Ask the Readers: Do Your Morals Cost You More?
Published on - September 21st, 2012 (by Ellen Cannon) This is a guest post from personal finance writer Gwendolyn Pearce.
I’m considering building a chicken coop.
I’m thinking about this choice because paying over $5 for a dozen eggs seems ridiculous. Especially when compared to the carton of bleach-white generic eggs beside them for $1.04. But I take the $5 eggs every time because they are free-range and organic and (despite the debate on whether organic is actually better) I feel they are worth the price. I’m willing to pay five times the amount because I can’t stand the idea of chickens crammed together so tightly that they can’t move. I want my eggs to come from chickens that scratch and run and chase each other. Happy eggs come from happy chickens, right?
Hippie mysticism aside, buying cruelty-free products is a value for which I’m willing to pay more. But do I have to pay more? Is there a way to lower the cost so I can have my moral cake, er, soufflé, and eat it too?
Even if I used mostly found materials, my father-in-law’s carpentry expertise, and my sweat labor, there is still, at minimum, the cost of chickens and feed. Not to mention the time commitment and the entire other discussion about possible chicken vet bills. Is this really any way to go about saving money? No, it isn’t. My romantic notion that I could construct a chicken coop in the backyard of my suburban home, be knee-deep in eggs and have it be cost-effective was quickly dispelled by all my research.
So, I accept that this is an area where I have decided to pay the price that aligns with my values. I stopped complaining about the price of the eggs and embraced that I am making the conscious decision to spend my money in this way.
But let’s take a look at another area of my life where my moral values regularly affect my pocketbook.
In 2010, Americans spent $33.3 billion (or 6.7 million cartons of free-range eggs) on cosmetics and beauty products. So, compared to what one could spend on department store cosmetics and fancy beauty creams, I didn’t really worry too much about getting in and out of Target with all my products for just under $60. For this amount, I would have a three- to four-month supply of face cleanser, moisturizer, toner and night moisturizer and a small handful of cosmetics that easily lasted 6 months. But then, I began doing research on companies that conduct animal testing and discovered that, if I wanted to stick to my moral guns, I wasn’t going to be able to shop the cosmetics aisles at Target or Walmart very easily. There are a couple of good options, such as Burt’s Bees, Alba and Yes To Carrots, but I would certainly be paying more than I was paying and I wouldn’t have near the selection.
How much more? Here’s a cost breakdown of the products I would buy to convert my cosmetic collection from traditional to cruelty-free products:
(Note: all product comparisons are for the same amount of product)
Before
Facial cleanser: $4.38 for 5 oz.
Toner: $5.39 for 7 oz.
Day moisturizer: $10.88 for 2 oz.
Night moisturizer: $14.67 for 2 oz.
Foundation: $3.92 for .28 oz.
Eye shadow: $10 for a palette of 4 colors
Mascara: $9 for a .3 oz. tube
After
Facial cleanser: $10
Toner: $13
Day moisturizer: $15
Night moisturizer: $18
Foundation: $27
Eye shadow: $30
Mascara: $18
It would cost me a grand total of $131! More than double the amount I was paying for the same amount of product. I think 118% is a high “trying-to-be-a-better-person” tax. If every decision that I make from a principled place instead of a fiscal one will cost me an additional 118%, I’ll be broke in two months.
Since most of these cruelty-free products center around natural ingredients, this had to be an area where I could find some creative solutions to uphold my value but not pay more. Here’s how I ended up (I’ve adjusted to match the quantities in the original cost out):
Homemade facial cleanser from castor and olive oils: $3.30
Homemade facial toner using apple cider vinegar, water and lemon juice: $0.56
Day moisturizer from store-bought aloe vera gel: $0.66
E.L.F. eyeshadow: $12
E.L.F. foundation: $22
E.L.F. mascara: $3
Night moisturizer: $18 (When it comes to night moisturizer, which has more complicated ingredients, and since I almost flunked out of high-school chemistry, I’m not about to go the DIY route! Nor am I having success finding quality cruelty-free products for less than the original solution. So, I’m adding that one back in at the original cost.)
Grand total: $59.52.
Not only was I able to uphold a value that I have made a priority in my life, I didn’t have to spend additionally to do it.
While I certainly won’t get rich from these decisions, this examination has made me acutely aware of how many consumer decisions I’ve been making on auto-pilot. An important tenet of GRS is to be cognizant of where our hard-earned dollars are going. If it’s a dollar that we’re not saving, then it needs to count for more than a dollar. Now my money counts for something a little more, I buy my supplies and, hopefully, I send a message.
I’d like to hear from the GRS audience: When do your morals cost you more? When has frugality won out and forced you to compromise something you would rather do differently if money was not an issue? What successes have you had in achieving both? And if you have a chicken coop, I want to hear about it.
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I’ll answer the chicken coop part. We do have chickens, but not an actual coop. They go outside during the day and back into the barn at night. (Why did our chickens cross the road? To get to the cornfield on the other side
.) We’ve lost many chickens through the years due to hungry raccoons and a weasel, among other things. We deal with different challenges than large chicken farmers. I love our fresh eggs, but they’re not all they’re cracked up to be.
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I have chickens and ducks, LOTS of them, but only one traditional chicken “coop” which is open in the day, shut up at night. I have a lot of chickens and ducks that are totally free range but, since we have a lot of things like raccoons, foxes, possums, hawks, owls, coyotes, etc., the barns are pretty bare of chickens. The free range chickens and ducks have elected to spend the night in the trees and grounds around the house under the protection of the German Shepherd. Their purpose in life is to provide bug and mosquito control and, when their numbers get too great, we have a butchering and the old roosters go into the freezer to provide German Shepherd with organic dog food and us with chicken that can only be cooked tender in a pressure cooker.
We do not have many old hens. They get broody, hide a nest in a secluded area on the ground, and get eaten by predators if the nest is not in German Shepherd’s domain.
The chickens (and ducks) I use for eggs are in movable hoop houses covered with a tarp for rain protection as well as shade and with roosts and nest boxes inside. Their feed is not organic; I feed a mixture of layer pellets, scratch feed, and oyster shells. Their pens are moved to fresh grass daily (twice daily in the summer) and once daily in the winter (when I’m working). In the winter, I’ll pile up leaves, hay, eggshells, veggie peelings, and other organic matter available on a place in the pasture where I have noted that plants are not growing well, or a future garden spot. A giant compost heap, as it were. Then the penned chickens will be moved there to add prodigious amounts of manure to the compost heap and turn everything over multiple times in search of bugs. When spring comes, the formerly lackluster area grows deep green, tall grass to the delight of the sheep.
When the egg production gets sparse in the hoop houses after about two years, I let the doors open in the day for a week or two so that the chickens can get used to be being even more free range, and the food supply is cut waaay back so that they need to forage much more. At the end of that time, the hoop house is staffed with new hens that have been growing in movable pens on the ground and have just begun to lay along with their favorite rooster from the hatch. (The other roosters go into the freezer.) The former inhabitants are free to seek out their chicken destiny until the chicken reaper comes along.
For people that are worrying about the effect of butchering on the chickens’ psyche, don’t. When we butcher, chickens will come right up and eat the blood draining onto the ground from the hanging carcasses, and will steal bits of entrails from the gut bucket when they’re being cleaned. We’re constantly having to shoo chickens away so that they don’t accidentally fly into the chicken plucker.
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I’m a new chicken owner who has butchered 3 of our very own already this year. (The Year of the Rooster, we are calling it). I gotta say, butchering, the least fun part. I don’t care how dumb they are, or if they will cannibalize, cutting the throat of an animal you raised is not for the faint of heart. I firmly believe its part of the gig. You’ve gotta be able to do it, but mannnnnn…. talk about a chore to procrastinate.
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I took the plunge 2 years ago adding 9 chickens to the suburban backyard and built a chicken coop for them. It was both a moral and health driven decision. I didn’t like all of the issues with contamination in the food chain and I wanted to know where our food really came from and what it ate. Even though we live on 1/4acre I have 10 fruit trees and grow most of the veg we eat. This year, I started growing medicinal herbs, such as lemongrass, lemon balm, calendula, lovage, fennel, marhmallow root, etc so I could make more homemade beauty and healing products. The set up costs are high, but the longer I do this the more the cost will come down. When we get insect stings, we don’t reach for the Benadryl any more, we grab a handful of plantain leaves or use the plantain infused olive oil. I believe we should put fewer chemicals in or on our bodies since there is so much in the environment that we can’t control.
As for morals and spending, I try to buy only American made and for some products only used. I needed a new boiler recently and couldn’t find one that was 100% made in America, parts are sourced from all over the world. Also, I don’t like how much waste goes into landfills. At our local dump, it’s amazing how much stuff gets thrown out. In an affluent community, disposable takes on new meaning. I would rather renew an old piece of furniture, like the mahogany desk that I recently scavenged at the dump, than buy new, but this costs me a lot more in time and supplies than it would to buy it.
I also make a point of buying free trade whenever that’s an option. The problem is that I don’t know how much of that is real.
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The Food Lab tackled what type of eggs actually taste best, with some interesting conclusions:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-cage-free-organic-omega-3s-grocery-store-brand-the-food-lab.html
I eat chicken and eggs (usually not together), but I find live chickens to be gross creatures, and when I saw a free range chicken farm, I decided that wasn’t worth it to me.
