Honey Progress Report: Credit Card Payoff Edition
Published on - September 13th, 2012 (by Honey Smith) This article is from new staff writer Honey Smith.
I’ve been at GRS for well over a month now, and I’ve learned a lot. At this point, I’ve been able to implement some changes to my spending. I can now provide an update on the effect those changes have had on my bottom line — namely, that I’ve paid off the outstanding balance on my credit card!
I have also been giving serious thought not only to debt payoff strategies, but also to my attitude about my debt. This reflection process actually started four years ago, when I stopped being a student and got my first “real” job.
Reductions in My Irregular Expenses
The post on where I’m starting from included estimated amounts based on the previous year. Now that we’re most of the way through the year, I have actual amounts for most categories. Rather than listing everything again, I am only going to address categories where my projection didn’t meet reality.
- Auto insurance: $530 (annual amount). I projected $500, so this is an increase of $30, or 6%. Sometimes my insurance is slightly more or less than the previous term — I have no idea why this happens since my coverage and location haven’t changed.
- Auto registration: $61.20. I projected $42, so this is an increase of $19.20, or 45%. However, it’s because I’m doing a two-year renewal, so I won’t have this expense again next year.
- Hair care (service): $248 instead of $600 per year going forward, a decrease of $352, or 58%. I accomplished this by switching to a cut every three months ($62) instead of a cut and color ($150).
- Health care (copays, etc.): $500. I projected $1,000, but I’d double-counted my massage membership as both a regular and irregular expense. This adjustment is due to an error, but compared to my original projection it is a reduction of $500, or 50%.
- Vet expenses (pets): $418 YTD for our two cats and a dog ($209 per person, since Jake and I split this expense). This is a savings of $1,882 or 81% over last year’s expenses of $2,300. I do understand that our pets are elderly and this could change at any time.
- Original estimate based on last year’s expenses in these categories only: $3,292
- Actual amount spent/projected in these categories only: $1,757.20
- Reductions: $1,534.80, or 46%
Reductions in Regular Expenses
I have decided to make only one change at a time in this category. I don’t want to overwhelm myself with too many changes at once only to find myself backtracking or rebelling. This month I took a hard look at my life insurance and supplemental disability.
The bill I received each month was actually for three policies: a whole life policy, a term policy, and a supplemental disability policy. Though they were separate policies, I received them as a single bill because they were all through the same provider. Originally this payment was $96/month.
The usual advice is to not get a whole life policy, as they can be expensive and tend not to be very good investment vehicles. However, at the time I took out the policy I was worried that if I ended up having the disease that killed my mother, then I would die after the term policy expired but also after incurring significant expenses for my care. I didn’t want Jake to be responsible for the cost of caring for me.
Now that I have a long-term care insurance (LTCI) policy, however, it made sense to take another look. It turns out that the term policy was until age 80 and had a payout of $450,000. Since my mom died when she was 46 and this disease tends manifest at a younger age in subsequent generations, I felt the term was more than sufficient. It turned out that the whole life policy only paid out $50,000 but was incurring about half the monthly expense.
I bought my LTCI through a group deal brokered by my employer, so first I confirmed that the policy would be portable if I left my job (it is). Then I spoke to my insurance agent and confirmed that I could cancel the whole life policy without any impact on the term policy or the supplemental disability policy (I could). So I pulled the trigger and cancelled the whole life policy.
This reduced my regular monthly expense by $46. However, there was another aspect to this cancellation that I didn’t anticipate.
Windfalls and Debt Reduction
If anyone’s ever tried to sell you whole life insurance, you will know that one of the “benefits” often touted about these policies is that they accumulate a cash value. In my case, that cash value was about $1,500. This windfall was direct deposited into my checking account after I cancelled the policy.
Funny aside: Immediately after trying to convince me not to cancel the policy because it was a “good investment,” my insurance agent told me that the cash value wouldn’t be taxed as income because the investment vehicle had underperformed compared to the market.
In my reckoning post in June, my credit card debt was $2,435.66. In July I made my normal payment of $200. After factoring in the interest payment of $16.93, my balance stood at $2,252.59.
The cancellation of my life insurance was processed before my August payment was due, so I bumped that payment up to $250 (I figured I could squeeze $4 out of my $40 cash allowance, which I normally spend at the bagel shop). After factoring in the interest payment of $15.13, my balance stood at $2,017.72.
I applied the cash value of my life insurance policy to my balance as soon as the direct deposit cleared, bringing the total balance to $517.72.
Next, and much to my surprise, my dad continued his traditional gift for my birthday. I sent him an email of protest when I saw the balance in my bank account (he doesn’t write checks, he has my account number). He said that I should “Have a great day, use your gift wisely or unwisely – just make yourself happy.” I decided what made me happy was to pay off my remaining credit card balance in full (again, assuming that I can go without a few bagels for the extra $17.72).
So now my consumer debt is completely paid off and I have $250/month of breathing room in my budget.
My Debt-Reduction Philosophy Going Forward
First and foremost, I am an optimist. To me, “taking responsibility” means learning from my decisions and making different ones going forward, not beating myself up about what’s already been done. I don’t think it’s necessary to punish myself or feel guilty about things I can’t change.
In that spirit, while I understand I will likely experience setbacks, I’m going to look at my budget as a Tool for Making Things Possible. I’m going to do my best to focus on celebrating successes along the way.
I am (and have always been) in good standing with my lenders and intend to pay off all my debts in full. However, I view this as a legal responsibility and not a moral one. I would feel differently if I owed money to individuals rather than the federal government, but that’s not my situation.
Second, I’m going to keep in mind that even under the best case scenario, my debt is something that is going to take years and lots of patience to address. I can’t speed up time and I’m not willing to eat nothing but rice and beans or not live my life for the next 20 years until this is done. This is especially the case since I am 33 and there is a 50% chance that I have the same disease that killed my mother when she was 46.
