Ask the Readers: If parents are paying for college, are any majors off limits?
Published on - September 28th, 2012 (by Ellen Cannon) This is a guest post from Jacqueline Whiton, who self-financed her undergraduate education and MBA. She is interested in personal finance and is saving to fund her three teenagers’ anticipated college expenses.
After saving since your child was in preschool, you celebrate euphorically when your son or daughter is accepted to the college of his or her choice. You’d always imagined that your math whiz would become a chief financial officer (CFO), but are surprised when Junior says, “I’m leaning toward majoring in history.”
My friend Karen describes a similar scenario:
Our daughter worked hard throughout high school, earning nearly straight A’s and assuming leadership positions in sports and clubs. Her passion for and success in speech and debate tournaments seemed to position her well for a career as an attorney.
Now that she has been accepted to college, she says she really wants to major in film studies with a goal to be involved in making movies. We are worried that this is a lot like wanting to become a rock star: a few people make a lot of money but there are many more struggling artists who barely get by.
My husband and I have worked hard to save for our daughter’s education so that she should not have to take out much in student loans if she completes her degree in four years. But, we hadn’t anticipated that our hard-earned dollars might go to pay for a course of study that has questionable financial prospects.
We are torn about whether to pay for her to study anything that she wants, or to withhold or limit our financial support if she insists on majoring in something we feel is frivolous.
If we “hold our nose” and write the checks, we risk wasting a lot of money on a degree that may not help our daughter launch a solid career. On the other hand, if she studies something she truly loves, she may ultimately become a success in her chosen field.
We are considering holding back some of the funds in her 529 plan, possibly rolling it over to one of her younger siblings. This is leading to conflict between us that I wish we could avoid at what should be an exciting time in her life.
What should Karen do?
It is certainly reasonable to guide a young adult toward a practical career when you are paying the bulk of the bill. New college graduates face a challenging employment landscape and should do whatever they can to increase their chances of finding productive work once they complete their degrees.
Parents do not “owe” their offspring a free college education, but those who have saved for college often understandably want to help their kids avoid as much debt as possible, and savings in 529 plans must be used for educational expenses to avoid tax penalties.
Karen’s first option, paying the bills regardless of her child’s concentration in college, preserves the right to say, “I told you so,” but should only be embraced if she believes that there is a way to turn just about any subject into a viable career.
If she’s scrimped and saved for years and honestly feels that her daughter is dumping money down the drain, there is no reason to passively accept that fate. Karen could explain her concerns about the choice of major and insist that her daughter augment her education with coursework that Karen feels is appropriate. She might offer to pay for tuition, books, fees and living expenses in proportion to the practical courses studied each semester. The student would be expected to work and/or borrow to cover the proportion of expenses related to studies disapproved by Karen.
Ideally, Karen and her daughter will come to an agreement on a major that Karen doesn’t mind financing. Whether that involves her daughter convincing her mother of the value of a film studies major, or both parties agreeing on some other course of study, doesn’t matter.
How to think about choosing a major
Karen should outline a list of steps her daughter can take to convince her that a film studies major is reasonable, and explain that she will pay only as much as her conscience allows if she remains unconvinced. Potential requirements for her daughter could be:
- Review the Occupational Handbook at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and document the mean annual wage for people in her desired field, as well as the employment outlook for her intended profession.
- Ask her college to put her in touch with recent graduates in the same major and contact former students to find out about their post-college experience. Have they found work? Are they pleased with the pay and work environment? How optimistic are they about their career prospects? Is further education likely to be required?
- Contact the college’s placement center or work with professors to identify relevant internship opportunities (even if unpaid) that may be available to students and approach companies or organizations to learn details of those internships.
- Participate in volunteer work that allows her to learn more about working in the film industry and build skills at the same time.
Karen should commit to keeping an open mind about the value of her daughter’s proposed degree and insist that her daughter also keep an open mind. If it turns out there are more opportunities than she imagined available to film studies majors, Karen can pay as much as she can comfortably afford to support that degree pursuit. But, if her daughter discovers that the post-college road is bleak for those who majored in film studies, or similar subject, it would be wise to select a major with brighter prospects. It’s always possible to take a few film studies courses for fun while concentrating elsewhere.
What would you do? Would you let your child choose any major?
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Ask the Readers, Career, Education, Kids
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
I was a humantities major that got accepted by a top 15 law school with a full tuition merit based scholarship. Obviously these parents and whoever wrote this article didn’t do any research on what is required to get into law school. Your undergraduate major doesn’t have to be a pre-law type of major, and in many instances that can be a negative. Besides look into what it takes to make a good living as an attorney. If you aren’t going to a top tier law school, and even then, it can be a rough career.
loading....
Why is everyone talking about law school? I don’t think the original post even mentioned it. (Though I agree that law school is not a good idea unless you (a) actually want to be a lawyer, and (b) have the credentials to get you into a school where that’s a likely outcome.)
loading....
“Her passion for and success in speech and debate tournaments seemed to position her well for a career as an attorney.”
loading....
Oh, missed that; yeah, that is classic and not going to turn out well for anyone.
loading....
Basically you’re saying that you want to choose your daughter’s career.
Do you think that’s the right thing to do? If she ends up loving what you’ve forced on her, that would be great.
If she doesn’t love it, it will be your fault forever.
If she doesn’t get a job in *your* chosen field, will you be supporting her, since it was your choice?
Pleeeeease, read the links about law school. NO ONE should be going to law school without a lot of talking to working lawyers and honestly, if you’re not in a top tier school OR in the best school in your chosen region, it’s not worth the money).
If you had always told her that the money for college wasn’t for college but for a specified list of classes or majors, that might be different. And I have no problem with requiring a GPA or certain grades for the payments.
I have no problem with her knowing your concerns about her future or providing her with reading material that supports your points.
But you really shouldn’t change the rules on her now.
loading....
I’m paying for my daughter’s college, but I wouldn’t dream of telling her she can’t choose a particular major. College is about her life choices, not mine. I’m just giving her the gift of choice without the expense.
Regardless of the major, whatever she’s doing in 20 years may not even be related. I’ve changed career paths several times. My wife has been a Vetinarian, a lab tech, ICU tech, and is currently an attorney. College gives you the ability to change and adapt, it’s not necessarily the determining factor in your career.
loading....
I was in a nearly identical situation as Karen’s daughter. Straight A’s in high school and lots of scholarships, but not all of my tuition was covered. I was the first in my family to go to college, and my parents were set on me going into the sciences. Two quarters in I realized I was very unhappy and wanted to pursue a fine arts degree instead. My parents gave me an ultimatum and cut me off financially, but it did not deter me from pursuing what I loved. I worked part time and scrimped and put myself through a BFA program. I did well enough that I got offered a full ride into a Master’s design program, and I now have a successful design career and love what I do every single day.
Back as a young adult struggling with big life decisions, my parents’ support would have meant the world to me. Even more than 15 years later I still have a LOT of resentment that they could have helped me, but refused. Yes, I did it myself, but because I had to work so much I missed out on a lot of the great “college experiences” that my friends got to have. I literally worked those years away.
Karen should choose her actions wisely, as some things are more important than money.
loading....