I think your makeup analysis is very interesting. Perhaps instead of replacing everything cruelty-free, you could just switch a few things, or stop using altogether. I find too much makeup unattractive, and have no value for mascara and eye shadow (my wife already has beautiful eyes
. As always, do what works for you!
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Our family did an egg test. A few years ago when I was pregnant, we consciously began to purchase eggs from hormone free chickens. In our area, that means either Eggland’s Best or a variety of organic brands. I just went with whatever was on sale or had a coupon (generally Eggland’s Best).
Anyway, two summers ago we went on an extended family vacation. While buying for the trip, we bought the cheapest eggs in bulk that we could find. What a shocker! They were terrible – virtually tasteless to those of us used to eating the Eggland’s Best and orgnanic. The families used to eating the cheaper eggs didn’t notice the eggs being tasteless.
So then we did a real taste test. Eggland’s Best squeaked past the organic eggs, but to a person, the cheap eggs came in last each time.
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And all these eggs were prepared exactly the same by the same person in the same kitchen tools? I usually notice a difference in taste if someone does a poor job preparing my food, rather than the source. I have not noticed a difference in taste by brand or “organic.”
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There are defintly lots of places wehre the taste or quality of an organic (fair trade etc.) product is identical to the generic. But eggs are a very notable exception. Free range eggs have more flavor, and more nutrients – read the omega diet for a very good explanation why. I’m in the same boat – I want free range eggs, and got very close to making a chicken coop in preperation for next spring – then we asked our neighbors what they thought, and well lets just say that we like our neighbors more than the idea of having our own chickens so that ideas is gone now.
On a humorous note – I make gingersnap cookies, and I switched to the fair trade molasses – and I was not very happy with the result – despite my friends insistance that they could taste the ‘lack of social oppression’. I did some research and found that Grandma’s (the brand I had been using before) is amenable to my social concious – they just don’t advertise on the label.
Another case where it ‘paid’ to do the research.
My suggestion for the writer is to find a local free range egg farm – and buy direct. Free range actual just means that the chickens can go outside – not that they do, or that there is anything else but concrete our there. If you know the farm – you’ll know what your getting.
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Bella, I’m glad you brought up the definition of free-range. My understanding is that if the chickens have the opportunity to spend as little as _one hour!_ outside of their cage, the chickens can be classified as “free-range”. Not what most folks picture in their heads when they are paying that premium price. You have got to know where the processor is getting their birds and how the individual farmer(s) treat the birds to know whether you are getting what you are paying for or just getting taken.
That is the very reason I don’t pay extra for organic, free-range, green, or any other buzz word. Some are not regulated as to their meaning and thereby become slick marketing ploys. If I want to know how the stuff I eat is raised, I buy direct from the person raising it. But I grew up on a farm and have a wide network of people I grew up with to source from for food; not an option available to most folks.
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I recognize that voting with your wallet is a valid way to affect companies’ business practices. But I’m curious – those of you that do, do you couple it with socially responsible investing? Otherwise, odds are your investments are in some small amount invested in and profiting from the companies you’re sending a message to by not supporting as a consumer.
This is something I’ve wondered about myself in a total “first world problems” kind of way, with my investments, however indirectly, supporting companies whose business practices I find detestable.
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I think we could all be found to be hypocrites if we look deep into our spending and investment habits. For instance, someone who insists on only buying American-made cars is still consuming foreign oil.
My theory is that we do what we can with what we have and what we know.
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I agree with you. I’ve been slowly making changes to align my spending more closely with my values — and slowly is the key word. I don’t have the time and energy for change all at once and need to adjust my budget slowly to changes in buying habits. And sometimes, it’s just hard. I’ve been eating chocolate bars that are fair-trade or Rainforest Alliance-certified or single-sourced from someplace outside Ivory Coast for almost two years now due to slavery issues in the cocoa industry (particularly in Ivory Coast), but I’ll confess I still wish I could just be lazy and buy any old thing. I have given occasional chocolate-tasting parties to raise awareness about modern-day slavery, particularly in the cocoa industry. After presenting some facts about the pervasiveness of slavery today (in your chocolate, the tomatoes you buy at the grocery store, your rugs, the rubber in your tires, etc. etc.), I remind my guests of the saying, “How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.” I tell them that you have to choose your own bite, and just take that one bite for now, and then when you’re ready, take the next bite. Trying to eat the whole elephant at once is overwhelming, and you’ll give up.
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Wow, I can’t imagine going to a party and having so much guilt forced down my throat. Do your friends enjoy these parties?
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John,
I love that you asked this question. I believe this is an issue that gets put in the “I’m-overwhelmed-by-this-so-I’ll-go-stick-my-head-in-the-sand-and-pretend-it-doesn’t exist” category. And while I do agree with the many mentions here that we do what we can, we should never stop trying to be even better. I’ll be frank – no, I have not aligned my investments with these values. I have two retirement accounts on autopilot, and I fully admit that they could be investing in machinery that debeaks chickens and manufactures the Bubonic plague for fun. Not only do I feel like a rank amateur for not knowing how to go about aligning these investments, but I also question if what I would choose, very simply put, would pay off! The moral question becomes “would you risk your retirement to uphold your values?” I would love to hear how some of you negotiate this territory.
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Because I’m still around Dave Ramsey’s Baby Step 2 in trying to get out of debt, I came late to the investing game. It’s limited to contributing to my employer’s 401K (Fidelity) up to their match (I think 5%).
When I met with the Fidelity rep to set it up, I said socially-conscious investing was extremely important to me. That limited my choices to exactly one package. He said it was not a high-performance one and I wouldn’t make anywhere near as much money as with any of the others. I said I didn’t believe it would make any difference how rich I became if I helped trash the world in the process. He was openly disgusted with my attitude and could hardly hide his scorn. For my part, I couldn’t care less what he thinks of me, I wasn’t put on this planet to please him.
He did mention it was the one investment package that did not have any Walmart stocks.
Frankly, I have no idea how well it performs but I don’t much care. If it’s my only responsible choice through work, then there’s not much point to me looking for another. If I leave it be for another 20 years, there should be something and it will only be one income stream.
I will state up front: does this make me a saint who doesn’t invest or spend irresponsibly? Absolutely not. I agree with #6/Elizabeth: we’re probably all hypocrites to some degree. I still buy chicken mcnuggets. I still shop at Target occasionally. I’ve even bought stuff from Walmart. But I try to make small changes here and there without going broke.
I do now buy free-range eggs from the grocery store, and I buy grass-fed beef – a friend lives near a farm that provides it through a local butcher, and I will buy it from her when she’s visiting (she lives 50 miles away). And I try not to buy crap I don’t need.
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We try, but socially responsible investing is even harder than socially responsible consumerism – big, publicly traded companies are so diverse, there are no clear cut socially responsible choices.
So the bulk of our investment are in big index funds, and then we put some small money into local institutions like cooperatively run grocery stores, wind farms, and bike shops. Luckily the scale where you get “doing well by doing good” businesses is also the scale where a few $1000 makes a difference (not always, though; our food coop failed, making our fancy stock certificate worthless.)
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I find that “socially responsible” investing tends NOT to reflect my values, rather primarily left wing ones overall. So I stick with voting with my spending. This means that I pay $7 for pastured eggs (per dozen) from a local farmer, and buy pastured meat. This is very different than just organic or free-range.
It may not make a big difference to large agricultural firms, but it does make a difference to my in-state small farmer.
If I were to invest in a socially responsible manner, I would buy individual stocks.
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The way I get around the issue of make-up and its cost vs. sustainability is that I don’t wear it at all, except for on special occasions. I figure I’d rather have people be pleasantly surprised when I put it on rather than shocked when they see me without it.
I also don’t color my hair. One day I was bored in church and was looking around at the backs of womens’ heads. I realized that about 75% colored their hair. Why is this? Why can’t we just be happy with the color with which we were born? And this is coming from someone who has dirty dishwater blonde hair. I think of all that cost and the needless chemicals. Plus the time. I’m sure now someone will chime in and say they do it because it makes them happy. That’s all well and good, but I guess I want to ask, “Why?”
I think in large part it is cultural conditioning. Plus we seek ways to give ourselves a pick me up. In theory, these small pleasures are fine, but they certainly aren’t free in terms of cost or time. I’m always amazed when my sister comes to visit that she spends at least an hour getting ready every morning.
My mother-in-law gets her nails done twice a month. That’s another one I don’t get. In my mind, that’s $100 a more a month she could have in the bank. Sure, she can afford it, but….why? Then you are constantly worried they are going to chip. For women, I think the bar keeps getting raised and/or changed. We develop patterns that last a lifetime and in the end cost lots of money.
Or maybe I’m just a hippie at heart. But I wish there wasn’t all this pressure to have sculpted eyebrows, hairless everything, and picture perfect hair. In my experience, the expectation is certainly not coming from men.
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It’s funny. I think makeup is a largely cultural thing in the US. Women in the south seem to wear a lot more of it than in other parts of the country. And while this Philadelphia woman could take an educated guess, I’m not exactly sure what skintoner even is. And I haven’t used a special cleanser for my face since I was dealing with teenage skin. And moisturizer? Maybe you need that if you use a special facial skin cleanser?