So I’m going to travel, both to visit friends and family and to see the world. I’m going to go to happy hour. I’m going to buy a new computer. I’m going to pay for these things with cash after I save up the entire cost in advance. I am going to balance these things against the desire to pay off my debts sooner rather than later, but it’s going to be a balance. That’s What Works For Me.
And I’m happy about that.
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I really take exception to you stating you don’t feel a moral obligation to pay the federal government back because they are not an individual. The federal government’s budget COMES from individuals so if you don’t pay your loans back, I, as a tax payer, have to pay more taxes to cover it. So actually you’d be hurting every individual that pays taxes in this country… not just one individual you owe a loan to.
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Yeah, but… she is going to pay them back. Just not for moral reasons.
In fact, if she doesn’t accelerate her repayments, that just maximizes the amount of revenue the federal government receives from Honey
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She did say she plans to pay the loans back.
I’m not sure what the need is for distinguishing “moral” and “legal” responsibilities in this case, but it might just mean that she cares about the legal responsibility of paying bills when they’re due or paying a at a lower rate while eligible, not the moral obligation of paying them off as quickly as possible, because she’s not harming any individual people by not paying her loans off extra-fast. (And whatever the legal due dates and amounts are, the federal government signed on for that too, so you can’t really say it’s not fair of her to follow them.)
Either way, she is not personally screwing you over by feeling a “legal” and not “moral” responsibility toward her federal loans, and trust me, of all the potential government policies that are going to hurt you personally, people paying their loans back slowly is not what you should be worrying about.
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Yes, she did say she plans to pay the loans back. However, distinguishing between legal and moral responsibilities does illustrate intention and hints at character.
A moral obligation to pay a debt does not mean “paying them off as quickly as possible” or “extra-fast”. It does mean that your intention is to pay it off, as agreed. You have signed your name on the agreement and/or given your word.
Legally, it is possible to have most loans forgiven through bankruptcy, but not student loans. Honey knows that if she becomes ill her student loan obligations will end on her death.
I’m guessing that, financially and to achieve “balance”,it makes the most sense for her to pay the least that is required, enjoy life, and hope for the best. I hope she lives another fifty-plus years making her term insurance null and void, and her student loans a memory from long ago.
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Also, if the rates on her student loans are lower than the rates on her other debts, such as her credit cards, then she is better off paying off those loans first. And, as someone else pointed out, the longer she takes to pay off her student loans the more interest the government earns. When I graduated college the financial aid lady told us all to pay off our credit cards first because they would be at a much higher rate than our student loans.
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Laws and legal requirements help us, as a society, eliminate concerns of what an *individual* considers moral or not. I’ve seen individuals claim they are morally justified for taking money from parents, grandparents, uncles, etc. and not paying it back, which I think most here would consider a moral obligation. Legal lending eliminates that need for determining moral purposes. Therefore I’m happy Honey has recognized her legal obligation to pay, and plans to do so. I may wish she considered it a moral obligation, but I don’t have to as long as she recognizes the legal side of it.
So she’ll pay us US citizens back, oh yes, she’ll pay, either voluntarily or by having the gargantuan gristmill grind it from her raw flesh via our tax dollars at work
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This response seems a little too nit-picky for an otherwise excellent post. There is so much good going on here—let’s focus on that instead of one minor point she made at the end.
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This one minor comment is a huge problem because it is the mindset of a group of people(generally younger) that don’t seem to understand the proper role of the government in a capitalistic society and who provides the funding for everything that the government “supposedly” provides. Last week it was somone thanking the government for a “free” education. This week it is someone who doesn’t feel a moral obligation to repay a debt because it is due to the government. As anyone required to take economics in college anymore?
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Apologies if this is getting political, but everyone in this country, man/woman, old/young exhibits entitlement (isn’t always a bad thing, for instance, we feel entitled to a fair trial, etc.).
Despite your “younger people” generalization, financially, the worst entitled offenders may be seniors, who currently see no moral issue with taking out 3 times more in Medicare than they paid in (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010203213.html).
Not saying they shouldn’t, but it seems a little ridiculous to call Honey and other millennials “entitled” for paying back loans at the contractually defined/agreed upon rate, and extrapolating this as “young people are entitled”.
Sorry to jump on this comment, but this attitude that our elderly (or baby boomers, etc.) had/have a different ethical compass really pushes my buttons.
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Some people do take economics, Julie, but I suspect you’re not one of them. “Capitalism” as an abstract system certainly doesn’t imply a moral burden on individuals to forgo taking advantage of legal financial arrangements that are to their benefit. Do you think our most profitable corporations are forgoing tax credits they qualify for because it’s “immoral” not to contribute their share to the government when they benefit from infrastructure, police services, a trained workforce, and more? (Spoiler alert: they’re not.)
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Hi Honey –
Thanks for your post. I love the progress you’re making!
When do you think younger people should begin to consider long-term care (LTC) insurance? At what age/transition point? It sounds like you have had to think about it earlier than most due to a health condition.
How do you think about balancing LTC versus retirement and other insurance products?
Both of my parents have LTC policies but they are in their 60′s and the likelihood that they will need some coverage in the next 20 years is around 70%.
One particular angle I am interested in is what is the tradeoff between disability insurance and LTC insurance for young people?
My hypothesis is that LTC insurance is not worth the expense (I was quoted at $800 a year as a healthy young male). My thoughts were:
1. Disability insurance is a better use of capital
2. Most young people don’t yet have dependents, consequently only their personal assets are at direct risk
3. For people under 65 the chances of needing LTC is 1.4%
4. Events for young people that would require LTC are often quiet severe and would burn through traditional LTC coverage amounts quickly
I know your situation is different but I would love your perspective as you have thought about some of these considerations before. Thanks!
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I thought this NPR piece had a good discussion and good advice. http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-05-29/long-term-care-insurance
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Thank you for this recommendation Rose. A great program to listen to on a Saturday morning!
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@JP Adams, I agree LTCI is tricky. I took out mine because 1) I got a SCREAMING deal because of a group rate made possible by my employer (over 10,000 employees). If I’d gotten the same coverage on my own I’d probably be paying more along the lines of what you were quoted. In fact, it seems to have been a failed experiment because I got a letter that said that while they’ll continue to honor my policy, that insurance company is no longer offering LTCI.