I feel like I’m missing something. The parent wants the kid to be an attorney – if the kid followed this path, she’d have to go to law school anyways, so it really doesn’t matter all THAT much what she majors in for undergrad, just so long that she has a reasonably literate background.
Also, law school is a HUGE investment (my boyfriend is still paying off his loans 15+ years after graduation – sigh….) and really not something to be jumped into unless the kid really WANTS to be a lawyer.
(Note: I don’t necessarily agree that the parent should use the $ to control the kid’s degree….but mom seems to be jumping ahead 7 years here.)
loading....
Any major today can be precarious because of the current job market. That being said, I think it is important for a young adult to major in something they really want to do. Many people wind up in practical careers then throw in the towel a few years later to start all over again. A good compromise might be taking a major that complements her desire to work in the film industry then take a minor in film.
loading....
I paid for my degree in technical theatre right out of high school. I got a good job and worked in the industry for 5 years because of experience gained in school and professional connections from interships and paid work.
When I wanted to change jobs (to make enough to support a family) I couldn’t get an interview in the IT/Telcom world because I didn’t have a technical degree. I worked hard going to school part time to get a BS in IT and paid for a lot of it with tuition reinbursement from work and savings. Once I had the degree my professional connections and experience were enough to finally get me an interview and a job.
At least for me – gone are the days of “any degree will do”. Employers wanted relevant experience and a relevant degree even for entry level jobs.
loading....
I’m going to skip reading all 60+ or so replies to this topic and just chime in to say that “film studies” is a load of nonsense that doesn’t prepare anyone for any kind of “industry.” Just to dispel any myths about that.
Maybe with luck and all the right connections a “film studies” major can end as a festival curator, but any major with the word “studies” in it is going to be a lot of talk and no show. I know a bunch of “films studies” people, and none of them make movies or even write about them. To work in the industry you gotta learn production, not theory.
A good place for someone young to get involved in the “industry” is to attend a community college with a film crew program. You get hands-on training and work experience and a chance to join a union, and then you have the choice to maybe later go to some film and tv school if you want something out of it. But “film studies” is a bunch of useless theory that mostly prepares you to flip pancakes at IHOP upon graduation and/or go into grad school for 10 years so you can become an adjunct for life.
A second but maybe more expensive alternative is to attend a real film school with industry connections (UCLA, USC, etc) and give it a go. That is if she can get in, because it’s hugely competitive. There are smaller schools in California that don’t have the big names and aren’t looking for the next Martin Scorsese but will prepare you to work in the industry somewhere, like CalArts, and there are good programs elsewhere like UTexas. There are also a few small liberal arts colleges with nice film programs like Hampshire College. But all of these are more like art school– you learn to MAKE things, not to quote French theorists (thought there may be required theory courses to keep the academics employed).
I have to say though, my parents refused to pay for what I wanted to study, and I went and did it anyway after graduation, but it cost me a lot of sorrow and wasted years and missed opportunities. The thing is you can’t predict the future or make people do anything they don’t want to do (unless they have no spine, in which case they are a lost cause). So best wishes, whatever happens.
loading....
Oh, and another thing…
If you refuse to pay for college, not only will you be damaging your relationship with her, but you could end up either forcing her to delay her education until she’s 25 or so, or she could end up taking on a mountain of debt. Why? Because when colleges look at financial aid decisions, they factor in the parents’ assets, even if the parent isn’t going to pay. At least that’s the way it worked when I was in school. So she won’t be able to get any financial aid for herself based on her assets alone until she’s 25, which is when the colleges stop considering the parents’ assets.
loading....
REALLY??????? Sure let’s force another generation into the “get a job/career that pays well” and be miserable for the rest of your life! I am so amazed at how narrow minded people can be when it comes to what defines an “acceptable” career choice! We can’t all be doctors and attorneys!!! All we can do as parents is to give direction, but ultimately our children have to make their own decisions whether we agree with them or not. Didn’t you ever get sick of someone telling you how to live yours???
loading....
If that person was paying for me, then they have some stock in it. My parents never told me what to do, but then they didn’t pay for it either. If our kids want to follow a career path we believe is foolish, God love ‘em, but we don’t have to throw our hard earned money down their path. There are cheap, reasonable alternatives for nearly every career path.
We would support our kid while he followed his passions, but that doesn’t mean we would directly fund it. If my child really wanted to be a film director, he’d find a way. And we’d give him a roof over his head and food in his belly for a set time frame, say five years. That’s plenty of support.
loading....
I had a 100% scholarship (so a little bit different than parents footing the bill), but my parents paid everything else. I REALLY wish my parents had pushed me to look at careers that paid well and that were stable. As a college student, it’s hard to think past college or to even know what careers are out there. I LOVED math, but was afraid of making B’s or C’s, so I stuck to easier subjects and now I really regret it. Daily I wish I was a financial planner or a budget analyst. Kids are just too idealistic.
loading....
With my children my wife and my plan is to let them major in whatever they want as long as they also have a major that is ‘marketable’. For example, if my daughter wants to study music she also needs to study something like chemistry.
loading....
Many scientists are also musicians. That is a good mix!
loading....
It hurts my head to read this article and many of the related comments. Given all we know about colleges, debt and the job market….couple that with the fact this is a finance/money blog….I think many people have lost their minds today.
loading....
Next Wednesday marks my 29th year practicing law. My undergraduate major? Music. I entered law school way better prepared than many of my peers as my area of study gave me a huge advantage – discipline. I have hated practicing law, but for a number of reasons, got stuck – and I’ve had a successful career by any measure. My advice: let your daughter follow her dream, and encourage her to keep following it. You don’t want her to end up like I did. There is no correlation between the times I had the most money, and the times I was the happiest – none.
loading....
I should probably read through the comments before adding my own, but I don’t have time at this moment and I do have a strong opinion on this topic. Our son will (hopefully) have his college education covered by an employee tuition remission plan, and it is his one shot to get a college education without incurring debt (or jockeying for a scholarship or grants or taking 12+ years paying as you go).
We have told him up front that while he is free to do a double major or get a minor in a field he loves, the primary major must be something where he stands a reasonable chance of becoming gainfully employed. His passions are for the arts (especially acting), although he also likes science and engineering. We’ve discussed his exploring something like a primary major in video game design with a minor in the arts – some kind of good and workable combination.
I have also explained to him something I learned through GRS and MMM: that if he majors in something employable that he doesn’t mind/can enjoy but isn’t the #1 passion and live modestly and put a lot of his salary into savings, in 10-20 years after graduating, he will be able to retire early and THEN he can explore all the career options he’d like to do that won’t make (much) money. I saw the light bulb go on when I mentioned this, so there’s hope.
We have also said that, because of the tuition benefit, we want him to at least try college since this is the one shot without debt, but otherwise his options are to move to Hollywood and do the struggling actor routine, go to a community college to learn to operate factory machinery for a skilled labor job, get a job at a university and work his way through night school, or resign himself to a “career” with Target or Burger King. (He has already decided he’d die in an office, and he’s quirky enough that we agree with him.)
Right now it looks like he’ll do the double major or major/minor; DS has said he believes it is fair of us to make covering his college costs conditional because “you have always looked out for my best interests and anything you’ve wanted for me has been to help me succeed in life so I trust your judgment.”