Any mascara or foundation I have lasts for years and I’m not kidding. And I don’t feel underly made up as compared to my peers. I pretty much only do full makeup on special occasions – probably less than once per month. That said, since I’ve gotten older, I do look better with a little makeup and so I now make an effort to put something on when I leave the house in the morning. However, if I spend $10 per year on makeup, I’d be surprised.
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Those of us who live in the desert need facial moisturizer – lots of it. And lots of lotion and chapstick and all sorts of things people in more humid climates probably think crazy. (In college I had a humorous time explaining to my Hawaiian roommate that the reason her lips were dry and cracked was because she needed to moisturize them now.)
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I wish there wasn’t so much pressure to look and dress a certain way too. We’re all taught that to look good is to feel good too — and our appearance is tied to our credibility (in the workplace, at least).
Wishing doesn’t make it so, however, and we have to decide how to navigate society’s expectations. We can go against them or we can meet them to some extent.
I do highlight my hair and wear make-up because I’m not blessed with great skin or a hair colour that suits my skin tone and eye colour. I’m single and looking to advance my career, so I’m choosing to play by the rules. (On my terms, of course, as I’ve found cost-effect and time-effective ways to make it work for me.)
I think it’s great that some people can embrace their natural hair colour and love their looks without make-up. I’m still trying to compromise
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I went to my natural color two years ago after coloring my hair almost 30 years. It is a mixture of grey, white, silver, and dark brown. I have been told it’s striking, lovely, awesome and that I’m so brave. I’ve also been been asked numerous times if I was my niece (age 9) and nephew’s (age 12) grandmother. And they know my sister, who at age 52 is 5 years older than me!! Seriously, you think I’m my sister’s mother??!!! But I love the feeling of no longer worrying about my roots and if I’ve colored all my hair or left patches uncolored. My hairdresser told me I am one of only two of his women clients who do not color their hair.
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Amy, you’re a better woman than I am. If I as 47 and being asked if I was my 52 year old sister’s mother, I would run screaming to the hairdresser.
Bless you!
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When I was 45 and helping my 35-year-old sister look for an apartment, one of the people showing us around decided I was her mom. That was certainly disconcerting. (It didn’t even happen when, say, she was 2 and I was 12 and carrying her on my shoulders, but then I probably looked 8 then.) I decided it was because she had braces.
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Obviously Ive come it. ad midnight again. That says, there needs to be a dilineation betwen “makeup” and skin care. Skin care is often what makes it so that you dont need makeup and so that you dont have wrinkles in twenty years.
I wear no makeup other than blusher (one of those people whose cheecks dont get red even if shes outside). However, I do take care of my skin and yes, that means moisture ever single day no matter what (on my body as well, actually), a proper soap that is kind to my skin and even on occasion toner.
Like the commenter below, I have gone completely gray and very short. Some people think Im older, but most of the time that is just because of the gray hair, not because I actually look older, if that makes any sense. Pre-convictions if you will. In my case I have the skin tone to go with pure white and ive been white since 45.
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Barb -
I’m confused how these specific skin care tips will keep wrinkles at bay. I understand that women swear by them, but it seems to be the women who were in the sun a lot or smoked when they were younger that look wrinkled as they age.
I look young for 35. This could change, but I can tell you I do very little for my face. I wash it every other day in the shower with my regular soap and put body lotion on it afterwards. That’s it. My skin looks great. I guess you say this is a function of my younger age. But I’m not convinced. I think women wash their faces far too often. If I don’t wear makeup or get dirty during the day, why on earth would I need to wash my face before I sleep?
Maybe I’m dooming myself to a lifetime of wrinkles, but I also think there is a lot of myths out there pushed by the cosmetic industry. I don’t even wear sunscreen unless I plan to be outside for an extended period. I figure the little I am exposed to the sun during the day while going from place to place is good Vitamin D.
These days we seem to be afraid of our own shadows…or perhaps I should say we are afraid of our aging faces. Probably the best way to avoid wrinkles is to avoid having kids and the stress they bring. This seems to be the thing that ages women’s faces the most
.
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@Jane and Barb — a lot of it is genetic, unfortunately. I do not take after the side of the family that has great skin even though my lifestyle and skin care habits are healthier. Some things are going to work for some people but not for others.
What really drives me crazy is salespeople blaming me for my fine lines and blemishes — attempting to shame me into buying their products. Oy!
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I’m one of those “can’t leave the house without makeup” and will likely start coloring my hair in the next year or so (I’m in my 30s, btw).
I don’t like how I look without makeup. I don’t get done-up like I’m going to a wedding, but I do like to wear something. I think I look haggard without it. I’m also in a profession where you want to convey a hip image – wearing dowdy clothes, long hair that drags on your face and has a lot of gray, and no makeup doesn’t exactly help one’s case.
I do it because I want to look good, and I don’t like how I look naturally. If I look polished, then I feel polished, and that in itself energizes me.
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Megan, not wearing make up doesn’t mean wearing long, unstyled hair, dowdy clothes, and not looking hip.
I’m not the most stylish person but I don’t wear make up and like to wear stylish clothes and prefer to wear my hair short because it’s easier for me to style. I probably use more styling products on my short hair.
I ‘ve always gotten compliments on my “peaches and cream” complexion and I’m routinely mistaken for in my late 20s -mid 30s (I’m 39). I chalk it up to 2 things 1) really good genetics (and no acne) and 2) not wearing make up which saves on “wear and tear” on my face.
I wash my face with water, unless it’s really greasy and then I use a mild olive oil soap. And I use pure aloe as a moisturizer along with Badger Balm for when my skin is really dry.
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While I appreciate what youre trying to say, lets not equate not wearing makup with automatic dowdiness or letting oneself go, shall we? I have very short stylish hair. While i dont have to “dress for success” because I work for myself I am always well put together (in my place that means nice leggings or yoga pants, long tunics or silk tshirts and the appropriate flats and jewelry). I wear lotion, and perfume and take really good care of my skin (and the answer to the two product question asked wherever is that I at least, need a serious moisturizer at nite, while I dont need spf.
Not trying to convince you to wear makeup, just noting that if you do you can still have pretty hair and dress well, loll
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I too am a ‘natural girl’. I don’t wear makeup, I don’t color my dishwater-blonde hair, I had my eyebrows done once and I won’t do it again – my unibrow has character!
That said, I am fortunate in my natural coloring – dark lashes and brows show off my eyes well, and my lips and cheeks are naturally pink and not pale. If I didn’t have these culturally preferred features, would I pay to get them? No way to know. Will I retain my ‘natural girl’ preferences as I age? I hope so, but there’s no telling till I get there.
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This is an excellent point. Woman who have some color to their eyebrows and eyelashes can do with less, or no makeup. Some of us are so pale that we really don’t look so good without it.
I also find that age makes a huge difference. I looked fresh and young a few decades ago. Now,that I’m in my 60s, I feel I look really bad without makeup.
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I have two sisters. We are all naturally pale, but both of the other two have darker lashes and natural pink in the cheeks and lips (one esp). With makeup and/or hair dye, we all have approximately the same ‘strength’ of coloring. But left without a bit of cosmetic boost, I look much less healthy than the other two simply because I’m more or less colorless without it. I wear very little makeup, but without any people tend to think I’ve been ill LOL.
And my mother had vivid coloring until she got older. Between gray hair and a more washed out complexion, she definitely looks a lot better wearing it now.
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I wear light makeup and use a gentle hand with natural colors (not blue shadow here) and not ashamed to admit it. Having hyperpigmentation generally informs that decision for me.
I know its “cool”, almost virtuous when women doesn’t wear it and congratulations to them if they have perfect skin, I just hate the assumption that makeup, hair color, etc automatically means that a woman is a slave to society and we’re free range for criticism.
With that said, I’m a DIY girl. I do my own hair trims, brow shaping (they are very thick) nail color every once in a while, pedicures, and hair removal. The only thing I don’t myself is facials and I go to a school for a very discounted rate.
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I’m another one who doesn’t wear makeup, because it doesn’t suit me. But:
- I’m not willing to Play the Game. If I wore a suit to work and used makeup, I might well advance into a higher-paying position. It is unquestionably a trade-off. Not wearing makeup to work definitely makes me look more casual and less professional.
- I’m blessed with naturally rosy cheeks and lips, my light-brown hair is only now starting to show a few strands of silver (I’m 50), and I wear glasses that obscure how sad the skin around my eyes looks. I don’t think I need makeup.
- Since I’ve never worn makeup, everyone’s used to how I look without it.
- My husband hates makeup and is grateful I don’t wear it. He says he’d rather look at my boobs than my face.
Seriously, he claims he does not know a single man who prefers that women wear makeup. I think the push to wear it is a racket by the fashion industry.
I don’t think I’m particularly virtuous. I just hate wearing something that covers up who I am. The people who criticize me for that aren’t my friends and aren’t important. The people in my life who love me accept this.
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Sorry, but I find that incredibly offfensive that someone would say to you they would rather look at your boobs than your face.
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It isn’t “someone.” It is her HUSBAND!
Mine doesn’t like makeup, either.
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SLCCM,
I was trying to be polite. I think it’s worse thaat her husband said it.