The thing about this type of insurance is that if you wait until you’re likely to need it to buy it, then it’s going to be WAAAAAY more. Personally (and I am NOT an insurance expert) I would not buy LTCI as a hedge against accidents or diseases you can’t predict. I would only really consider it seriously if you know you’re at a high risk of something specific (MS, breast cancer, Alzheimer’s, that type of thing).
But then again it is also about what amount of risk you are willing to tolerate and what your financial situation is. Only you know that.
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Oh, and 2) because I knew there was a 50% chance I’d need it, likely within the next 15 years. Knew I lost track of something in that reply…
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This is entirely your call, but can’t you have some testing done to know one way or another? It sure makes it easier to plan for the future if you know that you have one or not.
I can’t imagine living with that particular sword over your head!
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Is there no genetic test for this condition? Your posts give me the impression you’re a planner- so why not find out if you have the gene or not so you can plan accordingly?
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Honey – Thanks for your reply. What a great lens – don’t purchase LTC as a hedge against accidents or disease you can predict. This makes sense.
The next question that popped into my head was – how do I know if I have a likelihood of getting a disease or condition?
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I know that you had some transparency into your risks due to your Mom, but I’m curious if you have any recommendations for people in their 20′s or 30′s. Are there any tests we should take? Should we begin talking to family about family health history?
Thank you!
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Talking to your family is where I’d start. Then if you are at risk for some things based on that history, there may be tests you can take to confirm or rule it out (if you’re comfortable with those tests – I’m not).
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Thanks Honey
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Hi, My husband is 17 years older than I am and we got LTCI when I was about 48 (I’m now 61). the cost for me is much less than it is for him, and for the two of us it amounts to less than $2500 per year. That may seem like a lot but for me, especially as I get older, it is peace of mind – which is priceless. I suggest getting it as soon as you think you can afford it because the younger you are, the cheaper it is. My portion is just over $1K per year. Good luck!
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Good progress Honey! Good Luck going forward!
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I was coming here to say congratulations, and also thinking to myself that people are going to be upset now that you’ve done something good, and they won’t have anything to judge and berate you for… but in fact someone already found something. It blows me away how you have become the GRS whipping boy.
I think it’s great that you used your windfalls to pay off debt, rather than spending them on something unnecessary. I remember how good it felt the first time I paid off my student loans (I’ve been back to school since then). Paying off debt is such a relief.
Thank you also for your explanation of *why* you feel you need to have some balance in your life. I hope you stay healthy.
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Congratulations. Keep up the good work. It’s going to be a long road to eliminate all the debt. Patience is key.
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I’m surprised that the term policy is good until you are 80 years old since most of the ones I’ve seen are based on a limit (20 or 30 years). You might actually benefit next go round with insurance looking into getting one with a shorter term limit (say 30 years) that might be less expensive (you’d be in your 60′s at that point). Regardless I think it is a smart move if you are in a stable position to take one step at time, say monthly, like you are doing to review a major portion of your fixed expenses. Within a year you would then have addressed most if not all your areas of finance reviewed and hopefully optimized for your personal situation.
Periodic reviews of your expenses also helps when something you needed a year ago doesn’t fit with what you need now. Like collision on an older car may be appropriate the first few years you own it, then not a viable cost once the value drops so much they’d only give you a few thousand for it anyway if totaled. Too often we get caught in the momentum of paying and forget to question why we’re paying.
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Great observation. We’ve just continued to pay our car/house insurance unchanged for the past few years. Both vehicles are now older and may not warrant the same coverage. We were more focussed last year on the addition of a teen driver which added $1050 to the annual bill. It’s high time we reviewed our coverage and got comparison quotes.
I also think this sort of logic should apply to other major expenses in our lives. Yes paying down the mortgage quickly is great, but have you recently rejustified living in your current place? It may have made sense a few years ago but does it suit your needs now? Perhaps the economy is keeping you there for now, but revalidating the spending you consider “fixed” on a regular basis is always a good idea.
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I agree with the one step at a time approach. It sounds like the insurance changes required a lot of phone calls and reading insurance policies… That takes time and effort, expecially slogging through the policy jargon
And it must feel GREAT to have paid off the credit card!!!
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Kudos, Honey! Best wishes as you continue to pay off your debt and try to find some balance. I look forward to hearing more.
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Two things here. First, this is your best post yet and I think if you keep progressing like this and we’re going to like having you around.
Secondly I really like that you’re trying to make one budget change at a time. It’s not easy to stick with too many big changes, but little differences each month definitely add up. Congrats on paying off the credit cards!
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Re: “Reductions in Regular Expenses -
I have decided to make only one change at a time in this category. I don’t want to overwhelm myself with too many changes at once only to find myself backtracking or rebelling.”
I’m just re-reading Dan Ariely’s Upside of Irrationality, and I would recommend it as a read. He states that since humans are so quick to adapt to new situations, both good and bad, it is much better to make changes that we might perceive as difficult or bad all at once so that we have only one adaptation to make. Positive changes should be made in little amounts so we appreciate them more.
It’s counter-intuitive, I know – but food for thought.
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This one is so dependent upon a person’s personality that there can be no hard and fast rule. My husband is much more of an all or nothing guy, while I’m an incremental changer.
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I like this advice – I have also seen research that we feel pain more keenly than pleasure. Therefore, we should lump all painful things together, and “pull off the bandaid all at once”. We should then stretch out all pleasurable things as long as possible.
Good luck! Enjoyed the post.
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Another reason to do things one at a time is because I want to research each decision in the limited time available to me. But this idea is interesting! I’ll keep it in mind.
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Congratulations, Honey! I’m glad things are going well.
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Congratulations on paying down your credit card debt! I’ve been quietly rooting you on in the corner since your first post and I’m glad that I can stand up and cheer for you now that you have been able to show some progress.
