsibility for your situation. Nor is “coping” the same as “changing one’s attitude.” At least, I just skimmed over your article again, and I don’t see such a change in actual words.
FWIW, I don’t resent you your former wealth or your newfound promising career trajectory, and I wish you well in future. I’m just sayin’, the tone of your writing strikes me as unempathetic; egotistical. You can take that or leave it — I’m just one reader — but I do mean it as constructive criticism.
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Fair enough, but do you think your first comment saying “wow this is hypocritical” and “condescending” is really constructive criticism?
How would you react if you got that type of response? Your second comment is constructive, but definitely not your first.
Share with me your story. Why do you think other commenters have no problem with this post?
Do you mind reading this post after you’re done answering my questions? http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/06/23/you-will-always-be-viewed-as-arrogant-if-you-have-more/
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If McDonald’s is the worst job you’ve ever had…congrats! You’re living the high life! Trust me, there’s much worse jobs than getting paid minimum wage in a halfway comfortable environment (ok, maybe it got a wee bit hot in the summers) and all the food you could eat (when the main manager’s not around).
That said, many people never work a job as low as McDonald’s, and I think it’s important to have some experience in such an area. For one thing, it’s not completely beneath you; if you’re about to lose everything you had, I’m guessing that YOU would resort to working there again, if you had to. But many would steadfastly refuse, and end up in a much worse position. Oh, and it probably helps you empathize with people working there…maybe you’ll be a bit kinder than some of the jerks…er…”people” I’ve seen in line ahead of me.
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Would love to read about your worst job experiences and pay. Thx!
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Worked on a farm most of my childhood, so fixing barbwire fences, bush hogging, cutting/raking hay, cold cold mornings trying to start the tractor so you can get hay out to the cows, etc. Didn’t get paid except when I cut/raked hay, then it was $1-$2 per bale (round bales…I didn’t exactly make bank).
Worked at Taco Bell for a bit, that was probably one of the best “real” jobs. Barely above minimum wage.
Then it was on to Tyson’s (the chicken company) doing clean-up. I forget the hours, had to be 8-10 hours of just washing chicken parts off the (sometimes dangerous) machinery to get it ready for the next day. Paid better than minimum wage (think it was $7-$8/hr at the time, can’t remember for sure…we’re talking almost 15 years ago.
Of course there’s more jobs, just highlighting the ones that may be considered “worse” than (or equal to, in the case of Taco Bell) McDonald’s. Not that I really minded any of them; Taco Bell was great, working on a farm had its upsides, and Tyson’s…well…it was a decent paycheck at the time. They also had a decent breakfast in the cafeteria.
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Josetann,
It’s funny how some people’s hardships are others’ dreams. I think you’re lucky for having been able to live on a farm at least once in your life (and as a child! Lucky!)
I’ve always wanted to live on a farm as a child. I still wish I was able to live on a farm and even have to do all that hard farm-work you describe. It’d be worth it to be able to own my own chickens, horses, and goats. But, so far, it’s a dream I have not even been able to come close to attaining. (Having any sort of place of my own is still just a dream, and I’m middle-aged now.)
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“I still wish I was able to live on a farm and even have to do all that hard farm-work you describe.”
Those with money can have fun owning a farm. Because when a cow dies and has to be drug to a ditch (hooking a chain around its legs), you just call the help. Fence down, again, call the help to deal with the barbed wire (and rounding up the lost cows). Cow’s having problems giving birth and you need someone to attach a come-a-long to the calf’s feet and pull it out…well, you get the idea.
But if you got money, then living on a farm means going out every so often, admiring the fields and the cows, doing some manual labor (building a shed is ideal, but get the help to do the hard parts), etc.
I’m honestly not trying to complain; rather, your idea of living on a farm is going to be a bit different than my experiences growing up.
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I find it interesting how many people idealize farm life. A friend of mine grew up on a farm and it was no walk in the park: getting up at 3:00AM to deliver a sheep (yuck) and some of them died in the process, getting kicked in the gut by a cow while in the process of performing an enema on them (yes, they get constipated), dealing with the aftermath of an enema, getting chased by a swarm of bees while you’re allergic, dealing with the financial burden of sick animals, unseasonable weather, etc. Never being able to travel or leave town for extended periods of time and always living on the edge financially.