Think about what that means.
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Kudos to you! Whatever works
I don’t think make-up covers up who I am — quite the opposite, actually. I am NOT the dark circles under my eyes or my skin blemishes. I feel my appearance matches how I feel inside when I look in the mirror and those things aren’t the first thing I see.
I don’t wear a lot of make-up and I don’t wear it all the time, thankfully. I’m not trying to don a mask — just make a few improvements, is all!
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Oh, I so agree! I just turned 41, and my 83 yr old grandmother told my mom she was a bit worried that I was showing some gray hair. This is probably because, at 83, my grandmother still dyes her hair brown. So my 41-yr-old gray hair is making my grandmother feel old??? Crazytown! I’ve thought about going back for professional color/highlights, but I just don’t want to spend the money. And I really don’t like the look of home color jobs (sorry sorry sorry), since to me it looks… fake. I just don’t buy it. Literally, I guess! I do buy some skin products, but a lot of that is because the texture and feel of my ultra-oily skin drives me nuts if I don’t use them. It’s all kind of a tossup, I guess, and we do the best we can.
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Coloring my hair is cheaper than botox over the span of a year, and keeps me looking younger. Sorry – with age discrimination the way it is, I gladly fork out the money.
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(tl;dr on chickens – keeping chickens is great but don’t do it to save money)
On the chicken question:
We’ve had chickens for a few years now and after tracking how much we spend on them, I know it’s not a super cheap food option.
In terms of consumables, each egg cost us £0.17 last year (so roughly £2/$3.30 for a dozen, for free-range & happy but not organic eggs) — but that is not including any vets bills (thankfully none so far) or any fixed costs connected to setting up the coop/enclosed run, re-securing the run after an animal attack, and replacing the three birds we lost in that attack. Those things have totalled several hundred GBP£.
We could certainly buy local “happy” (not organic) ones for a similar price but still keep our feathered team because they’re surprisingly fun, not that much effort really and it is lovely to know that they’re VERY fresh and VERY local.
Giving spare eggs away has also generated a lot of good will – and we often get offered others excess produce/goodies in return.
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I struggled with the egg issue – and tried to convice my partner to let me do the backyard chicken thing. The only eggs I could find that I felt good about purchasing were the $4 for a half carton. Then I saw two dozen organic, free range eggs at Costco for $8. I don’t know if the chickens are debeaked or not, and part of me doesn’t want to know because I really like the cost savings. I struggle with cosmetics too, but I read an article yesterday about Whole Foods now carrying organic (hopefully creulty-free) makeup. Yay! I have three biggest guilts: 1. I love a particular dental floss that is manufactured by a company who still conducts animal testing. I try not to buy any products (except this is the only floss I find comfortable to use) from this huge corporation. Sometimes I find out that a product I have been using is somehow still tied to the corporation. 2. I love food from a particular fast food chain that donates profits to organizations I find offensive. 3. I wish I were a vegetarian. I feel I should be, but I’m not ready to make the commitment. It’s even harder when I’m not the cook or grocery shopper of the house. Every time I struggle with shopping decisions of what I want for this world and what’s within my budget, I generally try to decide if I will sleep okay at night knowing I purchased something that was the cause of suffering for a living being. Yeah, it’s a miserable life. Ignnorance is bliss. I just had the thought this morning that it must be excruciatingly difficult to be a good follower of Christ (for those who are) and a politician, and then have to make decisions based on budget. Most notably, those who voted (multiple times) against giving 9/11 first responders healthcare. Or those who are pro-life but anti social programs (for moms and kids). I am trying to wrap my head around that, but just can’t find a way that it makes sense (to me).
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If you’re referring to Chick-fil-a in #2 there, I recently read an article that they said they’ll only donate money to organizations without political agendas. This is in conjunction with the Alderman of Chicago no longer attempting to block them from opening franchises in the city.
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That looks to have been wishful thinking on the part of the Chicago Alderman. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/chick-fil-a-gives-another-statement-amid-gay-marriage-controversy-position-still-unclear/2012/09/20/f6838d3a-0368-11e2-9132-f2750cd65f97_story.html
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> I wish I were a vegetarian. I feel I should be, but I’m not ready to make the commitment.
Then don’t worry about how well you’re doing at it. I try to be vegan and don’t worry about it when I’m not. The result is that with almost no effort, I don’t eat any meat except fish, I only eat fish around once a month, and I only eat eggs when they’re baked into something at a restaurant (I’m still trying to get my cheese consumption back under control). Am I the perfect vegan? Not even close. Am I don’t better than I would if I wasn’t trying? Definitely.
My advice — do what you can and don’t worry about what you can’t.
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I think that is great advice, Brendan.
While I feel I cannot give up meat completely (particularly chicken), I try to eat it less and I feel like that is better than nothing!
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Are you the perfect vegan? No…in fact, you’re not vegan at all. You’re an pescetarian, which is totally fine.
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If you have it, could you post a link or a resource to check what make-up companies are cruelty free? Thanks!
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Hi Barbara,
Here’s where I found good information:
http://www.peta.org/living/beauty-and-personal-care/companies/default.aspx
http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/companiesdonttest.pdf
I’ve noticed that a few of the readers left some great links, as well.
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I wish I were a vegetarian too! I am the grocery shopper and cook in the family, but since the other members of the family are not at all interested in giving up meat, it’s hard to figure out ways to satisfy us all with making two different dinners. My sister (a former 100% raw food vegan who has since turned vegetarian) once called me a “flexitarian” because I eat very little meat and avoid it when I can. I feel guilty sometimes for not being a full-on vegetarian, but looking back I’ve been slowly and steadily been getting closer.
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Umm…Ellen, where do you live? If you live anywhere near Ann Arbor, MI – you can have free free range chicken eggs from my free range chickens
I take them into work and give them away. We don’t even eat that many eggs @ my house…we just like the chickens because they cut down on bugs and are cute and funny. We have duck eggs too.
Anyways, I buy $6.50 free range, non-homogenized milk as opposed to $1.99 Kroger milk. It tastes about 2 million times better and I know it’s coming from free range grass fed cows. 325% difference in price. I’m not even sad about it. Like you, I’m trying to transition into caring about where what I buy comes from…I’m taking a butter/cheese making class at a local farm soon and am probably going to but a half cow for meat rather than buying at our local grocery stores. I also agree with a lot of what indio said. Most of our furniture is heirlooms or homemade barnwood furniture by my husband including our coffee table, TV cabinet, my desk, our bed, etc. People are just too quick to throw things away. He works in an expensive golf course subdivision, and garbage day there is his favorite…we get all kinds of cool stuff off the curb.
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OMG duck eggs! :envies:
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As a non-coop-haver, I really enjoy how many of our friends have extra eggs, and try to reciprocate with what I do have (applesauce, right now).
I buy the super-expensive organic coop milk, because I know a couple farmers who sell through it and want to support their efforts. It’s a hard choice, though – an extra $2 over the other organic milk, even. But I was raised in farmer coop country (Land O Lakes has a factory in my home county) and I know it makes a difference in the places where the farms are, which are not so far from here.
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Ok, this is too weird. I was just browsing the comments (since I was just thinking about eggs and chickens earlier today), and I actually DO live in Ann Arbor, NE side. It isn’t often you see somebody else from the same city on these boards…
I actually go back and forth between the really expensive eggs from the awesome organic farmer that taste amazing ($5.25), and the cheaper organic eggs from a larger co-op ($3.99). So even within the happy animal/organic category there are distinctions…
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Hey, I live southwest of Ann Arbor! ::waves::
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People really use different lotions depending on what time of day it is? I thought that only happened in magazines. The cosmetics industry marketers definitely have impressive skills.
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A lot of day moisturizers have SPF. Why wear sunblock to bed?
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But she wears a foundation every day. Doesn’t that have SPF?
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The SPF is calculated based on putting a certain thickness on your skin. To get the labeled SPF, you have to use 1/4 tsp. of the product for your face, and another 1/4 tsp. for your neck. 1/4 tsp. of foundation will look like it’s spackled on. Foundation essentially offers practically no sunscreen protection because you just don’t use enough.
To the post itself–I don’t know how you define cruelty-free, but if it just means no animal testing, there are tons of affordable options. I love CeraVe skin care (especially CeraVe PM moisturizer, $13 for 3 oz) and it often goes on sale at the drugstore. They also have a great cleanser and a day lotion with SPF. For drugstore cosmetics, Revlon does not test on animals if I remember correctly. And by stacking sales and coupons, you can get Revlon as cheaply as ELF.
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I agree! I am totally out of the loop with all of it! I have ONE FACE LOTION! I cannot imagine trying to keep track of which one I am wearing at a certain time of the day. I don’t think I could keep up with it.
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It’s truly not that hard to keep track of. You use the one that says “SPF” in the morning, and the other one at night.
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Or I can put one on in the morning, work a 12 hour day, come home and take care of my two small children until putting them to bed at 8, work another few hours until midnight…then fall asleep!