I also am a fan of the idea of making one change at a time because learning to responsibly manage finances is hard enough without trying to change everything at once, something I’m trying to teach myself these days.
I really hope all the nay-sayers who seemed to have a disproportionate amount of ire towards you and your posts can step back for a minute and see that it’s only been a short amount of time since you’ve been reporting on your financial journey and give you the appropriate respect for your progress, even though it may not be in the manner or time frame they think it should be.
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I’m one of the naysayers and IMO, other than reducing the cost of insurance and hair styling, this isn’t progress. She used two windfalls to pay off her credit card debt. If she had managed to save an extra $200/month and used that to pay off her credit card debt, I would be much more impressed. That said, I’m happy for her that she chose to use her birthday present wisely instead of going out and buying a new dooney & burke handbag, that proves that she is learning something from this adventure.
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But now she’s got $200 extra each month to put toward other financial goals. That’s what she was paying each month on her credit card. She’s miles ahead of where she was.
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I disagree. She examined her bills and researched the consequences eliminating the whole life (none really) and canceled it to reduce billing by $40 a month plus a $1500 refund. Doesn’t get rich slowly ask us to do just that thing? The birthday gift was a windfall but she did the right thing with it.
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Congrats Honey!
What are you going to do with that credit card? Are you going to cut it up,cancel it, hide it, or leave it in your wallet?
When we killed our unsecured debt in 2007 ($55,000+) we cut up the credit cards and when they were paid off we cancelled them. Now since then, we do have a credit card that we use for travel and once in a while for a large expense if we need extra protection (but we always save up the cash in advance). Mr. Sam doesn’t have a credit card because, while he is not a spendthrift, he just cannot avoid spending money that is available to him.
I think you have to figure out if you are an abstainer or a moderator. For me, I can carry a credit card and have no interest in using it, just like I can eat one cookie a week from a bag in the pantry. My husband, on the other hand, would eat the whole bag of cookies.
When it comes to making changes I have found that for me it takes about 4-5 weeks for a new habit to take root, once you’ve got one change under your belt then you add a second, etc.
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That credit card is my oldest (I think it may be the first credit card I ever had) and the limit is really high – $15,000. So I’m not going to use it but I’m not going to cancel it either.
I’m totally an abstainer.
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We have our credit cards frozen in a block of ice in the freezer. Cliche on a personal finance site and a little bizarre in real life, it’s been working for us. We really don’t want to use them, and it’s more trouble to melt the block of ice than make dinner (going out to eat on a whim is one of our biggest downfalls). We also each have ING cards tied to our savings accounts, and keep those in a drawer at home. That way we have to plan for our expenditures and can’t purchase on impulse, but they are still available to us.
Just a thought as you observe your behavior and consider what will work best for you.
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Ha! I had mine frozen in the freezer for years before I felt secure enough in my ability to cash flow emergencies to cut them up! Love it!
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I could go for a month without spending any money on myself, but a bag of cookies in the cupboard? I could eat the whole thing in one sitting! Isn’t it funny how people are so different?
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Hi Honey,
Good progress, and keep it up. Can you also provide an update to your husband’s CC debt?
***This was the last update:
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2012/06/26/the-reckoning-or-what-mint-revealed/
Debt 1: Pentagon Federal Credit Union CC, $12,935.83 @ 0%
Debt 2: BoA CC, $8,311.35 @ 0%
Debt 3: First National CC, $2,838.37 @ 0%
Debt 4: Discover CC, $2,075 @ 0%
Debt 5: Chase CC, $1,500 @ 9.9% (this is a loan to the business to cover his partner who was short, it should be repaid this month before any interest accrues)
***
Imo, you should view both you and your husband’s debt as one to give you a complete picture.
Thanks,
CW
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I agree. I don’t know if she’d feel like it’s the airing of laundry, but I’d almost like a summary of what the balances were last month and what they are this month for both of them at the end of each post. I enjoy reading the progress in the assassinate student loan debt thread in the forums. Of course, it it mentally weighs her down, might be a bad option.
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I am not going to be writing posts about his debt until he is on board with the idea of a budget and us pooling our efforts to pay down debts together.
However, I logged into his Mint and he’s paid off just over $3500 in credit card debt and just over $500 in his auto loan.
He also talked to his CPA about whether quarterly taxes were mandatory (surprise! I was right, although sadly I was unable to get him to phrase it that way!). He’s scheduled to make the September 15 quarterly filing deadline and will be paying for not just the second quarter, but also making up the first quarter that he missed. I think his CPA said he could expect a penalty in the neighborhood of $50, since that’s the only deadline he’s ever missed.
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I’m greatly relieved to hear that he “asked an expert” and is now convinced to pay his quarterly taxes. It is much better that he found this out now, rather than years from now (and ended up owing thousands in penalties and interest).
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I knew someone who landed on the odd world of tax liability mitigation. The company he worked for were tax consultants that people hired once they were millions of dollars in the hole. These were often self employed boses who did not do quarterly filings. The more employees you have the bigger the blow.
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Amen Honey! I really enjoyed your decision to balance debt repayment with living your life. Lately, GRS has turned into a contest on how much self-deprivation can be endured – get rid of your pets, grow your own food, never eat out ever ever! I want to live the best life I can while responsibly paying down my debt. I look forward to seeing you reach your goals.
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Honey – this is awesome progress! Great job! Doesn’t it feel so wonderful to get rid of that awful cloud above you?
I hope you pull this momentum into the future to help you continue to keep this “snowball” rolling. Little sacrifices now can really add up. I bet you won’t even feel the change in the life insurance policies. Do that again for cable, cell phones, what have you, and you’ll be amazed at how quickly you can become free!
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Good job on the credit cards. I know for me getting rid of those felt so good and was a major confidence booster on the road to freedom from debt.
I also agree with the long term approach on the student loans. Very few people can do the “rice and bean” for years approach and it shows maturity to know that you aren’t able to tackle the debt that way. As long as you don’t add new debt (like a mortgage) and just see it as something you’ll pay for the rest of your life, you’ll survive. I agree with the poster above that we shouldn’t make extreme self deprivation the goal – life is about more than a balance sheet.