(Did I mention he’s a really fantastic kid?)
loading....
You have to be careful here to figure out your boundaries. When my children reached college age I realized that the decisions they were making were not the last decisions of their childhood (over which I had control) but the first decisions of their adulthood. They weren’t really cognizant of this themselves and still looked to me to make the choices.
So what I did was give them parameters. I told them how much I was willing to pay for their college, and left it up to them what college and major they wanted.
It turned out that both of my children chose schools where they had full scholarships and wrangled the price so that what we were willing to pay was more than their entire bill! So then I had to add a caveat: they still need to take out student loans, but if they get a B or better then we pay off those loans. Otherwise, it’s their bill. As I said, I was willing to pay for their education, but not to party. I wanted them to have skin in this game.
loading....
If I start by saying that I have two kids, one who majored in Jazz Performance and the other in (gasp) Film Production, and that we paid for both degrees, at least I can say I have standing to comment on this, right?!
So first of all, yes, our kids did this, and — here’s a shocker for you — they are both working. They are not rich but they have enough money to pay their rent, car insurance, etc. They are figuring out their own path in their own way. I suspect the Jazz Performance kid is going to go on to grad school in a few years, maybe even in business. But he has an awesome resume and will have a good chance at getting into the grad school of his choice.
All through the years our kids were in college, our friends were giving us a hard time about “letting” our kids do this. Many of our friends bullied their kids into engineering, accounting and other “practical” degrees. Many of these kids are currently sleeping on their parents’ couches.
Finding a job in this economy is all about being creative, writing, communicating, and all the other things that other commenters have already mentioned. It takes passion and enthusiasm to make it at all right now. Trying to make it in a career you don’t care about right now is practically impossible.
loading....
Thank you! I love this. I too majored in music performance, and my husband in political science and philosophy. We are the only adult children on either side of the family under the age of 26 that are not receiving financial assistance. He has a great job completely unrelated to his fields of study, and I work in my field and am so happy to be where we’re at.
Other kids who got “smart” degrees are primarily living at home or getting help to pay bills.
loading....
Good for you! I have a child with a talent in a creative and potentially non profitable career path. She is following her dreams with my full support. We have always encouraged her to pursue her chosen field while knowing that once she is out of school she must be able to support herself. I would never forgive myself if I had pushed her into a career that she wasn’t passionate out of practicality.
loading....
Often, people can double major without too much (or any) added cost to the degree. The amount of class difference amounts to about a semesters worth of work. Of course, i wouldnt push my (future) kids into doing something that they hate, but i would balance a “fun” major with one that could provide income.
In addition, the first two years of college are mostly basic required courses that one has to take with any major. During these two years, i would encourage my kids to seek out new classes and see what they like. My first three business classes were the more boring ever, so I got a business minor, with a major in Sociology.
loading....
I have two children. One is a mobile applications IT specialist who heads his own department in a Fortune 200 company, travels all over the country with his job and just purchased his first house at the age of 24. Other than his mortgage and student loans he is debt free. He graduated with about $15,000 of college related debt. My daughter is a senior in college studying acting and playwriting. She will have about $5000 in student loan debt when she graduates. Both followed their dreams and their passions. My son was willing to accumulate more school related debt knowing that he had a strong income potential. My daughter has maintained Dean’s list status throughout her college career and taken on many extracurricular activities to bring in more scholarship monies knowing that her income potential may or may not support higher loan payments. Their father and I paid for the first two years of college for each of them because that is what we were financially able to do. Since my daughter’s chosen career involves more financial risk, she knows that she needs to be willing to live a smaller lifestyle than her brother will live however she is able to do things that bring her joy and fulfill more than a bank account. Her dad had many of the same concerns about spending money on an arts related degree but in the end we both agreed that as long as she understood that she had to be able to be able to support herself regardless of her education and aspirations we would back her decisions. Yes, I worry more about her financial future than I do about my son’s but I will never regret encouraging my child to pursue the things that she is good at and that bring her joy. To withhold promised funds because you don’t agree with the career choice does not teach your child to take care of themselves. It teaches them to fear challenges and to avoid risks. What kind of sad little life would she have if she spent it avoiding anything that isn’t a sure thing? The young woman in the above article sounds intelligent, driven and motivated to make good choices. Just because they aren’t the same choices that her parent’s might make doesn’t mean that aren’t valid. She must know that she has to be able to take care of herself, not relying on her parents or a partner to support her after school but beyond that her career choices ought to be her own.
loading....
Why doesn’t Karen just suggest that her daughter double major in another field that might prove more lucrative? Her daughter definitely seems smart and hard-working enough to pull it off. There’s nothing wrong with having a back-up plan.
I also am hesitant to assume that majoring in a given field automatically subjects one to a life of poverty. From what I’ve observed, it’s the amount of debt one incurs, not the major, that creates a rough road. In undergraduate, I double-majored in creative writing and communication, spending lots of time doing volunteer work and interning at newspapers. I later worked part-time at a public library while in grad school earning my M.F.A. Of my friends from my M.F.A. program, all are gainfully employed. I work in public relations; another is a full-time children’s librarian; others are teachers. One is a writer AND an engineer; she double-majored in engineering and creative writing during her time as an undergraduate.
I’m concerned that Karen’s thinking is too linear. The best she can do for her daughter is help her fund her education. There will be bitterness if the money earmarked for her daughter’s college savings goes toward other siblings’ college costs. What if the sibling who majors in finance or computer engineering drops out while the daughter majoring in film studies manages to thrive? What if the child everyone thinks is pre-med secretly changes his/her major to a field of which Karen wouldn’t approve, but is too afraid to say so? What kind of family tensions would these scenarios create? Better to let her daughter forge her own path than create bitterness in the family. Instead of threatening to withhold these funds, Karen would probably be better off having a heart-to-heart with her daughter about career possibilities/outlook, double majoring in another field, etc.
loading....
I think it’s appropriate to dock the amount your willin to pay for her school. One of the huge draws of liberal arts degrees are that they’re fun! You get to be creative and have opinions and do fun things. She’s not going to go to college and decide – I’d really rather study books in a library by myself to get a technical degree. Are your other children’s educations fully funded? Is your retirement fully funded? If your daughter wants to do her ‘passion’ (I concept I find over rated) you’ll most probably end up supporting her later. Also, a little adversity at the start of a career that will be FILLED with adversity won’t hurt her. Lastly, if she completes the program and you feel she’s gone above and beyond and really DESERVED that free ride, you can help her pay her loans. Perhaps not the most efficient use of money, but there’s lessons in there. Don’t be afraid of loosing your daughter. If she can’t see the sense in your decision the bond was never what it should have been anyway.
loading....
I am pretty much like Karen’s daughter. I was a top student in high school, my parents were paying for college, then I switched from economics to English in sophomore year, and they pulled the plug financially. They were worried I would always be poor, so they wanted to teach me how difficult it was to make a dollar. I struggled to balance a rigorous courseload against working 30 hours per week at 3-4 part-time jobs to come up with tuition money. In the end, we compromised because neither of us wanted my grades to slip: I would stay an English major, but minor in something practical, while my parents would pay HALF my tuition.