I am just a creature of habit. I have used Oil of Olay for probably 15 years. And I have worn the same eye shadow for at least 15 years. I appreciate your advice but I am not a dumb person, just a busy one! =)
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Amy,
Actually, I completely agree with you! Marketing tactics are, well, everywhere. It can be hard to see when you’re brainwashed! That said, I live in the desert of the Wild, Wild West. You cannot get enough moisture here *gulping water sounds*. I use aloe vera gel as a light moisturizer during the day that doesn’t feel gross. I wash my face after my day to refresh myself and I opt for a nighttime moisturizer because I feel the difference in my skin. Plain and simple. (Though using the oil-cleansing method for face wash has actually been helping to cut down on moisturizing my face in general.)
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Assuming you will use moisturizer twice a day regardless, it doesn’t cost any more to have a separate moisturizer for day and night. You have to buy two bottles, but each bottle lasts twice as long.
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I love the nuance of this piece. It’s very easy to say that certain decisions are the most responsible, financially, but so often we leave the moral and social elements out of the discussion.
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For me,it is about making my moral choice (pastured eggs, organic chicken, grass fed beef), and then finding the most frugal way to accomplish it. I do it through my local food coop, Trader Joes, and ordering direct from the farmers (in order.)
But, it is also about not just following the “crowd” or the “movement.”. I looked at beauty products as a way to reduce the toxins in my life, and found that most of the expensive “cruelty free” products still used the chemicals that I wanted to avoid. If I were making the choice on morals, it might be fine, but making the choice on another factor, I have gone to more actual natural products and making my own.
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So I get that cruelty to animals is bad and the article is about the cost of morals.
Yes, morals they do cost you more. In the broad view its the difference of life and death.
Every single pharmaceutical drug and many of the medical devices are tested on animals. And these are done by law (essentially the same laws that regulate cosmetics). But maybe that’s the fine line, Human life?
Weigh in animal lovers!
Oh, and why bring a backyard chicken to the vet? If you have one rooster you could have 10 new chicks in a month. And if you hatch more roosters you’ll probably have to kill them anyway (or give them away).
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“Oh, and why bring a backyard chicken to the vet?”
Because seeing something that you love in pain kind of sucks? I know they aren’t kids, and they aren’t as smart/aware as dogs/cats, but I’m pretty sure most people that like an animal they have doesn’t want to see it die a slow miserable death. I’ve had a chicken killed by a car, killed by a falcon in a particularly harsh winter (then I ate the falcon), 2 have died of what was likely egg-binding, and 2 have “disappeared” (although we did find one of those missing chickens bodies). It sucks. I would have paid to save all of them given the chance.
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First off. You ate the falcon? That is pretty awesome!
My point was, why not just butcher the chicken and eat it? You can easily breed the chickens and have plenty more.
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I must just be the spoilsport who points out that the falcon you killed and ate (which is highly illegal in the U.S. btw and subject to very high fines if you get caught) also was just trying to live.
And yes, I grew up with livestock and we lost chickens and geese and such to foxes, red-tails, etc. And if I raised chickens NOW (which I’m dying to do) I would likely be one of those people who took them to the vet.
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I believe the OP lives in a suburban (or urban) area where usually you’re not allowed roosters because of the noise. Often there’s a limitation on the number of hens. In my city, the number was raised from 3 to 6, I believe. Definitely no roosters.
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You ate a falcon? I must admit, I checked to see if this comment was written by Ron Swanson.
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I have slowly evolved my consumer choices over the past few years to match my values as much as I can. The main lesson I have learned is that in order to live a more moral life I have to change my way of living.
Over most of the twentieth century Americans have developed habits that negatively affect the environment (driving, factory farming), animals (ditto to the factory farming) and their own health (office work, commuting by car, “convenience” foods, etc.) This is not to say that we have not made some major gains too. These changes have developed over generations.
They cannot be undone by buying “green” products that correspond to the harmful, chemical-filled products many of us grew up using. I think the author found an important solution in home-made beauty products, rather than paying bank for “ethical” ones that still use oil for plastic packaging, etc. It is truly amazing though how successfully advertisers have ingrained some of these “needs” into out heads.
I have found this with cleaning products too. I laugh at the notion that some people will shell out $7 for a bottle of Seventh Generation toilet cleaner. My great-grandmother used vinegar, baking soda, and lemon juice to clean the house. Those products cost next to nothing and worked for centuries. I got into an argument with my sister last week in which she insisted that vinegar does not work to clean and bought Clorox green solutions instead. Her reasoning was that it did not foam. Marketing executives have spent the last 50 years convincing us that products need to foam in order to actually clean! They have convinced us that we need to use face cleanser and toner! That we need different moisturizers for night and day!
My point of this rant is that sometimes we have to make our lives look and feel different- and less convenient- in order to really live a life aligned with our values.
I stopped eating meat and, don’t eat meat substitutes, so my meals look different. I bike instead of drive, so I have to plan my trips more ahead of time. I invest in socially responsible mutual funds. I shop mostly at thrift shops, so I can’t get what clothes I want when I want them. I am by no means perfect at any of these things. Just last week I got tired of my six month quest for a tan sweater and went to Target and bought one. As a commenter said above, you have to do what you can.
Trying to make your life more ethical without eliminating any of the convenience of modern products will absolutely cost you more. Making changes in the way you live, like the ones I listed, may actually save you money.
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Yes being moral does not necessarily have to cost so much more than buying the mainstream, environment-degrading, factory farmed products in our supermarkets and drugstores.
Instead of replacing hormone-ridden miserable-life beef and chicken with organic chicken, one can simply not eat meat! How simple and inexpensive. I don’t have exact numbers, but I’m pretty sure eating conventional produce is far better for one’s health and the environment than factory farmed meat (probably better than organic animal products too).
About cosmetics, diet and exercise will do far better wonders for your hair skin and nails than any high end product you find in the drug store, or department store. Switching to a vegan diet and keeping up with strenght and cardio based exercise will make your skin glow.
Keep in mimnd there are no rules. You do not have to classify yourself as Vegan/Vegeterian/Carnivore/Omnivore or what have you. You can take small steps, maybe go vegan for one, two or six days a week.
For all the people who have their own chicken coupes or barns, I commend you. It is better to grow your own food than trust any of the ‘green’ or ‘free-range’ products on the shelf. They’re out there to make money, not abide by ethics. Maybe I’m a cynic but I doubt the chickens raised by those large organic companies hardly lead healthy and happy chicken lives.
It’s a super win for the environment, our animal friends, and our bodies.
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I’m probably the other extreme – if I haven’t bleached the heck out of something, I don’t feel it’s clean. No way I’m spending money on feel good green cleansers – although I will use straight baking soda and/or vinegar if that’s the right product for the job. And I’ll usually try the baking soda/vinegar combo before I reach for the Drano to unclog a drain.
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Clearly Lib you don’t spend enough time reading fashion magazines and catalogs or you’d know there are no such things as tan sweaters. There are sweaters in the colors of caramel, toast, sandstone, beach pebble, warm earth, desert sand, mocha latte, autumn leaves…but no TAN….
:)
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“Trying to make your life more ethical without eliminating any of the convenience of modern products will absolutely cost you more. Making changes in the way you live, like the ones I listed, may actually save you money.”
This. I’m interested in finding out more about using natural products to clean my home (when I actually do clean, ha ha). I like reducing chemicals and saving money; I just need to learn more.
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Finally a great article. It is getting harder and harder to find a good article. This author should become a regular contributor.
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Actually, I really liked the negotiating tips for introverts from a couple of days back.
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The question is: do morals cost you more? That depends. Morals cost less in some cases: we cut down on bottled water by simply refilling from a filtered faucet. Saves money and saves space in the landfills…
Which we fill with paper towels. The missus keeps everything clean and chemicals/landfill be damned.
After a while, it’s impossible to figure what saves and what costs, what’s moral and what’s not. Seth Godin says we tell ourselves stories to make us feel good, and I think he’s right. His example is cotton: cotton abuses the environment far more than synthetic fibers, but because we tell ourselves it’s “natural” we buy it. Then we feel morally superior, even though we’re wrong factually.
So let me go pour some coffee that comes from I don’t know where into a ceramic mug that gets reused over and over again and pound the keys on a computer made in China (I think) while telling myself at least I’m not supporting Apple who abuses people in Taiwan.
I’m reminded of Alfie Doolittle in My Fair Lady (and I know that dates me). He gets asked, “Good God, man, have you no morals?”
“No, Guv’nor. Can’t afford ‘em!”
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That was a good one. Smiles and all seriousness. Thank you.
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This post reminded me of that old adage about real estate: that you can have a lower price, good size or location — but not all three at once! I feel like shopping and investing are the same way because it’s really tricky to balance moral values, price and convenience. You have to compromise some where.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned fair trade items. My parents church only uses fair trade coffee, for example, because it aligns with the church’s values of supporting sustainable projects in developing countries. It’s just one step, but I thought it was an interesting approach.
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When it comes to values, I prefer to support small local business. By no means am I even close to 100% on this but I try to be conscious of it when I can. I mostly stay out of chain restaurants and support local independents. I try to support the local appliance store when needed, as well as home improvement but I do my fair share in the big box stores as well.
My husband and I have also made sure to back our medical bills in full even when we were urged to declare bankruptcy. We took advantage of the services and feel that even though the six figures was overwhelming it was our responsibility to pay it back.
We also made the decision to purchase a foreign brand car because it was being built in our state and supported the workers of our economy.