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Congratulations on paying off your credit card and reducing some of your annual expenses.
My only concern is that you paid off your cc debt because of the two windfalls that you received. What are you doing to reduce your monthly expenses so that you can continue along this path in the future, for example to pay off your student loan debt?
Are you helping your husband to pay off his debt or are you doing this separately? Personally, my husband and I view our debts as joint debt, so we just finished paying off his student loans this month (yay!!) and are about to start paying extra on mine to hopefully have everything paid off in 2-3 years (we prioritized based on interest rates, the debt snowball method).
Lastly, I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but how much do you spend at the bagel shop? Do you go every day? Can you reduce this habit to 2-3 times/week or if you go 2-3 times/week, reduce it to once a week? You’d be surprised at how much something like a bagel or starbucks every day adds up!!
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I noticed the bagel comment too, and I think she could save a few bucks this month without it being a huge change. But, she wants to make small changes. She needs to do what works for her to make it last. Sadly, I consider saving money/paying off debt a lot like losing weight. The extreme diet will get you there faster, but likely is not sustainable. You need to find a system that works for you and stick with it.
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Assuming that she goes to the bagel shop for bagels not coffee, all of the bagel shops around here sell their day old bagels for a fraction of the cost of the previous day.
Fresh bagel with cream cheese = $2.10
Weekly cost of fresh bagel = $10.50
Bag of 1 dozen day old bagels = $2.00
Container of cream cheese from bagel shop = $3.00 (assume 2/week), so $6.00
Weekly cost of day old bagels + topping = $6.83.
Net difference = $3.667/weekly at minimal effort.
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I don’t think $3.66 a week is really worth the bother of changing an enjoyable habit.
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To say nothing of the fact that the day-old bagels will be pretty stale by the end of the week.
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Meika, I think it depends on your perspective. In my case, I pay for my own treats (such as bagels) out of my monthly “fun money” of $50/month instead of our household accounts. For me, saving $3.66/week would be worth it. Also, I prefer toasted bagels so the stale thing isn’t an issue. I bring them home and pop them in the freezer. Defrost as necessary.
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My bagel addiction waxes and wanes. Actually it is not really the bagels I am addicted to – OMG JALAPENO CREAM CHEESE!!! I’ve never seen that flavor at the supermarket and they don’t package that flavor at the bagel shop (even though they package EVERY OTHER FLAVOR in tubs to sell).
At this point my wallet and waistline are in agreement, and my bagel buying is restricted to once a week at most. I find the best way to combat the Urge to Bagel is to buy something yummy to put in my instant oatmeal, like fresh raspberries. They are soooo tasty and go bad so fast I have to use them right away!
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Why not try making your own jalapeno cream cheese? I googled and found a ton of recipes that all sound super simple.
http://www.food.com/recipe/jalapeno-cream-cheese-435457
http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,191,154170-226203,00.html
http://www.yummly.com/recipes/jalapeno-cream-cheese-spread
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flavored cream cheese is the biggest cost saver I’ve ever found to make homemade – I like salmon flavored, and we can get smoked salmon trimmings at the meat counter of our coop for super cheap, so making it at home means getting 8 ounces for the cost of 2 ounces at the bagel shop. Veggie cream cheese is even cheaper.
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Have you asked at the bagel shop if they are able to sell you a container of it? Maybe it isn’t one of their bigger sellers, so they think it isn’t worth packaging, but could do a special package for you.
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Honey, GOOD JOB on killing that debt! It’s such a great illustration of how killing one debt really can snowball – you cut out a $46 expense, had the self-control to throw on top two windfalls, and now you have freed up a $250 a month expense?! Wow. Dave Ramsey was right!!
You mention looking for good toppings for oatmeal. The very best place to go for inspiration: Kath Eats Real Food, her tribute to oatmeal (http://www.katheats.com/kaths-tribute-to-oatmeal). My personal favorite adaptation was cooking a banana in (it melts away into the oatmeal and is naturally sweet) and top with a few chocolate chips or toffee ships. Melted peanut butter is awesome too. Mmmmmm!!! Personally, I love the Lavish chocolate oatmeal with flax seeds (best texture out there, and mmmm), but it’s not available everywhere and Amazon gouges you.
Honey, with this kind of dedication to killing your debt, you’re gonna convert the haters to lovers! Oh wait, that opposite doesn’t work quite as well as I had hoped…
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Congratulations on paying off that credit card debt!
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Congrats on paying off the card! I actually love applying windfalls to my debts now, more so than just wasting them on junk.
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Congrats on paying off your credit card! Now take at least $100 of that extra each month and apply it to the next debt
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Great update! Having that account at zero is really a nice feeling.
I would second the person who talked about not using the CC’s at all. I realize some people do so for points or rewards and pay off at month’s end, but I would take a break at minimum just to work on a total cash (or debit card) basis.
We cashed out a whole life policy as well years ago (needs changed and employer options more than made up for the coverage).
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Yeah! I like your tone at the end. Thata girl!!!! Go gett’em and hold that head high. The shedding of debt is making you lighter and this experience is making you stronger.
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Congratulations!
Today, I sent in the last check for the smallest of my three student loans. Paying it off was a birthday present to myself.
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Congratulations to you too!
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Thanks! Now I can snowball that monthly payment into the biggest of my loans — which also has the highest interest rate.
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Yay, William!
I am going to sit on this for a week or two before deciding what to tackle next, but I’ve got my eye on you, teeny tiny unconsolidated student loan balance of $5200!!
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Honey — I think giving yourself some time to think is absolutely reasonable. For me, I’d decided to snowball into the next loan months and months ago — but then, i had it scheduled, to the month, when I would pay it off.
In about 5 more years, I should have the next one paid off. ugh.