In the end, I’m kind of thankful that I went through this, even though it was tough at the time. I learned things that schools don’t teach you:
1. how difficult it is to pay your bills
2. that I was choosing a lower-paying career path and the consequences of this choice
3. what I’m truly passionate about, what I will fight for
4. how to bargain, negotiate, and compromise
5. the courage and perseverance to stand by my choices, even when the consequences are difficult
I now work in book publishing and love what I do. Sometimes I hear about the exorbitant salaries of Wall Street bankers and think that I could be making that much. But it’s not enough for me to regret my choice, because I made it consciously and with my eyes open. That was the biggest gift my parents could have given me.
loading....
Great topic, fascinating discussion. I can certainly see both sides! I liked the ideas of a double major, as well as the idea of paying, on the condition that she keeps a high GPA.
loading....
We had a niece major in theater – her parents paid for all that her scholarship didn’t cover. My husband and I agreed that if that were one of our kids, fine, we’d pay for the theater major, but only on the condition that she got a teaching certificate to go along with her Bachelor’s Degree in Fine Arts.
loading....
I got a frivolous degree (Equestrian Administration) and couldn’t get a job with it. I went back to get an MBA and am now in a good position with prospects for future advancement so things turned out ok for me, but several of my fellow EQA graduates are still toiling away in two or three part-time jobs as they continue the hunt for a decent horse-related job.
My parents disapproved of my major, and I just got irritated and did it anyway, but I think if they had asked me to prove the value of it, it might have made me consider another major sooner. I have to say though, suggestion #2 about getting the college to set up a discussion with a recent graduate wouldn’t have done any good; my college advocated a 98% job placement rate for graduates who decided to continue in the field, and they could point out or get you in touch with any number of graduates who had succeeded. These numbers are rigged though: since I “chose” to go into another field, the fact that I don’t have an equestrian job doesn’t count against their 98%, even though I only chose to do something else because I couldn’t get an equestrian job. Conversely, my friend who has two part time non-equestrian jobs, but mucks stalls in exchange for reduced board for her horse is considered as being “in an equestrian position” and is counted towards their 98% success rate. Suprisingly though, she has yet to receive a call from a potential student. I sincerely doubt my alma mater is the only one that rigs the numbers this way.
loading....
Equestrian Administration?!? O_o
I think your example shows there are majors that are too narrow in their focus….
loading....
Ok, I couldn’t even get past Karen’s story to the rest of the article. *I* was a motivated young high school student who wanted to double major in film (production not studies) and creative writing. My parents funded my college education and while they put some limits on it (I had to go to a public school in state) they didn’t limit what I majored in.
Possibly as a result of this I’m one of the few people I know who never changed their majors in college. When I graduated I did so with a double major and honors.
Working in the film industry is not the easiest industry in the world, but neither is it the industry that Karen describes. Yes, her daughter will probably have to go through some unpaid internships, unlike if she had majored in something like accounting where she could’ve scored paid ones. But it is perfectly possible to earn a living working in film.
A few things to keep in mind:
Yes there are the big film schools (UCLA, etc), but if you are savvy enough you can still figure out ways to do film production elsewhere. I went to a state school in the midwest that had a film studies program with a full slate of production classes and a state of the art computer lab where I learned editing, graphic design, and 2D and 3D animation. I was able to take advantage of the classes and the lab because a) I took as many required classes as I could as quickly as I could, so I could devote my time to learning about production even if it didn’t always count towards graduating, and b) I got a job at the media center where the lab was so that I could learn the equipment quicker/better than I would just taking the classes and so I could have an in to score extra time in the lab and check out the equipment if other students weren’t using it for class. My college also has a pretty decent alumni program that is helpful for making that first connection for an internship. I’ve talked to other people who went to school at similar places and most of them have some kind of alumni network as well, simply because everyone who’s tried to get their foot in the door knows how important that first connection can be.
What Karen also doesn’t realize is that studying film production doesn’t just prepare you for working on movies, it prepares you for working on commercials, television shows, and other sundry corporate projects. Many production companies earn their bread and butter in commercials or corporate filmmaking, but are known for the passion projects, like webseries or films that enter the public consciousness. There are also many production adjecent jobs: at film festivals, at equipment rental houses and stages, at university media centers, etc.
This is also one industry where “freelancing” isn’t a dirty word. There are definitely full time positions at production companies, yes, but I would actually say that most people who work in film don’t work full time at a company. If this scares you off, consider this: as an entry level PA on a shoot, you will probably earn $150 / day, minimum. If you can PA on several different shoots, you can make connections with that many more people who will then call you when they have another project coming up. When you first start out if you can get a side gig and make connections with many different companies you can probably do alright. And as you get higher up the totem pole you can earn more — $225/day, $450, $700 … it depends on what jobs you’re going for, but, yeah. It takes time and effort to work your way up, but it’s not impossible.
There are some unfortunate side effects to this industry, though, that’s true. There are two main hubs in the US (three in Canada) for production: LA and NYC (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal). I interned for a summer in LA, all the while trying to convince myself that I didn’t hate LA so much that I couldn’t move there, and after college ended up moving to NYC because I really did hate LA that much. If Karen’s daughter isn’t a big city person that could be an issue. It’s also true that NYC and LA are pricey places. I’m making it work in NYC, but I’m not a high livin’ kind of gal — I’m perfectly content to make do with less. If Karen’s daughter is set on a particular lifestyle, this industry isn’t always very flexible. You will conform to it’s lifestyle, it won’t conform to yours.
That’s because this is also an industry with long hours, lots of stress, and often jobs with no benefits. A typical shoot day is 10 or 12 hours; ditto with a typical post-production day. There is often a lot of rush rush rush, having to do the impossible in no time. It’s not an industry for everyone. The highs are incredibly high, but the lows are incredibly low.
I’m still in the beginning of my career. I’ve done the unpaid internships, I’ve done freelancing, I’ve done working as a full time employee at a production company. I’ve worked my way up. My day rate is no longer $150/day. That said, there have definitely been stops and starts. The company I worked for full time was hit hard by the recession, so I’m back to freelancing. But I’ve been making it for many years now and my parents aren’t financing my lifestyle. I’ve never had to move back in with them and while they were nervous at first about the move to the big city I’ve proved to them that I can make it without debt and while growing a pocket of savings for the times when I’m stopping more than starting.
loading....
Does any of this apply to “film studies” though?
loading....
“Now that she has been accepted to college, she says she really wants to major in film studies with a goal to be involved in making movies. ”
That’s Karen’s introduction to what her daughter wants to do. So I’m assuming that her daughter wants to “make movies” i.e. work in the industry, which is what I do. I went to a school with a film studies program (albeit one with a decent array of production classes) and I made that film studies program work for me. So, yeah, it does apply.
There are film studies programs — including the one I graduated from — that include or are related to a film production major. You can certainly major in “film studies” or “communication arts” or “media studies” or whatever it is that your school chooses to call it and just write papers on Godard and Ozu. But you can also find film studies programs that either include or that you can make into a production major.