Money Moral decisions are never cut and dry, especially now since you can not ignore the global economy.
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Those chain restaurants you avoid are purchased by local franchisees and employ fellow residents of your town.
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I know that many of them are franchises (much of my family have taken advantage of the employment opportunities). I also know that they have the buying and marketing power of big business. The independents do not. This gives chain restaurants a huge advantage. In most cases that I have seen personally, so this is anecdotal evidence(I am in the industry), the independent is more quality conscious and treat their employees better. It is just something I choose to support.
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SLCCOM, I’m not sure I follow why you think that local owner, local employees is a saving grace for chain restaurants. It certainly isn’t an advantage. The local indie restaurants have local owners and employees too. And you may very well be mistaken about the franchise owner being “local”. I worked at a pizza franchise in high school. The owner had several franchises in Ohio that were are far as 2 1/2 hours apart. He lived in Pennsylvania and we were near Columbus. I don’t consider that local ownership.
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I actually mentioned in the article about the $8 Target dress that an article like this would be similarly off topic. Hilarious that it showed up right after.
It seems that many of the readers here are in the hippie/tree hugging/no deoderant wearing group. I can’t say that I don’t fall in that group in certain areas (I do love trees, but I wear deoderant). The trouble with a post about social morals affecting purchasing decisions is that it suggests that you are immoral if you make the frugal choice. I like to weigh them carefully. I sometimes buy some organic products, but mostly I am not willing to pay the extra price. I also prefer to buy local when possible and we don’t have organic farms nearby. As another example, with “organic” foods I see the value of eliminating some pesticides, but think that natural fertizers can be very dangerous. Also, I refuse to buy “organic” lettuce because there is always bugs in it that make it impossible to use less than a swimming pool of fresh water to remove them. We make some decisions based on what is best for the environment and our pocketbooks. We drink tap water and use reusable rags rather than papertowels whenever possible.
I live in a rowhome in Baltimore with absolutely zero dirt/grass/yard so chickens would probably be a health risk for our community. I bet the rats would be attracted to the feed too (they eat some of our potted herbs already). Plus I can imagine how loud our neighborhood would be with roosters. Unless of course you kill half the chicks (males). Chickens smell bad too.
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The point I was trying to make above is that sometimes we have to consume less to consume ethically. Instead of buying and $8 dress from a chain we abhor and adding it to a bursting closet, why not spend $100 on one, really nice, vintage Channel dress? I know that is easier said than done.
Why not eat fewer eggs? You can certainly justify paying $6 for a dozen of eggs if you only buy two a year. That means only eating eggs every few months. Buying one $18 bottle of Castile soap and using it to wash your face, hair, body, laundry and floors is also cheaper than buying different products for all of those things. These are sacrifices most people are not willing to make but they are certainly ethical and frugal.
Going to Whole Foods and buying “green” versions of products is certainly not frugal, and with the hidden supply chains may not even be ethical.
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I agree with this somewhat in theory. We definitely try to reduce our use, but I’m not likely to clean everything under the sun with castille soap. I have some, but haven’t figured out what to clean with it actually. I do believe that a little elbow grease goes a long way in cleaning. I prefer good old soap and water most of the time and refrain from anti-bacterials. Occasionally the toilet bowl needs some comet with bleach though.
As for eggs, my husband is a chef and I try not to restrict his creativity. Still, we don’t go through that many eggs, maybe a dozen every two weeks. They are one of my favorite foods though. I love eggs benedict with hollandaise sauce and that takes basically a whole dozen to serve two people
Yum. Plus, I love when he makes ice cream. Again, yum. I understand what your saying, but I think eggs are probably not where we waste or spend most. I’m not willing to spend 300% more for them (feel similarly about milk). I haven’t noticed a taste difference and am skeptical that so many here make that claim.
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Simple solution, good for the neighborhood: Put out chicken feed, capture and eat the rats!
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Jen2- In the large scope of things I feel that this is not off topic, nor is the $8 dress. Money is not just math, there is also psychology involved. The discussion is worth it to make you think about how you treat money, not just what it looks like on your balance sheet. Eventually, how you look at and treat your money will show up on your balance sheet.
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TLDR: There is a lot more to think about in your chicken coop decision than cost-savings!
Time is another factor to consider in the chicken-coop debate. My parents have a small farm with about 10 free-range chickens, and I frequently “farm-sit” for them. Every day, someone has to get up at sunrise to let the chickens out of the coop, or they will start fighting. The coop needs to be cleaned at least once a month, and that is not a fun or easy task! Plus, chickens poop everywhere, so if you let them roam in your backyard, your grass, deck, kids toys, etc will be pooped on. And any flower beds will be dug up!
Some good things about chickens: They will keep the bug population down, which is very nice on a farm with horses. 10 hens yields about 2-4 dozen eggs per week, pretty much year round. (You’ll get less eggs during cold weather.) UNWASHED farm-fresh eggs can be kept unrefrigerated for weeks without going bad.
One last point: “Happy” chickens is a very nice concept, but keep in mind what the reality will be. Some chickens will die a vicious death due to predators. Some chickens could get egg-bound and suffer a lot of pain until it passes. The phrase “pecking order” comes from chickens, and some of your hens will beat up lower-ranking ones. Of course this is all natural and better than a factory chicken’s life! But you need to be aware that it is not all rainbows and butterflies
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And I would add, if you are only buying female chicks, that means a lot of male chicks are being killed.
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This post is a good wake-up call to me, in the sense that I haven’t given much thought to this topic in a while. I’ve spent the past few years trying to just reduce our use of packaging and especially plastics.
The egg example hit home because my parents raised meat and egg chickens (and other small livestock) and had a huge garden, and hunted for meat as well. This has always been an aspiration of mine and I am feeling insane envy at all you chicken owners!
Home grown, free-range chickens (and eggs) are unbelievably better tasting, like a different animal entirely from the standard mass produced ones. But my parents always used to say, it cost them about 20$/lb to raise them. They thought it was worth it. I suspect I would, also.
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So far my morals have never cost me more, but that is just because I shop on autopilot. I don’t mind animal testing, but I work in research and development for medicines so that is probably why.
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I agree with you regarding medical testing. Better to test on animals to save human lives than to test on poorer humans as some seem to suggest. Also, being a current city dweller I really hate rats (all rodents) and don’t have a problem killing them when necessary.
I suppose the same would be true too for cosmetic testing. Better to find out if lipstick causes cancer in rats than in humans. Although, I typically don’t wear lipstick . . .
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I don’t mind animal testing, but I *do* mind the child labor in the mica mines that make so much of our makeup shiny.
It has cut down on my random buying of lip gloss by quite a bit. Not 100%, I have social pressures, but the mindless “ooh i like that!” buys are pretty much gone.
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We’ve taken the plunge into buying cruelty-free/organic/environmentally-friendly products. We still have a long way to go, but we’re making strides.
Here’s my advice: Ease into it. Buy cage-free eggs one week, then look for a cruelty-free cosmetic or beauty aid the next week. Make one small switch at a time, enabling your budget to adjust to the change.
If you typically buy the cheapest of the cheap when grocery-shopping, it might be hard to adjust if you suddenly start doing all of your shopping at Whole Foods or a farmers market. You might get discouraged and give up easily (ex “HOW much for a bar of soap?!?”). Just make a small change every week, and you are more likely to keep those changes.
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I may be way off base in this, but I always wonder about “cruelty free” claims. Corporations/marketers spend their lives living on the thin edge of truth.
I honestly just don’t believe what any of them say.
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I am skeptical as well. Whole Foods has this rating system for their meat:
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/department/article/animal-welfare
I am always amazed at how little meat at a 5 rating is available. 5+? Haven’t seen it at the one by me. Maybe it is the wrong assumption, but I figure if Whole Foods (the supposedly wonderful, organic, sustainable, cruelty-free mecca) isn’t even able to provide meat at their own high rating, what is happening at the other large grocery stores? I just pass on the meat.
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Absolutely, spending in line with our morals costs us more. In our case, it’s one of the reasons that we practice frugality, so that we can afford conscious spending. We joined as CSA and get all of our organic, local veggies from that. However, we drive our vehicle 20 mintes out to the farm once a week (in summer), or twice a month (winter/spring) to pick it up. We could have chosen to pick it up at the farm rather than in town because we want to expose our child to farming life. We buy whole chickens from a friend (happy, organic) and use every bit of it. We buy eggs from my coworker, and just purchased a 20 lb box of grassfed, organic beef from a local farmer. It’s worth it to us and our food is delicious, healthy, and locally grown. Skipping the stores and going straight to the farm does help save us some money.
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I highly recommend not taking your chickens to the vet, but otherwise you might come out ahead in cost, especially if you sell your spare eggs.
One thing to watch out for would be your HOA guidelines. Our covenants for example do not allow for livestock including chickens.
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I’m surprised no one has mentioned it yet — “free-range eggs” is just a marketing term:
The U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) requires that chickens raised for their meat have access to the outside in order to receive the free-range certification. There is no requirement for access to pasture, and there may be access to only dirt or gravel. Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in the United States. Likewise, free-range egg producers have no common standard on what the term means.
So if you’re paying extra for free-range chicken eggs, you’re wasting your money. There are probably companies that sell ethically harvested chicken eggs, but the label itself is meaningless.