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I’m always saddened by the amount of student debt many people are dealing with. Dealing with that seems like a nasty slap in the face as a reward for completing your education. I realize costs vary widely between programs and countries. Here in Canada our post secondary educations are heavily subsidized, which I don’t think most realize, and therefore don’t appreciate. They still gripe about the cost when if fact it’s quite reasonable compared to the US. We are fortunate to live in a city with multiple universities and colleges. Chances are you can find the program you want locally and continue living at home. No you don’t get the dorm experience, but you also don’t rack up additional costs. Our son is in his second week at college in a 3yr Graphic Design program. His tuition/books/software/art supplies will be about $8k/year, and we had to get a Mac laptop ($3k one time). Total for his three year program $27k. We’ve decided to split the costs and each cover half. He’s paid his portion of first term tuition and supplies and has already saved most of his second term costs. All done on a 2 shift/wk pizza delivery job. I see absolutely no reason he’ll incure any debt while at school. I created a spreadsheet of all the expected fees, due dates and what portion each of us was responsible for. He made an envelope with a date and amount for each item. He keeps $100 of fun money in case he wants to go out with friends, but otherwise all his PT job funds go into the envelopes. We haven’t talked yet about what to do with his earnings once this year’s fees are all set aside. Personally I’d just start right in on 2nd year fees, but that’s me. He may prefer to temporariy spend on a little fun or upgrade some of his snowboarding equipment this winter.
Graduation is still a long way off but he is already thinking he’ll want to live at home for a year after starting to work, just so he can save enough that getting a car and his own place doesn’t put him in debt. He seems to have grasped at 18 that if he doesn’t have the money in hand for something, then he really can’t afford it.
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Am I the only one curious about what disease it is? My husband has early-onset Alzheimers in his family, and we know that he stands a strong chance of being diagnosed with it in the future, but we’re not quite at the point where we’re ready to make accommodations for it in case he is.
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I am simply curious whether this is a disease whether she can get tested to see whether she will get it or have increased risk to get it. I know some might not want to know, but I would want to know for planning purposes.
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Apparently the vast majority of people at risk of diseases similar to what it sounds like Honey is discussing choose not to get tested (while most people who aren’t at risk say they’d like to know).
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That reminds me of an episode of E/R in which a patient is diagnosed with Huntington’s disease. He has a daughter who has a 50/50 chance of having the same disease. His doctor advises that he should tell his daughter this. He says he absolutely will not tell his daughter. He says his own father also didn’t tell him and he is vastly grateful for this. His doctor is upset on behalf of his daughter and feels strongly that the daughter has a right to know and make her own mind whether to be tested for the disorder. Ultimately, I believe the doctor respects the privacy policies and bites her tongue.
My boyfriend and I both had immediate and strong reactions to this, upon watching it, but they were very different reactions. I thought for sure I would want to know and that I would want to be tested but he felt that he would not want to know or to be tested.
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First of all, the potential diagnosis is none of our business. Secondly, in this electronic medical record age if she establishes a certainty of diagnosis through testing she opens herself up to potential discrimination particularly in the field of employment. Those records become open to all kinds of entities who will not necessarily notify her of their interest, such as insurance companies. In addition, if she elected not to have natural children, but to adopt I doubt if she would seriously be a candidate. If it were me and I wanted testing I would probably insist on anonymity and do it on a cash basis. In other words, the consequences of testing can be far more than simply being able to plan for life, and those consequences may be quite unintended.
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This.
It is not like having the breast cancer gene where if you test positive you are at higher risk. A positive result means a Pre-Symptomatic Diagnosis, with all sorts of unintended and unpleasant ramifications.
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Thank you for the “it’s none of our business” comment. It never fails to amaze me, the sort of very personal details some of the readers here seem to feel they have every right to know about columnists and commenters. It goes far beyond the sort of details that illuminate a financial situation under discussion.
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It’s not just pen writers out on the internet that people get overly-curious about. Medical records, under Federal law, are private and confidential. (Technically parents aren’t required to tell the public school system about any of their kid’s medical conditions if they don’t want to, or don’t feel that it would be to the kid’s benefit.)
I once met someone with a rescue dog who noted that it was shocking how many times people would DEMAND that she tell them why she needed dog because she clearly wasn’t blind.
I think that while we’re all curious, it’ll just have to remain classified as ‘mysterious, rare illness that can be quite serious.’
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Oy. Thank you for spelling out the ramifications of getting tested for genetically inherited diseases and conditions. I’m adopted and we don’t have any information about my birth family. Every time I think about getting tested I wonder about who would have access to my results. I haven’t gotten tested simply because I don’t want some strangers to know that much detail about me. But, your post has really spelled out what can happen and now I’m definitely decided against getting tested.
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WOOT! Congrats on a great milestone! I’m so excited to keep following your story.
I often like to think of windfalls as pleasant surprises that allow me to tackle debt faster. Like you, I put gift money to my loans because that is what makes me happiest and gives me the most peace of mind. So excited to see what’s next for you. Keep up the good work!
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Congratulations, Honey. I’ve been reading these posts and thinking about my family’s progress (or lack thereof).
One of the things that is very frustrating is to find yourself wondering “when does the deprivation end?” I find that a deprivation mentality puts me into a penny wise and pound foolish situations (like the contributors who claimed that perhaps failing to arrange for home repair was frugal rather than setting herself up for big bills down the road).
Though my family is close to being out of debt entirely and has an emergency/big bills fund, I still feel like we’re living month to month as I have done all my life. You have to stop and celebrate each achievement as you go!
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Congratulations on paying off your credit card debt, Honey! It’s great to see how your assessment of the insurance policies resulted not only in the reduced insurance expense, but also led to a major win with the credit card!
I have mixed feelings about your last paragraph, however, because, on one hand, I am disappointed in your lack of drive to be more aggressive with debt repayment if you can (that is, if you’ve saved cash for a bunch of wants, you plan to buy wants rather than pay down loans), but on the other, I can’t honestly put myself in your shoes of knowing that health risk. So, maybe I can at least understand your prioritizing of enjoying life over debt repayment.
In the end, I think you show a good sense of maturity by deciding to apply the whole life insurance proceeds directly to debt repayment.