That’s the route I chose to go, clearly. I basically took over double the amount of classes I needed to graduate. Most of them were not required / didn’t fufill any requirements for graduation. And yet because I took those classes I started off my career having made several short films and animations, having written a short script, and having edited part of a feature length film. I knew FCP and the rest of Final Cut Studio, AE, Flash, Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, and the rest of Adobe Creative Suite, Maya … the list goes on. I’ve learn how to pick up new programs very quickly (a definite necessity, I’ve found). I knew the basic names and uses for sound, video, film, and lighting equipment, which was useful when I had jobs for which I needed to find or rent equipment, or just so I can help out if there’s a small shoot and they need an extra set of hands. None of this is big stuff, but it made (and makes) being able to focus on my job that much easier when I don’t have to stop and have technical stuff or basic production lingo explained to me each time. Which isn’t to say I’m an expert — there’s a lot that I don’t know. But even simple things like being able to set up a c-stand or pack a light kit or digitize a mini-dv or heck resize something in photoshop are things that I’ve seen interns fail at and they are all things I learned how to do in class at college.
Besides which, college gave me the connections — through classmates and alumni — to break into the industry. I came from a family of teachers and accountants in the midwest. My parents and I knew absolutely no one in the film industry who could advise us on what to do. So I went to school and I made it work.
loading....
I’ve been thinking about this. The film industry is evidently huge, so there must be a lot of jobs in it. But the jobs for directors are much scarcer than the jobs for foley editors, for example.
If I were a parent in this scenario, I’d rather see my child get some training in the practical aspects of filmmaking, and get her working on a set as soon as possible. If she then stays passionate about it, some years at a university would be indicated.
loading....
This hits close to home for me. I’m 4.5 years out of college. I was the daughter the OP talks about–straight As, scholarships, clubs, etc. My parents thought I could be a doctor or lawyer. As a child, I loved everything creative and artistic. In high school, my parents gently steered me towards the more “serious” subjects. But I still wanted to go to film school for college. They advised against it and told me I would never make any money with a film degree.
I believed them, disappointing as it was, and graduated magna cum laude with a degree in psychology and social behavior. While the human mind fascinated me, I knew the entire 4 years of study that I did NOT want to become a psychologist/counselor/therapist/etc. I thought maybe I could turn it into a consulting job for corporations looking to improve productivity (industrial-organizational psych). But in my first job out of college, at a highly dysfunctional medical office, I knew there was no way I wanted to deal with other people’s work drama.
So I took a job for a niche art supply company, making product videos, graphics, web pages, etc. Then I moved, and took the plunge into becoming a wedding photographer. I love it! I still feel really guilty that I’m not doing anything with my degree (although I think my studies in psych have helped in dealing with anxious brides), and my parents like to remind me that they are still paying off my loan. Even though they’re proud of me, my dad still cant understand how I am successful doing an “artsy job.”
I know GRS usually sides against “do what you love,” as being impractical and head-in-the-sky unrealistic, but I think doing what I love makes me work harder so that I will be successful. Even though I listened to my parents, in the end, I still ended up doing what I always wanted to do.
loading....
Oddly, I know someone who loved reading and would have enjoyed being an English major or something similar, but for reasons I don’t quite understand she majored in hotel management. I guess she was trying to be practical, without any pressure from her parents. She’s now in a job she hates. Of course, I think some of the reason she hates her job is she has a touch of a princess attitude – the whiny part – but I do think she may have picked the wrong major and/or school.
loading....
“I know GRS usually sides against “do what you love,” as being impractical and head-in-the-sky unrealistic,”
I thought it was the opposite.
loading....
It depends on whether what you love involves starting some kind of entrepreneurial business or freelance writing and/or consulting work. If not, you should learn to love one of those things, what are you a slave to the man and/or airy, impractical artist?
loading....
I highly recommend a double major (or at least a minor). When I started college, I intended to become a classically trained musician and get a second degree as a back-up (in case, say, I lost a hand or something). I eventually realized that I didn’t want to do the music as a college, but enjoyed it enough to get the degree. I’m now employed in the back-up major (engineering). However, in our senior year, I knew a lot of people who had only majored in music and were now realizing that they had dim job prospects or no longer wanted a career in music. They regretted not having a back-up plan.
As for paying for a degree you don’t like, if she already knows that you were intending to pay for the whole thing, you have to do it. It’s your fault you didn’t find out sooner what she was planning on majoring in – you can’t tell her after she’s already been accepted to college that you’re no longer funding her. HOWEVER, you should definitely sit down and express your concerns. She might have additional information to assuage your worries, or she might realize that you have points that she hasn’t considered. Best to go at it with the intent of helping her find the major that’s best for her than just telling her you won’t pay because you don’t like her major.
loading....
My husband works in the entertainment industry, so this is my advice:
1. Both Karen and her daughter should find out more about what exactly she wants to do in film. There are a LOT of different jobs out there (see the huge list of credits at the end of every movie), each with different skills and requirements. Does she want to be in front of the camera or behind it? On-set or post-production?
2. For the glamour jobs (acting, directing), you have a LOT of people competing for very few spots, so yes, there are a lot of struggling actors and no-name directors out there. It’s the opposite for the production and post-production jobs though: less competition, more available types of positions to choose from. I mean, how many people even know what a “digital intermediate” does?
3. A college degree isn’t required for many film jobs, so you could be wasting your tuition money. Casting directors don’t care if you graduated summa cum laude from Harvard. On the technical side, many jobs have an apprenticeship model, where you start at the bottom and pick up skills on your way up, or someone takes you under their wing (think of skilled tradespeople). For jobs like visual development or costume design, it’s helpful to go to an art or design college. Bottom line: it depends on what you want to do.
4. Working in film doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be poor. In my husband’s particular line of work in post-production, the average pay goes something like:
$10/hr for starting in the equivalent of the mailroom
$20-$25/hr for technical assistant
$30-$40/hr for working on the dailies
??? for working on the final cut of the film
I don’t know what those at the top make, but it’s well into the six figures. The top guy in this field owns his own post-production studio and makes several million. As with any career, both the reward and the competition increases as you move up, so it gets more and more difficult to make it to the next level.
loading....
+1
The one thing I’d add, however, re: the first and third points is that sometimes going to school can help you figure out what it is you want to do. I grew up in an area where there wasn’t much access/exposure to what different film jobs were, so studying film production helped me figure out which parts I liked and didn’t like. For example, studying film helped me learn that I am never going to be a Gaffer or DP. This was something I wouldn’t have known in high school, as I assumed that DP was basically just like photographer and I knew I liked photography. Whereas I thought I would hate producing because boRING. This turned out not to be true! It’s still not my dream job, but there are parts of working in production departments that I like and find fufilling.
loading....
One of my college friends was a physics major and ended up doing sound editing for movies after a successful summer internship.
loading....