Its charming on TV or in magazines, but the reality is a hard life.
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Carla,
I’m not a total greenhorn. I KNOW what farm life entails. I’m NOT romanticizing it. However, unlike most people, I don’t mind being armful up in cow fetus and goo to pull out a calf. It simply doesn’t gross me out. I’d even clean the smegma out of a gelding, or put down an animal that is suffering. I’d deal with botflies in the nose, stomach and anus of the animals, or a cow that has explosive diarrhea (word to the wise: Do NOT stand behind a cow when it is sick if you don’t want to get dirty). All these things are just things you deal with when you own animals. For people that love animals enough, it doesn’t phase them… it’s just something you deal with, because there are times that make all the crap (no pun intended) 100% worth it.
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Ha, the tone of some of these comments makes me feel like I’m back in the good old days over at The Simple Dollar. It’s The Hunger Games around here!
I really enjoyed this article, as my financial position will likely be imploding soon as well, and it’s a bitter pill to swallow when you’ve worked hard for a long time only to see the fruit of that snatched away. It’s hard to start again, but exciting too – so I’m with you on that one. I might not retire at 55, which was my plan A, but Plan B is that *I’m* in control of whatever happens to me next, and that’s a pretty good feeling.
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” I might not retire at 55, which was my plan A, but Plan B is that *I’m* in control of whatever happens to me next”
GREAT attitude! That is the optimistic spirit I love!
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Sam, your story is very inspiring to millions who are facing setbacks. What advice would you give to someone who has still not recovered from the housing bubble of 2008?
The stock market has recovered, but not all stocks have bounced. Apple commands a major percentage of Nasdaq with its market capitalization.
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Sheesh these comments are harsh, I’m not as well off as this guy either even during his lowest point but I felt uplifted by the article and I too was an optimist after reading it. Watching years of hard work go up in smoke bites whatever your circumstance. As I’m trying to be smarter about personal finance I’m grateful that people like JD and this guy and others write articles for me to enjoy for free. Saves me from buying a book and helps me keep a positive mindset. The thing I eventually wised to is, if you resent successful people, its likely you’re not going to end up one; because why would you want what you don’t like? Thanks for writing the article!
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@Shilpan My advice is to try and view one’s house as a home instead of an investment and try to forget about the lost equity and focus on making the best memories possible. The median homeownership duration is only about 5.6 years, too short IMO to build long term wealth. If affordability is an issue, research your state law on short-sales, foreclosures, government support, and implications for taxes and credit scores.
Hopefully most people’s overall stock portfolios have rebounded. I would encourage folks to lower expectations of the markets to ~4% and work on other income generating ideas based solely on one’s own efforts.
In iPhone, can’t write much longer. Sorry!
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From what I understand, real estate doesn’t build wealth over the long term by itself. House values average out to 1% growth, with inflation at 3%. Of course there’s small periods of time there’s a lot of gain or loss, but that’s playing roulette.
You can build wealth through renting, but of course there’s pros and cons to that.
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@m “The thing I eventually wised to is, if you resent successful people, its likely you’re not going to end up one; because why would you want what you don’t like? ”
That’s one of the most insightful comments I’ve ever read! Thx! I’ve failed a lot, and still have some crappy investments to work through. Money investing is hard. But, I encourage everyone to at least try!
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@Maria – Over the log run, inflation and real estate appreciate rates are roughly the same. The benefit is on a tax shield perspective and on a leverage perspective.
A 10% increase in a property (100 to 110), after putting 20% down (20), means your cash on cash return is 10/20 = 50%.
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Multiple careers is inevitable! Financial independence is an opportunity to explore and experience multiple careers. The adventure is just beginning, it is up to you where this goes. I know that is how I handles financial independence.
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What I love about Sam is that he is a man of action and always looks at the positives. The commenters who are complaining are missing the point and obviously aren’t familiar with how much Sam has accomplished and helped people in the PF community as well as his readers.