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I’ve been a reader of GRS for over a year and this is my first comment. I like to read in the shadows because that’s my temperment and I love to observe. I find it interesting that since Honey received a lot of judgements and berating previously, the one “negative” comment was pounced on by others with “kudos” and “great job’s”. I find it to be the “mob” mentality in the other direction. It’s like “oh no we have to protect Honey”. It is all quite amusing to me. Anyhoo, I really appreciate Choo’s comment. Great questions!
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Thank you. I would have appreciated if she answered all of my questions and not just the softball one about bagels.
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This just totally redeemed Honey in my eyes! I LOVE hearing how people apply their PF knowledge. I agree that it shows great maturity, and I’m super happy for her!
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Honey, congratulations! Getting an old debt paid off is an accomplishment. To me, it doesn’t matter if it’s with a windfall or through savings; if anything, I agree with those who said it shows maturity to use your windfalls that way instead of buying Stuff. It still discharges a debt and frees up some monthly funds towards your Debt Snowball.
I agree that this is your best post yet. Keep up the good work; you are on the right track! Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Woohoo! Congrats, Honey! And thanks for the great read
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You were wondering about your changing car insurance rates. I have a friend who works in the insurance business. He told me that the price can change because the insurance company calculates insurance based on drivers with your same make, model, and year of car. So if you drive a 2005 Civic, and 05 Civic owners get in a lot of accidents that year, your rate will go up, even if you did nothing wrong. On the other hand, if 05 Civic owners stayed out of trouble, your rate will drop.
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You go girl! Very smart, well thought out, and way to know yourself! Keep up the good work!
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Honey,
Congratulations on making progress on your financial situation! I just wanted to ask if you have any plans for the money you’re not spending on irregular expenses, or if you’re still setting the money aside since some of those categories (like vet expenses) could still change drastically in the last 4 months of the year.
I think you made a really wise move with the insurance.
I’m also curious to see how you’re going to balance paying down debt with “living life.” Are you going to commit yourself to minimum payments? Are you just going to aim at certain loans?
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Kudos, Honey! I’m rooting for you!
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Way to go, Honey! This is great progress.
Now, I was wondering if you’ve completed any legal documents to protect you in the event that your health does fail. Power of attorney, living trust, that sort of thing. And I was further wondering who you have designated as your by-proxy financial decision-maker.
Unless Jake’s attitude and knowledge has changed dramatically in the last month, I would be very concerned about you handing him your finances – incl. funds meant to take care of you if you become disabled. You say in your article that you “don’t want Jake to be responsible for the cost of caring for you.” Well, given your disparate financial styles, perhaps you also should not allow Jake to be responsible for *managing* the cost of that care…
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I’ve been a faithful reader of GRS for quite some time now and I believe Honey has the right idea about cutting her expenses. She has applied the basic principles of debt reduction and continues to rework and rethink her budget. She has found items that no longer serve her purpose and cut them from the budget.
The fact that she had a windfall and has applied it to debt means that she is learning to reduce debt from many angles. I believe she is to be commended for being so transparent as to allow us to view her budget and her debts.
We should respect her decision not to discuss the prospects of a future illness but only to tell us of that possibility in order to show us that there is a need for LTC Ins in her situation. She should be commended for having the foresight to take action in advance and be prepared. Most people would live in denial and not prepare at all.
She plainly stated in an earlier post that she would not be discussing her husband’s budget/debt – or lack there of – until a later date when she was able to better understand it. Many marriages survive very well without combining money and debt. If Honey and her honey can make it workout for them, be happy for them and encourage them.
What could she have done to make the post more interesting? She could have totaled the amount she will be saving each year and how she intended to apply it to debt or to improve her everday living.
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Oh, my, you poor delicate flower who can’t “overwhelm” yourself with changes. You’ve over-indulged for years and have been living a life of luxury (which most Americans think is normal so they don’t even recognize luxury), and I suggest you keep cutting and not start focusing on even more luxuries yet as you outlined at the end of your post.
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You have no idea what else Honey has and had going on in her life. Imagine just having a 50/50 chance of a lethal disease. Imagine having lost your mother at a young age. Imagine a whole host of things that this “delicate little flower” may be coping with.
On the bright side, she isn’t a jerk…
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Way to stay classy, Margot.
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Unfortunately I think some of the posters from the Simple Dollar have migrated onto here.
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I notice a few things in the post that I would like to point out and comment on.
A basic principle in making progress is to accept where you are and establish a path to get where you want. Honey seems to be doing that well. I have noticed lately that acceptance of that point is missing in the comments.
Another item to consider is that paying off student loans can take a long time. Being honest with yourself on what you are willing to do to payoff the loans, when you are talking several years is reasonable. While I am willing to live like a monk for a short time to reach a goal, I am not willing to do that for years. I agree with Honey on this one. I have found that a simple life that I like within my means for 30+ years since college has left me in as good a position as the folks who created their own stress to scrimp and save every penny.
Now for the bagel comments. We all have small indulgences that we enjoy for whatever reason. So I feel that pointing out Honey should give up her bagel to save even more money, when she wasn’t asking for advice on where to cut back a little sanctimonious. I notice that when someone talks about large items, such as travel, cars, books, etc. the commentators do not pounce on it.
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I have to agree with the end of your post about balance and your 50% chance of disease. ( just do not let cc debt creep in)
My husband has metastatic melanoma and all life and financial decisions we make have to have a good outcome for about 4 different life scenarios to be considered:
(1)He lives 5 more years with out much complication and a fair amount of medical expense.
(2) He lives 5 more years with alot of medical expenses.
(3) He lives 20 more years due to new clinical trials, experimental drugs and future FDA approved drugs.
(4) He dies next year.
It is so unpredictable that you just have to keep a nice balance and take it day by day.
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Congratulations on paying off your credit card!
I liked the part about making changes incrementally… I have to do that with just about everything! LOL Break each goal down into little bitty ones and tackle one at a time. Getting things done a little slower is still much better than getting overwhelmed and not getting them done at all.