Sorry, but, first of all, since when did college become vocational school? I thought it was supposed to broaden one’s general knowledge and teach you how to think. Okay, so these days, because it’s so expensive, you’re looking for a lot of bang for your buck. I get it. But why tie your expectations onto what she studies, as ultimately, that will most likely be irrelevant no matter how practical the major may seem now, tomorrow it may be oversaturated…look at the law profession which you seem to think would be such a wonderful professional move. (Not. I worked in law firms and would NEVER be a lawyer today). And like another poster said, what does it matter what she studies in undergrad school if her (your) sights are set on law school? I know you’re scared, but it sounds like she’s a good student and a good kid. Trust her. She’ll figure it out, she doesn’t want to be a “failure” any more than you do. It’s a different world out there and to think that you know better than her is a little naive aside from being beyond controlling. I’m a grandmother so I’ve been through it. Best advice I can give you is do your best and then trust them. Unless you’re going into the poorhouse and throwing away your own future by paying for her education, if you made the financial commitment, then keep it, and instead of insisting on her doing it your way, just insist on good grades and some gainful employment along the way. Have seen it happen over and over that a kid goes into college with his or her heart set on one thing and then they get a job during the summer or whenever and all of a sudden that can change everything. You tend to end up where you land, if you know what I mean.
loading....
“Sorry, but, first of all, since when did college become vocational school?”
Many would ask just the opposite: since when is college NOT a vocational school? But then “liberal arts” is a swear word around many people I know, including my parents.
loading....
I could be wrong, but I think liberal arts is something unique to the US. It seems that universities in Europe and Asia offer much more specialized programs instead of a broad base.
loading....
The “liberal arts” are of European origin. It is an ancient concept with a long pedigree. In the Enlightenment, Europeans also embraced the notion of self-cultivation (German – Bildung) and the notion of a well-rounded individual. Those that attend universities in Europe still adhere to this concept. The difference is that a larger percentage of Europeans don’t attend university at all. They learn a practical trade.
This is largely class based and your track is almost pre-determined. This might also be changing there as well. My knowledge is based on my experiences over a decade ago.
loading....
Take the money you saved for college and put it into your retirement. Your daughter should get a job and pay for college her self. That way when her “rock star” movie career doesn’t take off she will at least have some work experience and you will not have to rely on her for a comfortable retirement.
loading....
I think the suggestions offered in the article are excellent and open up a great way to have a discussion between two mature and loving adults about the best plan for the daughter’s college education. I don’t think we do a very good job of matching up kids with their majors – we do some kind of bizarre testing in High School that doesn’t tell you anything at all. I think for every major, the kids should be encouraged to be matched up with people in that field and have a period of time to observe the day to day work, maybe even as an intern, talk with people who are excelling in the field, and really get a good feel for weather or not it is a good choice for them. I know so many people who have a degree in X, but are doing W, Y, or Z instead and I think it’s because their parents didn’t encourage them to do the legwork and research BEFORE choosing their major. These days a college degree is too expensive to risk making such a big mistake with it.
loading....
I love the advice on convincing your parents that the major they are skeptical about is the right choice. When I was in college a few years ago, I had to do just that when I wanted to study abroad in Africa. I still have the email where my mom said that they do not support my decision and that I need to pick another country. Needless to say, I armed her with information about why I should go, and she was swayed.
I also studied drama in college. My parents were INCREDIBLY supportive of this decision, partly because I chose a fantastic public school that had other options should I change my mind.
I agree with Carlee above: “While the money certainly is Karen’s I think it is unfair that that gift comes with strings attached.”
It sounds like the parents have been doing the saving for college, not the student. To spring this condition on the student now, when she has been working so hard in high school to get good grades PLUS doing awesome outside activities, is unfair.
loading....
If the parents are footing the bill, they absolutely get a say in what the child majors in. Haven’t you ever heard the expression used by your parents “when you pay the bills, you can do what you want” ?
I would strongly encourage said teenager to consider a degree in something that would enable him/her to get a job that sustains their lifestyle without further education. There are many majors that can accomplish this, engineering is the big one that comes to my mind. Yes, it’s hard. But you get rewarded for your 4 years of hard work with a better-than-average salary upon entering the workforce. Any by the way – engineers can do just about anything (within reason) without much difficulty outside the realm of engineering, like going into business for example.
And to the people who posted about just getting a bachelor’s degree in anything and then getting a master’s degree in the field that you truly wanted to be in: congrats on pissing away the cost of a bachelor’s degree. This is a personal finance blog, right?
loading....
Except that an awful lot of people would either be failures as engineers or miserable at it. Neither of those is ultimately going to lead to a great job. You can’t just follow the money.
Also, you do have to get a bachelor’s degree before getting a master’s, so . . . .
loading....
My parents agreed to pay for my college. When I told my mother right before leaving for college that I wanted to study psychology she flipped her lid and told me she would NOT pay for me to get a degree in psychology because I wouldn’t be able to find a decent paying job with just a bachelors degree. I was angsty at that age and wanted to be successful with a BS in psychology just to spite her. But after 1 month of study I realized my previous view of psychology was romanticized and I didn’t like it nearly as much as I assumed I would. College is partly about figuring that kind of stuff out. My mom freaking out about my initial intended major ultimately did not influence my course of study, and if she hadn’t freaked out she would have saved a lot of unnecessary arguments and tension. For full disclosure, I changed my major every quarter for a year and a half before settling on the one I graduated with. And my parents only ended up paying for my first year, as I earned enough scholarships and paid internships to pay for the other 3.5 years (I graduated with a degree in engineering, typically a 5 year program at my school; even with frequent changes in the beginning I still managed to graduate early).
My take home message: She sounds like a smart, motivated, hard-working student. Chances are that she is capable of making a good decision regarding her course of study. And if she is going to a university, as opposed to a college, her first two years will look about the same regardless of what major she chooses. Most universities require a bunch of general education classes, meaning she will have to take math, science, english, poly sci, etc. classes before she can officially declare and be accepted to a major at the beginning of her junior year. Just like psychology, film is not an area most high schools offer classes in, and if they do its most likely just one class (and her supposed love of the subject could be due to one really charismatic teacher, not the subject matter itself). This is a good time for her to get exposure to things she hasn’t had the opportunity to see yet. Give her that chance to try it out. With that said, some people do not appreciate the value of what they have or get unless they suffer a little (read: pay for it themselves). If it looks like she is aimlessly moving from subject to subject without zeroing in on a particular field, then approach her about your concerns. But for now give her the space she needs to figure this out for herself.
loading....
In my experience, (US) colleges are the same wrt the general education requirements and when to declare a major. However, I think it’s a very good idea to consider a school that has enough breadth to give you other choices if your first pick for a major doesn’t work out. This is precisely why I went to W&M instead of applying to MIT. Even though I love math and science, I had a feeling that I might change my mind about majoring in the sciences. And I did. Had I been at MIT or a similar tech-focused school I think it would have been harder for me to switch to the social sciences
loading....
Depends on the social science. Both MIT and Caltech have awesome social science programs, including top programs in econ, linguistics, etc. Not so good in psychology unless you’re willing to do neuroscience or behavioral finance instead, but they’re not completely barren wastelands. I’ve heard that MIT also has a really good creative writing program and its students get a lot of individual attention from the profs (because there aren’t that many majors).
loading....
AT my school at least the general requirements for the individual colleges were very different. In engineering we had a list of requirements and in humanities they had a list and there wasn’t much overlap. So you could NOT easily switch between the fields once you’ were in the school. I went to a major public university with a broad variety of degrees.
loading....