As a blogger I appreciate and have a lot of respect for fellow bloggers who openly share their personal experiences and knowledge with others. We don’t have to share our life stories and knowledge with the world, but we do because we want to help others, get people thinking, connect with our own thoughts and also connect with other people.
Sam I think it’s awesome that you are doing what you love and that you’ve been successful! Congrats on retiring and hope you’re having a blast at FinCon!
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Thanks Sydney! Always appreciate the support! We must go to Fincon13 next year! Hope it’s in San Diego, or perhaps even SF.
Hope all is well and I’m glad you are feeling better!
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Read a few blogs similar to his (mr Money Mustache comes to mind) and the same question keeps coming to mind. How the heck can someone save 50-70 percent of thier wage, I run a tight ship along with many of my friends and there is no way any of us can save that much!!!!
I’d love to hear on those who do that, specficly how you do that, especially when rent and utilities take up half your pay.
Rob
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I think half of it is priorities (if your rent and utilities take up 50%, that’s usually called being “house poor” – but some people don’t want to live in smaller, less expensive places or locations) and half of it is how much money you make (i.e. finding ways to make more money, either with side businesses or a different job/career track).
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“How the heck can someone save 50-70 percent of thier wage”
Idea’s simple. Increase your wage, keep your expenses low.
Last year we were probably able to save over 70%, I never checked the final numbers though. Wife had a travel nurse contract in Fairbanks, AK that paid decent. Included housing, utilities, car allowance, etc. We did have to pay minimal utilities on our house back home (which is paid for, so it’s just utilities, insurance, and property taxes). We did splurge some…trip to Anchorage (to get our medicals done for Australia visa), bought scooter so I could ride it back to TN (which I didn’t complete, not even close…but I did ride it up to Coldfoot), some limited sightseeing, etc.
I don’t think we’re quite at 50% this year, but we didn’t expect to be either. Still, we’re doing ok. Same basic ideas. Didn’t rent the biggest place we could “afford”, bought used appliances and furniture (and car…which was still expensive), bought a cheap 42″ lcd tv instead of a huge expensive 3d model, etc. I mean, it cost a lot…but I see people planning a move here who are asking if some huge number (like $85,000) is enough to get settled in…yikes! No thanks, I’ll just slum it instead.
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I think Marla and Josetann are right, you can only lower expenses so much. After that, you have to increase the income to increase the savings.
In my own financial situation, I’ve seen that maintaining expenses while saving the increases in income is the key (for me) to hitting a higher savings rate. For example, from 2007-2011 my husband and I lived off of one income in one of the cheapest cities in the Midwest. We could save 2-4% of our income, and 40-50% of our income was spent on housing/utilities and food. The rest wasn’t wasted, we used that to pay for transportation, insurance, school/loans, a little allowance and trips to see family. Last year, we moved to the Bay area. With that, our housing/utilities/food expenses doubled compared to the Midwest cost (Ouch!). But our income tripled (Yay, two incomes now!). Now we save 33% of our income, and 28% goes to housing/utilities and food. The other day, I asked my husband what he would like to do with future increases in income. He said, ‘invest the s*** out of it.’ I think he’s right, and I hope that by keeping our expenses low and saving the raises we can eventually save 50-70% of our income and reach financial independence like Sam.
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Howdy mate, as others have commented, it’s about priorities.
I shared a $1,800 a month studio with another dude in NYC my first year b/c I wanted to save money (was the cheapest we could find within a 10 minute walk to work). I made around $50,000 that year and maxed out my 401K and saved several more thousand as my living was $900/month and I had free food thanks to the company. Didn’t have time to go out too much!
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Sam, I appreciate your perspective and your positive attitude. Quick question re: Step 3, what changes are you making to your diversification strategy since you felt fairly diversified last time?
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Hi Julie! Great seeing you in Denver this weekend!
Since the various income stream post , I bought some structured notes (derivatives that invest in the S&P and Dow with downside protection, but upside limitation), and plan to invest in social lending. http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/05/07/understanding-structured-derivative-products-cdsnote-as-an-investment/
Social lending really seems attractive with returns of well over 5% for a diversified portfolio.