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Blast! This is exactly what I was afraid of.
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Vital Farms sells pasture-raised eggs. You can purchase them from Whole Foods. Or, ask at your local farmer’s market.
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So the question is WHERE are you shopping when you buy these free-range organic eggs and cruelty-free cosmetics? Wal-Mart??
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If you only have a few chickens, the expenses can be minimized. If they are free-range, you will only need a small night shelter. Chickens love your fruit/veggie/bread leftovers and scraps, so no need to buy store-bought feed. They provide you not only eggs, but pest control and great fertilizer.
I just started the oil face wash myself. I have noticed an improvement over the $9/bottle product that I had been using!
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I’m in a similar situation. I refuse to sacrifice my morals for budget. There are things more important than money. In April we co-raised ten baby chicks with our neighbors. We combined efforts, used materials we had already for the coop, and now pay $10/month (after $70 in initial cost of chicks/start up supplies) for the joy of pet chickens AND delicious eggs on top of that. It doesn’t get better than that. As for time, it’s lovely to stroll out to the coop with kitchen scraps, feed the chickens, compost, and garden at the same time.
On another note, I make all my toiletries, and cleaning products. It saves us money AND I feel better about it.
One thing that ends up costing more, but not in the long run, is buying all our food local, in season and organic. But the way we feel combined with lowered medical costs does not make that a hard decision!
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It’s all good and well to want to do this type of thing. But when your budget just can’t make the stretch, it’s hard to read posts like this that make one feel bad about oneself for not being able to afford to be a “good moral person”.
I am lucky to live in a state where all this is possible – for a price. If I wanted, I could have fresh farm milk every day (at a cost of around $37 a month). I could have farm raised, grass fed beef, lamb, and pork from down the road – at a cost of around $1,200-$1,400 for the year – that would give me about 2 servings-3 servings of each type every month. I could go pick out a chicken and get the eggs, then the bird, at a cost of $10-12 a month for the eggs and $240 a year for the chicken. I could get farm fresh veggies (local or organic and local) for $30-50 a week. I could bike everywhere – at a cost of 3-4 hours of my time each day (at LEAST – probably more like 5-6 since I work further out than DH does). I could pay another 4 cents per kwH and get wind power instead. I could pay out $3-4k for solar panels.
I can go on, but you get the point – with money, I live in a place that makes it really easy to be “a good moral person”. But I don’t have that money, my family is trying to finish advanced degrees instead, to better our future prospects.
So please, while it is possible, it is expensive, don’t make us poorer folks out to be “not good moral people” when we can’t afford to be.
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You raise good points. I remember reading somewhere (sorry, don’t have the source) about how poor people generally have much worse diets because it’s cheaper to buy processed foods through the discount grocery stores than to buy healthier products that simply cost more. Then they get sneered at for eating crap that makes them fat.
The infrastructure of the food industry is so entrenched that what it mass-produces is cheaper than food bought outside of it.
I agree with those who say just make one small change, do what you can and don’t worry about what you can’t. A “good moral person” IMHO is about being aware of what choices one is making and why, and sometimes it’s accepting that one needs to make a choice that stays within budget – at this time. What isn’t possible now may become possible later.
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I also think you need to consider where you are in your financial life. I don’t look down at people or think they ar immoral for going for the bottom line…supporting and bettering your family is also a moral issue. When people’s financial situations improve, money can affords us the opportunity to use it as power to support the things we feel are important.
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I love this article because I’m the exact same way. I hate to think of the chickens all crowded up, fed a bunch of garbage, and never seeing sunlight. Not just chickens. I like to shop at Whole Foods, even though it’s more expensive, not just because the food is healthier, but also because they ensure that the animals are treated humanely, and that the fish are farmed/caught sustainably.
I also like this article because it reminds us that our dollars are votes. Whenever we buy something, we are voting for that business to exist. That’s why the free market is economic democracy. Though I don’t always vote with my morals (I hate that I buy TVs, hockey tickets, alcohol, etc.), I try to be aware of what I’m voting for with every purchase.
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In order to honestly answer whether your morals cost more, don’t forget about all the government subsidies, environmental costs, and other less-obvious costs. Yes, my grass-fed beef costs more than the stuff at Safeway, but part of that’s due to government subsidies, heavy use of antibiotics, and poor living conditions, which I pay for in other ways.
I find that in some ways, my morals are actually cheaper. Because it’s so hard to figure out where something came from, it’s an easy excuse to not buy something.
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This is such a great comment. Government subsidies are a one of the main reasons why the US is in such terrible health. And yes, eating healthy will keep you healthy longer, contributing to both your enjoyment of life and your wallet.
http://www.healthynwealthy.org/2012/08/why-are-we-so-fat.html
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I explored the fancy free-range-local-organic eggs; even at $4-6/dozen they are a cheap source of quality protein. They taste lovely. But mostly I eat eggs hard-boiled – super easy to take to work or anywhere – and the fancy eggs were a pain; extremely difficult to peel, there were some other issues I can’t remember. So I went back to the $2-3/dozen grocery store ‘free range’ whatever that means eggs… a decent compromise, I feel.
It’s all about balance.
(An apt post for equinox weekend!
)
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Hard boiled eggs peel much better if they are not from fresh eggs. Store bought eggs are often several days old before they are purchased, if you let the farm fresh eggs sit for several days they would be easier to peel after boiling.
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It all boils down to what we value.
For some, the ethical implications of buying mass produced, immoral products is more painful than spending more money for a different source.
For those that can’t afford to do this, (or choose not to), there are so many other ways you can combat things you find immoral. With your time, talents, resources, etc.
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If I had my own home with a yard, I would have chickens. I rarely buy eggs since I have a few friends who has their own chickens and sometimes gives me their eggs. Its hard to go back to store purchased (even so-called range or organic) once you’ve had the real deal. There is a difference between free range, organic and pastured. I prefer the latter.
In terms of my “morals” when it comes to shopping, I honestly don’t think much about morals unless its in my face. I do buy grass fed, organic, local, wild (as opposed to farmed sea food) and so on but I’m think about my health first and everything else is secondary.
When it comes to cosmetics, most things I purchase by default are cruelty free, but I have to double check some the makeup brands I use.
When I budget, I take the cost of all of those things into consideration. If I can afford something I will go without until I can.
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You may want to check the Monterey Bay seafood watch when purchasing seafood. Depending on the type of fish, sometimes the farm raised seafood is the better alternative.
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/download.aspx
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Thanks for the heads up!
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I became a “chicken farmer” last year when I decided to get into square foot gardening. The grasshoppers are bad where I live in the summer, so I bought a few chickens and guinneas at the farm store. Then 8 of my neighbor’s guinneas showed up one day and didn’t leave. I voluntold my husband to build a coop. Unfortunately, he took his sweet time, and the chickens spent the year in our fenced in backyard. We have 2 left from the original flock because some would fly out of the fence at night. Most were killed by coyotes or other animals, and our weiner dog got two of them. I now have 9 guinneas, 7 hens, one rooster, and two ducks. We lost a hen yesterday to a coyote, and the rooster is missing his tail feathers. We installed a solar automatic door opener, and it was opening too early in the morning. I think anyone could do a small setup in their own backyard as long as their pets would leave the birds alone, you have secure fencing, and the winters aren’t too harsh. One could build a simple wind break and use 5 gal buckets for nests. It doesn’t really require the investment many think it does. However, I found in my rural area that security was paramount to keeping my flock. My kids love having the animals around. The fresh eggs are just bonus. Oh, I rarely wear makeup because my skin looks better without it, and I use an SPF 15 moisturizer day and night.
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GUINEAS!!!! :squeals: Man, this thread is making me nostalgic. Time to bust out the Murray MacMurray catalog…
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Kauai has been overrun with chickens since Hurricane Iniki hit in 1992. We love vacationing there and renting a home near the beach. But, the roosters crow all through the night and they’re everywhere. It has made us reluctant to return because we don’t feel very rested after a visit.
If you do start a chicken coop, make sure to get advice on keeping noise down. I assume at least one rooster is desirable, but maybe that’s not the case.
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Although I didn’t read every comment word for word, I don’t remember seeing anyone mention that more responsibly manufactured foods and cleaning products might be better for one’s health? Before everyone starts screaming that organic doesn’t mean more nutritious (yes, I read that study too; even though it was just a meta study) I’m not taking about nutrition, I’m talking about toxicity. For me, the question isn’t why organic, but why not, given the choice. Yes, I spend a little more, but I can easily rationalize that by how little I spend on medical bills, as becoming more conscious of what I eat, breathe and put on my body has resulted in my making better choices all around, resulting in fewer trips to the doctor and fewer medications.
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I would argue that not using pesticides and using “organic” fertilizers might actually be bad for you. Without pesticides the food is more likely to have bugs (which I hate in my food) and natural fertilizers might be more likely to spread bacteria such as e-coli, botulism, etc. Also refusing to use anti-biotics in animals might lead to slaughter of unhealthy animals (rather than treating things like mastitis in milk cows). I’m not arguing that these risks outweigh the benefits, but I am trying to say that there are risks.