Two points:
1. The major your daughter wants at 18 may not have any relation to the one she ends up with. I went to college a history/Spanish major and graduated with a Computer Science degree. She’ll spend much of her first year (or should) on core requirements which are not major specific and a couple of intro classes she’s interested in. Give her some time to see if film studies is something she loves.
2. If she’s been under the assumption that you’ll be paying for college, it’s a bit unfair to jerk the rug out from under her at the last minute. She could have been applying for scholarships or working and saving money toward her own education if she had known that your help was contingent on her choosing a degree you liked.
I do like the idea of having her do some research on the job market for film studies majors – especially talking to recent graduates. If she asks the college for some, make sure she then asks those graduates for information on (possibly less-successful) classmates, since the college is likely to find poster children to put her in touch with.
I received many (many, many) lectures on the difference between vocations and avocations from my mother. They’re the primary reason I got my degree, but now I’m in a job that I don’t particularly like. Would I be better off with mounds of debt? Objectively not, but I’m still wondering how to square my education and skills with enjoying my job.
loading....
There’s a big difference between studying film at USC or the American Film Institute versus studying it at Hayseed College in rural Indiana. If the student wants that career, she needs to go where you can actually do it. Not just where you talk about it with aging professors who never were in the biz.
As far as her parents footing the bill, I would expect more from a child who wants to walk a less conventional path to a career. The student needs to show commitment. Maybe spend a few years at community college. Start a film business. Learn editing software. Something.
This isn’t about how much you love your kid. It’s about getting real with your child’s future.
loading....
Sorry, you’re flat out wrong. While there is a huge difference between a program that only does film studies and a program that does film production, that doesn’t mean you have to go to the big name film schools to get your money’s worth. You can get a degree from schools that aren’t the famous ones and still make industry connections, learn valuable skills, and enter the industry running. In fact, given that many of the well known film schools are either private or in only a handful a states, for many people it actually makes more sense to avoid those schools. If you can’t afford private or out of state tuition, going to NYU isn’t going to give you anything a less well known film program won’t, except for debt.
I’ve talked to many people who have more experience in the industry than I do and many of them advise against the well known schools as they don’t think they teach enough real world grit, as it were.
If you want to study film production in school then go to a school with a good array of production classes, opportunities, and current equipment (both camera and computer/software). Also make sure that the school has some kind of alumni-in-the-industry network you can plug into. Dont pick a school just because it’s got a recognizable name. It’s not worth nearly as much as what might be expected.
loading....
The short answer: yes you should pay. You raised her and hopefully you have confidence in the woman she has become. Express your concerns, suggest a bookkeeping class or two But it is her call. If she is happy in her career path then she will be ahead of 75% of us. Good luck.
loading....
I say: First degree is on me. Any degrees or schooling after that is on you. If she is really determined to major in a field she loves, hopefully she will be diligent and do well and be successful. If she later realizes the film industry is not for her and she made a mistake and wants to pursue something else, then she is an adult and she can pay for another degree. I don’t see this as throwing money away because either way she’s learning: whether it be through higher education (even in a field that she doesn’t use, she should be gaining valuable overall skills), or through a life lesson (an expensive one, no doubt, but some people have to go through the experience to get the lesson).
loading....
This may come across as a stereotypical or insensitive off-topic comment, but I’m fascinated by Asian culture and would love to hear from someone of that culture who was raised by traditional parents who pushed them into engineering, computer science, etc. and if they regretted that, were miserable, etc., or if they were grateful for that (I imagine) pressure that was put on them. I always wonder what it is that makes Asians so smart and hard working and why you don’t see too many in the arts, elementary ed, teaching, social work, etc…is it their culture, their parents, natural disposition, are they happy, does that matter, etc–again, I could be operating under a false assumption, but stereotypes do sometimes have some root in truth.
loading....
I’m Irish/German and was steered toward a practical career major. I think in all cultures there are parents who want they believe is best for their children and will gladly tell them what that is.
loading....
Um, yes, your comment is coming off as stereotypical and insensitive. And I wonder if you are afflicted with Yellow Fever.
No, Asians are not any smarter than any other race. I’ve met smart Asians, average Asians, and Asians that are so incredibly dumb and vacuous if they were Caucasian and blonde they’d fit the blonde stereotype.
The only cultural differences I see from hearing my Asian friends talk about their families is that 1. East Asian cultures value education much more than American culture, and 2. immigrant families (not just Asian immigrants) worked so hard to get a financial foothold in this country that they don’t want their children to lose it. And, because they are relatively new to the US, they are unfamiliar with liberal arts and the fact that many college grads get jobs unrelated to their degrees. So they push their children to get practical degrees. They also push their children to go to high prestige universities regardless of whether they are really a good fit for their child because of #1, and the whole keeping face thing in East Asian cultures.
But, of course, those are gross generalizations, and I bet there are more Asian immigrants who don’t pressure their children to be doctors, lawyers, and engineers than you might expect. I also suspect that if went to China or Korea or Japan that you’d find a much BROADER range of attitudes than the stereotype suggests. Similar to if they come to America they might be surprised that we’re not all a bunch of gun-toting cheeseburger smelling fat cat capitalists who wear a size 40.
And of course, it isn’t just Asians who push their children to get practical degrees. I know a white woman whose family has been in America for several generations who was pressured to get a teaching degree instead of pursuing something she was more interested in, like engineering. (And in that case I think there was a good helping of gender bias as well.)
loading....
To the other commentor, it’s true – not all asians are academically inclined, that would be a steorotype. But I do fit in the category you asked about, I also happened to be an engineer. We’re a family of immigrants and my parents never pressured me into becoming a lawyer or a doctor, but doing well in school is definitely a requirement and a source of pride in my family. I remember at the end of high school, I wanted to do art in college. That was the first time I saw my dad being vehemently against something I wanted, I caved and went for the more practical stuff. Fast forward years later, I am definitely glad I am in the engineering field, it provides for a stable lifestyle and challenging work.
loading....
I fit the stereotype. My parents told me I had to major in electrical engineering starting when I was 8 and the drumbeat never stopped after that. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, “liberal arts” was a swear word in my household. Their version of “not pressuring me” is not telling me I had to go to MIT (in a weird way, they were reverse snobs when it came to colleges). In fact, since my Dad was a college professor at a technical commuter school, they told me I had to go there so I’d get free tuition and were completely against me going to the local state school I wanted to attend. I absolutely hated it, and I had to cheat my way through some labs to avoid flunking out (there, I admitted it). Since the school was a technical school, I couldn’t even switch majors because there weren’t options besides engineering. After I got my BS, I fled to law school, but even that was a cop out because that was merely an acceptable way to avoid becoming an engineer and created its own set of problems. Being a lawyer is very tough.
I managed to turn my degrees into an decent career, but I gave up my music, my own interests, and much happiness to do it. I socked away money the minute I got my first paycheck, which is why I’m semi-retired now. However, I would not recommend my path. It was a gutless way to get my parents’ approval, and I had to take anti-depressants for a while to even get through the day. No one should have to do that. Still, I try not to complain or whine because there are many who are worse off than me, and I managed to make the best of my own situation. I also appreciate my current life that much more because it took over two decades to earn it.