I also plan to continue working on marketing my book slowly. It’s a 6 month plan.
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There were some commenter’s on JD’s ‘Vacation’ post that mentioned that they don’t learn anything on GRS. I agree, but I keep coming back because the soap-opera comments are addicting. The examples on this post are a good example. That being said – no one has mentioned the ‘engineering my layoff’ comments. What does that mean? Did you set yourself up to be let go? How does one do that? Does that mean you got severance? You say at one point in the article that you retired, but you used the term ‘engineered layoff’ at least twice. Sounds fishy.
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It’s his version of “planning early retirement”.
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“Engineered layoff” is a term I’ve coined that describes the result of a person who empowered themselves with employment rights and managed to negotiate a positive exit strategy for all parties.
Unless you plan to work until death, you will want to eventually get laid off. Don’t ever quit. There’s a big difference.
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I think this is a great post and I think that losing one’s net worth- at any income level- is catastrophic. I don’t understand where all the negativity is coming from.
Sam, I think you’re great!
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Hey Holly! Good to see ya here. Thanks for your thoughts.
It is ALWAYS painful, no matter what income or net worth level indeed. One can even argue that it could be more painful with a higher net worth, but not absurd net worth, b/c it might have taken longer and with more hours of work to get there.
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Exactly. He still lost a third of his hard-earned money. While it may not have been a debilitating situation like it would be to some, I’m sure it was very frustrating, demoralizing and scary.
Although I do agree the title of this article could use an adjustment.
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Hi Erica,
I should have done a better job of redescribing how bleak the 2009 year was. I really thought I was going to lose everything and get fired and live at home w/ my parents.
I was hoping to connect w/ others who lost a lot during this time period share their stories as well.
S
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I had significant “paper losses” in my 401(k) during 2008-09, but since I still have decades to go for retirement, I just viewed it as dollar-cost-averaging that would probably help me in the long-term. As such, I INCREASED my 401(k) contributions during the years the market was looking awful.
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Sam,
Are you married/significant other with kids to raise or support?
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It’s good to meet another financial optimist out there! I had a similar experience with the second crash of the ‘oughts’ (I wasn’t in the market back in 2000), but even as I watched my portfolio (mostly stocks) clutch its chest and gasp, I couldn’t help but think; FIRE SALE! You don’t actually lose (or make) money in stocks unless you sell. Until then, it’s all theoretical.
So I took what cash I had and bought into stocks like crazy. After all, the stock market has all or mostly recovered from every single major downturn within a year or two (the dip after 9/11 was back to pre-event levels in about 60 days). The upswing since 2009 has catapulted my new purchases far above my old levels. I’m by no means a huge stake-holder, but my bang for buck ratio has been very gratifying.
Bottom line; stick with it! The only way you lose is getting out at the bottom (or if the entire economy collapses, in which case my ‘investments’ in canned fruit and toilet paper will fund my retirement).
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Right on! It’s more fun to be an optimist than a pessimist.
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I found this post very valuable (granted I see similarities between my situation and the author, but I’m still chugging away on the 9-8 track). I don’t understand all of the negative backlash. Also, he is not the 1% (at least not from how he described himself I am guessing). From the Economist: The average household income of the 1% was $1.2m in 2008, according to federal tax data. The ultra-rich skew that average upwards: admission to the 1% began at $380,000 in 2008. The Congressional Budget Office puts the cut-off lower, at $347,000 in 2007, or $252,000 after subtracting federal taxes and adding back transfers. Measured by net worth, rather than income, the top 1% started at $6.9m in 2009, according to the Federal Reserve, down 23% from 2007.
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Hi BM,
I’m definitely not in the 1% with no more day job income!
But, that’s the thing, I don’t mind. The free time increase has been wonderful and worth it.
S
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@Ryan #76,
Thanks for your comment. To answer your questions, I became financially independent through 13 years of saving, investing, sweating, and taking a lot of risks. 2008-2009 slaughtered me financially, and I thought I was going to lose everything at one point.