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I haven’t had an opportunity to read all the comments, but just wanted to jump in. I’ve been pretty hard on Honey in her previous posts. I’m smiling after reading this one. Yay, progress! Balance is good. Best wishes to you on your journey, and I hope you stay healthy for many decades to come.
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Bravo, ma’am! Congrats!
Also:
This is comedy gold.
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Honey, I wish you the best. I think that everyone should weigh the future with the present. Life is delicate, whether or not there is a genetic disease you fear. I have unfortunately experienced the unexpected loss of several young people in my family and friends. Those experiences have taught me to appreciate every day. We never know how long we will be here.
On the other hand, we could be here a very long time and we need to plan for that too. I think that you are working toward a good balance. However, now that you have an additional $200 per month, I suggest that you use most of that toward improving your financial footing. Maybe keep $10 of it to satisfy your jalepeno cream cheese thing and apply the rest to debt or savings. My fear is that by saying that you have that much more cushion in your budget that it will just get wittled away.
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Thanks! I will definitely be using some/most of the money to improve my situation, I just need to strategize how to best accomplish that.
And now, in honor of your honoring my flavored cream cheese addiction, a joke:
Q: What do you call a nosy pepper?
A: Jalapeno business!
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LOL! I’m ashamed at how long it took me to get that. Allupinyo business. Love it.
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“I applied the cash value of my life insurance policy to my balance as soon as the direct deposit cleared, bringing the total balance to $517.72.” <– Woah!! This is the smartest thing I think you've written her so far. Good job!!!
You had me really scared and angry with the start of your second-last paragraph, but reeled me back in at the very last second with, "I’m going to pay for these things with cash…in advance." Well learned!
..And that a policy is NOT an investment. It is never an investment.
I think you've very well on your way and the further you fix things, the more you'll want to fix them. The mentality of saving, paying off debt, and being frugal is a snowball in itself in peoples' minds who catch the bug.
Hopefully, as MMM says, you'll soon graduate the ranks a little more and learn that "Debt is not something you 'work on'. It is a HUGE, FLAMING EMERGENCY!!!"
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Oh, and for now–CUT UP THAT DAMN CREDIT CARD YOU JUST PAID OFF!! Cut it and burn it, and stomp the ashes into the ground, throw the mess into a lake, and never, ever, ever think of using is again until everything else is paid off in full.
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She might well need that credit line for medical expenses later, particularly as insurance companies are really stinky about paying for lifesaving care.
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Ugh, debt is not a HUGE FLAMING EMERGENCY unless you want it to be. Your house being on fire is a HUGE FLAMING EMERGENCY. Debt is something you decide how to deal with based on a comprehensive plan and framework for your life. Jesus, personal finance bloggers can be so frigging smug sometimes, and the early retirement crowd smugger than most.
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It’s when people get all lackadaisical about debt that they get themselves into trouble. If you’re a) trying to pay off debt or b) trying to “get rich slowly”, not paying off consumer debt immediately is downright stupid.
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And yet this post is about how she just paid off her consumer debt, so clearly that’s not what the poster above me is talking about.
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One of the main reasons I read this site is to remind myself of how nasty and judgmental people can be while AT THE SAME TIME others celebrate progress, no matter how small. Hope you are not letting the trash talkers get you down, Honey. After all, as I commented on El Nerdo’s post about his phone, EVERYTHING you do will violate SOMEONE’s idea of smart/stupid.
And I am amazed that you were crucified yet again about legal vs. moral when your post on responsibility already covered that. Indeed, that post explained quite well why so much trash talk occurs on various posts. One person comes from a legal paradigm, while another comes from moral, and yet another comes from the social slant. Of course they dont agree.
Anyway, if I ever start a blog, I will make sure comments are turned off. “A barrell of wine with a spoonful of sewage is what? Sewage.” And while many comments are indeed wine, it’s so hard to put up with the sewage.
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Way to go! That does feel nice!
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It’s great to have an update. This is the kind of article I like to read on GRS. Perhaps, I’m a bit voyeuristic but I like the opportunity to peer into someone else’s financial life and see each small step they take.
I think that some of the other commenters here want to put GRS writers up on a pedestal and say you can only write if you are a financial whiz that does everything perfect. I dig that you make missteps some times and write about that too – I can relate to that.
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Woot! Sounds like you have a great plan ahead of you. Keep it up!
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I wish I could just cut off all my credit cards and just not spend…. I don’t think i will ever be out of debt with my spending habits.
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If the J.D. and the new owners of GRS were smart, they would make Honey the new “voice” of GRS. Make her the central contributor, buoyed by the staff writers. She brings what made this blog successful in the first place – forget about recycling old J.D. posts to maintain the “voice”, it is literally right in front of you with Honey.
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Please, Sweet Zombie Jesus, no.
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They’d have to rename the site to “Get out of debt… very very slowly.” Not that there’s anything wrong with that… It’s not my desire to live paycheck to paycheck forever (I like to see projects finished asap) but some/most people don’t seem to mind.
Honey, you might like the book “How to get what you want in life with the money you already have” by Carol Keeffe. From the book:
“It’s critical to remember that managing money is not about budgets or percentages. The crux of money management lies deep inside of each of us in what we value. Once we get a strong grip on our passions and dreams, we begin to feel a sense of purpose. When our heart soars at the thought of what we’re doing, then we know we’re on the right path – we’re energized, engaged, and eager to put time and love into whatever it is.”
For the people who find FI-RE people smug, so do I sometimes. I think it’s hard to remember sometimes how much some people value freedom (more of a future orientation) vs. how some people value enjoying today or status or adventure or ____. Spending priorities and differing opinions about them are always about values. As long as it’s not hurting anybody else, who cares? But I’d rather waste my time teaching my own (positive net worth) children about money management.
I just think that this site is not living up to the title anymore. Maybe it never did. Get out of debt blogs are a dime a dozen out there I’ve heard: http://financialuproar.com/2012/09/05/whats-the-point-of-all-this/
Anyway, congratulations on the windfalls Honey.
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