I recently worked with an engineer who boasted that he discouraged his 7th grade daughter from taking a theater class in school. 7th grade! I was stunned speechless and prayed that his daughter had more guts than I did at that age.
loading....
Oh, that is so sad he discouraged his daughter from taking a theater class!! It’s just one class, and she could have gained a lot of confidence from it! It takes a lot of nerve to be able to be on stage and act. Not everyone can muster the courage to do it.
loading....
So long as my daughter is self-motivated, earns good grades and has a passion for a particular career path, I would let her go for any major she wanted. Why? Because I was once that teen, and my parents said “You want our help, we get to help pick the major.”
While I’m forever grateful for their generousity, today I am a suit with a practical job. I’m contented, but not passionate. I’ll always wonder “what if?”
Life is a journey, I think I’d rather let my daughter choose her own path.
loading....
This advice is horrifyingly wrong. It’s this kind of thinking that will lead us to a world in which nothing exists but for the money we think we can wring out of it. Even the financial argument is wrong: someone has a much better chance of financial success in a field they excel at than in one they muddled through for “practical” reasons.
I would hope a parent would care more about the happiness of their child than the child’s net worth.
loading....
As a graduate from “Hayseed College” (Wright State, in Dayton, OH – I work and live in NYC now) – I’d say that you don’t just have to go to USC or NYU (in fact I don’t know a single person willing to take on an NYU film student as an intern – they can’t deal with the incompetence mingled with entitlement). If my experience proved anything, it’s that there are hidden gems of schools all over, and that if you guys do your homework you can find a great program (Wright State was incredible – my professors were all working filmmakers, with multiple Academy Award nominations). As long as she’s taking advantage of internships and focusing on her studies, it’s bound to be a fulfilling experience, and you can work in film in one way or another virtually anywhere.
loading....
+1000000000
The NYU entitlement is the worst. I’ve met cool NYU students and grads, but they were under impressed by what NYU gave them vs what they’ve gotten simply by working and learning in the industry. Whereas the people who have gone to Hayseed U, which is a goodly chunk of the industry, are often much more positive about their experiences.
loading....
Wasn’t there some sort of a scandal about an NYU professor getting fired because he flunked an actor enrolled in his class but who never attended? And the whole thing caused people to accuse NYU of granting degrees to famous actors without making them earn the degrees?
loading....
No idea! But if the famous actor was James Franco I will laugh forever.
There is a lot to recommend NYU, don’t get me wrong, and I’ve met some really amazing people in the industry who went there. But I’ve dealt with one too many entitled assholes who think that because they’re NYU students (students, not even grads!) they should be the DP not the intern.
loading....
It was James Franco!!
From his Wikipedia entry under Education:
In an interview with Showbiz411, on September 23, 2010, Franco made the erroneous public announcement that he received a “D” grade in “Acting” class at the NYU Graduate Film School. It was in fact a “Directing the Actor” class. Franco admitted to missing most of his classes that semester. A professor at New York University, José Angel Santana, alleged that Franco did not earn his grades while attending that school, stating that Franco missed over 80% of his classes and only received high marks and a degree because of his celebrity status as an actor.[116] In September 2012, Santana filed a US$20 million lawsuit against Franco for defamation.[117][118]
loading....
Here’s a Huffington Post article about it. Franco skipped 12 out of 14 classes and got a D. In my opinion, he’s lucky he didn’t get an F.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/05/james-franco-lawsuit-nyu-jose-angel-santana_n_1857878.html
loading....
Why are you trying to create more unhappy lawyers????? Your daughter is an adult – it’s nice of you to pay for her education, but stop trying to control her. And don’t force her to be unhappy for the rest of her life. A little money from you now isn’t worth her doing a job she doesn’t like for 40 years.
Also, you live in lawyer stereotype land. Being good at speech and debate doesn’t mean she should be a lawyer. Less than 2% of cases go to trial. Speech and debate play very little role in most lawyers’ lives. Get over your lawyer fantasy, and stop projecting your goals and dreams onto your child.
MOST students of 4-year colleges are not in careers related to their majors. People major in film, art, and all sorts of other things every year and they get jobs in other fields. College is to teach you to learn, to get certain basic skills, and to have the stamp of approval.
Also, most student switch majors at some point. You don’t know how this will all work out. You also don’t know it will work out better if you force her to major in something she’s not passionate about. Do you want her to be a college dropout in two yeas??
Let you daughter do something she loves. She’s way too young to have her dreams stomped on yet. And she has too many working years ahead of her to pick a career based on your demands.
loading....
I think you should let her. Nowadays, a major in anything can get you a job – and a major in an so called “sucessfull” field can get you no job. Her experiences will be more important.
I think you should still pay for it, as, if you don’t, she will still go, but in-debt herself to do it. Don’t remove the funds because of her choice of major.
loading....
Today’s economy is such that these are difficult, if not impossible things to predict.
I, being the responsible older sibling, graduated in the middle of my class from a well respected law school in 2009 and have struggled to find adequate work while many of my peers have gone unemployed. My sister graduated with a masters in theatre in 2011, moved to New York City and has had so much work that she’s been turning down jobs in her chosen creative field (costume design) in her first year!
I’m sure that even five years ago no one would have predicted that attorneys would be unemployed and there would be excess work for theatre technicians.
loading....
Tell your daughter to take a gap year, and then encourage her to work in her chosen industry. Be an unpaid intern or production assistant and get firsthand knowledge of what she’s really in for. “Making movies” sounds interesting to her, but what does she really know about it? Have her talk to people who have the job she wants to have one day, and have her ask them what it took to get where she wants. Then after she’s done some research and had some experience, if she really wants to major in film studies, pay for college with no strings attached.
loading....
Taking a gap year, where she lives separately from you and supports herself, will also help her if she decides to go back to school in something she likes and you don’t. If she’s been self-supporting and not listed as a dependent (yes, you will have to give up the tax break for this year and all subsequent years) should allow her to file for financial aid where you are not expected to contribute, so it becomes more affordable for her to go to school agaisnt your wishes.
(When I was in college, I had a lot of scholarships. My parents badgered me into going to the name school– which turned out to be a good choice, though the state school I wanted to go into might have been as well– but because of poor money management at home, I ended up paying more than half our ‘family contribution’ according to the school…
But I was lucky. I have a friend who followed his dream into engineering at a state school. His father kept him as a dependent tax-wise, but never contributed to his schooling. Friend is still struggling with debt issues years later. After 6 years of serious poverty, he made really bad financial choices once he got a good-paying job, and between his huge college debt and a few years of bad judgement– plus getting skint by his first mortgage company who changed the terms at closing– he continues to struggle to get out of debt.)
loading....
Having 2 kids in university myself and having saved for their entire lives in an education fund, I know exaclty what you are talking about. I have reinforced with my kids, though, that it is more important to follow your interests than to follow where the jobs are. I have read about so many people who did what their parents or society told them where the smart choices and it doesn’t seem to ever lead to happiness or “success”. I think if you don’t follow your heart that you will always be searching.
I also have to agree with the people that said that it is more about the degree than the major. I have a BA in Psychology but have been running my own businesses for 20 years. I have taken random courses for the specific knowledge that I needed and the Psych degree has been usefull in dealing with my friends, kids and employees.
loading....