I never thought I’d be able to last at my job more than 5 years, let alone 13 years. Everything gets a little dull after a while, and I know a lot of people feel the same way about their jobs.
You can read this post (http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/04/16/achieve-financial-freedom-slice/) where I highlight my investments and passive income streams. I decided at the age of 35 it was NOW OR NEVER. I wanted to show people that even in bleak situations such as when the world was ending in 2008-2009, that doing something small can make profound differences in one’s life over time.
I originally wanted to gut it out for 5 more years until I was 40, but I decided to take the leap of faith and do something on my own. JD took his leap of faith, and I have been following GRS since early 2008 and watched him evolve.
Things change. Circumstances change. What we can control is our own outlook, our own optimism, and our own work ethic. Everything else, we just hope for the best.
Thanks for reading.
Best,
Sam
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Best of luck — and kudos for having a thick enough skin to post here at the shark tank!
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Ahh, my skin as as thick as an elephant’s butt! I love everyone’s thoughts!
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I’m willing to bet not everyone reading this blog worked in finance for 13 years playing with other people’s money nor was able to accumulate those kinds of numbers in about 10 years time. If I’m doing the math correctly, in the span of 9 or 10yrs you were able to accumulate at least 600k (College grad at ~22yo, working 13yrs takes you to 35) you lost hundreds of thousands of dollars quickly by ~2009) in investments – so money invested after paying your living expenses were accounted for.
Those that get there, wherever “there” is sometimes forget how to relate to those not as fortunate to get “there’. This feels a bit like another ‘get rich blogging’ article when all is said and done.
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How is this a ‘get rich blogging’ article when 99% of my wealth is from my savings and investments?
What’s your story? Love to hear it.
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Fantastic post. Love the author’s relentlessly positive attitude in the face of spectacular misfortune. Sounds like he took a big hit but was able to improvise, modify, adapt, and overcome. I really dig stories like this because it requires a toughness that, frankly, few people have.
Truly inspiring – thanks a ton for writing.
Tim Murphy
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I only scanned the comments, but two things are unclear to me.
First, if you retired at age 35, how are you paying for health insurance? Are you paying for it with your savings, or are you going without?
Second, I fail to understand how the collapse of the housing market directly affected you. Granted, if you were about to sell your own home, or one of the rental properties, then yes, that’s a problem. But if the rentals were paying for themselves, who cares what their market value would be? And if you were comfortable in your own home, and could afford the mortgage payment, and weren’t planning to move, then what’s the difference what the sales price would be? Stay in it as long as it suits your needs. Only when you decide to move would the sales price actually affect you. Otherwise, the “loss” is purely theoretical. No?
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Hi RJB,
Health insurance is pretty cheap if you check online. A single health 35 year old can get HI for $350/month for example. There are a lot of issues. Check esurance or somewhere.
As part of my severance, I have health care for a specific period of time for free. It is great, and something one gets if they get to engineer their layoff or just get laid off. You don’t quit, you get nothing.
One of my properties is sucking wind. So yes, it is only a paper loss, but it is psychologically a painful loss and does cost me more than I take in. If we go this route, then really, if we have enough money to survive, any money above subsistence is just psychological as well.
Best,
Sam
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OK, that works well for a single 35-year-old. However, you won’t stay 35 for long. At some point, you’ll be 50, 55, 60. The rates might not seem so reasonable anymore for a person that age, and the benefits from your former job would have ended long ago.
Also, you may or may not still be single at that time. Let’s say you’re not. Now there are health insurance costs for your spouse, and for your children if any. How would those be covered?
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Yes, we all grow old, and then that’s the end of life. I fully expect health insurance costs to go up. For $1,500 a month, you can get coverage for a family of four with two kids.
The secret to coverage is to just pay more for coverage. I’m not quite sure what the deeper meaning is that you are asking.
Perhaps you want to read this post to have a better understanding of my current income streams.
http://www.financialsamurai.com/2012/04/16/achieve-financial-freedom-slice/
Thanks,
Sam
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I don’t see any of this as “bleak”. These are just life lessons. I’m not sure you’ve really dealt with adversity. Perhaps prosperity doesn’t ride well with humility.
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