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Hi Jen2,
I was really torn on whether or not to reply to this, but I decided to point out a few things. First, while you may hate bugs (many do), they’re not inherently bad for you. Many societies eat bugs and they are a great source of protein. Yes, cockroaches are bad, but grasshoppers, crickets, and caterpillars usually aren’t. Second, the antibiotics that traditionally-raised cattle get are not to treat disease – they’re to prevent them. The cattle is fed a non-natural diet which has a tendency to disrupt the cow’s natural digestion and cause problems. Therefore, the cattle get antibiotics pre-emptively; it has nothing to do with treating a sick animal.
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Regarding cosmetics, here are some great sites if you wish to lookup favorite products or find new ones:
http://www.leapingbunny.org/
http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/
I do wear makeup- but I try to find afforable and responsible products that do double-duty. IE, a tinted moisturizer with SPF. Lip color that doubles as cheek color (although I rarely wear either).
Whenever possible I try to “vote with my dollar” but it does take some extra work!
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@janice
I stated the reason we so it is for our own health. The way we feel and the reduced medical costs are worth way more than saving the money. We’ll easily cut corners on other budget categories to afford the food/products that nourish our bodies.
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I don’t like chickens. I like eating chicken, but don’t care so much about the birds themselves.
I do feel guilty when eating pig, as I understand they are smarter than many dogs. But bacon tastes so good.
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What a silly question.
“Do your Morals Cost You More?”
If you care so much (5x more) about chickens being crammed together in a cage, I would think you would care enough not to eat eggs at all.
Cruel eggs: $1.04
Semi-cruel eggs: $5
NO EGGS: $0
It’s pretty clear that morals don’t have to cost you a cent. If it’s too expensive for you, adjust it.
I’m not a vegan/vegetarian. I love delicious eggs. The cruel ones happen to cost $2.50 per dozen where I live.
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but then you eat something else, and it has its own ethical issues, whatever it is.
Like rice causes more greenhouse gas emissions than dryland crops like barley. But barley isn’t as popular so it’s grown on smaller, less efficient farms and then shipped farther.
There’s not just one axis for moral decisionmaking, everything’s a tradeoff. There’s cost, because what if you buy the cheaper one and do something good with the money? There’s human effects – fair trade cocoa powder, or the mix my neighbor sells from her startup business? There’s the effects on animals, workers, your own health…trying to apply your abstract morals to every situation, including buying habits, is hard. That’s why “how to make decisions from our point of view” is a major part of most religious communities.
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I like this article because it give an example how while, yes, sometimes sticking with your morals does cost more, there are often cheaper alternatives and other solutions to buying products that you find immoral, if you’re willing to look.
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I would also recommend Make the Bread, Buy the Butter: What You Should (and Shouldn’t!) Cook from Scratch to Save Time and Money by Jennifer Reese. It is part cook book part memoir and fun to read. She has a great chapter on raising chickens for the eggs and attempting to do the same with goats for the milk and she gives loads of details on the costs associated.
I think “morals costing more” can go either way. I have a lot of friends with land who have their own chickens and plant and tend their own gardens with their own organic veggies and they all admit that in the end, it is not so much a cost savings as a desire to have less toxins in their bodies so yes, not actual $$ savings in the beginning but potential for less medical issues down the road? We might never know of course.
I hate Whole Foods. Ok, I love it, but it is a hate love. The ones I have been to are all so badly designed so there is no room to pass anyone in the aisles and they are crowded and everyone is rude and miserable and I end up wanting to punch someone.
Plus of course, it is damned expensive.
That said, I found that I can buy large bottles of their generic brand unscented shampoo/conditioner and soaps for $2/bottle. They are free of the parabens and fragrances, etc so if I just go in there for those things, it becomes a bargain.
I agree with the folks who say do your best, whatever that means to you, to go with your morals. I joined a CSA for the first time this year. It is not organic but it is local, the farm has been in business for over 100 years, and they practice Integrated Pest Management (IPM) to control insect pests and diseases on crops by combining several complimentary strategies such as sanitation, soil enrichment, variety selection, pest detection, and biological controls.
The cost for a week’s worth of fruits and veggies through this has been about $12 and it tastes good and is grown the next town over. I feel like it was a good financial and moral decision for me. Some friends thought it was a poor choice because it is not explicitly organic.
You do what you can do and you make the decisions that can exist within your moral compass and finances.
Oh and there is no way I will ever stop coloring my hair! I went gray at 35 (I am 42 now) so every 6 weeks I have a date with my coupon discounted box of home hair dying kit – you will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!
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Meredith,
I’m definitely going to check out that book! Thanks for the recommendation!
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I would say morals can definitely cost you. Definitely with clothing. Women often have to go out of their way to find clothes that aren’t too revealing or bathing suits that don’t show off too much. It gets tough with clothing.
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Yes. But overall I think it is worth it. To support values you believe in with financial dollars.
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You are so lucky that you are able to have a chicken coop and chickens. I’ve always wanted chickens, but never have been able to afford a place of my own where I’d be allowed to own chickens.
I don’t think cost is an issue, where living creatures are concerned. The joy that soft, clucking pet chickens can give you far outweigh the costs, in my opinion (if you have the money to have a place for them)
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Makes me sneeze and itch to even think about it! Better have a backup plan if someone develops allergies.
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I promise, I won’t let the chickens sleep in the bed with anyone, or get up onto the couch. ;P
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This is such a wonderful post! I need to start saving money!These are wonderful suggestions that we all women should take under consideration. In fact, replacing your astringent for vinegar and lemon is actually very beneficial for your skin. This method will definitely save you money and keep you toxic free.
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After 5 minutes on the internet I have found that Burt’s Bees is owned by Clorox, Tom’s of Maine is owned by Colgate-Palmolive, and Yes to Carrots doesn’t list any of their active ingredients (which hints that they are the same as the ones in traditional i.e. non-organic products). And all of the “all-natural” ingredients in Alba Botanica products do not contribute to either the texture or function of the product, again meaning that non of the active ingredients are organic/all-natural. I couldn’t find anything regarding whether they animal test. But frankly every product on the market today is based on chemistries that were tested on animals at one time or other, whether the company directly funded that testing or not.
I am willing to pay more for local. But I’ve mostly given up on paying more for organic anything. I buy produce at farmers markets (both local and organic). But any commercial product I buy I like to research first.
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Not only are they owned by Palmolive, Tom’s switched to plastic tubes (from metal, which I preferred and recycled) and stopped making my favorite flavor.
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I actually have a bottle of Yes to Carrots shampoo here, which I bought for completely *other* reasons, given that I didn’t realize it’s normally considered better/more organic/more healthful/whichever. It’s sold in the regular aisle of my local Shopper’s.
The ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Sodium Coco-Sulfate, Decyl Glucoside, Lauryl Glucoside, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Mris Limus (Dead Sea Silt) Extract, Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Juice, Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Seed Oil, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Simmondsia Pepo (Pumpkin) Fruit Extract, Ipomoea Batatas (Sweet Potato) Extract, Cucumis Melo (Melon) Fruit Extract, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Extract, Punica Granatum Extract, Xanthan Gum, Citric Acid, Fragrance (Parfum), Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate.
[Please note that I don’t have a strange capitalization fetish, I just retyped it as it was printed on the bottle)
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Katelyn,
I’m really interested in your perspective. I like that you’re looking for “triple-threat” products: local, organic and cruelty-free. I absolutely support this and I’ll take any tips you have on finding these items (farmers’ markets, perhaps?) What products, branded or homemade, do you use?
These companies that I listed are cruelty-free, as defined by PETA (which, I know, comes with its own baggage), certainly not local and a mixed bag on organic. http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/companiesdonttest.pdf
Please share. What are your thoughts on buying from a subsidiary of a large corporation, like Clorox? Do we: a) boycott their products until they have more sustainable practices. B) buy them anyway, they’re ubiquitous and cheap. Or c) Can we, as consumers, speak to the business model by showing a demand for products like Burt’s Bees and hope to eventually shift the market?
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Day moisturizer? Night moisturizer? I didn’t know there was a difference. I am not even sure what toner is? I guess I am not very girlie.
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Timely question, although I’m going to take it in a slightly different direction. Over the last 3 months, I’ve been finalizing my divorce settlement finances, gotten a new job, and moved. The move meant that some of the settlement paperwork just didn’t get done in a timely manner — something arrived that I was supposed to mail back if I didn’t want to incur a tax penalty, and I didn’t. It was a combination of not quite understanding a complicated legal document and being a little disorganized in transition.
After my move, a check arrived at my old address (despite address forwarding), and my ex-roommate eventually sent it on to me. This was the first that I actually realized that I’d missed a deadline and so had lost $17K to taxes.
My family suggests I should contact the folks who cut that check and ask them to take the check back and give me an extension on that deadline I missed, all because of confusion around the move. That retirement account stays with their company, I don’t lose the money to the govenment — everyone should be happy.
My moral dilemma is that I do feel like I made a mistake and the tax penalty is just the cost of that, and I don’t think I have a good argument to make. It feels like fudging the truth, but maybe it’s no more than just making my case. But I legitimately don’t know what the right thing to do is in this case. Thus my morals might cost me a rather significant chunk of change.
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The government wants you to save for retirement more than it wants you to take a tax penalty. Seriously. The SSA spends tons of money researching how to get people to save more in their retirement accounts.
Make your case and everyone will be better off.
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